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701212 - Lecture SB 06.01.21 and Conversation - Indore

2024-02-08T03:33:13Z

RasaRasika:

[[Category:1970 - Conversations]]
[[Category:1970 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1970 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1970-12 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Lectures - India]]
[[Category:Lectures - India, Indore]]
[[Category:Conversations - India]]
[[Category:Conversations - India, Indore]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Indore]]
[[Category:Lectures - Srimad-Bhagavatam]]
[[Category:SB Lectures - Canto 06|60121]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Bengali Snippets]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Hindi Snippets]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with both Bengali and Hindi Snippets]]
[[Category:Audio Files 60.01 to 90.00 Minutes]]
[[Category:1970 - New Audio - Released in January 2017]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Conversations - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Conversations - by Date|Conversations by Date]], [[:Category:1970 - Conversations|1970]]'''</div>
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<div class="code">701212SB-INDORE - December 12, 1970 - 87:52 Minutes</div>

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1970/701212SB-INDORE.mp3</mp3player>

'''Prabhupāda:''' In good health?

'''Haṁsadūta:''' Oh yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And for young man, the more he sleeps, he is dead. (laughter) (chuckles) He's a dead body. The child, if he overeats, if he overeats, then it is not bad for him. But anyone overeats, it is bad, specially for old man. And if child gets diarrhea, it is good for him. When a old man gets diarrhea, it is death for him.

Child gets diarrhea means whatever poisons he has acquired he gets out. His health becomes renovated. And old man, if he gets diarrhea, he loses his vitality. Chele hage banchte budho hage morte. (A young man can recover from diarrhea by passing stool but an old man gets closer to death by doing so.) These are the para . . . what is called? Common sayings? Parables?

'''Haṁsadūta:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, it is time. They are not yet ready?

'''Haṁsadūta:''' No. (pause) If we get that house, Prabhupāda . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' You can get.

'''Haṁsadūta:''' We can get?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, why not? We have appealed to the king, and he is willing. Why can you not? What is the difficulty? Now it is your business how to induce, induce him. There is chance, ninety percent chance.

'''Haṁsadūta:''' In which way will it be most helpful—in giving money personally or inducing others to give money? They will give money?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, otherwise . . .

'''Haṁsadūta:''' How much money?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ten ''lakhs''.

'''Haṁsadūta:''' Ten ''lakhs''. They can give the full amount?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, why not? This man . . . it is to be very carefully tackled. This king is going to die very soon. And as soon as the king dies, the queen's position is very precarious, almost finished. So if she becomes our president, she'll continue to keep her honor and prestige. That's a fact. She's a good lady.

We have no objection to make her the president of the local center. And she is American. She will be able to tackle these American boys and girls with motherly affection. And we shall keep her always in good respect, so that throughout her life she shall be honored all over as she was . . . as she was honored with her husband. This is a fact. So you have to convince her.

And I think if the other ladies who are . . . her daughter-in-law and granddaughters, like that . . . because her son is dead. He was the king. This old man being invalid, his son was king. And I think that middle-aged woman was there. You have marked this? She might be her daughter-in-law and the young girls might be grandchildren.

One of them, one of the daughters, girl, was very beautiful. So it appears that she comes from the royal family. ''Rāja-kanyā''. King's daughters are very beautiful. That is fabulous in India, king's daughter, ''rāja-kanyā''. In India if anybody gets a good dowry and a beautiful wife it is said, ''arddhe rajatva eka rāja-kanyā''.

Actually we have seen in . . . when Devaki was married to Vasudeva, how much dowry. (chuckles) Can anyone imagine now? So many thousands of horses, chariots, elephants, maidservants, all decorated with gold ornaments. One cannot imagine even at the present moment. Therefore they talk of "legends." But actually such dowries were given when a king's daughter was married.

Not only royal family, even in ordinary family still, those who are rich, they spend lots of money to be married, either son's marriage or daughter's. When one spends lots of money during the marriage of one's daughter and son he is considered to be really rich man. That is the proof that he is rich man.

So I can begin. Why he cannot rise, this, what is called, Muktānanda? That's all right. Where he is?

'''Devotee:''' Muktānanda, Prabhu?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. You come here. Girls may sit here. Ap log ye gadda me ayenge . . . baitho. (Please come on the mat . . . sit.) You can sit comfortably on this. (devotees come in and sit down) What is that?

'''Kauśalyā:''' Her baby. Her child. Her son.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. So we were talking of Ajāmila, a Brahmin resident of Kānyakubja, presently known as Kanauj. So:

:''kānyakubje dvijaḥ kaścid''
:''asit patir asit kaścid''
:''dāsī-patir ajāmilaḥ''
:''nāmnā naṣṭa-sadācāro''
:''dāsyaḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ''
:([[SB 6.1.21|SB 6.1.21]])

That, what is known as, at the present, prostitute, they were known as ''dāsya'', ''dāsī''.

Don't make sound, "''cut'', ''cut''." Silent.

''Dāsī'' . . . the ''kṣatriya'' kings also, when they married, with dowry many maidservants would follow the queen. That was the ''kṣatriya'' system. So Ajāmila was the illegal husband of a prostitute, ''dāsī'', ''dāsī''-''pati''. Actually one should be husband of ''dharma-pati'', religiously married, not a friend or a husband of illegal marriage. That is not allowed.

''Dāsī-patir ajāmilaḥ nāmnā . . . Ajāmila nāmnā''. His name was Ajāmila. (aside) Why the sound is in . . .? It is not possible to chant? "''Cut'', ''cut'' ''cut'', ''cut''." ''Naṣṭa-sadācāraḥ''. ''Sadācāra'' means good behavior. Why good behavior was lost? ''Dāsyaḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ'': because he was associating with a prostitute, illegal sex.

Therefore, anyone who wants to make progress in spiritual life, he must be ''sadācāra''. His behavior must be very regulated. ''Asadācārī'', unclean, non regulated, cannot make any progress. If somebody says that, "Whatever you like, you can do. There is no difference. You can imagine your own way . . ." This is going on nowadays. "Whatever you like, you can do. You can imagine your own way of self-realization."

But that is not recommended in the Vedic literatures. One must be ''sadācāra''. This is the beginning of ''sadācāra'': to rise early in the morning, to cleanse, then chant, or chant the Vedic ''mantras'' or, simplified as in the present age, Hare Kṛṣṇa ''mantra'', ''mahā-mantra''. This is the beginning of ''sadācāra''.

So ''sadācāra'' means to become freed from sinful reaction. Unless one follows the regulative principles he cannot be freed. And unless one is fully freed from sinful reaction, he cannot understand what is God. Those who are not in ''sadācāra'', regulative principles, for them . . . just like animals, they are not expected to follow any . . . of course, by nature they follow regulative principles. Still, but human beings, having advanced consciousness, so instead of using it properly, they misuse the advanced consciousness, and thus they become lower than animals.

The animals, for want of advanced consciousness, cannot follow any regulative principles. But by nature they have got some regulative principle. A human being, advanced consciousness, instead of using it for advance in spiritual life, they use it for sense gratification, and thus they become lower than the animals.

So as soon as one becomes irregulated, without any ''sadācāra'', then he doesn't care for any sinful activities for maintaining his body and soul together. He doesn't mind. Their philosophy is . . . what is called? "Existence is the first law of nature," or something like . . .

'''Guest (1):''' Self-preservation.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Self-preservation. So self-preservation . . . they do not know what is self-preservation. That is another ignorance. They consider this body as the self. Their self-preservation means to keep this body. And that is also not possible. If you do not follow regulative principles, it is not possible to keep your body in good condition. That is also not possible.

Those who do not follow the regulative principles, mostly they are diseased, some kind. We find in the medical . . . modern medical shop, the customers are educated people. Mass of people, they are not customers in the medical shop. You'll find it. They are not so much diseased. In every gentleman's house, modern, you'll find so many bottles of medicine. But you won't find such medical bottles in any house of less educated persons. They are not so diseased.

So this is one of the items. If you want to advance in spiritual life, you must follow the regulative principles to rectify your mistakes in the past life and this present life. Without being freed from all contamination nobody can understand God. That is not possible. ''Bhagavad-gītā'' says, ''yeṣāṁ anta gataṁ pāpaṁ'': "One who has become completely freed from all kinds of sinful reaction . . ." ''Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām'', "Persons who are engaged in pious activities only," ''te'', "such person," ''te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā.'' ([[BG 7.28 (1972)|BG 7.28]]).

This life, the material life, is ''dvandva''. ''Dvandva'' means fighting or quarreling. Every one of us has got nature for fighting with others unnecessarily. Even some people come here with a spirit of fighting with me. So this is called ''dvandva''. And ''moha''. How this fighting spirit becomes developed? On account of illusion. What is that illusion?

Accepting this body as self. So if one is contaminated by sinful activity—if he is in illusion, how he . . . illusion of accepting this body as self—what is the meaning of their self-realization? He's illusioned. He'll keep himself in all kinds of contaminated life, and artificially he thinks that by some kind of mystic meditation he'll be all right. This is going on.

No. One must follow. Meditation, yogic meditation, is also possible when there is ''yama'', ''niyama'', ''āsana'', ''praṇāyāma''—the eight principles of ''yoga'' system. And nobody follows the eight principles of ''yoga'' system, and simply sitting down and meditating, that will not help. The first two steps are ''yama'', ''niyama'', then ''āsana'', then ''praṇāyāma'', then ''pratyāhāra'', then ''dhyāna'', then ''dhāraṇā'', then ''samādhi''. These are explained in the yogic ''śāstra'' or ''Bhagavad-gītā''.

So this man, although born of a ''Brahmin'' father . . . now, here it is said that ''naṣṭa-sadācāra''. Although he is born of a ''Brahmin'' father, his ''ācāra'', his dealings for advancing in spiritual life . . . a ''Brahmin'' is expected to be truthful, to be self-controlled, to be fully cognizant of spiritual life, practical application in life, ''jñānam'', ''vijñānam'', ''āstikyam'', to have complete faith in the statement of the ''śāstras''. That is . . . that is called ''āstikyam''.

We, according to our Vedic system, we do not accept any other system of religion, because we consider them ''nāstika''. That is the primary principle. ''Nāstika'' means one who does not believe in the ''Vedas''. He is called ''nāstika''. Not that he does not believe in God. One may believe in God, but one who does not believe in the Vedic literature, he is called ''nāstika''. ''Veda na manīyā bauddha haila nāstika''. Lord Buddha, although he is accepted as incarnation of God, but because he defied the Vedic principles it is said, ''nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātaṁ'' (Śrī Daśāvatāra Stotra 7).

Lord Buddha criticized the, I mean to say, sacrificial ceremonies, because in the sacrificial ceremonies sometimes there is recommendation of killing an animal. But he was preaching nonviolence. So he criticized even the sacrifice in ''yajña''. He criticized. ''Nindasi'' . . . but a Vaiṣṇava is praying, "My dear Lord, You are defying the Vedic principles."

He knows why the Lord is now defying the Vedic principles; therefore he is devotee. In spite of Lord Buddha's defying the Vedic principles, a devotee is offering him obeisances: ''keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare''. He knows the Lord, how He is playing, how He is bewildering the atheistic class of men.

The atheistic class of men did not believe in God. Lord Buddha says: "Yes, you don't require to believe in God. There is no God. But you feel yourself that when you are attacked with violence you feel pain. Why should you offer to others?" Because his mission was to stop animal killing. ''Sadaya-hṛdaya-darṣita-paśu-ghātam''.

The Supreme Lord became too much compassionate when he saw that people are unnecessarily killing animals, as it is going on still. Instead of . . . at least those who are claiming Buddhist, they are killing animals. Hmm? Bruce, is it not? Yes. But in the Buddhist religion there is no sanction for killing animals. Yes?

'''Guest (2):''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hum nahi kehte hain. Sastra kehte hain. Hum kyun kahen. (We are not saying it. The scriptures are saying it. Why should we say something?)

'''Guest (3):''' What about Muhammad?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Muhammad, he also did not believe in the Vedic literature. But according to Vedic literature, anyone who does not believe in the Vedic literature, he is ''nāstika''. Just like the Muhammadans, they say, "Anyone who does not believe in Koran, he is ''kafir''." The Christians say: "Anyone who does not believe in the Bible, they are heathens." That is there everywhere. Similarly, Lord Caitanya said that ''veda na manīyā bauddha haila nāstika''.

He is giving the definition, because we have to follow the great personalities, great ''ācāryas''. That is our process. We do not make any research, or we do not make any statement made by us. We simply accept the injunctions given by great ''ācāryas''. ''Ācāryopāsanam''. That is the process of Vedic system. ''Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet'' (MU 1.2.12).

One must approach a spiritual master and learn from him. So whatever spiritual master says, that is accepted. ''Sādhu guru śāstra vākya''. Real evidence is, it must be stated in the scriptures, it must be explained by the spiritual master or saintly persons. That is evidence.

'''Guest (3):''' ''Śastra-vākya-pramāṇa''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Śāstra-vākya-pramāṇa''. And it should be known through the spiritual master. Just like nowadays ''Bhagavad-gītā'' is being interpreted in so many foolish ways, because they do not accept explanation from the authority. They become themselves authorities. Therefore misused. That is not explanation. Somebody is explaining that Kurukṣetra means this body, ''pañca-pāṇḍava'' means the senses. These are all nonsense. You have to accept ''Bhagavad-gītā'' as it is.

When you cannot understand, you should get it explained by your spiritual master. Therefore one has to accept a spiritual master to understand. ''Tad-vijnanārtham''. In order to understand that transcendental science one must approach the bona fide spiritual master. That is injunction.

So here it is said that ''kānyakubje dvijaḥ''. ''Dvijaḥ'' means he was offered the sacred thread. That means he was born in a ''Brahmin'' family. ''Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ''. Everyone is born a ''śūdra'', a foolish. ''Sudra'' means a foolish man who simply laments. That is the real meaning of ''śūdra''. Anyone who has no intelligence, he is ''śūdra''. We also generally say ''gadāh'', less intelligent.

So ''brāhmins'', ''kṣatriyas'', ''vaiśyas'', they are called higher caste. According to their . . . ''Brahmin'', first class, because his intelligence is first class. ''Kṣatriya'', his intelligence is second class. ''Vaiśya'', his intelligence is third class. And ''śūdra'' means fourth class. And less than ''śūdra'', they are called ''pañcama'', ''caṇḍāla''. They are accepted as animals, those who are less than ''śūdra''. This is the Vedic system.

Now here it is said that this Ajāmila, ''dvija'' . . . ''dvija'' means he was properly initiated, second birth. First birth by father, mother, is ''śūdra''. Anyone, even if he is born in a ''Brahmin'' family, the natural birth is considered as ''śūdra''. But if there is ''garbhādhāna-saṁskāra'', then he's accepted as born ''Brahmin''. Born ''Brahmin''. Still, one is born Brahmin, he has to undergo the ''saṁskāras''.

So our this . . . now it is known as Hindu society, although the "Hindu" word is given by the Muhammadans. It is called ''sanātana-dharma'', or ''varṇāśrama'' society, who very strictly follow the four divisions, social divisions, of ''varṇa—brāhmin'', ''kṣatriya'', ''vaiśya'', ''śūdra''—and four division of spiritual life—''brahmacārī'', ''gṛhastha'', ''vānaprastha'' and ''sannyāsa''. So our . . . the Vedic system is called ''varṇāśrama''.

''Varṇa'' means this social order, and ''āśrama'' means spiritual division. Therefore those who are following strictly the Vedic principle, that family life is called ''gṛhastha āśrama''. ''Āśrama''. Whenever you add this word ''āśrama'' there is spiritual significance.

So all the division—''brahmacārī'', ''gṛhastha'', ''vānaprastha'' and ''sannyāsa''—they are known as ''āśrama''. Anyone can understand ''āśrama''. As soon as there is ''āśrama'', that means "Here some men, saintly person, spiritually advanced person, lives." That is ''āśrama''. So that ''āśrama'', when a student follows the regulative principles, he is supposed to be situated in ''brahmacārī āśrama''. A householder living with family—husband, wife, children—if they are following strictly the regulative principles: ''gṛhastha āśrama''. Similarly, retired life, if he is following the regulative principles: the ''vānaprastha āśrama''.

Similarly, a renounced life, ''sannyāsa'', if he is following the regulative principles, that is ''sannyāsa āśrama''. Not that imitating somebody, I put on a saffron dress and I become a ''sannyāsī'' and by begging I live. This has killed the whole Hindu society or the ''sanātana-dharma'' society. Unqualified persons, they do not know the regulative principles, but for solution of economic problem they dress them. This is Kali-yuga. They will pass on simply by the dress, without any knowledge.

So here also, although Ajāmila was born of a ''Brahmin'' father and he was strictly following the regulative principles of a ''Brahmin''—that will be stated—but he fell. He fell in love with a prostitute, and therefore his characters were lost. ''Naṣṭa-sadācāraḥ''. The reason is, why? ''Dāsyāḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ''. Because he associated with a prostitute, therefore his all regulative principles became lost. And as soon as you are lost of regulative principles, then you take to all kinds of sinful activities. The regulative principles will keep you on the standard of life. If you give it up, then immediately you fall down, ''māyā''.

So this man, Ajāmila, because he was ''durācāra'', ''naṣṭa-sadācāra'', lost of all regulative principles on account of associating with a prostitute, then, although he was born of a ''Brahmin'' family, he became . . . his livelihood was ''juha'', ''bandy-akṣaiḥ'', cheating and stealing. ''Bandy-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś cauryaiḥ''. ''Cauryaiḥ'' means stealing. ''Garhitāṁ vṛttim āsthitaḥ''. This kind of profession is ''garhitā''. ''Garhitā'' means . . . ''hitā'' means beneficial. But this profession is ''garhitā'', because it is not beneficial. Ultimately he will be punished, either by the king's law or by the God's law.

I can escape the king's law by doing something which is abominable but I cannot escape God's law. That is not possible. Therefore, although he is thinking that "Now I am cheating this person," or "I am stealing and getting some profit," that is not good for him. Just like a man is killing some man, another man. So that is not good for him, because as soon as he will be arrested he'll be hanged. So they think that "I am cheating the state, I am cheating God, and I can go on gratifying my senses by all these activities," but that is stated in the ''śāstra'' as ''garhitā''. ''Garhitā'' means "it is not beneficial for you."

''Na sādhu mānye yato ātmano 'yam''. In another place it is said, "These kinds of activities, ''vikarma'', is not good ultimately." ''Na sādhu mānye yato ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ'' ([[SB 5.5.4|SB 5.5.4]]). Although ''ātmā'', the self, is different from this body—that is the first lesson in spiritual life—still, this body, although temporary, but as soon as you accept this material body you will have to suffer according to the body. If you get a dog's body you suffer according to that. If you get a man's body . . . suffering will be there, more or less, as soon as you get this material body.

Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva said, ''na sādhu mānye'': "You are acting abominable. It is not good, because you are already suffering in this body." Otherwise why you are stealing? You are in want of money. You are suffering. Therefore necessity has now law. Therefore you are accepting. Even you know that stealing is bad, still, you are accepting it, because that is a suffering. So for some of your activities in the past life you are now suffering, and if you go on, continuing committing this nonsense, then you will again . . . you will have to again accept a body and you'll suffer. Therefore ''garhitāṁ''.

There are so many things to know, but these things are not discussed nowadays. Very cheap thing: "You can do whatever you like. You simply meditate and become God. That's all." So much cheating is going on everywhere, all over the world. So-called ''yogīs'', they go, "Oh, you meditate. You are . . . and as soon as you realize, you are God, within six months." No.

Therefore in this age the only method . . . it is a concession to the fallen people of this world, this Hare Kṛṣṇa ''mantra''. They'll not be able to follow all the regulative principles; therefore they must commit all kinds of abominable activities. Under the circumstances the ''śāstra'' or God has given a concession that you simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa ''mantra'' and gradually you will be elevated to the highest position of spiritual life. Other things you cannot follow. You are already fallen. So you take to this process of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa ''mantra'' without any offense.

And in order to save yourself from the offenses, a little austerity, that you cannot have illicit sex life. Why should you have illicit sex life? Everyone's need is sex life. ''Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam'' (Hitopadeśa). These are the bodily needs. So ''śāstra'' has sanctioned, "All right. You can live peacefully by married life and have sex life for children, good children." That is allowed. But why should you have illicit sex life? What is this? Irresponsible life. "I shall not take responsibility of family life, and I shall go on as so-called bachelor and have illicit life." But that is not good. That is ''garhitāṁ.'' ''Na sādhu mānye'': "This is not good." This is the advice of Vedic literature.

Ultimately you'll suffer. You are thinking at the present moment that you are avoiding suffering, because family life is very responsible life. So if you think that family life is responsible, yes, it is responsible life. If you don't take, if you cannot take the responsibility, then remain as a ''brahmacārī''. Why should you marry? Yes. If you practice ''brahmācārya'', then you become free, seventy-five percent freedom immediately.

But you do not want to undergo the austerities of a ''brahmacārī'', and still you want to remain as an unmarried man. Everywhere in the world it is going on. This is increasing. That is stated here, ''sadācāra''. ''Naṣṭa-sadācāro dāsyāḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ''. The illicit connection with man and woman will certainly make him abominable, fallen down to this abominable life.

I . . . when I was . . . in my younger days, when I was in business, so I was to take agency one of big company, Smith's Transit Company. So they had to . . . I had to give some guarantee of my honesty. So in that program the question was whether married or unmarried. Because unmarried man mostly become dishonest. So that inquiry was there, "Whether he is married?"

Married man cannot be dishonest, because he has got responsibility. If he is arrested, he will be insulted in his family. His family members will be in difficulty. Therefore he does not commit dishonesty very easily unless it is absolutely . . . but that should not be done. But unmarried man, because he has got no responsibility, he commits all kinds of sinful activity. That's a fact.

Therefore in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we do not allow such illicit sex life. No. You must get yourself married. And practically, we are seeing, that is very effective and that is going on nicely.

All right. Ap log kahan se aaye hain? (Where are you all coming from?)

'''Guest (4):''' (indistinct) . . . yesterday I had a talk with Bhagavati Hema.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Ācchā''.

'''Guest (4):''' She told me to come for an interview . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. So your interview is finished?

'''Guest (4):''' I have got most of my queries and answers, but they remain some.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So you can inquire. But sometimes wrong report is published.

'''Guest (4):''' People releases wrong report. I am a responsible man, sir.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, but some irresponsible report is published in that paper, that "Bhaktivedanta Swami says that Kṛṣṇa is everything and nothing." That . . .

'''Guest (4):''' The very reading was abominable.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's it.

'''Guest:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Guest (4):''' I really couldn't believe it.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, in the reading matter he said that, "He was trained by his father to worship Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, to observe Rathayātrā, and he was taught ''mṛdaṅga''." These are all true. But anyone who worships Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa and who follows the Hindu ceremonies, Rathayātrā, how he can say that "Hinduism nothing"? Just see how rascaldom. This is contradiction.

'''Guest (4):''' Mahārāja, there is reason for that. Because that paper, the managing director or the owner of that press is a Jain. And the Jains have a natural antipathy towards the . . . Mahajanas?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, just see. So how biased man can report? So therefore we are avoiding reports.

'''Guest (4):''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, tape may be. But he also taped, that man. But he has misrepresented.

'''Guest (4):''' I should like to ask one question . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' All right, you can ask. But kindly publish rightly. Don't . . .

'''Guest (4):''' Yes, yes.

'''Guest (5):''' (indistinct) . . . (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Still you want to inquire from her?

'''Guest (4):''' From the entire business.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So you can inquire from me. In my presence, you can inquire from me. Because after all, they are my students; they may not be able to reply thoroughly. So if you have got any inquiries, you can ask from me.

'''Guest (4):''' Yes. Yes. Mahārāja, I am a teacher of Sanskrit and English in one of the higher secondary schools here, and I am very much interested in . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' So you join us. Simply lip sympathy will not do. Just like these boys and girls, they have joined wholeheartedly. So I do not find any Indians.

'''Guest (4):''' I am ready to join, but for my family liabilities. Is there is some . . .?

'''Prabhupāda:''' So you can join. You are family man, so it is not that we have no family men. We have got many family men. Now they are all family. These girls, they have got a husband. And some of them, they are living separately. Just like one of my students, Professor Howard Wheeler. He is married man. He is living separately. Not separately; he is also conducting our one establishment, New Vrindaban. So it is not that one has to live with us. He can live separately also, but his whole life is dedicated to Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted.

'''Guest (4):''' I would like to live with you and tour with you.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So why not come and live and tour with me? Who forbids you? But it is not possible to pay anything for your family expenditure. That is difficulty. We cannot pay anything, but you can live with your family. That responsibility you can take. But I cannot pay you. That's not possible. Because we are maintaining by collecting alms. In that case it is not possible to pay something.

There is . . . it is selling all over Europe. Han Hindi hua hai. Abhi hamare pas hai nahi maujud baki hua hai. (Yes, Hindi it has happened. Now we don’t have it available but it has happened.)

'''Guest (4):''' Mahārāja, could you employ me in some kind of . . . in your publishing?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, employ, I can employ in any way. But there is no payment.

'''Guest (4):''' I am M.A. in English, M.A. in Hindi. I am trying to devote myself to this work . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' So please come.

'''Guest (4):''' But for my family liabilities . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' What amount you want for your family, minimum?

'''Guest (4):''' Five hundred a month.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is not possible. Yes, you require five hundred. I know that. That is not much. To maintain a family nowadays, five hundred rupees is not much, but where is the money? How can I pay?

'''Guest (4):''' (chuckles) I would be a very good asset to your publications work.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That I know. You are qualified, educated boy. You can do it. But one thing I can do, that you can live with your family, just like they are living. That I can arrange. And whatever food we can provide you have to accept. We can . . . we can arrange for the education of your children also, everything. But we cannot pay anything.

That is not possible. We can take charge of the husband and wife. We can take charge of your children. But it is not possible to pay. And besides that, when there is question of payment the service is not good, because the payment means he is serving the money; he is not serving the cause.

'''Devotee:''' (indistinct) . . . (tape of ''kīrtana'' plays for a second)

'''Guest (4):''' His old mother listens to these chantings. (break) . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no. He has appeared to establish ''dharma''. So what is the ''dharma'' according . . .

'''Guest (4):''' ''Śāstra-dharma''. ''Śāstra'' means ''Ārya-samājī-pratiṣṭhā'' . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' So what is that ''śāstra veda dharma''?

'''Guest (4):''' Vedic ''dharma''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So what is that? Explain it practically.

'''Guest (4):''' ''Yama'', ''niyama'', ''samādhi'', ''dhyāna'' . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, that is the process. So what is the end of ''dharma''?

'''Guest (4):''' Self-realization.

'''Prabhupāda:''' What is that self?

'''Guest (4):''' That is to be realized. (laughter)

'''Prabhupāda:''' This is going on. One has no idea what is ''dharma'', what is the end, but he becomes, "Oh, I have appeared for establishing ''dharma''." And when he is asked, "What is that ''dharma''?" "It is to be realized." Then what you have realized that you are preaching ''dharma''?

'''Guest (4):''' ''Sadācāra'' . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Sadācāra'' is the means. ''Sadācāra'' is not the end.

'''Guest (4):''' Can I know as to what made these young people want to leave the affluent Western society and join this . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Because they are sincere, seeking after . . .

'''Guest (4):''' Pardon, sir?

'''Prabhupāda:''' They are sincere, sincerely seeking after. Their material business is finished, because they have enjoyed enough of material things. Now there is spiritual inquiry. That is natural. When our material necessities are complete, we enjoy; then next stage is spiritual hankering. And that is explained in the ''Vedānta-sūtra'', ''athāto brahma jijñāsā''.

After finishing ''karma-kāṇḍīya'' life . . . ''karma-kāṇḍīya'' life means you do pious activities and enjoy life. That is called ''karma-kāṇḍīya''. So . . . but the fact is that even you get your birth in a very rich family, you cannot avoid the sufferings of this material nature.

Just like yesterday we had an interview with Holkar, His Highness Holkar, the old gentleman. So he was a king. He has got very beautiful wife, very beautiful family, very palatial building, but he is not happy, we saw. So the foolish people, they do not know that in this material life there is no happiness. They hanker after these palatial buildings, the motorcars, the bank balance, and so on, so on.

Therefore those who have enjoyed all these things but have not become happy, there is another inquiry: "How to become happy?" Say America, they have enjoyed material life. Their children have enjoyed material life to the fullest extent. But they are not happy. Therefore they have come to this spiritual life.

'''Guest (4):''' Last night in your learned discourse you said that you're supposed to found a temple in this city.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Guest (4):''' But you preach this Vedic ''mārga''. Don't you think that instead of building a temple, ''āśramas'' in this ''brahmacārī'' model would be . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. And without temple, the ''brahmacārīs'' will be ''vyabhicāris''. (laughter)

'''Guest (4):''' That ''āśrama'' becomes a temple.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, that we . . . wherever we have got a center we have got a temple, and at the same time teaching. These two things must go parallel. If simply dry teachings go on and there is no temple worship, then gradually he will glide down to ''vyabhicāri'' instead of ''brahmacārī''.

'''Guest (4):''' Besides the chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and arousing this Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the people, what else are you doing to establish the way . . .?

'''Prabhupāda:''' That you have seen in this morning. We are teaching every day the ''śāstra''. They are not simply chanting. Their chanting is based on understanding. Therefore they are sticking.

'''Guest (4):''' Mahārāja, the educational system of this country has so much deteriorated. I have been studying. I see young people of different colleges, boys and girls taking to LSD even in this city and doing to all sorts of nonsense. What is the best . . .?

'''Prabhupāda:''' That I was explaining. As soon as there is indulgence illicit sex life, all bad qualification will come. That I was explaining.

'''Guest (4):''' And Mahārāja, what are your impressions of the youth of this country?

'''Prabhupāda:''' I have no estimation of "this country" or "that country." I know everywhere, because spiritual education is lacking, everywhere the boys and girls are fallen.

'''Guest (4):''' Is secularism coming in way of this spreading spiritual education?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Secularism is a bogus thing. You see? That is an indulgence: "Whatever you like, you can do. Whatever religion you follow, that's all . . ." No. That is not good. The state should be responsible for the spiritual progress of the citizens. Now, especially in our country, we say it is Hindustan, Bhārata-varṣa. So we are not giving the ''bhāratīya'', or Hindu, spiritual cultural education. So that's a great loss of the secular state.

'''Guest (4):''' Do you think that the present democratic system will be able to impart a spiritual education?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No.

'''Guest (4):''' Then what system do you advocate?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Of course, so far Vedic culture is concerned, they advocated monarchy, because the one man's training, a good king guided by the brahminical culture, although it was autocratic sometimes, but because the king was very cultured there was no possibility of doing any harm to the citizens. But democracy means simply they are given the post by votes, and they may be all rascals. Then what they can think of good to the citizens?

'''Guest (4):''' Mahārāja, don't you think that monarchy . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' No. That is also not possible. And therefore we are training people to be Kṛṣṇa conscious. And when the Kṛṣṇa conscious people will elect Kṛṣṇa conscious leaders, there will be peace and prosperity. And now, because the minority is Kṛṣṇa conscious, they cannot elect Kṛṣṇa conscious leaders, and therefore havoc is being played.

'''Guest (4):''' Mahārāja, do you think that the West is being Hinduized?

'''Prabhupāda:''' The "Hinduized" is a sectarian view. We are not . . .

'''Guest (4):''' I mean this, being brought up on ''sanātana'' culture.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Vedic ways. Yes. You can . . . the perfect word is "Vedic civilization."

'''Guest (4):''' Vedic civilization.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. That is original civilization. Out of Vedic civilization there are so many outcome now, but if you go originally to the Vedic civilization, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the ''Bhagavad-gītā'' you will find the word is ''vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam'' ([[BG 15.15 (1972)|BG 15.15]]). That means to follow the Vedic way of life means to become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

'''Guest (5):''' Apne kaha wo jo principles bataya . . . (The principles which you said about . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, Vedic way means they are following principles, regulative principles.

'''Guest (5):''' Wo kaunsa principle hai? (Which principle is that?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' That I was explaining. That is a big principle. But it has been shortened, shortened in this age.

:''harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam''
:''kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā''
:([[CC Adi 17.21|CC Adi 17.21]])

In the Kali-yuga you cannot reform the whole population by any other means except this ''harer nāma''. Therefore we are introducing Hare Kṛṣṇa movement everywhere.

'''Guest (4):''' Mahārāja, do the Western and Eastern societies respond differently to this call?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No. You cannot say that. Two plus two equal to four everywhere, East and West. There is no difference, East and West. It is scientific. It is ''vijñaṇa''. So when you call of . . . talk of science, there is no difference of understanding in the East and West. The same thing is understood.

'''Guest (4):''' Mahārāja, Varnāśrama-dharma ki sthapana kis tarah ki ja sakti hai? . . . (indistinct) . . . (How can the ''Varnāśrama-dharma'' be established? . . . (indistinct) . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. ''Varnāśrama-dharma'' . . . that is stated in the ''Bhagavad-gītā'': ''cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ'' ([[BG 4.13 (1972)|BG 4.13]]). Qualified. Therefore we want qualified ''Brahmins'', qualified ''kṣatriyas''. At the present moment, without being qualified they are passing on as ''Brahmin'', ''kṣatriya''. That is not ''varṇāśrama''. Without being qualified they are all ''śūdras'', all ''caṇḍālas''. But when they are properly trained and qualified, then it is ''varṇāśrama'', real ''varṇāśrama''.

'''Guest (4):''' Where are they to be trained, then? How are they . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' That we are proposing. When we open a center we shall train anyone. It doesn't matter whether he is born in a ''śūdra'' family or ''Brahmin'' family. Just like they are born in a different family other than ''Brahmin'', but they are now ''Brahmin'', because after being trained up.

'''Guest (4):''' (indistinct) . . . regard, you said that monarchy and democracy, both are systems which cannot help this cause. Then . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, why cannot help? If . . . monarchy means the king was properly trained up. Similarly, in the democracy, if people are properly trained up, then they will vote for nice men and there will be nice government. Now, because the people are not trained, they are practically asses. The votes of the asses, what has the meaning? If the majority are asses, then one ass will be elected. That's all. So when the executive head is an ass, what benefit he can do to the people?

'''Guest (5):''' I see.

'''Guest (4):''' Mahārāja, you said that you had been misrepresented in that report which appeared yesterday in one of the dailies of the cities.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Guest (4):''' How could you like to mend your statement?

'''Prabhupāda:''' My statements are clear there, but he has misstated in the heading with ulterior purpose.

'''Guest (4):''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Young men of cities, they may come to me and be trained up in the spiritual life, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Jitne din hum rakhenge, hum rahenge. (How many days we keep, we will stay . . .) So long you'll ask me to keep there, provided you are serious of taking training from me . . .

'''Guest (4):''' I am very much serious.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then you are welcome. I am asking young men like you to come and join me.

'''Guest (5):''' Savere 5 baje ayenge? (Shall we come in the morning at 5?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Aiye''. Yes. I am speaking in English because my students, they cannot understand Hindi. But if educated young boys like you come, they will be also able to understand English, so there will be no difficulty.

'''Guest (4):''' Thank you, Mahārāja.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Thank you. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (aside) Replay little. No, replay. I will . . . (break) . . . Please try to understand the philosophy. Thank you. Yes. Aa raha hai ya nahi apko, das pandrah . . . (indistinct) . . . wo agaya hai baki hamara jo good government hai na isliye usko mil nahi raha hai. (Are you getting it, 10 to 15 . . . (indistinct) . . . it has already reached here but because of the good government which we have he is not able to get it.) So you are welcome. You come. Live with us with your family. We take charge of you. But if you ask some salary, that is not possible. That is not possible.

'''Guest (4):''' I have my sisters and my mother and father to support.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So let them come, all, and live with me . . . (indistinct) . . . that's nice. Wo jo jimmedari hai unko palan karna . . . (So whatever responsibility is there, that should be performed . . .) That I can take. But if you want money, that is not possible.

'''Guest (5):''' No, I don't want money.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then you come with your whole family. Hum to khane ko dega apko. Sab chiz denge. Ap dekhiye na ye jo sab family baithe hain ye kya khate nahi ya sote nahi? (We are going to offer prasadam to you. Yes we will give everything. Now you see all these families sitting here, don’t they eat or sleep?) (break)

'''Guest (4):''' But still one keeps . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then don't be dependent. Be dependent on Kṛṣṇa. To live here means to become dependent on Kṛṣṇa. That is there. You have to become dependent—either to your master or to your boss or to your brother or to somebody else. But if you become dependent on Kṛṣṇa, your whole problem is solved. Yes. Alright, Hare Kṛṣṇa.

'''Haṁsadūta:''' Maybe you would like to see the books that His Divine Grace has published? . . . (indistinct) . . . (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Is movement me bahut seriously join karna chahiye. (Everyone should take part in this movement very seriously.) Don't consider about money. Ab dekhiye Gandhiji ka tha sab bade bade army seriously join kiye, jail bhi gaye, (Now see, during Gandhiji’s time so many big big armies joined seriously, they even went to jail,) did not care for the family. For political emancipation they sacrificed so much.

'''Guest (5):''' Perhaps they are the people, the older followers of . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Not always these people. Not all. Pet bharne ke liye, ye maya hai. Pet bhagwan sabko, kutta ko bhi bhara deta hai. Pet bharna koi problem nahi hai. (To fill your belly, this is only Maya. God fills everyone's belly, even for a dog. It is not a problem to fill your belly.) We have created this problem. Pet bharna ka koi problem nahi hai. (There is no problem at all to fill your belly.) (break) You'll get your bread, ''bara'', and somebody will fill up your belly. Wo hum log jante nahi. Hum log soch rahe hain hum sangrah karenge. (That we don't know. We are thinking that we will collect it.) It is not possible. Bhagwan deta hai sabko. (God gives to everyone.)

:''nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām''
:''eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān''
:(Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13)

These are Vedic injunctions. You know all this; then why don't you believe in this? To wohi uske liye training chahiye, sadhu sanga chahiye uske liye. Hum log kuch parwah nahi kar rahe, sara duniya . . . (So for that you need training, you need association of devotees. We don’t at all care, the whole world . . .) So it is coming? Bhagwan sabko khilata hai, humko khilayega nahi? Hum bhagwan ke liye sab kuch chod diya. Ye koi sambhav hai kya. (God is feeding everyone, so won’t he feed us. We left everything for God. Is it possible?) (break) We must have faith. ''Adau śraddhā''. Śraddhā' nahi hai, yahi baat hai. (Faith is not there. That’s the only thing.) You should be prepared, even there is difficulty. Just like when I took ''sannyāsa'' I gave up my family life. In the beginning there was so much difficulty. I was living alone. But I never cared for it. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

'''Guest (6):''' Swāmījī, suppose one wants to become Life Member, they can't pay whole money in one charge. They want to pay in installments.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's nice. We shall accept. Oh, yes.

'''Guest (6):''' They told me that it is impossible for them to pay whole sum.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That doesn't matter. Let him pay by . . .

'''Guest (6):''' They are ready to pay two or three installments.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's all right. It is accepted. Please bring them.

'''Guest (6):''' One man, that Bengali person, he is coming. He wants to become member but he is telling that "I am unable to pay whole . . ."

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no, no. That doesn't matter. Let him pay by installments.

'''Guest (6):''' I told him I will ask you, whether you are ready or not . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ap kriya kijiye usko le aiye. (So please bring them.)

'''Guest (6):''' He is coming daily, that man.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, yes. Mr. Chakravarti or Chatterjee. Yes.

'''Guest (6):''' Chatterjee. He is scared of you to ask this.

'''Prabhupāda:''' He is good boy. Yes. No. He had the cap on his head, sweater, cap and pant.

'''Guest (6):''' Yesterday he was asking me to ask you . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Where is my stick? Give me a glass of water. (break)

'''Guest (6):''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then there is no problem. You come and join me. If you want to . . .

'''Guest (6):''' Let me get degree.

'''Prabhupāda:''' You get your degree. That's all right. Finish your education. If I'll be able to open a center, nice center, I shall call so many people, "Come and live with me and be trained up." I am just writing one advertisement. We shall have to publish it. Just read it.

'''Haṁsadūta:''' "Wanted, qualified ''Brahmins'' for preaching ''Bhagavad-gītā'' all over the world. (laughter) Candidates accepted without any discrimination of caste and creed. Apply ISKCON."

'''Yamunā:''' Oh, ho, ho, Prabhupāda!

'''Haṁsadūta:''' "Life Member can send any member of his family for being trained up as qualified ''brāhmin'' who can preach ''Bhagavad-gītā'' as it is all over the world." You're going to put this in the newspaper?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh? Yes.

'''Haṁsadūta:''' Oh, that will be nice.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. (laughter)

'''Yamunā:''' Oh, that's a wonderful notice, Prabhupāda. It's so wonderful.

'''Prabhupāda:''' We have to preach all over the world. We require so many men, so many boys, girls, men we want.

'''Haṁsadūta:''' I should send this to the GBC members in the West, and they should put ads in the paper.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Let us have application.

'''Haṁsadūta:''' Should I copy it down?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, you take it. You take it. Type it.

'''Himāvatī:''' Prabhupāda, in Calcutta Madhudviṣa advertised like that at one meeting, and the next day a man came . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Only one man?

'''Haṁsadūta:''' Two men came.

'''Himāvatī:''' With his six children and his wife, they were prepared, "Let us live here. We will see."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Himāvatī:''' And another old man that was so old that he was ready to die. (laughter)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then you write "young men." No, even old man, there is no question. That we can test, whether he is able, he is a qualified ''Brahmin''. First of all he is qualified ''Brahmin''.

'''Himāvatī:''' You were going to Peruda that day, so we said, "When we return, then you come and join us." But when we returned they didn't come. They changed their mind.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. They . . . they cannot. They cannot. Only young men can join. Old men cannot join. Kya naam apka? (What is your name?)

'''Guest (6):''' Ashoka Kumar.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, yes. I remember. So please, after finishing your education you come and join this great movement. They are joining Communist movement, this movement, that movement. Why not a real, genuine movement for the welfare of the whole?

'''Guest (6):''' I am not joining any . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, I mean to say . . .

'''Guest (6):''' I want to join . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Generally they join. Generally they join.

'''Guest (6):''' My brother also agrees to stay with you.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, that's nice.

'''Guest (6):''' From today we are ready to join you.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, you finish your education. That will be a good qualification.

'''Guest (6):''' Why not you are paying a visit in Lakhpur. There is a very big Gītā Mandir.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Everywhere there is Gītā Mandir. Here there is also big Gītā Mandir.

'''Guest (6):''' No, there . . . here they have mixture of many gods. Not like that. There is only one ''Gītā'', and all, the whole temple, belongs to ''Gītā'' and nothing else.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So if they invite, I can go. Why don't you ask them to invite us? Then we can go immediately.

'''Guest (6):''' Whole temple there is nothing else except ''Gītā'' a ''pracāra'' ''Gītā'' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' But how many preachers they have produced?

'''Guest (6):''' You must be knowing that Vidyananda, Swami Vidyananda . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, he's a great nonsense.

'''Guest (6):''' Oh, no.

'''Prabhupāda:''' I know.

'''Guest (6):''' He has constructed that from Gujarat. He's a Gujārati.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Guest (6):''' He constructed a temple there.

'''Prabhupāda:''' I have seen in Ahmedabad his temple. He established one deity, a woman shape, and there is no Kṛṣṇa. "''Gītā''." "''Gītā''" means a woman. So I don't think he has full understanding of ''Gītā''. He has money; he has spent. That's all. But he does not understand ''Gītā''. ''Gītā'' means unless one takes Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead he does not understand anything of ''Gītā''. That is the test.

He may advertise himself as scholar or this or that, but our only test is whether he accepts Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Personality of Godhead. ''Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja'' ([[BG 18.66 (1972)|BG 18.66]]). That is the test. Is that person accepting Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead? He himself accepts that, "I am God." Is it not? Therefore he's a foolish. He is squandering money, public money. That's all. That is his business. He might have some qualification to collect money, but he does not know what is Kṛṣṇa.

'''Guest (6):''' He's all . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' But I think he is dead.

'''Guest (6):''' He is dead now or he . . . Sadhanananda is dead, Swami Sadhananda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' I know. So that is the test. That is the test. Therefore it is a revolutionary movement. Even so-called followers of ''Gītā'', they will be caught up by this movement as rascals. Because the real purpose of ''Gītā'' they do not know. Real purpose of ''Gītā'' is to know Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That you will find in the ''Bhagavad-gītā'': ''sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi madhava'' ([[BG 10.14 (1972)|BG 10.14]]). And Arjuna says that "Whatever You have said, they're all right, and I accept them in ''toto'', without any revision."

So Kṛṣṇa says that, "I am the Supreme Personality of Godhead." One who does not understand Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Person, what he has read ''Gītā''? He is useless. ''Śrama eva hi kevalam'' ([[SB 1.2.8|SB 1.2.8]]). Simply has labored. That's all. That is the test. Don't you agree to this point? So anyone who does not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he has no knowledge of ''Gītā''. He immediately becomes foolish. That is our test. So Muktānanda, what do you think?

Muktānanda: Yes, Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. That is the test, whether he has understood. In the Seventh Chapter:

:''mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha''
:''yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ''
:''asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ''
:''yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu''
:([[BG 7.1 (1972)|BG 7.1]])

"Anyone . . . how one simply by concentrating his mind upon Me," ''mayy āsakta'', "with ''āsakti'' . . ." ''Āsakti'' means attachment, love. ''Mayy āsakta-manāḥ'': mind attached to Kṛṣṇa in love. ''Yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ'': and performing the ''bhakti-yoga'', ''mad-āśrayaḥ'', under the disciplinary action by a bona fide spiritual master, ''mad-āśrayaḥ''. ''Asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ'': "Then he can understand without any doubt and fully what I am."

That means one who has not understood ''Bhagavad-gītā'' . . . Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he has not found the ''yoga'' properly. And why? That is ''mad-āśrayaḥ'': he does not follow the disciplic succession. ''Mad āśrayaḥ''. And in the beginning, in Fourth Chapter it is said, ''evaṁ paramparā-prāptam'' ([[BG 4.2 (1972)|BG 4.2]]).

So these foolish persons, they do not follow all these principles; therefore they cannot understand ''Bhagavad-gītā''. Anyone. We say . . . it may appear to be very strong word, but that's a fact. Ek chor ko koi bol diya, ye saala chor hai. (If someone says a thief, "This person is a thief".) That's a strong word, that's all right, but he's a chor. (thief.) Wo agar kahega ap strong language use kiya. To chor se kya baat karna he, aise hi to language karna chahiye. Bolo thik he ki nahi? (If the thief says, you have used a strong language. What is there to talk to a thief, this is the language which should be used. Tell me is it correct or not?)

'''Guest (6):''' (indistinct) . . . this movement, I have intent only in Kṛṣṇa, not in any other way.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So that is our movement. Wherever we go, we find out sincere persons, immediately attract. Yes. But if he's not sincere, we cannot attract. If he's sincere, immediately attracted. That is the value of this movement. All my students, they were attracted only because they were sincere. Anyone sincere in seeking after the Absolute Truth will be attracted.

'''Guest (6):''' I am not getting . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Ekāgra''. ''Ekāgra''. ''Yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ'', therefore it is said. "One has to perform this ''bhakti-yoga'' under My representative." ''Mad-āśrayaḥ''.

'''Guest (6):''' I am very grateful to you.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And there is Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura ''Prārthanā''. ''Āśraya laiyā bhaje'', ''kṛṣṇa nāhi tare tyāge'': "One who takes ''āśraya'', shelter of a devotee, Kṛṣṇa does not give him up. Kṛṣṇa accepts him." ''Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ'' . . . because if that person who is giving shelter, if he's pleased, Kṛṣṇa is immediately . . . if he recommends a fool, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa, here is a devotee," Kṛṣṇa will accept immediately.

It doesn't matter whether he's a fool or rascal. Because he is recommended by representative, he will be accepted. ''Yasya pra'' . . . this is the meaning of ''yasya prasādad bhagavat-pra'' . . . without his recommendation there is no entry in Kṛṣṇa's kingdom. ''Yasya-prasādad na gatiḥ kuto 'pi''. If he displeases Kṛṣṇa's representative, he has no entrance to the Kṛṣṇa's kingdom, however learned he may be or whatever he may be. Immediately rejected.

In a business office, suppose a secretary is there. A clerk does not accept the order of the secretary, immediately he should be dismissed. In my personal experience, when I was young manager in a big chemical concern, one correspondent clerk, he disobeyed me. I reported to the head boss. He immediately came and he said, "Get out immediately from the office." And he wanted to plead in so many ways.

Said, "No, I don't want. If you don't go out, then I shall call my doorman. He will forcibly get you out. Get out." I was sorry, because this man is dismissed immediately, but he took. Disobedient . . . "Obedience is first discipline." So if Kṛṣṇa's representative is disobeyed—"Get out immediately." Kṛṣṇa is very strict.

'''Guest (6):''' (indistinct) . . . from tomorrow, he was not able to get . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Just see. Yes. Therefore in our system, ''vaiṣṇavāparādha'' is the greatest offense, to commit offense at the lotus feet of a Vaiṣṇava, and spiritual master is to be considered the first Vaiṣṇava. If there is ''aparādha'', that is great . . . greatest offense. That will spoil the whole spiritual life. These are stated in ''Caitanya-caritāmṛta''. In ''Teachings of Lord Caitanya'' you'll find.

'''Guest (6):''' In yesterday's newspaper I read that somebody donated some land to you . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. No. He has proposed to donate; not he has done. Where you learned this?

'''Guest (6):''' In that . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, somebody has promised. Somebody has promised.

'''Guest (6):''' And it will . . . (indistinct) . . . Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa ''mandir'', I will possibly able to get . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, why not?

'''Guest (6):''' Swāmījī, you are here . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' But if somebody gives me land I may go on staying there.

'''Guest (6):''' No, no, father and mother, they are forcing me to leave you all in my home.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Where it is?

'''Guest (6):''' It is nearby.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Your father, mother, cannot come here?

'''Guest (6):''' They want you to come.

'''Revatīnandana:''' They've come here before.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. (break) (end)

770322 - Conversation - Bombay

2024-02-07T04:59:12Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"

[[Category:1977 - Conversations]]
[[Category:1977 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1977 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1977-03 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Conversations - India]]
[[Category:Conversations - India, Bombay]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Bombay]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Hindi Snippets]]
[[Category:Audio Files 45.01 to 60.00 Minutes]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Conversations - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Conversations - by Date|Conversations by Date]], [[:Category:1977 - Conversations|1977]]'''</div>
{{RandomImage}}


<div class="center">[[Vanipedia:770322 - Conversation - Srila Prabhupada Speaks a Nectar Drop in Bombay|'''  <big>Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this lecture'''</big>]]</div>


<div class="code">770322R1-MAYAPUR - March 22, 1977 - 45:27 Minutes</div>

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1977/770322R1-BOMBAY.mp3</mp3player>

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Echo mano jano mandanam arpane. Manuṣya-janama pāiyā'', ''rādhā-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā''. You can very easily do it. And neglect it simply by dog race, four-legged, four-wheel race. They have no knowledge. Anthill. I have given the name. Anthill?

'''Indian man (1):''' Anthill.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. These big, big buildings, anthill. And these four-wheel car—dog-race. What is the difference between the anthill and the skyscraper building?

'''Indian man (1):''' (indistinct Hindi) . . . more modern only.

'''Prabhupāda:''' The same thing. They are also living in the holes, and we have made some holes.

'''Bhavānanda:''' Even in Africa, we saw some anthills that were as big as skyscrapers.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Ācchā''?

'''Bhavānanda:''' Big, big.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Twenty foot.

'''Bhavānanda:''' Twenty-foot anthills.

'''Indian man (2):''' (indistinct) . . . more than ten foot of the . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' If more men come, then I shall describe all this anthill civilization. "Health." Nonsense, what "Health"? He'll be kicked out immediately.

'''Indian man (2):''' Even healthy development.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, who is healthy if he's going to die? "I am so healthy that I am going to die tomorrow." This is their health.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Illusion. They don't know. Every one of those questions was about the body.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Kṛṣṇa said, ''na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre'' ([[BG 2.20 (1972)|BG 2.20]]). That is healthy, when you do not die even the body is destroyed. And that is healthy life. What is this healthy life? The body is finished and everything, everything is . . . actually everything is finished. And to keep people in that ignorance—"The body is finished; everything is finished" —that's not the fact. Kṛṣṇa very clearly said, ''na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre'' ([[BG 2.20 (1972)|BG 2.20]]). They do not question even how it is possible. That is the most important question. Some lady asked me, "What is the important . . .?"

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' "What is the most important thing in life?"

'''Prabhupāda:''' This is the most important question.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' She was a follower of Rajneesh, that girl up there.

'''Indian man (1):''' That first girl, European girl, was follower of Rajneesh.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' The one who asked the question, "What is the most important thing in life?"

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, if our movement is organizedly pushed on, the Rajneesh position will be over. Rajneesh is already finished. He has no place in Bombay.

'''Indian man (1):''' No, he has been driven out of Bombay. He has gone to Poona, because of all the hocus-pocus was going on, people were complaining. So on moral ground, he has been shifted to . . . I mean he had to go to Poona.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Why do they let him stay there?

'''Indian man (1):''' Because the people are not opposing. If they opposed him, he shall have to vacate there also.

'''Prabhupāda:''' What about Sai Baba?

'''Indian man (1):''' He is doing some camatkar, (magical feats, but . . . he is doing all this chamatkar of getting bhasma, (ashes,) and all gold bangles, and gold rings and all those things, giving it to the people and so people are attracted. Sometimes the biggest families which are blessed by him are also in Karmanis.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' What happened to them?

'''Indian man (1):''' They are all fighting.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' One of them died, I remember.

'''Indian man (1):''' That . . . one of them died. But some other people also fought in the families. Company can't pay heavy . . . they lost control of the company. So if saints come and business is ruined, it is not correct. If he's a real saint, he should have guided them properly. All the professor fighting.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Big family.

'''Indian man (1):''' They are Jains actually.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Who are these Karmani? They are famous family.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Karmani Chambers.

'''Indian man:''' Very big family. Karmani Chambers and Karmani. They are making this electrical towers for transmission. All over India, Asia, they are supplying. Very big contractor.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Big family. Very wealthy. (break) I was just explaining to Bhavānanda why . . . (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Suppose I am a very big business magnate. Next life, if I am going to become a dog—according to my ''karma'', the nature's law will act—then what is benefit? One day before, Indira Gandhi was important. Next day I'll may be nowhere, finished. Nobody knows where is Indira Gandhi. Just twenty-four hours she was most prominent woman, and after twenty-four hours nobody cares to look at her. This nature's law, how you can check? This is going on. Any moment, anything can be changed by the laws of nature. So India's importance is there. They know the law. Therefore so long the body, full of intelligence, human body, is there, they'll utilize it very . . . that is life, not to be carried away by the waves of nature. This is India's duty. So we want to make our institution at least a place for understanding this knowledge. It doesn't matter only a few persons may understand. That is sufficient. ''Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārāḥ sahasraśaḥ'': "If you keep one moon in the sky, that is sufficient for light. What is the use of millions of stars?" Modern education, they are creating twinkling stars, millions. All useless for light. No light. And our Vedic civilization is, "Create one moon. That's all." That is sufficient. We respect, therefore, ''ācāryas''—Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya—not the so-called voted leaders. We don't care for them. What is their value? ''Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ'' ([[SB 2.3.19|SB 2.3.19]]). You say: "Oh, they are being liked, eulogized, by so many hundreds and thousands," but what these hundreds and thousands of people are? ''Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-khara''. They're kept in ignorance like dogs, hogs, camels and asses. This propaganda should go on by the ISKCON movement. Bombay is the nicest place. Invite them. Convince them. We have got answer for everyone, however big scientist, big philosopher, big politician. ''Bhāgavata'' has answered everyone. How selected animals' name has been given. This is ''Bhāgavata''. How the comparison is perfect. I have tried to explain why a particular animal has been selected.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' That purport is very clear.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So the sum and substance is that I have got the opportunity of human form, everyone, and they should not be kept in the same animal consciousness. This is civilization. They should be raised to the standard of inquiring, ''athāto brahma jijñāsā''. That is civilization. This, civilization? Keep them in darkness? Hmm? Sanātana Gosvāmī went to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. The first question is, ''ke āmi kene āmāya jāre tāpa-traya'' ([[CC Madhya 20.102|CC Madhya 20.102]]). "Sir, I was prime minister, and I was very much eulogized by the people as ''paṇḍita''." ''Grāmya-vyavahāre paṇḍita tāi satya māni''. "These village people, they call me ''paṇḍita'', and I also, such a fool, I accept, 'Yes, I am ''paṇḍita''. Yes.' But factually, if I inquire, 'What kind of ''paṇḍita''?' then ''āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jāni'': 'I am such a learned ''paṇḍita'' that I do not know what is the ultimate goal of my life. I am such a paṇḍita.' Therefore I have come to You, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. You say what is my ultimate goal of life." This is approaching ''guru'', not that, "I am ''paṇḍita'', I am ''brahmin'', or minister. Why shall I go to learn? I can teach everyone whatever nonsense I know. Let them . . ." What is that injunction? That emasculation? That Sanjay Gandhi became?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Oh, sterilization.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Rascal, he's a boy, and he thought by sterilization the country will be delivered. Just see. By force. He thought . . . he became learned leader in one day, and he thought, "This will be sacrifice now." This is going on. "Because I am Indira Gandhi's son, I am perfect." Nature's law—"Yes, you are perfect. It is all right. But I'll kick out in a moment—finished."

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Perfect rascal.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Bās. They do not know. ''Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate'' ([[BG 3.27 (1972)|BG 3.27]]). So at least in India these things should be stopped. That is my ambition. India cannot go in that way. We have got so much stock of knowledge. ''Bhārata-bhūmite haila'' ([[CC Adi 9.41|CC Adi 9.41]]). That I want. Others rascals may be misled, but in India at least there must be an ideal class. That I want. Why India's name should be defamed, that they are following in the same blind man's way? Therefore I repeatedly said that, "I invite you all. Come. Join. Understand." What is this nonsense? "Health. What will be the health?" But where is your health, nonsense? You are going to die next moment. And "WHO"? What is that "WHO"?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' That Rajneesh.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh? No, no, that . . .

'''Indian man (2):''' Question last night.

'''Prabhupāda:''' United Nation, WHO.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Oh. World Health Organization.

'''Prabhupāda:''' World Health Organization. Rascal, who is healthy? Everyone is going to die. "World Health Organization." They are manufacturing. They do not think that, "Where is health?" Such foolish things are going on all over the world. So organize something reality and spread, slow but sure.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' We shouldn't be impatient to compromise just to . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' There is no question of becoming impatient. You have got diamond. No buyer of diamond—that does not mean you have to throw it away.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' And sell something less.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Diamond is diamond. It must be purchased by the suitable customer. Because there is no customer I shall throw it away? So we have got diamond. It is not possible that everyone will purchase it, but there must be diamonds. People must know that, "Here is diamond. If I want it, I must pay the proper price." That I want to establish. Why India's culture should be lost in this way, in the wilderness? I am not cheap patriot like Gandhi and . . . I want to give Indian culture to the whole world. I'm not going to cheat people, taking ''Bhagavad-gītā'' and speaking all nonsense. I want to present ''Bhagavad-gītā'' as it is. That is my mission. Why shall I cheat you, a gentleman? Baat-cheet kuch samajh me aa raha hai. (Are you able to understand the dialogue?)

'''Indian man (1):''' Ha ji. (Yes sir.) We'll try to follow your message properly.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Boliye, mataji theek-thaak hain? (So, is your mother keeping good health?) Why India's such big culture should be lost for the matter of these rascal leaders? This should be stopped. As Kṛṣṇa says, ''cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma'' ([[BG 4.13 (1972)|BG 4.13]]). There must be ideal ''brahmin'', ideal ''kṣatriya'', ideal ''vaiśya'', as Kṛṣṇa says. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is all-inclusive. Economic question? ''Annād bhavanti bhūtāni'' ([[BG 3.14 (1972)|BG 3.14]]). Grow food. Practical. Just like when I was going to the ''paṇḍāls'', millions of clerks were coming—"Education. Educated." And who is growing food? And they have to be provided in these pigeonholes and depend on ration. Is that civilization? And throngs of people are coming, just like machine, ants. Ants are coming. I saw like that. And go to the village side—all vacant land. Nobody's interested to produce food. Everyone is interested to live within the city, in these pigeonholes, and go to the cinema and go to the brothel, go to the club and learn how to drink, how to become gentleman. Is that civilization? Human life's aim is lost. You do not know why you are going to the office, why you are eating, why you are . . . keeping them all pet animal's mentality, doggish mentality. We have explained. University education means doggish mentality. Unless he becomes a dog, there is no food. No, the dog goes . . .

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Wagging it's tail.

'''Prabhupāda:''' "Give me some food." "''Hut hut hut!''" Then another animal. And as soon as you give some food, oh, so many—"''ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka''." For five hundred posts, 300,000 applications. Did you see that?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Coming at Churchgate.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, there was a newspaper publication. For some post there is five hundred posts vacant.

'''Indian man (1):''' Oh, yes I saw that. For application for a job, five jobs and five thousand people applied.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Five thousand. Is that education? Better not to be educated. Those who are not educated, they purchase ten rupees' worth of potato and sit down anywhere, and half . . . (laughter) Five rupees. Yes.

'''Indian man (1):''' All vegetable are . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' You take some ''dāl''. Go to house to house, ''dāl''. They have no scarcity. And after spending so much money, living at the cost of fathers, mothers—unemployed. No job. No food. Then plan something: Naxalite, this party, that party. Join some political movement and help Indira Gandhi. They are paid to make propaganda. They are paid. And they earn money by smuggling.

'''Indian man (1):''' But that all has vanished now. That plan has failed now completely.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Not failed. Another man will come. Because unemployment is there. Practically, when we were boys, children, we were purchasing mustard oil, eight annas for two-half, two-half only, kilo, first class. In Calcutta, Kanpur mustard oil. So my father would give me eight annas. I shall go to the shop and purchase. Now that quality, even taking it . . . he's now selling thirteen rupees per kilo. Will the change of government bring this thirteen rupees to three annas? Then what is the benefit? The same stool, this side or that side. People are not going to get any relief by this change of government. So we are not concerned about thirteen rupees or three annas or . . . some way or other, people are getting their things. That's all right. But the real loss is to remain in animal mentality and forget the aim of life. That is the real loss. Kṛṣṇa says plainly,

:''aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā''
:''dharmasyāsya parantapa''
:''māṁ aprāpya nivartante''
:''mṛtyu-saṁsāra''
:([[BG 9.3 (1972)|BG 9.3]])

"This ''Bhagavad-gītā'' that I am speaking, if one is not interested to hear it or to take it, then result will be he'll not get Me." "So what is loss if I don't get You?" No, ''mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani'': "Then go again to the cycle of birth and death." That's it. That is nature's law. If my next life I become a worm, then it will take millions of years to evolve, again come to the human standard. How I am lost. That they do not know. It is clearly said, ''mām aprāpya'': "By not getting Me." "So what is loss if I don't get Kṛṣṇa?" No, ''mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani''. That you cannot check. You have to die. ''Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ'' ([[BG 2.13 (1972)|BG 2.13]]). You have to accept another body. Then you go on. Why this human form of life should be lost in this way? At least to try to give this knowledge to the people in general is ''para-upakāra''. This is ''para-upakāra''. And that is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's gift. India can especially do it.

:''bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra''
:''janma sārthaka kari''
:([[CC Adi 9.41|CC Adi 9.41]])

Kuch samajhao ye moorkh log ko, (We must explain all this to the foolish people.) (break) . . . there and some great man, not that they think bad. And if somebody checks me, how great enemy he is.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' The natural tendency of the people here is to be God conscious, but the government is artificially checking. Whether this new government will be any different?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No. The same fools, rascals.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' So we have to be very strong in our center here in Bombay.

'''Prabhupāda:''' We are for everyone. We are not for any nation, any particular person.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Our preaching has to be so strong, that it will counteract the government's preaching, the movies and all these other Kali-yuga things.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, yes. All influences.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' I wanted to know how . . . last night were you having any difficulty? Feeling any difficulty?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Passing . . . (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Not this section, this nation, this religion. No, not like that. They are going to die, and they're organizing "health." Just see their intelligence. Butchers' health organization. A butcher is going to kill the animal tomorrow, and today he's seeing that health is . . . healthy is animal. This is . . . so there is a health organization, WHO? World Health Organization?

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes. WHO. Geneva.

'''Prabhupāda:''' A butchers' health organization. Take these ideas all, there. Everything is there, already mentioned. Cultivate. Try to give Kṛṣṇa in every . . . let everyone come, stay with us, learn this art, preach all over the world. And Bombay is city where you'll get all kind of help. Besides that, we shall get help from all over the world. But do it very cautiously, thoroughly. Don't take it as insignificant. Very important. I am talking of this Māyāpur. So this is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. ''Bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya'' ([[CC Adi 9.41|CC Adi 9.41]]). Why He's stressing ''bhārata-bhūmi''? Yes. It is a fact. Real knowledge is here, ''Bhagavad-gītā'', speaking Kṛṣṇa Himself. Why such knowledge should be denied? Is that all right?

'''Pañcadraviḍa:''' To lose it? No.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Pañcadraviḍa:''' To lose this knowledge? No, it's not all right.

'''Prabhupāda:''' People are in darkness. To keep them like dogs, hogs, camels, and take vote from them and become a leader . . . nobody protested that we call all the men dogs, hogs, camels. Nobody came forward that, "You are using very strong words." It's a fact.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' They agree.

'''Hṛdayānanda:''' They were applauding your lecture last night.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Our Tamāla Kṛṣṇa appreciated very much.

'''Hṛdayānanda:''' Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes, I loved that lecture.

'''Hṛdayānanda:''' It was wonderful last night.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' I told Prabhupāda the lecture was like atom bomb.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. He told like that. (chuckles)

'''Hṛdayānanda:''' Said atheistic leaders are like animals, stronger animals.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, big animal.

'''Hṛdayānanda:''' They especially liked your idea of American money and Indian culture.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Hṛdayānanda:''' They applauded for that.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is my mission. I am doing that. I am bringing money from America. Nobody's paying me. It is not joke. Ten ''lakhs'' of rupees, who brings?

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Even big export companies don't bring so much.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And they'll be glad. They have got money and they are getting culture. I am trying for United Nation. That is real attempt of United Nation, not this United Nation—all rogues and thieves and cheaters, barking dogs. I am trying for the United Nation. Help me. This is real United Nation. ''Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām'' ([[BG 18.54 (1972)|BG 18.54]]). It is United Nation. So I began this movement very humbly, loitering on the street of New York. Now it has come to this stage. Let us cooperate together nicely.

'''Hṛdayānanda:''' Your Bombay project very impressive. We've just taken a tour.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Therefore I persistently took that place. Nobody encouraged me. He is all. (laughter) Nobody helped me. I hesitated little bit, that "If I am persistent to take it, they will not cooperate. It may be failure." So still I took it. And only fifty thousand and one ''lakh'' of rupees I gave this thief Nair, "All right, take it. Come on. Whatever I have got, you take it." Still he thought, "Oh. I'll get money."

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' He had already played the trick with one man.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Still, I took the risk that, "I have no money. If he cheats me, that's all right, but let me attempt."

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Then you installed the Deity as soon as possible.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Immediately Akash Ganga left. All Kṛṣṇa's desire.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Everyone is appreciating how wonderful this project is, all of Bombay.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So much obstacles, one after another, one after another, one after another.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Kṛṣṇa would not leave.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No. That was my request, "Please sit down here tight. Then I shall do everything."

'''Pañcadraviḍa:''' Practically Girirāja has not left either.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. He was not trembled in any circumstance. That is his qualification. That nasty, hot, mosquitoes. You also lived there. No gentleman can live.

'''Pañcadraviḍa:''' I lived there also, Śrīla Prabhupāda. So many rats.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Rats, mosquitoes and so much inconvenience. Had no place. Sometimes here, sometimes there, sometimes there.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' You were also so inconvenienced. You had to move. One time you were living in that . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' But you . . . for me you make good arrangement wherever I live, that's all. But I know how you were living in that nasty hut, full of dirty things, mosquito, rats, dropping of water. And Nair is attacking, Municipality is attacking.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' You always said that we were so trained that we would even live on the roadside.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, yes. That you are trained. (laughs) You don't care for this palace or underneath a tree.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Formerly we were living like that as hippies, and now we live like that to serve you.

'''Prabhupāda:''' I was living in Rādhā-Dāmodara temple. It was not a palace. But before that, I was living in a palace. That is Keśī-ghāṭa. But this ''gosāi'' called me that, "You live here?" And "All right," Svarūpa Dāmodara Gosvāmī's, er, yes, Jīva Gosvāmī's place. "Let me go there." Now organize. Make very good plan that our Bombay temple will be always crowded with thousands of men, and some program must go on.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' You mentioned the other day that five hundred devotees should always be there.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, yes. We have got place.

'''Pañcadraviḍa:''' Bombay?

'''Prabhupāda:''' We have got place. All right.

'''Devotees:''' ''Jaya'' Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So enthusiastic. All young men.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Our enthusiasm is coming from you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We're simply enthusiastic coming from you.

'''Prabhupāda:''' I am old man.

'''Hṛdayānanda:''' Oh, Prabhupāda!

'''Pañcadraviḍa:''' ''Nava-yauvana''. (end)

771004 - Conversation - Vrndavana

2024-02-07T04:59:11Z

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771018 - Conversation C - Vrndavana

2024-02-07T04:59:11Z

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770727 - Conversation - Vrndavana

2024-02-07T04:59:03Z

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771113 - Conversation B - Vrndavana

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[[Category:1977 - Conversations]]
[[Category:1977 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1977 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1977-11 - Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Conversations - India]]
[[Category:Conversations - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Bengali Snippets]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Hindi Snippets]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with both Bengali and Hindi Snippets]]
[[Category:Audio Files 30.01 to 45.00 Minutes]]
[[Category:1977 - New Audio - Released in July 2012]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Conversations - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Conversations - by Date|Conversations by Date]], [[:Category:1977 - Conversations|1977]]'''</div>
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<div class="code">771113R2-VRNDAVAN - November 13, 1977 - 31:12 Minutes</div>

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1977/771113R2-VRNDAVAN.mp3</mp3player>

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' It's sort of encouraging to see you taking milk. That's encouraging. That's something which you always said if you could take, you would get stronger, so I'm encouraged by that. I think that a great deal of patience is ultimately required, you know. We have to expect that actual strength and muscles will take a little time to come. (aside) Prabhupāda's being disturbed by gases . . . (indistinct)

'''Upendra:''' What's wrong?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Prabhupāda's feeling a little gas.

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Gas malum hota hai thoda sa pet me. (He is experiencing some accumulation of gas in the stomach.)

'''Kavirāja:''' Pet me? Kam ho jayega . . . (In the stomach? It will reduce.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' That will go away.

'''Kavirāja:''' . . . tatti nhi hone se ho rha. (. . . this is because of not passing stool.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Accha. (Okay.)

'''Kavirāja:''' Gas kuch nikalta nahi hai Maharaj. (Is some of the gas expelled, Mahārāja?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ha. (Yes.)

'''Kavirāja:''' Thik. (Fine.)
(indistinct background conversation)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Wo tel to sirf lagake . . . sirf laga nahi paye. Aur kuch, malish karne ko . . . (We could not apply that oil. Is there anything else to massage? . . .)

'''Kavirāja:''' Thoda-thoda. Usse tel turant hi dus pandrah minute me kaam ho jayega. (indistinct) Yaha se leke full body pe lagana. Malish kya kare? Haddi-haddi hai. Mans to hai hi nahi. (indistinct) (Use it in little quantities. Within 10 to 15 mins, it will have the effect . . . (indistinct) . . . starting from here, apply on the full body. What massage will you do anyway? It is just a bag of bones now. There is no flesh . . . (indistinct) . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Ki, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

'''Prabhupāda:''' They are taking urine?

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Ota . . . (indistinct) . . . peshab . . . (indistinct) . . . ekhon nicchen. (That is . . . (indistinct) . . . urine . . . (indistinct) . . . is being taken now.)

'''Kavirāja:''' Aj arak kam piye hai? (Did you take less medicine today?)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Nahi, aj bahut piye hai. (No, he took a lot today.)

'''Kavirāja:''' To thik hai. Peshab . . . (Then it's okay. Urine . . .)

'''Upendra:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda, you didn't pass any urine the first time. Do you want to try again? We can cleanse you now?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. (break) Bon Mahārāja Dandavat. (indistinct)

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Dandavat. Na, Prabhupader ashim kripa apnar upore. Apni ja mahat seva korechen, er kono tulanai nei ar. Mane Prabhupader aparishimit shakti apnader sathe. Biswamoy Mahaprabhur . . . (indistinct) . . . apni korechen. Amra shob to mahan gourabanito apnar kaje. (Obeisances. No, Prabhupāda has bestowed immense mercy upon you. The great service which you have done is incomparable. I mean, Prabhupāda's unlimited potency is with you all. You have preached the message of Mahāprabhu all over the globe. We are proud of your achievements.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ashirbad korun, jodi benche thaki . . . (Bless me, if I remain alive . . .)

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Joto din apni benche thakben, toto din Mahaprabhur seva aro, Prabhupader mahima biswe aro prachar hobe. (As long as you are alive, Mahāprabhu and Prabhupāda's glories will be propagated more and more all over the world.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Koshter bishoye mane durbal, tai na? (The weakness is your main cause of discomfort, right?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ar ki. (Yes, that's true.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Goto koyek bochor dhore shorirer upor eto atyachar korchen, je ekhon eke bare bhenge porechen. (Over the last few years he has overworked himself so much that his body has completely broken down.)

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Boysh to hoyeche. (The age should also be considered.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Hmm, boysh to hoyeche. (Yes, the age should be considered.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ei ektu ektu kirtan shunchi ar pore achi. (I am just listening to some ''kirtana'' and lying here all day.)

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Ei namer probhabei to apni eto boro sheba kaj korechen. Nameri kripa. Apnar kojon bhakto giyechilen, boroncho apnar mone jegeche Mahaprabhu je shob sthan giyechilen shei shob sthan jawar. Ami to oder bolechi uni manashei shorbotro jaben, shorire ki eto koshto shojjo hobe. Mahaprabhur joto sthan, dakshin dishei beshi. Ami oder bolechi Charitamriter theke shei shob sthan gono bole, Maharaj shunben. Moner bhitorei to shei sthan bhraman hoye jabe. (It is by the power of this holy name that you have performed such a great service. It is the mercy of the holy name only. Some of your devotees went on a tour of the places visited by Lord Caitanya and that created a desire within you to have darsana as well. I told your disciples that you may go on a mental pilgrimage but physically, you won't be able to take the exertion. Many of Mahāprabhu's pastime places are mostly in the South. So I told them to recite those pastimes to you from ''Caitanya-caritāmṛta'' and you will visit those places in your mind itself.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ami to tirtha sthane jayni. Mollar dour masjid, oi America. Ar recently Haridwar gechi. Hmm. (I have never gone on any pilgrimages. My condition is like that of the Muslim cleric who goes only as far as up to his mosque. Similarly, I went up to America and that's all. Recently, I went to Haridwar. Hmm.)

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Kichu koshto bodh hoye naki? (Do you feel any discomfort?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Shorir ta je bhabe paribartan hoyeche, ekta angul narte, pa narte assistant lagte hoy. Ektu koshtokar i hoyeche. (Bodily condition has changed in such a way that just to move a finger or move my leg, I need an assistant. That is a little troublesome.)

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Shei jonno Kabirajir kache chikitsha korachilen na. Shei ti apnake effective hoye. Shei ageo, prothom bare te shei tel malish kore tore apnar shob thik hoyechilo. (For that you were taking some treatment from the Kaviraja, right? That is quite effective for you. Previously, it was this oil massage only that helped you recover.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Tai to korchi kintu bishesh . . . (That's what I am doing but nothing tangible is . . .)

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Ei boyshe dhorun shorire oshubidha ashbei. Kintu apnar mon to khub thik ache. Kotha bolte parchen thik. (At this age, the body is bound to give some trouble. But your mind is in sound condition. You can speak very coherently.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Mon to kromosho smriti bibhrom hoyeche. (My mind is gradually becoming bewildered.)

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Hoyni. (Not at all.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hoye ashche. (It will happen very soon.) (laughing)

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Ekhono to apnar khub alert mind. (Your mind is still very alert.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Morbar purbe smriti bibhrom hoy. (Before death, the mind gets bewildered.)

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Shei ta ekdin amader shokoleri hobe. She ar . . . ek din jetei hobe. Shei jonno kichu noy. Apnar je ekhono mon royeche. Harinam shunchen, kirtan shorbokhon hocche. Ei je sankirtan ta . . . Vrindavan dham. Amar to oi akanksha, deha to chartei hobe ek din. To dhame chara tai hocche shorbottom. Bhagavan er lila bhumi. (That will happen to all of us one day. Everyone has to leave this body some day. That is not an issue. But you are still completely aware of everything. You are listening to ''harinam'', ''kirtana'' is going on continuously. This ''sankirtana'' . . . Vṛndāvana dhama. It is my desire that since I have to leave my body one day, it is best to die in the holy ''dhama''. The place where the Supreme Personality of Godhead performed his pastimes.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Shei jonnei to ghure phire elam ekhane. (That's why I returned to this place.)

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Amadero apnar kache oi prarthana. Je kodin Krishna rakhben, she kodin thakte hobe. Je din tini niye jaben, tar dhamei jate apnake niye nen, shetai shorbottom. Ar nahole to shob darshan hoyeiche. Ar je shob tirther kotha, Mahaprabur sthan manashe chinte kore. Vrindavaner upore to ar kono tirtha nei to. E to mahan Bhagavaner lila bhumi. Apnar gourab kotha shob jayga amra shuni. Shokolei apnar guna kirtan kore. Aparishimit sheba apni korechen. Apnar Toronto, Montreal center e amake ora niye giyechilen. Ager bare jokhon giyechilam. Ami oder cheleder bollam, bhai ami jabo kintu ami gelei hari katha bolbo. Ha nischoyi, amra shob byaboshtha korbo. Tarpor Montreal e ami ekjon bangali engineer er barite chilam. Ami oder bollam, apnar shishyader, je bhai amar ekhan kar khawa maha mushkil, ami khetei parbo na. Ora amay eto jotno korechilen, shob prasader byabostha, mathe niye giye, tarpor abar or barite giye pounche diye. Tarpor ami okhan theke Ottawa jabo, amar plane thik hoye geche. Ora du jon brahmachari eshe bole je amra motor e jacchi, apnake amra khali niye jabo. To ami bollam amar ticket to shob hoye geche. Or bollo, kichu noy, amra cancel kore dicchi. To ora khub jotno korechilo, brahmachari. (This is also our prayer for you. As long as Kṛṣṇa keeps you in this body, you have to stay. But when He takes you away, may He accept you back into His abode. That is the highest destination. Apart from that, you have visited all holy places. For the pastime places of Mahāprabhu, meditate on them in your mind. There is no place higher than Vṛndāvana. This is the great pastime place of the Lord. Everywhere we are hearing about your glorious achievements. Everyone is singing your glories because of the unparalleled services that you have rendered. They took me to your center in Toronto, Montreal when I went there last time. I had told them that if I visit your center then I must speak some ''hari-katha''. They said that they would definitely make all arrangements. At that time, I was staying at the house of a Bengali engineer in Montreal. I told your disciples that it was impossible to take the food that my hosts will offer. Then they took great care of me, arranged for ''prasadam'' after taking me to their temple and also delivered ''prasadam'' to the house where I was staying. Next, I was planning to visit Ottawa and my flight ticket was already booked. Two of your ''brahmacaris'' came and told me that they were traveling to Ottawa in a motorcar. They offered to take me along with them. I told them that my ticket was already booked but they said that they would cancel it. They took tremendous care, your ''brahmacaris''.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Toronto notun church peye geche? (Have they acquired the new church in Toronto?)

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Ha, oi church barita niyeche. Shekhane apnar mandir hobe. Ora amay bollen. Nahole emni chitrapat, e shob hoye geche. (Yes, they have acquired that church. Your temple will be constructed there. They informed me. Otherwise all the paintings are ready.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hoye geche. (Yes, they are ready.)

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Khub boro, khub boro church. (It is very big. Very big church.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ekta ghor nei, bhangtei . . . (There is not a single room inside, breaking is . . .)

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Oi bhitore remodel kore, mandire. Bigraha to pratishthit chilen okhane, apnar mandir . . . (Some remodeling will be needed inside to turn it into a temple. The Deities were installed there.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Bigraha pratishtha hoyeche. (Yes, the Deities are installed.)

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Bigraha ami dekhe eshechi. (indistinct) (I have seen the Deities . . . (indistinct))

'''Prabhupāda:''' Besh boro mandir. (It is a very big temple.)

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Ar apnake amra ki bolbo. Apni Mahaprabhur bani puran korechen, apnar dara Mahaprabhu koriyechen. Prithibite shorbotro prachar hoibe naam, e apnar madhyamei bastuto hoyeche. Oneke geche, esheche, she onno byapar. (What else can we say about you! You have fulfilled the prediction of Mahāprabhu. It is Mahāprabhu who has fulfilled it through you. The prediction that the Holy Name will be sung in every town and village of the world, has manifested through you. Many have gone and returned, that is a different story.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Dandabat Maharaj, ami ki korte pari. (Please accept my obeisances Mahārāja, what can I achieve?)

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' ''Nimitta-mātraṁ bhava savya-sācin''. Apnakei to nimitta korechen Prabhupada. (Prabhupāda has made you an instrument.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Apni shob shomoyi encourage korechen. (You have always encouraged me.)

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Barabari apnar je . . . (indistinct) . . . prothom mone thake. Ami apnake tokhoni bolechilam je ingreji na janle to bideshe jawa jabe na, apni jaan America. Bhagavaner kripay . . . (indistinct) . . . kaj korechen shofol. (Throughout all these years your . . . (indistinct) . . . the first thing I remember. I had told you that without knowing English it is not possible to go abroad so you should go to America. By the Lord's mercy . . . (indistinct) . . . you have successfully done it.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ami jokhon boi ta likchilam, apni bolechilen . . . (indistinct) . . . je apnar ek ek khana boi, ek ek khana mondir. (When I was writing the books, you had said that each one of my books is like a temple.)

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Apnar boi hocche apnar real contribution. Apni je eto granth korte perechen. Ar shei ta chirosthayi, chirodin thakbe. (Your books are your real contribution. It is remarkable that you have been able to write so many books. And these are everlasting, it will stay forever.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Soviet desher certificate dekhao. (Show him the Soviet certificate.)

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' She apnar San Francisco te apnar Mayor du din public holiday diyechilo, shei shune ami maha ananda anubhab korechilam. Je ar keu korte pareni, apnar dwarai to hoyeche Rath Yatra. Eshob onek kal byapar, apnar dwarai hoyeche. (When I heard that the Mayor of San Francisco has declared two days of public holiday for Ratha Yatra, I felt overjoyed. No one else could do it but you managed to organize Ratha Yatra on foreign soil.)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' This is a certificate arrived from the Soviet Union.

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' It's in Russian language or in English?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Well, some of it, I think, is in Russian. I have the translation. It says . . . the top wording here, this says that "Books in the service of peace and progress. A diploma for the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, Bombay, given by the First Moscow International Book Fair Exhibitions and Fairs, General Directorate of International Book Exhibitions and Fairs, USSR."

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Fine. Kemo apurbo korechen! Russia r lokrao manche. (Such a wonderful feat! Even people of Russia are appreciating it.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Shob Soviet deshete boi niyeche. (All the Soviet countries have taken these books.)

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' All Russian universities ordered Prabhupāda's books.

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Prabhupada oi rastai dekhiye giyechilen. (That was the way shown by Prabhupāda.) Press platform. Dui apni korechen. (Both you have done.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ei Radha-Kund e je Prabhupader shonge dekha korte gechi Bombay theke, . . . (indistinct) . . . to uni ektu dukha korlen. "Amader dusho-araisho taka bhara dito, anande kete jeto. Je din theke . . . (indistinct) . . . ei patharer bari toiri holo, jhagda-jhati. Ke kon ghore thakbe?" (When I had gone from Bombay to Radha Kund to meet Prabhupāda . . . (indistinct) . . . so he was feeling a little sorry. "With a minimal rent of 200 to 250 rupees, we used to live in great joy. But since the day this marble palace was constructed, there has been quarreling and fighting. Who is going to stay in which room?")

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Oi tai amader abhishampat holo. Ultadingi thakle adarsh chilo shob. (That turned out to be a curse for us. Staying in Ultadingi was ideal in every way.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' "To amar iccha hoy, ei pathar gulo khule kicho jodi boi print . . ." . . . (indistinct) . . . seriously nilam ar tarpori boi likhte arambho korlam. First Bhagavatam ar tar ingreji. Apni bollen je ek ekta boi korte, eksho taka. Bhalo mandir. (Prabhupāda continued, "I feel like taking out this marble and selling it to print some books." . . . (indistinct) . . . took it seriously and started writing books from that point of time. First was ''Bhāgavatam'' and its English translation. You told me that it would take 100 rupees to get each book ready. That's a nice temple.)

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Ebong sthayi mandir. (And that too a permanent temple.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. Ashirbad korun. (Please bless me.)

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Ekhon jodin Prabhupada apnake rakhben, todin alochana hoye apnar ekhane. Ar ekdin . . . (Now, as long as Prabhupāda keeps you in this body, we can have such discussions here. Another day . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Dasham skandha ta ingreji te hoye geche. (indistinct) . . . dasham skandha . . . (indistinct) . . . (The tenth canto has been translated to English . . . (indistinct) . . . tenth canto . . . (indistinct) . . .) two parts . . . (voice chokes)

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Thak apni strain korben na. Charitamrita apnar pochish volume e hoyeche. Shei dekhiyeche. (That's okay. Don't strain yourself. ''Caitanya-caritāmṛta'' has been completed in 25 volumes. They showed me.) That's ''Bhāgavatam'', Tenth Canto. That is up to which chapter?

'''Jayādvaita:''' Twelve chapters are finished. This is up to Chapter Twelve. And now thirteenth chapter is also completed.

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' In and out, both are superexcellent. Inside, in Mahārāja's translation, and outside, your publication, printing, makeup—everything superexcellent. That is first attraction, when you take the book in your hand you feel that is something very nicely done. I don't think in India we can have this type of printing and publication. You get them printed now in Los Angeles, no?

'''Devotee:''' Kingsport.

'''Jayādvaita:''' They're printed in Tennessee.

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Tennessee.

'''Jayādvaita:''' The work is done in Los Angeles, then in Tennessee, and the pictures are printed separately from the ''Bhāgavatam''. Then the pictures are sent to the publisher in pages.

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Last time they told me in New York . . . your press was in New York, and they were shifting it to Los Angeles. About two hundred ''brahmacārīs'' were working there, and they told me.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Now it's in Los Angeles.

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Now it's in Los Angeles. Well, it is all Mahāprabhu's will, and Prabhupāda is our . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Amader Los Angeles er godown dekhechen? (Have you seen our go down in Los Angeles?)

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Na ami shekhane jayni. (No, I haven't gone there.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Howrah Station.

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' ''Haribol!'' (laughter)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' I have a picture of it, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I have a picture of that BBT godown.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Show him.

'''Devotee:''' It's about two blocks long and about one block high.

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Everything is done in a very big way.

'''Jayādvaita:''' 'Cause Prabhupāda's a big . . . (indistinct) . . . and he needs everything big.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oderke bolechi, ja . . . (indistinct) . . . (I have told them, whatever . . . (indistinct) . . .)

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Apnar strain hole Maharaj bolben na. Apnar shorir to durbol. (Please don't speak Mahārāja if you feel strained. Your body is very weak.)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Here's a picture of that book godown in Los Angeles.

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' What's the length of the building?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' What is the length of that building, Jayādvaita? (discussion among devotees) Twenty thousand square feet in area. Twenty thousand.

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' In area. Well, in your country, in USA, everything is very big. Nothing is done in a small way.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' This is the Los Angeles temple. These are the Deities, Śrī-Śrī-Rukmiṇī-Dvārakādhīśa.

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' In Los Angeles?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' In Los Angeles. Yes. Then we have a very nice doll exhibition there.

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' What is that exhibition?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Doll, diorama. These are some of the exhibitions. This devotee here, Bharadvāja dāsa, he's the creator of this doll exhibition. This is our temple in New York now, this building.

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' You have purchased it? There was a talk of taking that twelve-story theological seminary.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' This is also thirteen stories, but it's a different building. It's in Manhattan.

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Which street?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Fifty-fifth Street. And this is our temple in London. We have actually three temples there now. This one is in Hertfordshire, called Bhaktivedanta Manor, and then we have one near the British Museum in Bury Place, which is that five-story building. And then we just purchased a restaurant and reading room just off of Oxford St. on Soho St. This is in France. It's a chateau which we have purchased, very nice, with a farm. Very beautiful place. And these are the Deities, Kṛṣṇa-Kāliya, in Fiji. This temple was just opened in Fiji. Kṛṣṇa-Kāliya.

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Kāliya-damana.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Ah, Kāliya-damana.

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' That is in Fiji. Tahole Maharaj apnake abar ei to Krishner iccha hole dekha hobe. (So Mahārāja, if Kṛṣṇa desires we will meet again.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Prasada peye jan. (Please take prasadam.) (discussions between devotees) Ei khane ene dao. Choto ekta table bhitore ene dao, pidhi ta. (To Bon Maharaj) Apni . . . (indistinct) . . . pan. (Bring it here. Bring a small table, like that wooden board. (To Bon Mahārāja) Please . . . (indistinct) . . . have it.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda? Bolchilam, prasad nite ekhane ektu oshubidhe hote pare, shomosto puri-turi ache toh. Shob thik moton hoye uthbe na. (I was thinking that it may be a little difficult to take prasadam here, all the puris and other items are there. It can't be properly served here.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Accha, toh niye jao. (Okay, then take him there.)

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Shunun, apni kore amake diye din, garitei diye din. Okhane amara bhakta . . . (indistinct) . . . amra shokolei pey ni. (Listen, just pack it and give it to me in the car itself. My followers are there . . . (indistinct) . . . we can all have it.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Oh, accha. (Okay.)

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Apni shondhe aratir shomoye dorkar peye neben phone kore. (During evening ''arati'', you can take it back with a phone call.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Oh, accha. (Fine.)

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Mane, ami shonge niye jai prasad. Apnar jokhoni khobor deben, tokhoni ami ashbo. Majhe ek din eshechilam. Babaji tokhon eshe bollen je uni ekhon ghumocchen. Ami bollam tahole ekhon disturb korben na. Ara apni age, majhe ekbar khobor diyechilen ashrame, tokhon ami chilam na. Bombay chilam. Ar eshe khobor pelam. (pause) Tahole uthi Maharaj. (I will carry the ''prasadam'' with me. Whenever you inform me, I will come to meet you. I came here a few days ago. Babaji told me that you are asleep so I told not to disturb you. And you had called for me sometime back but I was not in the ashram. I was in Bombay. When I came back, I got the news. (pause) So, kindly give me your leave Mahārāja.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ha, dandavat. (Yes, obeisances.)

'''Bon Mahārāja:''' Dandavat. Tahole Maharaj, dandavat. Abar kokhono apnar mone pore, khobor dile ami shonge-shonge . . . ami ekhane ashi jai. Eshe jabo. (Obeisances Mahārāja. If you remember me again some day, just send a word and I will immediately come . . . I visit here regularly. I will definitely come.)

'''Shanta:''' Ami Shanta. Amar ektu apnar charan dhuli newar icche. (indistinct) . . . ektu charaner dhuli ni. (I am Shanta. It is my desire to take the dust from your feet . . . (indistinct) . . . let me take the dust from your feet.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ei okhan theke nen. Dada bhalo ache? Haa? (Okay, take it from there. How is your elder brother? Yes?)

'''Devotee:''' Ki bolchen prabhu? (Excuse me prabhu, what are you saying?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Shanta baba ke bolchi. Dada bhalo ache? (I am speaking to Shanta. How is your elder brother?)

'''Shanta:''' Ha bhalo ache. (Yes, they are fine.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Chele meyera kemon? (How are your kids?)

'''Shanta:''' Ha bhalo. (Yes, they are doing good.)
(''kīrtana'')

'''Prabhupāda:''' Khawar moton dao. (Give sufficient ''prasadam''.)

'''Lady:''' (indistinct Bengali) . . . ami okhan theke khobor ni apnar. (I get news about you from there.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ha ami jani. Bon Maharaj ke bhalo kore dao, shobar jonno. (Yes, I know. Give sufficient quantity for Bon Mahārāja and all his disciples.)

(indistinct discussion among devotees)

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' Pray ponero jon. (Nearly fifteen people.) Prabhupada is asking how many are here.

'''Indian man:''' Devotees ko prasad de dete hai? (Shall we give ''prasadam'' to the devotees?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' Prabhupāda is asking to give ''prasāda'' to all the devotees. (break) (end)

760812 - Conversation E - Tehran

2024-02-07T04:59:01Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"

[[Category:1976 - Conversations]]
[[Category:1976 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1976 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1976-08 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Conversations - Asia]]
[[Category:Conversations - Asia, Iran - Tehran]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - Asia]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - Asia, Iran - Tehran]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Hindi Snippets]]
[[Category:Audio Files 90.01 Minutes or More]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Conversations - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Conversations - by Date|Conversations by Date]], [[:Category:1976 - Conversations|1976]]'''</div>
{{RandomImage}}


<div class="center">
[[Vanipedia:760812b - Conversation - Srila Prabhupada Speaks a Nectar Drop in Tehran|'''  <big>Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this lecture'''</big>]]</div>


<div class="code">760812ED-TEHRAN - August 12, 1976 - 109:44 Minutes</div>

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1976/760812ED-TEHRAN_mono.mp3</mp3player>

'''Nava-yauvana:''' "First we must reach to your standard, then we can become interested in spiritual life." It's an envious position.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Nava-yauvana:''' It's an envious position. On the material platform they are thinking, "You have gotten so much, now you can afford to practice this. We cannot afford such practice."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then it is a luxury, it is not a necessity. Is it not?

'''Nava-yauvana:''' Yes, that's what they are thinking. After the material luxury, then you have this.

'''Prabhupāda:''' But why the Indians, they are not like Americans? You find in India still millions of people will go to the Kumbha-melā with torn cloth. They are not like Americans, riches. So why they take? India is well-known poverty-stricken. So why almost ninety-nine percent people, they are after Kṛṣṇa consciousness naturally? Still they'll go, when there is Kumbha-melā; so many saintly persons are coming. They will come by ''lakhs''. Have you seen it? You have seen Kumbha-melā? You have seen? That is the proof. Not only Kumbha-melā. In Vṛndāvana, just like in our temple, recently it was jam-packed. Why they are coming to Vṛndāvana? Mostly they are coming from villages. Especially during this time at least twenty thousand, fifty thousand men are coming, daily. Still. We held Hare Kṛṣṇa festival in Calcutta, Bombay, Madras. As soon as it is advertised, you'll find fifteen thousand, twenty thousand men come. And if you hold for weeks, for weeks they will come. You have seen? They are not like Americans, rich. They are all poverty-stricken. To the general eyes they are poverty-stricken. Kumbha-melā you'll see, Haridwar, in Vṛndāvana. Or even in big, big cities like Calcutta, Bombay, such festivals are held, people will come by thousands. It is training, culture. (referring to Aniruddha) And this boy is taking three times bath, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is training and culture. And if he is kept in this culture, in future he'll be great saintly person. Then he'll do everything automatically. He will deliver others. It is training.

(pause)

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda? With your permission, we will leave for half an hour to have ''kīrtana'' downstairs, and then we have . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, that's nice.

(Ātreya Ṛṣi explaining in background)

'''Hari-śauri:''' They got one of those movie projectors—the ones in the small suitcase?—with all the films. We were just testing it. They were just testing it downstairs.

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' We were planning to have . . . to show one movie tonight for the guests, that new movie that is made about New Vṛndāvana. When our other guests arrive we will show it at about eight o'clock. Would you like also to see it again, Śrīla Prabhupāda, or should we show it . . .?

'''Prabhupāda:''' I have no objection. Where it will be shown?

'''Hari-śauri:''' They can show it anywhere.

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' Anywhere. We can show it here if you like.

'''Hari-śauri:''' Those little boxes, they also, apart from showing on the screen, they project onto the wall as well, if you want.

'''Nava-yauvana:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda, this is Ali. He was living with us for about four months and chanting sixteen rounds. Then he was taken into . . . the army took him.

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' Little bit of army, little bit of ''māyā''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' A little bit of army took him, plus a little bit of ''māyā''. He's a very sincere, nice boy.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So. Let him go on chanting. Chanting cannot be checked, any position. (to Shahrezad, an Iranian lady) So what is your inquiry further?

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' What is your further inquiry? (speaks Farsi with her)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Our latest Vṛndāvana report is very encouraging. He has used the word "Jam-packed," always people coming. They are selling good number of magazines, books, ''prasādam''. Guesthouse is also filled up. Now we have festival going on nice. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hmm. What is your further inquiry?

'''Shahrezad:''' I'm thinking to ask a question.

(long pause) (break)

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' . . . spiritual masters.

'''Shahrezad:''' There were.

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' There have been very few of them.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Find out this verse: ''manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye''.

'''Harikeśa:'''

:''manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu''
:''kaścid yatati siddhaye''
:''yatatām api siddhānāṁ''
:''kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ''
:([[BG 7.3 (1972)|BG 7.3]])

"Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and of those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Purport.

'''Harikeśa:''' "There are various grades of men, and out of many thousands one may be sufficiently interested in transcendental realization to try to know what is the self, what is the body, and what is the Absolute Truth. Generally, mankind is simply engaged in the animal propensities, namely eating, sleeping, defending and mating, and hardly anyone is interested in transcendental knowledge." (Ātreya Ṛṣi translating in background)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ātreya, when this is going on you cannot talk; then the attention will be diverted. You can later on explain. Go on.

'''Harikeśa:''' "The first six chapters of the ''Gītā'' are meant for those who are interested in transcendental knowledge, in understanding the self, the Superself and the process of realization by ''jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga'' and discrimination of the self from matter. However, Kṛṣṇa can only be known by persons who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Other transcendentalists may achieve impersonal Brahman realization, for this is easier than understanding Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person, but at the same time He is beyond the knowledge of Brahman and Paramātmā. The ''yogīs'' and ''jñānīs'' are confused in their attempts to understand Kṛṣṇa, although the greatest of the impersonalists, Śrīpāda Śaṅkarācārya, has admitted in his ''Gītā'' commentary that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But his followers do not accept Kṛṣṇa as such, for it is very difficult to know Kṛṣṇa, even though one has transcendental realization of impersonal Brahman. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the cause of . . ."

'''Prabhupāda:''' The subject matter itself is difficult. Therefore ordinary persons or a little advanced person cannot understand it. And unless one is fully aware of Kṛṣṇa, one cannot become spiritual master. The subject matter itself is difficult. Therefore you don't find many spiritual masters. Go on.

'''Harikeśa:''' "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the cause of all causes, the primeval Lord Govinda.

:''īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ''
:''sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ''
:''anādir ādir govindaḥ''
:''sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam''
:(BS 5.1)

It is very difficult for the nondevotees to know Him. Although nondevotees declare that the path of ''bhakti'', or devotional service, is very easy, they cannot practice it. If the path of ''bhakti'' is so easy, as the nondevotee class of men proclaim, then why do they take up the difficult path? Actually, the path of ''bhakti'' is not easy. The so-called path of ''bhakti'' practiced by unauthorized persons without knowledge of ''bhakti'' may be easy, but when it is practiced factually, according to the rules and regulations, the speculative scholars and philosophers fall away from the path. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī writes in his ''Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu:''

:''śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-''
:''pañcarātra-vidhiṁ vinā''
:''aikāntikī harer bhaktir''
:''utpātāyaiva kalpate''
:(Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.101)

'Devotional service of the Lord that ignores the authorized Vedic literatures like the ''Upaniṣads, Purāṇas, Nārada Pañcarātra'', etc., is simply an unnecessary disturbance in society.' It is not possible for the Brahman-realized impersonalist or the Paramātmā-realized ''yogī'' to understand Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead as the son of Mother Yaśodā or the charioteer of Arjuna. Even the great demigods are sometimes confused about Kṛṣṇa: ''muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ'' ([[SB 1.1.1|SB 1.1.1]]), ''māṁ tu veda na kaścana'' ([[BG 7.26 (1972)|BG 7.26]]). 'No one knows Me as I am,' the Lord says. And if one does know Him, then ''sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ'' ([[BG 7.19 (1972)|BG 7.19]]), 'Such a great soul is very rare.' Therefore unless one practices devotional service to the Lord, he cannot know Kṛṣṇa as He is (''tattvataḥ''), even though one is a great scholar or philosopher. Only the pure devotees can know something of the inconceivable transcendental qualities in Kṛṣṇa, in the cause of all causes, in His omnipotence and opulence, and in His wealth, fame, strength, beauty, knowledge and renunciation, because Kṛṣṇa is benevolently inclined to His devotees. He is the last word in Brahman realization, and the devotees alone can realize Him as He is. Therefore it is said:

:''ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi''
:''na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ''
:''sevonmukhe hi jihvādau''
:''svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ''
:(Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.234)

'No one can understand Kṛṣṇa as He is by the blunt material senses. But He reveals Himself to the devotee, being pleased with them for their transcendental loving service unto Him.' (Padma Purāṇa)"

'''Prabhupāda:''' (loud chanting from mosques and singing in background) These words—ajam—what is the meaning of this?

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' ''Allah'', "God is great, God is great, God is great." (confers with others) "God is greater than can be ever described. I accept and witness that God is one and there is no other partner, or any . . ."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Competitor.

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' ". . . competitor to Him. I witness that Muhammad is the prophet of God, is the . . ."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Representative.

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' ". . . representative of God. I witness and accept Ali as Muhammad's representative."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Who is Ali?

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' Ali is representative of Muhammad. He is . . .

'''Pradyumna:''' Son of Muhammad. No?

'''Hari-śauri:''' Son-in-law? (background discussion)

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' "Come and glorify God," say ''namaz''. This is an invitation for ''namaz'', glorification of God.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' This ''azan'' is an invitation for glorification of God

'''Prabhupāda:''' Inviting everyone, come.

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' Inviting everyone to come and sing and glorify God.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And glorify.

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' This is said five times a day. (background discussion with guests on this point) Three times a day. (translating from guests' explanation) "Come and be truthful, and remain fortunate, remain truthful, and stick to the right path. Come and join in the best activity, which is praise of the Lord. The highest form of activity, which is praise of the Lord." This is ''azan''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' It is very good.

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' Very nice. Nobody hears it.

'''Prabhupāda:'''

:''yaṁ brahmā varuṇendra rudra marutaḥ stunvanti divyaiḥ stavair''
:''vedaiḥ sāṅga-pada-kramopaniṣadair gāyanti yaṁ sāma-gāḥ''
:''dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yogino''
:''yasyāntaṁ na viduḥ surāsura-gaṇā devāya tasmai namaḥ''
:([[SB 12.13.1|SB 12.13.1]])

The Vedic prayer it is like this. ''Yasyāntaṁ na viduḥ surāsura-gaṇāḥ. Yasya antam'', the glories of the Lord, unlimited. So nobody can go to the limit of His glorification, either the ''sura'' or ''asura'', the demons or the demigods. Nobody can reach. But He's glorified by the demigods, like ''yaṁ brahmā'', Brahmā, Lord Brahmā, Śiva, Varuṇa, the predominating deity of air, fire, Lord Brahmā. Everyone worships Him, ''yaṁ brahmā varuṇendra-rudra stunvanti divyaiḥ stavaiḥ'', by glorified prayers. And ''gāyanti yaṁ sāma-gāḥ''. Vedaiḥ sāṅga-pada-kramopaniṣadaiḥ—Vedaiḥ, by Vedic hymns, by Upaniṣad, by Vedic literature. ''Gāyanti yaṁ sāma-gāḥ''. ''Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ'' ([[SB 12.13.1|SB 12.13.1]]). The ''yogīs'' in meditation try to find out Him within the core of the heart. ''Yasyāntaṁ na viduḥ surāsura-gaṇā devāya tasmai namaḥ''. The same prayer. The difference is the action. Difference is in the action. So far prayer is concerned, God is great, accepted, either by the Christian or the Muhammadan or the Hindus or the followers of Vedic principles. Now "God is great, glorify Him, and that is the business of human life," that they are not taking, practically. That is the defect. And that is to be done. ''Athāto brahma jijñāsā''. Brahma means the great. ''Brhavad brhanantvad iti brahma''. Brahma means the greatest. Now here we get the information God is great. So naturally one should be inquisitive to know how He is great. That is human life. ''Athāto brahma jijñāsā''. Just like if I introduce, "Here is a gentleman, very rich." So naturally next inquiry will be, "How he is rich? What is the position that he is very rich?" These inquiries are natural. If I simply remain satisfied by hearing that he is rich, that is also good. You have got some respect. But if you know how he is rich, to what extent he is rich, then your respect will be increased.

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' Your love also.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. If I understand that he is rich, I may consider, "Well, I have got one thousand dollars, so he may have one hundred thousand dollars," that's all. But if you understand that he has got millions and millions of dollars, then you'll appreciate, "Oh, so rich!" Then your regard for him will increase. That is not being done. Stereotyped, "God is great." How He is great, to what extent He is great, what is His greatness, activities, if you know more and more, then your regard for God will increase. But that they are not doing. Simply officially, "God is great, God is great," finished. No ''jijñāsā'', no inquiry. ''Athāto brahma jijñāsā''. One should be inquisitive. ''Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam'' ([[SB 11.3.21|SB 11.3.21]]). One who has become inquisitive of the ''uttamam'', the most exalted subject matter, he requires a ''guru''. Otherwise, who will answer his inquiries? ''Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ''. If he's not ''jijñāsuḥ'', what is the need of ''guru''? And where is the question of advancement? He must be ''jijñāsuḥ''.

And that is . . . people are not interested. Officially, go to church, go to mosque, go to temple and do something. Then drop it and go to your own business and do whatever you like. No discrimination. They're not serious. (greets guests) Aiye. Not very serious. One who is serious, he'll inquire. Otherwise, the formula is all right, "God is great. There is no more greater than Him." But inquire, "How He is great?" (guests enter) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Oh, thank you very much. Jaya. Therefore society is required, association is required, to inquire. ''Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ'' ([[SB 3.25.25|SB 3.25.25]]). (greets guests) Aiye. There is need of association for discussing how God is great. That is needed—j''ijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam''. Unless one is inquisitive . . . Sharmajī, you can come here. So, that is the . . . simply we should not remain satisfied to understand . . . that is not proper understanding: officially, "God is great." No. Try to inquire how great He is, why He is great. Then your regard for God, your devotion for God will increase. And because we do not inquire how God is great, therefore cheap gods are coming. Any rascal, he is repre . . . "I am God." Because we do not know actually what is God. But if you inquire about God, if you go through the ''śāstras'', as it is stated in the ''Brahma-saṁhitā'':

:''yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya''
:''jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ''
:''viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā-viśeṣo''
:''govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi''
:(BS 5.48)

''Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya:'' the breathing period. We have got idea, breathing period. Within second we are having two, three breathing. So within the breathing period of Mahā-Viṣṇu innumerable universes are coming out. This is greatness. How great is God, it is some idea, that within the breathing period innumerable universes are coming. We cannot conceive of one universe, but we get the information that innumerable universes are coming out during the breathing period. ''Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ'' (BS 5.48). That Mahā-Viṣṇu, ''yasya kalā-viśeṣa'', part and plenary portion, ''govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi''.

So when we speak all these things, they'll take it mythology. And a cheap god comes, we'll accept, "Here is God." This is the position. They do not try to understand that actually God is great, how great He is. That is called ''kūpa-maṇḍūka-nyāya'', Dr. Frog's philosophy. Dr. Frog is within the well, three feet length and breadth. He's thinking, "This is the ultimate reservoir of water." And when he's informed there is Atlantic Ocean, he simply calculates, "All right, this is three feet. It may be six feet or it may be seven feet, all right, come on, ten feet." He's going like that. So God is not like that, within our calculation. In the ''Bhagavad-gītā'' when Kṛṣṇa was speaking about the ''vibhūti-yoga'', He was speaking, "I am this amongst this." Find out this ''vibhūti-yoga'', Twelfth Chapter I think it is.

'''Harikeśa:''' You want the last verse?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, one . . . where it is said: "I am this amongst this," like that.

'''Harikeśa:''' Just the English?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Harikeśa:''' "I am the Self, O Guḍākeśa, seated in the hearts of all creatures. I am the beginning, the middle and the end of all beings."

"Of the ''Ādityas'' I am Viṣṇu, of lights I am the radiant sun. I am Marīci of the ''Maruts'', and among the stars I am the moon."

"Of the ''Vedas'' I am the ''Sāma-veda''; of the demigods I am Indra; of the senses I am the mind; and in living beings I am the living force, knowledge."

"Of all the ''Rudras'' I am Lord Śiva; of the ''Yakṣas'' and ''Rākṣasas'' I am the lord of wealth (Kuvera); of the ''Vasus'' I am fire (Agni); and of the mountains I am Meru."

"Of priests, O Arjuna, know Me to be the chief, Bṛhaspati, the lord of devotion. Of generals I am Skanda, the lord of war; and of bodies of water I am the ocean."

"Of the great sages I am Bhṛgu; of vibrations I am the transcendental ''oṁ''. Of sacrifices I am the chanting of the holy names (''japa''), and of immovable things I am the Himalayas."

"Of all trees I am the holy fig tree, and amongst sages and demigods I am Nārada. Of the singers of the gods (''Gandharvas'') I am Citraratha, and among perfected beings I am the sage Kapila."

"Of horses know Me to be Uccaiḥśravā, who rose out of the ocean, born of the elixir of immortality; of lordly elephants I am Airāvata, and among men I am the monarch."

"Of weapons I am the thunderbolt; among cows I am the ''surabhi'', givers of abundant milk. Of procreators I am Kandarpa, the god of love, and of serpents I am Vāsuki, the chief."

"Of the celestial Nāga snakes I am Ananta; of the aquatic deities I am Varuṇa. Of departed ancestors I am Aryamā, and among the dispensers of law I am Yama, the lord of death."

"Among the ''Daitya'' demons I am the devoted Prahlāda; among subduers I am time; among the beasts I am the lion; and among birds I am Garuḍa, the feathered carrier of Viṣṇu."

"Of purifiers I am the wind; of the wielders of weapons I am Rāma; of fishes I am the shark; and of flowing rivers I am the Ganges."

"Of all conditions I am the beginning and the end and also the middle, O Arjuna. Of all sciences I am the spiritual science of the Self, and among logicians I am the conclusive truth."

"Of letters I am the letter A, and among compounds I am the dual word. I am also inexhaustible time, and of creators I am Brahmā, whose manifold faces turn everywhere."

"I am all-devouring death, and I am the generator of all things yet to be. Among women I am fame, fortune, speech, memory, intelligence, faithfulness and patience."

"Of hymns I am the ''Bṛhat-sāma'' sung to the Lord Indra, and of poetry I am the Gāyatrī verse, sung daily by ''brāhmaṇas''. Of months I am November and December, and of seasons I am flower-bearing spring."

"I am also the gambling of cheats, and of the splendid I am the splendor. I am victory, I am adventure, and I am the strength of the strong."

"Of the descendants of Vṛṣṇi I am Vāsudeva, and of the Pāṇḍavas I am Arjuna. Of the sages I am Vyāsa, and among great thinkers I am Uśanā."

"Among punishments I am the rod of chastisement, and of those who seek victory, I am morality. Of secret things I am silence, and of the wise I am wisdom."

"Furthermore, O Arjuna, I am the generating seed of all existences. There is no being—moving or unmoving—that can exist without Me."

"O mighty conqueror of enemies, there is no end of My divine manifestations. What I have spoken to you is but a mere indication of My infinite opulences."

"Know that all beautiful, glorious and mighty creations spring but from a spark of My splendor."

"But what need is there, O Arjuna, for all this detailed knowledge? With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe." ([[BG 10.20 (1972)|BG 10.20-42]])

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's it. This is greatness. So we should not simply be satisfied "God is great." We must try to know how great He is. Then our God consciousness will be fixed up. It's all right?

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' It's very beautiful.

'''Prabhupāda:''' (chuckles) That people are not interested. Only officially chanting "God is great," that's all. Finished. Business finished. You try to understand. ''Athāto brahma jijñāsā''. This is the ''Vedānta-sūtra''. ''Jijñāsā:'' go, inquire, be inquisitive. ''Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam'' ([[SB 11.3.21|SB 11.3.21]]). So one should be inquisitive. That is human life. And as soon as you become inquisitive, you become aware of God more and more, then your devotion increases. That is wanted.

'''Mr. Sahani:''' It is also said that you have a blind faith.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Blind faith?

'''Mr. Sahani:''' You should have a faith in your God. But when you are inquisitive and you keep asking more and more and more, and . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' And who says that you keep blind faith? Who says?

'''Mr. Sahani:''' You should have faith, in God, should have faith.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no. God, it is not blind faith. God is there, you have to accept. It is not blind.

'''Mr. Sahani:''' Means give up, give everything, surrender. You were talking day before yesterday, when we surrender that means we don't ask any question. So when we are inquisitive, then we ask more questions. How do we blend these two things together?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Blind, blind . . . God says that ''idam . . . idaṁ te jñānam ākhyātam?'' ''Guhyam, guhyataraṁ mayā''. Find out this.

'''Harikeśa:''' ''Idaṁ te guhyatamam?''

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Idaṁ te jñānam prakhyātam''. That verse, the other day we discussed? ''Yathecchasi tathā kuru?'' Where is that verse?

'''Pradyumna:''' Eighteenth chapter.

'''Hari-śauri:''' ''Ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyam'' ([[BG 18.68 (1972)|BG 18.68]])?

'''Pradyumna:''' ''Ya idam''.

'''Harikeśa:'''

:''iti te jñānam ākhyātaṁ''
:''guhyād guhyataraṁ mayā''
:''vimṛśyaitad aśeṣeṇa''
:''yathecchasi tathā kuru''
:([[BG 18.63 (1972)|BG 18.63]])

'''Prabhupāda:''' So there is no question of blind faith. Here it is said that, "I have explained to you the knowledge, confidential and most confidential. Now you consider about it, and after due consideration, then do whatever you like." But if you actually appreciate that there is God, here is Kṛṣṇa, so whatever He is saying, it is all right. ''Sarvam etad 'ṛtaṁ manye'' ([[BG 10.14 (1972)|BG 10.14]]). There is no harm even if you accept His word blindly. There is no harm. Otherwise, if you don't like to follow blindly, then consider what is instructed. And then whatever you like, you can do. Both ways are there. But if you have faith in God, "God is saying this, I must do it," that blind faith is as good. Although it is blind faith, it is the fact. Actually it is not blind faith. It is full faith in God. "God is speaking this; I'll accept it." ''Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ''. That is the position of ''mahātmā''. Although such ''mahātmās'' are very rare, but one who accepts this fact that, "God is speaking, so let me accept it without any consideration," that is as good as you accept. If gold is real, something real gold is offered to you, you accept it blindly or by checking it, the result is the same.

'''Mr. Sahani:''' But being inquisitive, again, and accepting it . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no. Inquisitive means one who does not accept that, "Here is a person giving me gold. He's very good man; he'll not cheat me." Then you accept. But if you have no such faith, then you check it. But real gold, either you take in blind faith or by checking, the result is the same. Now it is up to you. If you believe Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead as He says . . . He is the Supreme Person. ''Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya'' ([[BG 7.7 (1972)|BG 7.7]]). That's a fact. But if you don't believe it, then check and consider of our statement, and then accept. Two ways are there. Why people are misled? They do not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. They are taking ''Bhagavad-gītā'' in their own way. So why they should take ''Bhagavad-gītā'' in their own way? That is not good. If you want to speak something better than ''Bhagavad-gītā'', you speak separately. Why you misinterpret ''Bhagavad-gītā''? Our preaching process is that you take ''Bhagavad-gītā's'' instruction, that is perfect, and you'll be happy. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Don't try to interpret it. Don't try to exact some meaning of your choice. No, that is not good. You take it as it is, you'll be benefited. Now if you take it, that it is spoken by ''bhagavān svayam'', then it is blind faith. It may be blind faith, but it is right. If you don't want, then Kṛṣṇa says, ''iti te jñānam prakhyātaṁ guhyād guhyataraṁ mayā.'' Then you check it by your knowledge. ''Yathecchasi tathā kuru'' ([[BG 18.63 (1972)|BG 18.63]]). Both ways you can accept.

Therefore we have to follow ''mahājana''. Our knowledge is always scanty. So ''mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ'' ([[CC Madhya 17.186|CC Madhya 17.186]]). That is the way. ''Tarkaḥ apratiṣṭha''. ''Tarka'', by argument, you'll never come to the conclusion. ''Śrutayor vibhinnam''. There are śāstras for different persons; in different way they are presented. So they appear to be contradictory from one another. Not contradictory; at least, different from one another. So ''śrutayor vibhinnam''. ''Na cāsav ṛṣir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam''. And a great philosopher is not a great philosopher if he does not present a different view. So therefore, the spiritual essence is very confidential. ''Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihita guhyayam''. Therefore we have to follow the ''mahājana'', great personality. That is the system, Vedic system, ''guru-paramparā''. So that ''paramparā'' is explained in the ''Bhagavad-gītā'', ''mahājana''. Kṛṣṇa said ''imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ''. ''Rājarṣi, mahājana. Mahājanas'' are explained also. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja, he's ''mahājana''; Bali Mahārāja, ''mahājana''; Brahmā, ''mahājana''; Nārada, ''mahājana''; Lord Śiva, ''mahājana''. ''Balir vaiyāsakir vayam''. Janaka Mahārāja. So we have to follow them. ''Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ'' ([[CC Madhya 17.186|CC Madhya 17.186]]). That is recommended in the ''Bhagavad-gītā'': ''evaṁ paramparā prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ'' ([[BG 4.2 (1972)|BG 4.2]]). So there is no question of blind faith. If we follow the ''mahājana'', example of the authorities, then our life is success. And ''guru'' means he is ''mahājana'' or follower of ''mahājana''.

So we have to select the ''mahājana'' process. According to our process, we follow the Brahma-sampradāya. And Brahmā is one of the ''mahājanas''. So Brahmā has his disciplic succession, ''paramparā''. Brahmā's disciple is Nārada, Nārada's disciple is Vyāsadeva, and Vyāsadeva's disciple is Śukadeva Gosvāmī. In this way, we come to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu's disciples, the six Gosvāmīs. Then others, then our Guru Mahārāja. But the same thing we are speaking. ''Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ'' ([[CC Madhya 17.186|CC Madhya 17.186]]). We are not manufacturing anything. That is the ''guru-paramparā'' system. And if we follow strictly the line of ''mahājana'', then there is no question of mistake. It is not blind faith. The superiors are following, and we are also following. Of course, there are books, there are everything. ''Śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-pañcarātra-vidhi'' (Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.101). Everything is there. So there is no question of being mistaken. The guide is there, the spiritual master is there. So there is no difficulty. (guest enters) Hare Kṛṣṇa. ''Aiye. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ'' ([[CC Madhya 17.186|CC Madhya 17.186]]). That is the best way: follow the ''mahājana''. Unfortunately, the ''mahājanas'' . . . without following ''mahājana'', everyone is becoming ''mahājana'' in his own way. And that is being supported, that you manufacture your own way of spiritual progress, that is all right. That is dangerous. That is dangerous. And that is going on now. You can manufacture in your own way. And there are thousands who are coming, manufacturing their own way and spoiling the whole thing. That is the . . . otherwise there is no difficulty, ''mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ''.

We are therefore requesting people that don't be misled. Here is the greatest ''mahājana'', Kṛṣṇa Himself. You follow His instruction. It is very easy, there is no complication. This is our propaganda. But we don't make any compromise. Why shall I make compromise? If we are presenting the right thing, why shall I make compromise with something wrong? Boliye Sharmaji. (Sharmaji, what do you say?) If we are confident that we are presenting the right thing, why shall I make compromise with the wrong thing? Mataji, aap kuch nai bolte hain kya baat hain? (So mātāji, what is your opinion? You are not saying anything.) No, you are intelligent. You can say if I am saying something wrong. Our culture has been spoiled by interpreting wrongly Kṛṣṇa's words. ''Bhārata-bhūmi, puṇya-bhūmi'', still, thousands and millions are there. If there is Kumbha-melā, millions of men are coming. Whenever we hold some Kṛṣṇa consciousness meeting, daily, twenty thousand, fifteen thousand, thirty thousand men come. The spirit is there. Unfortunately, that is being artificially depressed. But it cannot be done. The ''puṇya-bhūmi, bhārata-bhūmi'', it will go on. But the unfortunate thing is that the clear thing is there, and that is being misinterpreted and people are misled. That is the difficulty. (break)

'''Mātāji:''' Jiv ko is baat ka gyan ho jaye ki spiritual life lead karke mujhe ye laav hoga tabhi wo material life ko churne ko taiyar hoga. (If the living entity understands what he can gain by practising spirituality, then only he can give up material life.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' But the living entity has become so foolish, that he does not understand how he can be benefited. Therefore he is not even interested to know.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Just like ''Bhagavad-gītā'', Woh toh itna murkh hogaya ki wo jantahi nahi uska kis tarah se laav hoga, or natoh wo janne ke liye taiyar hain. Jaise Bhagavad-gita me batata hain. (He is so stupid that he doesn't know how he will be benefited, and neither is he ready to know. As it is stated in ''Bhagavad-gītā'',) ''manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye'' ([[BG 7.3 (1972)|BG 7.3]]). So they are not interested. They are simply interested "Eat, drink, be merry and enjoy." Then? You were telling one, the other day that, "First of all, let us become rich like Americans, then we shall talk of Kṛṣṇa." When they go to preach about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the people say that, "We shall think of Kṛṣṇa later on." In India also they say like that, that "We are now poverty-stricken. Let us first of all become rich, and then we shall think of Kṛṣṇa." They say like that. They are not interested. They think to become rich is more than understanding Kṛṣṇa. That is the position. Therefore they are not interested. They say frankly that, "We are not interested. Why do you bother us?" Just see. They say: "Why do you bother us? Why do you come here to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" How much difficult it is you can just understand. They are not ready to hear about it, and our leaders say: "All the ''śāstras'', now throw away in the water."

'''Mrs. Patel:''' Do you think the deep-rooted Indian culture and religion will ever have a sort of a degradation, or will it continue?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Continue, because if you remain like animals, it will continue. If you become human being actually, then it will stop. But we want to continue as animals. That is the present position. The present civilization is very strong animal platform.

:''yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke''
:''sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ''
:''yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij''
:''janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ''
:([[SB 10.84.13|SB 10.84.13]])

''Go-khara''. ''Go-khara'' means animal. ''Go'' means cow, ''khara'' means ass. So ''yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke''. Anyone who is thinking that, "I am this body composed of ''kapha-pitta-vāyu''," ''sa eva go-kharaḥ'', "he's animal." Now analyze everyone. Everyone is thinking that, "I am this body." "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this," "I am that," all in the bodily concept of life. So if you continue this bodily concept of life, then you remain animal. And if you take Kṛṣṇa's instruction, Kṛṣṇa's first instruction is . . . find out this verse:

:''aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ''
:''prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase''
:''gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca''
:''nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ''
:([[BG 2.11 (1972)|BG 2.11]])

This is ''paṇḍita''. Who does not think seriously about this body, he is ''paṇḍita''. And everyone is thinking seriously about this body, then who is paṇḍita? All ''sa eva go-kharaḥ'' ([[SB 10.84.13|SB 10.84.13]]), all cows and asses. If you keep yourselves as cows and asses, then where is civilization? What is that called? Hmm? Find out this verse.

'''Harikeśa:'''

:''śrī bhagavān uvāca''
:''aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ''
:''prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase''
:''gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca''
:''nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ''
:([[BG 2.11 (1972)|BG 2.11]])

"The Blessed Lord said: While speaking learned words, you are mourning for what is not worthy of grief. Those who are wise lament neither for the living nor the dead."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Purport.

'''Harikeśa:''' "The Lord at once took the position of the teacher and chastised the student, calling him, indirectly, a fool. The Lord said, 'You are talking like a learned man, but you do not know that one who is learned—one who knows what is body and what is soul—does not lament for any stage of the body, neither in the living nor in the dead condition.' As it will be explained in later chapters, it will be clear that knowledge means to know matter and spirit and the controller of both. Arjuna argued that religious principles should be given more importance than politics or sociology, but he did not know that knowledge of matter, soul and the Supreme is even more important than religious formularies. And, because he was lacking in that knowledge, he should not have posed himself as a very learned man."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. He was posing himself as the body. So he should not consider himself as a learned man. ''Nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ.'' Then?

'''Harikeśa:''' "As he did not happen to be a very learned man, he was consequently lamenting for something which was unworthy of lamentation. The body is born and is destined to be vanquished today or tomorrow; therefore the body is not as important as the soul. One who knows this is actually learned, and for him there is no cause of lamentation, regardless of the condition of the material body."

'''Prabhupāda:''' The people are not aware of these things, neither they are interested to know that the soul is more important than the body. This is the beginning of ''Bhagavad-gītā''. Still, they are placing themselves as learned scholars in ''Bhagavad-gītā'', but sticking to the body. And one who is sticking to the bodily concept of life, he's no better than sa eva go-kharaḥ ([[SB 10.84.13|SB 10.84.13]]). The whole civilization is going on this understanding of body. And then Kṛṣṇa begins that instruction, ''dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ'' ([[BG 2.13 (1972)|BG 2.13]]). This, that is very vividly explained, that the soul is important because it is eternal, ''na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre'' ([[BG 2.20 (1972)|BG 2.20]]). Don't think by the end of the body the soul is also ended. It will continue, and it accepts another body, ''tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati'' ([[BG 2.13 (1972)|BG 2.13]]). So who is caring for this knowledge? Suppose I have got to . . . it is a fact, we have to change this body. But what body I am going to change, who is considering? He's thinking of this body only, but he has to change. The science is there, but nobody is caring to know it. And still, they are proud of their education. And Kṛṣṇa condemns: ''nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ.''

So they are keeping themselves on the bodily concept of life and posing themselves as ''paṇḍita''. This is going on. A person identifying himself with the body, he's ''go-kharaḥ'', and he's posing himself as ''paṇḍita''. This is the position. The whole education is to realize that, "I am not this body, I am soul," ''ahaṁ brahmāsmi''. ''Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā'' ([[BG 18.54 (1972)|BG 18.54]]). Then he'll be happy. ''Na śocati na kāṅkṣati''. ''Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām''. Everything is there. You cannot become a learned scholar or learned leader from the platform of ''go-kharaḥ''. That is the defect. ''Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ'' ([[BG 2.13 (1972)|BG 2.13]]): this is the first instruction. Who is thinking that, "What next body I'm going to accept?" Nobody's interested. They say after finishing this body everything is finished. And ''Bhagavad-gītā'' says, ''na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre'' ([[BG 2.20 (1972)|BG 2.20]]). Then what kind of ''paṇḍita'' he is? ''Bhagavad-gītā'' says, ''na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre'', ''nityam . . . ''na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit''. The soul is immortal. ''Antavanta ime dehāḥ:'' the ''śarīra'' is ''antavat'', perishable. ''Nityasyoktāḥ śarīrinaḥ''. Who is considering? If I am eternal, if I am not going to die even after the annihilation of the body, then the next question would be ''jijñāsuḥ''. Then what will be my next position? What kind of body I am going to get? That is intelligent. But nobody has this intelligence, and he's passing as ''paṇḍita''. Big, big professor, they'll say: "Swāmījī, after death, everything is finished." I went to Moscow. There was a big professor, Kotovsky, Indology professor. So we had some talks. So he does not believe transmigration of the soul, and he's a learned scholar. And everywhere you find that, the same atheistic philosophy.

:''ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet''
:''yāvāj jivet sukhaṁ jivet''
:''bhasmi bhūtasya dehasya''
:''kutaḥ punar agamano bhavet''
:(Cārvāka Muni)

So enjoy life. So "I have no money." ''Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet''. "Beg, borrow, steal, bring ''ghee'', and prepare nice preparation and enjoy." ''Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet, yāvāj jivet sukhaṁ jivet''. So long you live, enjoy. "I'll become a debtor. Then I'll act sinfully." Ah, ''bhasmi bhūtasya dehasya kutaḥ punar agamano bhavet:'' your body will be burnt and everything finished. This philosophy is going on.

But Kṛṣṇa says, ''na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre'' ([[BG 2.20 (1972)|BG 2.20]]). The body is burned, don't think that you are burned. You are living. ''Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ'' ([[BG 2.13 (1972)|BG 2.13]]). Who is caring for that? Nobody cares. And still they are passing as ''paṇḍita'', philosopher, scientist. This is the misfortune of the present civilization. A person who is equal to ''go-kharaḥ'', he is the teacher, he is the philosopher, he is leader.

:''andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās''
:''te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ''
:''na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ''
:''durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ''
:([[SB 7.5.31|SB 7.5.31]])

People are running like anything in the street, ''bahir-artha-māninaḥ''. They are thinking that this civilization, having nice roads and streets and number of cars and running here and there, this is . . . ''bahir-artha-māninaḥ''. They do not know what is the goal of life. And if you ask the goal of life, "What is the goal of life?" "After death everything is finished," that's all. "Let me enjoy." ''Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet''. Beg borrow, steal, bring money and enjoy. ''Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ'' ([[BG 2.13 (1972)|BG 2.13]]). If by his activities he's going to be a lower animal next life, then what is the value of his so much business and activities? Therefore they do not believe in next life. Close the eyes. Never mind, where is the danger in front.

'''Mrs. Patel:''' It is convenient for them to.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Not convenient—foolishness. A rabbit, when there is some big animals, he closes his eyes. He thinks, "There is no danger." That does not mean he's out of danger. He'll be eaten up. So simply by concocting that there is no life after death, you'll not be escaped. In Bhagavad-gītā informs, ''tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ.'' There is no need of studying any literature, Vedic literature. ''Dehāntara-prāptiḥ'', Kṛṣṇa is giving evidence. ''Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā'' ([[BG 2.13 (1972)|BG 2.13]]). This ''dehāntara-prāptiḥ'', I was not this body in the beginning, I was a very jubilant child like this. Where is that body? That body is not existing. It is different body, ''dehāntara-prāptiḥ''. So why they do not believe ''dehāntara-prāptiḥ''? I am the same soul who possessed a child's body, young man's body, boy's body. Now I have got the old man's body. So dehāntara is there, and I am still. I remember, I was a child, I was lying down on the lap of my elder sister. I remember still. But where is that body? It is different body. This is ''dehāntara-prāptiḥ''. I am the same man who was lying down on the lap of my elder sister, and now I am differently situated. The body has changed. This is the proof. Kṛṣṇa is giving you this proof, ''tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ'' ([[BG 2.13 (1972)|BG 2.13]]).

So if we accept authority of Kṛṣṇa and His statement, so reasonable and so scientific, then our life is successful. And if we don't care for them, let us do our business. But nature will not excuse. ''Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā'' ([[BG 3.27 (1972)|BG 3.27]]). Simply our false ''ahaṅkāra'', egotism: "Ah, I don't care." You may do that, but prakṛti will take action. Because you are under the control of the nature's law, uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. ''Uru-dāmni baddhāḥ''. ''Uru'' means very hard, tight. Or ''uru'' means the thigh. And ''dāmni'', by ropes, ''baddha''. We cannot transgress the laws of nature. If we willfully transgress, we can do that, but we will have to suffer. If you touch fire, it will burn. It will not excuse that, "Here is a child, he did not know." No excuse. Either a child or elderly, you have touched fire, then you must be burned. This is nature's law. Very strict. ''Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā'' ([[BG 7.14 (1972)|BG 7.14]]). ''Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu'' ([[BG 13.22 (1972)|BG 13.22]]). Why you have got different bodies? ''Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya''. As we have associated with the modes of material nature, we have got different types of bodies. Otherwise, why there are so many varieties of forms? The forms are different, but within the form, the soul is one.

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda, may we show that movie now?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh? Yes. Which side you'll show? (background discussion)

'''Prabhupāda:''' This side?

'''Dayānanda:''' I want to show it just here, Prabhupāda, then everyone can sit here on the inside of the room so you can see.

'''Prabhupāda:''' All right. That's nice. (someone offers something to eat) What is that? Again something?

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' Yes. This is better. Can I skin them for you?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no.

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' (background discussion as devotees set up) (break)

'''Mr. Sahani:''' When this temple will be . . . (indistinct) . . .?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Other? No?

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' Would you like to see another, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, why not? (laughter)

'''Harikeśa:''' "As Brilliant As the Sun"?

(discussion about setting up next film)

'''Harikeśa:''' Yadubara's becoming simply first class.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Who is?

'''Harikeśa:''' This film is simply first class. Super first class.

'''Prabhupāda:''' (referring to ''prasādam'') You take this also. (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' This is due to American boy's cooperation.

'''Mr. Sahani:''' Yes, very nice. A great achievement.

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' Due to Śrīla Prabhupāda's mercy.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And now we are trying Middle East with the cooperation of Iranians.

'''Mr. Sahani:''' I'm sure next year there'll be a film on Iran. When are you going to make the public announcement for this temple?

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' It is announced. Śrīla Prabhupāda's visit was sufficient.

'''Prabhupāda:''' It is announced by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, ''pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma'' (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126): as many towns and villages are there on the surface of the globe, this movement will go on. ''Sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma''. This will go on. It is already predicted by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

'''Mr. Sahani:''' Patel jee aaye hain. Vah bahut hee nek bhakt hai. (Mr. Patel has come. He is very pious devotee.) You've not seen today, the temple building has been taken over.

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' Mr. Patel has donated over $20,000 for the purchase of that temple. Mr. and Mrs. Patel.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Sannimitan bharam tyaga vinasena ate sati''. Money will be spent, and if it is spent for good cause, that is the proper utilization. ''Sannimitan bharam tyaga vinasena ate sati''.

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' All of the community people here in this room have donated as much as they can. They have helped us.

'''Prabhupāda:''' In America we have got the facility for selling books. Contribution there is, but our main source of income by selling books. We are selling books to the extent of sixty . . .?

'''Harikeśa:''' Sixty thousand dollars.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sixty thousand dollars daily. Sixty thousand dollars daily, America and Europe. Europe we have got other language publication. Have you got the German?

'''Jñānagamya:''' We had French ''Bhagavad-gītā'' here, Prabhupāda, but it was sold. We had one German ''Bhagavad-gītā'', too.

'''Prabhupāda:''' We have published Chinese ''Bhagavad-gītā''. Bring it. It is translated by one Chinese student.

(indistinct background comments)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Give it to Mr . . .

'''Mrs. Patel:''' I can read Japanese, but not Chinese.

'''Prabhupāda:''' You know Japanese?

'''Mrs. Patel:''' I was brought up there.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh.

'''Mrs. Patel:''' There was . . . was just as good as born there. There was just six months baby when I was taken there.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Tokyo?

'''Mrs. Patel:''' Kobe.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, Kobe. Oh, in Kobe there are many Indians

'''Mrs. Patel:''' Many. Eleven years I stayed.

'''Prabhupāda:''' I have been there. Many good Indian population. There is a Indian association also. I have been there.

'''Mrs. Patel:''' Yes.

'''Jñānagamya:''' You are the greatest teacher in recorded history, Prabhupāda, because your movement is so well founded in these books, more so than any religious teacher—Muhammad, Buddha, Jesus Christ. Your movement is perfectly founded even during your own lifetime. All your books are perfectly edited by you. It is truly Lord Caitanya's mercy.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Books means solid ground. What we want to preach, it is recorded, not any concocted ideas. There is direction by Rūpa Gosvāmī:

:''śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-''
:''pañcarātra-vidhiṁ vinā''
:''aikāntikī harer bhaktir''
:''utpātāyaiva kalpate''
:(Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.101)

Without the support of ''śruti'', ''smṛti'', ''purāṇa'', any religious movement for understanding God is simply disturbance—''utpātāyaiva kalpate''. ''Utpāt''. That is the . . . it is the version given by . . . even Kṛṣṇa, He's God Himself, He's speaking, He's giving reference to the ''Vedānta-sūtra'': ''brahma-sūtra-padaiś caiva hetumadbhir viniścitaiḥ'' ([[BG 13.5 (1972)|BG 13.5]]). So without reference to the Vedic literature, anything you speak, it has no ground. ''Śruti-pramāṇa'', this is Vedic culture. ''Śruti-pramāṇa''. It must be supported by ''śruti''. In ''Caitanya-caritāmṛta'' you'll find whenever Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, He gives immediately Vedic evidence, ''śruti-pramāṇa''. Then it is solid. So we are trying to present this movement with ''śruti-pramāṇa''. Our Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam will be finished in sixty volumes, and ''Caitanya-caritāmṛta'' is already finished in seventeen volumes. So altogether at least we'll have hundred volumes of books, small and big, to give ''śruti-pramāṇa''. This is the idea.

(pause)

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda, Mrs. Patel has prepared some ''khicuṛi''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Khicuṛi''? Where it is?

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' It's here.

'''Prabhupāda:''' I'll take. How many children? You have children?

'''Mrs. Patel:''' Two sons and one daughter.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Two sons.

'''Mrs. Patel:''' And one daughter. They have gone to India for their holidays now. They wanted to go to India.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So, give everyone little, little ''prasāda''.

'''Mr. Sahani:''' What time is your flight tomorrow?

'''Hari-śauri:''' Twelve o'clock.

'''Mr. Sahani:''' You're going to Bombay?

'''Hari-śauri:''' Bombay, yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' You have seen our Bombay temple?

'''Mr. Sahani:''' Not yet.

'''Prabhupāda:''' There we are spending about one ''crore'' of rupees.

'''Mr. Patel:''' We have seen this Vṛndāvana temple. That's very good.

'''Prabhupāda:''' There we have spent more than fifty ''lakhs''.

'''Mr. Sahani:''' This New Vṛndāvana temple will be the main center of the Society, where everybody should . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No. New Vṛndāvana is one of the centers. We have got 103 centers. In Australia also we have got, Melbourne.

'''Hari-śauri:''' (aside) Shouldn't we all eat downstairs? Should we have everyone take ''prasādam'' downstairs?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, here.

'''Hari-śauri:''' You want? What would you like?

'''Prabhupāda:''' What is that?

'''Hari-śauri:''' If you wanted something?

(indistinct discussion) (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . Kṛṣṇa practically showing how to live Vṛndāvana life. In Vṛndāvana nobody knows Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Nobody knows. But their love for Śrī Kṛṣṇa is intense. That is wanted. ''Premā pumartho mahān''. That is required. You simply become an intense lover of Kṛṣṇa, ''bās'', your life is successful. It doesn't require any education or . . . that is the Vṛndāvana residents' life. They did not know what Kṛṣṇa is. But it is very loving center, of all the residents of Vṛndāvana. When Kṛṣṇa's wonderful activities are discussed, Nanda Mahārāja's friend would suggest, "Nanda Mahārāja, your son is wonderful. He must be some demigod. He has come to live with us." They did not know that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord.

(long pause)

'''Prabhupāda:''' How far it is, Afghanistan, from here?

'''Mr. Sahani:''' Very near. Actually, it's only one and a half hours.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Only? By car?

'''Mr. Sahani:''' No, no, by air.

'''Prabhupāda:''' By air.

'''Mr. Sahani:''' It's about, less than two thousand kilometers. Border is even nearer, but Kabul is less than two thousand kilometers.

'''Prabhupāda:''' One Afghan gentleman came here. In Afghanistan there are many domiciled Hindus.

'''Mr. Sahani:''' Yes. Originally we used to live in Peshawar, and they used to work and do business in Kabul and they lived in Kabul, but then they stayed on there and became Afghans.

'''Prabhupāda:''' After Pakistan. They left Peshawar and went to . . .

'''Mr. Sahani:''' No, they were living there, because there was no passport, there was no need of visa, you could anytime come and go. But after independence of Afghanistan, at the same time, they made border, and a country of their own, and then these people stayed on this side, and they became Afghans. There are about, oh, six thousand, five, six thousand.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Homes.

'''Mr. Sahani:''' No, five, six thousand people who are Hindus but have Afghan passports. They have got a beautiful temple there.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Ācchā''.

'''Mr. Sahani:''' Oh, yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' In Kabul.

'''Mr. Sahani:''' Yes, beautiful temple, a ''gurudwara'', and there are many Sikhs also there.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, why not a beautiful temple here?

'''Mr. Sahani:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Is there any objection?

'''Mr. Sahani:''' No objection.

'''Mrs. Patel:''' Of course not. Because there's already ''gurukula-dwara'' here. There shouldn't be any.

'''Mr. Sahani:''' They have no objection, there's no restriction from the government.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So make a nice temple.

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' First we need the land.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Take that land that you showed me.

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' Yes, we need a piece of that.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Why piece? Take a big land. Make something gorgeous. Kṛṣṇa is not poor. Although He likes to live in the village, but He is Dvārakādhīśa also.

'''Mr. Patel:''' It should be big land for the . . . (indistinct)

'''Mr. Sahani:''' Here the land prices are five times what they are in America.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Never mind. Eh?

'''Mr. Sahani:''' Five times what they are in New York.

'''Prabhupāda:''' There?

'''Mr. Sahani:''' The price of land here in Tehran is five times what it is in New York.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Ācchā?'' (laughter) Five times?

'''Mrs. Sahani:''' Highest, almost highest in the world, next to probably Tokyo.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Why?

'''Mr. Sahani:''' The house which you have seen today is worth two ''lakhs'' of dollars. In two ''lakhs'' of dollars you can have palace in America.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No . . .

'''Mr. Sahani:''' But two lakhs here, you have to have all two ''lakhs'' completely in your hand before you can step into this house. Over there with two ''lakhs'' you step into the house, a palace of one million dollars.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Our Los Angeles temple, what we paid? Dayānanda, you know?

'''Dayānanda:''' It was two twenty-five, I think. 225,000 dollars.

'''Prabhupāda:''' 225,000.

'''Dayānanda:''' 225,000.

'''Mr. Sahani:''' 225,000. But it must be a gorgeous place. Beautiful. Huge.

'''Mr. Patel:''' Land must be very large also.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, yes.

'''Mr. Sahani:''' And what was the down payment for the . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' I paid fifty thousand.

'''Mr. Sahani:''' Fifty thousand. Here the down payment means the total payment. You have to pay everything.

'''Mr. Patel:''' And land is so small, must be very small.

'''Mr. Sahani:''' Land is only 260 . . . 226 meters. (background comments) We expect that in one or two years' time the prices of land will come back to normal, or at least there will be some place available out of town at a reasonable price. When that happens, I think . . .

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' I don't think that will happen.

'''Mr. Patel:''' No, it won't happen. Price will never become down. It's staying fifteen years. (indistinct comments among guests)

'''Mr. Sahani:''' Now, you know, people are taking the advantage. One who is selling now, he's going to America. He says, "Let me collect this two ''lakhs'' of dollars, go and buy in America."

'''Mr. Patel:''' America is so cheap.

'''Prabhupāda:''' They, in America, they immigration?

'''Mr. Sahani:''' He must have taken immigration. And then he is going to America. His son and daughter must be there. All Iranians have daughters and sons in America or Europe. So . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' What is the reason?

'''Mr. Sahani:''' Reason is because from the last fifteen years the education was a big problem here. And the government needed people to get educated. So they gave lot of facilities that people should send their children out to get educated.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Foreign education.

'''Mr. Sahani:''' Yes. So everybody who could have some money, if he could afford it, he sent his children to America, London, Paris, Germany. Berne even, Switzerland. But they are full in Germany, they are full in London, they are full in America. They are the four places where everybody . . . in London you walk everywhere on the street and you can hear . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' (guest leaving) Oh, you are going? Thank you very much. ''Utsāhān dhairyāt'' . . . Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

'''Nava-yauvana:''' So we are here. If we work hard and try to please Kṛṣṇa, then there will get a temple.

'''Mr. Sahani:''' Yes.

'''Nava-yauvana:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda arrived in New York with only . . . eight dollars? Forty dollars? How many dollars you had when you arrived in New York?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Seven dollars.

'''Nava-yauvana:''' Seven dollars.

'''Dayānanda:''' I think you got that from selling ''Bhāgavatams''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, that extra. I brought from India seven dollars. At that time the exchange was four rupees, eight annas. So they would not allow to take more than forty rupees. That is . . . (indistinct) . . . so I wanted to sell one set of books to the captain, Mr. Pandiya. So he gave me twenty dollars in exchange of three books. (end)

771028 - Conversation A - Vrndavana

2024-02-07T04:59:00Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"

760503 - Conversation - Fiji

2024-02-07T04:58:57Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"

[[Category:1976 - Conversations]]
[[Category:1976 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1976 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1976-05 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Conversations - Australasia]]
[[Category:Conversations - Australasia, Fiji]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - Australasia]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - Australasia, Fiji]]
[[Category:1976 - New Audio - Released in November 2013]]
[[Category:Audio Files 10.01 to 20.00 Minutes]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Bengali Snippets]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Conversations - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Conversations - by Date|Conversations by Date]], [[:Category:1976 - Conversations|1976]]'''</div>
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<div class="center">
[[Vanipedia:760427b - Lecture - Srila Prabhupada Speaks a Nectar Drop in Auckland|'''  <big>Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this lecture'''</big>]]</div>


<div class="code">760503R1-FIJI - May 03, 1976 - 14.16 Minutes</div>

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1976/760503R1-FIJI_mono.mp3</mp3player>

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . they used to discover, whole method is finished.

'''Hari-śauri:''' Oh, yeah. During the war.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

'''Hari-śauri:''' Yes. So sinful means punishment . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Our point is that we are going to live in the future. So if, becoming modern, we forget our future, then what is the use of becoming modernized? Better remain primitive. The business is that in future also we shall exist. If we do not know how we shall exist—either I shall exist as a cat, as a dog or a tree or a demigod or as associate of Kṛṣṇa . . . if I do not know . . . on account of being modernized, if I remain in darkness about my future, so it is better to remain primitive. What is the use of becoming modernized and forget myself and my future? Becoming modernized, if I become dog in future, so where is the use of modernized? Real business is that I shall take care of my future, especially in the human form of body. Cats and dogs, they do not know about future. If I know there is future, I have a future . . . this is also said by Kṛṣṇa: ''tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ'' ([[BG 2.13 (1972)|BG 2.13]]): "In future." Not this body, another body. So is it not my first business, to prepare what is my future body? That is my first business? Or to drink RC (Royal Crown cola) my first business? (laughter) Just see, by drinking RC if I, next life I become a dog, then what is the use of modernized life? And if we, by remaining in primitive state, we can produce Vyāsadeva, oh, it is better. But the fools have no sense. Suppose if I go to some place for some business, and going there, to select my hotel, which hotel I shall enter, I remain busy to find out the hotel and I forget the business for which I have gone there, then am I not madman?

The human life is meant for deciding his future. If we do not care for the future, and if I want to become modernized from primitive life, is that very good inclination? Real business forgotten, but I am busy with modernized life. That example I give sometimes, śajte śajte dol phurolo, mane (The ''Holi'' fair was over while she kept dressing means,) that one has to go to see a fair on account of ''Dol yatra'' (Festival of colors.) So women, they generally dress themself very nicely. So the woman said to his friend that, "Let me dress." So dressing, dressing, dressing. In the meantime, the fair finished. So the modern civilization is like that . . . śajte śajte dol phurolo. (The ''Holi'' fair was over while she kept dressing.) I have to go to see the fair, but I became so much attentive in dressing that in the meantime news came, "The fair is finished." That is our civilization. A human life is meant for preparing for the next life. That is sensible. But I am so much busy in manufacturing things for modernized life—RC, TC, PC and so on, so on.

In future, at the time of death, I begin to bark and I think, "Oh . . ." And nature will say: "Alright, come on." "No, no, I'm not going to . . ." No, why not? You have become modernized, barking like dog. So you bark. Who will check that? ''Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā'' . . . ([[BG 7.14 (1972)|BG 7.14]]). ''Māyā'' will take consideration, "What you have made yourself, a dog or god?" That she will take account. If you have made yourself a dog, "Just come on, become a dog." If you have made yourself as god, then "Come on, you'll be demigod." That is for everything. Otherwise why there are varieties? There is dog life and there is demigod life, Indra life. It is not one-sided. ''Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ'' ([[BG 2.13 (1972)|BG 2.13]]), it is not one-sided. You have to change your body. And there are varieties of life, so it is up to you what kind of body you have got. You can change your body up to the point of becoming associate of Kṛṣṇa. ''Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām'' ([[BG 9.25 (1972)|BG 9.25]]). ''Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma'' . . . ([[BG 15.6 (1972)|BG 15.6]]). These informations are there. So if you have to prepare for the next life, why not go back to home, back to Godhead? ''Yad gatvā na nivartante''. This is intelligent? Or to become modernized and become a dog next life. Which is intelligent? The ''śāstra'' says: "No, this is intelligent." What? ''Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvam'' ([[SB 5.5.1|SB 5.5.1]]). This life should be utilized for ''tapasya'', to purify your existence. That is the ''śāstra''. ''Śāstra'' does not say you become modernized. What is this modernized? Simply waste of time.

'''Gurukṛpā:''' Polished.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

'''Gurukṛpā:''' Polished dogs.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Actual modernized means how far you have advanced in spiritual consciousness. That is wanted. It does not taste exactly ''ḍāl'', I think, due to this new water in it. So is there any engagement?

'''Gurukṛpā:''' Today?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Somebody was to come?

'''Gurukṛpā:''' Was to come, but . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' He is not coming. Who is not modernized? They will go to the dancing party for their salvation. (laughter) Dog dance.

'''Gurukṛpā:''' Today is Sunday. Everyone is busy with their family—family, society.

'''Prabhupāda:''' You know this Ravi Shankar?

'''Gurukṛpā:''' Umm-hmm.

'''Prabhupāda:''' His elder brother, Uday Shankar, he became very famous man as a dancer, all over the world. Uday Shankar. And by imitating his brother, the Ravi Shankar also tried to become first-class sitarist. So family . . . (break) . . . was a little famous for artistic. So that Uday Shankar was dancing in the Indian way, and there are many sculpture of dancing like that. That was his art. So he became famous.

'''Gurukṛpā:''' He's not living? He's dead?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, he's dead means now he's old man. He's about my age or little older than me. Now his skin has become slackened and body is not so strong to dance. It requires exercise. Therefore he's retired, I think maybe dead. But I don't hear his name. He was more or less known in Europe as Shankar. But he was so popular that one my doctor friend . . . he was educated in London, a medical officer of Allahabad. So he told me that, "I saw that in Paris, Uday Shankar's dancing was advertised, and hundreds and thousands of people from England going to Paris, crossing the Channel to see him dance." He showed me. He's so popular. And now nobody asks for him. (laughs)

'''Gurukṛpā:''' Another bubble.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

'''Gurukṛpā:''' Another bubble popped. I remember when Ravi Shankar and George Harrison came to see you in Vṛndāvana.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Gurukṛpā:''' The first thing you asked them was, "You are very famous, but what will you be next life? What is your guarantee for the next life?"

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. I told him.

'''Gurukṛpā:''' And I don't think any other ''guru'' would have asked that.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Where is ''guru''? ''Goru'', you say ''goru''. When it is pronounced ''guru'', I say, you say, don't say ''guru'', but you say ''goru''.

'''Gurukṛpā:''' ''Goru''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Goru'', no. Do you know ''goru''? ''Goru'' means cow.

'''Gurukṛpā:''' Cow. (laughs)

'''Prabhupāda:''' (laughing) Otherwise they're going to find out, then don't say ''goru. Guru''.

'''Gurukṛpā:''' ''Guru''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Goru'' means cow. ''Śrī-goru-caraṇa-padma. Śrī-goru.'' (laughs) So they're all ''gorus'', nobody ''guru''.

'''Gurukṛpā:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' All rascals. Now that Ravi Shankar has become George ''guru''. Somebody . . . you were telling me? That this boy has been taught to take the dust of the feet of Ravi Shankar in the stage, and people did not like it. So he has become unpopular accepting a ''goru''. (end)

771016 - Conversation B - Vrndavana

2024-02-07T04:58:55Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"

721016 - Lecture NOD - Vrndavana

2024-02-07T04:58:53Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"

[[Category:1972 - Lectures]]
[[Category:1972 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1972 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1972-10 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Lectures - India]]
[[Category:Lectures - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Lectures - Nectar of Devotion]]
[[Category:Audio Files 20.01 to 30.00 Minutes]]
[[Category:1972 - New Audio - Released in December 2015]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Bengali Snippets]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Lectures - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Lectures - by Date|Lectures by Date]], [[:Category:1972 - Lectures|1972]]'''</div>
{{RandomImage}}

<div class="code">721016ND-VRNDAVAN - October 16, 1972 - 21:52 Minutes</div>

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1972/721016ND-VRNDAVAN.mp3</mp3player>

'''Pradyumna:''' (reading) ". . . is a summary study of ''Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu'', which was written in Sanskrit by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda. He was the chief of the six Gosvāmīs who were the direct disciples of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. When he first met Lord Caitanya, Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda was engaged as a minister in the Muhammadan government of Bengal."

"He and his brother Sanātana were then named Sākara Mallika and Dabira Khāsa respectively, and they held responsible posts as ministers of Nawab Hussain Shah. At that time, five hundred years ago, the Hindu society was very rigid, and if a member of the ''brāhmin'' caste accepted the service of a Muhammadan ruler he was at once rejected from ''brāhmin'' society. That was the position of the two brothers Dabira Khāsa and Sākara Mallika. They belonged to the highly situated ''sārasvata''-''brāhmin'' . . ."

'''Prabhupāda:''' These two brothers, at that time their name was Sākara Mallika and Dabira Khāsa. So they were ostracized from the ''brāhmin'' community. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's special grace, that He accepted two rejected gentlemen from the ''brāhmin'' society and made them ''gosvāmīs''. That is the special significance of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement. He accepted Haridāsa Ṭhākura from born in Muhammadan community and He made him the ''ācārya'', ''namācārya''.

The . . . practically Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared to glorify the significance of the holy name. He is actually the ''ācārya'', ''namācārya'', but He transferred His ''namācārya''-ship to Haridāsa Ṭhākura. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement, ''kibā vipra kibā śūdra nyāsī kene naya'' ([[CC Madhya 8.128|CC Madhya 8.128]]). It doesn't matter whether he's a ''brāhmin'' or a ''śūdra'' or anyone, if he's ''kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā'', if he knows the science of Kṛṣṇa, then he can be made the spiritual master. ''Yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya.'' That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement's significance.

So following His footsteps, we are preaching Caitanya Mahāprabhu's cult and giving ''sannyāsa'' for preaching. That is not unauthorized. One who criticizes this action, he does not know the principle of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's principle is anyone who knows the science of Kṛṣṇa, he can become spiritual master. This is the significance. So from the very beginning, these two ''gosvāmīs'' . . . they were not in the beginning ''gosvāmīs''. They were Sākara Mallika, Dabira Khāsa. But they were made ''gosvāmīs''. And Haridāsa Ṭhākura was made ''namācārya''.

Then go on. This is the new edition of ''Nectar of Devotion.''

'''Pradyumna:''' "They belonged to the highly-situated ''sārasvata''-''brāhmin'' community, but they were ostracized due to their acceptance of ministerial posts in the government of Hussain Shah. It is the grace of Lord Caitanya that He accepted these two exalted personalities as His disciples . . ."

'''Prabhupāda:''' The ''brāhmiṇ'' community was so strong that because acceptance of service is the business of the ''śūdra'' . . . the ''brāhmiṇs'', they would not accept anyone's service. The ''kṣatriyas'', they would not accept anyone's service. And the ''vaiśyas'' also. They should live independently: ''brāhmiṇs'', by culture of Vedic knowledge; ''kṣatriyas'' by exacting taxes from the citizens; and ''vaiśyas'' by trade, agriculture. They should live.

To serve one is the business of the dog. That is mentioned in ''Bhāgavata''. So if there is dire necessity, a ''brāhmiṇ'' can accept the profession of a ''kṣatriya'' or the, even the profession of a ''vaiśya'', but not the profession of a ''śūdra''. But at the present moment, because everyone accepts the profession of ''śūdra'', therefore ''śāstra'' says, ''kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ''.

Here is the example, that Sākara Mallika, he was ''brāhmiṇ'', ''sārasvata-brāhmiṇ''. But because he accepted . . . they were learned ''brāhmiṇs'', not fools. Very good scholar in Sanskrit and Arabian language, still, because they accepted service in the Muhammadan government, they were rejected. Immediately: no. Punishment. That is punishment. In Hindi it is called ''hookah pāni bandh.''

In the society, in villages still, if one is ostracized, nobody will smoke with him. Hookah. Hookah means smoking. And ''pāni'' means not to accept his water hookah ''pāni bandh''. So that is ostracization. That was taken against Sanātana Gosvāmī. They were not ''gosvāmī'' at that time. Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted them. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's special grace. What is that word? Kak ke mayur kora. (Turn a crow into a peacock.) Come on.

Then? What happened?

'''Pradyumna:''' "It is the grace of Lord Caitanya that He accepted these two exalted personalities as His disciples and raised them to the position of gosvāmīs, the highest position of brahminical culture. Similarly, Lord Caitanya accepted Haridāsa Ṭhākura as His disciple, although he happened to be born of a Muhammadan family. And Lord Caitanya later on made him the ''ācārya'' . . ."

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Pradyumna:''' ". . . later on made him . . ."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Asun, samne ashun. Dr. Kapoor ke janen? Janen? Dr. Kapoorer sange amader 26 bachorer. Uni Allahabade student chilen. (Come, let's come forward. Do you know Dr. Kapoor? You know him? Dr. Kapoor is known to us for 26 years. He was a student in Allahabad.) (break)

'''Pradyumna:''' ". . . and Lord Caitanya later on made him the ''ācārya'' of the chanting of the holy name of the Lord, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare."

"Lord Caitanya's principle is universal. Anyone who knows the science of Kṛṣṇa and is engaged in the service of the Lord is accepted as being in a higher position than a person born in the family of a ''brāhmin''. That is the original principle accepted by all Vedic literatures, especially by the ''Bhagavad-gītā'' and the ''Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam''. The principle of Lord Caitanya's movement in educating and elevating everyone to the exalted post of a ''gosvāmī'' is taught in ''The Nectar of Devotion.''"

"Lord Caitanya met the two brothers Dabira Khāsa and Sākara Mallika in a village known as Rāmakeli in the district of Maldah, and after that meeting the brothers decided to retire from government service and join Lord Caitanya. Sakara Mallika, who was later to become Rūpa Gosvāmī, retired from his post and collected all the money he had accumulated during his service. It is described in the ''Caitanya-caritāmṛta'' that his accumulated savings in gold coins equaled millions of dollars and filled a large boat. He divided the money in a very exemplary manner, which should be followed by devotees in particular and by humanity in general."

"Fifty percent of his accumulated wealth was distributed to the Kṛṣṇa conscious persons, namely the ''brāhmins'' and the Vaiṣṇavas. Twenty-five percent was distributed to relatives. And twenty-five percent was kept against emergency expenditures and personal difficulties. Later on, when Dabira Khāsa also proposed to retire, the Nawab was very much agitated and put him into jail. But Dabira Khāsa, who was later to become . . ."

'''Prabhupāda:''' In this connection, we may inform that our disciples in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, those who are ''gṛhasthas'', they contribute at least fifty percent of their income. Yes. Most of them, they are full-time engaged. But if one cannot be whole time engaged . . . just like we, we have got our disciple, Professor Howard Wheeler. He gives more than fifty percent of his income for developing our New Vrindavan scheme. So we try to follow these principles laid down by Rūpa Gosvāmī, that fifty percent for Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's devotees, twenty-five percent for personal emergencies and twenty-five percent for the dependent relatives.

There are many couples here. They are married. I got them married. Sometimes I am criticized by my Godbrothers. But they do not know why I got them married. Here is a couple, Gurudāsa and his wife, Yamunā, and . . . where is Mālatī? Mālatī's not here? Eh? Mālatī and her husband, Śyāmasundara. And another couple, Jānakī and Mukunda. I sent them first, missionary, to London to start the temple. And for one year they struggled very hard, and they called me that "I started the temple."

So my Guru Mahārāja wanted to start a temple in London. He sent two ''sannyāsīs'', but it was not possible. But these ''gṛhasthas'', they started. So we want to see that the mission is fulfilled. It doesn't matter whether he's a ''gṛhastha'' or ''sannyāsī''. ''Kibā vipra kibā śūdra nyāsī kene naya'' ([[CC Madhya 8.128|CC Madhya 8.128]]). So by getting them married, I am benefited. They have helped me.

'''Dr Kapoor:''' There is nothing against marriage.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No. But sometimes my Godbrother criticizes that I am ''sannyāsī'', I am taking part in marriage. So I have got very good difficulties. Here, when I come India, they say that I am spoiling Hindu system of religion. And when I go there, the Christian says that, "Here is the greatest enemy." (laughter) (Bengali whether I move ahead or move backward they always criticize) This is my position. You see? If I go ahead, then (Bengali a son without a progeny). And if I go behind, then (Bengali bark repeatedly). So what can be done? I have to execute my duty. I am not encouraged by the government, by my Godbrothers, and still I have to do this duty. What can be done?

So, so far I am concerned, I know by getting them married I am benefited. They have done so much . . . he's also married, this boy (referring to Pradyumna). He's always . . . he has got his wife, he has got children, but he doesn't care for his wife and children. He remains with me and he helps me in editing the Sanskrit portion of my books. He has studied Sanskrit. He was not a Sanskrit scholar, but by his endeavor he has studied Sanskrit. So all my books, Sanskrit editing work, is done by him.

'''Dr Kapoor:''' I see.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. He works very hard. Now he understands Sanskrit. He can read Sanskrit. So if I get facility for pushing on my missionary work, there is no harm in getting married. Because in Europe, America, these boys and girls, they live like friends. So I said that, "You cannot live as friends. You must get yourself married," and that is . . . that has proved. Here is a girl. Where is that Śāradīyā? Śāradīyā is here?

'''Devotee:''' Here she comes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh. When she was young, fifteen years, she very frankly told me that "I want this boy to marry, Vaikuṇṭha." (laughter) So I told Vaikuṇṭha that, "You, you are reserved for her. As soon as she's over sixteen years, you have to marry her." Another girl, she is now at Manila, she's Australian. She was a famous actress. So she came to Los Angeles and surrendered to me. And I asked her that, "You go to Tokyo. I have got a disciple, and get yourself married with him."

'''Dr Kapoor:''' Oh, wonderful!

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. She never saw him. So in European countries . . .

'''Dr Kapoor:''' That's impossible.

'''Prabhupāda:''' It is impossible. But she went and married him, and they're living peacefully. Now they are married. So I have to see the interest of my missionary work. Never mind. Of course it is a novel thing, that ''sannyāsī'' is taking part in marriage. But what can be done? I have to execute my mission.

Go on. I think it is now . . .

'''Pradyumna:''' "But Dabira Khāsa, who was later to become Śrīla Sanātana Gosvāmī, took advantage of his brother's personal money . . ."

'''Prabhupāda:''' You can arrange a light here. Yes.

'''Pradyumna:''' ". . . which had been deposited with a village banker and escaped from the prison of Hussain Shah. In this way, both brothers joined Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu."

"Rūpa Gosvāmī first met Lord Caitanya at Prayāga (Allahabad, India) on the Daśāśvamedha bathing ''ghāṭa'' of that holy city . . . and on the Daśāśvamedha bathing ''ghāṭa'' of that holy city the Lord instructed him continually for ten days. The Lord particularly instructed Rūpa Gosvāmī on the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. These teachings of Lord Caitanya to Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda are narrated in our book ''Teachings of Lord Caitanya''."

"Later, Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda elaborated the teachings of the Lord with profound knowledge of revealed scriptures and authoritative references from various Vedic literatures. Śrīla Śrīnivāsa Ācārya describes in his prayers to the six Gosvāmīs that they were all highly learned scholars, not only in Sanskrit, but also in foreign languages such as Persian and Arabian. They very scrutinizingly studied all the Vedic literatures in order to establish the cult of Caitanya Mahāprabhu on the authorized principles of Vedic knowledge."

"The present Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is also based on the authority of Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda. We are therefore generally known as ''rūpānugas'', or followers in the footsteps of Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda. It is only for our guidance that Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī prepared his book ''Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu'', which is now presented in the form of ''The Nectar of Devotion''. Persons engaged in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement may take advantage of this great literature and be very solidly situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

"Bhakti means devotional service. Every service . . ."

'''Prabhupāda:''' My Guru Mahārāja, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja, he used to advise to read ''Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu'', everyone, after initiation. At least, he advised me. So this ''Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu'' is very important as study book for the Vaiṣṇavas. It is the science of devotional service. And people are, in Western countries, taking interest. In the Temple University, it has become a textbook in the religious class. There are sixty students who are regularly studying the ''Bhakti'' . . . ''Nectar of Devotion'' published by us. And gradually it is being introduced in other colleges and schools.

(aside) I think you are straining.

'''Gurudāsa:''' The candle is coming.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Coming. Hmm. So we can stop. Acyutānanda, you can have ''kīrtana'' (break) (''kīrtana'') (break) (end)

761229 - Morning Walk - Bombay

2024-02-07T04:58:53Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"

[[Category:1976 - Morning Walks]]
[[Category:1976 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1976 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1976-12 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Morning Walks - India]]
[[Category:Morning Walks - India, Bombay]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Bombay]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Hindi Snippets]]
[[Category:1976 - New Audio - Released in November 2013]]
[[Category:Audio Files 30.01 to 45.00 Minutes]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Morning Walks - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Morning Walks - by Date|Morning Walks by Date]], [[:Category:1976 - Morning Walks|1976]]'''</div>
{{RandomImage}}

<div class="code">761229MW-BOMBAY - December 29, 1976 - 33.05 Minutes</div>

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1976/761229MW-BOMBAY_mono.mp3</mp3player>

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . free. Free education, why they'll not accept?

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Free education they will.

'''Prabhupāda:''' It is free.

'''Guest (1) (Indian man):''' It is free education.

'''Prabhupāda:''' It is free. We are asking people, "Come here, live here, take this education."

'''Guest (1):''' Nobody pays anything.

'''Prabhupāda:''' It is free. Everything is free. We are not going to charge anything. Retired man, come here, take this spiritual education. This is our whole system. (greets guest) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

'''Guest (2) (Indian man):''' ''Jaya''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Jaya''. Why they'll not do? Just think over this. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' We have given this main point to our lawyers, and this is what we are working on.

'''Prabhupāda:''' It is completely educational. Spiritual education. ''Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ'' ([[BG 2.13 (1972)|BG 2.13]]). It is not religious sentiment. Some Arya-''samajis'' told me in Durban, South Africa, that "Why you are bringing this Hindu idea?" And this is not your Hindu idea. Kṛṣṇa said, ''kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā''. Does it mean that only Hindus, from boyhood they become youth, and the Musselman does not? What is this nonsense? People are so misguided they cannot understand this simple word, this spiritual education. They say Hindu idea, that only the Hindu boys grow to become young men. The Muslim, the Christian, they do not grow up. Just see how much in darkness they are and how much they require this education. How the world is in need of this spiritual education. And they cannot understand it. Just see how they are dull and rascal-headed. Hindus grow only. Huh? ''Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam'' . . . ([[BG 2.13 (1972)|BG 2.13]]). Kṛṣṇa said from boyhood to ''yauvanam''. It is Hindu idea. The ''Arya-samaji'' friend told me, "Why you bring this Hindu idea?" How much dull they are, just imagine.

'''Dr. Patel:''' I don't think it is dullness. It is fanaticism maybe.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And who becomes fanatic? All rascals, dull. They become fanatic. Otherwise, why one should be fanatic? If one has got brain, one has got logic, how he should be fanatic? Fanatics means dull-headed rascal, that's all. The Muslims they become fanatic, we say, generally they are, because they're dull-headed. Always unclean and eating meat and low behavior. What is that? ''Pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca janā na vidur āsurāḥ, na śaucaṁ nāpi cācāraḥ'' ([[BG 16.7 (1972)|BG 16.7]]). This is dull head. There is no cleanliness, no behavior. Aachar nahi hai, gandi place me jana. Ma behan ladki koi bhi chalo sex kaam kare, din bhar ghoomo. (They don't have any moral behavior, going to dirty places. Whether it's a mother, daughter, or girl—they have free sex. Roam like a loafer the whole day.) That is especially mentioned, that ''nayaṁ deha. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ'' ''nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye'' ([[SB 5.5.1|SB 5.5.1]]). This kind of life is meant for the hogs, not for the human beings. Din bhar parishram karo, pet bhar ke khao aur shaam ko . . . aur jahan mota-taaza ho gaya bās. Sex. (Work hard throughout the day, eat nicely, and in the evening . . . and when become healthy-fat only. Sex.) No discrimination. Maa, bahin, ladki kisi se sabhi se chalega. (Mother, sister, girl with anyone, they will have sex with anyone.) Sex is a bodily . . . what is the . . .

'''Guest (1):''' Necessity of life.

'''Dr. Patel:''' Biological necessity.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Necessity. "What is the difference? Why not with sister, why not with daughter or even why not with mother? What is the wrong there?" They say like that?

'''Dr. Patel:''' They consider themselves to be animals.

'''Prabhupāda:''' They are animals. Why consider? They are animals. Therefore ''śāstra'' says ''viḍ-bhujām''. Not ordinary animals. A ''suar'', animal. ''Suar''. Itna neeche gir gaya hai. (They are very fallen.) Animal society. ''Dvipāda-paśu''. Usko agar kaha jaye. (If we were to tell them.) We'll say that, "Why you are wasting your time in this so-called material advancement?" How they'll understand? So dull head. Suar ko agar bole kyon tum stool khate ho halwa khao. (If we tell the pig, "Why you want to eat stool? Eat sweet preparation.")

'''Dr. Patel:''' (laughs) You're right. The modern civilization is the materialists, ''veda'' is material. ''Veda'' is body consciousness.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That means ''suar'' civilization. It is ''suar'' civilization.

'''Dr. Patel:''' . . . is only the civilization of ''Vedas''. We have lost the Vedic mooring, unfortunately.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Why India should lost? India is the hope of the whole world, and their men have now become ''suar'', ''suar kavaca''. That is my regret. Others may be, but why Indians? Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said:

:''bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra''
:''janma sārthaka kari' kara'' . . .
:([[CC Adi 9.41|CC Adi 9.41]])

''Bhārata-bhūmi'', you don't become ''suar-chala''. You make your life . . .

'''Dr. Patel:''' We have become, sir, in a way, because we have . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Anyway, you should check now.

'''Dr. Patel:''' Our system has been . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' You should check now. You should revive now.

'''Dr. Patel:''' The Vedic civilization is the base of our making a man. I mean, truly a good man.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Jo ho gaya ho gaya ab to lena chahiye. (Whatever has happened is in the past, at least now you must revive.)

'''Guest (2):''' No, we should check it. That is the point.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Suar ekdam ho gaya to sab suar hi chalega, aadmi bano. (If you have become a pig then not everyone should become a pig, at least now you become a human being.) (chants ''japa'') (break) Hindu idea. Hindu idea. (break) You know that? Fetus (pronounces "fettus") or fetus? What is that? Killing, killing and eating.

'''Dr. Patel:''' Somebody told. You or somebody. No?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, not somebody. Everybody says. Not some. Everyone knows. It is common practice. Delicacy.

'''Dr. Patel:''' The idea is so abominable to our culture.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Abominable . . . Usi ke liye to suar bolta hai. (That is why they are called pigs.) Suar's activity's all abominable.

'''Dr. Patel:''' But this idea of eating a fetus is extremely abominable. You can't think of it. I mean a baby having developed, we can't imagine.

'''Prabhupāda:''' But you must know it.

'''Dr. Patel:''' know the world around makes the way Western civilized people kill, we simply shudder at the very idea. Others, they're not able to, I mean, bear the sight of meat.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Our men, those who are not educated, they are better than the . . . that people may call superstition, but if they are going by the old superstition they would have . . . I have seen in . . . sometime in 1945 or '46, in a train one village girl was sitting and covering. She's young girl, going to her husband's house. What is that? Gonal.

'''Dr. Patel:''' Gomath, gomath.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no. Gonal. After . . . because formerly the girls were married early. So after getting puberty there is one ceremony, it is called diti-abhi-bha. Another ceremony. And then she goes to her husband's house. So she was going there with presentation of father, mother. So she was covered. So another young girl, up-to-date, she was doing like this. They were girls. One can touch . So once, twice. When it made thrice, that village girl slapped her, "Hut!" I said: "Yes, you have done right." She was thinking . . . the city girl was thinking, "What is this nonsense?" She wanted to criticize. (laughs)

'''Guest (1):''' She got a slap.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And she gave a good slap. I've seen it. She's up-to-date, and she became surprised. Lifting the ''avaguṇṭhana''. So the whole train, they became laughed. And woman, the shyness is the only protection for them.

'''Guest (1):''' Shyness.

'''Dr. Patel:''' Modesty.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Modesty. There is no modesty left. Anyway, and that is her beauty. But we are breaking that. There is no beauty, no attraction. And as soon as you break this modesty, shyness, then the woman will create devastation.

'''Dr. Patel:''' Yes. They have been. They have finished now.

'''Hari-śauri:''' There's no carpet to sit down in front of . . . (indistinct) . . . it's disappeared. Oh, here it is.

'''Dr. Patel:''' No, if you sit down, these swellings will become less on the feet. Walking, it is . . . (indistinct) . . .?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, a little movement.

'''Dr. Patel:''' We got your kidneys examined. You haven't got much diabetes now. But unfortunately kidneys are . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' I'm not eating much.

'''Dr. Patel:''' No, after kidneys are little affected. It was lack of albumen, and perhaps you'll be all right by this shatawari. You know this shatawari? Shatawari's growing in our own garden here. That pandit Sharma will be coming on Thursday at six o'clock. Pandit Sharma is very well renowned

'''Prabhupāda:''' Shatawari you see. If it is medicine, we can have.

'''Dr. Patel:''' He will guide you better than me. At six o'clock we have to send somebody to catch him on his consulting . . . (indistinct) . . . he stays somewhere . . . his house number is 36 . . . (indistinct)

'''Guest (2):''' If they let me know, I can bring him.

'''Dr. Patel:''' He has already given time, six o'clock. If you can go and bring him at six o'clock . . .

'''Guest (2):''' No, then they will have to come from all the way here.

'''Dr. Patel:''' No, no. He will be coming here. (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ye duty hai, ye suar ko aadmi banana. (It is the duty to make this pig into a human being.) This is fact. The whole world has become suar, aur uska aadmi banao, yehi karo. (Pig, and you make a human being out of this pig, you do this.) Including India. It is not that India is now human being. No. India has also become ''suar''. So it is a great service. This is the only service to the human society. And to keep them ''suar'' and organizing United Nation—what the ''suar'' will unite?

'''Dr. Patel:''' United Nation of ''suars''. (laughter)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. So how it will be successful?

'''Dr. Patel:''' That is all they have. This is disunited nation, not united nation.

'''Prabhupāda:''' I said in some public meeting in Melbourne, "The United Nation is the assembly of some dogs. They are barking." And newspapermen added, "The Swami has come to hound you." (laughter) Eh? What is that?

'''Hari-śauri:''' "His Divine Grace is here to hound us."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hound. Yes. So I attacked the whole United Nation, and so they attacked me also.

'''Dr. Patel:''' No, we have seen the League of Nations was even badder than the United Nations. They are all really fighting among themselves very badly.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Now how they cannot fight? They are swines and dogs. How they will remain peaceful? It is not possible. ''Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā'' ([[BG 18.54 (1972)|BG 18.54]]). Unless they are spiritually elevated, they cannot be peaceful. It is impossible. ''Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ'' ([[BG 5.18 (1972)|BG 5.18]]). Simply by stamping.

'''Dr. Patel:''' And there is another class of . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Gandhi became ''mahātmā'', but his mission was, "Get out. Englishmen, get out." Where is ''samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu''? He declared himself ''mahātmā'', but his business was how to drive away the Englishmen.

'''Dr. Patel:''' Sir, he, I mean, I'm sorry to interrupt you. He never hated Englishmen. It's their method he wanted to drive out.

'''Prabhupāda:''' "I do not hate you, but I beat you with shoes." (laughter)

'''Dr. Patel:''' No, you don't beat me with shoes. He never beat them with shoes. He said: "Well, we don't like you." If I say: "Do this," and it is not good, I mean, I'm not wrong in that way, I suppose. I'm open to correction.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no. English civilization is not good. What was the wrong? I say repeatedly, again and again, he ruined the Manchester cloth business; he developed Ahmedabad cloth. The result is we poor men, we were paying one rupee six annas per pair, now we are paying thirty rupees. Money is going . . . instead of going to the pocket of the Englishmen it is going to the pocket of Mahadevia. (laughter)

'''Dr. Patel:''' English people, they, I mean, ruined their whole industry of . . . Bengal textile industry was ruined by Britishers. They cut away the thumbs. That is . . . I'm sorry, sir . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Therefore why ''mahātmā''? The same business you are doing, why you say ''mahātmā''? If you are doing the same business . . .

'''Dr. Patel:''' He never called himself ''mahātmā''. People called him ''mahātmā''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' He liked to enjoy it. He liked to enjoy it. That's all. ''Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ'' ([[BG 9.13 (1972)|BG 9.13]]). ''Mahātmā'' has no business to this . . . (break) . . . fact, the present position of India, it is not very good. But we can do that. We have got the means. If we make propaganda village to village . . . still, the villagers, they are unpolluted; they can be recovered. Still, when we hold meeting of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, thousands of men come. And that our Hyderabad land is very suitable for this purpose.

'''Devotee:''' The thing is, Prabhupāda, in India they know that materialism is wrong because they've been educated.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. But they are being educated that materialism is good, and this so-called spiritual . . . they do not recognize the spiritual movement. Our government do not recognize any spiritual movement.

'''Dr. Patel:''' They interpret secularism as no religion. Rather equal truth to all religions is the real meaning of secularism. The government tries to pamper the minority . . . (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sab milkarke India ko . . . (Everyone together make India . . .) world will be benefited. Still people observe India.

'''Guest (1):''' If it is told by . . . (indistinct) . . . who accept it.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, why these boys are attracted? They have not come here to see your industry for materialism. They have come here for spiritual. They have not come to see your cycle and sewing machine. Actually, they have come, Vṛndāvana, Māyāpur. And they are not poverty stricken. We go to Europe being poverty stricken. That Lady Willingdon, he (she) challenged one of my Godbrothers, Bhakti Tīrtha Mahārāja, that "You Indian people . . ." She was very proud, Lady Willingdon. Willingdon was, I saw, she said that, "You Indian people . . ." Of course, it was friendly talk. "You come to our country, we give you some stamp, degree, and you earn your livelihood in India. What you have come here to teach?" This was the challenge. Actually, that was happening. We were sending our men to England to become bar-at-law, to become M.I., C.P., to become this and that, and they became here big men. So "Why you people come here to teach us?" This was the challenge. In those days a little favor of Englishman was considered a great boon. In Bengal there is a word, ''sāheb śubha''. ''Sāheb'' means European, especially Englishman, and ''śubha'' means "auspicious." So if anyone can make friendship with a European, then his life is successful. And that was happening. The Englishmen were opening business houses. If somebody became connected, he gets good business. He becomes a rich man. There is a family in Calcutta, Saubhaga Raj family. So the head of that family, some Navinchandra Dev, he was a minor clerk of Lord Clive's. So when Lord Clive was in Delhi, he was young man, he was sitting on that peacock throne and slept. Young man. So Lord Clive saw, "Oh, what is this young man?" So the Englishman, then he came to Calcutta. So "You are fortunate. All right, I'll make you a king." Britishers, they were giving title, "king." So he was given the title Raj. So the whole family is Saubhaga Raj family still. This was the Raj. He was a clerk.

Why people will not say sāheb śubha? He became favorite to Lord Clive, and his whole family became Raj family. Still that family is there, those who are known to Calcutta. One of the oldest aristocrats. So all these aristocratic families, they were made by these Britishers—except the Tagore family. They were from the Muhammadan time. The people became attached to the Europeans. ''Sāheb śubha''. If you meet one Englishman, then your fortune is . . . I think Bombay was there also.

'''Guest (1):''' There are many families among those, even today.

'''Prabhupāda:''' There are many Parsi families. But they wanted some friends. They were minority. Unless with the cooperation of the Indians, how they could stand? Therefore they introduced the ''zamindari'' system in Bengal, Bihar, Orissa. Some aristocratic families should cooperate with them. They knew how to rule over. Now by over-cooperating they have become hoax. That verse I very much like.

:''nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke''
:''kaṣṭān kāmān arhate''
:''tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ''
:''sattvaṁ śuddhyed'' . . .
:([[SB 5.5.1|SB 5.5.1]])

The human life is meant for purifying. They have lost this goal of life. Temporarily we are thinking if we make some comfortable arrangement for body, and that is sufficient. That is sufficient. Lost Vedic culture, ideal of life, goal of life. Isko sudharna hai. (This has to be changed.) At least in India it should. In other places they are . . . therefore this movement's against them. Because we are preaching this philosophy just opposite to their views, they are taking it "brainwashed." Is that all right in your country?

'''Devotee:''' They accuse them of brainwashing. But actually . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' They cannot believe that other than this method, there can be civilization. This hoggish civilization is real civilization. To become like hog, that is real civilization. And to give up this process, thinking of soul, elevation of the soul, going back to Godhead—simply imagination, brainwashing. How they can understand? ''Mām aprāpya nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra vartmani'' ([[BG 9.3 (1972)|BG 9.3]]). Who can understand this? <style="color:#ec710e">Bhagvan ko nahi mila to return jana padega to the cycle of birth and death. You believe that . . . sab Gita padhane . . . doctor se, kaun sa hospital hai. (If you do not get God, then you have to return to the cycle of birth and death? Everyone teaches the ''Gita'' . . . from doctor, in which hospital?) God that If you do not in this life achieve the sense of spiritual consciousness, then you'll have to go back to the cycle of birth and death.

Who will understand this philosophy? Mostly they do not know what is the cycle of birth and death, and what to speak of understanding God. This is the position. This is ''suar'' position. A ''suar'' cannot understand. The men have become like that, in the name of so-called civilization. Can a ''suar'' understand this philosophy? A man cannot understand. And what is the difference between him and the ''suar''? Agar suar ko koi samajhaye: (If someone tries to make the pig understand:) There is a narration, Brahmā came, and Indra became, by the curse of Bṛhaspati, became a ''suar''. So he was living in the forest as ''suar''. So Brahmājī came, "All right, your punishment is now over. You come." "Where shall I go?" "The heaven?" "This is heaven." "You have got your kingdom, heaven. You have come to suffer this life." "No, no, I cannot go." "Why?" "Now who will take responsibility for my this ''suarni''?" (laughter)

'''Dr. Patel:''' I like this tale.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then Brahmā began to kill his ''suarni'' and his pigs and others, and then he began to cry and took him by force. There is a . . . (indistinct) . . . like that. Even Indra, when he comes under the influence of this ''tamo-guṇa'', he became happy in the high life of ''suar''.

'''Dr. Patel:''' ''Māyā duratyayā. Mama māyā duratyayā. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te'' ([[BG 7.14 (1972)|BG 7.14]]).

'''Devotees:''' ''Jaya'', Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

'''Śrutaśravā:''' The governor there, he was making a statement that most institutions in California like hospitals and places like this, they are simply torture chambers. So he made one request that people like priests and monks and Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees, if they could go to these places and try to help people.

'''Prabhupāda:''' We are prepared. If they give us in charge, we are prepared.

'''Śrutaśravā:''' So on Christmas day Rāmeśvara Mahārāja was planning that many devotees could go there and distribute ''prasāda'' and some literatures.

'''Prabhupāda:''' We can cure them from material and spiritual diseases. They are now trying to cure them from material ailments. We can cure them from spiritual ailments. Actually, the ailment is spiritual. Material is symptom. (end)

750913 - Morning Walk - Vrndavana

2024-02-07T04:58:52Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"

[[Category:1975 - Morning Walks]]
[[Category:1975 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1975 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1975-09 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Morning Walks - India]]
[[Category:Morning Walks - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Bengali Snippets]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Hindi Snippets]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with both Bengali and Hindi Snippets]]
[[Category:Audio Files 30.01 to 45.00 Minutes]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Morning Walks - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Morning Walks - by Date|Morning Walks by Date]], [[:Category:1975 - Morning Walks|1975]]'''</div>
{{RandomImage}}


<div class="center">[[Vanipedia:750913b Morning Walk - Srila Prabhupada Speaks a Nectar Drop in Vrndavana|'''  <big>Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this lecture'''</big>]]</div>


<div class="code">750913MW-VRNDAVAN - September 13, 1975 - 43:57 Minutes</div>

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1975/750913MW-VRNDAVAN.mp3</mp3player>

'''Prabhupāda:''' This is called hog life, how to maintain this body. ''Kaṣṭan kāmān. Kāmān'' means necessities of life. Very, with great difficulty . . . ''Kaṣṭan kāmān''. (break) ''Kaṣṭan kāmān''. Life can be easily maintained by agriculture and cow protection. No. They will start big, big mills, factories, motor tires, cars, instruments. ''Kaṣṭan kāmān''. In the ''Bhagavad-gītā'' it is called ''ugra-karma'', fierce . . . (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Fierceful activities.

Vraja-vāsī: ''Haribol!''

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hare Kṛṣṇa. ''Kaṣṭan kāmān''. Unnecessarily creating problems. (break) . . . one after another, one after another. Formerly paper was used only for Vedic knowledge. Now the paper used for so many useless newspaper, volumes and volumes and jasusi, (spying,) unnecessarily creating agitation of the mind. And if you explain these things they will say, "This is all primitive ideas." Modern ideas means one must work very hard day and night to get a little piece of ''cāpāṭi''. Hmm? What is the answer?

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' If we don't work hard they say, "You are a burden on society."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' If a person doesn't work hard day and night, they say: "You are just living on society."

'''Prabhupāda:''' That I am explaining. The day and night is that pig is working. That I am explaining. Then what is the difference between the pig and me if I am also working hard like that pig? Huh?

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' There's no difference.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then, why you say you are advanced in civilization? That is forbidden. ''Kaṣṭan kāmān na arhati'' ([[SB 5.5.1|SB 5.5.1]]). It is not desirable; it is not good. You are given this body different from this pig because you will live peacefully and happily. Why should you accept ''kaṣṭan kāman'', so hardship? Actually they do not want to work hard. Otherwise why the proprietor, the capitalist, they leave the factory and go to a solitary place? Why does he go?

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' They don't find any happiness even in the hard work.

'''Prabhupāda:''' The other worker, he is seeing that, "This rascal has engaged us in hard work, and he is enjoying. So drive him out. Kill him." This is Communism. Everyone wants that, comfort, peacefully living. Therefore this civilization, to work hard, is condemned. If hard work is desirable, why the capitalists avoiding? Hmm? What is answer?

'''Upendra:''' They say they worked hard to get there.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Upendra:''' They worked hard to get there.

'''Prabhupāda:''' "To get there" means?

'''Upendra:''' To get to their position they worked hard.

'''Prabhupāda:''' What is their position?

'''Upendra:''' Of relaxation.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Relaxing . . . I am relaxing. Why you are inducing me? I am relaxing. Then why you are inducing me to work hard? I am already relaxing. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take little ''prasāda''. That's all. Why you are inducing me to work hard?

'''Brahmānanda:''' They say you have to earn your relaxation.

'''Prabhupāda:''' But earn or not earn, I am enjoying relaxation.

'''Brahmānanda:''' You're not entitled, unless you work very hard.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. That is nonsense.

'''Upendra:''' In America they say you have to pay for freedom.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, freedom, if I have got already, why shall I pay? I have already paid. Why you're inducing? I am already enjoying. Why you are inducing me to work hard? I have paid for it. By my ''karma'' in my previous life I have already paid for that; therefore I am enjoying.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' They don't believe in the law of ''karma''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Therefore they are rascals. Rascal. This is a rascal civilization. Rascal civilization: one side, they say contraceptive; another side, they will encourage woman to marry three times a week. This is their civilization. If you want stop population, why you are inducing, "Indulge in sex life"? Stop sex life—''brahmacārī''. Everything is contradictory. And it is all sense gratification, based on sense gratification.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' If a person is not satisfying his senses they think he is crazy.

'''Prabhupāda:''' But where is your sense satisfied? You are crazy. You are repeatedly being kicked by nature, that your senses will never be satisfied. Still, you are trying for that. Even the old man of eighty years old, he is going to the nightclub. Where is sense ''satis'' . . . When his senses will be satisfied? (aside:) ''Jaya''. Relaxation . . . If somebody is relaxing, chanting, they will induce, "Oh, you are escaping."

'''Brahmānanda:''' "Misery loves company."

'''Prabhupāda:''' What is that?

'''Brahmānanda:''' That's a saying, that if someone is feeling misery, he wants other people to also enjoy the misery.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Brahmānanda:''' No one wants to suffer alone.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Cutting the tail of the jackal . . . (indistinct Bengali) . . . "My tail is cut, so your tail must be cut." This is a fashion. (pause) That is practical. The world is working so hard, but where is the peace and happiness?

'''Brahmānanda:''' It's coming.

'''Prabhupāda:''' (laughs) When it will come? That is unknown.

'''Brahmānanda:''' Maybe at the end of this century.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And at the end of your life. Just like insurance policy: you'll be happy after death. "You go on paying now, work hard, go on paying the premium, and you'll be happy after death." This is insurance policy. And I am going to be a dog after death, and how he'll be happy? Just see.

'''Indian man (1):''' It is quite evident that miseries are growing darker and darker.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That must be, because you are under nature's law. How you can avoid? As you are working, you will get the result. ''Karmana daiva-netrena'' ([[SB 3.31.1|SB 3.31.1]]). There is superior power to supervise how you are working.

'''Indian man (2):''' ''Karmana baddhyate jantur vidyaya'' . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. ''Karmana baddhyate''. They do not know. Poor fund of knowledge. Rascals. ''Mūḍha''. Kṛṣṇa comes to inform these rascals, "You are all ''duṣkṛtina, mūḍha''." That is Kṛṣṇa's declaration. ''Na maṁ duṣkṛtino mū'' ([[BG 7.15 (1972)|BG 7.15]]) . . . "Therefore surrender unto Me." This is the whole purpose.

'''Indian man (2):'''

:''bahūni me vyatītāni''
:''janmāni tava cārjuna''
:''tāny ahaṁ veda sarvāṇi''
:''na tvaṁ vettha parantapa''
:([[BG 4.5 (1972)|BG 4.5]])

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna. Although Arjuna is . . . Birth after birth, he is friend of Kṛṣṇa, ''nitya-siddha''. Still, he forgets, what to speak of others. ''Bahūni me janmāni tava cārjuna''. That means, "We are friends always. So you also appear; I also appear. But the difference is you forget; I don't forget. That is difference between you and Me. You also don't forget. That is for limited time. But the consciousness is the same. Only difference is that My consciousness is unlimited, your consciousness is limited. That is difference." This understanding is ''ahaṁ brahmāsmi''. My consciousness and Kṛṣṇa's consciousness, that is fact. But Kṛṣṇa's consciousness is everywhere; my consciousness is within myself. That's all. The Māyāvādī interprets, ''yena sarvam idaṁ tataḥ'' ([[BG 2.17 (1972)|BG 2.17]]): "One who is expanded everywhere, pervaded." But I am not pervading everywhere.

'''Dhṛṣṭaketu:''' They say when you become liberated then you become, then you pervade everywhere. It's just that . . . They say that just now, in this position . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' So when you will be liberated? What is the standard of liberation?

'''Dhṛṣṭaketu:''' By performing austerities, by studying the . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's all right. What is the standard?

'''Dhṛṣṭaketu:''' When I merge, when I lose my identity, when I don't . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' That means you forget. You forget everything. Then how you will be liberated? Whatever little consciousness was there, that is finished. Then how you become liberated? Whatever you had, that is also finished. Eh? Then how you become liberated?

'''Harikeśa:''' But what we are forgetting is just illusion anyway.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is liberation. Then I kill you, you forget everything—liberation. (laughter) What is the meaning of liberation? They do not know even the meaning of liberation.

'''Harikeśa:''' To get rid of all these miseries.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That you can do. I can kill you; you get rid of all miseries. Finished. You are finished; your miseries are finished. That's all.

'''Brahmānanda:''' It doesn't matter whether you live or you die because it is all one.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Well, let me kill you. That's all right. It will be great beneficial to you.

'''Indian man (1):''' To my opinion, we are more liberated in . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Your opinion, my opinion. We have to consider the fact. (''vraja-vāsī'' passes by, singing) This is ''jīvan ko sabadiya tomara''. This is surrender, that he is singing, ''jīvan ko sabadiya'': "When I surrender unto Your lotus feet." That is surrender. This is liberation. Just like the child fully surrendered to the parent, he is liberated. He has no anxiety. He is confident, "My parents are there. Whatever he'll do, that's all right for me." That is liberation.

'''Indian man (1):''' We can become free from all anxieties.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, that is liberation. If you are filled up with anxieties, where is your liberation? That is not liberation.

'''Dhṛṣṭaketu:''' They will also say that this condition of being one with the Supreme is also . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' How you become one? If Kṛṣṇa or the consciousness is there but you lose your consciousness, why you become one?

'''Harikeśa:''' Well, it's not exactly that we lose consciousness but we merge into the supreme consciousness.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Supreme consciousness?

'''Harikeśa:''' Then we become God.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No. You cannot. Then why you are different now?

'''Harikeśa:''' It's my ''līlā''. (laughter)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then if it is ''līlā'', then why you are undergoing austerities? That is also ''līlā''. If it is ''līlā'', then why you are trying to get out of it by practicing austerity?

'''Harikeśa:''' Mahārāja Ṛṣabhadeva performed austerity.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Harikeśa:''' Ṛṣabhadeva, He performed austerity.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, what . . .? I do not follow what you say.

'''Devotee:''' He's saying that, "Ṛṣabhadeva performed austerity, so therefore I am performing austerity."

'''Prabhupāda:''' You are performing, but what is Ṛṣabhadeva's position?

'''Devotee:''' He never claimed to merge with the supreme consciousness.

'''Dhanañjaya:''' But the whole thing is that the supreme consciousness is unembodied, and we are embodied right now. So when we attain supreme consciousness we also become unembodied.

'''Prabhupāda:''' How you become embodied if you are supreme? Who made you embodied if you are supreme? Then who made you embodied, he is supreme; you are not supreme. You did not like to be embodied, therefore you are trying to be bodyless. But who made you embodied? Then that he or she is supreme. You are not supreme.

'''Dhṛṣṭaketu:''' I put myself in this condition so that I can enjoy getting out of it.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

'''Dhṛṣṭaketu:''' I put myself in this condition of illusion so that I can enjoy being liberated.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And so you put yourself to be kicked by me and enjoy. Just test what is the enjoyment of being kicked. (laughter)

'''Dhanañjaya:''' But without pain, how can you experience pleasure?

'''Prabhupāda:''' You get this experience, how it is pleasure? I kick and you enjoy?

'''Dhṛṣṭaketu:''' The idea is that after experiencing the suffering of this material world, then liberation will be very . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Why there is suffering, material? You are supreme, why it is suffering for you?

'''Dhṛṣṭaketu:''' Well, so that when I . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' So, there is no "so that." Why you are suffering?

'''Brahmānanda:''' It's suffering only for those . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' If it is your ''līlā'', then you are suffering. What is this nonsense of "my ''līlā''"? Suffering?

'''Brahmānanda:''' The suffering is only for those who haven't, who don't understand that they are supreme.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Brahmānanda:''' Those who don't understand, they are the ones who suffer, but I don't suffer.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So it is better to remain in that ignorance. Just like the hogs and dogs, they do not understand that this is suffering. But we can understand that this is suffering.

'''Brahmānanda:''' Yes. To be a dog, that's all right because the dog doesn't suffer. He is enjoying.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no, why you are doing austerity? Remain as dog and cat. Therefore you are ''mūḍha''. You do not know what is suffering, what is enjoyment. ''Mūḍho nābhijānāti mam ebhyaḥ param avyayam''. Therefore one who is intelligent, ''jñāni'', ''bahūnām jan'' . . . after suffering in this way and talking all nonsense, when he comes to the real knowledge, then he surrenders. ''Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān maṁ prapadyate'' ([[BG 7.19 (1972)|BG 7.19]]). That is knowledge.

'''Indian man (1):''' ''Kamādinaṁ katī na katidhā pālitā durnideśāḥ'' ([[CC Madhya 22.16|CC Madhya 22.16]]).

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah. When he comes to this awareness that, "I have simply suffered, and I wanted to maintain myself by jugglery of words," then he comes to the real knowledge.

'''Dhṛṣṭaketu:''' So the Māyāvādīs' philosophy is actually the supreme illusion.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has forbidden. ''Māyāvādī-bhāṣya sunile haya sarva nasa'' ([[CC Madhya 6.169|CC Madhya 6.169]]). One is finished if he follows the ''Māyāvāda'' philosophy. He is doomed. He will never be able to accept the real philosophy. He will be absorbed in that false philosophy. This is Māyāvādī's position. ''Māyāvādī haya kṛṣṇe aparādhī''. They are ''aparādhī'', offender. Therefore they shall remain perpetually in ignorance and think himself, "I am God." This is Māyāvādī's position. Vivekananda preached openly that "Why you are thinking that you are sinful? You are God." He preached like that.

'''Brahmānanda:''' The Christians, they have a concept of sin. So when Vivekananda went to America he was telling them, "No, you forget this concept. Whatever you do, it's all right because you are God." They were surprised.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' That's why they liked him.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no. They did not like. The Christian priests did not like him. They condemned him, "Oh, you are come from India, and you are speaking nonsense, this?" In those hundred years the Christian priests were conscious: "But how is this? From India he has come and he's talking like nonsense?" They questioned in Chicago speech.

'''Dhṛṣṭaketu:''' He's just fanning the fires of atheism.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Harikeśa:''' This Māyāvādī philosophy, is this . . .?

'''Prabhupāda:''' They are atheist. They are first-class atheist, more than the Buddhist. ''Veda na maniya bauddha haila nāstika''. The Buddhists, they did not accept Vedic authorities; therefore they are considered as ''nāstika''. But ''vedāśraya nāstikya vada''. These rascals, they accept ''Vedas'' and preaches atheism. So they are more dangerous than the Buddhists. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's version. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. ''Bauddha ke adhika'': "They are more dangerous than the Buddhists." The Buddhists, although they are supposed to be atheists, they worship the deity Lord Buddha. But they say it is ''māyā''. And more advanced than these atheists.

'''Brahmānanda:''' The Māyāvādīs.

'''Prabhupāda:''' More . . . not advanced. More degraded. These atheists, they have been taught to worship the form of Lord Buddha, and Buddha is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, so one day they will be delivered. But these rascals will never be delivered.

Pṛthu-putra: I read in one of your books so many names about different groups of these Māyāvādī philosophers. Are they still existing today and active?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Anyone who thinks godlessness, he is Māyāvādī, that's all. Anyone. All these impersonalists, they are all Māyāvādīs. And mostly they are now impersonalists.

'''Dhṛṣṭaketu:''' So although we can't see it with our material eyes, their position is very precarious. Their position is . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' We have no eyes to see. We see through Kṛṣṇa. As Kṛṣṇa sees, we see. This is Kṛṣṇa conscious. We are not perfect. Our position is that we are not perfect. But we are perfect so long we follow Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Just like I am blind man. I am not perfect. But if you have got eyes, if you take me, I follow you. Then I am perfect. Kṛṣṇa assures that, "You surrender to Me and I will make you free from all dangers," and we accept Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Our method is very easy. The child is walking, unable to walk, falling down. The parents say, father says, "My dear child, just catch my hand." Then he's safe. These Māyāvādīs, they go against the verdict of God. God says that "The living entities are My part and parcel," and they say, "I am God." So that is their foolishness. Part and parcel . . . Kṛṣṇa says, ''mamaivaṁso jīva-bhutaḥ'' ([[BG 15.7 (1972)|BG 15.7]]). Otherwise why God says, "Surrender unto Me," if you are equal with Him? Why God is asking, "Surrender unto Me"? You are not equal. You are rascal. You are claiming that, "I am equal." Otherwise there is no question of surrender. "You surrender unto Me." And this knowledge of surrender comes, Kṛṣṇa says, ''bahūnāṁ janmanām''. "This rascal is always thinking 'I am God, God, God.' This rascaldom is finished after many, many births, this ignorance." Then he surrenders. How the living entity is equal with God?

'''Brahmānanda:''' We should return, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

'''Dhṛṣṭaketu:''' Of course, they may say that, "Kṛṣṇa is just an ordinary man like me, and therefore He is asking . . ."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Therefore you are rascal. Kṛṣṇa is ordinary man, and He is lifting the hill.

'''Brahmānanda:''' Well, that's just a story in a book.

'''Prabhupāda:''' He may be story for you. You may not believe that you have got a father, but we are not mad. You can say, "To have a father is a story," but mother says, "No, you have your father." She is authority. You can say: "Oh, it is story."

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' They want a historical evidence for everything.

'''Brahmānanda:''' Yes. Why doesn't Kṛṣṇa come and do it now?

'''Prabhupāda:''' He is not your father's servant, that He will come by your order. He's the supreme master. Kṛṣṇa is doing the same thing still, but you have no eyes to see. Kṛṣṇa is doing. How this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is spreading all over the world?

'''Brahmānanda:''' Why doesn't God force me to surrender?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No. That Kṛṣṇa is not a nonsense like you. Because Kṛṣṇa has given you little freedom He does not want to touch it. That is Kṛṣṇa. What He gives, He never takes it back. It is not a nonsensical award, that "I give you sometimes; then I take it away." Kṛṣṇa does not do such. He has given you little freedom, so you can use it. ''Yathecchasi tathā kuru'' ([[BG 18.63 (1972)|BG 18.63]]), Kṛṣṇa says in the ''Bhagavad'', "Whatever you like, you do." That freedom is taken by nature. You are human being. If you do not engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then nature will withdraw this privilege and you'll become a dog. Kṛṣṇa does not take, but His agent, ''māyā'', will take it away. Just like the police is the agent of the king or the government. The government does not care what you are doing. But if you do something criminal, the police will punish you.

'''Brahmānanda:''' But we're going to change the laws of nature.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is another foolishness. (laughter) That is also replied, ''daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā dura'' . . . ([[BG 7.14 (1972)|BG 7.14]]). "You cannot do that, My dear sir. You rascal, you are thinking like that. That is not possible."

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' But they say they've already made so much progress.

'''Prabhupāda:''' You go on making progress, but you will never come to the ultimate goal. You can go on foolishly. That's all right. Just like they made progress, United Nation. What progress they have made? Huh?

'''Harikeśa:''' They made a nice building.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's right. (laughs) There are so many buildings.

'''Indian man (1):''' But they've been going to be assassinated.

'''Prabhupāda:''' When I go that building, United Nation, I see how they are wasting money. Yes, I see.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' They have a very big budget, United Nations, billions of . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Big, big. So many publications, so many big . . .

'''Indian man (1):''' They make everybody un-united.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh? Yes. Disunited.

Pṛthu-putra: You have written in one of your books that they are just becoming more flags instead of less.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Yes. They are increasing flags. Instead of one flag, they increasing flags. And they are trying for the last how many years? Thirty years?

'''Brahmānanda:''' Yes.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' To stop wars. But they haven't stopped a single war.

'''Dhṛṣṭaketu:''' But if Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme and I should surrender unto Him, then why is it so hard to find out this knowledge? Why is it that only in the human form of life . . .? Why is it so difficult to come to this knowledge if . . .?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Because you are rascal. For rascal everything is difficult. Easy thing is made difficult by rascals. That is the proof that you are rascal. By nature one is supposed to surrender to the parents. This is easy. Why do you do not do this? This is natural. Just like you have surrendered to me. Why? Because you think I am superior, you have to take knowledge from me. So if you have to accept some superior for your guidance, so how you can deny surrendering? You see ''brahmacārī'', he is being taught ''daṇḍavat śīraṣi'', by touching the head. Yesterday we were talking of that ''brahmacārī''? That is the instruction. (pause) Who is this boy?

'''Harikeśa:''' He's Kuṇḍalī. He just came from New York.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' He just came from New York. He's from the West In . . . He's a Commonwealth citizen. He's from the West Indies. He says he'll stay in India for the rest of his life.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, that's nice. So you are going to the magistrate? You have calculated?

'''Saurabha:''' Yeah. Ten thousand bags.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ten thousand bags. No, I wanted to construct this building with bricks.

'''Saurabha:''' Yes, but we have to make some slabs and some . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Slabs? So still you will require ten thousand?

'''Saurabha:''' No. If we do with mud, then it will be much less.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Not mud. The mortar means sand and cement.

'''Guṇārṇava:''' No plaster?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no. Plastering also.

'''Saurabha:''' No plastering.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, plastering also.

'''Saurabha:''' Yeah. But it comes to about eight thousand bags if I do the whole land like that around. That is the full thing, two stories. It comes to about eight thousand. And then there's always some extra for finalizing the floors . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no. I don't want to use this iron.

'''Saurabha:''' No, we don't require iron.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Simply brick. So in that way you still require ten thousand?

'''Saurabha:''' We require about eight thousand, but it's best to apply for ten thousand. If we only need five thousand, we take that. They will give us that allotment.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Do it. (break)

'''Dhṛṣṭaketu:''' (sounds of airplane going over) When Kṛṣṇa would play His flute, then the airplanes would be there.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Dhṛṣṭaketu:''' When Kṛṣṇa would play His flute then the airplanes would come and . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Where is Kṛṣṇa playing flute?

'''Dhṛṣṭaketu:''' In Vṛndāvana?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. Then why the airplanes do not come Delhi? (laughter) (pause) He is godless, and we have to fight against them. Just see our position. We have to fight with the whole world.

'''Indian man (1):''' Number of forces will increase day by day.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

'''Indian man (1):''' Number of forces are increasing day by day, but they will fight adequately.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' But you have done it single-handed, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Single-handed, double-handed, doesn't matter—if Kṛṣṇa is there in the background. Arjuna fought single-handed. Where is Praṇava? Kitna admi prasad paya kal? (How many people received ''prasādam'' yesterday?)

'''Indian man (1):''' Kal ka ek sau pacchis. (Yesterday, it was one hundred and twenty five.) Everyone was very much satisfied.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is wanted.

'''Indian man (1):''' They liked. (pause) Our Prabhupāda is kind enough to make so many . . . (indistinct) . . . to remove away all the evils of the world.

'''Prabhupāda:''' (aside) ''Jaya''. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)

740206 - Conversation - Vrndavana

2024-02-07T04:58:49Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"

[[Category:1974 - Conversations]]
[[Category:1974 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1974 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1974-02 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Conversations - India]]
[[Category:Conversations - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Hindi Snippets]]
[[Category:Audio Files 30.01 to 45.00 Minutes]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Conversations - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Conversations - by Date|Conversations by Date]], [[:Category:1974 - Conversations|1974]]'''</div>
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<div class="center">[[Vanipedia:740206 Conversation - Srila Prabhupada Speaks a Nectar Drop in Vrndavana|'''  <big>Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this lecture'''</big>]]</div>


<div class="code">740206R1-VRNDAVAN - February 06, 1974 - 31:26 Minutes</div>

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1974/740206R1-VRNDAVAN.mp3</mp3player>

'''Prabhupāda:''' My Godbrother's son-in-law, they came to see me.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Any service for me?

'''Prabhupāda:''' What you are doing there now?

'''Gurudāsa:''' Um, I've just been talking with Saurabha about the Māyāpur plans to present at this conference in Vancouver, acquisition. We're making a presentation there.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh.

'''Gurudāsa:''' So we're getting that together. Tomorrow I'm leaving.

'''Prabhupāda:''' For Vancouver?

'''Gurudāsa:''' No, I'm go . . . tomorrow I'm going to join Bhavānanda for a week, Bhavānanda Swami. Then I go to Delhi to see . . . and I'm also going to Bhuvaneśvara for Gopāla Kṛṣṇa. Then I'm going to Delhi to see that American Ambassador again about putting our name on the food list, Indo-American food list, then Vṛndāvana, then Vancouver.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So gradually there will be . . . (indistinct) . . . go where?

'''Gurudāsa:''' New York.

'''Prabhupāda:''' New York. Delhi to New York?

'''Gurudāsa:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then go to the Western . . . (indistinct)

'''Gurudāsa:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' New York then . . . (indistinct)

'''Gurudāsa:''' I think it is direct. That I can do.

'''Indian man:''' America chala jayega. (Went to America.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Idhar baithiye. Akele aya aap toh? (Sit here. You all came alone?) . . . (indistinct) . . . dekhiye kaise ye log sab prachaar kar rahe hai. (Just see how this boy is preaching.)

'''Indian man:''' Humare un karovar ke liye jaane ka vichaar tha wo toh kab jan jan ka sajjan hai. (I was thinking of going there for business purposes, but that will be after the business is established well, then we will see.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Kya? (What?)

'''Indian man:''' In relation with our business also, I am thinking of going.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No business. (laughter) Don't go. Business is this ''hari kīrtana''. Dekho ye log business sab jaante hai. Toh unse business kaun karega? (Just see, they know how to do business very well but who will do business with them?)

'''Guest (1):''' Anyway, kind of you. I just said that I had thought of that in my own different way also.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Business is bad.

'''Gurudāsa:''' People carry on business for happiness and enough to eat and enough clothing. That, no separate endeavor is necessary. Kṛṣṇa gives it all, and more happiness. We can attest to that because we did business. All of us were businessmen.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Humara ye sab prchar me kam se kam daily dus hazaaar aadmi ekhathe hote hai. Koi humara . . . (In our preaching program about ten thousand people attend everyday. Our nothing is) . . .

'''Guest (1):''' . . . koi kam nahi karta hai. (indistinct) . . . (Nothing falls short. The Lord only gives.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hum aise hi rehte hai. (indistinct) . . . (They stay here like this, they are all well educated people) . . . (indistinct) . . . oh, I see that are . . . (indistinct)

'''Guest (1):''' No, I am not leaving. Whether Kṛṣṇa gives me fifty rupees or five million rupees, it does not make much difference, because I am in the line, because I am in the line.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's all.

'''Guest (1):''' I may leave any time.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no, that's all right.

'''Guest (1):''' I may leave any time also.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is our purpose to do something.

'''Guest (1):''' Unfortunately some things happened, and some court matters are going on.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Court?

'''Guest (1):''' Court matters, some, some lawsuits, etc., which I have filed which aggregate to the extent of about ''crore'' rupees or so.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Guest (1):''' Oh, I mean I'll get that much. That could be as good amount as you file . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Where? Where? Your claim?

'''Guest (1):''' Yes, yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' You have to . . . you have to pay so much stamping fee.

'''Guest (1):''' No. The maximum stamp duty to be paid is fifteen thousand. Even if you've got a claim of fifteen ''crores'', fifteen thousand is the maximum stamp duty you have to pay. You don't have to pay more.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Fifteen thousand you have to pay?

'''Guest (1):''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Anartheno nyaya rohita . . . in this age, Kali.

'''Guest (1):''' (indistinct Hindi) . . . he owes me money, and I couldn't get my money back from him.

'''Prabhupāda:''' If you have no money, then you cannot get justice, because he's claiming after all it is right claim, but if he had no fifteen thousand, then he could not claim it. Fifteen thousand is there, then . . . vaqil (. . . lawyer) so on, so on. So anyone who has no money, he cannot get justice in Kali-yuga. Anartheno nyaya rohita. Nyay milega hi nahi (You will not get justice) . . . (indistinct)

'''Guest (1):''' A lot of that fifteen thousand is exempted in some spaces, but even then you have to field yourself two times . . . (indistinct) . . . and remain in the . . . I mean present yourself in the court in the mood to argue and talk and all that things. So naturally if you don't have even that much, you have to forego . . . (indistinct) . . . what you're saying is hundred percent true. It's like that.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. And nowadays bribe also.

'''Guest (1):''' Yeah. This is a must.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Fourth-class, ''śūdra'' . . . (indistinct) . . . bribe.

'''Guest (1):''' It is concerning one of the partners. . . . (indistinct) . . . another partner.

'''Guest (2):''' (indistinct) . . . they demand it as a bribe also.

'''Guest (1):''' (indistinct) . . . your partner like that?

'''Gurudāsa:''' Because blind leaders, we have allowed bribery to come about. In the passport line you have to stand because they suspect one thief. Every man who is a gentleman also has to stand and be inspected. It's Kali-yuga.

'''Guest (1):''' One thing is there: When I am worried about this thing or that thing, this is the place where I get peace of mind. I forget everything.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's a fact.

'''Guest (1):''' And I don't come here with any expectation, not for liberation or anyone or anything, this or that. I, what I get . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' If you're getting . . .

'''Guest (1):''' I am liberated that very day. I don't care about the liberation of tomorrow. Yeah, that's true.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Yes, I understand. We are in the same boat.

'''Guest (1):''' Actually you are much advanced, so it will be very difficult for you to . . . I am still at the lower level and struggling against those things.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Only advanced because I'm putting more time in. Otherwise, not more advanced.

'''Guest (1):''' Yeah. Capacity has improved. Our capacity is still limited. We are still embroiled in the . . .

'''Gurudāsa:''' Advanced means such-and-such a person has spent so many times in the business house, twenty-five years, he gets a gold watch. The only reason I may be more advanced is 'cause I get peace of mind, too, so I stay longer. I don't go. (break) . . . Prabhupada from 1923 to '37

'''Guest (2):''' We have got an appointment. We have got . . . (break)

'''Guest (3):''' . . . somewhere. Saturday they close at . . . by 3 or 3:30, so I want to go before that.

'''Prabhupāda:''' You can go before 3:30. There is no difficulty. Prasadam be ready by half past twelve, one (laughter)

'''Guest (3):''' No, why bother? . . . (indistinct Hindi)

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Prasāde sarva duḥkhānāṁ''. (laughter)

'''Guest (3):''' Hānir asyopajāyate.

'''Prabhupāda:''' I can tell you one practical. So I have seen this instrument. Destiny is very strong. ''Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha upapattaye'' ([[SB 3.31.1|SB 3.31.1]]). Therefore ''śāstra'' says that you try for that thing which was not possible in many other lives. In each life everyone gets father, mother, son, and the father's duty to son, son, that is going on. When you take birth as demigod—Indra, Candra, Varuṇa—or as human being or as animal, the care-taking business is there. Even the small ant during rainy season, when there is overflood, they take the eggs on the head—you have seen the red ant?—and finding out some place. The care-taking is there. Even the birds, a sparrow. So when their . . . the season for laying down eggs, they bring some straws and keep like that to make a nest for taking care of the eggs.

So this taking care by the father and mother, beginning from the ant up to the Indra, Candra ''devas'', that is there.

:''yas tv indragopam athavendram aho sva-karma-''
:''bandhānurūpa-phala-bhājanam ātanoti''
:''karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājāṁ''
:''govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi''
:(Bs. 5.54)

''Indra'', there is ''indragop'', one very small insect. It is also called ''indra, indragop'', insect. And another Indra is the King of heaven. So ''śāstra'' says from this Indra to that ''indra'', everyone is bound up by his ''karma''. It includes all others, from this ''indra'' to that Indra. ''Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām'' (Bs. 5.54). Everyone is bound up by the resultant action of his ''karma''. It cannot be changed.

So ''śāstra'' says don't try to change your ''karma-phala''. Better utilize that energy for becoming advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because you cannot change the destiny. That is not possible. Then shall I not endeavor for improvement of my economic . . . economic position? No. Why? I am, because destiny, whatever you have got your destiny, you'll get it. How shall I get it? Now suppose if you are put into some unwanted circumstances—you do not want it—you are forced to accept it. So similarly, as distressed condition comes upon you without your wanting, similarly, the position of happiness also will come , even you don't have to try for it. ''Tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukham'' ([[SB 1.5.18|SB 1.5.18]]). Just like distressed condition, unhappiness, nobody wants, but it comes by force. Similarly, the conditional happiness of life . . . because everyone's life is mixed up with some distress or happiness. Nobody can say: "I am simply happy." That is not possible. Distress is there, but nobody wants distress. But it comes. So why happiness will not come? So don't waste your time in this way, because you cannot change this. This will come, automatically. You try for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which you never tried. And that is recommended.

And there is a Bengali verse, ''janame janame sabe pitā mātā pāya'' (Prema-vivarta): to take care of oneself by the fathers, that is available in every life. Because the ant is also taking care. That is not human society, but he's still taking care. A tiger also taking care. The small cubs, they're loitering on the . . . on the body of the lion, and he is feeling very nice. Even monkeys, I have seen. One monkey came in the window, and she had one small child, and somehow or other the child came inside my room. She, that outside monkey, became mad after it. So I had to take . . . (laughs) The affection is there. The ant, they're affectionate; the snake affectionate; the tiger affectionate; the man is affectionate. That is given. Otherwise, who will take care? So therefore the Vaiṣṇava ''kavi'' says, ''janame janame sabe pitā mātā pāya:'' in every life you'll get father and mother and their protection; ''kṛṣṇe guru nahi mile bhaja hari ei:'' but in every life you cannot get Kṛṣṇa and ''guru'' take care of. Because unless you get Kṛṣṇa and ''guru'', then you are within the cycle of birth and death. And you get father and mother and their care, that is all right, but Kṛṣṇa-guru does not come in that way. That you have to search out. ''Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa brahmite kona bhāgyavān jīva guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti'' . . . ([[CC Madhya 19.151|CC Madhya 19.151]]). Because Kṛṣṇa-''guru'' will give you the nucleus of devotional life. So ''kṛṣṇa guru nahi mile bhaja hari ei'' (Prema-vivarta).

So actually, that is the fact. And I was going to tell about Śrīdhara Svāmī. Śrīdhara Svāmī was a great devotee, so he was thinking of taking ''sannyāsa''. So he was contemplating that, "I shall now leave my home and take ''sannyāsa''." So in the meantime, his wife became pregnant. Then he thought that, "I was thinking like that. Anyway, this has happened, and if I take ''sannyāsa'' now, what people will say, that 'His wife is pregnant and he has taken ''sannyāsa'', he has gone out of home.' " So he waited, the child was born, and the mother died. (laughing) Then he thought, "I do not know what Kṛṣṇa desires. Who will take care of this child, motherless child?" So that he was thinking very deeply. One lizard dropped before him, one small child lizard. Maane, (Means,) gave birth to a child this small, and the small lizard was staying, and immediately small ant came before the mouth of that small lizard, and he ate. Then Śrīdhara Svāmī thought, "The every arrangement is there. Why I am thinking of this and that?" Immediately went away. Actually, that is the position. The actual care is taken by Kṛṣṇa, ''eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān'', ''nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām'' (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He is taking care of everyone.

Best thing is that we should devote our life for awakening Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This human life is meant for that purpose. By nature's way, ''prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ'' ([[BG 3.27 (1972)|BG 3.27]]), nature is bringing us. As soon as we become sinful, we are dropped down to suffer the sequence of sinful life in different varieties. Again, just like a man, criminal, is put into the jail, but when his term is finished, again he is made free. Similarly, the cycle of birth and death, ''dehāntara-prāptiḥ, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ'' ([[BG 2.13 (1972)|BG 2.13]]), one after another, is going on. So the animal life means reaction of sinful life, and upper class of life, demigods, means result of pious life. Two kinds of things are there, sinful and pious, through the cycle of birth is going on. But this human form of life or above human form of life, it is a chance for understanding the real value of life, and therefore for human beings there are guidances, these ''Vedas, Purāṇas, Vedānta-sūtra''. It is meant for the human beings, not for the cats and dogs. ''Anādi-bahirmukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gela ataeva kṛṣṇa veda-purāṇa kaila''.

So it is recommended in the human form of life first of all training as a ''brahmacārī'', then he may remain as ''gṛhastha'' for sometime. The life is divided into four parts, twenty-five years. Suppose I live a hundred years: twenty-five years to become ''brahmacārī'', remain as ''brahmacārī;'' and twenty-five years to remain as ''gṛhastha'', family man; and twenty-five years as ''vānaprastha''; and twenty-five years as ''sannyāsa''. This is system, Vedic system. Sannyāsa means.. ''vānaprastha'' is the preparation for ''sannyāsa'', and ''sannyāsa'' means completely dedicated to the service of Kṛṣṇa. This is our system. Just like you are spirit soul. Our business is not here. Our business in the spiritual world. Here, by circumstances, you have fallen into the material condition, but if we take, "This is all-in-all our duty," that is not advised in the ''śāstra''. It is circumstances. We have fallen into . . . under certain circumstances, so we have to take care of. The real duty is to how to save myself from this material entanglement.

So our this institution, that is our ambition, that we are giving . . . trying to give facilities, at least to some intending person, especially retired person, to take advantage of this institution. As far as possible live, for we have got rooms like that. Live there and take little ''prasādam'', and fully devote time how to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is success of life. So it is authorized by the ''śāstras, pañcāśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet''. Therefore you'll find still. But now the things have changed that every holy places there are so many men retired. (break)

'''Pradyumna:'''

:. . . ''yuyutsuṁ samupasthitam''
:''sīdanti mama gātrāṇi''
:''mukhaṁ ca pariśuṣyati''
:([[BG 1.28 (1972)|BG 1.28]])

(break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' ". . . with my family member shall come to fight with me, so what shall I say, that I have to kill my nephew, I have to kill my brother, I have to kill my grandfather, this is the fight? No, no, I am not going to fight, let them all die." That is natural. So read it.

'''Pradyumna:'''

:''vepathuś ca śarīre me''
:''roma-harṣaś ca jāyate''
:''gāṇḍīvaṁ sraṁsate hastāt''
:''tvak caiva paridahyate''
:([[BG 1.29 (1972)|BG 1.29]])

'''Prabhupāda:''' "So how can I kill my brother and nephew and others, family members? So my bow is dropping." Go on.

'''Pradyumna:'''

:''na ca śaknomy avasthātuṁ''
:''brahmatīva ca me manaḥ''
:''nimittāni ca paśyāmi''
:''viparītāni keśava''
:([[BG 1.30 (1972)|BG 1.30]])

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, ''viparītāni''. "I came to fight, to gain my kingdom, but I see the opposite." ''Viparītāni''. "I'll not be able to enjoy my kingdom by killing them." That thing is said there. Go on.

'''Pradyumna:''' Ah, translation?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no. You can go on.

'''Pradyumna:'''

:''na ca śreyo 'nupaśyāmi''
:''hatvā sva-janam āhave''
:''na kāṅkṣe vijayaṁ kṛṣṇa''
:''na ca rājyaṁ sukhāni ca''
:([[BG 1.31 (1972)|BG 1.31]])

'''Prabhupāda:''' Translation.

'''Pradyumna:''' "I do not see how any good can come from killing my own kinsmen in this battle, nor can I, my dear Kṛṣṇa, desire any subsequent victory, kingdom or happiness."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Naturally this will be. Then?

'''Pradyumna:'''

:''kiṁ no rājyena govinda''
:''kiṁ bhogair jīvitena vā''
:''yeṣām arthe kāṅkṣitaṁ no''
:''rājyaṁ bhogāḥ sukhāni ca''
:([[BG 1.32-35 (1972)|BG 1.32]])

'''Prabhupāda:''' Generally we improve our material condition just to become happy with relatives. When we construct a new house, we invite relatives. So they may come, they will say: "Oh, you have done very nice," and he is also pleased, "My relatives, they have seen." But "If all the relatives are killed, then how it will be possible for me to enjoy the kingdom?" ''Yeṣām arthe kāṅkṣitam rājyam''.

'''Pradyumna:''' ''Bhogāḥ sukhāni ca.''

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, ''bhogāḥ sukhāni ca''. Then?

'''Pradyumna:''' ''Ta ime 'vasthitā yuddhe''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' "They, for whom I wanted this kingdom, they are in my path. I have to kill them. So what kind of fight is this?" Then?

'''Pradyumna:'''

:. . . ''prāṇāṁs tyaktvā dhanāni ca''
:''ācāryāḥ pitaraḥ putrās''
:''tathaiva ca pitāmahāḥ''

:mātulāḥ śvaśurāḥ pautrāḥ
:śyālāḥ sambandhinas tathā . . .
:([[BG 1.32-35 (1972)|BG 1.33-34]])

'''Prabhupāda:''' "I have to kill them, all the religious and family members." Then?

'''Pradyumna:''' ''Etān na hantum icchāmi''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' "I don't like. I don't want this fight." (laughs) Then?

'''Pradyumna:''' ''Ghnato 'pi madhusūdana.''

'''Prabhupāda:''' "Then let them kill me. I'll tolerate that. But I am not going to kill them." Then?

'''Pradyumna:'''

:''api trailokya-rājyasya''
:''hetoḥ kiṁ nu mahī-kṛte''
:''nihatya dhārtarāṣṭrān naḥ''
:''kā prītiḥ syāj janārdana''
:([[BG 1.32-35 (1972)|BG 1.35]])

'''Prabhupāda:''' So in this way he decided, or he made a plan, not to kill. From superficial, material point of view, he was very nice gentleman. But Kṛṣṇa actually chastised, ''kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam, aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś'' . . . ([[BG 2.11 (1972)|BG 2.11]]): "You are talking like a very learned man, but you are fool number one." This is the instruction of ''Bhagavad-gītā''. And then at last He said that "The most confidential part of knowledge I am telling you," ''sarva-dharmān parityajya mām e'' . . . ([[BG 18.66 (1972)|BG 18.66]]): "What I say, you do. That means I am asking you to kill, you do that." So he said, ''kariṣye vacanam'', "Yes." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "I do not like to do it, but Kṛṣṇa wants me to do, all right." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is very difficult. (laughing) I do not like to do, but Kṛṣṇa likes to do, I have to do it. This decision is very good. (break) . . . a Kṛṣṇa conscious person, a devotee, is prepared to do anything nonsense for Kṛṣṇa, even in the estimation of ordinary person. People ask me that "You are spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness and He is, say, encouraging war," because they have got experience of the last two wars in Western country. So when Kṛṣṇa encouraging the war, they do not take it very nicely. "What kind of God He is?" They have suffered in the war, and then we are presenting a God who is encouraging war. So there was one lawyer, you know, Goldsmith. He helped me, incorporated this . . .

'''Devotee:''' In New York.

'''Prabhupāda:''' New York, yes. He was very good friend. So he was asking that, "How it is good, Swāmījī, that Kṛṣṇa is encouraging war, fight?" Although Arjuna was making his own plan not to fight, Kṛṣṇa took the trouble for instructing him ''Gītā'' and then inducing him to change his plan, "Go on, fight!" (end)

750828 - Morning Walk - Vrndavana

2024-02-07T04:58:49Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"

[[Category:1975 - Morning Walks]]
[[Category:1975 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1975 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1975-08 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Morning Walks - India]]
[[Category:Morning Walks - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Hindi Snippets]]
[[Category:1975 - New Audio - Released in May 2014]]
[[Category:Audio Files 30.01 to 45.00 Minutes]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Morning Walks - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Morning Walks - by Date|Morning Walks by Date]], [[:Category:1975 - Morning Walks|1975]]'''</div>
{{RandomImage}}


<div class="center">[[Vanipedia:750828b Morning Walk - Srila Prabhupada Speaks a Nectar Drop in Vrndavana|'''  <big>Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this lecture'''</big>]]</div>


<div class="code">750828MW-VRNDAVAN - August 28, 1975 - 30:15 Minutes</div>

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1975/750828MW-VRNDAVAN.mp3</mp3player>

'''Dhanañjaya:''' This morning, the Deities, greeting will be at seven o'clock.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Dhanañjaya:''' We will greet the Deities at seven o'clock this morning, so there will be no delay.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' I said in America, in nearly all temples, the Deities are greeted at seven o'clock.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. (break) . . . speak, why he is purchasing? They will cheat.

'''Dhanañjaya:''' He speaks a little Hindi. This is Asita.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' (calls to him) Asita. (man talking in Hindi in background)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Go on. What is the trouble? See. (break)

'''Dhanañjaya:''' They stop everyone so they can extract taxes from them. They want to stop every single person, even the buffalo carts. (break)

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' (to Life Member) There was no trouble. It's okay now.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Jaya. Thank you.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' He's a Life Member from Nellore.

'''Indian Life Member:''' Nellore, Andhra Pradesh.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Thank you.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' He has come to live in our temple.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So he has come?

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes.

'''Indian Life Member:''' I am very fortunate that Swāmījī has come from America. I was inquiring about you all these years. I wanted to come here in April also, when the temple was being opened. At that time I had some work, therefore I couldn't come.

'''Prabhupāda:''' What you are doing there?

'''Indian Life Member:''' I am retired labor officer in the state government.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. So you can live here, retired life?

'''Indian Life Member:''' By the grace of your . . . and the blessings of your . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. You are welcome.

'''Indian Life Member:''' I'll be staying here for ten days.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Why ten days? Live here for ten years. (laughter)

'''Indian Life Member:''' If you please, I have no objections.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, we want many educated men to understand this philosophy and preach. People are . . . whole world, they are in ignorance, the value of life. ''Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke'' ([[SB 10.84.13|SB 10.84.13]]). They are accepting this body as self. The whole trouble is there. So-called scientist, philosopher—everyone is thinking, "I am this body," and therefore there is so much trouble. They do not know what he is and what is his goal of life, how life should be molded. No knowledge. Therefore vigorous preaching is required. Our Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is that, that all people are suffering. There is little knowledge in India. So anyone who has taken his birth in India, he should make his life perfect by studying this Vedic literature and then spread the knowledge all over the world. Because they are in ignorance. Here also now they are ignorant. They do not know what is the value of life, thinking like cats and dogs. What is your idea about the value of life?

'''Indian Life Member:''' Unless it is very towards God, it is useless.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Indian Life Member:''' Constant thinking of Him, His lotus feet, it is the only way by which we can get the real benefit of getting this human life.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. And where is that education?

'''Indian Life Member:''' That is real education.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is . . . but where is that education? There is no such education all over the world.

'''Indian Life Member:''' Only great ''gurus'' like you can enlighten the whole world. Only very rarely such people comes only for the benefit of the people . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's all right, but those who are leaders, those who are leading the people, they are not interested. They are misleading.

'''Indian Life Member:''' You can beg them interest, only if everything nice with you.

'''Prabhupāda:''' (aside) About fan? Sometimes this side, sometimes that side. Near the head.

'''Indian Life Member:''' I not praising of Swāmījī . . . I think no . . . so many saints are in India, so many great ṛṣis are there. Nobody were able to propagate or bring this consciousness among the people of the worlds as you did. It is a great credit to India. That is what I feel personally.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Do you think like that?

'''Indian Life Member:''' Yes, I feel. In the heart of hearts I feel like that. I am very happy to see you and to have your blessings. And I think that the whole world will be blessed or be benefited by your presence. I think we must take opportunity of utilizing your service and get benefit. That is what I feel.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that every Indian should do like that. I am only one Indian. If I can do as, according to your estimate, so much, so if every Indian does like that . . .

'''Indian Life Member:''' Unless he has been directed by God. He must be . . . (indistinct) . . . His direction.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, God is directing. This is the direction of God.

'''Indian Life Member:''' Only through you they will get that. Only people like you can relate with . . . it is dormant. The soul is there, and it is in a dormant stage. Unless it is kindled, it cannot have light. People like you can kindle it. And it is really our fortune that we are having Swāmījī with us. There was some ''ṛṣi''. Even our Samanja Ācārya or his ''guru'', they were not able to carry this to outside India. But you are able to, with all your . . . I think you are . . . is it not said that you are an incarnation of God or you are deputy of God, is it?

'''Prabhupāda:''' (laughs) Don't say like that.

'''Indian Life Member:''' You are deputy of God, and He is making you true. Swāmījī will be staying here for another two months?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. I wish to.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Have you seen that land which has been given to us in Nellore?

'''Indian Life Member:''' Yes, it is very near to me. You see, in Nellore, one lady has donated about ninety acres of land.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' With a house.

'''Indian Life Member:''' With a house which will cost nearly four or five lakhs or even more. Yes. Very costly. And they also . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Which season is good? I shall go there.

'''Indian Life Member:''' Yes, sir. You are welcome.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' When is a good time? When is the weather the best?

'''Indian Life Member:''' Best time is September, October. Of course, there will be little rain. In December generally it will be little chill, but not as chill as in the other parts.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So what is the best season?

'''Indian Life Member:''' Best season, from August to September. That is the best season. And I wish our ''gurujī'' to visit our temple, Lord of ''Samhis'', and you must see.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Where is that temple?

'''Indian Life Member:''' Lord Veṅkaṭeśvara temple. That is the richest temple in the whole world.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Bālajī?

'''Indian Life Member:''' Bālajī.

'''Prabhupāda:''' I have seen it.

'''Indian Life Member:''' Oh. When did you see?

'''Prabhupāda:''' I think when . . .

'''Indian Life Member:''' Last year or . . .?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Not two years. A little more than one year. Hmm? (everyone talking at once about rain)

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' It's starting to rain, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So we shall return?

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' We can be near the temple . . .

'''Indian Life Member:''' I think rain will not come. (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Accha so jaatey hain tabhi idhar aate hain. (Okay, we will sleep and then we will come here.)

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' There is one house on that land, isn't there?

'''Indian Life Member:''' Yes, yes, one house on the land. And she wants to dedicate all of the property to the author of that books. That is the will.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So we shall organize it very nicely.

'''Indian Life Member:''' And our Mahāṁśa Swami is taking very much interest. He is often coming to Nellore. 26th of last month the land was registered and the registration took place.

'''Brahmānanda:''' In the name of ISKCON?

'''Indian Life Member:''' ISKCON.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes. It's already done.

'''Indian Life Member:''' Registration already done.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So in September let us go there.

'''Indian Life Member:''' And in October about 16th you can see about Bālajī's festival, about ten days.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. It is near?

'''Indian Life Member:''' It is about eighty miles from Nellore.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Rain is coming?

'''Devotees:''' Yes.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' We've had a lot of rain this last year, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (wind sound, sound of heavy rain) (indistinct comments by devotees) (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' It was raining? That's it. (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . ''parikramā''?

'''Dhanañjaya:''' Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. That was to the old Yamunā trail.

'''Prabhupāda:''' We can go?

'''Dhanañjaya:''' Yes.

'''British devotee (1):''' The Yamunā's only five minutes walk from Raman Reti now, Prabhupāda. It's very nice for swimming. (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . able to walk with us, why you have brought him? It will be strain for him.

'''Brahmānanda:''' The other day he came on the walk, the first day. (break)

'''Dhanañjaya:''' The sands of Raman Reti where Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma would enjoy Their pastimes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. Therefore we have established Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma temple.

'''Dhanañjaya:''' The sands are very fine and soft here.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sands are always soft. (break) . . . old house. (break)

'''Dhanañjaya:''' . . . been all jungle like this at one time.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm? Gardens, not jungle.

'''Dhanañjaya:''' Not jungle. Forest.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Vana means forest. What is this?

'''Dhanañjaya:''' This is garden.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Acala-vihāra Gosvāmī. (break)

'''Dhanañjaya:''' . . . and down here where they're growing about two acres of ''tulasī''. They just grow tulasī plants for the temples, for Bankibehari and other temples. The fragrance is so nice.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. (break) . . . built. Nobody living. Only locked.

'''Dhanañjaya:''' This is where the gardener keeps his tools. (break) . . . in there, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, there. (break) Tired. (break) Now you can take him back. (child crying)

'''Dhanañjaya:''' Did the Yamunā River used to . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' I do not know.

'''Dhanañjaya:''' . . . flow in this part?

'''Prabhupāda:''' How this building could be constructed? (break) . . . a strong-built wall, and the tree has grown from there.

'''Dhanañjaya:''' That means it must be very old wall, because now they are not building such strong walls. (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Rādhāballabha. (break) Real reminiscence of Vṛndāvana.

'''Brahmānanda:''' It's a real what?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Reminiscence.

'''Brahmānanda:''' In this area? (break) . . . in the Kṛṣṇa book are like this. (break)

'''Dhanañjaya:''' It's a colony of birds.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Babui. They create such nest, hanging nest. It is very nice fiber, fabricated. They know the art, simply by beaks. They have no hand. They want . . . they work only with the beaks, and you see the workmanship. Is our men going?

'''Dhanañjaya:''' Yes. Because the Yamunā is just close.

'''Akṣayānanda:''' Very close down that way. (break)

'''Dhanañjaya:''' Fertile. Very fertile land. (break) . . . used for mooring boats.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Dhanañjaya:''' Perhaps it was used for mooring boats when the river was there.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, it is said that Yamunā was navigable river. Hmm?

'''Brahmānanda:''' I was just wondering how they were mooring boats to this thing.

'''Prabhupāda:''' It is well.

'''Devotee (2):''' There's a frog that lives down there.

'''Prabhupāda:''' I think we shall return. I am getting tired. (break) But how strongly built it is. You see? What was the mortar? Mortar, it is called? That is Madana-mohana temple. (break) . . . also good dantana. They use.

'''Dhanañjaya:''' What do they use?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Dantana.

'''Dhanañjaya:''' For cleaning teeth?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. It is good . . . for those who are soft gum, it is good medicine.

'''Devotee (2):''' Nim leaves?

'''Dhanañjaya:''' No, the sticks, twigs. (break)

'''Brahmānanda:''' . . . auspicious to see a calf drinking milk?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. But there is no milk. (laughter) (break) Somebody should give me daily one fresh nim stem. Ask somebody. (break) Everything you have to do?

'''Dhanañjaya:''' I can learn from Brahmānanda Mahārāja. I can learn from Brahmānanda how to break it and make it ready.

'''Brahmānanda:''' No, no, just bring . . . Prabhupāda will arrange that. You just bring the branch.

'''Dhanañjaya:''' All right.

'''Prabhupāda:''' There are so many nim trees.

'''Harikeśa:''' You were telling us last year about nim leaves being very good for the stomach.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, yes.

'''Harikeśa:''' Would you like some? We can bring you some nim leaves?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, little paste I can take.

'''Harikeśa:''' Mash it in like a nim chutney.

'''Dhanañjaya:''' Mortar and pestle.

'''Harikeśa:''' Put anything else in it?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No. A small pill. It increases appetite. Which way? This way?

'''Harikeśa:''' This way. (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . know how to make ''khicuṛi''?

'''Harikeśa:''' Yes. I made for you in Hawaii.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah. So do it today. ''Khicuṛi'' and eggplant, fried, and some vegetables. That's all. I'll take between one, half past one. So begin about . . .

'''Harikeśa:''' Twelve-thirty?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. I shall go this way or that way? Whose, this garden? Where is our temple?

'''Dhanañjaya:''' Our temple is behind the trees. (break) Two trees in one. One tree is growing out of the other tree.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. Why they have become two? Not from sentiment, but scientific?

'''Dhanañjaya:''' The seed must have been deposited in the bark and then taken root.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Because they are different seed, different tree.

'''Brahmānanda:''' Individual.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh? Individual. And the specific individuality is there in the seed. Even if you grow together they will come differently.

'''Brahmānanda:''' Same earth is there, same water, everything same. But the seed is different.

'''Prabhupāda:''' But they will say "by chance." Chance theory. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

'''Harikeśa:''' There is also that phenomenon, they say "identical twins." When two brothers are born together they say: "Identical twins."

'''Dhanañjaya:''' Why does that happen, that there are two brothers who are identically looking the same in features?

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is not difficult. In the same tree, the same semen.

'''Dhanañjaya:''' Because the living entity had the same desire? Two living entities having the same desire for the same body?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. Hare Rāma. (many people passing by) They are going to take water from Yamunā or some from well?

'''Dhanañjaya:''' From a well. There's just a well around the corner.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. They are all going to Yamunā. (break)

'''Dhanañjaya:''' That lady was from Manipur.

'''Harikeśa:''' Viśvambhara lives here. (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . can . . . very nice blackboard.

'''Brahmānanda:''' ''Hut! Hut!''

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, just . . . why it is thrown away?

'''Viśāla:''' ''Jaya'' Prabhupāda.

(children greet Prabhupāda)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)

771030 - Conversation A - Vrndavana

2024-02-07T04:58:47Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"

[[Category:1977 - Conversations]]
[[Category:1977 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1977 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1977-10 - Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Conversations - India]]
[[Category:Conversations - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Bengali Snippets]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Hindi Snippets]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with both Bengali and Hindi Snippets]]
[[Category:Audio Files 90.01 Minutes or More]]
[[Category:1977 - New Audio - Released in July 2012]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Conversations - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Conversations - by Date|Conversations by Date]], [[:Category:1977 - Conversations|1977]]'''</div>
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<div class="code">771030R1-VRNDAVAN - October 30, 1977 - 92:02 Minutes</div>

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1977/771030R1-VRNDAVAN.mp3</mp3player>

'''Pañca-draviḍa:''' Now only one thing is needed, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Pañca-draviḍa:''' To have you sitting on the vyāsāsana and preaching like a lion.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, I wanted to say something. Let us see. (break)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' (devotees laugh) We had no father, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is another thing.

'''Pañca-draviḍa:''' And no money also. (laughing)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' No. We were vagabonds. We were loitering in the street, and you invited us into your home. That's actually a fact. You fed us ''prasādam'', cooked for us. You taught us how to be human beings.

'''Pañca-draviḍa:''' Just like these ''gurukula'' kids. You have also taught us even how to dress ourself.

'''Jayādvaita:''' And you brought us to Vṛndāvana, richest place.

'''Pañca-draviḍa:''' Full of desire trees and jewels.

'''Prabhupāda:''' You can provide five hundred students very easily.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Such a nice building. Who would not like to go to school here in Vṛndāvana? Nice, pure atmosphere. (break)

'''Vṛndāvana De:''' Tahole aschi baba. (So I am leaving father.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm? (What?)

'''Vṛndāvana De:''' Tahole jachhi. (I am leaving.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Kothai jabe? (Where will you go?)

'''Vṛndāvana De:''' Delhi jachhi, okhan theke kalke chole jabo. (I am going to Delhi, from there I will go.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ha? (What?)

'''Śatadhanya:''' . . . Vṛndāvana, he's going to Delhi. From Delhi he'll go to Calcutta.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. Oh, Vṛndāvana.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Tomader keu . . . (indistinct) . . . hobe ne? (None of you . . . (indistinct) . . . will it not ?)

'''Vṛndāvana De:''' Na mane, asha korechilam , ei taka ta to ferot ditei esechilam. (No actually I expected, I just came to return this money.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ferot to dite parbena baba. (You will not be able to return it my child.)

'''Vṛndāvana De:''' Na eta to deboi. Er thekei dea debo. (No no, surely I will return. From this I will give.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Kichui dite parbe na . . . (indistinct) . . . eto taka neacho. Ponchas hazar taka already neacho. Kichui korte paro ni . . . (indistinct) . . . pach hazar deachi, dosh hazar deachi. Mal deachi pochis hazar. Tarpor finance korechi . . . where is the money? We cannot put fire in the flesh. (You will not be able to return anything . . . (indistinct) . . . you have taken so much money. Already you have taken fifty thousand rupees. You couldn't make any use of it . . . (indistinct) . . . have given you five thousand, have given you ten thousand. Have given you goods worth rupees twenty five thousand. Then again have financed you . . . where is the money? We cannot put fire in the flesh.)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' (quietly) Can't put good money after bad money.

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . (indistinct) . . . tar cheye bose bose khao. Paro jodi vaishnavr chele vaishnab hoye harinam karo. Khabar thakbar osubidha nei. Thako anonde . . . (indistinct) . . . hoye gache, seba karo, bhog dao, khao . . . (indistinct) . . . tomar to khabar thakbar osubidha nei . . . (indistinct) . . . kono record nei kichhu nei. (. . . (indistinct) . . . better you just stay home idly and eat. You are the son of a vaisnava, if possible become a vaisnava and chant the name of Hari. You have no problem regarding accommodation and food. Stay happily . . . (indistinct) . . . it's done, do ''seva'', offer ''bhoga'' and then take ''prasada'' . . . (indistinct) . . . you have no worry for fooding and lodging . . . (indistinct) . . . there is no record of it, nothing.)

'''Vṛndāvana De:''' Na tettirish percent to bank er amount sob . . . amake je . . . (indistinct) . . . tar sathe ekta system e kore nebo. (No thirty three percent the bank takes from us . . . he who has made me . . . (indistinct) . . . I will make a system with him.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Keno baje kotha bolcho. (Why are you talking nonsense.)

'''Vṛndāvana De:''' Na na kore . . . (No no, I will do . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ohetuk baje kotha . . . (Illogical useless talk . . .)

'''Vṛndāvana De:''' Kichu taka dekhate hobe . . . (indistinct) . . . (Have to show some money . . . (indistinct) . . .)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Upendra, you should get Prabhupāda ready, because the ''parikramā's'' ready.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Bose bose khabe, thakbe abar business korbar ki dorkar? (You just stay at home idly and eat, what is the need for doing business?)

'''Vṛndāvana De:''' Bose bose khabar . . . (Just stay home idly and eat . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Paro to chakri koro . . . (indistinct) . . . (If you can, take up some job . . . (indistinct) . . .) (break) . . . (indistinct)

'''Kavirāja:''' Accha. uska intazam aaj hi kar deta hai. usme baithne se parishram hota hai thoda sa. aise kaf nikal jate hain na. (Okay, I will make arrangements for that today only. It takes effort to sit in that. Does the phlegm comes out?)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Kaaf to nahi, ahut takleef se nikalta hai. thoda kuch nikala. (Phlegm comes out with great difficulty. little bit came out.)

'''Kavirāja:''' Taklif se nikalta hai. Thoda kuch nikla? (Oh, it comes out with difficulty. Little bit came out?)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Little swelling around the . . .

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Eyelid.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' There's a little swelling today here, Śrīla Prabhupāda, around the eye. And the hands are kind of swollen.

'''Kavirāja:''' Ye haat wala to kum hua hai. jaise jaise sun padega na waise wasie kum ho jayega. samajhte hain na. (This hand swelling has come down. as it gets sunlight it keeps on reducing. Do you understand?)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' What's that, Bhakti-caru?

'''Bhakti-caru:''' When the skin sags, that means that it's . . .

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Going away. Yeah, but here it's . . .

'''Bhakti-caru:''' I was telling him that it comes and goes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yeah, it comes and goes. But in the eye it's very much today.

'''Kaviraja:''' Tatti hua? (Did you pass stool?)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Nahi. (No.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Parson hua tha. (Did he pass stool day before yesterday?)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Parso? (Day before yesterday?) No . . . very little in the morning.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Thoda sa. (Only a little.)

'''Kavirāja:''' To abhi jo medicine banaya hai na wo payr se neeche-neeche lagayenge. usko thoda garam karke thoda-thoda lep laga denge. (So the medicine which I have prepared now should be applied below the knees. Warm it up a little and apply it little by little.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Aur paanv ke neeche. accha wo to gau-mutra ke saath. (And below the foot. It should be mixed with the urine of the cow.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Gau-mutra nahi pani ke saath. (Not with cow urine but water.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Abhi laga de. (Should I apply now.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Haan, abhi laga dijiye. (Yes you can apply now.)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda? I think the ''kavirāja'' had a dream last night. (to kavirāja) You had a dream.

'''Bhakti-caru:''' ''Svapna''.

'''Kavirāja:''' Hum to bahut aaj subah sakal me 4.30 baje aisa drshya hua ki ye swasth ho rahe hain. (I had a dream early in the morning at 4.30. The picture before my eyes was that he is getting better.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Khansi ye aaj se aane laga hai kya? Hmm tat tu nahi . . . (indistinct) . . . (verse) ye khansi aaj se shuru hua hai? (Is he having the cough since today? . . . (indistinct) . . . (verse) This cough ,did it start from today?)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Haan. (Yes.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Subah baad me, raat ko tha? (After the morning hour, it was at night.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Abhi-abhi shuru hua hai. (It has started now.) (Age chilo ki Srila Prabhupāda? (Did this cough began earlier Srila Prabhupāda?) Nahi, abhi shuru hua hai. (No, it has started just now.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Wo aaj hi control kar lega isko. (It will be controlled today.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Ye khansi hone se bahut takleef ho jayega. Wo nikalta nahi hai aur neend bhi nahi aata hai. Khansi-khansi. Khansi ka ye kahani hai ki lens me kuch kamzori hai. turant sardi lagne se kya hota hai iska effect aur koi thanda cheez dene se ye sab milkar unko shayad . . . (If he has this cough then he suffers a lot. It does not come out and he does not get proper sleep. Coughing all the time. The story of cough is that in the lens there is weakness. If he immediately catches a cold then what will happen? The effect of this, if he is given something cold then together he might . . .)

'''Kaviraja:''' Kamjori rehne se, agni-dript nahi rehne se chahe jo bimari chahe jis time me aa jata hai. (Because of weakness, there is no touch of warmth so any illness can come at any time.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Doodh kya thanda hai? (Does the milk considered cold?)

'''Kaviraja:''' Han, doodh thanda hai. (Yes the milk is cold.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' To isiliye hua hai. Doodh dene se khasi ho jata hai. (So that is why it happened. If he takes milk then he gets cough.)

'''Kaviraja:''' To ek kaam kijiye. Barley to aaj hai nahi. Barley ke andar thoda quantity, ek chamach-do chamach. Zyada mat dijiye. (So do one thing. There is no barley today. In the barley add 1 to 2 spoons of Horlicks. Don't give him too much.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Horlicks?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Horlicks, not milk.

'''Kaviraja:''' Nahi horlicks theek hai. Usme vitamin vagairah mila hua hai, theek hai. (No, Horlicks is alright. Certain vitamins are there in it. It is alright.)

'''Pañca-draviḍa:''' He likes Horlicks.

'''Bhakti-caru:''' The doctor said he should take Horlicks and barley, little bit.

'''Kavirāja:''' Waise thoda-thoda . . . tendency rehta hai, thoda rehta hai? (So little by little. The tendency is there, a little bit remains.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Thoda han. Thoda rehta hai. (Little yes. Little tendency is there.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Is age me jo hai na (verse) is samay kuch kafa ki aur vayu ki . . . 70 ke bad me rehti hai. Ye prakrtik hai. (At this age (verse) at this time some kafa and some gas . . . after the age of 70 it is there. This is the nature.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Accha ek doctor ne bola tha ki cough jab hoga to baye taraf letake rakhenge. To subah . . . (Okay. One doctor said that when a cough is there, then turn him over on the left side. So in the morning . . .)

'''Kaviraja:''' Nahi, theek hai. (No, it is okay.) . . . (indistinct conversation)

'''Prabhupāda:''' About that distilling machine?

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Srila Prabhupāda ekhane je . . . (indistinct) . . . mondire je ye achhe, boidyo ji achhen, uni otar byabostha korben. Ami lok pathiechi onar kache. Uni o asben ajke. (The . . . (indistinct) . . . temple that is there Srila Prabhupāda, one ayurvedic doctor is there, he will arrange it. I have sent one person to him. He will also come today.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Baidya ji kalke unake bole eschilen, to se, aste sokale ajke. Ami gari pathiechi. Vrindaban babu ke pouche dea, gari nea asbe oke, ferar pothe. (This ayurvedic doctor asked him yesterday to come to see you today in the morning. I have sent a car. After dropping off Mr. Vrindaban at his destination, on the way back, the car will bring him up here.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Kal to lauki ki sabzi thoda sa khaye the unhone. Aaj bhi doon kya? (Yesterday he had a little bit of bottle gourd curry. Shall I give him today also?)

'''Kaviraja:''' Aaj kya ruchi hai Mahārāja? (What do you want to have today Mahārāja?)

'''Prabhupada:''' . . . (indistinct Hindi)

'''Kaviraja:''' Aur koi ruchi ho khane ki. (Would you like to any other thing?)

'''Prabhupada:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Haan Srila Prabhupad? (Yes Srila Prabhupāda?)

'''Prabhupada:''' Kal to lauki khaye the. (Yesterday I had taken a gourd.) (laughing)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Thoda sa doodh ke saath papaya deke, papita diye the. (Gave him a little bit of milk with papaya.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Inka ruchi ho ohi chij dena hai. (Whatever he likes to eat, that should be given.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Hum soch rahe the thoda sa doodh diya jaye. (I was thinking of giving him little milk.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Ab thoda sa de sakte hain to intezam to kar denge doodh ke saath me khansi . . . (If you want to give him milk now, then I can arrange for it but with a milk cough . . .)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Aaccha khansi me dahi kya. (Can we give him curd when he has a cough.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Nahi, dahi nahi. (No, no curd.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Thoda doodh, papita aur madhu ek saath milake. (A little bit of milk, papaya and honey mixed together.)

'''Kaviraja:''' To inka ruchi ho, khane ka ruchi ho. (So he must have taste, taste to eat something.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Srila Prabhupada ekhon ektu angurer ros debo? Bedanar ros debo? Na? (Srila Prabhupāda, should I give you some grape juice now? Some pomegranate juice? No?)

'''Kaviraja:''' Subah se kya diya hai inko? (What have you given him since morning?)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Subah se to sirf horlicks diya tha.125. Magar ye hota hai ki 3-4 ghanta me ek dafa unhone peeta hai. (Since the morning we gave him only Horlicks. 125gms. But it so happens that he drinks once in every 3 to 4 hours.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Agar aap pehle deke subah ho jayegi na kum qunatity me denge to jaldi-jaldi lenge. (If you see, then in the morning the quantity is reduced, so he will have it more frequently.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Nahi dekhiye aisa hota hai ki char ghanta so gaye hain to beech me to nahi de sakta hoon to isiliye main sochta hoon ki jitna zyada de sakte hain. (No see it happens like this that he sleeps for four hours then I can't give in the middle of his sleep so that is why I think how much ever I can give.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Utna zyada hazm hone me dikkat hoga. (It will be difficult for him to digest that much.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Hazm hone me koi dikkat nahi hota hai unko. Hoi ki Srila Prabhupāda? Hozome hoi osubidha? . . . achha tahole olpo olpo korei debo. (There is no problem in his digestion. Is there Srila Prabhupāda? Do you feel problem to digesst? . . . okay will it be served in smaller quantities then?)

'''Kaviraja:''' Hmm. (Yes.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Sastri ji bolchilen je ponchas cc kore ekbare dite. Ta proti ghontai ghontai dite. (Sashtri Ji is saying to serve fifty cc in one go. And to serve it on hourly basis.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Hm oi bhalo hobe. (Yes that will be good.) Ye accha hai. Waise hazm ho jayega to inka ruchi aa jayega. (This is good. As such if digestion happens then automatically his taste will increase.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sastri Ji bangla jane nischoi? (I think Sastri Ji knows Bengali for sure?)

'''Kaviraja:''' Ha, Bangla jane. (Yes , I know Bengali.) (laughs)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Kolkatai thakten nischoi? (Did you stay in Calcutta?)

'''Kavirāja:''' Haan, hamare bengali bahut patients hain. Likhna nahi jante hain. Sun lete hain, samajh jata hain, bolna bhi kum hai. (Yes, I have lots of Bengali patients. I don't know how to write Bengali. I hear, I can understand and speak a little.)

'''Devotee:''' There is another ayurvedic physician . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . (indistinct Hindi)

'''Kaviraja:''' Nahi aaj doosra intezam kar liya wo. wo aaj . . . kar liye, kal nikal jayega wo. (No, today I made a different arrangement. That today . . . I did. Tomorrow he will leave.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Vaidyaraj ji wo bolta hai dawai do tha peyar ke liye aur dono do pudiya hai. Alag-alag. (Physician sir, he says that for the legs there were two medicines and both were in two packets. Separate packets.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Pehle wala saunt aur . . . ka choor tha, ek to chota aur ek bada. dono le aaiye hum batate hain. Ye aankh me jo sujan aata hai na ek acharya likhta hai.(verse) Ye jo ras pura nahi banta hai unke andar swelling hai. Aankh ka jo sujan hai . . . wo to chaubis ghanta mediicine hi nahi gaya. 3-4 roz medicine jayega sot kum hoga nischay. (The dry ginger which I gave earlier . . . was powdered. One small and the other one big. Bring both of them I will tell you. The swelling which is there in the eyes an acarya writes one verse (verse) the juice is not made, there is swelling. The swelling in the eye . . . he has not taken medicine for 24 hours. If he takes medicine for 3 to 4 days then the swelling will reduce.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Abhi thoda kum hua hai. (It has reduced a little bit now.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Wo baithne se ho jayega. Isko garam kar lena. baki jab khansi hai na, katori ko aage me rakhiye. Katori ko rakh karke, usme ras dal ke turant niche utar lijiye. Madhu dal diya hai kya? accha madhu dala hai tab to aise hi rehne dijiye . . . (indistinct) . . . unhone ek slok bola kabse ye kanth bhar jata hai wo kanthavarodh nahi hai. Wo jo kafh nikalta hai na thoda kanth me dikkat hota hai baki wo itna kaff nahi hai jisko, to unhone ek slok bola. Koi yaad aa gaya hoga swamiji ko. (It will happen if you sit for a long time. Heat it up a little. So when he has cough, keep the utensil in front. Keeping the utensil in front, pour the juice in it and remove it immediately from the flame. Did you add honey? Okay if you have added honey then let it be like that only . . . (indistinct) . . . he recited one sloka. since when the throat gets filled up then it does not become choke the throat. That mucus which comes out gives little bit of pain to the throat but the mucus is not so severe which needs . . . so he recited one sloka. He must have remembered one verse.)

'''Prabhupada:''' Sab mandir dekha? (Have you seen all the temples?)

'''Kaviraja:''' Hmm? (What?)

'''Indian man:''' Mandir dekha? (Seen the temples?)

'''Kaviraja:''' Keya dekha? (What have you seen?)

'''Indian man:''' Sab mandir? (All the temples.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Nahi sab mandir dekha nahi. Abhi dekha nahi. (No, I haven't seen all the temples. Till now I haven't seen.)

'''Prabhupada:''' Krishan-Balram mandir? (Kṛṣṇa Balarama mandir?)

'''Kaviraja:''' Krishan-Balram mandir? Ye to? Ha dekha hai. Kal do tin jaga darshan kiye. Bahut sundar mandir hai. jo aapke dwara ye hua hai wo ati-manav krit hua hai. manava nahi kar sakta hai ye nischit baat hai. (Kṛṣṇa-Balram mandir? This one? Yes I have seen. Yesterday I visited two or three places and talking darshan. This one is a very nice temple. What has been done by you, that is indeed a superhuman feat. This is for sure that a man can't do this.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hamara jo Calcutta me jo mandir hai . . . (The temple we have in Calcutta . . .)

'''Kaviraja:''' Haan maya mandir. (Yes the ''maya'' temple.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Nahi Calcutta me. (No, in Calcutta.)

'''Kavirāja:''' Nahi Calcutta me wo nahi darshan kiya. (No, have not taken darshan of that temple in Calcutta.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Albert road. (At Albert Road.)

'''Kavirāja:''' Dekha nahi. (Have not seen.)

'''Indian man:''' Yeh president hai, calcutta ka. (He is the president of Calcutta temple.)

'''Kavirāja:''' Achha. (Okay.)

President '''Devotee:''' Hindi high school er kache. (Near to Hindi high school.)

'''Kavirāja:''' Haan wahan to roj hi jaate hain. Humko maloom nahi tha. Ab hum jayega darshan karega. Mandir to bahut se hain apke. Bombay me bhi hai. (Yes I used to go there everyday. I was not aware of it. Next time when I go there I will visit. You have a lot of temples. You have a temple in Bombay also.)

'''Prabhupada:''' Hamare 108 mandir hain. (We have got 108 temples.)

'''Kaviraja:''' 108 Mani hote hain mala me to 108 mandir. are wo to badhega. 10 varsh baad wo to hazaron ki sankya me pahunch jayega. Sabse bada acharya ye hi. Jis uddeshya se apne aarambh kiya hai wo bahut zordar uddeshya aur vishwa kalyan ka sarvopari aushadi hai. (In the chanting rounds there are 108 beads and you have 108 temples. And this will increase. After 10 years it will reach 1000s in number. He is the greatest ''acarya''. The goal with which you started it carries your powerful intention, and for universal betterment this is the greatest medicine.)

'''Prabhupada:''' Bhavaushadi. (Panacea for material miseries.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Bhavaushadi. hum to 16-17 carorpati ke yahan jate hain kisi ke yahan shanti nahi dekhte hain. Sab ashant, sab jal rahe hain jaise aag me jal raha hai waise jal rahe hain. (Panacea for ''maya''. I visit about 16-17 millionaires but none of them are at peace. Everyone is disturbed. It seems everyone is burning in fire of discontentment.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka''.

'''Kaviraja:''' Bilkul theek kaha. Bade-bade jaise Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Ramanaujacharya, Shankaracharya, prachar ke liye inhone . . . isme koi sandeh nahi. Har ek manushya swamiji ye kaam nahi kar sakta hai. (You said it very aptly. All great personalities, ''acaryas'' like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Ramanujacarya, Shankaracarya, for preaching these people . . . there is no doubt in this. Not everyone can do this.)

'''Prabhupada:''' London me, New York me, San Fransisco, Los Angeles bade-bade mandir hain. (In London, In New York, San Fransico, Los Angeles in all the big temples.)

'''Kavirāja:''' Bahut hi . . . kaam. Subah ka humne drishya dekha na vastav me jo purani yaad kitabon ki, purano ki yaad aa jati hai ye vastav me gurukul hai. Aaj ka gurukul 20 varsh baad me aapka gurukul bahut zordar hoga. Ye jo aaj kal gurukul hai BA mane Ab, AB mane samajhte hain, ekdam isi tarah se ye apni shiksha, jo gurukul ki shiksha hai ye sarvottam shiksha hai. (break) Kal shaam ko wahan gaye the Pagalanand Thakur ke yahan. wo dekha hai. (Too much . . . work. We saw the scene in the morning, the actual remembrance of the old memories of the books, we recollected the ''puranas'', this in the real sense is the ''gurukula''. Today's ''gurukula'' after 20 years your ''gurukula'' will be very well established. The ''gurukula'' in the present day BA that is AB, do you know what is AB. Just like our education system, the education of ''gurukula'' is the highest education. (break) Yesterday we went in the evening to visit Pagalanand Thakur. Have you seen it.)

'''Prabhupada:''' Udhar kya hai? (What it is about?)

'''Kaviraja:''' Wo mandir bana rahe hain na bahur zordar. Aur ek aspatal banayega usme 11 crore rupaya lagega. (They are constructing a magnificent temple. And they will build one hospital which will cost 11 crores.)

'''Prabhupada:''' Abhi kya bana hai. (What is constructed till now.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Abhi to mandir ka wo marble lag raha hai. Humse jaan-chin hai. pehle unko pet me dard bahut zyada ho gaya tha. Calcutta rehte the na zyada Srinivas aur Jhunjunwala.To humne swamiji unka 10-15 roz ilaz kiya tha. Abhi bhi aaj bole hain unka sugar ka bimari hai, diabetes, madhumey. Humne kaha khana control karo to bole khana to nahi hoga. Chini khayega, chini khayega to lakuwa aayega ya heart aayega, do cheez aayega. (At present the marble is being laid. I know him personally. In the beginning he had severe stomach pain. Srinivasan and Jhunjhunwala were staying in Calcutta. So I treated him for 10 to 15 days Mahārāja. Today he also mentioned that he has developed sugar disease, diabetes. I told him to control his diet but he said that he could not do that. He consumes sugar and if he eats sugar then he will get stroke or he will have heart problem.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Thoda cigarette bahut pete hain. (He also smokes cigarettes a lot.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Kya baat karte hain. Main baitha raha to 10 cigarette pi gaye. Unka chati me cough, bronchitis. Humne kaha Mahārāja ki kahe aap sadhu hoke . . . laga rakha hai aapne. (What are you saying? While I was sitting with him he smoked 10 cigarettes. There is a cough in his chest, bronchitis. I told him that you being a saint . . . are like this.)

'''Prabhupada:''' Wo abaddha hai. (He is disobedient.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Chootega nahi. Indriyon ko bus me karna sadharan baat hai kya Mahārāja? Har ek aadmi kar sakta hai? (He will not be able to get rid of the habit. Is it very easy to control our senses Mahārāja? Can everyone do it?)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Sadhu ko to karna hi chahiye. (The saint should do it.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Wahan poocha prashn ki kaliyug ka kya swaroop hai. Shastro me kaliyug ka swaroop bola hai "pishach vadan krura . . . " Do indriyan jo hain na agar inko jo chod dega to wo paramatama hi ho sakta hai manushya. Aur wo jis shiti me hum to unko manege sansarik sadhu. Accha hai bhagvan ka kuch bana rahe hain yehi sabse badhiya hai. (When I was there I asked him what the identity of kaliyuga was. In the scriptures the form of kaliyuga is described as "''pishach vadan krura'' . . ." The person who can overcome two senses can be a godly person. And one who is in this situation where he is addicted to these senses he is a worldly saint. But it is good that they are constructing something for god.)

'''Prabhupada:''' ''Titiksava karunika suhrida sarva bhutanam ajata-satrava santa sadhva sadhu-bhusana'' ([[SB 3.25.21|SB 3.25.21]]).

'''Kavirāja:''' Yehi to lakshan hai. (verse) Vyakaran me bhi to yehi bolta hai. Cigarette ye to dhumrapan maha nishudh hai swasth ke liye. Unka to lungs chaupat hai Mahārāja. Unko bronchitis hai aur abhi kuch roz me dum ki bimari ho jayegi unko. Isiliye to hamare yahan nishidh kiya gaya hai ki tamal patra maha nishidh hai usko use mat karo. (This is the symptom. (verse) In the grammar also the same thing is said. Cigarette smoking is also harmful for the health. His lungs are in a very bad condition. He has bronchitis and in a few days he will develop breathlessness. That is why in our center we have banned tobacco, please do not use it.)

'''Prabhupada:''' Unka umar kya hoga? (What will be his tentative age?)

'''Kaviraja:''' Unka umar hoga 60. Apne dekha nahi kya kabhi? Aap ko to jante hain bahut acchi tarah se. Wo to shubh kamna karte the ki Mahārāja jaldi se theek ho, bahut badhiya sadhu hain. (He might be about 60. Have you never seen him? He knows you very well. He was praying that you are such a great saint, may you recover fast.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' (reading list) Aaur doosra kya saunt aur kya hai? (One is dry ginger and the other is what?)

'''Kavirāja:''' Narkachu. Wo 10.30 baje aayenge kya vaidya ji? unke yahan se ek chastanga auleya . . . inka cough ko bhi control karna hai, cough nahi badhne dena hai. manga lete hain phir inko denge 2-3 din. (Narkachu. Will the physician come at 10.30? I want chastanga auleya from his place . . . his cough also has to be controlled, cough must not increase. We will get it and give it to him for 2 to 3 days.)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda? Your Godbrothers Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī and Ānanda Prabhu, they are here. You want to see them? Also, someone told me that Bon Mahārāja has returned to Vṛndāvana. Is there any reason to call him here?

'''Prabhupāda:''' If he likes, he can come.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Okay. We don't have to invite him to come. He knows you're here. So he should come of his own accord if he wants. Okay.

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Ise powder jaisa lagana hai? Pani ke saath mila ke lagana hai? (You must apply it like powder? It has to be mixed with water and applied?)

'''Kaviraja:''' Pani se zyada gau mutra me zyada fayda hai. (More than water cow urine will be more beneficial.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Ye rehne me thoda dikkat hai na? (But it is little difficult for it to stay there.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Wo utar jayega, utar jane dijiye, ye . . . utar jayega. (If it flows let it, it will . . . go away.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Din me do-teen dafa dena hai? (Have to give it 2 to 3 times a day?)

'''Kaviraja:''' Do-teen dafa sirf powder hi dijiye phir badhiya hai. Dk dapha lep. (2 to 3 times give only powder, it will be good. and once application.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Ek dapha lep aur raat ko tel lagana hai. (The gel has to be applied once and at the oil in the night.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Ye to kum hoga sot . . . aap dekhte hain, kitna . . . hone laga hai. Jaise-jaise sot kum hoga skin ke andar salawat aa jayegi. (This dry ginger is not enough . . . you see how much . . . it is becoming. As the dry ginger will get reduced the skin will develop wrinkles.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Kabhi-kabhi aisa ho jata hai ki bilkul kum ho jata hai. Ye prasab ki sawal hai. Prasab abhi thik hoga? (Sometimes it so happens that it gets reduced. This is a question of how much urine is passed. Will the urine problem be okay now?)

'''Kaviraja:''' Pisab jada hote hai to kum ho jayega. Kuch swamiji bhi liya karte hain. kabhi kum kar lete hain kabhi zyada kar lete hain. (If urine quantity is good then it will reduce. And Swamiji also does his lila sometimes. At times he passes more urine and other times not so much.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Ye agar khatam ho gaya, narakachur aur saunth to adha-adha. Saunth aur adrak me phark kya hai? (if this gets over, then half of both narkachur and dry ginger? What is the difference between normal ginger and this ginger?)

'''Kaviraja:''' Adrak to gila hota hai aur jab sookha hota hai to saunth. (Ginger is having water content.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Oh achha. Jab sukha hai to saunth. (Oh got it. When it dries up then it becomes dry ginger.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Iska jo quality hota hai, mumbai ka jo adrak hai wo hai ek number ka aur bengal ka do number. (The quality of this, the ginger of Mumbai is the best and ginger of Bengal is the second best.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Where is Bābājī Mahārāja?

'''Upendra:''' Bhavānanda?

'''Bhakti-caru:''' No, Bābājī.

'''Upendra:''' Just coming.

'''Kavirāja:''' Narkachura. Narkachur hi bolte hain. Ek to kachur hota hai ur ek narakachur. Kachur se karpur ka . . . aur narakachur jo hota hai wo saunth ko . . . ye badi quantity me hota hai kapur choti quanitity me hota hai. (It is called narkachur. One is called kachur and the other is narkachur. From kachur . . . and the narkachur destroys . . . this comes in large quantity and kapur comes in small quantity.)

'''Prabhupada:''' To ye sab pehchan nahi hoga ki kya-kya de rahe hain. (So we will have to make a note of what is being given.)

'''Kavirāja:''' Han yehi baat hai yahan. Apne bengal me bahut badhiya medicine milti hai. Bengal ke jo . . . hain wo sab jante hain aur . . . bhi sab jante hain. Yahan ka to humne dekha sab chaupat dhanda hai. (Yes this is the fact here. We get good medicine in Bengal. Those in Bengal . . . they know everything . . . I have seen here it is totally a flop business here.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Wo jo kaviraj aane wale the mandir se wo aaye hain. (The physician who was supposed to come from the temple, he has come.)

'''Kavirāja:''' Aaye hain? Accha. (He has come? Okay.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Aar Babaji kothai? (And where is Babaji?)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Babaji asche, oh mondire gachen. (Babaji will be coming soon, he has gone to see the temple.)

'''Prabhupāda:'''Oh.

'''Kavirāja:''' Aaiye, aaiye idhar aaiye. Accha apke yahan . . . baithiye. (Please come, come here. Okay in your place . . . please sit.) (both Kavirajas converse about medicine)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda? I just now can't find Kṛṣṇa dāsa. I'll continue to look. I just saw him about ten minutes ago, told him one minute. When I came back . . . maybe he's walking around. If I find him then I'll send him. I'll continue to look for him.

'''Kavirāja:''' (indistinct Hindi) . . . blood dekh rahe hain aapme. Anemia. Wo to dheere-dheere sharir par inka control hai isliye chal raha hai. Hemoglobin hum samajhta hai 45 se zyada nahi hai. Jeebh saaf hai aaj kal se. (We are checking the blood levels. Anemia. Actually gradually he is having control over his body that is why it is going on. The hemoglobin is not more than 45 I understand. His tongue is clear compared to yesterday.) . . . (indistinct conversation)

'''Kaviraja:''' (verse) Ye jaise hi bukhar chadha to doodh de dijiye aur jirna jo purana bukhar ho jaye ya kaff kshin ho jaye us halat me doodh bahut badhiya, amrt hai. (As soon as he develops fever give him milk and the old fever what he has or the cough reduces then in that case milk is very beneficial, it is nectar.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' To ye powder jo ye aap diye hain wo cough ki dawai hai? To wo doodh ke saath hi dena chahiye. (The powder which you have given is for cough? So should it be given with the milk.)

(Prabhupada's God-brotheres arrive)

Dandavat pranam . . . dandavat.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Aar sob khobor ki? Babaji Mahārāja? (What is the overall news? Babaji Mahārāja?)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Agge? (Yes?)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Jiggesh korchen sob khobor ki? (He is asking what is the overall news here?)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Khobor? Khobor bolte ki, nutan khobor kichu nei. (News? What to speak of news, there is no such new development here.) (laughter)

'''Kaviraja:''' Saman tayyar kara rahe hain? Ark ka tayyari kara rahe hain na? Wo babhuka mil jayega nahi to sukh sanchar se mangava lenge. Abhi bhabuka tayyar kara karke ark ka . . . isko bheego dijiye aap 16 ser pani me aur nahi to 8 ser pani me bheego ke raat ko rakh dijiye aur kal subahkki kheech lijiye. Aur astanavali abi turant 1-1/2 ghante me de dijiye. Chahiye to gadi bhej dijiye. Wo to nija me kar rakha hai wo to bimari thode hi hai jo apni lila karte hain . . . (Are you preparing the things? Are you preparing the ark? if we get the babhuka then good or else we will get it from the sukh sanchar. Now prepare the babhuka and ark . . . soak it in 16 litre of water or 8 litres of water and keep it overnight and next morning extract the liquid. And give ashtavali in about 1 1/2 hours. If required then send the vehicle. That actually he has made it in reality but he is in good health, he is performing his pastimes.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Hare Kṛṣṇa! (laughter)

'''Prabhupada:''' Aap log sab lila khatam kar diye. (You all have finished my pastime.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' (laughter)

'''Kaviraja:''' Hamare bacche jo hamare stri jo jate hain wo Vṛndāvana aaye the teen mahine pehle aur abhi ek maas pehle Māyāpur gaye the. Wahan ka shobha varnan kiye vaastav me wahan bahut sundar hai. wo ek ratri tehre the wahan. (My children and my wife who usually goes, they had come to Vṛndāvana three months ago and a month ago they had gone to Māyāpur. They described the beauty of that place and it is very nice. They stayed for one night there.)

'''Prabhupada:''' Māyāpur me kahan tehre the? (Where did you stay in Māyāpur?)

'''Kaviraja:''' Wo pata nahi humko kahan tehre the. Apna car se gaye the aur raat ko rahe aur sakal me. Rehne la intazam badhiya hai. Yahan bhi koi aaye to kitna badhiya intezaam hai. Aadmi aaye to uske liye bhi waise hi aaram hai aur sant aadmi ko darkar hi nahi hai thoda sa jagah mil jaye bus aur kya. (I do not know where they were staying. They went by their car and stayed and in the morning. The arrangement for stay was very nice. If someone comes here also there is a good arrangement for staying. If someone comes also there is the same arrangement and a saint does not require any comfort. If he gets a small place that is enough.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Māyāpure amio khub jetam age. Koto lok thakte pare Babaji Mahārāja? (Earlier I used to go to Māyāpur frequently. How many people can be accommodated now Babaji Mahārāja?)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Uh! (chuckles)

'''Ānanda Prabhu:''' Prabhu joggesh korchen koto lok thakte paren? (Prabhu is asking how many people can be accommodated there?)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Koto lok thakte paren? Ekhon hoito hazar er kache thakte pare. (How many people can be accommodated? Now it may accommodate about a thousand people.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hazar er kache. (About a thousand people.) (laughs)

'''Kaviraja:''' Kaha Māyāpur me? (Where in Māyāpur?)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Ha. (Yes.) (laughs)

'''Kaviraja:''' To Mahārāja aap to samajhte hain " Sri vaisnava nam goshti sunityas nityas tu mangalam". Viashnavo ke yahan laksmi jo hai wo to turant hi kyunki laksmi ke pati ko aapne pakad rakha hai." Nityashree nitya managalam". Wahan se dekha jaye to vaikunth hi hai Vṛndāvana. Mandir bangadiye ne bhi accha banaya hai wahan Calcutta mein. Wo doosra type hai. Marble usme 26 lakh rupaye lage the 17-18 varsh ho gaya. Accha vaisnava sampradaya ka ek mandir to hua. Sabse bada apna sampradaya ka ek mandir to hua jaise vaishnav badhe aur duniya pavitra ho. Aajkal aap samajhte hain Mahārāja kitna kalyug vyapt hua hai in 20 varsh me. 2000 ke pehle itna nahi tha. Abhi to ek aadmi mayavi, abhi paap naam ka koi cheez hi nahi samajhta, paap kya cheez hai, kuch nahi. kalyug ka flow. Bhagvat me likh diya hai. (So Mahārāja you understand "''Sri vaisnav nam goshti sunityas nityas tu mangalam''" The goddess Laksmi is the house of a vaisnava immediately because you have under your control the husband of Laksmi. "''Nityasree nitya mangalam''". If you see from that point of view then it is Vṛndāvana only. The temple made by Bangadiya is also very magnificent in Calcutta. It is different type. The cost of the marble laid in the temple is 26 ''lakhs'' and it took 17 to 18 years. Good that there is at least one temple of vaisnava tradition. In our great vaisnava tradition at least there is one big temple. So that the number of vaisnavas will increase and the world becomes purified. Nowadays you understand Mahārāja how much the dark age has progressed in the last 20 years. Before 2000 years it was not so bad. Now one person is having magical powers, no one understands the meaning of sin, what is sin, nothing. The flow of the dark age. It is mentioned in the Bhagavat.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Ami panda oder. (I am the leader of them.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Notun bari dekhechen? (Have you seen the new building?)

'''Kaviraja:''' Ha? (What?)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Ha? (What?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Aamder notun bari je . . . (The new building that we . . .)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Ha. (Yes.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Korechi. (Have made.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Dekhe aslam ekhon. (Yes seen it just now.)

'''Ānanda Prabhu:''' Gurukul.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Are na na, Māyāpure. (Oh no no, it's in Māyāpur.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Māyāpure? Geachilam. Eibar amra geachilam parikramai. Ami aar . . . dekhlam. Uttor dike. (Oh in Māyāpur? Yes, I went there during ''parikrama''. Myself and . . . have seen it myself. In the northern side.)

'''Ānanda Prabhu:''' Ha prokando. (Yes it's huge.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Dekhe elam . . . ota boro bari hoyechhe. (Have seen it . . . a very big building has came up.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Ota Bangla desher sob chaite boro bari. (It is the largest building in Bengal.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Ha, sob chaite boro bari . . . (indistinct) . . . (Yes, the largest building . . . (indistinct) . . .)

'''Kaviraja:''' Māyāpur to Sri Caitanya Mahāprabhu ka sthan hai. Bahut hi jordar sthan hai. (Māyāpur is the place of Sri Caitanya Mahāprabhu. It's a very potent place.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Apnar pochondo hoi? (Did you like it.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Khub pochondo moharaj. Pochondo . . . jogote pochondo korche aar ami ki? Jogote . . . (indistinct) . . . ei Vrindaban, Nabadwip darshan kore. Aar sone, photo te dekhe. Deshe deshe . . . (indistinct) . . . Hare Krsna, Vedanta swami. (Yes Mahārāja, very much. Regarding liking . . . the whole world is liking it, who am I? The whole world . . . (indistinct) . . . this Vrindaban, Nabadwip, they take darshan. They hear and they see it in photos. In many countries . . . (indistinct) . . . Hare Krsna, Vedanta Swami.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Wo to amar hai. Ye sab cheeze amar hain Mahārāja. Aaj jitna dharm ka prachar hai 10 varsh me aur zyada hoga. (That is eternal. All these things are eternal. Today the amount of preaching which is going on, this will increase manifold in the coming 10 years.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm? (What?)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Patrika te utheche. Sob school, chatro chatri. Meyechele porjonto kotha bole. Hare Kṛṣṇa nam prochar. Sob moharaj . . . (indistinct) . . . (It was reported in the newspaper. The school, students, male female students. Even the ladies are preaching. The preaching of Hare Kṛṣṇa name. All Mahārāja . . . (indistinct) . . .)

'''Kaviraja:''' Harir harati papani . . . (Hari takes away all the sins . . .) (sloka)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Statesman er publication dekhechen? (Have you seen the Statesman publication?)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Ki bolchen? (What he is saying?)

'''Ānanda Prabhu:''' Prabhu jiggesh korchen. (Prabhuji is asking.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Babaji Mahārāja? (Babaji Mahārāja?)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Ha? (Yes?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Statesman? Amader ei scientific conference hoyechhilo? (Statesman? The scientific conference that we had organized.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Ota uthece? (They have published report on that?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ha. Ektu sonao. (Yes. Please let us hear that.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Apnader ke deachhe . . . (indistinct) . . . (Did they give you . . . (indistinct) . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ami boktrita deachilam. (I gave lecture there.)

Svarūpa Dāmodara enters

'''Kaviraja:''' Ye hi param bhagyshali hain. Aadhunik vidya ke prakar hote hue bhi asatya cheez ko chod kar ke satya me aa gaye. Chakachaund itna jaldi ja nahi sakta hai. purva janm ke jo karm acche hote hain na to manushya acche raste par. wahan poocha ki Hanuman ji lakadi leke raksha karte hain kya (verse). To bus devta kaise raksha karta hai kya (verse) usko buddhi de denge aur jiska vinash karna chahenge usko kubuddhi de denge. Kalyug me devta saamne nahi aate hain. (He is the most fortunate person. Even though he belongs to the modern education system he has given up falsity and come toward truth. The glamor will not reduce so soon. If the good actions of the previous life are there then a person will tread on the path of righteousness. It was asked there that Hanuman take a stick and give protection (verse). So how do the demi-gods give protection (verse). He will give them intelligence and those whom He wants to annihilate He gives malevolence. In this dark age of nescience the demi-gods do not appear before us.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' (chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Era bolche je, amader Kapoor ji o bolen je molecule theke life hoi. (They are proposing that, even our Mr. Kapoor also tells that life comes from molecule.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Hmm. (Just see.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Amra bolchi na. Eita conference e . . . (indistinct) . . . (We are telling no, this is not the case. The conference was on this . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Svarupa Damodar: (whispering) I've got two newspapers.

'''Upendra:''' This is the article.

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' Can you read it?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ha? Pore sonao na. (Yes? Please read it out for us to hear.)

'''Upendra:''' (reading) This is from The Statesman, 24th October, 197 . . . no?

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' Twenty-second.

'''Upendra:''' Twenty-second. "The Non-Physical View on the . . ." Here.

'''Bhakti-caru:''' (reads Statesman article) "The Non-Physical View on the Origin of Species. Materialists and men of faith continue to disagree over the origins of life. According to the first group, life is derived from atoms and molecules. The Russian scientist Dr. A. I. Oparin has been propagating this view since 1957, but his challengers demand 'really solid examples of life arising from matter.' " (break)

'''Kaviraja:''' Ha bahut kam ate hai . . . (indistinct) . . . (Yes it is very useful . . . (indistinct) . . .)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' (Chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . (indistinct) ''tad uttamaśloka guṇopalambhakam'' ([[SB 6.2.11|SB 6.2.11]])

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' ''Tad uttamaśloka guṇanu'' . . .

'''Kaviraja:''' (verses recited by Kaviraj)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ha. Aur, er sathe kothai gechle? . . . (indistinct) . . . (Yes. And where did you go with him? . . . (indistinct) . . .)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Ha Srila Prabhupāda? (Yes Srila Prabhupāda?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Kothai? Kothai Svarūpa Dāmodara kothai? (Where is he? where is Svarūpa Dāmodara.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' O eikhane. Svarūpa Dāmodara. (He is here. Hey Svarūpa Dāmodara.)

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' Srila . . pach minite . . . (Srila . . . five minutes . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ha? (What?)

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' Ami achi . . . (I am here only . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Achha tumi ekhane kothai gechile . . . (indistinct) . . . (Well where did you go to . . . (indistinct) . . .)

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' Oh, I also gave a lecture on the life and its origin. Oi Mathura te. (In Mathurā.) There is one veterinary college, the biggest in Asia, about two hundred scholars. We also showed "Hare Kṛṣṇa Frontier," "Spiritual Frontier" movies. They liked very much. And we're having another lecture on Thursday. It will be given by Thompson in All-India Institute of Medical Sciences. There will be about some two hundred, three hundred scholars from around Delhi. We'll be discussing about life in its origin. And also we are planning to give several lecture in Delhi University, in the mathematics, biology and physics departments.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Amra oi Gītār kothata prove korte chai . . . (We just want to prove the words of the ''Gītā''), ''apareyam itas tu viddhi me param'' ([[BG 7.5 (1972)|BG 7.5]]).

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' ''Itas tu viddhi me'' . . .

'''Kaviraja:''' Dekhiye inka mann kahan hai. inka mann bus hamesha usi ke chintan me laga rehta hai. (See where his mind is. His mind is always absorbed in the thoughts of the Supreme Lord.)

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' We have also written books like this. Maybe I can show you. This is a . . .

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Enar naam ti khub bhalo deachen. Er naam ti deachen Svarūpa Dāmodara. (You have given him a very good name. You have given his name Svarūpa Dāmodara.) (laughs)

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' This is our worldwide preaching program. This is Prabhupāda . . .

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' (laughter) . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Uchhokotir bidya. Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara. (He is highly educated. Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Svarūpa Dāmodara thik Mohaprabhur kotha rakhbe. Mohaprabhu . . . (Svarūpa Dāmodara will uphold the words of Mahāprabhu. Mahāprabhu . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Khub bhalo maine peto. Sob chere deachhe. (He used to draw a very good salary. He has left that all.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Mahāprabhur time Svarūpa Dāmodara . . . (indistinct) . . . (During Mahāprabhu's time Svarūpa Dāmodara . . . (indistinct) . . .)

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' Prabhupada's mercy.

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' (laughter)

'''Prabhupāda:''' O je thesis likheche doctorate pabar jonne, seta amake dedicate koreche. (The thesis he has written for his doctorate, he has dedicated that to me.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' (laughter) (chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa)

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' Offices in Boston, Vṛndāvana, Bombay . . . (indistinct conversation)

'''Kaviraja:''' Ek to pujari yahan rehte the maloom hai. (Do you know one Pujari who used to stay here?)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Kaun? (Who?)

'''Kaviraja:''' Wo Ram Narayan Ojha. (His name was Ram Narayan Ojha.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Ram Narayan Ojha? (Ram Narayan Ojha?)

'''Kaviraja:''' Wo 12 varsh yahan Vṛndāvana rehke phir vapas business karne chale gaye. maine kaha manda bhagya. (After staying in Vṛndāvana for 12 years he again returned to do some business. I said, bad fortune.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Hare Kṛṣṇa! (laughter)

'''Kaviraja:''' Vṛndāvana me jo 12 13 varsh reh karke phir business karne chala jata hai to wo to param mand bhagya hai. (Who after staying in Vṛndāvana for 12 to 13 years and then again goes back to do business, he is the most unfortunate person indeed.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Hare Kṛṣṇa! (laughter)

'''Kaviraja:''' Age hai uski 75. To kaliyug nahi hai Mahārāja batiye. (He is 75 years old. If this is not kaliyuga then what else is. Mahārāja please tell me.) (verse)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' (chants Hare Kṛṣṇa) . . . (indistinct)

'''Kaviraja:''' (verse)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Amader Kapoor ji suddhhu biswas kore je life molecule theke ase. (Our Mr. Kapoor also believes that life comes from molecules.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Tai naki? (laughs) To Kapoor Ji ke to bolte dei ni. Se boleni? (Oh really? (laughs) So Mr. Kapoor was not allowed to talk there? Didn't he speak?)

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' Oi pach minute, pach minute bolechhe. (For five minutes only, he spoke for five minutes.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' O dekheche sobar moddhhe . . . (indistinct) . . . (He understood that amongst all . . . (indistinct) . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Okhane to . . . (indistinct) . . . (There it was . . . (indistinct) . . .)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' (indistinct) . . . (laughter)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' O bujhte pereche obostha ki. (He realized what is the situation there.) (chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa)

'''Prabhupāda:''' No sentiment—"Come on," scientific challenge.

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' (laughter) (Chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ami challenge korte chai. Kotha kou . . . (indistinct) . . . no theory. Kapoor Ji or boi e te ek jaigai likheche. Oi je RamKṛṣṇa boleche na je . . . ki. (I want to challenge them. You speak and we . . . (indistinct) . . . no theory. Mr. Kapoor has written in one place in his book, that . . . what was it?)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ha. Sei theory. (Yes. That theory.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' (laughter)

'''Prabhupāda:''' RamKṛṣṇa to authority! (Ramakrishna is the authority!)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Hmm. Hare Kṛṣṇa . . . (laughter)

'''Kaviraja:''' Asambhab. (Impossible.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ei sob dekhe amar bhari dukhho lage. Sat kando Ramayon pore, Sita kar baba? (After seeing all these I feel very sad. After reading the whole Ramayana, you are asking Sita is the father of whom?)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Hmm. (laughter). Hare Kṛṣṇa . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Attodin vaishnab . . . (indistinct) . . . Ramakrishna! Apni ki bolen? (After vaisnava for so many days . . . (indistinct) . . . Ramakrishna! What do you say about this?)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa . . . Pandit! (Hare Kṛṣṇa . . . very learned!)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ami koyek din age ekta . . . (Just a few days ago I . . . )

'''Kaviraja:''' To abhi to ye hi hain na ki apko medicine sham ko milega. Unko cough ho gaya hai. 4-5 roz me mit jayega. Thoda sa yahan inko jitna khush rakenge utna jaldi theek ho jayenge. Bolna -hasna ye swasth ke liye sabse bada accha lakshan hai. (So it is that you will get the medicine by evening. He has developed a cough. It will go away in 4 to 5 days. The more you keep him happy here the sooner he will recover. Talking and laughing, these are the symptoms of good health.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Apni Caitanya Charitamrita sunle aschorjo hoye jaben. Ek seter dam hochhe 800 taka. Amra ponchas hazar bechechi. Na? (If you hear about Caitanya-caritāmṛta you will become astonished. The value of one set is 800 rupees. We have sold fifty thousand. Is it not?)

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' Char hazar. (Four thousand.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Char hazar. (Four thousand.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Char hazar. (Four thousand.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Set.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ha, char hazar set. (Yes, four thousand set.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Char hazar set. Odbhut byapar. (Four thousand set. It's amazing.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Russian country te. (In Russian countries.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Russian?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. (Yes.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Char hazar Russia me. (Four thousand copy in Russia.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hindi boi khub bikri hochhe. (Hindi books are selling very well.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Hmm. Oi choto Gītā to khub bikri. Choto Gītā sokoler hate dekha jai. Je jai , ekta kore . . . (indistinct) . . . (Hmm. That small ''Gītā'' is selling extremely well. The small ''Gītā'' you can see in everyone's hand. Whoever goes there, takes one . . . (indistinct) . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Aar Bhagavad Darshan koi? Ha? (And where is ''Bhagavad Darsana''? Where?)

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' Bhagavad Darshan? (''Bhagavad Darsan''?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Amake kal dekhale je Bhagavad Darshan. (''Bhagavad Darshan'' that you had shown me yesterday.) (indistinct comments)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Bangla, Bangla. Bish hazar chepechilo. (Bengali. Bengali. Twenty thousand copies were printed.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Ha? (Really?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sob bikri hoye gachhe. (All sold out.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' ''Haribol!'' Hare Kṛṣṇa . . .

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' Very nice. ''Bhagavad Darshan''?

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Oh Hare Kṛṣṇa! Sob . . . (indistinct) . . . kripa. (Oh Hare Kṛṣṇa! All . . . (indistinct) . . . His mercy.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Boi chaplei bikri hoye jai. Hindi boi sob hot cakes. Hindi boi dekhiecho? Dekhao . . . (indistinct) . . . Nouko kore sob jachhe. (As soon as we print books, they gets sold out. Hindi books are like hot cakes. Have you shown him Hindi books? . . . show him . . . (indistinct) . . . these are being sent by boat.)

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' Hindi me Sri Upadeshamrita. (See ''Nectar of Instruction'' in Hindi.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Ye aise hi mahapuruashon se desh pavitra hai. nahi to "ang-bhnag kalinge . . ." Pandav gaye the na jate hi vapas aa gaye. aise sant-maharishi yahan hote hain na isliye ye pavitra hai. (Because of such saintly persons the country is pure. Otherwise "''ang-bhang kalinge'' . . ." the pandavas had gone but immediately returned. such saintly persons are here that is why it is so pure.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ''. ([[SB10. 84.13|SB 10.84.13]])

'''Kaviraja:''' Thik baat hai. Nischai baat hai. (Very correct. Certainly this is true.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' ''Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ''. ([[SB 10.84.13|SB 10.84.13]])

'''Kaviraja:''' Ye hindi me bahut accha likha hai. (In Hindi also they have written very well.)

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' ''Bhagavat Sandesh''. ''Srimad Bhagavatam''.

'''Devotee:''' Yeh volume two. Aap ka volume one hai. (This is volume two. You are having volume one.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Ye garbhasaya ka varnan hai. isi me jeev jo iswar chintan karta hai aur bahar nikalte hi maya me . . . (There is description of the womb. In this the living entity who meditates on the supreme lord and as soon as he comes out he comes into illusion . . .)

'''Prabhupada:''' Gītā hai kya? (''Gītā'' is there?) . . . (indistinct conversation)

'''Prabhupada:''' Fiji island theke, bish hazar copy order deachhe. (From Fiji island they have given an order for twenty thousand copies.)

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' ''Gītā'', how much the order?

'''Śatadhanya:''' Ten thousand.

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' Ten thousand ''Bhagavad-gītā'', Hindi.

'''Prabhupada:''' Na bish hazar. (No it's twenty thousand.)

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' Bish hazar, Oh. (Oh, it's twenty thousand.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Bish hazar. (Twenty thousand.) (chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa)

'''Prabhupada:''' Fiji te amader mondir ache janen? Kṛṣṇa Kaliya mondir. (Do you know that in Fiji we have a temple? Kṛṣṇa Kaliya temple.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Ha. (Oh very good.)

'''Prabhupada:''' Khoob bada mandir. Vaidya ji hamara Fiji island me bahut bhari mandir banaya hai. (It's a very big temple. Hey Kaviraj do you know that in Fiji island we have made a very big temple.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Achha Fiji island me? (Oh, at Fiji island?)

'''Prabhupada:''' Ha. Kṛṣṇa-kaliya mandir. (Yes. It's named as Kṛṣṇa-kaliya temple.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Wahan indian bhi bahut rehta hai Fiji island me. Ek doctor hai hamara dost uska bhi wahan . . . hai. Fiji island bahut accha hai. (In Fiji island there are lot of indians staying there. I have a friend, a doctor who has . . . there.)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Here is Kṛṣṇa-kāliya, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah.

Guests: Hare Kṛṣṇa!

'''Kaviraja:''' Ha, Kaliya daman ka. Itne kala thodi hi the Krsna? Ha? Shyam rang jisko bolte hai. (Oh yes, Kaliya ''daman'' scene. But was Kṛṣṇa so deep black? Was He? What we call little blackish type color.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' (laughter) Shyam. Shyam barna. (Blackish. Blackish color.)

'''Prabhupada:''' Mondirer chobi achhe? . . . (indistinct) . . . (Do you have the picture of the temple? . . . (indistinct) . . .)

'''Kaviraja:''' Is sansar me amar yehi ek cheez hai.duniya wale janenge-padhenge. (In this world this is the only thing that is eternal. The people of this world will know it and read it.) (verse)

'''Prabhupada:''' What is that?

'''Śatadhanya:''' Well, we're just . . . this is the ''Bhāgavata-darśana'' in Bengali. They've seen it, right?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eita ekta sontusti. Prabhupāda bolechen - Amar ichha chilo kichu boi. To jai hok. Prithibite sob bhasai berieche. Boi khub chalu. (This is a matter of satisfaction. Prabhupāda (Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur) said: "My wish was to publish books." So whatever it is. Books have been published in almost all languages of the world. Books are selling well.) . . . (indistinct conversation)

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' Fiji special. Special master of the Movement, from the Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement in Lautoka. Ekhane pictures ache. (Picture is given here.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Mauritius Island a. (In Mauritius Island.)

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' Mauritius.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Fiji. Hawaii e te achhe. (Fiji. In Hawaii we have.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Yeh Kaliya. (This is Kaliya.)

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' Kṛṣṇa-kāliya temple at Lautoka. The devotees.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Okhane ekta probad achhe. Je, sekhane je saap achhe. Kaliya ke je bhagiechile. Se oikhane. (There is a proverb here. That, the snake was there. The Kaliya was thrown out. He was thrown out there.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Hmm. Achha! (Hmm. Okay.)

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' The temple is there.

'''Upendra:''' There's the dome.

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' It says: "How the Hare Kṛṣṇa came to Fiji." It's written.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Tarpore South Africa te. Ha? (Then in South Africa. What?)

'''Upendra:''' South Africa newspaper. Articles.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sekhane Indian der hate kore. (They hate the Indians there.)

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' Ei mondirer pechone. Bhakti Siddhanta . . .? (This is the backside of the temple. Bhaktisiddhanta . . .?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Just turn me this side.

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' Prabhupāda wants to turn this side.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Apni bosun na. (To Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī - You please be seated.)

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' Apni bosun. (Please sit.) . . . (indistinct comments)

'''Upendra:''' Here. South African article.

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' In the South African paper. Hare Kṛṣṇa festivities, South Africa.

'''Prabhupāda:''' South Africa. Indian ko wahan hate karte hain. (South Africa. They hate Indians there.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Achha. Ha! (Is it. Okay.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Gandhi Ji was staying there. For twenty years.

Swarup Damodar: Ei je festival amader. Ei je Janamashtami festival. (See this is our festival. This is Janmastami festival.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Janmastami?

Swarup Damodar: This is Govardhan? . . . Gopastami?

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Hmm. (Yes.)

'''Kaviraja:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupada:''' Aur aur language me sab Bhagvat, Gītā chapa hai. (On many other languages all these ''Bhagavat'', ''Gītā'' has been printed.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Haan, chinese me bhi likha hai. China to ekdam nastik hai. Ye Prabhu ka aadesh tha apko. (Yes, have seen in the Chinese language also. China is totally atheist. Actually this was the Lord's order to you.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Haa. (Yes.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Suruwad ho gaya. ab prachar hoga 10-20-50 varsh me jaake . . . (It has started now. From here the preaching will spread in 10, 20 to 50 years it will . . .)

'''Prabhupada:''' Chala gaya to kya hoga. ye sab cheez . . . hai. Ye sharir me kya hai, mitti hi to hai. (If I depart then what will happen . . . all this. What is so special about this body, it's nothing but dust only.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Ye baat hai. (This is real words.)

'''Prabhupada:''' Agar tik jaye to tik jaye, nahi to fir . . . (If this movement stays then it will stay, else what . . .) (chuckles)

'''Kaviraja:''' Tikega. Aur kuch karya ho sake. (It will stay. More things are to be done.)

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' Every town and village. Duniya me. (Every town and village. All over the world.)

'''Prabhupada:''' Mantrer sadhan kimba sarir patan . . . Caitanya Mahāprabhu ki vani. (Either live for the ideals or give up the body . . . the prophecy of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Hmm. (Yes.)

'''Prabhupada:''' "''pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma''" (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126) chesta kiya, kuch safal hua. pahucha hai, sab jagah me. Aab len den ka sawaI aa gaya. (tried, there was some success. It has reached all the places. Now the business settlement time has come.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:'''(laughter) . . . (indistinct) . . . gea Hare Kṛṣṇa korben. (. . . (indistinct) . . . after reaching there you will chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Thik baat. That's true.) . . . (indistinct conversation)

'''Prabhupada:''' Mondirer chobi dekhlen? (Have you seen the picture of the temple?)

'''Kaviraja:''' Hmm. (Yes.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Hmm. (Yes.)

'''Prabhupada:''' Fiji.

'''Kaviraja:''' Ha. Bahut sundar chabi. (Yes. Very nice picture.)

'''Prabhupada:''' Ami Fiji gechi du tin bar. (I visited Fiji for two or three times.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Achha. (Well.)

'''Prabhupada:''' Sab foundation strong. hum de aya tha, mandir ka. (Foundation is strong. I arranged it, of the temple.)

'''Prabhupada:''' Dekhlen gurukul? (So you have seen ''gurukul''?)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Ha. Haribol! Eta kobe udbhodon kora hobe? Ha dekhe elam. (Yes. ''Haribol!'' When will it be opened? Yes seen it.)

'''Prabhupada:''' Kirom hoyechhe? (How was it?)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Hare Kṛṣṇa . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupada:''' Eibar chele nea asun. Sekhan sob. (Now bring the students. Teach them.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa!

'''Prabhupada:''' Aar kichu parbo na. Thakbar khabar sob . . . (I will not be able to do much. Only accommodation and food will be . . .)

'''Ānanda Prabhu:''' Amar to kichu bhasa nai. Mane oi engraji a b c d jani na na. (I don't know any language. Means this english language, I don't even know A B C D . . .)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa!

'''Ānanda Prabhu:''' Tarpore ami mishte pari o na . . . (indistinct) . . . Eijonne ami . . . (indistinct) . . . (Moreover I can't socialize also . . . (indistinct) . . . for that reason I . . . (indistinct) . . .)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa!

'''Ānanda Prabhu:''' Mohan bidwan pandityo jara achhe, bujhechen, sob korche. Sob rokhha korche. Amar . . . (All the great learned scholars who are there, you know, they are doing everything. They are protecting everything. I am . . .)

'''Kaviraja:''' . . . (indistinct) . . . to biswa bhasa. (. . . (indistinct) . . . is universal language.)

'''Ānanda Prabhu:''' Ha biswa bhasa. Eijonne ami thakte parbo na. Ami osustho hoye gechi, boste prosader . . . (indistinct) . . . Osohai eirokom obostha. Eikhan theke Hare Kṛṣṇa bole . . . (indistinct) . . . (Yes universal language. That's why I won't be able to stay. I have become sick, sitting and taking ''prasada'' . . . (indistinct) . . . almost helpless situation. So just by staying here and chanting hare Kṛṣṇa . . . (indistinct) . . .)

'''Kaviraja:''' Hmm. Thik baat hai. (Hmm. This is true.)

'''Ānanda Prabhu:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Na ora to sob kirtan korche. (No they all are doing ''kirtana''.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' (indistinct) . . . ''kīrtanīya sadā hariḥ''. (laughter)

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Kīrtanīya sadā hariḥ'' ([[CC Adi 17.31|CC Adi 17.31]]).

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' ''Sadā hariḥ''. (laughter)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . (indistinct) . . . tabe Svarūpa Dāmodara okhane ekta round table conference. Kothai? (. . . (indistinct) . . . but Svarūpa Dāmodara did a round table conference there. Where was the venue?)

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' Oi Delhi te. (It was in Delhi.) Indian National Science Academy.

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Hmm. Boro boro university te boktrita dile . . . (indistinct) . . . (Hmm. By giving lecture in big big universities it will be . . . (indistinct) . . .) (laughter)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Statesman je bar koreche . . . (The report that Statesman published . . .)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Ha, khub ber koreche . . . (Yes, they have published it well . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Seta khub . . . (indistinct) . . . (That was very . . . (indistinct) . . .)

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' . . . (indistinct) . . . conference hobe Bombay te. Amader temple, mondire o khulbe. Tokhon amader conference . . . boro ekta auditorium, about 450 capacity. (. . . (indistinct) . . . will do conference in Bombay. Will also open in our temple. Then our conference . . . a big auditorium, about 450 capacity . . .)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Amare bole diben. Ekbar Bombay ghure asbo, khub bhalo jaiga. (You just inform me. I will go to Bombay, it's a very good place.) (laughter) . . . (indistinct)

'''Kaviraja:''' Aap iha kaha pe rehte hai? (Where do you stay here?)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Ami to oi . . . (indistinct) . . . (I stay at . . . (indistinct) . . .)

'''Kaviraja:''' Aisa koi Balaram Misra hai, usse jante hai? (By any chance do you know some Balaram Misra?)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Balaram Misra? . . . (indistinct) . . . janta hai. Uska sangskrita uchharon bahut achha hai. (Balaram Misra? . . . (indistinct) . . . yes I know. His sanskrit pronunciation is very good.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Ha. Wo koi jamin, Mandir wondir bana rahe the. Uska basa kaha hai, bari ahi hai? (Yes. I think with some land he is making a temple. Where is his residence? His home is here only?)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Ha. Oi Gopinath ka mandir ke pas. (Yes. Near Gopinath temple.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Achha, Gopinath ki mandir ke bagal me. (Well, it's near to the temple of Gopinath.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sob ektu prosad nao na. (You all please take some ''prasada''.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Moharaj jokhon kotha bolen tokhon bojha jai na je khub osukh moharaj er. (When Mahārāja (Prabhupāda) speaks then it can't be understood that he is so seriously ill.)

'''Ānanda Prabhu:''' Na. (Yes.)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Jab bolta hai! (When he speaks!) (laughter)

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' Will power.

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Will power. Hare Kṛṣṇa! (Chuckles)

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' ''Prasad''.

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī:''' Aare! (Oh you have brought!)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . (indistinct) . . . prochar korte gele onek somoi , sob nanan rokom kotha barta hoi. (. . . (indistinct) . . . for preaching work there may come up different types of unwanted words.)

'''Ānanda Prabhu:''' . . . (indistinct) . . . pita mata bolibe . . . (indistinct) . . . marobi rakhobi ja ichha tohar. Seba sukho dukkhho porom sompodo, nash hoi obidya dukhho. (. . . (indistinct) . . . they are to be considered our parents . . . (indistinct) . . . whether you will kill me or protect me my Lord, do whatever you wish. The happiness and sufferings in service is the greatest wealth, it destroys the miseries caused by ignorance.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Dukhha. ((Miseries.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Thik baat hai. (Very true.)

'''Ānanda Prabhu:''' (singing)

:''ātma-nivedana, tuwā pade kori'''
:''hoinu parama sukhī''
:''duḥkha dūre gelo, cintā nā rohilo''
:''caudike ānanda dekhi''

:''aśoka-abhoya, amṛta-ādhāra''
:''tomāra caraṇa-dwaya''
:''tāhāte ekhona, viśrāma labhiyā''
:''chāḍinu bhavera bhoya''
:(Atma Nivedana Tuwa Pade by Bhaktivinoda Thakura)

"I have become supremely joyful by surrendering myself at Your holy feet. Unhappiness has gone away, and there are no more anxieties. I see joy in all directions."

"Your two lotus feet are reservoirs of immortal nectar where one may live free from sorrow and fear. I have found peace there now and have given up the fear of worldly existence."

'''Kaviraja:''' Thik baat hai. Ohi nitya hai.(Yes correct. Only that is eternal.)

'''Ānanda Prabhu:''' (continues singing)

:''pūrva itihāsa, bhulinu sakala''
:''sevā-sukha pe'ye mane''
:''āmi to' tomāra, tumi to' āmāra''
:''ki kāja apara dhane''

:''bhakativinoda, ānande ḍubiyā''
:''tomāra sevāra tare''
:''saba ceṣṭā kore, tava icchā-mato''
:''thākiyā tomāra ghare''
:(Atma Nivedana Tuwa Pade by Bhaktivinoda Thakura)

"I have completely forgotten all past history by feeling great joy in my mind. I am most certainly Yours, and You are indeed mine. What need is there of any other treasure?"

"Bhaktivinoda, diving into the ocean of bliss, devotes all his efforts for Your service and dwells in Your house according to Your wishes."

'''Ānanda Prabhu:''' (continues singing)

:''ki jāni ki bale, tomāra dhāmete''
:''hoinu śaraṇāgata''
:''tumi doyā-moy, patita-pāvana''
:''patita-tāraṇe rata''

:''tomāra sakala, āmi mātra dāsa''
:''āmāra tāribe tumi''
:''tomāra caraṇa, korinu varaṇa''
:''āmāra nāhi to' āmi''
:(Ki Jani Ki Bale by Bhaktivinoda Thakura)

"How has one such as I come to Your shelter? Surely it is by Your mercy alone, for You are ever seeking the purification and deliverance of the fallen souls.
Everything is Yours. I am merely a servant, certain that You will deliver me. I have chosen Your lotus feet as my only shelter. I no longer belong to myself."

'''Ānanda Prabhu:''' (continues singing)

:''sarvasva tomār, caraṇe saḿpiyā''
:''poḍechi tomāra ghare''
:''tumi to' ṭhākur, tomāra kukur''
:''boliyā jānaho more''

:''bāńdhiyā nikaṭe, āmāre pālibe''
:''rohibo tomāra dwāre''
:''pratīpa-janere, āsite nā dibo''
:''rākhibo gaḍera pāre''

:''tava nija-jana, prasād seviyā''
:''ucchiṣṭa rākhibe jāhā''
:''āmāra bhojan, parama-ānande''
:''prati-din ha'be tāhā''

:''bosiyā śuiyā, tomāra caraṇa''
:''cintibo satata āmi''
:''nācite nācite, nikaṭe jāibo''
:''jakhona ḍākibe tumi''
:(Sarvasva Tomar Carane by Bhaktivinoda Thakura)

"Now that I have surrendered all I possess, I fall prostrate before Your house. You are the Supreme Lord. Kindly consider me Your household dog."

"Chain me nearby and maintain me as You will. I shall remain at the doorstep and allow no enemies to enter Your house. I will keep them at the bounds of the moat surrounding Your home."

"Whatever remnants Your devotees leave behind after honoring Your ''prasada'' will be my daily sustenance. I will feast on those remnants with great ecstasy."

"While sitting up, while lying down, I will constantly meditate on Your lotus feet. Whenever You call, I will immediately run to You and dance in rapture."

'''Ānanda Prabhu:''' (continues singing) . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Bhakti Vinod Thakurer gaan, aha. (The songs of Bhaktivinoda Thakura, how wonderful!) . . . self-realized (break)

'''Ānanda Prabhu:''' . . . (indistinct) . . . schha Mahārāja ekhon ashi. Dandawat. ( . . . (indistinct) . . . okay Mahārāja, I will take leave now. Dandavats.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . (indistinct) . . . dekhun ektu. Abar asben. (. . . (indistinct) . . . just see if something can be done. Please come again.) . . . (indistinct background comments)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. Khaoar pore. (Yes. After meal.)

'''Devotee:''' Khaoar pore. (After meal.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Just get the curtain and I will try for urine.

'''Śatadhanya:''' Yes, Prabhupāda. (indistinct background comments) It's set, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)

771103 - Conversation E - Vrndavana

2024-02-07T04:58:47Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"

[[Category:1977 - Conversations]]
[[Category:1977 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1977 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1977-11 - Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Conversations - India]]
[[Category:Conversations - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Bengali Snippets]]
[[Category:Audio Files 30.01 to 45.00 Minutes]]
[[Category:1977 - New Audio - Released in July 2012]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Conversations - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Conversations - by Date|Conversations by Date]], [[:Category:1977 - Conversations|1977]]'''</div>
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<div class="code">771103R5-VRNDAVAN - November 03, 1977 - 44:23 Minutes</div>

(Conversation with Gaura-Govinda and Giriraja)

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1977/771103R5-VRNDAVAN.mp3</mp3player>

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Uni eshechen Śrila Prabhupāda, Gaura-Govinda Mahārāja. (He has arrived, Śrila Prabhupāda. Gaura Govinda Mahārāja.) He has arrived, Śrila Prabhupāda, Gaura-Govinda Mahārāja.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ki khobor? (What's the news?) . . . (indistinct) . . . hmm.

'''Gaura-Govinda:''' It's okay. ''Bhāgavata'' has arrived. ''Bhāgavata'' has arrived, so I came here to have ''darśana''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Jagannātha Purī dhāme o . . . (indistinct) . . . (In Jagannātha Purī dhāma . . . (indistinct) . . .) tell me.

'''Gaura-Govinda:''' Yes. We have been to Jagannātha Purī, and some ''jagannātha-prasāda'' we have brought for you. Will you take some?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Kaj ta thik hocche? (Is the work being done properly?) What work he gives? Kaj shob thik . . . ki kaj hocche? (All the work . . . what work is going on?)

'''Gaura-Govinda:''' Now we'll begin construction. Our architect-engineer, Saṁjāta, was there. He was planning, and he was making plans, but unfortunately he passed away the last 23rd. So . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' What happened?

'''Gaura-Govinda:''' He suffered from fever. He had some fever, high fever. So he fell unconscious. The doctor came and gave some medicine. The fever was checked, but he gave some high-power medicines that affected his brain, and so he couldn't speak. He just collapsed and stayed still. We came to the hospital that night. Doctor tried his best. He gave saline and oxygen. He stayed the whole night, but at the daybreak he passed away, when the morning came, just on the morning, 23rd morning. It was ''ekādaśī'' day. That day he passed away. And on the day ''Bhāgavata'' reached. The very moment ''Bhāgavata'' reached there, he passed away.

'''Prabhupāda:''' These doctors give treatment, not reliable. They make experiment.

'''Gaura-Govinda:''' Yes.

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Śrila Prabhupāda, uni Jagannath deber prasad niye eshechen, ektu debo. (Śrila Prabhupāda, he has brought Lord Jagannātha's prasāda. Should I give some?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Na, na . . . (No . . .) give me some taste. I lost taste.

'''Bhakti-caru:''' (indistinct Bengali) . . . mishti Śrila Prabhupāda. Ektu mishri-jal debo? . . . (indistinct) (. . . sweet Śrila Prabhupāda. Shall I give you a little sugar water?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Mishri-jal debo? (Shall I give you sugar water?)

(pause)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Ar ektu dite hobe? (Shall I give you some more water?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Gaura-Govinda:''' With me it is Bhaktivikāśa Mahāyogī Mahārāja at Bhadrak who has donated that maṭha at Bhadrak. We have started new center? He has come with me to see you.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. Where is he?

'''Gaura-Govinda:''' Here.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja, daṇḍavat. Apni bangla bojhen? (Do you understand Bengali?)

'''Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja:''' Ha bangla. (Yes, I do.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Bangali? (Are you Bengali?)

'''Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja:''' Ha. (Yes.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Prabhupader shishya? (Are you Prabhupāda's disciple?)

'''Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja:''' Na. Ami tridandi swami, Om Vishnupada Bhaktisvarupa Parvat Maharaja er shishya. (No, I am the disciple of Tridaṇdī Swāmī, Oṁ Viṣṇupada Bhaktisvarūpa Parvat Mahārāja.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, Parvat Maharaja, amar guru-bhai. Oi Prafulla? (Oh, Parvat Mahārāja, my Godbrother. Hmm. That Prafulla?)

'''Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja:''' Agge? (I beg your pardon?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Prafulla, je ache Mayapure . . . (Prafulla, who is there in Māyāpura? . . .)

'''Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja:''' Na, she ekhon mathe . . . e line chede bahire chole geche. (No. He's not there. He has left the disciplic line and gone away.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ke? (Who?)

'''Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja:''' Prafulla bole je chilo. (The person called Prafulla, who was there.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ha? (Oh, yes?)

'''Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja:''' Tini ekhon nai mathe, bahire chole geche. (He is not there in the ''maṭha''. He's gone outside the disciplic line.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' She to Mayapure ache. (He's in Māyāpura.)

'''Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja:''' Mayapure ar ekta mather moton korechen tabe karor shonge she rokom bhabe jogdaan . . . tini onno rokom hoye achen. Amar nam age chilo Yudhisthira brahmachari. (He has started a center in Māyāpura but . . . he does not keep in touch or meet anyone. He's become different. Earlier my name was Yudhiṣṭhira ''brahmacārī''.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh? (Yes?)

'''Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja:''' Ei Hazra road e aat . . . aat number Hazra road e jokhon chilen takhon Kirtanananda prabhu ar ityadi shob puratan je brahmachari gana, shei shomoy ami shekahne chilam Maharaja er kache. Rashbihari prabhu, Kirtanananda prabhu ar . . . (indistinct) . . . (I was there at Hāzra Road . . . number eight Hāzra Road . . . when Kīrtanananda prabhu and some old ''brahmacārīs'' were there at that time with Mahārāja. Rāśabihārī prabhu, Kīrtanananda prabhu and . . . (indistinct) . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Tirtha Maharaja takhon sannyasa ney ni? (Tīrtha Mahārāja hadn't taken ''sannyāsa'' at that time?)

'''Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja:''' Agge? (I beg your pardon?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Tirtha Maharaja takhon sannyasa nenni? (Tīrtha Mahārāja hadn't taken ''sannyāsa'' at that time?)

'''Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja:''' Na, pore, onek pore sannyasa niyechen. (No, he took ''sannyāsa'' later, much later.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Parvat Maharaj koto din gata hoyechen? (How long has it been since Parvat Mahārāja left his body?)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' (repeating) Parvat Maharaj koto din gata hoyechen? (How long has it been since Parvat Mahārāja left his body?)

'''Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja:''' Choddo bochor . . . ha, choddo bochor na tero bochor . . . (Fourteen years . . . yes, fourteen years or thirteen years.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm . . . (indistinct Bengali) . . . paralysis hoyechilo (. . . He had paralysis . . .)

'''Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja:''' Agge. (Yes, that's right.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Koto din bhugechilen? (How long did he suffer?)

'''Bhaktivikāśa Mahārāja:''' Pray teen bochor, char bochor porjonto . . . (Up to nearly three years or four years.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. (long pause) What is the position of Bhadrak?

'''Gaura-Govinda:''' Bhadrak, there are three devotees now—Ātma-tattva, Kṛṣṇadāsa and Rohiṇī-nandana—and they were preaching and making some members. Bhadrak is a good place for preaching. And I also come there. Just on the 1st November, there was a festival that on that day Caitanya Mahāprabhu arrived there when He was going from Jagannātha Purī to Vṛndāvana. They observe that festival. So they have invited us to speak in that meeting on that day. ''Bhāgavata'' and I came. There was a great festival, and we do ''nagara-saṅkīrtana'' in the evening. In the meeting ''Bhāgavata'' spoke and then I spoke. This was very nice.

'''Prabhupāda:''' People are coming?

'''Gaura-Govinda:''' Yes, people are coming. People are coming. It is nice. In Bhadrak they have eight acres of land there. It's cultivated land. If we can manage ourselves, then that will be nice. Now this Mahārāja has given it to other agents. They'll take half and give the half. Nobody was there to look after it. So if we look after it now personally, and take it up ourselves, then it will be managed nicely. And there are two cows also, it has got.

'''Prabhupāda:''' The arrangement is nice.

'''Gaura-Govinda:''' It requires a little modification. We made some constructions there for ''brahmacārīs''. There is one Deity room, that is ''pakka'' house, and one more . . . (break) (whispering) . . . Anantadeva and Dr. Śyāmasundara.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes, I've been writing them.

'''Gaura-Govinda:''' Yes, they have written letters to Prabhupāda. (whispering)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' You can talk out loud. You can talk now. You said Anantadeva and Śyāmasundara dāsa Brahmacārī, they were dealing with the ''pāṇḍās''.

'''Gaura-Govinda:''' ''Pāṇḍās''. So recently Śyāmasundara Brahmacārī wrote me a letter to come to make ''Bhāgavata'' if I went there. He made proposal that we start ''nirjok sevā'' there at the Jagannātha temple, Anantadeva's proposal.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' ''Nirjok sevā''? What is that?

'''Gaura-Govinda:''' ''Nirjok sevā'' means we'll purchase a fireplace, chimney, and also a little cooking. And we'll give him rice, ''ḍāl'', ''sabjī'', cooking ''prasādam'', and that would be offered to Jagannātha, Lord Jagannātha. Then they would use that ''prasādam''. They would distribute it or . . . that is ''nirjok sevā''. That ''maṭha'' has appealed like that, "Do this thing." Then they will recognize us, and in that way we will get permission to enter.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Who will get permission?

'''Gaura-Govinda:''' There is one committee there. It is ''pāṇḍā's'' committee and the temple management committee.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' But who will be allowed to enter?

'''Gaura-Govinda:''' That will be passed in that committee.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' No, but they will allow Western people to enter Jagannātha temple?

'''Gaura-Govinda:''' Yes, yes. They have talked with that Anantadeva and Śyāmasundara, but they want money.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' They want ''nirjok sevā'' or they also want money?

'''Gaura-Govinda:''' By giving us permission, ''nirjok sevā'' means indirectly they want money. They'll take money, then they'll give us permission to do ''nirjok sevā'' and also, that way, entrance into the Jagannātha temple.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Oh. So how much money?

'''Gaura-Govinda:''' I talked with that Śyāmasundara and Anantadeva. He said thirty-six groups are there, ''nirjoks'', ''pāṇḍā'' groups. And administrator is there. They want something, and all groups want something. (whispering) One lakh of rupee.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' One lakh of rupees to see Jagannātha. But we can see Jagannātha in any temple in the world. Why do we have to pay one ''lakh'' of rupees? Śrīla Prabhupāda? I was saying that we don't have to pay one ''lakh'' of rupees to see Lord Jagannātha in Los Angeles.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Let them pray to Jagannātha for my cure immediately, or as soon as possible, I shall do that.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' If they pray to Lord Jagannātha for your cure . . .

'''Bhavānanda:''' Immediately or as soon as possible, then he'll . . .

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Oh. First they should do the praying.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Let me be in health. Then I'll do that.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Do you understand? Prabhupāda says that the answer is that first of all they should pray to Kṛṣṇa for Prabhupāda's cure, pray to Jagannātha for Prabhupāda's cure immediately, for his health. And then, when he is physically fit, then he will do the needful. But first of all, by their prayers to Jagannātha, they should make him physically fit. Is that right, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Who did you have talk with? Anantadeva or Śyāmasundara?

'''Gaura-Govinda:''' Anantadeva.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Who is Anantadeva?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Prabhupāda said: "Who is Anantadeva?"

'''Gaura-Govinda:''' Anantadeva . . . they have written letters to you, from that Śyāmasundara Brahmacārī and Anantadeva.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' But Anantadeva is connected with which group?

'''Gaura-Govinda:''' He is a disciple of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' He's disciple of Bhaktisiddhānta or Bhaktisiddhānta's disciple's disciple?

'''Gaura-Govinda:''' No, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Directly.

'''Gaura-Govinda:''' Yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Gaura-Govinda Mahārāja says he is your Godbrother, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There's thirty-six ''pāṇḍās''?

'''Gaura-Govinda:''' Thirty-six groups ''nirjoks''.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' ''Nirjoka''?

'''Gaura-Govinda:''' Yes. (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . moment I am sick. When I am well enough, I shall do something. Hmm? Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes, that's a very proper answer. So in order for you to be able to do something, they should pray to Jagannātha. (pause) Śrīla Prabhupāda? Girirāja is here.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. Girirāja?

'''Girirāja:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' How is your health?

'''Girirāja:''' Oh, I'm better. Improved.

'''Prabhupāda:''' What is the news of Nepal?

'''Girirāja:''' Oh, well, they have a very nice program there. They have a nice house with many rooms, and the Nepalese people . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' How many rooms?

'''Girirāja:''' About nine big rooms. And they do street ''saṅkīrtana'' every day in the main street, and they distribute literature. And the Society is not yet registered there, but I went with Prabhaviṣṇu to a lawyer, and we've set up the formalities for getting registered, but the government is presently reviewing the registration law, so it might take a few weeks before they accept our case.

'''Prabhupāda:''' On the whole, it is favorable. Hmm?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' On the whole, it is favorable?

'''Girirāja:''' Oh, yes. There is a tremendous scope.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm!

'''Girirāja:''' And the royal family is very powerful. They run the whole country, and, of course, they're Hindus. So I also went with Prabhaviṣṇu to meet one relation of the Queen Mother, and this lady was very enthusiastic about our activities. So I discussed with Prabhaviṣṇu the strategy how to approach the royal family, and . . . it's a Hindu state. They don't claim to be secular, like in India, so . . .

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Hopeful.

'''Girirāja:''' Yes, it is hopeful. Then he has one local boy who has joined, Nepali, and he's a very nice boy. I mean, there's so much field for preaching. There's the royal family, then there's membership for the business community, and then there's saṅkīrtana and book distribution for the general people, and then also there are many hippies there. So we could recruit devotees from amongst them.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' The hippies seem to be still our best customers, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' The hippies seem to be still very good customers. (Prabhupāda laughs)

'''Girirāja:''' That's because Prabhupāda is ''patita-pāvana''. And the temple atmosphere is nice. It's mainly ''saṅkīrtana''. There are no women there, so very good atmosphere. They have a nice program. They have a Love Feast program, and many people are coming. I think they can have two or three hundred people coming very soon. And the people are very simple and good natured. Everywhere we went, people would chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' They recognized the devotees?

'''Girirāja:''' Yes. And they're not envious. It seems that in India many of the people are a little envious of us, but everywhere we went in Nepal, it seemed that the people were very happy to see us.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Have you ever been there, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' You'd like to go sometime?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Why not?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Okay. We'll include that on our world ''parikramā''.

'''Girirāja:''' Actually, the relation of the Queen's mother whom we met, she was also asking about people coming who could give good lectures and enthuse everyone. So I said that you yourself would probably like to come when you're feeling better. So she was really wild about that idea. (laughter) I'm sure that they would give you a real royal welcome.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Very good field it sounds like, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Trivikrama:''' What about the language? Is there problem with language?

'''Girirāja:''' No. The educated people speak English. In all the schools they teach English, so all the youngsters speak English in Kathmandu. And then most people in Kathmandu, even if they don't speak English, they speak Hindi. And there are just a few who only speak Nepali. But Prabhaviṣṇu has arranged for ''The Perfection of Yoga'' to be translated into Nepali. So he's just . . .

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' He sounds like he's doing very good, Prabhaviṣṇu.

'''Girirāja:''' Yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Good man.

'''Girirāja:''' He's very good. So he's eager to get that in print. Then they'll be able to distribute literature to everyone without exception.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda? Do you remember when Prabhaviṣṇu was here you told him to go with "The courage of an Englishman and the heart of a Bengali mother"? He remembers those words.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' "Courage of an Englishman and the heart of a Bengali mother."

'''Prabhupāda:''' This is the word of a great poet.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Girirāja's parents took him there, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and they made another offer to him.

'''Prabhupāda:''' What is that? (Tamāla Kṛṣṇa laughs)

'''Girirāja:''' Well, no, they . . . my father has increased the fortune, so he was trying to tempt me again, but I wasn't interested. But I think in the end he may give in to Kṛṣṇa, because we were in . . . we were helping Prabhaviṣṇu by giving him dollars, and he would give us rupees. So we were in a shop, and my mother was making a check, which we were going to give . . . which she was giving to me to give to Prabhaviṣṇu. So the owner of the shop thought that the check was for him, and he started making some objections. So my father said: "No. In our system the husband gives to the wife, and the wife gives to the son, and the son gives to Kṛṣṇa." (laughter) So everyone laughed.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Just try to manage. (pause)

'''Girirāja:''' I had a very nice dream last night in which Your Divine Grace appeared. And you were walking around the premises of the Vṛndāvana temple, and there were some doll exhibits. So you were saying that they should improve the quality of the exhibits, because this is their sādhana. So I felt that you were, actually, you were telling me that I should improve the quality of my service and that this was my sādhana, but to be, you know, polite, instead of saying it directly, you were pointing out to their service. And then you started to speak very directly and very boldly, and you were saying . . . you quoted the verse:

:''āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa''
:''yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa''
:([[CC Madhya 7.128|CC Madhya 7.128]])

And you were saying: "This is my order, so you do it for me." And I mean, I felt that you were saying that since it was your order and we were doing it for you, even though it's very difficult, but it would be successful.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Anyway, there is a beginning in Nepal. Try to implement. (pause)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda? When you took prasādam today did you find a little taste? Not yet. Did you have any avocado?

'''Prabhupāda:''' That was little tasteful.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Hmm. You've been thinking about having that for a long time. You talked about it on and off before. Avocado is said to be very good, nutritious.

'''Prabhupāda:''' What is the rent of the house?

'''Girirāja:''' The rent? It's about twelve hundred rupees, but that's less than one thousand Indian rupees, and it's right on the way to the Paśu-pati-nātha temple, which is the biggest temple in Nepal.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. Very famous temple.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' You've heard of it, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. People go there to see.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' How is it on the way? Directly on the way?

'''Girirāja:''' Well, there's a crossroads which all the traffic passes to go to that temple, and our temple is about just a few hundred yards from that crossroads.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' We could put a sign on the road. We have a whole building?

'''Girirāja:''' Yes. It's a bungalow.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Hmm. In a compound?

'''Girirāja:''' Yes. In the compound they're growing flowers and vegetables.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Wow. How many acres?

'''Girirāja:''' Well, it's about half an acre, but whatever land they have, they're using.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' They have a lease?

'''Girirāja:''' I don't know if they have a lease, but the owner of the house is a Vaiṣṇava, and he's very . . . actually, his house is next door, and his house is called Viṣṇu-nivāsa.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh.

'''Girirāja:''' And when he built the second house, he wanted it to be used as a temple, and he called it Bhagavān-nivāsa.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' So he's very pleased with the use of the house.

'''Girirāja:''' Yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' How many members they've made there?

'''Girirāja:''' Well, he's only made two members. I think he's going to get into it a little more. He doesn't have to be registered to make members . . .

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Tax exempt?

'''Girirāja:''' . . . because the two members he made . . . tax exemption has to be . . . each case is considered individually. There's no system. But the lawyer and other people I spoke to felt that since it was a Hindu state, and since they wanted to encourage such activities, that they would give us tax exemption. There's even a community of Marwari businessmen. So Prabhaviṣṇu had made one or two members by giving receipts from Calcutta, since we're not registered. So I suggested that he should concentrate on the Marwaris for the time being, and he can give receipts from Calcutta, and that would be good practice, because they are the most willing to become members. And then, by the time he got registered, he could start approaching the Nepali businessmen.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' How will the Calcutta receipt help them?

'''Girirāja:''' Well, I don't think . . .

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' . . . they care much.

'''Girirāja:''' No. Just to give them something official. He has seven boys there now, and a few of them . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' They are taking their ''prasādam'' and living there?

'''Girirāja:''' Yes. They have nice meal in the morning and evening, and then in the day the main activity is they have the chanting party, and around the chanting party they distribute literature.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Very nice beginning, all-auspicious.

'''Trivikrama:''' Is the weather very cold?

'''Girirāja:''' It's not very cold. The climate is very healthful. In fact, two devotees were there who were in India for some time, and they felt a little weary, and they both said that they felt that their health and strength had increased.

'''Bhakti-caru:''' It's a beautiful city also.

'''Girirāja:''' Yes. It's very peaceful and clean.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Sounds like a good place to take you sometime, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Girirāja:''' The air is very, very pure. They hardly have any industry there, and very few motorcars. It's very unspoiled. So the air is clean and the people are also nice. Until a few years ago, there was no system of compulsory education, so the new ideas, Western ideas, have not come very much there.

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda, chanar ota baniyechilam, niye ashbo ekhon? (Śrīla Prabhupāda, I've made that cottage cheese preparation. Should I bring it?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda, would you like a little soft chanting?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Bhavānanda:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda, you haven't passed urine in some time. Would you like to try?

'''Prabhupāda:''' There is no . . .

'''Bhavānanda:''' I'm sorry?

'''Prabhupāda:''' There is no . . .

'''Bhavānanda:''' No need. (end)

761216 - Conversation - Hyderabad

2024-02-07T04:58:47Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"

730905 - Conversation A - Stockholm

2024-02-07T04:58:43Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"

[[Category:1973 - Conversations]]
[[Category:1973 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1973 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1973-09 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Conversations - Europe]]
[[Category:Conversations - Europe, Sweden - Stockholm]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - Europe]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - Europe, Sweden - Stockholm]]
[[Category:Conversations with Public Officials]]
[[Category:1973 - New Audio - Released in May 2015]]
[[Category:Audio Files 60.01 to 90.00 Minutes]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Hindi Snippets]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Conversations - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Conversations - by Date|Conversations by Date]], [[:Category:1973 - Conversations|1973]]'''</div>
{{RandomImage}}

<div class="code">730905R1-STOCKHOLM - September 05, 1973 - 74:08 Minutes</div>

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1973/730905R1-STOCKHOLM.mp3</mp3player>

(Conversation with Indian Ambassador, A. K. Damodaran)

'''Prabhupāda:''' When you left Moscow?

'''Ambassador:''' February, six months ago.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. I went Moscow in . . .?

'''Devotee:''' 1970.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Nineteen . . .?

'''Devotee:''' Seventy.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no. I think nineteen . . .

'''Haṁsadūta:''' Seventy-one.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Haṁsadūta:''' Seventy . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Two.

'''Haṁsadūta:''' Seventy-two, that's right.

'''Prabhupāda:''' June.

'''Haṁsadūta:''' June.

'''Devotee:''' That was last year?

'''Haṁsadūta:''' Seventy-one.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh? Seventy-one.

'''Devotee:''' In April, in the morning.

'''Prabhupāda:''' You were there at '71?

'''Ambassador:''' Seventy-one, I was, I think, there. I might have gone to India on leave. I returned in March, the end of March. Because I don't remember the . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. I went there in June, 1971.

'''Ambassador:''' And did you stay in the city, or did . . .?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, in National Hotel. One Madrasi gentleman . . .

'''Ambassador:''' I remember now, Sir. Abhiyarthe Natarajan.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Nataraja, yes.

'''Ambassador:''' Mr. Natarajan Rao told me, because I was away. I was away in Central Asia. I remember his telling me. And Natarajan looked after.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Ambassador:''' I see. Abhi toh yaad hai. (Now I remember.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' So you have heard something about our movement?

'''Ambassador:''' General, generally. In general. I hear . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' All over the world, they are expecting something spiritual enlightenment from India. That is a fact. But our government is callous in that respect. Therefore any so-called ''svāmī, yogīs'' come from India, they gather to receive him, to hear something from him. Yes. This is the tendency, that . . . the real thing is that people expected something . . . still they are respectful to India on account of the spiritual enlightenment.

That I have studied. Still they go to India to have some spiritual enlightenment. And actually we have got this in India. If anything has to be learned about spiritual, then it is only India. That has been admitted by one Chinese gentleman. He's a learned scholar. His book is recommended in New York University. I forget his name. He has written in his book that, "If you want to learn something religion and spiritual, then you must go to India."

'''Ambassador:''' It must be Lin Yutang, no?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Ambassador:''' Was it Lin Yutang?

'''Prabhupāda:''' I do not know.

'''Ambassador:''' Yutang. You see he's a very great admirer of India.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And that's a fact. But our Indian government is not very serious about it.

'''Ambassador:''' No, we have a difficulty, Your Eminence. You have got a problem in India because we have got this multi-religious society. So we have to be careful. But individuals can do it for the . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No . . .

'''Ambassador:''' Because we have got to be . . . we should not be misunderstood. As a government, we should not take too strong a policy about any particular religion, even though it is the religion of the majority of the people.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no, no. It is the duty of the government . . . secular state means neutral to any kind of religion. But it is the duty of government to see that people are religious. Not that, "Because government is secular, let the people go to hell."

'''Ambassador:''' No, that's true.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. If you are Muslim, and . . . it is my duty as government to see that you are actually acting as a Muslim. If you are a Hindu, it is the government's duty to see that you are acting as a Hindu. If you are a Christian, it is the government's duty . . . you cannot give up religion. ''Dharmena hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ'' (Hitopadeśa).

If people become irreligious in the name of secularism, then they are simply animals. So it is the government duty to see that the citizens are not becoming animals. He may profess a type of religion. That doesn't matter. But he must be religious. That is secular state. Not that secular state means government is callous: "Let the people become cats and dogs, without religion. Government doesn't care." That is not good government. What do you think?

'''Ambassador:''' I think, Your Eminence, there's a lot in what you say, but, you know, politics is the art of the possible.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No. No, politics means to see that people are advanced, citizens are advanced, not that they are degraded.

'''Ambassador:''' Your Eminence, I agree, but I think the duty of the government primarily is to provide conditions in which gifted people, spiritual people like you, leaders like you, can function. More than that, if the government does, it might probably even corrupt the religious . . . I don't know. Like an umpire in a game, you know, or something. Provide the conditions, provide the conditions for free speech. Not like Moscow, you know, where it is . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No. That is . . . just like you have got Commerce Department. Government has got. What is the duty of the Commerce Department? The government must see that the trade enterprise, commercial or industrial enterprise, they are doing nicely, properly. The government issuing license. They have got supervision. They send sometimes, what is called, inspectors. Education. Say, for education. There is educational inspector, school inspector.

They go see that the students are properly being educated in that school. Similarly, government should have expert men in the government to see that the Hindus are acting like Hindu, Muslims are acting like Muslim, and Christians are acting like Christian. The government should not be callous about religion. They may be neutral that, "Whatever religion you profess, government has nothing to do. You do nicely." But it is the government's duty to see that you are doing nicely, you are not bluffing. That is government duty.

'''Ambassador:''' Probably, as far as moral conduct is concerned, but more than that, how is it possible, you know? For the inner man in the spiritual mind, each individual can conceive his own thoughts. But the external conduct, the, the, what is called . . .?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no. External conduct means on religious principle.

'''Ambassador:''' This is what I was . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. ''Harāv abhaktasya kuto'' . . . I . . . you can, you can . . .

'''Ambassador:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . understand Sanskrit.

'''Ambassador:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ'' ([[SB 5.18.12|SB 5.18.12]]). If one has got faith and devotion to God . . . God is one. God is neither Christian nor Hindu nor Muslim. God is one. So religion means according to . . . not according, this is the Vedic conclusion.

:''sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo''
:''yato bhaktir adhokṣaje''
:''ahaituky apratihatā''
:''yenātmā suprasīdati''
:([[SB 1.2.6|SB 1.2.6]])

One must be religious. Without being religious, he cannot be satisfied. Therefore there is confusion, dissatisfaction all over the world because . . . because people have become irreligious. If you want to keep . . . in Calcutta there was, in the American Consulate Office, I was invited. There, they have got a department: "Indo-American Cultural Society." Perhaps you know.

'''Ambassador:''' I heard about it.

'''Prabhupāda:''' I was invited there to speak: "East and West." So I explained that so far we are concerned, we have no such thing as East and West. But still, there is difference between East and West that in the Eastern countries, especially in India, even in the remotest part of the village, a cultivator, poor cultivator, he'll understand God consciousness very easily. And so far in the West . . . I talked with Professor Kotovsky. Perhaps you know.

'''Ambassador:''' Yes. In Oriental Institute.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. He said: "Swāmījī, after this body's finished, everything is finished." You see? Such a big professor. He . . .

'''Ambassador:''' That is Marxist materialism.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Ambassador:''' It is Marxist materialism, I think.

'''Prabhupāda:''' But Marxist materialism, does it mean that a congregation of some fools and rascals?

'''Ambassador:''' I . . . (indistinct) . . . true.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Does it mean they write that some congregation of fools and rascals? Such a big professor, he does not know; he cannot understand even that there is life after death, he has to accept another body, as we are accepting different bodies. I was a child. You were a child. Then I became a boy. That is different body. Different consciousness also. A child, three-four years, he talks in a different way. A boy, ten-twelve years, he talks in a different way, and a young man, educated young man, he talks in a different way. So with the change of the body, the consciousness is changing. Is it not?

'''Ambassador:''' Yes, this is true.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Children, small children, they're just like animal. The cats and dogs, just they are playing, they're also playing like that. But he, he does not belong to that category, because when he'll get . . . he'll get another body, in which he'll be intelligent. Another body, he'll be highly educated. Another body, he'll be doctorate. The cats and dogs, they'll have to wait to get that body. So with the body, we are changing our consciousness. So different body, different consciousness. Similarly, why not after death a different body, different consciousness, if you make progress? Yes. This is progress, you see. So that is confirmed in ''Bhagavad-gītā'': ''tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati.''

:''dehino 'smin yathā dehe''
:''kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā''
:''tathā dehāntara-prāptir''
:''dhīras tatra na muhyati''
:([[BG 2.13 (1972)|BG 2.13]])

So the people cannot understand. That means they are not ''dhīra'', not even, according to Vedic conc . . . not even gentlemen. One who cannot understand this simple theory that, "After this body, as I have changed so many bodies, similarly, I shall change this body also." That's a fact. So ''dhīras tatra na muhyati. Dhīra'', one who has got brain, one who can think, he'll not be puzzled. "Yes, he has . . . death means he has changed body." Any gentle, good brain will understand. But people are so foolish now, they cannot understand. They are not educated even to understand this simple thing. This is the position of the world. Even a big professor like Kotovsky. So this is the position of our present human society.

'''Ambassador:''' But in the countries like Moscow, Soviet Union, they are hostile, against it, but in most parts of the world, they're indifferent. I mean, it's . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no. Why Moscow? Everywhere. Moscow, they are, rather, good that they say: "We don't believe in God."

'''Ambassador:''' That's true. That's true.

'''Prabhupāda:''' But others, they say that, "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I believe in God," but he does not know anything.

'''Ambassador:''' I'm afraid most of us are like that, to be honest. That's true.

'''Prabhupāda:''' I should say that Moscow are gentlemen. Because they cannot understand, they say, "Don't believe."

'''Ambassador:''' It's ''mūḍha-dhī.''

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. (laughs) But these rascals, they say: "Yes, I'm religious," but he's doing most irreligious activities. You see? I asked the Christian so many times that, "Your Bible says, 'Thou shall not kill.' And why you are killing?" They cannot give any satisfactory answer. This is my experience. It is clearly said, "Thou shall not kill." And they are maintaining slaughterhouses. What is this? The other day in London, one lady, she was showing me . . . she . . .

(aside) You were present? Broke some grass blade?

'''Haṁsadūta:''' Oh, yes, I was present.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Just see. Breaking a grass blade is equal to keeping a big, organized slaughterhouse. Just see.

'''Ambassador:''' I see.

'''Prabhupāda:''' This is their intelligence. (laughs) She has complained, "It is also killing." Supposing it is killing. Actually it is not killing. Supposing it is killing. This killing and keeping organized slaughterhouse killing is the same thing. Just see. People have become so degraded.

'''Ambassador:''' This is sophistry.

'''Prabhupāda:''' They give this example that "You also kill vegetable, just this grass blade is broken. It is killed. So it is equal to maintaining a big slaughterhouse." You see? This is going on, under the name of re . . . they, they are Christian nuns. In London they come to me, talk some time. So . . . and in India also, we see now cow killing is going on, regular slaughterhouse and . . . what can I say? You are government man. (laughs) You may take some wrong views about me. What is your opinion, personal?

'''Ambassador:''' I'm afraid I'm a very democratic person. If people, if they sincerely believe that they cannot exist without meat, they should be permitted, and once that is granted . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no, no.

'''Ambassador:''' . . . you have to organize slaughterhouses.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then, then that is the . . . our misfortune that we have lost our Indian culture.

'''Ambassador:''' Because . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Indian culture.

'''Ambassador:''' Your Grace, what you want is really a sort of complete . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, I don't want.

'''Ambassador:''' . . . a strong, obedient, disciplined society. But the moment the disciplinarian becomes a dictator, it is . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' It is, it is the duty of the government to see. That is the government. Strong government means . . .

'''Ambassador:''' It's the ''Rāma-rājya'' ideal, I'm not . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Strong government means that, that government should be very, very vigilant that citizens are doing their duty properly. That is the first duty. They should be given all protection. At the same time . . . just like father gives protection to the children, at the same time, very strict that they are morally and disciplinary, they are going, coming out nice.

That is father's duty. It is government's duty. If the father thinks, "Let my son go to hell. I don't care. I give them some food. That's all," is that father's duty? No. Father's duty, to arrange for their food, for their dress, for their shelter, at the same time to see that they are growing nice, not rascals. That is father's duty. Similarly, government's duty is that. We see from Vedic ''śāstra'' government duty is that. Otherwise why there is need of government?

Government . . . now it is government, but formerly it was the king. The king must be representative of God. Because . . . who is God? God means ''nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām, eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān'' (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). ''Kaṭhopaniṣad''. So God, what is God? God means He's also person. ''Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām.'' He is also eternal, He's also cognizant. We are also eternal, we are also cognizant. But what is the difference between God and we? The difference is He maintains us. ''Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Bahu-vacanam, nityānām, cetanānām'', this is ''bahu-vacanam''. And ''nityaḥ, cetanaḥ, eka-vacanam''. So what is the difference between this singular number and plural number? The singular number is maintaining the plural number. ''Eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān.''

So God is maintaining everyone. So difference is that He is so powerful, He can maintain every living entity. He's maintaining the elephants in Africa, who eat, at a time, forty kilos. He's supplying food. There's no scarcity of food in the jungle for the elephants. Neither there is scarcity . . . in the hole of your room, you'll find hundreds and thousands of ''chinti''. Who is feeding them, within the hole? Unless they're eating, sleeping, the same thing are there. How they are living very nicely? But who is giving them food within the hole, a small hole? You did not provide that hole. You did not provide their food. But there are hundreds and millions of ants. They're living there within the hole very happily. Sometimes they come out. We see: "Oh, wherefrom so many hundreds coming?" So ''eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān''. That is God. He's supplying food.

So there are 8,400,000 different forms of living entities. Out of that, 400,000 are human beings. Out of that, many are uncivilized. The uncivilized aborigines live in the jungle. They have no economic problem. They're also human being. They never come to city for food. They are maintaining themselves. The elephants are maintaining. The ants are maintaining. Why the civilized, a few men, they have got so problem, so many problem? Because they . . . we are not only the living entities. There are 8,400,000 different forms of living entities. They're all being maintained by the Supreme Lord.

In the ''Bhagavad-gītā'' it is said that ''sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ'' ([[BG 14.4 (1972)|BG 14.4]]): "As many forms are there, in all different species," ''ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā'', "I am the father." As father maintains the sons, as we see actually, He's maintaining. So why you are so much . . .? Our father is rich. He's not poor. God is not poor. ''Ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇa.'' Six kinds of opulence fully. So why are you talking of this overpopulation, scarcity of food? Why? Actually the father is God. He's maintaining. And factually we see how many human beings, civilized human beings, are there. The other living beings are many hundred thousand times bigger quantity. If they can be maintained by God, what we have done that He'll not maintain us? He'll maintain us. He's maintaining. So many people, they say, "India is starving." I am Indian. I never see any man starving and died. I've never seen. This is simply advertisement. What is your opinion?

'''Ambassador:''' There is poverty.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Ambassador:''' There is poverty.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Poverty, there is poverty in other countries also.

'''Ambassador:''' Also.

'''Prabhupāda:''' There, there also . . . now India has got poverty. So why in America and Europe there are hippies. Why?

'''Ambassador:''' It's an express . . . it's another type of poverty.

'''Prabhupāda:''' They're also thinking that, "We are not sumptuously fed," or something. Some demands is there. Some demand. And they are lying down, Amsterdam and here, on the street. And why? But they are coming of rich family, rich nation. Especially America. In London also, I have seen, in Regent Park, they're lying down. Police is kicking. Police is kicking: "Get up, get up!" Why? Behind them the British Empire is, British government is there. Why he's lying down there? Who has told him to . . .? Government is requesting, "If you have no home, come on, I shall give you home." In Bombay also, these, what is called? The huts?

'''Haṁsadūta:''' Huts?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Haṁsadūta:''' Those tent huts?

'''Prabhupāda:''' They are on the . . . you have seen in Bombay?

'''Ambassador:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' We passed, when we passed while coming from aerodrome to city . . .

'''Ambassador:''' From . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' So many thatched cottages, small. So Bombay government has given them home, that "You come here, live." But what do they . . .? They rent to some, another man, and they live in the . . . in Madras also, I have seen.

'''Ambassador:''' I know. That's true.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. They don't like. They don't like. They want to that . . .

'''Ambassador:''' They roam, yes. It's what the gypsies did, you know.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Ambassador:''' When they were given houses in Moscow.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So there are different ''prakṛtis. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ'' ([[BG 3.27 (1972)|BG 3.27]]). So there are different ''prakṛtis'', different mentality. They want to live, eat. The eating, sleeping, mating, defending is there, but everyone has got different ideas. Just like you say, majority of people, they want to eat meat. They have got different mentality. But we don't want.

'''Ambassador:''' In India, of course, not majority, I think it's a minority.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no. More . . .

'''Ambassador:''' Most people are . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, yes. In India, they're being now educated to eat meat. (Ambassador laughs) Otherwise, Indians, at least Hindus . . .

'''Ambassador:''' It is true. That's true. (laughing)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh? They are being educated.

'''Ambassador:''' (laughing) I belong to vegetarian family. I eat meat now.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. No, in Madras, I have seen . . .

'''Ambassador:''' Most of them . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Mostly they are vegetarian, strictly vegetarian. Actually, in southern India, they maintain the Hindu culture. You'll find big high-court judges, they have got ''tilaka''.

'''Ambassador:''' That's true.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Strictly in Rāmānuja-sampradāya, or Śaiva-sampradāya they have got . . . strictly taking bath, and ''tilaka''. In New Delhi, you'll find so many Madrasi gentlemen, big, big, high officers, they're strictly following Hindu principles.

'''Ambassador:''' You'll be surpri . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' And still, if I am correct, in Madras they, there, there is not many Muhammadans. The Muhammadan culture could not enter . . .

'''Ambassador:''' That's very true.

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . into Madras, southern India. And you'll find also in our ''Caitanya-Caritāmṛta'' . . . now I am translating. When Caitanya Mahāprabhu went to southern India, practically whole southern India became Vaiṣṇava by His preaching.

'''Ambassador:''' It is a great period of . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Yes. And all the ''ācāryas'', they came from Southern India. Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya. I think Madhvācārya belonged to your province? Malaya?

'''Ambassador:''' No, Śaṅkarācārya ki . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Śaṅkarācārya.

'''Ambassador:''' From Kerala. Sir, I have got a question. I have not really been able to locate when exactly Rādhā entered Hindu mythology. Because the ''Bhāgavatam'' doesn't mention. They mention only ''rāsa-krīḍā'' as a . . . before that, they were, before Gaurāṅga, Caitanya, did you . . . do you when did exactly the ''bhakti'' cult take . . . the Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, I mean. They were generally the gopīs and . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Other ''ācāryas'', they elevated people up to ''sākhya-rasa.''

'''Ambassador:''' ''Sākhya-rasa''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' It is Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He gave us ''mādhurya-rasa.''

'''Ambassador:''' ''Mādhurya-rasa.''

'''Prabhupāda:''' Therefore about Caitanya Mahāprabhu it is said, ''anarpita-carīṁ cirāt. Anarpita-carīṁ cirāt karuṇayāvatīrṇaḥ kalau samarpayitum unnatojjvala-mādhurya-rasāṁ'' . . .

:''anarpita-carīṁ cirāt karuṇayāvatīrṇaḥ kalau''
:''samarpayitum unnatojjvala-rasāṁ sva-bhakti-śriyam''
:''hariḥ puraṭa-sundara-dyuti-kadamba-sandīpitaḥ''
:''sadā hṛdaya-kandaresphuratu vaḥ śacī-nandanaḥ''
:([[CC Adi 1.4|CC Adi 1.4]])

It is the gift of Śacīnandana, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that Kṛṣṇa can be served in ''mādhurya-rasa'', in conjugal love. That is Śrī Caitanya. And amongst the gopīs, Rādhārāṇī was the best ''gopī'', foremost. ''Anayārādhitaḥ''. This, this is mentioned in ''Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.''

'''Ambassador:''' Oh, I see.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Anayārādhitaḥ''.

'''Ambassador:''' Oh, this is the beginning.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Anayārādhitaḥ. When Kṛṣṇa disappeared from ''rāsa-līlā, rāsa'' dance, then gopīs went out to search Him out, and at that time they saw that one ''gopī'' is most beloved by Kṛṣṇa. ''Anayārādhitaḥ''. Therefore "Rādhā."

'''Ambassador:''' ''Anayārādhitaḥ''?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Ambassador:''' I do not know what we can do here, Your Grace, but we will be very happy to help them if they want any special material like ''ḍāl'' or any vegetables or . . . whatever it is . . . I think they are quite well . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. We, we, we have no fixed income.

'''Ambassador:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' But Kṛṣṇa has given us opportunity. Our books are selling . . . you have seen our books?

'''Ambassador:''' I've seen them in Moscow. One gentleman had a complete set. So I have glanced through them. Especially the ''Bhagavad'' . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Bhagavad-gītā'' ''As It Is''?

'''Ambassador:''' . . . translation, yes. And also the ''Bhāgavatam'', also.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Bhagavad-gītā'' ''As It Is''.

'''Ambassador:''' Yes, this one, yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' This is published by Macmillan Company. We are selling about more than one ''lakh'' copies per year through Macmillan Company. Yes. Similarly, we are selling our other books. (aside) Bring . . .

'''Ambassador:''' The complete set I have seen. They designed also the other . . . ''Bhāgavatam'', and also the other . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is not yet complete. ''Bhāgavatam'' will be finished in sixty volumes.

'''Ambassador:''' Oh, sixty.

'''Prabhupāda:''' We have published only six volume. Our manuscript is ready, but it requires great amount of money to publish.

'''Ambassador:''' And also . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' But we are satisfied that in English-reading public, in Australia and America, in England, Europe—we are publishing in different languages—people are accepting our books very nicely. And lately that one distributor . . .

'''Ambassador:''' Oh, I see.

'''Prabhupāda:''' This. No, not this. Where is that catalog?

'''Haṁsadūta:''' Brockridge, Keenan and Hall?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah, ah?

'''Haṁsadūta:''' Catalog? I think we must have left that in London.

'''Prabhupāda:''' They are also distributing our books, Macmillan Company. People are . . . now there will be a big meeting on the 12th September, how to organize. Because this kind of literature was there; there was none before this. The ''bhakti'' cult, this was never presented to the Western countries.

'''Ambassador:''' Yes, yes. Mostly it was Vivekananda's explanation.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Vivekananda did not know anything about ''bhakti''.

'''Ambassador:''' No, I mean he just, literally, it's not ''bhakti'' at all. Yes, it is . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Neither Vivekananda nor any ''svāmī'', That is the, I mean to say, regrettable fact. They, actually . . . even Dr. Radhakrishnan, he could not present ''Bhagavad-gītā'' as it is. You see? He's impersonalist, and he presented in a different way, and now Professor . . . Dr. Pirindher . . .?

'''Haṁsadūta:''' Pilinder.

'''Prabhupāda:''' He said, he came to see me that, "Now we have rejected Dr. Radhakrishnan."

'''Ambassador:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Because everyone has speculated in his own way. Therefore we have presented ''Bhagavad-gītā'' as it is. And if you have got time, we can read some of the portions, how we have presented as it is. So people are liking this, as it is. Otherwise, ''Bhagavad-gītā'' is well known in the Western country, all over Europe. But because it was not presented as it is, there was not a single devotee of Kṛṣṇa. You find out, the whole history. ''Bhagavad-gītā'' is meant for making the reader a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Is it not?

'''Ambassador:''' That's true.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja'' ([[BG 18.66 (1972)|BG 18.66]]). So who can become fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa unless he's a devotee? So it is a transaction between God and His devotee. That's a fact. ''Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru'' ([[BG 18.65 (1972)|BG 18.65]]). These are the clear declaration. He's asking everyone, "Just become My devotee. Always think of Me. Offer Me obeisances." ''Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī''. "Worship Me." ''Māṁ namaskuru''. He, He is deprecating the worship of demigods. ''Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ.''

(aside) Find out this verse. ''Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante 'nya-devatāḥ'' ([[BG 7.20 (1972)|BG 7.20]]).

''Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām'' ([[BG 7.23 (1972)|BG 7.23]]): "Less intelligent persons, they simply worship the demigods." This is the statement.

'''Ambassador:''' Most of . . . well, I was a very political person. I must be very honest with you.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, I'm talking of . . .

'''Ambassador:''' To me, ''Gītā'' means Gandhi's ''Gītā'', which said in a very distorted, very limited version . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Gandhi did not know anything about ''Bhagavad-gītā''.

'''Ambassador:''' (laughs) I understand him the most.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Well, you . . . Gandhi may give his opinion, but why he should give through ''Bhagavad-gītā''?

'''Ambassador:''' I know. ''Anāsakta''-''yoga'' is really . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' He should not take advantage of . . . that is being done. Everyone is taking advantage of the popularity of ''Bhagavad-gītā'' and he's expressing his own opinion.

'''Ambassador:''' That's true.

'''Prabhupāda:''' This is going on. We want to stop this nonsense. If you have got opinion, you write different book.

'''Ambassador:''' Yes. But not . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Why you should misuse ''Bhagavad-gītā''?

'''Ambassador:''' The devil can quote the scripture for his purpose.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Ambassador:''' That's what Shakespeare said Sir, "The devil can quote the scripture for his purpose."

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's it. Yes. That's a fact. Yes, why you should try to introduce your philosophy, now, say, for Gandhi's nonviolence? Where is nonviolence in ''Bhagavad-gītā''?

'''Ambassador:''' (laughs.) It's . . . yeah, this is true. ''Ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ, dharmo 'hiṁsā tathaiva ca.''

'''Prabhupāda:''' So our, our point is that you may express your own op . . . everyone has got right to, especially Mahatma Gandhi. He was actually a great personality. There is no doubt about it. But so far ''Bhagavad-gītā'' is concerned, he did not know anything. But from his behavior, it was seen that at heart he was a devotee. Yes. At heart he was a devotee. Yes. Because he was chanting . . .

'''Ambassador:''' Yes, he, of course, shares with you this belief in chants. That we noticed, yes, very much in . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' That ''raghupati rāghava rājā rāma''.

'''Ambassador:''' Vaiṣṇavism.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah. So that . . . but maybe for politics he has explained like that. Now what is that verse?

'''Pradyumna:'''

:''kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ''
:''prapadyante 'nya-devatāḥ''
:''taṁ taṁ niyamam āsthāya''
:''prakṛtyā niyatāḥ svayā''
:([[BG 7.20 (1972)|BG 7.20]])

"Those whose minds are distorted by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. Next verse.

'''Pradyumna:'''

:''yo yo yāṁ yāṁ tanuṁ bhaktaḥ''
:''śraddhayārcitum icchati''
:''tasya tasyācalāṁ śraddhāṁ''
:''tām eva vidadhāmy aham''
:([[BG 7.21 (1972)|BG 7.21]])

"I am in everyone's heart as the Supersoul. As soon as one desires to worship the demigods, I make his faith steady so that he can devote himself to some particular deity."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. Then next?

'''Pradyumna:'''

:''sa tayā śraddhayā yuktas''
:''tasyārādhanam īhate''
:''labhate ca tataḥ kāmān''
:''mayaiva vihitān hi tān''
:([[BG 7.22 (1972)|BG 7.22]])

'''Prabhupāda:''' That also ''kāmān''. Whatever benediction they get, that is sanctioned by Kṛṣṇa. They cannot give it independently.

(aside) (bangs on desk) You can keep it here. These six volumes are already published.

'''Ambassador:''' Oh, I see, ''Bhagavad-gītā''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' But, uh, no, this is ''Bhāgavatam''.

'''Ambassador:''' ''Śrī Bhāgavatam.''

'''Prabhupāda:''' Similar, another fifty-four volumes is to be published.

'''Ambassador:''' Oh, it's a tremendous undertaking.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, yes.

'''Ambassador:''' Whatever might be the difference of opinion about the, you know, the subtleties, you see, this itself is very great.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And we have given each meaning of. You can see the Sanskrit verse, how we have explained. Here and in America especially, as soon as they see, they purchase the whole set, six copies. You see?

'''Ambassador:''' Beautiful. Very, very elegant English also.

:''ātma-tattva-viśuddhy-arthaṁ''
:''yad āha bhagavān ṛtam''
:''brahmaṇe darśayan rūpam''
:''avyalīka-vratādṛtaḥ''
:([[SB 2.9.4|SB 2.9.4]])

And then you, you make it easy. Actually, it's . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Transliteration also.

'''Ambassador:''' . . . it's for students also.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Transliteration.

'''Ambassador:''' Yes. Transliteration and then (Sanskrit) and then for the . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Translation.

'''Ambassador:''' . . . ''viccheda''. How long will Your Divine Grace be here?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Four days?

'''Haṁsadūta:''' It's on the 11th. Eleventh morning we're leaving, back to London.

'''Ambassador:''' Back to London. And you visiting only Sweden this time?

'''Haṁsadūta:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Ambassador:''' Not Copenhagen or Oslo?

'''Haṁsadūta:''' No.

'''Devotee:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda attem . . . he traveled to Paris, and also, previously, to Amsterdam and Germany, in years previously.

'''Ambassador:''' This temple is going to be a permanent situation, this particular building, or . . .?

'''Devotee:''' Yes.

'''Ambassador:''' Or somewhere.

'''Devotee:''' In the beginning stage, yes.

'''Ambassador:''' Yes, then you'll have to locate something.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So practically single-handed I am trying to give this original Indian culture to the world. And nobody's helping me. Neither, if some rich man wants to help me, government will not allow to help me.

'''Ambassador:''' Oh, yes, especially . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Now just like Sir Padampat Singhania of Kanpur, he promised that "You just construct a nice temple in New York." He wanted to give the money, and the government will not allow.

'''Ambassador:''' Oh, foreign exchange.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Not allow. I made correspondences with the government. The last reply was that "You can raise fund locally, but you cannot take money from here." Now who will pay? Of course, these boys are paying me. We are getting . . . now recently, one boy, you know his name, George Harrison. He's a very famous singer.

'''Ambassador:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So he has purchased for me one house, fifty-five ''lakhs'' worth. But what . . . no Indian could help me. At £220,000. So it is equivalent to fifty-five ''lakhs''.

'''Ambassador:''' But I'm told that you have fifty-five temples in the West . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, why fifty? More than fifty. In USA we have got about fifty temples. And Australia, also, we have got five temples. And Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and . . .

'''Devotee:''' Perth.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Perth. And Darwin.

'''Ambassador:''' Darwin also.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. And we had very gorgeous Ratha-yātrā ceremony in Australia. In London also. You know that? Ten thousand people participated, and we distributed ''prasādam''.

'''Ambassador:''' On the 12th you'll have it in London.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Ambassador:''' This big meeting will be in London, on the 12th.

'''Haṁsadūta:''' That is another meeting. Our Ratha-yātrā was held on July 8th in London.

'''Ambassador:''' Yes, that's right.

'''Haṁsadūta:''' July 8th. And simultaneously in San Francisco and in Sydney. All over the world.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And during Janmāṣṭamī, the . . .

'''Ambassador:''' Ah, Janmāṣṭamī.

'''Prabhupāda:''' The, the ambassador, Mr. Rasagotra . . .

'''Ambassador:''' Rasagotra.

'''Prabhupāda:''' He came. He's very nice man.

'''Ambassador:''' Yes. He suffered, you know.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Ambassador:''' In personal life also, he has suffered.

'''Prabhupāda:''' One of his sons died.

'''Ambassador:''' That's what I was telling. He's a very good man. His wife is also coming from a very religious family, like what Your Grace said, you know. His wife's grandfather was one of the real ''sādhus'', you see. He lived in a . . . he was a judge, but he was also a ''yogī''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh.

'''Ambassador:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Our history, we find so many ''gṛhasthas'', householder kings, ''rājarṣi''. In the ''Bhagavad-gītā'' it is said, ''evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ'' ([[BG 4.2 (1972)|BG 4.2]]). ''Rājā'', king, at the same time, ''ṛṣi''. This was the king. Just like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, ''rājarṣi''. He's a king, but ''ṛṣi''. You read that portion. Yes. The government of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, how they were happy, just see. ''Kāmam, kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ'' ([[SB 1.10.4|SB 1.10.4]]). ''Parjanya. Parjanya'' means cloud. Yes. ''Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ''. The, all our necessities come from the rain. Now there is scarcity of rain. What the government can do or the scientists can do? And if there is no rain, then all your plan is finished.

'''Ambassador:''' Yes, that's true.

'''Prabhupāda:''' All his plan is finished.

(aside) Read it.

'''Ambassador:''' ''Anāvṛṣṭi, avṛṣṭi-bhuj''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And that is stated in the ''Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam'': ''anāvṛṣṭi, durbhikṣa'' and ''kara-pīḍita''. One side, there will be no rain, and there will be scarcity of food grain, and government will tax heavily. In this way people will become mad, and they will give up their hearth and home and go to the forest. This is the foretelling of it. This is going to happen. Actually, people are being perplexed in that way. There is scarcity of food . . .

'''Ambassador:''' Yes, there is.

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . and there is scarcity of rain, and government tax is increasing every year. Read that.

'''Pradyumna:'''

:''kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ''
:''sarva-kāma-dughā mahī''
:''siṣicuḥ sma vrajān gāvaḥ''
:''payasodhasvatīr mudā''
:([[SB 1.10.4|SB 1.10.4]])

"During the reign of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, the clouds showered all the water that people needed, and the earth produced all the necessities of man in profusion. Due to its fatty milk bag and cheerful attitude, the cow used to moisten the grazing ground with milk."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Now, happy attitude. Now the cow are going to be killed. They know it, that "We are going to be killed." They're also intelligent living entity. So how they can be happy? If some human being concentrated in a camp, and they know that "We are going to be killed," can they be happy? So if one is not happy, if the cow is not happy, can she supply sufficient milk? No. No. Therefore just they were happy.

Therefore milk was supplied so much that the grazing ground became wet with milk. Muddy. With milk, not with water. So we, we have no intelligence how to live. We . . . our ''Bhagavad-gītā'' says, ''kṛṣi-go-rakṣya vaiśya.'' Means ''kṛṣi-go-rakṣya'', to protect cows. Nowadays not to protect cows—to kill cows. Just see, business. ''Vaiśya'' means businessman. So ''vaiśya's'' business is ''kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya''-''karma'' ''svabhāva-jam'' ([[BG 18.44 (1972)|BG 18.44]]). But no ''go-rakṣya''. Cutting the throat of ''go''. This kind of sinful activities are going on, and they want to be happy. Instead of giving protection to the cows . . . in the ''Bible'' also it is said that the animals are given under the protection of the human being.

'''Devotee:''' Man, yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Man. The protection means to kill them. Just see. They have interpreted like that, that "The animals have been given to us to kill them and eat." This is their interpretation.

'''Ambassador:''' Swāmījī, I have taken so much already . . . you have been so kind.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, it is very kind of you that you have come.

'''Ambassador:''' No, it's all on you.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Give him ''prasāda''.

'''Haṁsadūta:''' Yeah, we're preparing ''prasādam''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Please.

'''Haṁsadūta:''' ''Purīs'' and nice rice.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So we are simply trying to revive people's dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So every sane man, every good government, everyone should come forward to help this movement. It is not a personal affair. We are not presenting that, "I am ''avatāra''. I am God." We are presenting science, philosophy. You see? Why we are taking so much trouble to write so many books? If we . . .

We want to convince people through science, philosophy, logic, religious principle, by practical behavior. All these boys are being trained up not to have any illicit sex, not to eat meat and not to take any intoxication up to tea, coffee, cigarette, and not to indulge in gambling. They're doing that. So we are making man of character, man of religion, man of philosophy. Why people should not cooperate with us? We are not presenting any blind, so-called religious faith. No. That is not our business. Our business is ''caitanyera-dayā kathā karaha vicāra''. You understand little Bengali? You understand Hindi.

'''Ambassador:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:'''

:''caitanyera-dayā kathā karaha vicāra''
:''vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra''
:([[CC Adi 8.15|CC Adi 8.15]])

If you are sane man, if you give due consideration and then give your judgment, then you'll find that it is wonderful. ''Caitanya-dayā kathā karaha vicāra''. We don't say that you take it blindly. No. ''Vicāra''. After full logic and consideration you accept, not blindly. But if you do that, you'll see it is wonderful. It is wonder . . . so why those who are advanced in education, they should not take this movement seriously and try to understand seriously and cooperate with us? It is not a blind thing. So . . . actually, from government level we are not getting any support. Not . . . I don't speak in India. Anywhere.

'''Ambassador:''' Yes, I am aware of the government problem.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh? Because they think, "Oh, it is religious." Not only they are . . . in America there are big, big foundation. As soon as we submit some petition, "Help us," "No, no, we don't help any religious movement." That's all. We don't get any help. Simply Kṛṣṇa has given us this chance of selling these books. That's all. Nobody's cooperating. Rather, when our people go to sell these literature and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, they're arrested and harassed.

'''Ambassador:''' I see.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Ambassador:''' That is because of, I think, a lot of confusion with the drug movement, hippies and all of this . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. But . . . it may be . . . you might have been cheated by counterfeit money in some place. Does it mean there is no good money? What is this reason? "Because I have been cheated by some man, he gave me some counterfeit money, therefore I'll not touch money any more. No. Any . . . no, that's all. I don't like." What is this? He must judge whether it is counterfeit or real. That is required. So if you can help us in some way or other, try to help us. Otherwise we shall go on with this single-handed. But I am not getting any help from any other source. Then this movement had been . . . would have been very, very rapidly progressing. It is progressing, but . . . because we don't get any support. Lord Buddha's movement was spread because King Ashoka supported.

'''Devotee:''' Christ.

'''Ambassador:''' Christ also? Constantine?

'''Devotee:''' Protestantism, yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Devotee:''' The Protestant movement also, when they broke away from the Catholic church, the kings would protect the movement and fight to protect.

'''Prabhupāda:''' It is king's duty.

'''Ambassador:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Ambassador:''' But we are . . . your Grace small people. We can only, we cannot go beyond the . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. That I know.

'''Ambassador:''' But as individuals we'd be very happy to . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, even if we approach higher authorities . . . our men in New Delhi saw Indira Gandhi.

'''Ambassador:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. She said that, "This is the position, that we are secular. We cannot support." Of course, we want simply Kṛṣṇa's support. And we are increasing. We are not decreasing. The movement was started in 1966.

'''Ambassador:''' Oh, only?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Ambassador:''' That's tremendous.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Now it is all over.

'''Ambassador:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' All over the world. From this Sweden to Australia, New Zealand, North and South. And all round the world.

'''Ambassador:''' What about Germany also?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. He's in charge of this zone.

'''Ambassador:''' The Germans are very . . .

'''Haṁsadūta:''' Yes, we have a temple in Berlin and Munchen, and Hamburg and Heidelberg.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, we are not discouraged. We are not discouraged. But sometimes we are sorry that such a nice movement . . .

'''Ambassador:''' Is not true . . . we supported. I mean, I . . . we have this dilemma. I'm being very honest with you. First, we have got the dilemma of choosing the right thing, you know, because so many people claim to speak about reviving Hinduism.

'''Prabhupāda:''' But, as, as you find out . . . just like you issue license to medical practitioner, registered medical. Why don't you see that which movement is genuine? That is the duty of the government. But the government is also, they're unaware about which one is actually . . .

(devotees bring in ''prasāda'')

'''Ambassador:''' Oh, I'm . . . I'm very grateful to you, but this is, it is a meal.

'''Devotee:''' ''Jaya''. It is our pleasure.

'''Prabhupāda:''' You can keep here.

'''Ambassador:''' I'll take the real ''prasāda''. I'll be happy.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, you can take. It is all real ''prasāda''.

'''Ambassador:''' But, you know this, to us is, we call in Kerala, this is called ''tryamṛta''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' What is that?

'''Ambassador:''' ''Tryamṛta'' is sugar and honey and . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh.

'''Ambassador:''' . . . sugar and grapes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Pañcāmṛta'', we have got.

'''Ambassador:''' Hmm . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Tryamṛta''.

'''Ambassador:''' Yes. All this is prepared by these young men? (eating)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, yes. One thing I can request you, that you give us, some of . . . some of our men, going to India, missionary visa.

'''Ambassador:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So that they can stay there. Because we have now four, five temples, and I require their assistance to maintain.

'''Ambassador:''' In India.

'''Prabhupāda:''' In India. So if you kindly give some of our men the missionary visa, it will be very kind of you. It is missionary.

'''Ambassador:''' I'll immediately write and find out, because it is a very logical thing.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Ambassador:''' Because we give them to other religions.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Why not this? So if you kindly help in this way. That is within your power.

'''Ambassador:''' I'll simply write it. Of course.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. No, there is no use of writing. You can do it. (Ambassador laughs) We can immediately submit some of the names, and you can give us.

'''Ambassador:''' Of course, from Sweden, I mean, it depends upon the nationality. People can go for three months without any visa.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, that is different thing. But missionary visa. From missionary . . . when there's missionary, there is no question of any particular country. Because we have got men from different countries. Our men, ISKCON representative, they should be given missionary visa when they want to go. That is my . . . that much help I want.

'''Ambassador:''' Who is the representative in India of this . . .? In Delhi, of your organization? In Delhi?

'''Prabhupāda:''' In Delhi?

'''Ambassador:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, there is. Tejiyas.

'''Devotee:''' Tejiyas dāsa.

'''Ambassador:''' He should meet someone fairly senior in the Home Ministry.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Ambassador:''' I can write to him, and he can also meet. I think . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' So you can, you can give some introductory . . .

'''Ambassador:''' Yes, I will give the names, too.

(aside to devotees) You come to the Embassy.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, visa, of course, it is to be given from here. So why you should refer to Delhi? You can use your discrimination.

'''Ambassador:''' I don't think so Your Grace. I'll see. I doubt very much. If I can exercise, I am prepared to exercise it. I know that there will be many . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' So . . . no, no. Visa, visa is issued from the country . . .

'''Ambassador:''' Yeah, from the embassy, but we have got some . . . some people we can straight away issue. In some cases they would refer to India. But if we make a positive recommendation, they will agree.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So that I do not know. But visa is given by the embassy, from the local place.

'''Devotee:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda, would you like ''prasādam''?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Later on.

'''Ambassador:''' Much too early.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So they have done nice?

'''Ambassador:''' They have done so well, you know. I feel . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' So you kindly eat all of them.

'''Ambassador:''' I feel . . . (indistinct) . . . but I can't eat them all.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no. It is only two.

'''Ambassador:''' I'll eat with two ''parāṭās''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah, two ''parāṭās''.

'''Ambassador:''' Because you have done it so well.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Prasādaṁ prāpti-mātreṇa bhoktavyam.'' That is the Vedic injunction. Even it is brought from distant place, even it is dried up, even it is touched by the untouchable, still it should be taken immediately.

'''Ambassador:''' Yes, that's true. That's true.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Prasādaṁ prāpti-mātreṇa bhoktavyam.''

'''Ambassador:''' Remember how Kṛṣṇa received Sudāmā?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Ambassador:''' When he brought the . . .?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Ambassador:''' Have you been to Kerala, Your Grace?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, I was in Cochin. While coming to New York, I came on ship. So my ship stopped in Cochin. Yes.

'''Ambassador:''' I see. We have got some wonderful Kṛṣṇa temples, Viṣṇu temples.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Cochin?

'''Ambassador:''' In Cochin? Not in Cochin town. There is, but not very famous. But the one about ten miles from Cochin, where I come from, is one of the greatest temples, called Poornathrayesa. This is a very good . . . the Cochin royal family used to stay.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. Oh, you come from there?

'''Ambassador:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Swami Chinmayananda also comes from there?

'''Ambassador:''' Yes. Swami Chinmayananda comes from Ernakulam.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ernakulam, yes.

'''Ambassador:''' I come from about five miles from. I actually used to know him when, before he became . . . when he was a journalist.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Ambassador:''' I used to know him when he was a journalist.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, he was a journalist?

'''Ambassador:''' Yes, before. In Dacra.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh.

'''Ambassador:''' But is there any special, specific person who wants to go to India immediately?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Ambassador:''' Who would like to have visa?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, we can give you the name if . . .

'''Ambassador:''' I see. Please give me the name and the nationality. I can immediately see about or write.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. So you can submit immediately some of the names. Because we are organizing there, and the security department there: "Oh, your visa is now complete. You please return."

'''Ambassador:''' I know.

'''Prabhupāda:''' But who . . . we have got now temples. Who will manage that? Big, big temples I have constructed, in Navadvīpa, in Hyderabad.

'''Ambassador:''' Navadvīpa . . . of course, Navadvīpa is . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' In Vṛndāvana.

'''Ambassador:''' . . . Caitanya's . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, in Vṛndāvana. We have got very, very big, big temples now. So those temples . . . the Indians are callous. They are after technology. They are not coming. So how I'll manage? How I'll manage them if they are driven away? That is my problem. But the Indian boys, they are not coming. Indian-educated . . . they are coming, but not very educated.

'''Ambassador:''' That's . . . I, I understand what you mean.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. The educated Indian boys, they'll accept good service. Why they come to temple?

'''Ambassador:''' I'm sorry. You are right.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is education. They are not prepared to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They want some good service and enjoy life. That's all.

'''Ambassador:''' It is your ''Gita'' . . . (indistinct) . . . place it . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no. You can place there. What you want just now?

'''Ambassador:''' I just wanted to place it here, and then washroom.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, you can wash inside.

'''Paramahaṁsa:''' There's a bathroom right here. (break)

'''Ambassador:''' I'm sorry. I came immediately after lunch you know. It's really only one hour between the lunch, and one hour . . . so I'll remember this, Your Grace, and of course, I will do personally what I can. I've . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, that . . .

'''Ambassador:''' . . . distributed the invitations to all the Indians, you see. But I'm afraid the Indians in Sweden are extremely . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Ambassador:''' How shall I put it? Extremely material and . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, everywhere. Everywhere.

'''Ambassador:''' So I do not expect much response. I'm being very honest with you, you know.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, everywhere. In India also. Indians are everywhere.

'''Ambassador:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' But they think . . . familiarity breeds contempt. "Oh, Kṛṣṇa we know. What you have got to teach us?" Although he doesn't know anything, (laughs) because he, he belongs to the country where Kṛṣṇa appeared, therefore he knows everything. That . . . you know that Hindi. Gaon ka yogi, bhikh na mile. (The ''yogi'' who does not get charity in his own town.)

'''Ambassador:''' Poetic. "The prophet is not honored in his own country."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Gaon ka yogi, bhikh na mile. (The ''yogi'' who does not get charity in his own town.) (laughs) That is this position. So do you think I shall submit some name?

'''Ambassador:''' Certainly, Your Grace, and I will look into it, and if I have got right, I will do it, or I will send . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No. You are . . . why you have not right? Because . . .

'''Ambassador:''' Yes, I've got . . . there are discretions.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then, then it will be useless. Because as soon as you send to Delhi, they'll refuse. So then don't try for it. If you, if you can help personally, then we'll submit the names. Otherwise, if you go in official channel, I don't expect.

'''Ambassador:''' No, I'll look at the rules you see and . . . I can't break the rules.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So you see the rules. If you can . . .

'''Ambassador:''' I can't break the rules.

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . then I'll submit.

'''Ambassador:''' Quite right.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then when I shall send some of my men to know that you can? When I shall send?

'''Ambassador:''' By tomorrow afternoon.

'''Prabhupāda:''' All right. That's all right. Then I shall . . . otherwise, useless. If you officially forward, and they reply, it will be . . . no.

'''Ambassador:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' I do not know why. The Christian missionaries, they get missionary visa.

'''Ambassador:''' But I would . . . if you permit me, I am still, if I find a rule, rights, I'll do it. Otherwise, I'll be very happy to write a very strong letter to the Deputy Secretary concerned, and also . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Anyway, in whatever way you can help. This is a difficulty for me, that there are chasing after our men.

'''Ambassador:''' I personally think that there is not much reason to . . . because we are allowing . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' There is no reason at all.

'''Ambassador:''' And this is the . . . hypocritical.

'''Prabhupāda:''' If, if they're giving missionary visa to the Christian missionaries, what we have done? So kindly be seriously thinking and, if possible, give us. So he'll go in the afternoon and see him. If he's able, then we can send some men. And many men, they're prepared to go to India. But this botheration . . . they'll go, after spending so much money, and they'll be chased. That has become a problem. Otherwise, I have told some years ago that, "Sometimes you'll have to import ''brahmin'' from this place."

'''Ambassador:''' Looks like they are better ''brahmin'' sir.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Ambassador:''' I agree with you.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Thank you.

'''Ambassador:''' Because there is a . . . the definition of ''brahmin'', of course, is made by Buddha's, said (Sanskrit)

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, in ''Bhagavad-gītā'' it is said, ''cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa''-''karma''-''vibhāgaśaḥ'' ([[BG 4.13 (1972)|BG 4.13]]). And ''Bhāgavata'' says:

:''yasya hi yal lakṣaṇaṁ''
:''puṁso varṇābhivyañjakam''
:''yad anyatrāpi dṛśyeta''
:''tat tenaiva vinirdiśet''
:([[SB 7.11.35|SB 7.11.35]])

These are clear indications that ''brāhmaṇa'' is not from particular family. And Kṛṣṇa says, another place:

:''māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya''
:''ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ''
:''striyo śūdrā tathā vaiśyās''
:''te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatiṁ''
:([[BG 9.32 (1972)|BG 9.32]])

Everyone. Kṛṣṇa is open for everyone. Kṛṣṇa does not say that only . . . He says that ''kiṁ punar brāhmaṇāḥ puṇyāḥ.'' Everyone is accepted. Why not the ''brahmins''? But ''te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim''. Those who are not even born in ''brahmin'' family . . . Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says, ''kibā śūdra kiba vipra'' . . .

'''Ambassador:''' Oh. ''Kibā śūdra kibā vipra'' . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Kibā śūdra kibā vipra nyāsī kene naya, yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā, tattva-vettā, sei guru haya'' ([[CC Madhya 8.128|CC Madhya 8.128]]). He becomes spiritual master. It doesn't matter what he is. ''Śūdra'', or ''vipra'' it does not matter. The Rāmānanda Rāya, he was a ''śūdra''. According to social position, he was a ''śūdra''. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu took lessons from him.

'''Ambassador:''' Oh, I see.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. That is in the Eighth Chapter of the ''Madhya Khaṇḍa''.

'''Ambassador:''' So I'll remember it, sir.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Thank you, sir.

'''Ambassador:''' And if I'm able to come for some meetings, I'll come. If I do not, that means only I am busy, you know. Because it's a little busy. But I think some of the members of our embassy will come.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, you . . .

'''Ambassador:''' No, I mean to the functions.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Functions?

'''Ambassador:''' We'll try to come whichever is we are able to come, you know, from the embassy . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' That, of course, you are . . .

'''Ambassador:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Thank you very much.

'''Ambassador:''' Thank you very much.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Jaya''. So give him . . . (break) (end)

771107 - Conversation A - Vrndavana

2024-02-07T04:58:42Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"

[[Category:1977 - Conversations]]
[[Category:1977 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1977 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1977-11 - Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Conversations - India]]
[[Category:Conversations - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Hindi Snippets]]
[[Category:Audio Files 30.01 to 45.00 Minutes]]
[[Category:1977 - New Audio - Released in July 2012]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Conversations - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Conversations - by Date|Conversations by Date]], [[:Category:1977 - Conversations|1977]]'''</div>
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<div class="code">771107R1-VRNDAVAN - November 07, 1977 - 35:59 Minutes</div>

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1977/771107R1-VRNDAVAN.mp3</mp3player>

'''Kavirāja:''' khane ki ruchi nahi hai? swamiji lene ki ruchi nahi hai? (You don’t have the taste for food? Swamiji you don’t feel like taking anything?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Dekhiye na peshab. (Just check the urine.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Haan, abhi dekhe na peshab. Heart me koi weakness to nahi hai. Ab inko thoda-thoda abhi ye baat aaj se kal, kal se parson taakat mehsoos zaroor hona chahiye. Thoda aankh kholiye maharaj idhar thoda sa, ek minute bas thoda sa. Koi thakleef to nahi hui, seedha kar loon. (Yes, now I just checked, there is no weakness in the heart. Now slowly this is the matter, you will feel strength from the day after tomorrow. Just open your eyes Mahārāja, just one minute, did you feel any discomfort? Shall I make the bed straight?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ye haddi hai na, ek side me zyada der nahi rahega. (This bone does not stay on one side for a long time.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Haan, takleef ho jati hai. Maans nahi hai na. Aur kabhi chot lagi thi kya, dhyan hai. (Yes, it becomes a problem, because there is no fat, did you ever injure yourself, do you remember?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Filhal yad nahi. (As of now I don’t remember.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Aankh ka sujan bhi aadha sujan hai. Par ye weakness jo mehsoos kar rahe hain iske liye . . . karna padega. Nahi to kamzori weakness nahi hai. Pulse ki gati bhi theek hi hai. (The swelling in the eyes is almost half reduced but this weakness that you are experiencing for this . . . we have to do it. Otherwise you don’t have weakness, the pulse is also good.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' He says that the swelling is much less than before, and there is no weakness in the heart also. He says that . . .

'''Kavirāja:''' . . . jo mehsoos karte hain na isko rokna hai aavashya. Lekin ruchi jo khane ki, maharaj aaj mattha le lenge? Jahan horlicks ki jagah inko, nahi chalega. (. . . what you are experiencing must be stopped now. But the taste for food, Mahārāja will you have buttermilk?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Kuch iccha hi nahi hai. Wo aapka jo fruit juice. (I don’t have any desire to eat anything. The fruit juice you wanted.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Horlicks, accha haan, uski bhi iccha nahi hai? (Okay Horlicks yes, you don’t want to have that also?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Uski bhi iccha hi nahi hai. (Don't want to have that also.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Mane koi cheez andar se ruchi nahi hai bilkul hi. (Means you don’t have any taste from inside.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Bilkul nahi. bina khaye . . . (Not at all. But without eati . . .)

'''Kaviraja:''' Nahi to bagair khaye kaise rahenge. Khana jaroor chahiye, ruchi honi chahiye. accha neend to theek aati hai. Sote hain. (Otherswise how will you survive without eating anything. You should definitely eat, you should develop taste. Okay, do you get proper sleep, do you sleep?)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Everything is going nicely except that the strength is going away.

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Right, yes. Waise to sabhi accha hai bulki taakat bilkul nahi hai. (Otherwise everything is alright, but no strength at all.)

'''Kaviraja:''' takat nahi ruchi, ye khane ka jo hai. (Not strength but taste, this taste for eating.)

'''Bhakti-caru''': Waise ruchi to unko 6-7 mahine se nahi hai. Accha ruchi to unko . . . (As such he has not had taste to eat since 6-7 months. Okay his taste . . .)

'''Kavirāja:''' Accha ye ann kitne roj se nahi khate hain. (Okay. Since how many days has he not had rice.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' When did Śrīla Prabhupāda take foodstuff last?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Foodstuff? ''Cāpāṭi?'' Rice? About four months ago.

'''Bhakti-caru''': Waise to beech me maine ek dafa diya hai. (As such I had given him once in between.)

'''Kavirāja:''' Ek roz do roz dene se nahin. (It is of no use to give to him just one or two days.)

'''Bhakti-caru''': Nahi waise hafta dus roj pehle bhi diya tha, wo to koi . . . (No, actually we gave just a week-10 days back, that is not . . .)

'''Kaviraja:''' Jab mai tha us roz shayad khichdi bhi di thi. Waise to barabar roz aadmi ann khata hai. (When I was there I think you gave khichdi also that day. Otherwise everyday man eats rice.)

'''Bhakti-caru''': Wo to kareeb 4-5 mahine hua. (It's almost been 4-5 months.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Accha doodh pehle kitna chalta tha inka? (Okay, how much milk was he drinking earlier?)

'''Bhakti-caru''': Char-paanch mahine pehle 4 dafa doodh de raha tha, gaye ka 600gm. (4-5 months back I used to give milk 4 times, cow’s milk, 600gm)

'''Kaviraja:''' Accha abhi jo apni diet jati hai, ye pehli jitni hai, kuch kam hai, kuch zyada hai? (Okay, now the diet type we have, is it the same as earlier, reduced or increased somewhat?)

'''Bhakti-caru''': Aap aane ke phele to kum tha. Ye diet to thoda badha hai. (Before you came it was less. Now the diet has increased a bit.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Ruchi nahi hai. baki ye kuch de diya humne manlo jaise, ras de diya jata hai, barley de diya. Pehle barley bhi nahi dete the, lete the barley? Accha thoda jeeb dekhe. (There is no taste. Rest, just that I have given something, like juice is given, barley is given, initially even barley was not given. Was he taking barley?)

'''Bhakti-caru''': Accha aap to aaye 29 ko. 28 tarik ko tha 435 khane ka, 27 ko thoda zyada tha 915, 26 ko tha, ekadashi ka vrat, 29 ko tha 550, 30 ko tha 635, zyada hone laga. 31 ko 805, 1st ko 865, 2 tarik ko 1005, 3 tarik ko 1150, 1125, 840, 805. Kal 805. (Okay, you came on the 29th. On the 28th food intake was 435gm, on 27th it was a little more 915gm, on 26th it was fasting for Ekadashi, on 29th it was 550gm, on 30 it was 635gm, then it increased. On 31st it was 805, on 1st 865, on 2nd it was 1005, on 3rd it was 1150, 1125, 840, 805. Yesterday it was 805.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Acch doodh nahi diya tha bilkul bhi? (Okay you did not give milk at all?)

'''Bhakti-caru''': Nahi-nahi dawai bhi waise barabar lete hain. Lete matlab bahut takleef se lete hain. kal jo diya tha, kal to sabhi diya tha. Wo 2 number ka shaam ko dena ko nahi saka, raat ko gaya aur 1 number ka 2 baar diya tha. (No no, he takes the medicine regularly also. He takes, means he takes with great difficulty. Yesterday the one I gave, yesterday I gave all the medicine. I could not give the No.2 medicine in the evening as I came back at night. And the number 1 I gave twice.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Accha wo jo humne diya tha ''parikrama'' ke pehle heart wala wo diya tha? (Okay, the one I gave for the heart before the ''parikrama'', you gave that?)

'''Bhakti-caru''': Wo nahi dete hain abhi. aap to bole the parikrama ke pehle lene ko. to wo to ek roz jaane ko tayyari kar rahe the pehle roz to us roz diya tha. Balki wo to gaye nahi. Uske baad to ''parikrama'' ke nliye nikale nahi isliye wo dawai nahi diye, wo jo dupahar ko anar ke ras ke saat dete hain. Aur doosra jo dawai tha jo aap . . . ke liye diye the wo to dene ka jaroorat nahi tha. Aur khasi ka dawai bhi dene ka darkar nahi hua. (That we are not giving now. You had told to take before the ''parikrama''. So one day he was getting ready to go to the parikrama, and I gave it to him that day but he did not go. After that he did not go for the parikrama, so that medicine we did not give him. The one we gave along with the pomegranate juice in the afternoon and the other medicine which you had given for . . . there was no need to give that and the cough medicine also need not have been given.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' What is the news of Māyāpur?

'''Jayapatākā:''' Actually, everything is going very nicely now. Everyone was . . . when the news came that you were coming, it spread just like electricity. All of a sudden, all ''gurukula'' boys, all devotees, they started to cry out, "''Haribol! Haribol!''" jumping up and down. Just within a few moments everyone was immediately jumping. Now the book distributors, they've been very eager to fulfill your order to do hundred thousand books. So already last month they did almost forty thousand. Last week they did twelve thousand books. One party in Assam, they were selling Bengali, mostly Bengali books. They did seven thousand books in one week.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Which one?

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' Which book?

'''Jayapatākā:''' ''Gītār Gān'' and ''Bhagavāner Kathā'' and . . .

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Seven thousand. That's pretty good, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in one week, just for one party. And they have four parties.

'''Jayapatākā:''' Well, now there's two. But . . . so we are organizing now so that we'll be able to even distribute thirty, forty thousand big books in a month.

'''Prabhupāda:''' English?

'''Jayapatākā:''' Well, this ''Vairāgya Vidyā'', that will be printed in two weeks, so then we will distribute that. In English there's good scope also, because in my zone, Arunachal Pradesh and Meghalaya, they are English-predominated state because the Christian missionary have converted everyone. But they found great reception there, although the Christians are . . . even the Christians are buying. There seems to be a lot of land for sale right now. About 60 to 80 bighās of land is for sale, and the people are asking the market rate. So it's . . . even if the government . . . we don't have to depend on acquisition. We can just go and buy.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Can you . . . if you are able to . . . (indistinct) . . . subscribe within our jurisdiction so much land. Otherwise they will sub-note it, why you have purchased agricultural land?

'''Jayapatākā:''' We will purchase in the . . . we'll get a permit from the government to hold more land. And until that time, then we'll purchase in the name of Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, Svarūpa Dāmodara.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda? We can also purchase in the name of Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust.

'''Jayapatākā:''' A trust can hold fifty ''bighās'' of irrigated land, seventy ''bighās'' unirrigated. And once we turn that . . . if we turn that to nonagricultural land, then there's no limit. By paying twice the land tax we can convert to nonagricultural for the purpose of building our temple or building anything, and then it's no longer subject to any ceiling. We will see with lawyer very carefully that . . .

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' So you can purchase in Svarūpa Dāmodara's name.

'''Jayapatākā:''' Yes.

'''Bhavānanda:''' This land is for sale from whom? The Muhammadans?

'''Jayapatākā:''' Yes, both Muhammadan and Hindu.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Should we buy this land, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Why not? You have got money?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes. There is enough money.

'''Jayapatākā:''' We do not want to rest until every home in Bengal has a copy of ''Gītār Gān'' and ''Bhāgavatam.''
'
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' ''Gītār Gān'' is nice. It's attractive.

'''Jayapatākā:''' About ten new devotees are there now. Every week two or three new devotees are coming. Four of them are college graduate. They're helping answering letters and transcribing. Subhaga has five books that he had written in England. So we got those, and now they're being copied for printing.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' What kind of books?

'''Jayapatākā:''' Small books. ''Beyond Birth and Death, Easy Journey''.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Subhaga is doing nicely?

'''Jayapatākā:''' Yes. Same as usual.

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' Is there Bengali boys, Mahārāja?

'''Jayapatākā:''' Yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' So how many devotee . . . members are there now, devotees in Māyāpur.

'''Jayapatākā:''' I don't know. I didn't take the exact count. Two hundred.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Two hundred. Big ''āśrama'', Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' I'm thinking of bringing some Manipuri boys to Māyāpur next time I go.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Do it.

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' Bring some boys from Manipur.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Manipur boys are very good workers. We saw them in Bombay. Remember, Śrīla Prabhupāda? I brought three of them to meet you. They all looked like Svarūpa Dāmodara juniors. Very humble, intelligent, hard-working.

'''Jayapatākā:''' That Manipur Mandir in Navadvīpa, when I was gone they had sent an invitation for attending one function. They're very favorable. When the party went to Assam, then they got invitation to go to Tripura, which is next to Manipur. It's eighty percent Bengali-speaking, and also many Vaiṣṇavas. So we expect to distribute many books there. Next month party will be going to Tripura.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Book distribution has hit India, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Jayapatākā:''' And, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I was thinking that it's very important we want to complete this temple during your stay here on this planet. Then your life's mission will be . . . there won't be anything that's left uncomplete if we could just complete the temple. The present . . . just meditating that what are the obstacle . . . actually, we have already enough land for the temple itself, but the temple design . . . when you first came to Māyāpur, then the temple was going to be 225 feet. Then we asked Saurabha to make a design, and then he made 300 feet. At that time the estimate was fifteen million. Then again he was designing, designing, and it went to 350 feet. Then it went to thirty million. Then it went to 400 feet, fifty-five million. Now it's up to seventy million.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Dollars?

'''Jayapatākā:''' Dollars. Every time he thinks about it, he adds fifty feet, and it goes up twenty million. So now all the distributors in the world, they were very eager to see the temple built, but at the present time it requires so much money at seventy million dollars and 450 feet that no one can think of even starting it for five years. But if the temple was 300 or 350 feet and twenty-five or thirty million dollars, which I don't think anyone—it would be the biggest building even in India and the biggest temple in the world—then it could be started immediately, feasibly. Four temples in America said that if they just get five women each—that means twenty women from the Society—then they could each pledge 25,000 rupees a month for . . . in collection. That means $100,000, $125,000. Plus BBT's $100,000 a month and Gurukṛpā, that would be enough to immediately, even in the coming year, to start the construction of the temple, simply if Saurabha was asked to just make the temple on a thirty million dollar budget, which would be 350 feet or 300 feet. And this is really inspiring the book distributors to have this temple begun, and to complete it within your lifetime, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' My lifetime . . . (laughs) It is now very brief. At any moment I can . . .

'''Jayapatākā:''' We're all praying that Kṛṣṇa will give your strength back. (break) . . . neophyte devotees. Without your inspiration, association, it'll be very difficult.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That Muhammadan, what is his name?

'''Jayapatākā:''' Which one?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Back side our . . .

'''Jayapatākā:''' Badusheik.

'''Prabhupāda:''' He is selling the land also?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Is he selling?

'''Jayapatākā:''' Right now he's still asking four thousand rupees, but he seems to be weakening. But he hasn't come down yet in his price. He's not coming around so much. They're all a bit . . . because now they have to go regularly to the jail.

'''Bhavānanda:''' How often?

'''Jayapatākā:''' They were going once a day. Now it's once a week. So it's a big trouble for them.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Including him?

'''Jayapatākā:''' Yes, he's one of them. He has to go.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' He's one of the men who was . . .

'''Jayapatākā:''' Oh, yes.

'''Bhavānanda:''' He's one of the main instigators.

'''Śatadhanya:''' They lose a days work, right?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' You should tell him that if he sells at two thousand rupees a ''bighā'' that we will not be so severe with him.

'''Jayapatākā:''' To say stuff like that is very dangerous. They use that, how to say that, in court.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Kṛṣṇa worked with this man. He was harassing us, and now he is harassed.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Up to three thousand you can take. ''Four bighās.''

'''Jayapatākā:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And make a ''dighi.''

'''Jayapatākā:''' Yes. That Praphulla Brahmacari or Prabhupada Das or whatever he's called, next door, he has built a small temple now. The dome has come up. It's about 45 feet high.

'''Prabhupāda:''' On top?

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' Temple with a dome.

'''Jayapatākā:''' Very narrow one.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Is he friendly or something?

'''Jayapatākā:''' He's very friendly. He came by and he said that . . . he recommended about two months ago that for a while we shouldn't say anything to the Muhammadan and try to get . . . then he will bring the price down. Then mutually we can decide that who will take the land.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' He wants the land?

'''Jayapatākā:''' He doesn't know if he has the money to buy the land, but he has got some interest to get the land.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Why?

'''Jayapatākā:''' Because he only has one ''bighā'' right now, and that land is just next to his.

'''Bhavānanda:''' Planting?

'''Jayapatākā:''' Now planting is going on. Already many flowers and vegetables have been planted, and now the wheat fields are being plowed for planting. (break) . . . if the big temple was thirty or thirty-five stories high, there would be any harm?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No harm. It is too much.

'''Jayādvaita:''' "It is too much."

'''Jayapatākā:''' The present design is too much. Yes, that present design means that every month, six hundred thousand dollars would have to be given, and that's just too much.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Too much strain is not good.

'''Svarūpa Dāmodara:''' Also, the tendency is that when you make an estimate, you're always higher. If you say thirty million dollars, it's very likely that it will go more.

'''Jayapatākā:''' Yeah, so then consider. (break) . . . his birthday was a couple days ago, and then he invited us. So I sent two ''brahmacārīs'' to his ''āśrama'' for his birthday celebration.

'''Prabhupāda:''' His temple is completed?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' His ''nātha-mandira?''

'''Jayapatākā:''' I didn't ask, actually. I think he's a year older than Śrīla Prabhupāda? Or two years older.

'''Prabhupāda:''' At least one year. I want to develop Gauḍa-maṇḍala. So in ''yoga-pīṭha'' they could not build even a ''darśana-maṇḍapa'' in fifty, sixty years. So we can construct a, what is called, hall.

'''Jayapatākā:''' ''Without mandira.''

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. Yes.

'''Jayapatākā:''' ''Kīrtana hall.''

'''Bhavānanda:''' No. Bhaktivedanta . . . Yoga Pīṭha Bhaktivedanta Hall. Bhaktivedanta Swami Hall.

'''Prabhupāda:''' What do you think?

'''Bhavānanda:''' With book stall. Prabhupāda has formed a trust, the Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust, and its purpose is to develop Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi. Prabhupāda's one idea is to build this ''darśana-maṇḍapa'' at the ''yoga-pīṭha''. And another is to finish Śrīdhara Mahārāja's ''darśana-maṇḍapa'' at his . . . like that, to develop the different . . . to encourage cooperation between the different Godbrothers in the temples. The members of the Trust are . . . (indistinct) . . . and Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja and Girirāja, Svarūpa Dāmodara, myself, Mādhava Mahārāja and Madhusūdana Mahārāja. Prabhupāda named those members.

'''Prabhupāda:''' How do you think the idea?

'''Jayapatākā:''' All of your ideas, Śrīla Prabhupāda, are perfect. I am not someone to offer opinion. But if you ask, I think that actually, especially the ''yoga-pīṭha, nātha-mandira'', that's a very dynamic idea, and in general it must do good.

'''Prabhupāda:''' We want cooperation.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' No more noncooperation.

'''Jayapatākā:''' Generally the . . . even Devānanda Gauḍīya Maṭha, they had invited us for the disappearance day of Keśava Mahārāja, but I wasn't present at the time. So generally now they're inviting us, and everyone seems to have the desire for more and more cooperation. Mādhava Mahārāja had talked with one, this leader of the Jana Sangha, now the Janata party constituent, who's Professor Bharati, Haripada Bharati. He's a big orator in the Bidan Sabha. So he's very pro-ISKCON and pro-Hindu. So he's coming out to Māyāpur the 20th and putting on a public meeting. It's being organized by the local Hindus. And in that time he'll be also visiting our temple. So he was told by Mādhava Mahārāja, who happened to meet him somewhere, that he should give us full support also. He mentioned that. And he's going to give a lecture, and in the lecture he's going to tell the Muslims that they should never do anything like this to another Hindu or Kṛṣṇa temple again, otherwise their situation will be very . . . he said they'll be driven out. (break) Dāmodara Mahārāja, he comes around once in a while. I haven't seem him the last couple of weeks, but he's also helping in his way. Yesterday, from the Central Government, one I.B. officer, Inspection Bank officer, came. He said that he received telegraphic information that regarding my citizenship, the government was having second thoughts, that maybe they would give it after all, and they requested him to find out my background information and give a recommendation.

'''Bhavānanda:''' In regard to the three-year visas, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa has secured that.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Actually, he did not secure it, because it's been given to all religious groups in India. Girirāja informed me. It's being given to all religious groups in India, that they can get three years. The government has passed it. It wasn't specially for us.

'''Jayapatākā:''' Hindu, Muslim?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Anyone. Any of these groups that have foreign people in it now will be allowed to stay. It's a general decision of the government. It wasn't . . .

'''Jayapatākā:''' Not of ISKCON.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' No. Śrīla Prabhupāda, would you like to take rest now?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Okay. They must be tired. They traveled all night long. The ''kavirāja'' didn't sleep at all, I heard. Is that true, Jayapatākā?

'''Jayapatākā:''' Yes. The flight was three hours delayed. Three hours he was sitting, and he didn't leave Calcutta . . . the 8:00 flight left at 10:30, 11:00, and arrived in Delhi 1:00. Then it took to 5:00 to get here, so he's quite tired.

'''Prabhupāda:''' It did not start on time.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' No, three hours delayed.

'''Jayapatākā:''' The flight was late.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' So everyone can take rest now.

'''Jayapatākā:''' Just seeing Your Divine Grace gives us so much strength.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' If you can just request Kṛṣṇa to allow you to stay, Śrīla Prabhupāda . . . everyone wants you to stay. (end)

770529 - Conversation A - Vrndavana

2024-02-07T04:58:38Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"

[[Category:1977 - Conversations]]
[[Category:1977 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1977 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1977-05 - Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Conversations - India]]
[[Category:Conversations - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Bengali Snippets]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Hindi Snippets]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with both Bengali and Hindi Snippets]]
[[Category:Audio Files 30.01 to 45.00 Minutes]]
[[Category:1977 - New Audio - Released in July 2012]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Conversations - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Conversations - by Date|Conversations by Date]], [[:Category:1977 - Conversations|1977]]'''</div>
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<div class="code">770529R1-VRNDAVAN - May 29, 1977 - 44:22 Minutes</div>

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1977/770529R1-VRNDAVAN.mp3</mp3player>

'''Prabhupāda:''' From all parts of the world. That is history. Generally he goes to Ja . . . (pause) (''kīrtana'' in background) (break) . . . Koro ki korbe koro. (Do what you want to do.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Ki Korbo? (What will I do?)

'''Jayapatākā:''' Tumi kichu advice dite paro . . . (You may give some advice . . .)

'''Kaviraja:''' . . . cikitsa somosto hochhe practical, hathe kolom e korte hoi khub soft hand ebong khub anubhuti . . . apnar kono kosto hoi amon kichu korate hoina . . . (Every diagnosis is very practical, to be done with very soft soft hands and requires experience. You will not have to face something which gives problems.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eikhane thako na kichu din tarpor . . . (Stay here for few days then . . .)

'''Kaviraja:''' . . . onek din chere diyechi kintu amar sob mone ache. (I have left these long ago but I still remember everything.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Thik ache. Ja korte paro koro. (Okay. Then do what you can.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Kintu practical hand gulo mane jara korche practical tara ache mane nurse, compounder . . . (indistinct) . . . baro maas chikitsa kore erokom somosto kolkatar prakritik chikitshalay . . . Kolkata te ache onnanno jaigai ache . . . (But practical hand refers to those who are doing practical like the nurse, compounder . . . (indistinct) . . . the Āyurvedic treatment facilities in Calcutta are doing this throughout the year . . . there are many places for this.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . (indistinct Bengali)

'''Kaviraja:''' Massage kora dorkar khub sundor bhabe, heart e, kidney te. Ogulo jodi khub bhalo function kore tahole jei somosto fola royeche segulo aste aste kome giye aste aste sabhabik obosthai asbe. (Very nice massage is required in the heart and kidney. If they work nicely then the swellings present will get reduced and will come back to the original state.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . (indistinct Bengali)

'''Kaviraja:''' Paikhana kirokom hochhe? (How is your latrine?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Khawai nei to paikhana ki kore hobe? (There is no food intake so from where the latrine will come?)

'''Kaviraja:''' Khawa paikhana dutoi bondho. (Food and latrine, both are stopped?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Na. Jai ektu foler ros khai tarpor . . . (No. I go and take a little fruit juice and then . . .)

'''Jayapatākā:''' Uni to foler ros chara r besi kichu khanna. (He doesn't take anything besides fruit juice.)

'''Kaviraja:''' . . . amar advice e sudhu cholche tatei unar bes stool form korche. (He is only under my advice and then also the stool has started to form.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . jerokom korle bhalo hoi koro. (Do whatever you think is good.)

'''Jayapatākā:''' Apni jodi babohar korte paren korun. (If you can then use.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Are se lok ache. (There are people for this.)

'''Jayapatākā:''' Jothestho lok ache. (We have enough people here.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Ekhane ke massage kore? (Who does massage here?)

'''Jayapatākā:''' Babananda Mahārāja.

'''Kaviraja:''' Sokal bela kokhon aste pare? (When will he be able to come?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Jokhon tumi bolbe. (Whenever you say.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Na ora jokhon kore. (When do they do these works?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ora ei dostar somoy. (They do at nearly 10am.)

'''Kaviraja:''' . . . pete ki alternate compress kora hoi kichu? (Is any alternate compression performed previously?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ja korte hoi koro. (Do whatever needs to be done.)

'''Kaviraja:''' . . . se nahoi ami pathiye dobo ekdin . . . oderke ektu bujhiye debe ki korte hoi . . . ektu dekhiye dite pare tobe onek din chara chara kolkata teo er bisesh lok ache. (I will send someone. I will make them understand what to do. They will show everything but after a few days some Āyurvedic doctors will come.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Amader ekjon bisesh daktar asche. (Our doctor is also coming.)

'''Jayapatākā:''' Dr. Ghosh

'''Kaviraja:''' Nature cure. Kono medicine er proyojon nei. Asche tahole to bhalo. (There is no need for medicine. If he is coming then it's good.)

'''Jayapatākā:''' Apni jodi janen tahole bolte paren. (If you know then you can tell.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Se asar age apni jodi sarate paren tahole . . . (If you could cure me before he comes then . . .)

'''Jayapatākā:''' Apni to vaishnav. Apnake . . . (You are a vaisnava.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Achha eshe nahoi ektu dekhiye diye jabe . . . (Okay. Someone will come and show you the . . .)

'''Kaviraja:''' Snan koren? (Do you take bath?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Snan kortam. (I was previously taking a bath.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Ar jol kotota khan? (How much do you drink water?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Kom khai. (Alot less.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Jol er poriman ta ba foler rosh jol er poriborte abong madhu mix kore jol er sathe ba foler rosh er sathe khawa jai tahole egulo tara tari neme jabe. (If you mix honey with water or fruit juice then all the swellings will go down more quickly.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . (indistinct Bengali)

'''Kaviraja:''' Cheeni ekdom khanben na. (Don't take sugar.)

'''Jayapatākā:''' Cheeni r bodol e mishri. (Sugar candy in place of sugar.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Mishri o noi. Oi ekdom madhu. Sei madhu ta ekbare jol ba foler rosh er sathe mishiye. (Not even sugar candy. Only honey. And that too mixed with water or fruit juice.)

'''Jayapatākā:''' Emni madhu ta energy o debe. (The honey will give energy also.)

'''Kaviraja:''' Na . . . ei sath din madhu khawar pore dekhbe je kome gache fola. (No. After seven days of taking honey you will see that the swelling has reduced.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Modhu te sob bhalo bhalo ache. (Honey has everything good.)

'''Jayapatākā:''' . . . (indistinct Bengali)

'''Kaviraja:''' Ghum hoi? (Do you sleep?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Baro maas e ratre ghum hoy na bhor e ghumai. (Throughout the year I can't sleep at night. I sleep at dawn.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . (indistinct Bengali)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Egulo sob kormer fol . . . (These are all the results of ''karma'' . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' What is the rate?

'''Brahmānanda:''' I'm not sure.

Viśāla: He said it was sixty-eight, sixty-nine, when we were there last time.

'''Brahmānanda:''' But then Harjibhai Patel came and . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Harjibhai?

'''Brahmānanda:''' Diamond Press. So his sons are in London, and he wants to start a business there in September, but he didn't want to do so without your blessing. Because you gave blessing for his daughter's marriage, so he's always thinking that if you give blessing, then it will come out nicely. (Prabhupāda laughs) He also wants to put Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Deities in his home. It's just outside of Birmingham, and he wants to invite the Indian community to come to his house for having programs. So he gave me some money to purchase Deities here in Vṛndāvana, but he also wanted your blessings for that.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So who will worship the Deity?

'''Brahmānanda:''' His wife. They have . . . the town where they live, there is no temple.

'''Prabhupāda:''' But they have to observe the rules and regulations.

'''Brahmānanda:''' Yes. I told him that everything must be . . . there must be offerings throughout the day, at least three times a day, and then ''āratis'' performed morning and evening.

'''Prabhupāda:''' He has agreed?

'''Brahmānanda:''' Yes, he will do these things. They will do. With a wife they can do these things, bathing the Deity and so forth.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Some ''kīrtana'', Śrīla Prabhupāda?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. (break)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Gargamuni, Prabhupāda's inquired about Rādhā-Dāmodara. Jayaśacīnandana says he can't work there 'cause there's no electricity.

'''Rāmeśvara:''' No, he said he couldn't work there because it was too hot.

'''Prabhupāda:''' He could not work there?

'''Gargamuni:''' Well, during the day the electricity goes off all over Vṛndāvana.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. So it is not that . . .

'''Gargamuni:''' It is not that he is turning it off.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. Aisī bāta nahī̆ haĭ. (It's not like that.)

'''Indian man (1):''' (indistinct) . . . Bijalī hī nahī̆ haĭ. (There is no electricity.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh . . . (indistinct Hindi)

'''Indian man (1):''' (indistinct) . . . sāḍhe nau baje . . . (Nine past thirty . . .)

'''Prabhupada:''' Imitation civilization finished. Whole Pañjāba me three hours electricity. (In the whole of Punjab there is three hours electricity.)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' So it's not that Gauracand is playing any trick or anything.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' It's not that Gauracand is doing any trick.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, that's right. I can understand.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' I mean, I spoke with Gauracand when I was there, and I have to say he had sincere feelings.

'''Gargamuni:''' And when I lived there, there were many nights and days . . . nights when we had to work with candlelight. So it's a fact. The power does go off.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Anyway, that's all right. I want that he should not play any trick. That's all.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' No, he's not.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then it's all right. No, in the court also there is a trick. There is no name, our.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Within the court?

'''Indian man:''' No name.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' No . . .?

'''Indian man:''' Prabhupāda's name is not there. Within the . . .

'''Gargamuni:''' No, his case is . . .

'''Indian man:''' . . . offendant and defendant, no name of Prabhupāda.

'''Gargamuni:''' No, his case is between Gauracand and Madana Mohana.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, but we have got to do, everything to do. I told you. Tamāla said.

'''Gargamuni:''' The thing is, Prabhupāda, it could affect us. If the court awards the verdict to Madana Mohana, then that means that entrance door is his, and he will lock it, and then we cannot enter.

'''Prabhupāda:''' We'll break it.

'''Gargamuni:''' Oh, yes. I'll break it.

'''Prabhupāda:''' We shall kick it and break it. Then we shall see.

'''Devotees:''' ''Jaya!''

'''Rāmeśvara:''' ''Jaya'' Prabhupāda!

'''Gargamuni:''' Also, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we had talked over with some other GBCs about having some ''pūjā'' work.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Gargamuni:''' Some ''pūjā''. If we had a deity of yourself within the rooms and we . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, first of all go on with the picture. Let us settle that. Then . . .

'''Gargamuni:''' Well, we had talked with the lawyer also, and he said this was a very good idea. He said it was a good idea because if there's a deity there, then they can never take those rooms because it has some sentimental religious value.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So then do it.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' But then a deity would . . . that worship has to be maintained properly.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' That is one thing that Prabhupāda's concerned with.

'''Gargamuni:''' Oh, yes. Yes, that we have to talk about.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then there must be regular ''prasāda''-making and offering . . .

'''Gargamuni:''' Then no court can take away those rooms, because there's worship of a deity.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Kyo, ṭhīka haĭ? (So, is it alright?)

'''Indian man (1):''' Jī hā̆. Bahuta acchā kahā̆ . . . (Yes. Very well said . . .) (indistinct)

'''Indian man (2):''' Nahī. Koī umīda nahī̆ haĭ. (No. There is no chance.)

'''Prabhupada:''' To karālo. (Then get it done.)

'''Indian man (2):''' Mālūma paḍegā āja khālī appearance day thā. (We'll get to know that today was just the appearance day.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Calo so aba saba loga hajīra haĭ. Jo kucha karanā haĭ karo. (Okay, so now everyone is present. Do whatever should be done.)

'''Gargamuni:''' And we can put some stone plaque, that "This place is a holy place."

'''Prabhupāda:''' I think there is already.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' There is one. In the room there's a marble plaque with Your Divine Grace's name.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's all right.

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda, with your permission I would like to try to get that first building in New York in which you were . . . you started Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

'''Prabhupāda:''' (laughs) ''Ācchā''?

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' On Second Avenue.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Twenty-six?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yeah, Prabhupāda said that we could do that.

'''Prabhupāda:''' How you can get it?

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' I'm going to New York in a week, and I can try to either purchase it . . .

'''Ādi-keśava:''' It's open.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' It's still available. We checked.

'''Ādi-keśava:''' The building's available now.

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' Should we not acquire it, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

'''Prabhupāda:''' If you can maintain it, then it is all right. That, you mean to say, that storefront or the whole building?

'''Gargamuni:''' The rear apartment or the storefront?

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' The storefront as well as the building, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' Both storefront and the building.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. I, I know that that building was several times changed hands.

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' Yes. I can find out who it belongs to.

'''Prabhupāda:''' But the difficulty will be how to maintain the tenants. To purchase the house is not difficult.

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' Vacate it? To vacate it.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Vacate? What you will do?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' What you will do with that building?

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' We will have devotees stay, and it's a regular . . . it's a holy place.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Not a . . . if you're going to get that building, then you rent it to people, not to devotees. There's no need for devotees to rent it.

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' Well, the upstairs we can rent to people, and the place where Prabhupāda lived could be a pilgrimage.

'''Prabhupāda:''' As soon as you rent, it become botheration.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' It means you have to collect the rent.

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' No, your apartment can be a place of pilgrimage.

'''Indian man:''' Hara jagaha eka hī kānūna haĭ. (It's the same law everywhere.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hah. As soon as you rent out, then botheration.

'''Ādi-keśava:''' That . . . Śrīla Prabhupāda, that area has become a very, very bad neighborhood.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Very bad.

'''Ādi-keśava:''' Very, very bad. There's nothing but dacoits and drug addicts.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, it was when I was there. (laughter)

'''Gargamuni:''' That's what we were. (laughter)

'''Prabhupāda:''' I did not know. I occupied. Otherwise nobody was taking.

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' We can make a library.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And library means these negroes will go to read? They'll go for drinking.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' In that area no one will come to read.

'''Ādi-keśava:''' Any decent person would be afraid to come there.

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' But . . .

'''Ādi-keśava:''' Only Śrīla Prabhupāda would go there, 'cause he's only a courageous man.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Except for the fact that for our devotees to pilgrimage there . . .

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' Yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Other than that, you won't get outsiders to come in, though.

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' Yes. But it's a great . . . it's an important spot.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is dangerous portion of New York City. Just after my house they were regularly drinking and . . . negroes. I didn't care. Neither they did any harm to me. Bowery Street. And still, I was there.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' We thought about this.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' We had thought about this previously. The difficulty, we felt, was just that no one will . . . to make it . . . unless it was used as a temple now, simply to keep it as some room for a few people to see once every month or two when they pass through New York, that's not living. It should be alive.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' If there's no life in it, then what's the use? That place is not especially a good place for a temple anymore.

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' But fifty years . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, so many houses, they are lying vacant. Nobody goes there.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' But what to do with it? Prabhupāda's saying . . . you're going to have someone just sit there?

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' For ten, twenty years we will keep it, and in future we may . . . it may be a great place of pilgrimage for the whole world.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That future hope (laughs) you cannot invest money in, waste. That's not good.

'''Ātreya Ṛṣi:''' ''Jaya''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Do something positive. (pause) If you have got preacher, then never mind what is the quarter. Have ''kīrtana'' and distribute ''prasādam''.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' We have . . . we can do that.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then you can do anything.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' We have men we can put there. Right, Ādi-keśa?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Simply the drunker negroes, call them, "Take ''prasādam'' and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa."

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' We can put Bhaktijana there, 'cause he's always very fond of preaching. You know, Bhaktijana. He's always wanted to go to Harlem. So . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, then we can deliver them. They are, after all, simple. These negroes, they are, after all, simple. We have to claim them. You have got now experience in Detroit. They are very good-behaving negroes. They come to our temple. Nobody could drive there. Therefore we could acquire that house so cheap.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' This one on 26 Second Avenue must also be very cheap.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Our Ambarīṣa, he was very much eager, "Oh, don't mind. Take it. We shall arrange."

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Cash.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Fifty years ago the cost was six million dollars, and we have purchased, only three hundred thousand.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' And the condition is not deteriorated.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, it is very first class, palatial building. You have seen?

'''Gargamuni:''' No, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I've seen photos.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Deva-sādana, you gave the name.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' You gave the name Deva-sādana.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Very, very nice. Better than our France palace.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' There's fourteen hundred ounces of gold in the ceilings.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Rāmeśvara:''' Even in the bathroom.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Rāmeśvara:''' There's gold on the ceiling.

'''Prabhupāda:''' All very aristocratic, very aristocratic. What is aristocracy, that is displayed there.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Those people, they always used to look from the outside in, but they were never allowed to come in. The people from that neighborhood, they used to stare within, wondering what is inside there. Now, since we have come, we have opened our gates and doors and said: "Please come." Oh, they're very much happy to come in and see everything.

'''Prabhupāda:''' They're grave. They behave very nicely.

'''Rāmeśvara:''' Tourists.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' There's two boat docks underneath for boats to come, underneath the house. They're eighty foot long, two boat docks, to come in their boats right into the house.

'''Prabhupāda:''' The boats were sold by cheating our . . . who was in charge of that?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Er . . . Govardhana dāsa.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, GBC?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Jaga . . .

'''Rāmeśvara:''' Jayatīrtha is now.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Jagadīśa.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Jagadīśa.

'''Devotee:''' (aside) He sold the boats?

'''Prabhupāda:''' He made some profit. Actually the boat belonged to the house. Anyway, palace is palace. Very big, big rooms. Now it would have cost ten million dollars. And we have paid only three percent of ten million. Is it not? Three hundred thousand?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes.

'''Rāmeśvara:''' Govardhana wants to have dolls on the outside grounds.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Do. Yes, very good. You do.

'''Rāmeśvara:''' 'Cause they have so much lands, so right outside the temple there'll be doll exhibits for all the tourists.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yeah, we saw something like that in Hrishikesh. Just recently we went to Hrishikesh, and in one ''āśrama'' they have doll exhibits of all the ''avatāras''. Oh, it was very . . . of all ''kṛṣṇa-līlā''. And each doll exhibit is within a little temple, dome-shaped temple. People go and look, and there's a plaque which describes what it is. Very nice.

'''Rāmeśvara:''' We'll have more than a plaque.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Well, that whole thing costs a thousand dollars, not a quarter of a million.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Doll exhibition you can have in this temple also. People will come to see.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Along the side?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Where is suitable.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Actually, there's room up front where the water, the water fountain carrier, when you enter. There's a lot of open space there.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Now you can go and take rest. Again you can come at one. What is the time now?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Nine-twenty.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's all.

'''Devotees:''' ''Jaya'' Śrīla Prabhupāda! (obeisances)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Make just this garland . . . (break) . . . keep hair. Look very beautiful by keeping hair. What is that explanation?

'''Bhāgavata:''' I was advised that because I was going to the European countries for preaching for some time, that . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' But they, they, they . . .

'''Bhāgavata:''' . . . it would be required to keep these hairs.

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . owned victory with the court by keeping shaven hair.

'''Hari-śauri:''' They won a victory in the court by keeping a shaven head.

'''Bhāgavata:''' I asked their advice, whether I should shave or keep the hair.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Who is that nonsense advice? Who is that rascal? "Advice." By keeping hair you become beautiful and become victimized. "Advice." This is . . . without advice, this mentality is going on outside, to keep hair. We are known as shaven hair, whole society.

'''Hari-śauri:''' I've been shaving mine about every . . . once a month. It's just about three weeks since I've . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Every fortnight.

'''Hari-śauri:''' Every fortnight.

'''Prabhupāda:''' At least. Before going to Europe, six years ago, you were keeping hair again: "I have to go to Europe." That I have seen. Everywhere. Those who . . . you like to keep hair. That hippie mentality is going on. That's right. That is good, very intelligent reasoning, actual, long hair by keeping . . . everyone is giving some advice. Gurudāsa is giving. "He's keeping. He's . . ." Gargamuni. Everyone has some explanation. I do not know how you can give up this hippie mentality. Hippie. ''Lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam'' ([[SB 12.2.6|SB 12.2.6]]). Kali-yuga. Victim of Kali-yuga. It is . . . it is not yet whole, but weak men, victimized by Kali-yuga . . . there are so many things to victimize over the living entities in Kali-yuga, and one of the item is that he will take it that, "I have become very, very beautiful, attractive, by keeping long hair." Keśa. That is already stated there. You are victimized by that Kali-yuga. That's all. No explaining. Our trademark is clean-shaven. We are known as shaven hair. Why you should be victimized? You are known as shaven hair. Are you not? Hmm? They say that "Hare Kṛṣṇa people, shaven hair"?

'''Hari-śauri:''' Shaven-headed.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Shaven hair. So why you should be victimized by keeping hair? What victory you will gain? Conquer over the whole world, Roman Empire, by keeping hair? Hippie mentality, that's all. That is within the core of the heart. As soon as you get some opportunity . . . just like during summer season the field appears to be dried up. And as soon as there is some rain, oh, it is green, immediately green. So things are already there. Hmm? Is it not?

'''Hari-śauri:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Now you see to the field. They're all dry. But as soon as there will be rain in the village, all green. So the seeds are there, hippie seeds. As soon as there is some opportunity, come out, green: "Yes, I am beautiful. Come on." But in the courtroom they never addressed. Judge never asked that, "Why you are shaven-headed?" Was there any question like that?

'''Hari-śauri:''' Actually, when he first went to court, they were wondering why he had hair.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Hari-śauri:''' When Ādi-keśava went to court the first time . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Hari-śauri:''' . . . he had suit and hair, and they wondered why he was dressed like that.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Then cheater.

'''Hari-śauri:''' Yeah, they accused . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' That means, of course, indirectly hinted that, "Now you are cheating. You are known as shaven-headed. Now you have kept hair. What is the purpose except cheating?"

'''Hari-śauri:''' On ''saṅkīrtana'' all the distributors wear wigs and like that to . . . because it's much easier to distribute, to distribute books.

'''Prabhupāda:''' I do not know all this. Formerly, shaven-headed, they used to distribute. Now it is not possible.

'''Hari-śauri:''' It's increased since they did plainclothes distribution.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Encourages?

'''Hari-śauri:''' Yeah. The distribution has increased.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then why don't you dress like European? Half foreign dress and half hair? Who is that foreign and European and gentleman? What is the use of the wig? Keep regular gentleman's hair. There is no need of saffron dress. If by ordinary dress you can sell more book, there is no need of saffron dress. So what is the time now?

'''Gargamuni:''' Nine-thirty.

'''Bhavānanda:''' ''Kīrtana'', Śrīla Prabhupāda?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Bhavānanda:''' ''Kīrtana''?

'''Prabhupāda:''' What is that?

'''Bhavānanda:''' Would you like to have ''kīrtana'' now?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. (''kīrtana'') (break) . . . come directly, ''brāhmaṇas'' sometimes ''brahmacārī'', ''gṛhastha''. That will impress. (break) . . . hodgepodge. Respect is no. Idea is become a leader. He'll do. He'll do. There must be some strong men. ''Tilaka'' always must be there. That is our great standard. ''Kaṇṭhī-mālā''. Every fifteen days you should be cleansed. (break) . . . (indistinct) . . . don't be . . . (indistinct) . . . in all this. Go on very nicely. ''Śrī kṛṣṇa caitanya prabhu nityānanda'', ''śrī advaita gadādhara śrīvāsa'' . . . (break)

'''Gargamuni:''' Well, we only printed two Oriya books. Both were printed in Calcutta so far, because there's one Oriya printer there. Gaura-Govinda Mahārāja is investigating completely the . . . we went around investigating the presses in Cuttack and Bhuvaneśvara, if we might get some cheaper or easier price. It appears that some things we can do cheaper there, like the inside part, but cover cannot do cheaper there.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Cover you can get there, cover.

'''Gargamuni:''' In Bombay we might be able to do cover much cheaper, and then the inside cheaper in Orissa. That we have . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Better quality also.

'''Gargamuni:''' It is a good quality, similar quality. They agreed, they could get same paper as we had in previous books, but that for printing cover that would be very difficult, they acknowledged.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And tell, we can get from Bombay cover.

'''Gargamuni:''' Oh. But I had written you in the report that out of the first twenty thousand we have printed, still 18,500 are remaining.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So not selling?

'''Gargamuni:''' Because we have very few men. So now Gaura-Govinda is taking on bullocks cart. He'll go to the villages, and he'll distribute. Then some portion of what I will collect, I will put in . . . I have separate account for book fund and one for construction. Some portion I'll put in book fund. Then we'll print, and I will bring . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, you gave money. I can give you. There is Book Trust.

'''Gargamuni:''' I just feel . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No.

'''Gargamuni:''' . . . that so many books are there I have not distributed yet. I will print more and . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no. This will come out. Very good idea. Sell.

'''Gargamuni:''' Sell first; then print. I should first sell . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, at least you must have three, four varieties.

'''Gargamuni:''' Right now we have two varieties.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So make it four varieties. That will be first class. Don't print twenty thousand. Print five thousand.

'''Gargamuni:''' I have asked Gaura-Govinda to come. He'll be coming in one or two days.

'''Prabhupāda:''' There is no need of coming. This is . . . you must have at least four, five varieties. And money, if there is scarcity, ask Gopāla. He'll give you money. Then sell and return.

'''Bhavānanda:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda? Śrīla Prabhupāda? It's time for massage?

'''Prabhupāda:''' What is that?

'''Bhavānanda:''' Time for massage. (break)

'''Brahmānanda:''' Sixty-five acres.

'''Prabhupāda:''' He's already Peace Corps?

'''Brahmānanda:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Government will like. (end)

770521 - Conversation - Vrndavana

2024-02-07T04:58:38Z

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770524 - Conversation A - Vrndavana

2024-02-07T04:58:36Z

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750420 - Conversation - Vrndavana

2024-02-07T04:58:33Z

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[[Category:1975 - Conversations]]
[[Category:1975 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1975 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1975-04 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Conversations - India]]
[[Category:Conversations - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Conversations with Public Officials]]
[[Category:Audio Files 30.01 to 45.00 Minutes]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Hindi Snippets]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Conversations - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Conversations - by Date|Conversations by Date]], [[:Category:1975 - Conversations|1975]]'''</div>
{{RandomImage}}


<div class="center">[[Vanipedia:750420 Conversation - Srila Prabhupada Speaks a Nectar Drop in Vrndavana|'''  <big>Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this lecture'''</big>]]</div>


<div class="code">750420R1-VRNDAVAN - April 20, 1975 - 42:13 Minutes</div>

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1975/750420R1-VRNDAVAN.mp3</mp3player>

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . that everyone is doing his own duty. Never mind if you are Christian or if you are a Muslim or a Hindu, that what is your duty, what is said in your scripture, you must be doing it. Not that "Because it is secular, I can do whatever I like."

'''Governor:''' Secular means I respect you, not only I am Hindu or do what I do . . . scripture teaches.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Secular means impartial.

'''Governor:''' But also not coming the way of a Muslim we . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, there is no need. Secular means government's duty is that "You call yourself a Hindu. Whether you are acting as Hindu? You call yourself as Muslim. Whether you are acting as Muslim?" This is government's duty. Government does not say or prefer that "You are Christian. It is not good. You become Hindu." No, that is not government's . . . you remain your Christian, but government's duty is that whether he is acting as Christian. This is government's duty. Not that you are acting like a something else, and you are calling yourself Christian; you are acting like a ''śūdra'', and you are advertising yourself as a ''brāhmaṇa''. So just like a, what is called, quack. If he writes, "Dr. Something," that is punishable. But you are quack. That's all right. You can take a certificate that you have got some experience. The registered medical practitioner, I think that is . . . but what is this, that you are proclaiming yourself as a . . . (chuckles) So character means a class of men there must be, maybe very few, but they are actually men of character. Just like I am teaching them no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. This is basic principle. Otherwise, where is his character? You are doing all nonsense, and still, you are proclaiming yourself as ''brāhmaṇa''. This should be stopped. And a training college should be there how to make a real ''brāhmaṇa''. I have given the example . . .

'''Governor:''' ''Vānaprastha'' college.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Vānaprastha'' college, yes. That is the very essential thing at the present moment, that a class of men . . . just like the same example: If one wants to become an engineer, he must be properly trained up. If he wants to become a medical man, he must be properly trained up. Similarly, if one wants to become a ''brāhmaṇa'', then he must be properly trained up, or even if one does not want, the state should maintain a college where a real ''brāhmaṇa'' is trained up. Just like Sir Ashutosh Mukherjee, when he opened some higher studies of academic qualification, so there was one or two students, and there were three professors drawing at least twelve hundred rupees per month. So twelve hundred rupees per month, that means thirty-six hundred, expenditure, and the . . . Ācchā. (Okay, sit down.) Income is thirty-six rupees. It is not the question of money, but it is the question of culture. So even though at the present moment people are not inclined to become a ''brāhmaṇa'', I tried it. I tried it before starting this movement. I tried to some friends that, "You have got four sons. Give me one son. I shall train him how to become a perfect ''brāhmaṇa''." Nobody agreed. They said: "Swāmījī," Brahman hoke kya karega? sab bhooka mar raha hai. Yehi sab, baki. (What will he do by becoming a ''Brahman''? Everyone is dying of hunger, all of this is nothing.) But if there is not a ideal class of ''brāhmaṇa'', then how you can say that, "You become moralist"? If there is no example of moralist, how you can ask people, "Become moralist"?

'''Governor:''' (indistinct) . . . methods, the thing is a very intensive and completely dedicated course of making an individual a ''brāhmaṇa'', and particularly of the scholar age. Just like you have these boys and girls in that . . . (indistinct) . . . then the second thing is not that intensively, but in a village environment, all people.

'''Prabhupāda:''' All people.

'''Governor:''' No, four children, you said, one of whom could be taken out of many.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, that I asked him. Actually, the idea is in the society, as it is recommended in the ''Bhagavad-gītā'', ''cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ'' ([[BG 4.13 (1972)|BG 4.13]]). The ''guṇas ''are there. Just like naturally one is taking education just to become a politician, one is taking education how to become a high character saintly person. That natural inclination is already there, but that is not being properly harnessed. Therefore a regular educational institution should be there where proper training of ''brāhmaṇa'', proper training of ''kṣatriya'', ''vaiśya'' must be given. These four divisions must remain there. And the . . . so far the brahminical culture, that must be there. Otherwise you cannot say that, "You become moralist." Where is the example of moralist? A section of person must be there, fully moralist. That ideal section is now lacking. Therefore, what I have written, that?

'''Brahmānanda:''' (reading) "As there are different sections of educational institutions, there must be one institution how to train up perfect ''brāhmaṇas'' with ideal characters as above mentioned in the ''Bhagavad-gītā''. If there is a section of people of ideal character, say five percent, the other ninety-five percent, by seeing their example, will follow. In other words, a section of the society must be of ideal character. That is essential."

'''Prabhupāda:''' So therefore this ''varṇāśrama'' college is very essential.

'''Governor:''' Both intensive and extensive training.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Proper training. It may be extensive and intensive . . . doesn't matter.

'''Governor:''' You said five percent and ninety-five percent.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ninety-five percent may remain non-''brāhmaṇa''. But this five percent, if they are strongly brahminical, then others will follow. ''Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārāḥ sahasraśaḥ''. You have got millions of stars. Nobody cares for them. But people are looking after "When the moon will rise? When the moon will rise?" That one moon is sufficient than millions of stars. So this is the suggestion. Then?

'''Brahmānanda:''' "The propagation of ''mānava-dharma''. Regarding propagation of ''mānava-dharma'', ''mānava-dharma'' means the activities of the human beings. So the distinction between ''mānava-dharma'' and ''paśu-dharma ''is that in the animal society there is no idea of God consciousness. God consciousness can only be propagated in human society. In the animal society they may be physically stronger than the humans, like the tiger and the elephant or many such animals, but they cannot be educated spiritually."

'''Prabhupāda:''' They may be very strong, our tiger and elephant, but they have no capacity to accept any education. Then?

'''Brahmānanda:''' "But in human society, even though one may be a low-grade member of the society, he can be trained up to be purified as a first-class ''brāhmaṇa''. It only requires training. Therefore, ''manava-dharma ''means to impregnate a human being with spiritual knowledge. A human being must be educated spiritually. That means he must know that he is not this body. Kṛṣṇa teaches this idea in the beginning of the ''Bhagavad-gītā'',

:''dehino 'smin yathā dehe''
:''kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā''
:''tathā dehāntara prāptir''
:''dhīras tatra na muhyati''
:([[BG 2.13 (1972)|BG 2.13]])

"This is the beginning of spiritual education, that every one of us is not this body. Unfortunately, the whole world is in darkness, and therefore every human is identifying with this body and thinking wrongly, 'I am Indian,' 'I'm American,' 'I am ''brāhmaṇa'',' 'I am this,' 'I am that.' To drive away this misconception of life is actually ''manava-dharma''. We must know that we are not this body but spirit soul, and as such, we are part and parcel of God and therefore qualitatively one with God, exactly like a small particle of gold is also gold as is the gold from the big gold mine. But quantitatively the particle of gold is not equal to the gold in the mine. This is very elaborately described in the ''Bhagavad-gītā'', and if we accept these principles of ''Bhagavad-gītā'' as ''manava-dharma'', then the whole world will appreciate. And this is being done by our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

"Point Five: Elements in our tradition relating to ''dharma ''and ''saṁsṛti'', which are useful and wholesome but which . . . but, are being discarded in practice, and those which may be considered to be unsuitable in the present times. Number Five: Regarding elements in our tradition relating to ''dharma ''and ''saṁsṛti'' . . ."

'''Prabhupāda:''' This kind of understanding at the present time, at the present time . . . so we give reference, that "Present time, everyone is fallen." But truth is always the same, not at present time. So the real truth is that ideal man of character there must be. Because at the present moment there is no character, there is no moral education; therefore we have to adapt according to them. No. The ''pakkā ''moralist, he must be moralist. It doesn't matter that "People at the present time, they do all immoral activities—therefore we have to adjust." No. Strictly one should be moralist. There is no question of present time or past time. That should be real point of view. Then?

'''Brahmānanda:''' "Regarding the elements in our tradition relating to ''dharma ''and ''saṁsṛti'', we must adopt the whole ''varṇa'' and ''āśramas ''as they are recommended in all the ''śāstras''. If you give up these directions of the ''śāstras'', that is neither ''dharma ''nor ''saṁsṛti'', at least in the Indian tradition, as it is directed in the ''Bhagavad-gītā ''that the four divisions of social and the four divisions of religious systems like ''brāhmaṇa'', ''kṣatriya'', ''vaiśya'', ''śūdra'', ''brahmacārī'', ''gṛhastha'', ''vānaprastha ''and ''sannyāsī ''must be adopted. Otherwise there is no tradition of ''bhāratīya saṁsṛti''."

'''Prabhupāda:''' If you give up this ''varṇāśrama-dharma'', then where is your ''bhāratīya saṁsṛti''? But they are trying to give it up, abolish this. Then where is ''bhāratīya saṁsṛti''? Then?

'''Brahmānanda:''' "Six: Injunctions of ''śāstras ''regarding charity and how it should be practiced in the present conditions. So the mutual relationship of ''dharma ''and politics in the light of our history and tradition can only be revived when we observe the system of ''varṇāśrama''. It is actually like this: the ''brāhmaṇa ''is like the head, and the ''kṣatriya ''is like the arms, the ''vaiśya ''is the stomach or the abdomen, and the ''śūdra ''is like the legs. Similarly, spiritually, the ''brahmacārī ''is the trained-up disciple, the ''gṛhastha ''is the trained-up householder, the ''vānaprastha ''is experienced as a retired gentleman, and the ''sannyāsī ''is completely in the renounced order of life for spiritual advancement. There is no question of the head being in an exalted position without the cooperation of the leg. When there is a pin-prick in some part of the leg, the head immediately takes it very seriously and takes out the thorn in some part of the leg. Similarly, whenever there is some outside attack, the arms or the hands spread to protect the whole body. In the same way, within the abdomen there is the machinery of digesting foodstuffs, and after digestion the secretion turns into blood, and it is infused throughout the whole anatomical structure of the body. Similarly, the cooperation between the head, arms, stomach and legs is the perfect situation of the human society."

'''Governor:''' Coordination.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Coordination. As head is also trying to maintain the body nicely, this arm is also. Now this has been nationally centralized. So that is the idea. Not that "Because I am head, ''brāhmaṇa'', oh, here is a ''śūdra''. Oh, don't see his face." Why? ''Śūdra ''is also required. Leg is also required. Head is also required.

'''Governor:''' It is an harmonious coordination.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, harmonious coordination. But the ''śūdras ''were hated like anything, and they became Muhammadans. And there was no reacceptance. Formerly, from Caitanya literature, we understand that if the Musselman will take little water from the ''badna'' and sprinkle like this, then you become Muhammadan. In this way all these Indians, they became Muhammadan. And the result is now the Pakistan, and you go on fighting forever. Why these innocent persons who were by sprinkling water became Muhammadan, why they do not claim? Kṛṣṇa and the ''śāstra'', it does not say that if one has fallen, you cannot reclaim him. No, why not reclaim him? ''Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa '' . . . ([[BG 9.32 (1972)|BG 9.32]]). This is by birth. And of course, in our country everything was taken by birth. Now it is going on. But even by birth one is low grade . . .

'''Governor:''' No, birth also was built up by a tradition. They were brought up in that atmosphere.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. It doesn't matter. But if he wants to be elevated, he should be given chance. That is the verdict of all ''śāstras''. Now we are feeling, India, this difficulty. Because they are Europeans, Americans, the so-called big societies, they are not agreeable to accept them. You see? Although ''śāstra ''does not say so. ''Śāstra ''says, ''māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ'': "If one takes shelter of Me, even he is born in ''pāpa-yoni '' . . ." ''striyaḥ vaiśyās tathā '' . . . ''te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim'', "they can also be elevated to the highest exalted position." And in the ''Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam ''it is, many places it is said that a low-born person can be elevated. ''Caṇḍalo 'pi dvija śreṣṭho hari-bhakti-parāyaṇaḥ''.

'''Governor:''' We have right example of Vālmīki.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah, Vālmīki. There were many. There were many. Nārada. Nārada was a son of a maidservant, ''śūdra''. He had no father. So ''dāsī-putra''. And he became Nārada. So where is the restriction? Similarly, in the ''Jabalopaniṣad'', Satyakāma Jabala, he was also a prostitute's son. And he approached Gautama Muni, "You kindly make me your disciple." Gautama Muni said, "What you are?" "I am my mother's son, that's all." "Then who is your father?" "That I do not know." "Ask your mother." So mother replied, "My dear son, I do not know who is your father." And he came and said to Gautama Muni, "Sir, my mother also does not know who is my father." Then Gautama Muni said, "Yes, you are ''brāhmaṇa''. Come on. I shall . . ." Because speaking truth. So unless you are a son of a ''brāhmaṇa'', you cannot speak such secret truth. Nobody will say that, "I do not know who is my father." It is social scandal, even up to date. But he plainly said that, "My mother does not know who is my father." So immediately Gautama Muni accepted him as ''brāhmaṇa'': "You are telling the truth." ''Satya śamaḥ damaḥ''. Because it is first qualification.

So such a high cultural life. Now we should take standard ''śāstra ''and follow and establish educational institution to train them. Otherwise, simply by crying in the wilderness, what will be the result? Now some result is there because I am practically training them. And before me, all the ''svāmīs ''went there, they lectured, that's all. So what is the meaning of lectures unless you train them? That "Our Hindu religion is very great, very nice, and whatever you like, you can do. It doesn't matter." Then where is the training? Now little effect is there because I am training them. As soon as one comes to me for becoming disciple, I place before him that "You have to give up all these habits." When he agrees, then I accept him. And therefore I have got some selected, trained-up men. So there must be this training college, institution, and proper training according to the ''śāstra''. Then there is possibility of changing the whole situation. Then what is next?

'''Brahmānanda:''' "The injunctions of ''śāstras ''regarding charity and how it should be practiced in the present conditions. The injunction of the ''śāstra ''about charity is that charity should be given to qualified ''brāhmaṇa ''or ''sannyāsī'', because they will spend it for the benefit of the whole human society. This is called charity in goodness. In the ''śāstras ''there . . ."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Just like we are getting charity, crores of rupees, but we are spending for this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, not for drinking. And if charity is given to a drunkard, what he will do? He will drink only. Therefore charity is recommended to be given to the ''brāhmaṇa ''and the ''sannyāsī'', no other else. Then?

'''Governor:''' The ''apatra-dana''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah? ''Apatra-dana'', that is third class. Go on.

'''Brahmānanda:''' "This is called charity in goodness. In the ''śāstras ''there is no recommendation for giving charity to the unqualified men. In this connection I am enclosing a copy of one chart reproduced in our Back to Godhead, 'Charity in ignorance . . .' "

'''Prabhupāda:''' She has written one article in our Back to Godhead. I am quoting from that.

'''Brahmānanda:''' ". . . in ignorance performed at an improper time and place to an unworthy person like a gambler or a drunkard, or contemptuously, without respect. Charity in passion: performed to get something in return with a desire for fruitive results or in a grudging mood. Charity in goodness—performed as a duty and at the proper time and place to a worthy person and with no expectation of material returns. And charity in pure goodness—performed only to satisfy the Supreme Lord. In the ''śāstras ''charity in passion and ignorance is completely rejected, although people do it unconsciously. Charity in goodness only is recommended.

"Point Eight: Proper and beneficial use of the income and property of the institutions and how far the policies of the government and the exercise of its authority in its behalf are just and proper. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī was the chief minister of the government of Nawab Hussain Shah. He gave us a good example how to divide the property in the society. Fifty percent of the income must be spent for Kṛṣṇa, twenty-five percent of the income should be spent for family, and twenty-five percent should be kept in reserve for emergency expenditure. Spending fifty percent of the income for Kṛṣṇa means for the whole society by encouraging the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

"Nine: The role of ''Manava-Dharma Parishad''. I think that if the ''Manava-Dharma Parishad ''takes these suggestions of mine very seriously, certainly it will be of great benefit to the Indians and the whole world. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is going on on this principle, and if the ''Parishad ''inaugurated by you cooperates with us, certainly we can render a very great service to the human society. So far ''manava-dharma ''is concerned, it should not be restricted within the Indian borders, because human beings are in all parts of the world.

"Ten: The ''manava-dharma ''mission, its constitution and program. Therefore the constitution of ''manava-dharma ''or the institution of ''varṇāśrama ''must be interesting for the whole world, and it should be exemplified by practical demonstration. The immediate program should be village organization, as Mahatma Gandhi contemplated. In India the majority of the population is in the villages. The difficulty is that there is no sufficient supply of water to produce food grains. Mother nature, or mother Durgā, punishes the godless demons by restricting the supply of food grains. The godless demons are very enthusiastic to produce motorcars, skyscrapers, brothels and cinemas, and many unnecessary demands of the body, but they are not interested in producing food grains. This is the defect of the modern society. If food grains are produced in an organized way, human society can produce ten times what they are presently producing. In the ''Bhagavad-gītā ''it is confirmed,

:''annād-bhavanti bhūtāni''
:''parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ''
:''yajñād bhavati parjanyo''
:''yajñaḥ karma-samudbhavaḥ''
:([[BG 3.14 (1972)|BG 3.14]])

I hope you will give your serious consideration to my suggestions, and I am prepared to cooperate with you to my best capacity if you think my suggestions are right."

'''Prabhupāda:''' This suggestion is to you also. (chuckles) And if you can do these things organizedly, certainly it will be beneficial to the whole human society.

'''Governor:''' Any elaboration of what you refer to as ''vānaprastha ''college?

'''Brahmānanda:''' ''Varnāśrama''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, ''varṇāśrama''. ''Vānaprastha '' . . . just like we have got this building. Now, if somebody retires and engages himself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, they are welcome. They can take ''prasādam ''and stay here. It is not possible at the present moment that gentlemen will live in the forest. That is not possible. Then here is a place, Vṛndāvana, holy place. We have constructed this building, and people should take ''vānaprastha'', or retirement, and may come here and live peacefully and cultivate spiritual knowledge.

'''Brahmānanda:''' I think the governor was asking about the ''varṇāśrama ''college.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah. ''Varnāśrama ''college, that training factual ''brāhmaṇa''. And the government should be, as I explained to you, that if one is proclaiming himself as a ''brāhmaṇa'', he must act as a ''brāhmaṇa''. If one is proclaiming as a ''kṣatriya'', he must act as a ''kṣatriya''. Otherwise, there will be no restriction, and a ''śūdra ''will claim to be ''brāhmaṇa''. That will create a disturbing situation. In Pṛthu Mahārāja's time it was strictly prohibited that . . . that is stated in ''Bhagavad-gītā'', ''sva-dharme nidhanaṁ śreyaḥ para-dharmo bhayāvahaḥ'' ([[BG 3.35 (1972)|BG 3.35]]). So if one is claiming to be ''brāhmaṇa'', he must be ''brāhmaṇa'', he must become ''brāhmaṇa''. There is another way of reforming the society. And nowadays everyone is a ''śūdra'', and somebody is claiming, "I am ''brāhmaṇa''," "I am ''kṣatriya''," "I am this," "I am that." Formerly the ''brāhmaṇas ''strictly following. They would not accept . . . in the ''śāstras ''it is said that the ''brāhmaṇa ''in bad time may become a ''kṣatriya''. Just like Dronācārya. He was ''brāhmaṇa'', but he became a ''kṣatriya ''for certain reason, and acting like ''kṣatriya'', although he was respected as ''brāhmaṇa'', but he was acting as a ''kṣatriya''. So it is advised that ''brāhmaṇa ''may take the profession of a ''kṣatriya ''and up to the ''vaiśya''. But if he takes the profession of a ''śūdra'', then he is fallen. Then he is fallen. So this cultural institution should now be introduced. And the other countries, they are still respectful to the Indian culture. That's a fact. I have studied. So if we keep ourself in our, what he has mentioned, ''saṁsṛti''?

'''Brahmānanda:''' ''Bhāratīya saṁsṛti''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Bhāratīya saṁsṛti''. It will be very respectfully accepted. Why should we imitate them? That is . . . Western civilization is not brahminical culture. There is no brahminical culture. And brahminical culture is needed. That is the head. That is the brain. And a little bit of this brahminical culture, because I am distributing and they are accepting it so nicely . . . so in our India, in a place like Vṛndāvana, Naimiṣāraṇya, like that, many people will come, if ''varṇāśrama ''college is established. Of course we, in India, so far I know, nobody will come to be trained up as a ''brāhmaṇa''. (chuckles) They will prefer to be trained up as an electrician and not as a ''brāhmaṇa''. Our Bon Mahārāja, he also tried for a Vaiṣṇava University. He was unsuccessful.

'''Governor:''' No, we take this electrician or engineer or a doctor . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, that is already being taken. There are institution where electricians are trained up and motorist, they are . . . they have enough.

'''Governor:''' No, what is . . . what is the . . . an electrician, we get him. He is an electrician and also becoming a ''brāhmaṇa''. An engineer . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no, that cannot be.

'''Governor:''' You want completely a ''brāhmaṇa''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Then there will be ideal character. That is going on. One man is claiming, "I am ''brāhmaṇa''," but he is doing the work of electrician. That is already going on.

'''Governor:''' No, but while doing his profession, if he has good influence of the ''varṇāśrama-dharma'', of the ''brāhmaṇa'', and then he will do the work with the dedication to God and to the society.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No. Why you are suggesting that although he is a ''brāhmaṇa'', he become a electrician? Why?

'''Governor:''' I will put it this way. He is an engineer, but I would also like . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Engineer?

'''Governor:''' A mechanical engineer.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Governor:''' And he also be influenced by the good points of ''varṇāśrama-dharma''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, that is stated in the ''Bhagavad-gītā'', ''sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya saṁsiddhiḥ labhate naraḥ'' ([[BG 18.46 (1972)|BG 18.46]]). That is another way, that "I have no other means of earning livelihood." But if he becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then even though he is acting as an electrician, he is in touch with Kṛṣṇa. That is recommended in the ''Bhagavad-gītā'', ''sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya''. That I have explained in the ''varṇāśrama-dharma'', that even though leg is leg, it is not as important as the head. But the leg is also required to keep the body in healthy condition. So that electrician who has connection with Kṛṣṇa, he is no more electrician—he is Vaiṣṇava, because he has got his relationship with Kṛṣṇa. So that is explained in the ''Bhagavad-gītā''. (aside) Find out.

'''Brahmānanda:''' ''Bhagavad-gītā''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya saṁsiddhiḥ labhate naraḥ''. He can get perfection.

'''Brahmānanda:''' ''Sva-karmaṇā '' . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Tam abhyarcya''. S-v-a, ''sva''.

'''Brahmānanda:''' S-v-a.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Sva''.

'''Governor:''' You can find later, Swāmījī . . . (indistinct) . . . (devotees still looking for verse)

'''Brahmānanda:''' ''Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya siddhiṁ vindati mānavaḥ ''([[BG 18.46 (1972)|BG 18.46]]). "By worship of the Lord, who is the source of all beings and who is all-pervading, man can, in the performance of his own duty, attain perfection."

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's it. That is there. What is the purport?

'''Brahmānanda:''' "As stated in the Fifteenth Chapter, all living beings are fragmental parts and parcels of the Supreme Lord. As such, the Supreme Lord is the beginning of all living entities. It is confirmed in the ''Vedānta-sūtra'', ''janmādy asya yataḥ'' ([[SB 1.1.1|SB 1.1.1]]). The Supreme Lord is therefore the beginning of life of every living entity. And the Supreme Lord, by His two energies, His external energy and internal energy, is all-pervading. Therefore one should worship the Supreme Lord with His energies. Generally the Vaiṣṇava devotees worship the Supreme Lord with His internal energy. His external energy is a perverted reflection of the internal energy. The external energy is a background, but the Supreme Lord, by the expansion of His plenary portion as Paramātmā, is situated everywhere. He is the Supersoul of all demigods, all human beings, all animals, everywhere. One should therefore know that as part and parcel of the Supreme Lord it is his duty to render service unto the Supreme. Everyone should be engaged in devotional service to the Lord in full Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is recommended in this verse. Everyone should think that he is engaged in a particular type of occupation by Hṛṣīkeśa, the master of the senses. And, by the result of the work in which he is engaged, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, should be worshiped. If one thinks . . ."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Now, he is electrician. If whatever he earns he engages in worship Kṛṣṇa, then he is transcendental. He is not an electrician, he is a Vaiṣṇava. This is clearly said. Yes. Then?

'''Brahmānanda:''' "If one thinks always in this way in full Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then, by the grace of the Lord, he becomes fully aware of everything. That is the perfection of life. The Lord says in ''Bhagavad-gītā'', ''teṣām ahaṁ samuddhartā'' ([[BG 12.6-7 (1972)|BG 12.7]]). The Supreme Lord Himself takes charge of delivering such devotees. That is the highest perfection of life. In whatever occupation one may be engaged, if he serves the Supreme Lord, he will achieve the highest perfection."

'''Prabhupāda:''' So, some of the big men, past politician like Nandajī, they are also thinking very nicely. Now it is the time to coordinate all these thinkers on the basis of ''Bhagavad-gītā'', as we are pushing on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That should be seriously taken immediately. And another difficulty is that without any reference to the ''śāstra ''there are so many spiritual propagandist. That is not very good. That is not very good. Not good at all. No question of very good. They are more or less atheist. They will not take, accept, the instruction of the ''Bhagavad-gītā''. They'll manufacture their own way. That will not help us. You must take the standard things. Then it will be successful. In my this propaganda, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, I am very much satisfied that I did not adulterate any instruction of the ''śāstra''. And it is becoming very effective. And in the ''Bhagavad-gītā ''also it is stated, ''yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ ''([[BG 16.23 (1972)|BG 16.23]]). (aside) Find out this verse. ''Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya''.

'''Brahmānanda:''' Is that y-a?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yah, yes. Y-a-h. ''Yaḥ śāstra''.

'''Brahmānanda:''' ''Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah, that verse. This index has been done by them. Yes.

'''Governor:''' Very nice.

'''Brahmānanda:'''

:''yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya''
:''vartate kāma-kārataḥ''
:''na sa siddhim avāpnoti''
:''na sukhaṁ na parāṁ gatim''
:([[BG 16.23 (1972)|BG 16.23]])

"But he who discards scriptural injunctions and acts according to his own whims attains neither perfection, nor happiness, nor the supreme destination."

"As described before, the ''śāstra-vidhim'', or the direction of the ''śāstra'', is given to the different castes and orders of human society. Everyone is expected to follow these rules and regulations. If one does not follow them and acts whimsically according to his lust, greed and desire, then he never will be perfect in his life. In other words, a man may theoretically know all these things, but if he does not apply them in his own life, then he is to be known as the lowest of mankind. In the human form of life, a living entity is expected to be sane and to follow the regulations given for elevating his life to the highest platform, but if he does not follow them, then he degrades himself. But even if he follows the rules and regulations and moral principles and ultimately does not come to the stage of understanding the Supreme Lord, then all his knowledge becomes spoiled.

"Therefore one should gradually raise himself to the platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and devotional service; it is then and there that he can attain the highest perfectional stage, not otherwise. The word ''kāma-kārataḥ ''is very significant. A person who knowingly violates the rules acts in lust. He knows that this is forbidden; still he acts. This is called acting whimsically. He knows that this should be done, but still he does not do it—therefore he is called whimsical. Such persons are destined to be condemned by the Supreme Lord. Such persons cannot have the perfection which is meant for the human life. The human life is especially meant for purifying one's existence, and one who does not follow the rules and regulations cannot purify himself, nor can he attain to the real stage of happiness."

'''Prabhupāda:''' So, arrangement is . . .? Just see?

'''Brahmānanda:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' We can go?

'''Governor:''' Last . . . (indistinct) . . . (break) (end)

771103 - Conversation G - Vrndavana

2024-02-07T04:58:32Z

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770108 - Conversation C - Bombay

2024-02-07T04:58:29Z

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740214 - Conversation - Vrndavana

2024-02-07T04:58:24Z

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[[Category:1974 - Conversations]]
[[Category:1974 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1974 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1974-02 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Conversations - India]]
[[Category:Conversations - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Bengali Snippets]]
[[Category:Audio Files 20.01 to 30.00 Minutes]]
[[Category:1974 - New Audio - Released in October 2014]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Conversations - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Conversations - by Date|Conversations by Date]], [[:Category:1974 - Conversations|1974]]'''</div>
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<div class="code">740214R1-VRNDAVAN - February 14, 1974 - 27:03 Minutes</div>

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1974/740214R1-VRNDAVAN.mp3</mp3player>

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . even those who are farmers . . . (indistinct) . . . in India also. As soon as they get some education, they don't want to be a farmer.

'''Gurudāsa:''' They're going to the cities.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. They will be satisfied to become a petty clerk and get some very little income. They will be satisfied. They don't want to be . . . ''śūdra''. That is the real ''śūdra''. They are satisfied simply by eating, that's all. No ambition.

'''Gurudāsa:''' So somehow or other we have to attract some ''śūdras'' to our movement if we want to work self-sufficiently.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So for the time being, what is to be done? We shall take it, then we shall see, find out ''śūdra'', offer better price. But we will require more land.

'''Gurudāsa:''' We will require a self-sufficient. Not only land, but we require a self-sufficient community.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is wanted.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Because of Kali-yuga. And also everyone in Vṛndāvana that I mention that we are planning to have ''gośala'', everyone likes the idea. That will be very popular here. ''Gośala'', everyone, their eyes become bright.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Make at least ''gośala'', keep cows. That is also profitable.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Yes, maybe we should do that.

'''Prabhupāda:''' One or two men may simply take care of the cows.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Maybe we should do that.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And grow grass, let them pasture.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Yes, and plant trees.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Maybe we should do that.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Anyway, we have to utilize the land; otherwise what is the use?

'''Gurudāsa:''' No, of course.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Suppose we invest one ''lakh'' of rupees. One ''lakh'' rupees means 10,000 rupees per annum, almost 800, 900 rupees per month, yes interest. So we must utilize it. From this monetary point of view, because they get bank interest, people are not very interested in land.

'''Gurudāsa:''' But you can't eat money.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Gurudāsa:''' You can't eat money.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ultimately that is the . . . (aside) What? (break) . . . somehow or other, but it must be properly utilized. Who will give me massage?

'''Satsvarūpa:''' Oh, Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So ask him. (break) . . . money.

'''Gurudāsa:''' My point of . . . you can't eat money means that if it is in the bank earning interest . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Gurudāsa:''' My point was if it is in the bank earning interest, we may die at any moment, so what is the point of in the bank? But if we have some land and utilizing it, it is a better investment.

'''Prabhupāda:''' First you purchase, then we shall make program. For the time being, purchase. Actually that is money.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' When you sow it, it will bring more money. There will be no problem.

'''Gurudāsa:''' In the old system, land and jewelry was riches.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Jewelry for rich man, land for ordinary man. Land and food grains, that is money. So at our present status, how we can utilize this land? As grazing ground, money?

'''Gurudāsa:''' Presently I think ''gośala'' is more practical.

'''Prabhupāda:''' There is another ''gośala'', they are not utilizing, Panchayat Gośala. Why don't you try for that? They can give it free, that we shall . . . "Give us it, we shall utilize it for Kṛṣṇa."

'''Gurudāsa:''' We can try.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Find out who is Panchayat. "If we do not use for ''gośala'', then you can take it back. But we shall utilize it for ''gośala''. So why don't you give us the land?" Attached to the temple, we maintain a ''gośala''.

'''Gurudāsa:''' That's nice.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Still we shall require to grow some food for the cows, and nice water supply. Then you simply keep the cows there. They will eat and drink and remain here peacefully. Only one room for watching.

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' (indistinct) . . . he was complaining when I have last time . . . (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Basudever yata boi, ini sob gras kore niyechen. (All the books of Basudeva, he has taken all that.)

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' I think he had given him the books for distribution. He is distributing them.

'''Prabhupāda:''' But he was to give one house and so many things, then he was to distribute them, whatever.

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' Huh?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sunchilum, Basudev oikhane bari debe . . . (indistinct) . . . (I heard that Basudeva will be given one residential place there . . . (indistinct) . . .) (break)

'''Bhagavān:''' . . . should we come back again.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Apni ekbar asun amader oikhane. Paris. London. (You please come to all our places. Paris. London.)

'''Indian Man:''' Radharani pathan amake. (Let Radharani send me.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Radharani pathabe. Khali kichu taka kharac korte hobe. Radharani pathaben. Amar mato ekjan adhamke pathalo! (Radharani will surely send you. Only you have to spend some money. Radharani will. She has sent an insignificant person like me.)

'''Indian Man:''' Apnito Radharanir mission niye eschen. Kaj korchen to. (You have come for the mission of Radharani. You are working for that.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Apnio yaben to, mission niye yaben. (You will also go, with some mission.)

'''Indian Man:''' So I said, Radharani . . . (indistinct)

'''Gurudāsa:''' Also, in Vṛndāvana we are here to stay, no matter what the people say.

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sob jagay te amader birodh. (We are facing opposition everywhere.) But we stay. Birodh tarpare matlab, lok bhangano . . . (indistinct) . . . kintu, yai hok theke ache. Gurubhairai yakhan . . . (indistinct) . . . oi asol, basic princlple ta holo himsa. Ei amader ekhane te esob holo, na holo . . . (indistinct) . . . Baro baro Maharaj ra sob, ar ei ekta cuno puti lok . . . (indistinct) . . . amader Madhav Maharaj to sunechi advertise koren double M.A. (Opposition, malice agenda . . . (indistinct) . . . anyways, that's alright. But when Godbrothers are . . . (indistinct) . . . but the main, basic principle is envy. That we couldn't make it happen like this . . . (indistinct) . . . they are such big big Mahārājas, and here is this tiny little fellow . . . (indistinct) . . . I heard that our Madhava Maharaja advertises himself to be a double M.A.)

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' ''Ācchā''. He is not a . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' He is not a . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' You do not know?

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' No, I don't know. I think he is a graduate. Huh? He's not even a graduate? (Prabhupāda chuckles) I was told that he was a graduate long ago, you see, when I used to go to Calcutta, the Gauḍīya Maṭh there.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Anyway . . .

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' And Bon Mahārāja also has told he is a graduate. What is he?

'''Prabhupāda:''' What is he?

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' Bon Mahārāja, graduate? He is Karachi graduate.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, I don't think so. Anyway, so Falanite ata sota, bikr belay kac kola (Bengali proverb). (Shows off alot but when it is a question of working, then they are nothing.) Bon Mahārāja, eiye, ye boi likhechen, (Bon Mahārāja has written a book,) very important.

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' Boi likhechen, onek guli boi likhechen, tar madhye likhechen 'ami Bhagavan darshan peyechi, ei lila darshan korechi, sei lila darshan korechi. Sei sob likhechen. (He has written a book, he has written many books. He has written in that book that, "I have got the ''darshan'' of the Lord, I have seen this pastime, that pastime." He has written all this.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Ācchā''. Etato keu lekhe na. (No one has written this.) (break)

'''Bhagavān:''' Before I came, we had one big festival in Geneva for two days, Saturday and Sunday. Each night over 500 people. It was nice. Geneva's not very big.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Geneva is important town.

'''Bhagavān:''' Important. Not very big, though.

'''Prabhupāda:''' International town.

'''Bhagavān:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' When I was going to London from Bombay . . . no, no, when I was going to Switzerland, I think I stopped at Geneva.

'''Bhagavān:''' Zurich. You were in Zurich.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Zurich; before that I stopped at Geneva. I saw the airport, very big airport. Then I went Zurich. And from Zurich I went to some Mount St . . .

'''Bhagavān:''' St. Hellish. (laughs)

'''Prabhupāda:''' You have been there? You are right, St. Hellish . . . (indistinct)

'''Bhagavān:''' (laughs) Śyāmasundara.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, Śyāmasundara, "Oh, I have to . . ." He spent money for that. I thought, "It is hellish." (laughter) Always covered with snow. I could not get out. Two days I was imprisoned in that hotel room. But people go there.

'''Yamunā:''' For health.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Yamunā:''' For their health.

'''Prabhupāda:''' What is the health there? But one wonderful I saw from there. Down 10,000 feet . . . (indistinct) . . . hill.

'''Bhagavān:''' Mountain.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Mountain, yes. Down I saw the railway is going on. (break) . . . has entered the sky. That is it. That is . . . (indistinct) . . . and the railway is very nice. Not like Darjeeling.

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' You have to leave just now?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. I was to leave this morning, but I was to eat Yamunā's cooking . . . (indistinct) . . . cooking. Cooking was very nice, but I had no appetite.

'''Yamunā:''' Appetite. No appetite.

'''Prabhupāda:''' From yesterday lost my appetite.

'''Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:''' Because I was massaging you from yesterday.

'''Prabhupāda:''' (chuckles) No, that's not. It is Kṛṣṇa's grace to have less appetite, I think. Less sleep, less appetite, it is good. ''Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau''. They conquered over, but I have not conquered it. By Kṛṣṇa's grace, it is reduced.

'''Satsvarūpa:''' May I have the key to the almirah, put these books away?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. (break) You have got the duplicate key? So I can take this key?

'''Gurudāsa:''' Yes, I've given it to Guṇārṇava just now.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Gurudāsa:''' I've given it to Guṇārṇava this morning, the duplicate.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. (break)

'''Yamunā:''' So I will not live in this place.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Yamunā:''' I will not live in your house, but I will work here. Because there is some objection from the boys, a lady living here.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Apnar sange er sange dekha hoyechilo? Hari Gosvai. (Did you meet that gentleman? Hari Gosvai.)

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' Hari Gosvai er sange dekha hoyeche. (Yes I met Hari Gosvai.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Uni ki bolen? (What did he say?)

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' Ki bolen mane . . . (Means nothing as such . . .) He did not attend that meeting. So he doesn't have any first hand information.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Apni o to chilen, apni dekhen ni? (You were also there in that meeting, you did not see?)

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' Na. (No.) They didn't invite me.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ta meeting ta kiser? (What was the meeting about?)

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' All the gosvāmīs. A representative gathering of all the gosvāmīs.

'''Prabhupāda:''' All the gosvāmīs . . . (indistinct) . . . all Rādhā-Ramaṇa gosvāmīs?

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' No, not all Rādhā-Ramaṇa gosvāmīs. The Rādhā-Damodara gosvāmīs are represented by . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' They were represented by . . . (indistinct) . . . Gosvāmī and Mahārāja . . . (indistinct) . . . Gosvāmī, but the gosvāmīs of the other temples.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Madana-Mohana Gosvāmī.

'''Yamunā:''' Rādhā-Dāmodara's were there?

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' Rādhā-Dāmodara was there. Yes.

'''Yamunā:''' Yesterday Madana-Mohana Gosvāmī was little bit rude, yesterday.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Ācchā?'' To you?

'''Yamunā:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' What did he say?

'''Yamunā:''' He was angry because he had locked the door and locked me outside, and I knocked on the door until he came, and he was angry. He was a little rude. So I could tell something was wrong.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Because usually he is not so rude.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Gurudāsa:''' Usually he is not rude.

'''Yamunā:''' He is never harsh. He was a little harsh. I could tell something was wrong.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So they are planning something.

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' I don't know exactly. I've not been able to make out what their plans are exactly, because they don't tell me everything.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' They don't tell me everything. They have something up their sleeves. I don't know what.

'''Gurudāsa:''' So what should be our . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Madana-Mohana Gosvāmī, other time he was not harsh?

'''Yamunā:''' Not to me. To Gurudāsa maybe, but never me.

'''Prabhupāda:''' But this time he was harsh?

'''Yamunā:''' Yes, very harsh.

'''Prabhupāda:''' What did he say?

'''Yamunā:''' He was yelling.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Yamunā:''' He was yelling, raising his voice. He wasn't speaking in a quiet tone, he was yelling at me, "Why you are disturbing my ''sevā-pūjā'' by making me come to the door?" I said: "I am engaged in Vaiṣṇava ''sevā'' as well. Vaiṣṇava ''sevā'' and Kṛṣṇa ''sevā''. You please excuse me." I was very courteous, but he was harsh.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So he was on the door?

'''Yamunā:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Madana-Mohana temple door?

'''Yamunā:''' Yes, putting the wooden bolt so I can't come inside. Yesterday this was. After leaving here for ''pravacana'' and going there, he had locked the gate. Then I knocked until he came.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Madana-Mohana Gosvāmī or Rādhā-Ramaṇa?

'''Yamunā:''' No, Madana-Mohana Gosvāmī.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So what business you have to go to Madana-Mohana temple at that time?

'''Yamunā:''' Madana-Mohana Gosvāmī of Rādhā-Dāmodara temple.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ohhhh.

'''Yamunā:''' Gaurachand's other side, where we live.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah, Madana-Mohana Gosvāmī. I thought from Madana-Mohana temple.

'''Yamunā:''' No.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Well, what about this Gaurachand Gosvāmī?

'''Yamunā:''' He is calling for Gurudāsa sometimes. We don't speak so much. I don't see him because he isn't doing worship for the Deity of Dāmodara any more. So he is quiet, stays in the background. I think he wants sometimes a little money.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Yamunā:''' I think he is having a little difficulty with money, so he asks sometimes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Some help?

'''Yamunā:''' Sometimes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Does he?

'''Gurudāsa:''' Not very often, sometimes.

'''Yamunā:''' Otherwise we don't see so much. But now I find he moved from Dāmodara.

'''Gurudāsa:''' The last time I saw him, he said he wants Panchu to work for us. He said he . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' So what he will work? What he will work?

'''Gurudāsa:''' He says he will do anything.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Anything, but what anything? What?

'''Gurudāsa:''' Right now we have no work except construction. So what should I tell him when I see him?

'''Prabhupāda:''' What about?

'''Gurudāsa:''' If he asks what about Panchu working there?

'''Prabhupāda:''' So what kind of work you can provide? Is there any work for him?

'''Gurudāsa:''' Only now construction.

'''Prabhupāda:''' The construction, what he will do? He has no experience. Now see this ''gosvāmī'', worshiping Deity, now he has no worshiping job, "Give me construction work."

'''Gurudāsa:''' When we start our Deity program, should we . . .?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no.

'''Gurudāsa:''' No paid?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No pay, neither . . . he smokes.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Suppose he will join us and shave head and give up ''bīḍīs'', then he can . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' That will take six life. (laughter) ''Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante'' ([[BG 7.19 (1972)|BG 7.19]]). It is not so easy. It is not so easy. To give up all these things, it is only by Kṛṣṇa's grace. But they are not meant for that. But for money's sake, business' sake, they can take any shape. That is another thing. At least they will not be able to give up ''bīḍīs''. That is not possible. They may be gosvāmī for everything, not for ''bīḍī''. Ki bolen? (What do you say?)

'''Indian Man:''' Na, ta thik bolchen bate. (Yes, you are saying right.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sob bisay te hote pare, oi . . . oi ta parbe na. Babajio tai. (They can do everything except that. Babaji is also like that.)

'''Indian Man:''' Yodi Bhagavaner darshan pay, Bhagavan balen 'tumi ki cao balo', to bolbe amar kono bidita kharap korben na'. (If they got the Darshan of the Lord and the Lord asks them what do you want, then they will say: "Kindly don't damage this ''bīḍī''.") (chuckles)

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' So Prabhupāda, I have an engagement at 4:30. I came only to see you because Nirvāsi told me that you were leaving.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ta, asun apni. (Okay, goodbye then.)

'''Gurudāsa:''' So is there any instructions about this gosvāmī business that you have?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Gosvāmī business? What gosvāmī business?

'''Gurudāsa:''' These gosvāmīs of Vṛndāvana that are agitated.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, I have not received any letter from them. Unless we receive a letter, how we can say anything?

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' I have told Purushottam Gosvāmī . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' I have told Purushottam Gosvāmī and the other gosvāmīs also that Prabhupāda is in a very conciliatory mood, and if you make a proper approach, he is prepared to make proper amends for whatever has been taken in bad . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' But the approach should be proper.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' The approach should be proper.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. You told him?

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' I told him about the drafts, you see, that you made the other day. I said: "Prabhupāda has only agreed. It was so magnanimous of him, so magnanimous."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, I told you Friday, you write, I shall sign it. And why they are agitating and stopped such a function? And that is very regrettable. ''Gosvāmī'' means ''vāco vegaṁ krodha-vegaṁ viṣaheta'' (Upadeśāmṛta 1). If there is some ''krodha'', he should tolerate. Now here is a Vaiṣṇava, he has done so much for Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and the reception was there, and he stopped. How he is gosvāmī? He expressed his ''krodha'' in that very moment, just to take retaliation. It is not gosvāmī. What do you think? ''Krodha-vegam''. It is a ''krodha'', but he could not tolerate that ''krodha-vegam''.

He retaliated at the right moment and to a person, fit person, who was to be honored. Just see. And he claims to be gosvāmī. The first business is ''vāco vegaṁ krodha-vegam''. The Vaikuṇṭha mentality is that if one is serving—I have read it in ''Bhāgavata''—Kṛṣṇa better than somebody else, he would simply appreciate that, "Kṛṣṇa has so much favored him. Oh, how fortunate he is. When I shall be able?" That is Vaikuṇṭha mentality. And the material mentality is, "Oh, he has advanced so much. How to cut down him?" That is material. This is the difference between Vaikuṇṭha mentality. So his business is how to cut down. So he is not a gosvāmī. At least I will not accept. What do you think? Am I right or wrong?

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' Of course you are.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' What shall I say? (chuckles)

'''Prabhupāda:''' This is the definition of gosvāmī. ''Vāco vegam krodha-vegam udaro-vegam pastha-vegam etān manasaḥ vegam'', ''etān vegān viṣaheta dhīraḥ pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt'' ([[NOI 1|NOI 1]]). So he has not proved to be very ''dhīra''. ''Dhīrādhīra-priyau priya-karau nirmatsarau'' (Śrīnivāsa Ācārya). So that is my regret, that these people cannot appreciate the service of a Vaiṣṇava. They are simply personally interested. Personally interested is materialistic way of life. Everybody is personally interested. (break)

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' I think after he returns he will do something.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Dr. Kapoor:''' He might do something after he returns.

'''Prabhupāda:''' All right, we shall see to it. (end)

730616 - Lecture SB 01.10.01 - Mayapur

2024-02-07T04:58:16Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"

[[Category:1973 - Lectures]]
[[Category:1973 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1973 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1973-06 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Lectures - India]]
[[Category:Lectures - India, Mayapur]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Mayapur]]
[[Category:Lectures - Srimad-Bhagavatam]]
[[Category:SB Lectures - Canto 01|11001]]
[[Category:Audio Files 30.01 to 45.00 Minutes]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Bengali Snippets]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Lectures - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Lectures - by Date|Lectures by Date]], [[:Category:1973 - Lectures|1973]]'''</div>
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<div class="code">730616SB-MAYAPUR - June 16, 1973 - 31:31 Minutes</div>

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1973/730616SB-MAYAPUR.mp3</mp3player>

'''Pradyumna:'''

:''śaunaka uvāca''
:''hatvā svariktha-spṛdha ātatāyino''
:''yudhiṣṭhiro dharma-bhṛtāṁ variṣṭhaḥ''
:''sahānujaiḥ pratyavaruddha-bhojanaḥ''
:''kathaṁ pravṛttaḥ kim akāraṣīt tataḥ''
:([[SB 1.10.1|SB 1.10.1]])

(Prabhupāda interrupts to correct pronunciation of ''pratyavaruddha'')

(break)

''śaunakaḥ uvāca''—Śaunaka inquired; ''hatvā''—after killing; ''svariktha''—legal inheritance; ''spṛdhaḥ''—desiring to usurp; ''ātatāyinaḥ''—the aggressor; ''yudhiṣṭhiraḥ''—King Yudhiṣṭhira; ''dharma''-''bhṛtām''—of those who strictly follow religious principles; ''variṣṭhaḥ''—greatest; ''saha-anujaiḥ''—with his younger brothers; ''pratyavaruddha''—restricted; ''bhojanaḥ''—acceptance of necessities; ''katham''—how; ''pravṛttaḥ''—engaged; ''kim''—what; ''akāraṣīt''—executed; ''tataḥ''—thereafter.

Translation: "Śaunaka Muni asked: After killing his enemies who desired to usurp his rightful inheritance, how did the greatest of all religious men, Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, assisted by his brothers, rule his subjects? Surely he could not freely enjoy his kingdom with unrestricted consciousness."

'''Prabhupāda:''' So here the most important word is ''yudhiṣṭhiro dharma-bhṛtāṁ variṣṭhaḥ''. Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira was known as Dharmarāja, very strictly following religious principles. So he killed . . . for his sake, sixty-four ''crores'' of men were killed in the battlefield of Kurukṣetra. So he was not happy, although the battle, the fight, was religious fight. It is not whimsical. Just like in the modern days the politicians, they fight unnecessarily to fulfill their desire . . . just like in our country, unnecessarily they divided Pakistan, and to fulfill the whims of the leaders, they are fighting, with nobody's gain, neither there is any religious principles.

So fighting whimsically by the politicians, that is not sanctioned. There must be ''dharma''-''yuddha. dharma-yuddha'' means religious fight, fight on religious principles. So what was the religious principle?

(aside) Hmm, where is that mat? Machi taranor naki! (A mat to drive away the flies.)

Here it is said, ''hatvā ātatāyinaḥ. Ātatāyī'' means aggressor. If somebody comes to your home to kidnap your wife, to take by force your property or to set fire in your house, he is called ''ātatāyī''. He should immediately be killed. It is not that nonviolence nonsense. If somebody is coming to attack you unnecessarily, you must kill him first. It is not Vaiṣṇavism, "Oh, this man is coming to kill me. All right, let me embrace him." No. That is not the rule. When there is ''ātatāyī'', aggressor, you must fight, you must kill. That is religious.

So Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja, ''dharma''-''bhṛtāṁ variṣṭhaḥ'', he was so strictly followers of religious principle that when even Kṛṣṇa advised him that, "You go and say some lies to Droṇācārya. Because Droṇācārya will not believe anyone, you say and go there that, 'Your son Aśvatthāmā is dead.' " And Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja hesitated that, "How can I say this lie?" Of course, this is too much following religious principle. This is also another instruction. When Kṛṣṇa says that, "You go and speak the lies," he should have done immediately. That is ''dharma''.

Because ''dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam'' ([[SB 6.3.19|SB 6.3.19]]). ''dharma'' means which is given by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is ''dharma''. You cannot manufacture ''dharma''. Just like nowadays so many ''dharma''s have been manufactured. They are not ''dharma''. ''dharma'' means the order which is given by the Lord. That is ''dharma''. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, ''sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja'' ([[BG 18.66 (1972)|BG 18.66]]).

We have manufactured so many ''dharma''s: Hindu ''dharma'', Muslim ''dharma'', Christian ''dharma'', Parsi ''dharma'', Buddha ''dharma'', this ''dharma'', that ''dharma''. They are not ''dharma''; they are mental concoction. Mental concoction. Otherwise, there will be contradiction. Take, for example, the Hindus think cow-killing is a''dharma'', and the Muslim think that cow-killing is their ''dharma''. So which is correct? Whether cow killing is a''dharma'' or ''dharma''?

So these are mental concoction. ''Caitanya-caritāmṛta kaṛ'' says, ''ei bhāla ei manda saba manodharma'' ([[CC Antya 4.176|CC Antya 4.176]]), "mental concoction." Real ''dharma'' is what is ordered by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is ''dharma''. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, ''sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja'' ([[BG 18.66 (1972)|BG 18.66]]): "Give up your all manufactured ''dharma''. Here is the real ''dharma''." ''Śaraṇaṁ vraja''. "Just become surrendered unto Me, and that is real ''dharma''." ''Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam'' ([[SB 6.3.19|SB 6.3.19]]). Just like law. Laws can be manufactured, or can be given, by the government. You cannot make any law at your home. That is not law. Law means the order given by the government. The supreme government is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. ''Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo'' ([[BG 10.8 (1972)|BG 10.8]]), ''mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat'' ([[BG 7.7 (1972)|BG 7.7]]). There is nobody better than Kṛṣṇa, therefore the order given by Kṛṣṇa is ''dharma''. Our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that ''dharma''. Kṛṣṇa says, ''sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja'' ([[BG 18.66 (1972)|BG 18.66]]): "You give up all other so-called ''dharmas'', this ''dharma'', that ''dharma'', so many ''dharmas''. Simply just surrender unto Me."

So we are preaching the same principle, and that is confirmed by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Śrī Caitanya Mahā . . .

:''āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa''
:''yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa''
:([[CC Madhya 7.128|CC Madhya 7.128]])

This is ''dharma''. Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not manufacture any new system of ''dharma''. No. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa Himself. ''Namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te, kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa-caitanya-nāmne'' ([[CC Madhya 19.53|CC Madhya 19.53]]). So the only difference is . . . He is Kṛṣṇa Himself. The only difference is that Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead directly orders that, "You give up all nonsense; simply surrender unto Me." This is Kṛṣṇa. Because He is Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is giving directly order. The same Kṛṣṇa, because people misunderstood Him . . . even big, big scholars, they say: "It is too much that Kṛṣṇa is ordering like that." But they are rascals. They do not know. They cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa.

Therefore, because people misunderstood Him, Kṛṣṇa came as a devotee to teach how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa perfectly. Kṛṣṇa came. Just like sometimes my servant gives me massage. I say, by giving his head massage, "Do like this." So I am not his servant, but I am teaching him. Similarly, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa Himself, but He is teaching perfectly how to approach Kṛṣṇa, how to serve Kṛṣṇa. The same principle. Kṛṣṇa said: "You surrender unto Me," and Caitanya Mahāprabhu says: "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa." So on principle there is no change. On principle there is no change.

So here Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja, ''dharma-bhṛtāṁ variṣṭhaḥ'', of all the followers of religious principle, he is the foremost, ''variṣṭham''. So he was very sorry that, "For my sake, for enthroning me, oh, so many people have given their lives." Not only his cousin-brothers, the soldiers . . . and, because at that time, five thousand years ago, these kings or the emperors of Hastināpura were ruling all over the world. This planet was called Bhārata-varṣa, the whole planet. Not this now, a small tract of land. The whole world was called Bhārata-varṣa. Formerly it was called Ilāvṛta-varṣa. Since the reign of Mahārāja Bharata, this planet is called Bhārata-varṣa.

So the Pāṇḍavas or the Kurus, they were the rulers of the world. As such, when there was fight between the two section of cousin-brothers, from all parts of the world somebody joined this side, somebody joined that side. So I think in the ''Mahābhārata'' it is stated that sixty-four ''crores'' of men were killed, and many disappeared. Nobody knows about their whereabouts. So actually, Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja, ''dharma-bhṛtāṁ variṣṭhaḥ'', he was so great, stalwart, foremost followers of religious principle. He was very, very sorry that "For my sake so many people let down their life." So he was not happy.

Therefore in our ''śāstra'', when you commit some necessary sinful activities, to counteract it, a fasting, fasting is recommended. Therefore Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja was observing fasting, taking little necessities. Therefore Śaunaka Muni is inquiring that ''sahānujaiḥ pratyavaruddha-bhojanaḥ kathaṁ pravṛttaḥ kim akāraṣīt tataḥ'': "Then he was undergoing some ''prāyaścitta'' system, then how did he take the reigns of ruling over the kingdom?" That was his inquiry, Śaunaka Ṛṣi. Actually, the ''Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam'' was first of all, in the beginning . . . the first beginning of ''Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam'' was in front of Mahārāja Parīkṣit. Śukadeva Gosvāmī explained, and Sūta Gosvāmī was in that meeting also. So he learned explanation of ''Bhāgavatam'' from Śukadeva Gosvāmī. This is called ''paramparā'' system.

Now, generally the professional reciters of ''Bhāgavatam'', they do not follow the ''paramparā'' system. They make business. Just like we are reading ''Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam'', we are discussing about the warfares; the professionals, they will go immediately to ''rāsa-līlā,'' as if these things are not necessary. Anyone who hears ''Bhāgavatam'' from these professional, they do not know what are the other subject matter in ''Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.'' Because they haven't got the chance to hear. They do not discuss. Whenever there is recitation of ''Bhāgavatam'', it means they are discussing some ''rāsa-līlā.'' Because the ''rāsa-līlā'' is very palatable to the rascals.

They think that Kṛṣṇa is ordinary young boy, and the gopīs are young girls, and as they read novel and dramas, one man, one woman, their activities, they think Bhāgavata is like that. They think . . . ''arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matiḥ'' (Padma Purāṇa). They think like that. The gopīs . . . the ''Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam'', the pastimes of Kṛṣṇa with the gopīs, it is most confidential part of ''Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.'' It is to be relished by the liberated soul, not these ordinary persons who have got sex attraction. They are unfit for hearing ''Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, rāsa-līlā.'' Unfit.

So unfortunately, these professional reciters, they do not begin ''Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam'' from the very beginning, where ''Vedānta''-''sūtra'' is discussed. ''Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Janmādy asya yataḥ'' ([[SB 1.1.1|SB 1.1.1]]). So ''Bhāgavata'' begins with this word of ''Vedānta''-''sūtra, janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ''. So it is the . . . in the beginning, ''Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam'' is the explanation of the ''Vedānta''-''sūtra''. Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī has recommended, therefore, one should learn ''Bhāgavatam'' from a person who knows ''Vedānta''-''sūtra. Śruta-gṛhītayā, bhaktyā śruta-gṛhītayā. Bhakti'' should be generated ''śruta''-''gṛhītayā'', by studying ''Vedānta''-''sūtra. Bhakti'' is not sentiment. ''Bhakti'' is the transcendental science.

Therefore in the ''Bhagavad-gītā'' it is said, ''jñānī viśiṣyate.'' You should be in full knowledge what is Kṛṣṇa, not that accepting Kṛṣṇa as something fictitious. Even big, big scholars—Dr. Radhakrishnan, Gandhi—they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. How they can understand? It is not understandable by the fools and rascals.

:''manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu''
:''kaścid yatati siddhaye''
:''yatatām api siddhānāṁ''
:''kaścin vetti māṁ tattvataḥ''
:([[BG 7.3 (1972)|BG 7.3]])

So understand Kṛṣṇa is not so easy thing. ''Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu''. Out of many millions of persons, all rascals and fools, animals, what they will understand Kṛṣṇa? Therefore Kṛṣṇa personally says, ''manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye. Siddhi. Siddhi'' means perfection. All over the world we are touring, all full of rascals and fools. Nobody is trying to make his life perfect. What is that perfection? ''Paramāṁ siddhim.'' That perfection is:

:''mām upetya kaunteya''
:''duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam''
:''nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ''
:''saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ''
:([[BG 8.15 (1972)|BG 8.15]])

To go back to home, back to Godhead, that is the highest perfection of life. Nobody knows what is Godhead. Nobody knows how to go back to Him. So to understand Kṛṣṇa and to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, it is not very easy thing. Very, very difficult. But Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, ''mahā-vadānyāvatāra'', He has distributed this Kṛṣṇa science and love of Kṛṣṇa in such a easy way that by His mercy even a most rude person can also understand, if He takes the mercy of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

So Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja was a ''kṛṣṇa-bhakta'', and therefore, he is explained, he is ''dharma-bhṛtāṁ variṣṭhaḥ'', the most foremost personality, because he knows . . . He agreed to fight with his cousin-brothers because Kṛṣṇa wanted. Kṛṣṇa, when Arjuna said: "My dear Kṛṣṇa, there is no need of fighting. Because the other side, they are my brothers, nephews, I better prefer to give them the kingdom. I shall beg and live, but I don't want to fight with my brother," so immediately Kṛṣṇa condemned it, ''kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam'': "What nonsense you are speaking? You must fight." Then still he was unwilling to fight. Therefore the whole ''Bhagavad-gītā'' was spoken to him. And after explaining ''Bhagavad-gītā'', He inquired from Arjuna, "Whether you are now determined to fight?" ''Yathecchasi tathā kuru'' ([[BG 18.63 (1972)|BG 18.63]]). This liberty was given to Arjuna: "I have explained to you everything. Now whatever you like, you can do."

So Kṛṣṇa does not force anyone to become ''kṛṣṇa-bhakta,'' but He gives the chance. He explains everything that, "If you become ''kṛṣṇa-bhakta'', or surrendered soul, then you will be happy. Otherwise you will not be happy." This is Kṛṣṇa. Kuru. He says, ''sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja'' ([[BG 18.66 (1972)|BG 18.66]]). He does not force. Now it is our choice, whether we shall surrender to Kṛṣṇa or not. These are the instruction of ''Bhagavad-gītā'' and ''Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam'', that one's ultimate goal of life is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That is the ultimate goal of life.

But they do not know it. ''Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum'' ([[SB 7.5.31|SB 7.5.31]]). They do not know. They think for some worldly happiness and go to some demigods . . . that is condemned in the ''Bhagavad-gītā'': ''kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajante anya-devatāḥ'' ([[BG 7.20 (1972)|BG 7.20]]). They have lost their intelligence, those who go to worship other demigods for some paltry benefit, temporary benefit. ''Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām'' ([[BG 7.23 (1972)|BG 7.23]]). Those who are . . . brain substance is not very much in good quantity . . . brain substance, instead of brain substance, there is cow dung. Such people go to worship the other demigods. There is no necessity. There is no necessity.

Of course, we do not show any disrespect to any demigods. We offer all respect. But we do not accept that Kṛṣṇa and all other demigods are on the same level, as the Māyāvādī says that, "Either you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa ''mantra'' or chant 'Durgā Durgā,' 'Kālī Kālī,' it is the same." This is rascaldom. This is rascaldom. ''Harer nāma. Śāstra'' says, ''harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam. Śāstra'' does not say that "You chant this name, that name, any dog's name, cat's name, and it is all right." ''Śāstra'' does not say. ''Śāstra'' says:

:''harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam''
:''kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā''
:([[CC Adi 17.21|CC Adi 17.21]])

So ''yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ na sa siddhim avāpnoti'' ([[BG 16.23 (1972)|BG 16.23]]): "Anyone who avoids or disregards the injunction of the ''śāstras'' and acts whimsically, he will never get perfection." ''Na sukhaṁ na parāṁ gatim.'' Therefore our principle is, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we strictly follow Kṛṣṇa. Our leader is Kṛṣṇa. ''Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām'' (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13).

So everyone requires a leader. I have talked many times that "Leader must be followed." When I was talking with Professor Kotovsky in Moscow, I asked him, "Where is the difference between your philosophy and our philosophy? You are following Lenin. We are following Kṛṣṇa. So we have to follow one leader. You cannot avoid it." So he was silent. He could not reply.

So to become perfect, to achieve perfection, one has to follow a leader. So why should we follow the misleaders, the rascal leaders? Let us follow the perfect leader, Kṛṣṇa, and become perfect.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

'''Devotees:''' ''Haribol'' . . . (cut) (end)

761220 - Conversation - Bombay

2024-02-07T04:58:15Z

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771103 - Conversation D - Vrndavana

2024-02-07T04:58:15Z

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760310 - Morning Walk - Mayapur

2024-02-07T04:58:12Z

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[[Category:1976 - Morning Walks]]
[[Category:1976 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1976 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1976-03 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Morning Walks - India]]
[[Category:Morning Walks - India, Mayapur]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Mayapur]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Hindi Snippets]]
[[Category:1976 - New Audio - Released in November 2013]]
[[Category:Audio Files 20.01 to 30.00 Minutes]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Morning Walks - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Morning Walks - by Date|Morning Walks by Date]], [[:Category:1976 - Morning Walks|1976]]'''</div>
{{RandomImage}}


<div class="center">
[[Vanipedia:760310b - Morning Walk - Srila Prabhupada Speaks a Nectar Drop in Mayapur|'''  <big>Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this lecture'''</big>]]</div>


<div class="code">760310MW-MAYAPUR - March 10, 1976 - 23.21 Minutes</div>

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1976/760310MW-MAYAPUR_mono.mp3</mp3player>

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . telling that so much stricture on the ''gṛhasthas'' may cause some disturbance. Eh?

'''Madhudviṣa:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So I think the ''gṛhastha'' themselves should form a small committee and define what they will do, instead of forcing something, because in this age, nobody can follow strictly all the stricture in the ''śāstras''.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' I don't think that we formulated anything for them to do.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Any of our resolutions, it doesn't say anything about what they should do. It simply says what should . . . how our Society should be run, our temples. It doesn't state anything about how the ''gṛhasthas'' should live.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No . . . what? What was your point . . .?

'''Madhudviṣa:''' Well, last evening we were saying that sex life according to the regulative principles means sex life only when the ''guru'' tells the ''gṛhastha'' to have sex life. And what I said last night is that if that is the case, then there would be no more ''gṛhasthas'' in the Society. They will not . . . (laughs) They will not become ''gṛhasthas''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Be practical.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' So that point they can discuss amongst themselves, but that doesn't have anything to do with our resolutions. Right?

'''Devotee:''' Yeah. This is the idea.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' In other words, our resolutions are on another point, that as far as when they . . . when they have sex life and when they don't, they should have a committee and they can decide that. But . . . resolutions we passed had nothing to do with that. Our resolutions had to do with if someone is not to be supported by the movement, things like this. Those things are a different matter. The actual way the ''gṛhasthas'' should live, that is their . . . they should decide that by committee.

'''Yaṣodānandana:''' There now should be a proposition that before they enter the ''gṛhastha āśrama'', they should have a means of supporting themselves besides the living off the Society.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' That was said . . .

'''Yaṣodānandana:''' They would be serious before . . .

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Those things, the GBC made a resolution.

'''Madhudviṣa:''' The resolutions that we made were wrong in that regard.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Oh?

'''Madhudviṣa:''' The resolutions that we made were wrong. Prabhupāda rectified us.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' In what regard?

'''Madhudviṣa:''' We made a resolution that if a householder gets married, then he has to take care of his wife for the rest of his life till he takes ''sannyāsa''.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yeah, Prabhupāda corrected that.

'''Madhudviṣa:''' Yeah. So that resolution was wrong. And also the resolution about the women and the children coming to the temple, not accepting them, that was also wrong.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' So now what's the point?

'''Madhudviṣa:''' So now they're rectified.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' So now what is the point?

'''Madhudviṣa:''' I'm just saying that we should have a more practical understanding of this, of our attitude towards the whole situation.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' That's why Prabhupāda corrected us.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So I think it may be further decided. Make a small committee of three or four ''gṛhasthas'', and you define how you live.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Well, what about their relationship with the Society? This point was to . . . I don't understand why that is being avoided. In other words, how they should live, that they should have a committee for, but the fact that the Society cannot support them, that is not for them to decide. That is for the GBC to decide. That is my point.

'''Yaṣodānandana:''' I think that point, that's clear.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' As far as their living conditions, so let them have a committee.

'''Madhudviṣa:''' Yeah. I agree with that.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' All right. Then there's no disagreement. As long as you say we should not disclaim all of our resolutions.

'''Madhudviṣa:''' No, no, no.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Oh, then it's all right.

'''Jayapatāka:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda is so merciful that if it comes to a point where it means that a person is not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness or in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, I think Prabhupāda'd rather support them and let them be Kṛṣṇa conscious. That's why you have to see whether they stay in the Society.

'''Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:''' Dragging us back to Godhead.

'''Prabhupāda:''' When this ''paṇḍāl'' is going to be filled up?

'''Bhavānanda:''' The exhibits should be arriving today with the devotees, Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Who are these men?

'''Bhavānanda:''' They are the ''paṇḍāl'' workers.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Paṇḍāl'' work . . . (break) Always, what is called . . .? Communism. They say, whole world, "We are Communists," "We are capitalists," "We are socialists," and "We are nonviolent," "We are violent."

'''Madhudviṣa:''' Dualism.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Madhudviṣa:''' Dualism?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Not dualism. How many ''isms'', nobody knows. But . . . what is called? Faction. Faction. Everyone is divided from the other.

'''Madhudviṣa:''' Yeah.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So we should not bring that attitude in our Society. That is my request.

'''Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:''' Envious. They're all envious.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That you should not do. And that unity is possible with . . . only when harer nāma ([[CC Adi 17.21|CC Adi 17.21]]) is there constantly. Otherwise, it will be factional. What do you call? Factional is the right word?

'''Haṁsadūta:''' Yes, yes. Factional.

'''Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:''' What about the distinction between the enjoying spirit and the renouncing spirit?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:''' For example, there is, as we have been discussing, between the ''brahmacārīs'' and the ''gṛhasthas'' . . . the ''brahmacārīs'' have this tendency—at least, this is the attitude—towards renunciation. And so far we can see, a ''brahmacārī'' who gives up his ''brahmacārī'' life means he's more inclined towards the enjoying spirit, at least to some extent. So how do we deal with this situation?

'''Prabhupāda:''' You can . . . if you want to enjoy, who can stop you?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' But we cannot . . . we cannot support it. We cannot support his enjoyment. That he should take on his own self to do.

'''Prabhupāda:''' They . . . according to different position and attitude, the four āśramas are there: ''brahmacārī'', ''gṛhastha'', ''vānaprastha'' and ''sannyāsa''. This means that everyone is not on the equal platform. Different platform. But the whole idea is how to give up the propensity of enjoyment. That is wanted.

'''Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:''' We find in the ''Śrīmad Bhāgavatam'' that Śukadeva Gosvāmī would approach the householders in the morning just so long as to give them a little bit of spiritual knowledge, and he would accept the offering of some milk. So the ''sannyāsīs'' and renunciates, generally, they wouldn't very much relish the association of householders because of this enjoying spirit and the association that it entails. So we're finding also within our Society that those who are inclined towards remaining celibate, they're finding the association of persons even within our movement who have this enjoying spirit to be somewhat detrimental to their own spiritual life.

'''Guru-kṛpā:''' ''Gṛhe thāko vanete thāko'' . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then? What is your proposal? They should go away?

'''Madhudviṣa:''' Unless there is association, then they will never become purified.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Who says they won't asso . . .? What is this discussion? This is not . . .

'''Madhudviṣa:''' It's not a resolution.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' This is not a good discussion either.

'''Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:''' No, but this is basically the problem.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' No, it's not the problem, because everyone comes together in a temple for ''kīrtana'', for lectures, for ''prasādam''. These things are common activities. There's no question that we should not have common activities between all the ''āśramas''. These are the common ac . . . but for living, there must be separate arrangement.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Now, even in the temple, you were complaining, the husband and wife were talking.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes. That's living. That means living. That is not . . . they're not talking ''Śrīmad Bhāgavatam''. (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' That . . .

'''Bhavānanda:''' Separate woman's house, separate man's house.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is our Indian system. They have got separate house for men, separate house for women, separate house for kitchen, separate house for toilet.

'''Bhavānanda:''' Very nice. Compound.

'''Prabhupāda:''' In Calcutta, we have seen our big, big Mullik family, separate house.

'''Bhavānanda:''' One ''brāhmaṇa'' village, Sharmapur, I went to, they all lived like that. They had five houses in a compound.

'''Prabhupāda:''' (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. A woman's house, nobody can go. ''Bahir bāri bhitara bāri. Bāhir bāri. Bāhir.'' Who can understand Hindi?

'''Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:''' ''Bāhir?'' "Outside," isn't it?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. ''Bāhir bāri. Bhitar bāri''. Then ''pūjār bāri. Rāmnā bāri''.

'''Jayapatāka:''' Kitchen.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah, kitchen. Not that within the apartment, all ''bāris''. This is European invention.

'''Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:''' ''Bāri''?

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Bāri'' means house. In Gujarat they say ''wādi. Wādi.''

'''Bhāgavata:''' ''Wādi, bhajan wādi''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' It is the same thing, ''bāri''. In Maharashtra also they say.

'''Bhāgavata:''' About attraction and aversion . . . there's . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm? Attraction?

'''Bhāgavata:''' . . . a point about attraction and aversion, that there's a complaint that sometimes there's too much aversion on the part of the ''brahmacārīs''. But isn't that not a quality, to a point a ''brahmacārī'' should have a healthy contempt for sense gratification?

'''Prabhupāda:''' I do not follow.

'''Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:''' He's saying that sometimes the ''brahmacārīs'', even the ''sannyāsīs'', they may have a very strong aversion towards association with women and/or householder life, things of this nature. And sometimes the ''gṛhasthas'' will criticize the ''sannyāsīs'' and ''brahmacārīs'' that, "This is fanaticism," or it's, to the other end, "It's just as bad as the enjoying spirit, because you're meditating on the same thing, but only you're averse to it." So what is the . . .? Bhāgavata dāsa's question is, "What is the condition?" Is it better to be neutral or to be averse?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Neutral.

'''Prabhupāda:''' (chuckles) These are all fanaticism. Real unity is in advancing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. ''Kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva'' . . . ([[CC Adi 17.21|CC Adi 17.21]]). In Kali-yuga, you cannot strictly follow, neither I can strictly follow. If I criticize you, if you criticize me, then we go far away from our real life of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

'''Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:''' So is it correct to say that if we're not Kṛṣṇa conscious, then if it's not the ''gṛhastha'' problem, it would be some other problem?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:''' We'll find something or another to absorb our time with besides Kṛṣṇa.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, you should always remember that either ''gṛhastha'' or ''brahmacārī'' or ''sannyāsī'', nobody can strictly follow all the rules and regulations of them. In the Kali-yuga it is not possible. So if I find simply fault with you, and if you find fault with me, then it will be factional, and our real business will be hampered. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended that ''hari-nāma'', chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa ''mantra'', should be very rigidly performed, which is common for everyone: ''gṛhastha'', ''vānaprastha'' or ''sannyāsī''. They should always chant Hare Kṛṣṇa ''mantra''. Then everything will be adjusted. Otherwise it is impossible to advance. We shall be complicated with the details only. This is called ''niyamāgrahaḥ''. I think I have explained.

'''Madhudviṣa:''' In the ''Nectar of Instruction''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Niyamagrahaḥ'' is not good. ''Niyama'' means regulative principles. And ''niyama-āgrahaḥ'' is ''niyamāgrahaḥ''. ''Āgrahaḥ'' means not to accept. Hmm? And niyama-āgraha. Āgraha means only eager to follow the regulative principles, but no advancement spiritually. Both of them are called niyamāgrahaḥ. So the basic principle is that ''niyamāgrahaḥ'' is not recommended. The real business is that if we advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, simple method, chanting twenty-four hours, ''kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ'' ([[CC Adi 17.31|CC Adi 17.31]]), then things will be automatically adjusted. You cannot find in Kali-yuga everything is being done very correctly, to the point. That is very difficult. Just like our poet, Allen Ginsberg. He was always accusing me, "Swāmījī, you are very conservative and strict." Actually, I told him that, "I am never strict, neither I am conservative. If I become conservative, then I cannot live here for a moment. (laughs) So I'm not at all conservative." (laughter) I was cooking, and I saw in the . . . what is called, refrigerator of Yeargen, Yeargon? What is his . . .?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yeah. Jergen. That boy you were staying with.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah, ah! I saw he kept some pieces of meat for his cat. So still, I kept my things in that refrigerator. What can be done? I had no place at that time. ''Jaya''. (break) . . . will be little earlier?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Hmm. The walk should be earlier.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Quarter to six. And class beginning quarter to seven. Because the sun is rising earlier.

'''Madhudviṣa:''' It's getting warmer.

'''Prabhupāda:''' (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. The foodstuff is supplied very nice.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Now it's very nice.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. So this should be maintained. (aside) Thank you very much.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Sufficient, ample, and very tasteful . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' . . . nutritious. This Shantilal is very much accustomed to cooking for devotees, because when Gargamuni was in Calcutta for nearly two years, he was the chief cook there. So he knows just how to, how not to . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' So he cannot give an equal good cook here?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Well, maybe he will be kept here.

'''Bhavānanda:''' He's staying.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' I think, personally, he should . . .

'''Guru-kṛpā:''' He's coming on the buses with Gargamuni.

'''Devotee:''' He wants to go on the buses.

'''Bhavānanda:''' He's going . . . (laughs)

'''Prabhupāda:''' (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Variety means beauty. (break)

'''Jayapatāka:''' We were going to bring from New York, I think.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Madhudviṣa Mahārāja will bring next year. Is it very expensive?

'''Guru-kṛpā:''' No, it's just . . .

'''Madhudviṣa:''' No, but the computer. You need one computer to run it.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. So that is very costly.

'''Jayapatāka:''' Computers are very cheap nowadays.

'''Madhudviṣa:''' Yeah, it's very expensive. Actually, the electricity would be very expensive, the bill, which would probably be paid by Mahatva. (laughs)

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, if it is very expensive, don't do it.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Of course, an escalator is also expensive. If we're going to worry about expense, then . . . I think we should wait until we get that big building, the temple, because then, if you put it up there, it can be seen . . .

'''Madhudviṣa:''' In Calcutta.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Even in Calcutta. Whereas this is not very high.

'''Madhudviṣa:''' (indistinct) . . . things are cheaper now. (break)

'''Indian devotee (1):''' . . . ignorance, ignorance.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, those who are inclined, they can become. ''Jñānam vijñānam āstikyam'' ([[BG 18.42 (1972)|BG 18.42]]).

'''Indian devotee (1):''' ''Brahma karma'' . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' So To brahman sabha ka . . . hone se . . . (So the presence of brahman society . . .) . . . ''śūdra-paricaryātmākaṁ kāryam'' ([[BG 18.44 (1972)|BG 18.44]]). They should be engaged in serving. But sva-karmana tam abhyarcya ([[BG 18.46 (1972)|BG 18.46]]). Everyone should be engaged in the service of the Lord. That is perfection.

'''Indian devotee (1):''' ''Abhyāse samārtho 'si mat-karma-paramo bhava'' ([[BG 12.10 (1972)|BG 12.10]]). So . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah. ''Mat karma paramo'' . . . we have got service for everyone. Sab koi likhne-padhne ke liye yougya nahi hai ye jo. (Everyone is not capable of reading and writing.) So this The modern civilization is everyone is sent for academic education. That is mistake, waste of time.

'''Indian devotee (1):''' Kintu balak hone ke karan buddhi me thoda kamzori to samajh nahi pata kya kidhar le jaye. (But because he is a child and has less intelligence, he does not understand where to take these.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Vo machine. (That machine.) (break) (end)

770410 - Conversation B - Bombay

2024-02-07T04:58:12Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"

[[Category:1977 - Conversations]]
[[Category:1977 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1977 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1977-04 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Conversations - India]]
[[Category:Conversations - India, Bombay]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Bombay]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Hindi Snippets]]
[[Category:Audio Files 60.01 to 90.00 Minutes]]
[[Category:1977 - New Audio - Released in July 2012]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Conversations - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Conversations - by Date|Conversations by Date]], [[:Category:1977 - Conversations|1977]]'''</div>
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<div class="code">770410R2-BOMBAY - April 10, 1977 - 61:40 Minutes</div>

(Conversation about Harijanas)

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1977/770410R2-BOMBAY.mp3</mp3player>

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Photo?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Which photograph it is?

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Dr. Ambedkar. The "One Hundred Million Harijanas Pick a New Messiah."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Read that whole thing.

'''Bhakti-caru:''' "As the nation observes this week the death anniversary of Dr. Ambedkar, it behooves our news research to face a challenge 'for the plight of this downtrodden community.'" (break) "The story of the vast quantity of ''harijanas'' in this ancient and illustrious land is a miserable story of shame and sorrow. Harassment and humiliation, operation and separation, poverty and pity. The ''harijana'' problems is not merely a social or religious or economic or political one. It is a complex problem involving many factors. It is, however, the most baffling national problem, posing a great challenge to the leaders, rulers and people of India."

'''Prabhupāda:''' On the whole—you read this article—why not say that "We can lead you to the highest perfection of cultural, social, religion"? It will be . . .

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' You want us to write a letter to the editor?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Not editor. The person who is the leader. Means the ''harijana'' movement. They are feeling frustration. Now we can give them the light.

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Actually it was written by one professor, K.H.A. Parthan.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So just write to him. On the basis of:

:''māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya''
:''ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ''
:''striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās''
:''te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim''
:([[BG 9.32 (1972)|BG 9.32]])

"According to ''Bhagavad-gītā'', we can lead you and make your life successful."

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' One problem I see—of course, I haven't read the article in any detail—but generally they very much oppose—of course, unrightly so—they very much oppose the delineation of "''śūdra''." When we . . . they are ''śūdras'', these ''harijanas'', but . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' But it doesn't matter. We shall elevate them to go back to home, back to Godhead. Whatever he may be. ''Striyo vaiśyas tathā śūdrāḥ'' ([[BG 9.32 (1972)|BG 9.32]]). ''Kiṁ punar brāhmaṇāḥ puṇyā bhaktā rājarṣayaḥ'' ([[BG 9.33 (1972)|BG 9.33]]). Simply by denying that, "I am not ''śūdra''," that will not help. But they must be elevated to the standard of ''brāhmaṇa''. That we will talk later on. But we have to convince that, "This world movement is going on to make the human society to the highest perfection of life. If you join, we can help you." To the perfection of life, on the basis of ''Bhagavad-gītā''. There is no difficulty. That we can do. If you really want, there is a . . .

'''Bhakti-caru:''' They have got unions also, ''harijanas''. How to approach the unions?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Bhakti-caru:''' They have their unions. How can we approach the union and talk to the leaders?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Well, address him, that Dr . . . we are actually doing all over the world. Why not here?

'''Bhakti-caru:''' But the thing is Dr. Ambedkar is dead now. He was the leader of the ''harijanas''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Whoever may be, but they could not do anything. Neither they can do. They do not know how to elevate them. We know that. We can help. And we are actually doing it. The idea is they are feeling frustration for want of leader. We are prepared to guide them to the highest perfection of life. (pause) The defect was Gandhi started this ''harijana'' movement, keeping them where they are, and at the same time changing by rubber stamp, "''harijana''." That must be failure.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yeah. Unless you change the inner make-up of a man, he won't improve. They are thinking that by spending money, by giving a better home, by these things they'll improve. But we have practically seen in Madras on the beach, these ''harijanas'' were given some of the better houses, and they immediately they did one of two things: either they rented the house to someone else and kept living on the street, which is by their nature, or else they turned the house into the street.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hell.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Like hell. So unless you actually reform a person, just by artificially giving him money or if you stamp approval, it won't change anything. You have to change him. And they have no plan for that.

'''Prabhupāda:''' They do not know that.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' They spend 3,100 crores on the ''harijanas''. Can you imagine if they had given you that money, Śrīla Prabhupāda, what you could have done with it?

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Over ninety percent of the money has gone to the . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Now ''harijana'', he has . . . Gandhi has degraded the name of ''harijana'' to such a position that if somebody comes and if he says: "I am ''harijana''," immediately we shall hate him.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Hmm. We hate him.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Because we know there is ''camar bhangi''; he has changed the name, "''harijana''."

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' That is another thing that we should point out in our letter, that what is the actual meaning of ''harijana''? "One who serves Hari, or Kṛṣṇa."

'''Prabhupāda:''' One who has been elevated to the position of associate of Hari. That has to be done. Then it will be first class. That we can do. Nobody can do.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' What is the translation for the word ''jana''?

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Jana'' means person. ''Hari'' means the Lord. A government man. Hari's man. Like Nārada.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Nārada Muni is a ''harijana''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. All devotees.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yeah. He is well known. (break) (reading) "The only remedy lies in the ending of their subservience to the higher castes and securing for them economic independence. But according to the ''Bhāgavatam'', a ''śūdra'' can never be given economic independence." If they want economic independence, they should elevate themselves to the higher caste. As long as there . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' It will not become higher caste. They do not know. Economic independence, who is checking now? There is no such check all over the world. Just like in Bombay. Everyone can do business. So why they cannot do?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Because they are not intelligent enough.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That means they have no intelligence.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' That means they are ''śūdra''. And if someone is a ''śūdra'', how can you let him have his own money?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Whatever it may be, everything requires intelligence. If you haven't got that standard of intelligence, how you can do it? Nowadays, suppose if you do some business, is there a hindrance that "You are low class, you cannot do this business"? Neither the government nor the society. You can do it. Why you cannot do it? Just like in Bengal, the Marwaris are rich and Bengalis are . . . their land, their country, and they're naturalized. And the Marwaris have big, large . . . (indistinct) . . . it is your incapability. Why don't you admit that?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Look at this question, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It says "Who are these ''harijanas''? What is their origin? What sins did they commit?"

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then you answer that.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yeah, we can answer these questions. Yes, they did commit sins. Therefore they are in this position.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Don't say . . . (indistinct) . . . ''harijana'' means the person associated with God.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' But these men are . . . I mean their position . . . everyone is getting what he deserves. So if they are in a downtrodden . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. That is ''prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi'' ([[BG 3.27 (1972)|BG 3.27]]). ''Sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya'' ([[BG 13.22 (1972)|BG 13.22]]). This is the science.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes. If they are in a downtrodden condition, it's due to their past activities.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Now you can rectify it.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Right, it can be reversed.

'''Prabhupāda:''' It is not that you shall remain . . . then, ''māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ'' ([[BG 9.32 (1972)|BG 9.32]]). If you accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even you are born in low-grade caste or family, you can be elevated. That is to be done. What is done is done. Now we can elevate from this position. That is our capacity.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' (reading) "There are no authentic answers to these questions."

'''Prabhupāda:''' There is. ''Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya'' ([[BG 3.27 (1972)|BG 3.27]]). Read ''Bhagavad-gītā''. ''Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya''. Here is authentic answer. Why he's giving that . . .? That means you are not in proper leadership. If you . . . just explain that if you infect cholera disease, germ, you must suffer. That is nature's law. Similarly, ''kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu''. Now you can change the ''kāraṇa'', the cause. ''Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ'' ([[BG 9.32 (1972)|BG 9.32]]). And you can neutralize. ''Māṁ ca avyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena yaḥ''. Quote this. Everything is there in ''Bhagavad-gītā''.

:''avyabhicāreṇa''
:''bhakti-yogena ya sevate''
:''sa guṇān samatītyaitān''
:''brahma-bhūyāya kalpate''
:([[BG 14.26 (1972)|BG 14.26]])

''Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati'' ([[BG 18.54 (1972)|BG 18.54]]). Everything is there.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' This would be a good . . . (break)

'''Indian devotee:''' Theek hai kal ki tarah? (Is it okay like yesterday?)

'''Prabhupada:''' Ye to thanda ho gaya hai. (This has become cold.)

'''Indian man:''' Isko garam kar ke le aaun? (Shall I heat it up and bring it?)

'''Prabhupada:''' Kaise garam karega? (How will you heat it up?)

'''Indian man:''' Tava par. (On the pan.)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Did he cook these here today?

'''Indian devotee:''' No, he didn't.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' If he cooks here, it will be hot. All of these things were cooked there and brought here, so they become a little cold.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, it was already prepared. You bring little salt. (break) They do not know "Why I am in downtrodden condition?" The answer is there: ''kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya'' ([[BG 13.22 (1972)|BG 13.22]]).

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Says, "They desire freedom from the age-old shackles of superstition . . ."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Where is the shackle, age-old shackles? Where is the shackle?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' There is nothing keeping them down but their own inability.

'''Prabhupāda:''' You are keeping yourself in shackle. If you want to be educated . . . there was also . . . Dr. Ambedkar, he belonged to the ''harijana''. How he became a law member? Where is the shackle?

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Even Jagjivan Ram is there.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Where is the shackle?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yeah, how did he become?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Kal unko idhar le aana. haan, jo banaya hai wo dekhe. Wo to garam khane ko bhi milega . . . isiliye mai bheja, to kya aap pehle banate the. (Bring them here tomorrow, yes. Let them see what they have made. I will get to eat warm dishes . . . that is why I sent, were you preparing earlier?)

'''Indian man:''' Doosra garam kar ke le aaun? (Shall I heat it up and bring it?)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' (reading) "According to the constitutional directives, ''harijanas'' should account for twenty percent of the posts in the government service." But first of all they should be qualified. We can use the example that if your father is a high-court justice, does it make you a high-court justice?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' First you have to be qualified.

'''Prabhupāda:''' This is no plea, that there is checking because he is born in a low-grade family, there is no educational facilities. "You cannot do it," say that, "for want of culture."

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' So then they quote Dr. Ambedkar saying, "We will attain self-elevation only if we learn self-help, regain self-respect, and gain self-knowledge." But what is the self, they don't know.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That we can teach.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' He said, "The surest way for our salvation lies in higher education."

'''Prabhupāda:''' So who forbids? Is there any restriction, that? (break)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' It says here, "Here are some measures to be implemented. The caste system should be abolished." They are always trying to abolish the caste system.

'''Prabhupāda:''' The caste system . . . where is the hindrance in the caste system? If you want to become a ''brāhmaṇa'', you can become a ''brāhmaṇa''. Why it should be abolished?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Incorrect understanding of it should be abolished.

'''Prabhupāda:''' "This is the definition of becoming a ''brāhmaṇa''." Give this.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' ''Śamaḥ damaḥ kṣamā śaucam''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So you have to learn it, how you can become a ''brāhmaṇa''.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Just like if a man has a disease, just by saying he doesn't have the disease, you can't change the fact that he is diseased. If someone actually is in a certain position, you can't . . . the way to change it is by actually changing him, not by simply saying: "Now you're okay."

'''Prabhupāda:''' These are the symptoms of becoming a ''brāhmaṇa''. You develop these symptoms. Who checks you? Practically we are doing all over the world. There is no such thing.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' All the measures . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Caste system should not be abolished, but it must be properly established. That is wanted. If you have got any defect in the eye, not that the eye should be plucked out. But it should be treated and brought into the normal condition. That is wanted. That we admit. You want to become ''brāhmaṇa'' without brahminical qualification. Not only you, everyone wants.

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Actually, you told Professor Kotovsky that this caste system is existing everywhere, in every society in the world.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, yes. In the body there is caste system. The head is the ''brāhmaṇa'', the hand is the kṣatriya, the belly is the ''vaiśya'' and the leg is the ''śūdra''. Everything head, that will not help. There must be leg also. But it must be conducted under the guidance of the head. Then it is all right. If the head is not there and leg is utilized for jumping, that is monkey's business. The leg must work according to the dictation of the head. The hand must work according to the dictation of the head. "The caste system should be abolished." What is the caste system? There is no caste system. Everyone is ''śūdra''. Who is a ''brāhmaṇa'' now, qualified, except one or two in our camp?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' The article ends by saying: "Let ''harijanas'' be their own pathfinders, and let them lead themselves from darkness to light, from pain to pleasure."

'''Prabhupāda:''' That you do not know. Otherwise you would have done it.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' "And from a living hell to tranquillity and joy of life."

'''Prabhupāda:''' You do not know how to do it. Otherwise you had done it. You do not know the way. We can teach you. So cooperate with us, we shall fulfill your ambition. That's all right.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' I'll have to work on this. It will take a little time to write nicely.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. No, no.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' There is no rush, I think, because . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' We are willing to help them. And we are the only right person who can help them.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' That's for sure.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Nobody knows. If he is serious, let him come and talk with us.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Then we can end the letter to him like that. (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . capture the ideas.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Oh, yeah, very much.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Now explain it nicely.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' All right.

'''Prabhupāda:''' We can actually help them. Not by imagination, but practical application. And are doing all over the world. (break) In '68 I was alone. And I had to struggle very, very hard, alone. Therefore I got heart attack in 1967. Then that heart attack and regress continued for two years. Whatever is done, it is done from 1969. Before that, I was simply alone struggling to start this mission. (pause) Before that, I came to Bombay.

'''Indian man:''' In '69?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no.

'''Indian man:''' '70?

'''Prabhupāda:''' '64. I stayed at Morarji's Andheri . . .

'''Indian man:''' Andheri House.

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . colony for his employees.

'''Indian man:''' Scindia Steamship.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, colony. I stayed there. Sometimes I stayed with one gentleman in Churchgate. He is a banker, Sindhi gentleman. In '65, Sumati Morarji gave me that ticket.

'''Indian man:''' You went away then, I think.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. (pause) This is our old system. When one cannot eat, even in invitation, the whole thing, he can take away the balance for his family. Canda-walla. Especially the ''brāhmaṇas''. They will sit down and take everything, and . . .

'''Indian man:''' (laughing) Give to their family.

'''Prabhupāda:''' People will give more, because he will take to the family.

'''Indian man:''' Thank you very much.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Jaya''. Thank you. Hare Kṛṣṇa. ''Jaya''. (break)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes, it's very impressive. He has a very charming personality.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And he can talk very nicely.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' On any subject.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And always smiling. Even if you irritate him, he will smile.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' That's a fact.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sometimes I have said so many strong words. That is my habit. But he is still very humble and meek. I never expected that he would call, reply me . . . (indistinct)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Sometimes in Delhi I would go with him to some minister or something, and he would tell some story. I thought, "Why is he doing this story? He has no sense."

'''Prabhupāda:''' He is known to the ambassador, American ambassador.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yeah. He took me there once. He knew him pretty well. But every time he would tell these stories.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Keath, Mr. Keath?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Keating, Kenneth Keating.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So he was very friendly with him. He used to talk in his personal room. He made friends with him. His girlfriend . . . (laughs) And she offered herself, "Please come in our car."

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Oh, Mr. Keating's girlfriend, the ambassador's girlfriend.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. Though . . . (indistinct) . . . old, but still, he's to be sent to help us.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes. Yeah, you can only send Guru dāsa on these kind of special missions. He likes it very much also.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, whole Vṛndāvana likes him. Nobody speaks against him.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yeah, he always discusses a lot of ''kṛṣṇa-kathā''. He likes to talk about Kṛṣṇa. He is going to Poland.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. He speaks in the university very nicely.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yeah.

'''Prabhupāda:''' His wife is also nice, but when they are combined together, they become little spoiled. He becomes little lusty. That is his wife's complaint. I got them married in San Francisco. (pause) So you can take another letter to the manager, for the bank, "You take eighty thousand from current account, and twenty thousand is coming from Calcutta. Both together, you make one M.M.D. M.M.D.A."

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' For seven years.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Actually, I've already typed that letter for eighty thousand, so I can add a N.B. that an additional twenty thousand is coming from Calcutta, and as soon as it comes . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, you advise to Bombay, advise him to.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yeah. Should I enclose a copy of the letter to Calcutta also?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. Not that . . . letter written to Calcutta, that copy should be enclosed to the . . .

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yeah, that's what I meant. Actually, that's good, because he'll be eager to follow through to see that the money comes, because he is going to get the benefit of fixing it in his bank. (pause)

'''Prabhupāda:''' If possible we can start a center in Srinagar. If there is opportunity. Many foreigners come?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Many foreigners come.

'''Prabhupāda:''' If we start a center there, it will be very nice. That will be also one of the items of tourist program.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' We can get Dr. Karan Singh's help very easily in Srinagar.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And Raja Sheikh Abdullah has taken our ''Bhagavad-gītā'', so we can invite him to talk.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Who?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sheikh Abdullah, the prime minister there, Kashmir.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Is he a chief minister or prime minister?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Chief minister.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Kashmir is part of India, a province. (pause) Then if you get your health back, in May, that will be very nice. Regarding that tīrtha-yatra, this going in the monsoon, it doesn't seem like a good time. June and July, those are not good months for touring India.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, if we get good response, we can stay a little more.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Maybe we should go with a few . . . with some ''kīrtana'' party. If we see there is a response, then we should . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' If we . . . you get one ''kīrtana'' party if you like.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' It seems like it.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Not immediately.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' First we'll see.

'''Prabhupāda:''' But you can take if you like as many books as possible. As many books, our books.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Our books for showing, carrying with us. One full set. I think the best way for that would be that maybe we'll have ''Kṣīra-cora-gopīnātha'' Prabhu go by train with full set of books, because taking on the plane is very difficult. It will be overweight. But he can go by train. It is not very long. It is about one day, one and a half days complete journey. And then he can take easily a lot of baggage.

'''Prabhupāda:''' He will take from Delhi?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' The train? No, actually he can take from Bombay.

'''Prabhupāda:''' From Bombay to Kashmir direct.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Either direct or through Delhi. The Punjab Mail. I think there is a Punjab Mail.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Punjab Mail goes up to border of Kashmir.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' So something like that. I mean he can . . . we could fix that up.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, as many books you can carry without any difficulty you can take.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' On the plane. Okay. Maybe Guru dāsa should wait there for awhile. If Guru dāsa and I go together as a preaching team, we can conquer anywhere.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Very good.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' I mean, we will bring everyone that you want to see.

'''Prabhupāda:''' If you send a report, tell him that, "You stay; we are coming."

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' We should send a telegram. But he's going to . . . his letter is coming. So I think we should wait for his letter and then reply it. Yeah, because in the afternoons there is no problem for me to go out for a few hours preaching with him, you know, if need be.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Meeting influential . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' If many important people come. If possible they must come.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Do they speak Kashmiri language, the people, or is it Hindi?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hindi they speak. And English everywhere. (pause)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' English. (pause) When we first came to India, everywhere you were going, you would leave some men behind to open a temple. You went to Amritsar with our party, and on the way, that one man met you at the train, and you told Guru dāsa, "Take three men, get off the train and open a center." Wherever you were going, some men you would leave behind. You left Śyāmasundara and myself here, and then you went to Amritsar. So Śyāmasundara, he felt very much left behind.

'''Prabhupāda:''' He's a good boy. I have several times sent him message that "Whatever is done, you come back and live . . . (indistinct) . . . here." He wants to give back something.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' He wants to give back some money?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, because he has spoiled so much money.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' I don't even know if that's his motive anymore.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' I wonder if that's his motive anymore. It's been so long now. The thing is, he was never very able to follow the principles, you know, very strictly. That seems to always be a tell-tale thing. If one cannot follow the principles, then it's only a question of time until he'll . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Fall down.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' . . . fall down. That's one of the reasons that I wanted to have Bali-mardana spend a couple of hours in the evening, so that by turn each of your servants could go to the ''maṅgala-ārati''. 'Cause now none of them are going, because we are all staying up at night. So by having an extra man, we can take turns going to the ''ārati''. ''Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha'', I arranged for him to go to ''ārati'' every morning because he is a brand-new man. So for him it is difficult.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, he should go. (pause)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' One thing I was . . . there is always some smell of onion or garlic here. This place, very often there is smell from cooking of garlic or onion. It is coming from those houses.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Tenant.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' They eat.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' They eat meat.

'''Prabhupāda:''' It is not meat. They are eating garlic. Those Christian tenant, they are eating. And onion everyone eats.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Except for us. Americans are very fond of onions. Yeah. They can eat a whole onion sometimes in one meal. They eat raw. Especially in the salad they will put onion.

'''Prabhupāda:''' For a meat-eater, onion is very sweet.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' For fish-eater?

'''Prabhupāda:''' And fish-eater.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Fish, meats.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Actually, meat has no taste. The onion creates taste.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Dead flesh.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Onion is used. Onions. In India both Hindus and Muslims eat. More than potato, it is said.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Hmm. Potato is king of vegetables.

'''Prabhupāda:''' We have seen many canvassers. (calling like street vendor) "Batata."

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Hmm.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Kanda batata. Everyone has to eat. The Maharastrians, they eat, even the ''brāhmaṇas''. In 1927, I came to Bombay and stayed in the Empire Hindu Hotel. I think it is still there. Very nice hotel. So it is under Maharastrians. Very neat and clean, everything. Gave me onions. "What is this? Onions?" I was surprised. "I don't eat."

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' He must have been surprised that you wouldn't eat it.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' He probably was surprised.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Well, they know . . . mostly Hindus they do not eat. But they are accustomed now. Just like Bengal, fish-eating is no offense.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Even the ''brāhmaṇas''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, yes. ''Brāhmaṇa'', ''gosāis'', so-called ''gurus''.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' When has this all begun, this fish-eating in Bengal? This was always going on?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, yes. Fish, ninety-nine percent people take fish in Bengal. Only few, they do not. When there is some, what is called, ceremony, fish must be there. And fish is available. Now Bengal is divided, East to West. Otherwise, immense fish in Bengal.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' From the east side of Bengal. And rice was coming from there too.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So their staple food is rice and fish.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' East Bengal is very wealthy from that point of view. Rice.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Pakistan was rich only on account of East Bengal. The pān. Practically it supplies pān to all over India. And betel nut.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' That's a place that we have not really . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' And milk also produced in very large quantity. East Bengal is rich in vegetable, milk, fish.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' I think that when we go to Kash . . . (end)

770808 - Conversation - Vrndavana

2024-02-07T04:58:11Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"

[[Category:1977 - Conversations]]
[[Category:1977 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1977 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1977-08 - Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Conversations - India]]
[[Category:Conversations - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Bengali Snippets]]
[[Category:Audio Files 45.01 to 60.00 Minutes]]
[[Category:1977 - New Audio - Released in July 2012]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Conversations - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Conversations - by Date|Conversations by Date]], [[:Category:1977 - Conversations|1977]]'''</div>
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<div class="code">770808R1-VRNDAVAN - August 08, 1977 - 46:47 Minutes</div>

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1977/770808R1-VRNDAVAN.mp3</mp3player>

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' . . . the same man that Ātreya Ṛṣi went and met.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Any sane man will receive our . . .

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes, he's helping us in Karachi to open a temple now. And in Lebanon also . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Everyone is accepting. It is for all, even Communist countries. Everyone is accepting our literature, our attempt. That's a fact. And you do not heard about the report in the South Africa.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' South Africa.

'''Prabhupāda:''' South Africa, the Europeans hate the Indians like anything. Now they're receiving our literature. That means they will now appreciate Indian culture. They'll understand that India has got some substance.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' This is very important point to bring up even with the government in the future, that even these . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Gandhi tried twenty year to get little equal rights. The General Smuts refused. He was failure in South Africa. And then he decided that, "I shall drive these Europeans, Englishmen, from India." He came. That also he could not do. Here also, for thirty years he struggled. He was failure, nonviolent. It is Subhas Bose's INA which drove away these Englishmen. You know that? That Indian Army, what is that, INA, National Army?

'''Yaśomatīnandana:''' Indian National Army

'''Prabhupāda:''' When he organized this National Army, then the Englishmen came to sense that, "Now we cannot rule over." This rascal was going on, nonviolence (laughter) while, "We shall pat them, 'Oh, yes, you are so powerful. Oh, why you are trying to drive away?' " And he'll be "Oh . . ." The . . . (indistinct) . . . colony in a loincloth, and engaged in the . . . (indistinct) . . . he had no practical knowledge. He started the movement from 1917, and actually it was . . . independence was given, 1947. Thirty years he failed.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' What was that about loincloth?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Twenty years he failed there. He spoils fifty years for nothing, and distorting ''Bhagavad-gītā'' that, "In ''Bhagavad-gītā'' there is nonviolence." Such a rascal. ''Bhagavad-gītā'' begins with, with this word, ''dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre yuyutsavaḥ'' ([[BG 1.1 (1972)|BG 1.1]]): "Two parties desiring to fight." That is the beginning. ''Yudhyasva mām anusmara'' ([[BG 8.7 (1972)|BG 8.7]]). And Kṛṣṇa's whole life is ''yuddha'', fighting. Before His birth, plan was being made how to kill Him. This is ''yuddha''. Kaṁsa was planning. And after His birth He had to go away, just to make a show, from His father's house to another house incognito to avoid ''yuddha''. And when ''yuddha'' began, three months old, He killed Pūtanā.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Violence was there. Violence from the beginning.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then Tṛṇāvarta, big, big ''yuddha''. Then Aghāsura, Bakāsura, Śakaṭāsura, this ''asura'', this ''asura'', that ''asura'', in childhood, in Vṛndāvana, so many. Then, when He went to Mathurā, big, big elephant, big, big wrestler. Then Kaṁsa. Hmm? Then, after Kaṁsa, then Jarāsandha, Pauṇḍraka, then kidnapping His wives. Fighting, only fighting. And these rascals say: "I do not like this Kṛṣṇa." You have heard that? He is creating his own Kṛṣṇa, this Gandhi.

'''Yaśomatīnandana:''' They also say, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that the Kṛṣṇa of ''Mahābhārata'' is different from the Kṛṣṇa of ''Bhāgavata''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Just see. How they are distorting history and everything. And ''Mahābhārata'' . . . he's advertising himself as staunch student of ''Bhagavad-gītā'', and he is distorting the meaning in so many ways. That is his business. And he's ''mahātmā''. ''Mahātmā'' means ''mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ'', ''bhajanty ananya'' . . . ([[BG 9.13 (1972)|BG 9.13]]). ''Mahātmā'' is a great devotee who has no other business than to obey the orders of Kṛṣṇa. ''Bhajanti''. ''Bhajana-sevā''. And he is discarding distorting, and he's ''mahātmā''. Just see. If you study, scrutinizing, these men have done greatest disservice to the country, to the people in general. And they have received no result. And I have worked ten years only, with ''Bhagavad-gītā'' ''As It Is''.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' So much results.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. The rascals are so blind. ''Phalena paricīyate''. The result is here.

'''Yaśomatīnandana:''' And he's called father of the nation.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Therefore your nation is like that

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Nation is so poor now.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Poor means . . . the party, Congress Party, practically achieved. Credit is there. And they are now ruined. This is their progress.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' They're fighting even more now. Śrīla Prabhupāda? Surabhi Swami is going back to Bombay . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' So what can I do? Money. Money is . . . if there is here, you can take. Surabhi Swami comes for money, I know that. He'll give me some plan. If there is money, we'll pay.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' How much money do you want?

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' I had a meeting in Bombay by Girirāja . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Meeting or no meeting, you want money and squander. That I know. So if there is money, he'll give you. Throw away.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' They want a lot of money, though.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Lot of money give and throw. What can be done? I know.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' We can explain to Tamāla Kṛṣṇa.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' They're asking for twenty-two ''lakhs'' of rupees.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, give twenty-two crores, I don't mind. Then do it.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' It will be paid back starting . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' All right.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Rāmeśvara promised us to pay it back.

'''Prabhupāda:''' All right. That's all right.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Then we can get the building complete in October.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Whatever money you have got, you squander. I don't mind. I know in the kitchen, so much money is squandered, and that is given. Squander. And increase the period and squander. That I know. So don't bother me now with your money. But finish within that period. That's all.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is my only request. Otherwise, you are squandering money. Do it. Do it. But after all, do it in time. I'm not going to live for long. If possible, I'll see and . . .

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Every Sunday in Bombay hundreds of people come just to look at the building. It is so attractive.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. So kindly finish it. Take money and squander and finish it at a time.

'''Surabhi:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda? When I was in Jaipur I inquired from some people regarding your health, because I met Yaśodānandana Swami in Delhi, and he told me that you wanted to know from an astrologer about the situation. So I went to one man who was previously the advisor of the Mahārāja of Mansingh of Jaipur. One Life Member brought me to him. So I inquired.

'''Prabhupāda:''' What he is?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' What is he? Is he an astrologer or what . . .

'''Surabhi:''' He's a paṇḍita. He uses numerology.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm? Numerology?

'''Surabhi:''' Numerology. By numbers. So he takes the name and then he . . . so he said . . . you want to know what he said? He told me that your disease is going to last altogether about two and a half years, two years and five months, of which eight months have passed.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Still I shall live?

'''Surabhi:''' He said that these three months now are most critical, but then, after three months, things will go better, but there will be ups and downs for about one and a half more years. Then he said after that it will be quite all right.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Three months?

'''Surabhi:''' It will be very . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Difficult.

'''Surabhi:''' Difficult. Yes. After three months, and he said that you will travel again then. But he said there is no absolute danger.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So. There is some sense.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Well, everybody's saying the same thing like this.

'''Surabhi:''' And he would like a report of these nine days that are going on now, and then he wants to study again more to give more information. I was there on the fifth.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So give him a place to send to . . .

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' He works by numbers, not by astrology. He's not an astrologer.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, so he knows my birth date and year.

'''Surabhi:''' Yes. He knows.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' I gave him your birth date and time.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' I mean now I gave him the time.

'''Surabhi:''' No, I had everything.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' You told him?

'''Surabhi:''' Yes. I gave him the time.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Is that a science, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that numbers?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Surabhi:''' And before I asked the question, he told me what my question was. So he said: "You have two questions." I said: "No, I have one." He said: "No, you have two." Because my question was how long you would stay. So he said: "No, you want to know about health and about life span." So he gave both answers. He also said that the medicine . . . the best thing for you to take is milk of a black cow and juice, fruit juice. That is the best to take.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Fruit juice.

'''Surabhi:''' Yes. Lot of juice and milk of black cow. And then tulasī.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is not difficult.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' That you're practically doing.

'''Prabhupāda:''' But he said "Black cow."

'''Surabhi:''' He was insisting on black cow.

'''Yaśomatīnandana:''' Śyāmala. You can arrange one?

'''Surabhi:''' And if black is not . . . Bhagatjī is looking for a black cow. He's been looking for the last two weeks. And also tulasī, he said. That is very important to take.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So you have? You can give me.

'''Surabhi:''' Other things are not necessary, he said.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Ācchā''? No medicine?

'''Surabhi:''' No. No medicine.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Good doctor. (laughter)

'''Prabhupāda:''' So meet him again and take particularly everything. So you can go.

'''Surabhi:''' Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Now I have to go. My train is leaving in about twenty minutes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So you can go.

'''Surabhi:''' So I have to go to Mathurā. ''Jaya'' Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' You arrange. In this stage, don't tax me very much. Now I have authorized that will and everything. Follow that. You believe.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes, we'll discuss it with Tamāla.

'''Prabhupāda:''' As far as . . . don't tax me. And printing, don't mind for price. Do it quickly and nicely.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is . . . as quickly as possible. No manuscript should be left vacant. That I want. Here and there I have more money invested. Now you don't . . .

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' No. We're not leaving anything.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' There are four Gujarati books now also coming out.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Print.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes, we have already finalized.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Print.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Those Diwali cards, Śrīla Prabhupāda, which I showed you? They're selling very well.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is business, earn money. That's all.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes. That's why I . . . every day we are getting orders of more than thousand cards just in Delhi.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Just see.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' And now I've just written . . . I'm adding three more cards to the line to give people more variety. So . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Very good. So there you have got business. You have got money. Why you are miser? Earn money and spend money. That's all.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes, these will make about . . . I know this business.

'''Prabhupāda:''' I know this business. Earn money and spend money.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' I try to make it . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Throughout my whole life I have done this. Earn money and spend money. I am not miser.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' No. When you wanted something . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' See money. Earn money and see money. I don't follow this policy.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' When you wanted something, you'd spend anything.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Just like that land in Bombay, that house.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, yes. Whatever everyone wanted, "All right, take it." Finish. "I know I am giving you ten thousand more, fifteen thousand more." I didn't mind. "Take it and finish business tomorrow. Take it."

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' That man was surprised that you didn't bargain with him.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No. I simply asked, "Whether you are going to finish it tomorrow? So I have agreed to pay." He said: "Yes, I can." What is that?

'''Dhanañjaya:''' This is a Deity of yourself, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Dhanañjaya:''' This is a Deity prepared here of you.

'''Prabhupāda:''' (laughs) So what shall I do? (laughter)

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' He just wanted to show it to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Nice.

'''Dhanañjaya:''' This is one for the temples.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' They like it very much.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Isn't it very small?

'''Dhanañjaya:''' Well, I showed this to all the GBC, and Balavanta took especially great interest.

'''Prabhupāda:''' It is silver?

'''Dhanañjaya:''' No. In brass.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Brass.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Can you silver-coat it?

'''Dhanañjaya:''' Yes, we can silver . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' They have done nice.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' It's very small.

'''Dhanañjaya:''' But this is also meant for householders.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' It's nice for householders, but for big temples it's very . . .

'''Dhanañjaya:''' For small temples.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No . . .

'''Dhanañjaya:''' We'd also like to prepare one of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura. You want to see?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' It looks good.

'''Prabhupāda:''' But looks good, that's good. (laughter)

'''Abhirāma:''' I know I would like to have one in my house in . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. It is good.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Playing the ''karatālas'', preaching.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Nobody's going to see what is within. He looks good, that's good. (laughter) Just like they are making statue very nice.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' In Los Angeles, Bharadvāja.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So do nicely, quickly, and spend money. (laughter) That's all. I want to see things are done very nice. Never mind money is spent.

'''Dhanañjaya:''' I also looked into this weaving of silk Benares ''sārīs''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Dhanañjaya:''' You mentioned that we should encourage cottage industries here, and . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' What is that?

'''Dhanañjaya:''' Cottage industries.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Cottage industries.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hah.

'''Dhanañjaya:''' And so these handlooms are available, but along with the looms you must have expert weavers, handloomers.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So why you are bothering if you have no expert, you have to find out expert weaver? Why? We are not for industry. Why should we divert our attention unnecessarily?

'''Dhanañjaya:''' But you did mention previously that our ISKCON ladies, if they so desire, they can learn.

'''Prabhupāda:''' If they are idle, then you can give engagement. Otherwise don't bring engagements. If they are idle—there is no work—give them. Not that you bring engagement and then . . . we want to free from engagement, but if there is idle men, doing nothing, give them engagement. Now that we have got so many workers. Simply unnecessarily, paid men are there for cutting vegetable. They have got so much . . . means management is a rascal. Our men are idle, and they're bringing paid men to cut vegetables and paying two hundred rupees. This is management. First of all, whatever business is already there, engage them. Then bring further engagement. Now he has understood the situation. Do it very carefully. Don't make plan for squandering money. There are so many engagements. They're not doing anything. They're bringing a paid man to do the work. And you are finding out another engagement. Apply some brain.

'''Indian Devotee (1):''' Śrīla Prabhupāda, you always called ''Back to Godhead'' magazine the backbone of Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. You have many times said that B''ack to Godhead'' magazine is the backbone of Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. So it is my ardent desire that the Hindi ''Back to Godhead'' should be made a regular monthly.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Why don't you make?

'''Indian Devotee (1):''' There are printing and distribution problem.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' We had a big stock of our old issue. We had printed seventy thousand of that. There's only few thousand left, and we have a lot of . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' If you have got distribution problem, then you . . .

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' And we have a lot of small books which we have just printed. So I wanted the small books to be cleared out. Like in Germany and France also, they don't do ''Back to Godhead'' every month. They do it every few months so that they can get the books out.

'''Prabhupāda:''' It doesn't matter. Every month, if we regularly publish, we get some postal custom. That's . . . if you every month publish some in certain date, you get very cheap rate for posting. That . . . all right.

'''Indian Devotee (1):''' ''Jaya'' Śrīla Prabhupāda. (devotees offer obeisances)

'''Prabhupāda:''' So a good thing . . . (break) Very good boy. So Gaurasundara, if he joins there, it will be still more brilliant for both of them. Because you have got the talent. You are not to be taught. You can teach others how to make dolls. And profusely make this doll exhibition from ''Bhāgavata''. Yes. There's no need of reading book. They will see and understand ''Bhāgavata''. Everywhere, in every branch, you see how many tourists you attract. Do all these things. Kṛṣṇa has given all assistance: money, men, endeavor. Now utilize it properly. Just see how nicely they have made. Nobody will understand this is doll. As if actual photograph.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Actually, when I showed someone that photograph of Your Divine Grace in the Rādhā-Dāmodara room, you know, that doll exhibit, he said: "Who took this photo so many years ago?" I said: "No, this is not a photo. This is doll exhibit." This was a devotee of yours. They thought it was a photograph taken ten years ago or twelve years ago. They couldn't understand that it was a doll.

'''Prabhupāda:''' At least in London, in Hawaii, then . . . what is called?

'''Upendra:''' Washington?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, the palace.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' France. Germany.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' You have so many palaces we don't know which one you mean. Oh, Detroit.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' That's a good place for it, Detroit. They're planning a big one in Washington, D.C.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Do it first. In Hawaii the Deities are made of paper combination?

'''Gurukṛpā:''' Now Bharadvāja is making like this.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, very good.

'''Gurukṛpā:''' He's already . . . he will be finished in two or three weeks.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' These are very hard, aren't they? Can't break. It seems very . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. It is as good as marble.

'''Gurukṛpā:''' He's already started.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's good. The old Deities, when the new Deities come, old Deities should be thrown in the ocean. That's it. And new Deities should be replaced with ceremony. There is no difficulty.

'''Gurukṛpā:''' I have got now an Australian passport, so I want to stay in India for some time.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. That's good.

'''Gurukṛpā:''' Everything has been . . . there's not much for me to do there. Śrutakīrti is doing it.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's nice. He is very intelligent.

'''Gurukṛpā:''' Yes. I just have to go sometimes and like that. There's not much for me to do, and I cannot do anything in Japan now, so I've come here to find some service.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Tell him. His name has been submitted.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' For . . .

'''Devotee:''' Permanent residency.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' For residency? He doesn't need it. He says he's arranged an Australian passport.

'''Gurukṛpā:''' I have now . . . I am an Australian.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. (laughs)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' He's changed his nationality.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. Commonwealth.

'''Gurukṛpā:''' Yes, welcome to the Commonwealth.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' All the men are like that?

'''Gurukṛpā:''' No, most. Bhānu has come with me now. He's here.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' He's Canadian.

'''Gurukṛpā:''' He's Canadian. And I have some Australians and English boys with me.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So stay.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Here's Bhānu, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh! . . . (indistinct) . . . I am very glad to see you. Keeping good health?

Bhānu: Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's nice.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' You personally made Bhānu a devotee, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Took him with you.

'''Prabhupāda:''' He can worship Deity very good.

'''Upendra:''' In Hawaii he introduced very high standard of Deity worship, Bhānu did. (indistinct background conversation between Tamāla Kṛṣṇa and Gurukṛpā)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Gurukṛpā brought his deities, little Gaura-Nitāi. He's wondering where will be a good place to keep them while he's here in Vṛndāvana.

'''Prabhupāda:''' The altar?

'''Gurukṛpā:''' No, that's not . . .

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' It's difficult. He says . . .

'''Gurukṛpā:''' I'd like to bring them in daily for you to have darśana since you cannot go to the Deity.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, I go.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Prabhupāda goes every day. Difficult to put 'em in here?

'''Prabhupāda:''' But very carefully it should be done.

'''Gurukṛpā:''' Yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' His deities. You have a lot of jewels with you.

'''Gurukṛpā:''' I can't keep them on the altar.

'''Prabhupāda:''' If you like, you can keep in private room also.

'''Gurukṛpā:''' Yes, that is better.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' They've arranged a very big room for the men, the biggest room here, so it's practically like a temple room in itself. It's where the ''gurukula'' used to be.

'''Gurukṛpā:''' It is better. We cook separate for them.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Cook separate?

'''Gurukṛpā:''' Just for the deity.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is not very good.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' It's not a big thing here to cook. Prabhupāda just closed four kitchens down.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam'' ([[BG 9.26 (1972)|BG 9.26]]). No cooking. ''Tulasī'' and ''jāla''. You can offer little fruits, nuts, milk. No need of cooking. Take so much time. I want here no hired . . . but for the Deities and the devotees it is very . . . (indistinct) . . . the hired cook, they are most wretched people. Their association is bad. Make some arrangement so that you can avoid hired cook unless it is absolutely necessary.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda, it's about twelve-twenty. Maybe you want to take your message now. (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sabai ye babu hoye geche, esobi to atkay ar kichu na. (Everyone became a gentlemen, this is halting them.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Ekahner sthanio lok der o amader sange tene nite hobe. (Local people also have to bring with us.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya, se kaj karo. (Yes, you have to do it.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Hya. (Yes.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Tarai khabe, tarai porbe, tarai thakbe . . . (They will eat, they will dress and they will live here . . .)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Bhakta jiban yapan korbe. (They will live a devotee's life.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ar baki samay tara Hari-nam korbe. Eta korbe. (And in their free time they will chant Harinama. They will do it.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Go-raksya ta . . . (Cow protection is also . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ar mane . . . (indistinct) . . . koruk. Besi hole dujoner khabar, gorur o holo manusero holo. Manusta . . . hoye . . . rista pusta hoye . . . (indistinct) . . . baki samay Hari-nam korbe. Goru dudh debe, manus kheye risto pusta hobe. Tara . . . kheye deye bece thakbe, bece thakar upadanito . . . (indistinct) . . . tarpore . . . (indistinct) . . . srinkhala, santir janye . . . (indistinct Bengali) . . . (And . . . (indistinct) . . . let them do. At the maximum enough food for two people, for man as well as for the cow. That person will be healthy and nourished . . . (indistinct) . . . other times he will chant Harinama. The cow will produce milk and after drinking it, the man will be healthy and nourished. They will live on it, because the source of living . . . (indistinct) . . . then . . . (indistinct) . . . for discipline and peace . . .)

'''Bhaki-caru:''' Khaoa porar janya ya kichu darkar segulo farm theke pelam, ar baki samayta Bhagavad-bhajan korlam. (Food and clothing we will get from the farm, and the rest of the time we will do ''Bhagavad-bhajana''.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya, samsya nei. (Yes, there is no problem.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Śrīla Prabhupād amader to ISKCON er sob bhaktai to brahmin, to tahole varna-sram dharmer pracalan ki bhabe hobe? (Śrīla Prabhupāda, in our ISKCON every devotee is a ''brahmin'', so how will the ''varnasrama dharma'' be maintained?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Seta amra spiritually svikar korchi, kintu yara spiritually advance hoy tader ekta niyamer madhye dile, tader spiritual . . . (indistinct) . . . thake. Ta automatic . . . (indistinct) . . . hoy. (We are spiritually accepting that but those who are spiritually advanced, if they have been given rules, are spiritual . . . (indistinct) . . . remain. That is automatic . . . (indistinct) . . . happens.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Bhabisyate ki sakale brahmin thakbe na, tarpore takhan . . . (In the future everyone will remain as a ''brahmin'' or at that time . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Na, na, varna-sram mane brahmin, khatrya, vaisya, sudra. (No, no, ''varnasrama'' means ''brahmin, kshatriya, vaisya, sudra''.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Vaisya der ki rup thakbe amader? (How will the vaisyas live their lives?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Vaisya ra kon role play korbe? (Which role will the vaisyas play?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Krsi, go-raksya. (Farming and protecting cows.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Accha! Krsi, go-raksya. (Okay. Farming and protecting cows.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Amader vedic literature sakalei brahmin. Lok sikshar janye keu vaisya hobe, keu sudra hobe, keu . . . ei arki. Tara, yara niskapate Hari-bhajan korbe sob brahmin, kintu lok sikshar janye sadharan bhabe eta tara play korbe. Tader upakare. Saman srnkhalar modhye, santir modhye ei communist hote parbe na. (According to our vedic literature everyone is a brahmin. But for the education of people, some will act as ''vaisya'', some will act as ''sudra'', some . . . this is the thing. They who will do ''Hari-bhajan'' naively, they are all ''brahmins'' but for the education of the people, they will play the role of a simple person. For the benefit of others. They should not be a communist, there should be rules and peace.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Hya. Amader desheto communism korche ora khao, porar janya, amader deshe communism mane hocche khete porte pare na. (Yes. In our country they are making communism for eating and clothing. In our country, communism means they are not getting food to eat and clothes.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Varna-sram hole seta abar thakbe na. (If the varnasrama is there then that problem won't be there.)

'''Bhakti-caru:''' . . . seta abar thakbe na. Na, amrato lok re deke deke khaoacchi . . . (that won't be there. But we are calling people, feeding them . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ora ei jinis korbe na! Amoker bari . . . (indistinct) . . . ei oder . . . (indistinct) . . .yar . . . (indistinct) . . . khaoao. Cartra gathaner darkar nei. Curi, camari yeta kore hok khaoao . . . (indistinct Bengali) (Won't they do that? One's house . . . (indistinct) . . . this is their . . . (indistinct) . . . whose . . . (indistinct) . . . feed them. No need to make good characters. Steal or whatever but feed them . . .) (end)

730712 - Conversation B - London

2024-02-07T04:58:09Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"

[[Category:1973 - Conversations]]
[[Category:1973 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1973 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1973-07 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Conversations - Europe]]
[[Category:Conversations - Europe, England - London]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - Europe]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - Europe, England - London]]
[[Category:Conversations with Religious Clergy]]
[[Category:1973 - New Audio - Released in May 2015]]
[[Category:Audio Files 90.01 Minutes or More]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Hindi Snippets]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Conversations - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Conversations - by Date|Conversations by Date]], [[:Category:1973 - Conversations|1973]]'''</div>
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<div class="code">730712R2-LONDON - July 12, 1973 - 91:25 Minutes</div>

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1973/730712R2-LONDON.mp3</mp3player>

(Conversation with two Buddhist monks)

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' . . . living religion . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' . . . without which we cannot go very much further.

'''Prabhupāda:''' This is humanity.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Yes, humanity. I was in Hrishikesh and five or six times in India. So that is why . . . wherever possible, I lived with them, not for long times—a day or two or three or a week at most—share our spiritual food together.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So far hospitality is concerned, according to Vedic culture, Indian homes were open for everyone, even for the enemies. ''Gṛhe śatrum api prāptaṁ viśvastam akutobhayam.'' If one gets an enemy at his home as guest, he should receive him in such a way that the man would forget about his enmity with him. ''Gṛhe śatrum api prāptaṁ viśvastam akutobhayam.'' So these are preliminary human behavior. Even without any understanding of spiritual values, they are expected to behave nicely.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Yes. It is very easy to love someone who loves you. But real, purified, selfless love is to radiate it without any discrimination, both to the person who loves and to . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, therefore I said . . .

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' . . . whom does not love you. That is the beginning . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Therefore I said.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' . . . of that good hospitality. That's real hospitality.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, that is . . . that I said, ''gṛhe śatrum api prāptam.'' Even one gets an enemy, he should be also be received.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' He's come to your place, and treat him with all the respect and courtesy . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' . . . and that loving kindness.

'''Prabhupāda:''' From ''Mahābhārata'' we can understand that when Bhīma, Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa went to Jarāsandha to fight with him, enemy, so in the daytime they were fighting like enemies, and at night Kṛṣṇa, Bhīma and Arjuna were guest in the house of the same Jarāsandha.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. At night they were guest. They were talking very friendly, and there is no enmity. But in daytime they'll fight. (laughter)

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Yes. Gautama the Buddha, whom I follow, who is my teacher, a poor man came, and he found him panting, asked him, "Well, what's the trouble?" "Oh, I've got news that you're here. I want to see you." And the Buddha found that not only had he run . . . he asked him, "When did you last have a meal?" He said, "That's quite a few days ago." He said: "We cannot preach on empty stomachs. Ānanda, give this man a good meal before he could come to me." And this fine virtue of hospitality, much as we have treasured in the past, when people leave their shores, they are inclined to forget this. I've been addressing various groups. I do not confine myself to Buddhist groups only. Whatever group was interested, to foster some understanding, good will and peace, I addressed. I said three things that many people forget when they leave their countries are: first, their serene smile; secondly, hospitality; thirdly, they become ashamed of their own cultures because many are strangers of their own cultures.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' I had last time an opportunity, before coming to Southampton, I addressed some people from Sri Lanka, and there were some people from Canada as well, at Montreal. And I pointed this out. In this light, I find almost all the teachers that come from that part of the world and their followers are trying to live up to this noble virtue. And if people get together, live together and have meals, perhaps even that . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' So these devotees, they have not been separately instructed about hospitality. But because they are devotees of the Lord, this hospitality automatically they learn. ''Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ'' ([[SB 5.18.12|SB 5.18.12]]). If one becomes perfectly a devotee of the Lord, all the good qualities of demigods manifest automatically.

The hospitality is also a good quality. So out of many good qualities, this is one of them. So these devotees, they are automatically well behaving to the guest, newcomer, on account of their advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because a Kṛṣṇa conscious person takes everyone—not only human being, but even animals, insect, trees, birds, beasts, everyone, living entities—as part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. So it is their duty to behave well with all living entities, not only the human being, but also even with the animals. ''Ahiṁsā''.

''Amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam'' ([[BG 13.8-12 (1972)|BG 13.8]]). The ''ahiṁsā'' preached by Lord Buddha, that is also one of the qualifications of devotee. ''Amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā''. That is stated in the ''Bhagavad-gītā''. So we are preaching. Every religion preaches, but people do not follow. The Christian religion also preaches ''ahiṁsā'', "Thou shall not kill," but they do not follow.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Yes, we, as followers of the Buddha, take it from this angle, that this mental process, which is normally subject to ''lobha, doṣa'' and ''moha'', we have to purify this mental process from these defilements and substitute liberality, including hospitality and loving kindness and wisdom. It's not only a process of purifying. It is a parallel purpose of building good will.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' According to us, if we know how to live together, eat together in a cooperative spirit, we are not going to violate the five fundamental precepts, starting with (Sanskrit or Pali) ''panatipata o ermani siksa patan samanti ami'', that is, not to cause any hurt to any mentally conscious living being.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' And ''ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ'': nonviolence is the highest righteousness. And from this can come so much good. If we love each other, we express that love in its purest form by sharing, and if we share, we are not going to steal anything from someone else, we're not going to commit adultery, we're not going to say lies, and we'll not be under the influence of narcotics and so on.

So that's that purification process, which is very, very powerful, not only for oneself, but the society in which it is used. So this is why I emphasize this virtue, and wherever I go, I try to meet, within the limitations of time and transport . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Where you are staying here? London?

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' That had become a little difficult because . . . it's difficult. We didn't know these ''āśramas'', and we came yesterday. The ''guru'' Nanak temple people made arrangements for our transport. We were staying with them for one week, and they looked after us dearly, and they made arrangements for our transport to come here. Some people were coming on some other business, so they brought us.

So it was not much time. So we met a person in the street, and we told them that we are looking after a place to stay. And that person said: "Well, it's difficult here." Then I asked about two or three, and we had some addresses, and they were far away. Then we met a friendly gentleman who was just reversing his car. He was smiling, and we smiled. We said: "Well, could you tell us a small place to pitch a tent?" We carry a small tent. We said: "For a day or two." He asked me how long. I said: "Just to find some breathing space at least." So we have pitched up a small tent in a private garden. That's somewhere in Cheswick Lane.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Where it is?

'''Devotee:''' You know where Cheswick is?

'''Haṁsadūta:''' Cheswick Lane.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' That's by the river, uh? It's quite far away, yes. So last night we stayed there. Is that on the western side of . . .?

'''Devotee:''' Yes, that's the West Fork.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' West Fork. West Fork.

'''Prabhupāda:''' This is northern? No, southern. I do not know. We are also (Buddhist laughs) camped for the last few days. We do not know much about . . .

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Much about it, yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' I was here in 1952, and somewhere in '60 as well. I have been traveling eighteen years in nearly a hundred countries and trying to give a little good will. Of course, I am just one man, and within the capacity of one person, and this boy joined me in New Zealand about one and a half years ago. A few bridges are being made. A religion that is not lived, according to us, fails the purpose of religion because religion should be a way of living. And if we live that, there'll be less ''duḥkha'' and more ''śānti'', more peace.

There is an awakening in almost all these parts. I was even in the East European countries, from Sofia right up to Moscow. Even there, I carried all the books—the ''Bible'' and the ''Bhagavad-gītā'', Buddhist books. At the frontier, they opened the books. I had all these books with me—Rāmāyaṇa, ''Vedas'', something from Egypt, Kung-fu-tzu, Lao-tse. They opened. They looked. They put them back. Not one question was asked. And that very police officer who was passing my passport, I saw him in the restaurant. He called me. Because I had an old photograph which I had taken when I first started traveling. That's twenty years. I didn't take it seriously.

So he said: "This is not you." First, before I met him in the restaurant, I said: "Technically you may be right, because we are changing every moment. So it's not myself." (sighs) But after some time he passed my passport, and then I went to the restaurant where I saw him. He said . . . he called me, he said: "Formerly I was an officer, and now you are my friend. What do you eat?" (Prabhupāda chuckles) Well, he asked the waitress to, "Come, bring him a very fine meal, the best you can offer in the restaurant." I said: "That's very kind." Then he said: "I'll bring you meat and all that . . . (indistinct) . . ." I said: "Please keep me out of it." I said: "I am a pure vegetarian." "What do you eat?" I said: "All vegetables. If you have rice, it's good." "Oh, bring him a vodka!"

'''Prabhupāda:''' Vodka? What . . .?

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Vodka.

'''Haṁsadūta:''' Whiskey. Liquor.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' He tried whiskey. He said: "Come to vodka, because Johnnie Walker's whiskey here, Scotch". I told him, "I don't drink that either." "What do you eat ? And what do you drink?!" So . . . he asked me, "What's the matter with you?" "There's nothing wrong with me. (laughter) I am quite healthy and everything. I am a follower of the Buddha, and our first precept is nonviolence to all mentally conscious living beings. And that's the reason why we follow this." "Ah, you miss the steak don't you?" I said: "I miss nothing. If one wants to have vegetables prepared, there are so many ways of preparing it, healthier, and if one wants taste, it could be even more tasteful." "All right, all right. Bring him as many vegetables. And what then you drink? Beer?" I said, "No. Fruit drinks, if you have." "You order." He gave me a listing. I wanted to pay. He wouldn't allow me to pay, and he paid it.

Those people are kind there. And from the time I got . . . went across, I could talk to anyone without any restriction. I could discuss religion with farmers, factory workers, doctors, lawyers, whom I met in the course of my visit. And they were getting interested. Because people who have not seen materialism, they are very crazy for it. But once they have it, and it is beginning to be a surfeit, and divorces and suicides and other troubles increase, nervous cases, they think, "Oh, now there is a vacuum setting in."

So they are interested. I was in every East European country. They never tried to tamper with my books or my talks. Of course, I didn't organize any public talks. I didn't . . . made no attempt. Then Czechoslovaks, Hungarians, very warm-hearted people. There are ''yoga'' classes there. And I met quite a few Hungarians outside who referred to ''yoga''. Then Romanians, Yugoslavs, Bulgarians. They are friendly people. Swāmījī, have you been there in Eastern European countries?

'''Prabhupāda:''' I have been in Moscow.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Moscow? They're friendly people. I will go back again.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. I know.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Yes. So it is a world which is shrinking . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' The government is against any religious . . .

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Well, not so strict now as the past, because the word "religion" has been used as a narcotic by people. The religious institution was kissing the state, and the state was kissing religion.

'''Prabhupāda:''' When I was in airport, the custom clearance, as soon as they saw my book, ''Bhagavad-gītā'', they called police. (laughter)

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' I was also getting ready . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' So the policeman saw and said: "Oh, you can go."

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Well . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' They were so suspicious.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Well, I was wondering whether they would ask me whether I am bringing narcotic, the religion, the heart of the heartless, soul of the soulless, the opiate of the masses. So I had read Marx before I left my country. I had thought, "They will ask me," but no such question was asked. And ultimately, when I was leaving the Soviet Union, they again opened my books, you see, and put them back.

One book, an officer kept one book. I thought, "Now, what is this? All right." He closed the suitcase, did not put this book, and he comes behind me and says: "Could I have this book?" I said: "You see, I have made many notes in the book. Why do you want that book for? So kindly return it to me, please." He wouldn't return it. He follows. And he says, "Please let me have it." I asked him, "Why do you want this book really for?" He said: "I have studied Buddhism from the Northern School, and I would like to know something about the Southern School of Buddhism." I said: "Anyhow, you can get these books. I'll give you an address." But he wouldn't give it to me. He said: "Please let me have it." I said: "All right. Good health and peace to you. You can have it." Hungarians are very warm-hearted people, very warm-hearted people.

'''Prabhupāda:''' (aside) It is for me?

'''Devotee:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Leave it.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' And Swāmījī, you generally spend more of your time here?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Generally in America, Los Angeles. And also in Europe.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' We went to Hare Kṛṣṇa in Los Angeles, also, did we stay a couple of days there?

'''Buddhist Monk (2):''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Yes. Can you remember? There we took our car, and when we were coming there, they were waving to us. I think that the world is shrinking; not that any continents are going down to the sea, but people are moving about the place. I think the more we start thinking about one world rather than big barriers, and get together and meet together and talk together in a spirit of loving kindness, with tolerance, radiating our love always, I think this is the only way I know of. And people are getting interested in the universities, and other, high schools. Not still by the millions, but certainly by the hundreds and thousands. And that's good enough for a start.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Some of our books were selected textbooks in many colleges, universities. You have seen our books?

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' I have seen some of them, not all of them. Because I meet these boys and girls, and . . . I seen that book about . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Our this book, ''Nectar of Devotion'', that is a study book in the Temple University, Philadelphia. Similarly, our ''Kṛṣṇa Book'',

(aside) and what other books? They are . . .? Especially ''Kṛṣṇa Book'' and ''Nectar of Devotion''. ''Bhagavad-gītā'' also, ''As It Is''.

(pause)

We consider Lord Buddha also as incarnation of God.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Yes, I know that. Of course, on this there's a difference of view between the Orthodox Buddhists and that thinking. Because during the earlier days of Buddhist preaching there were certain differences of opinion. And the ''brāhmaṇa'' sections fell into various categories. Some of them were not very friendly, and others accepted quite a few of his . . . their teachings. And a third section, led by people like Sarikuta and Munkali Sanmukhala they became followers as well. And, of course, so many things have been incorporated, ''kāma, krodha, lobha, kleśa, abhimāna''. They are very similar to the teachings of the Buddha, and they are very progressive.

Because ''lobha, lobha, lobha, lobha'' is at the root of our problems. ''Tanhaya jayate soko, tanhaya jayate bhayak, tanhaya vipra muktasya, nati soko ato bhayat'': "Greed is the cause of suffering; greed is the cause of fear. Remove this greed: Where is the suffering? Where is the fear?" And, of course, being tolerant and understanding, man being a bundle of habits and customs, we cannot eradicate all grief overnight. But certainly we can start reducing this greed. Reduce and reduce.

And then that's the only way to purify the mind. And then ought show such a society where greed has been reduced will be relatively a peaceful society. Simple living, high thinking and high practice. That's the cornerstone of our philosophies. Multiplication of so many . . . (indistinct) . . . colonational output, flying to the moon and not going into one's mind, and producing these things and calling them . . . (indistinct) . . . what is . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sometimes we find that peaceful living is visible even in animal society. Just like the cows, they're very peaceful. There are other animals—dogs and others—they fight. But hundreds of thousands of cows, they live very peacefully. Birds also. Just like the swans, they live very peacefully. So is that the highest goal of life, to live peacefully? Because that is also found in animal society. Is that the perfection of life?

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Yes, a man has to ask himself a simple and straightforward question. What really does he want to put his life to? Does he want suffering or peace?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, suffering, of course, nobody wants. That's a fact.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' That's it exactly.

'''Prabhupāda:''' But in this material world, even if you become peaceful, does it mean that you are out of suffering? I don't think.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Yeah. Well, I've been asking in all these universities, high schools, and all those, all those audiences, "What is the purpose of this so-called modern education? What is the purpose? If so, kindly define this purpose. Have people thought on this?" I just gave a broadcast at Southampton day before yesterday.

Nobody . . . not many people appear to have seriously considered this question. Is it to fly to the moon? Is it to be a food taster or a noise lover? Or is it to build dreams and castles in the air? Or to soak one's self in the whirlpools of ''kāma'', sensuality? What is this life for? What is our education for? No one appeared . . . very, very few people have appeared to . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, there is no aim of the education. Their only aim is economic development.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' That's right.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And that means higher standard of sense gratification.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' The more material doubts people can produce, that's supposed to be the educated person.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' And I told them directly and indirectly, "Your systems, which have transplanted the well-type system, especially of India, has created a catastrophe. We have made mistakes in the past, but we profited by them, and we want a successful educational system that taught the individual how to build some peace within himself, mentally and physically—within his family, within his relations, society, nation and the world. And today that system has been overtaken by this materialistic system. One calls himself materialist directly; another, camouflage, just under the name of religion. That's the only difference I know of in these two systems in the West.

That's the only difference." And I told them. I said: "We want peace. ''Śānti, śānti, śānti''. And we know the danger of playing with the fireball of materialism, which is throwing its tentacles into any part of society: divorces, nervous cases, mental cases, cancers, suicides, family life is breaking. And it reminds me of Gibbon's writing about the decline and fall of the Roman Empire. And all those symptoms are there in this so-called progressive, civilized culture." I used the word "so-called." And this mind . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' But what remedy you have suggested?

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Reduction of greed, and substitution of liberality. There is no other remedy.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Because greed causes the rats-race. Greed causes these wars. But if we reduce this, and the reduction parallely followed by simple living, high thinking and high practice. There is no other remedy, whatever religion a man follows. If they get involved in this rat-race of materialism, war is inevitable, whether for a stretch of water or for land. But if man lives a simple life, this Mother Earth can be made to produce everything that is necessary. Soya beans are a very fine substitute for meat. And if they do not damage the crust of the earth, and if they scientifically control birth, scientifically, not by drugs and pills, which are dangerous . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' What is that scientifically?

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' It's a control of the sex, sex.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is ''brahmacārī''.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' ''Brahmacārī''. (background talking, people entering)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Let them come. They want to see me. Let them come.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' And ''tan moha veda krati dhanacari''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Come. (people entering) This greediness . . . that is a good suggestion, that you reduce your greediness, but unless they get a substitute, they cannot. That is the difficulty.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Yes. The substitute is, according to us . . . we point out the difference between the sensual, fleeting pleasures, which is not quite a proper word . . . it's no pleasure, in that it brings pain and suffering. In the renunciation of greed is prīti, delight. And when a man enjoys delight, that's incomparably better and lasting, more . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' According to ''Vedānta'' philosophy, every living entity is searching after delight. ''Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt'' (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). By nature, a living entity is delightful, but he has been covered by this temporary material covering, and therefore his delightness is perverted. So our philosophy, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy, is that ''paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate'' ([[BG 2.59 (1972)|BG 2.59]]). If you give him better delight, then he can give up this inferior delight of material enjoyment. Otherwise, simply by instructing that, "You give up this," it is difficult.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' That's right. You are . . . one has to . . . ''śambhuḥ pāpas cākāraṇa, kuśalasya upasampada sac citto parayodapanam etaṁ buddham anuśāsana''. Abstain from the unwholesome, the source of all our problems and suffering, ''lobha, doṣa, moha. Kuśalasya upasampada''. Practice the virtues, that is when the mind is rooted in ''alobha'', that is nongreed, liberality, including hospitality; ''adoṣa'', nonhatred, evil, all-loving kindness; ''amoha opanya'' wisdom. And why?

When one is on the noble, eight-fold path—right understanding, right thinking, right speech, right bodily action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness and right concentration—there is that oozing joy and delight. And that is the finest substitute. Man, because of ''avidyā'', have not tasted delight. Because of his weakness, they thought ''mokṣa'' . . . (knock on door)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' . . . that it was here in this earth when they indulge in sensualities. (more people enter)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hare Kṛṣṇa. Baithiye. (Please sit.) Jaya.

(pause)

You are from India? (indistinct Hindi) . . . acha, acha (okay, okay.)

'''Indian man (1):''' Vaikuṇṭha dāsi, he has been very kind.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So we are therefore presenting Kṛṣṇa, the most delightful feature. So chanting and dancing before Kṛṣṇa, taking His ''prasādam'', and practicing delightful nature, awakening the delightful consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So as this is taking practical shape, all these European, American boys, Canadian, African, they are becoming delightful, and with great delight they are chanting, dancing and taking ''prasādam''.

:''ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi''
:''na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ''
:''sevonmukhe hi jihvādau''
:''svayam eva sphuraty adhaḥ''
:(Brs. 1.2.234)

We cannot understand God by our present senses. So the senses are to be purified. And that purification begins, ''sevonmukha'', by engaging the tongue, ''jihvādau'', in the delightful activities of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

So practically we are getting result. These boys, they were very morose, but now they are very delightful simply by following this method, engaging the tongue in the service of Kṛṣṇa. Tongue has got two business: tasting and chanting, vibrating. So they are vibrating ''harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam'' ([[CC Adi 17.21|CC Adi 17.21]]), and tasting Kṛṣṇa ''prasādam''. And we are practically seeing that they are becoming delightful, living very happily, preaching all over the world.

I started this movement alone in 1966, but these boys, inexperienced boys, having no spiritual training—they were trained up in their own ways, meat-eating, illicit sex, intoxication—but they gave up all these habits, and delightfully they are going any part of the world and preaching this cult, and we are meeting with success. It is not that I have gone every place. It is not possible. I am old man. So I give them direction.

Just like this boy. He's a ''gṛhastha''. So husband and wife, they are organizing in Germany. We have got four, five branches in Germany. We have published this record (shows album) and so many books and literatures. So this ''saṅkīrtana'' movement, even though conducted by inexperienced young men, but they are creating delight to the masses.

'''Indian man (1):''' But they are very . . . I am very envious of them.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Indian man (1):''' I am very envious of them because they have got this ''guru's'' grace on them.

'''Prabhupāda:''' (chuckling) Yes.

'''Indian man (1):''' This ''guru's'' grace is working. It is invisible, you see. This is all-powerful.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, you can get also, provided you take it. (laughter) ''guru'' is not miser. (laughter)

'''Indian man (1):''' (indistinct) . . . is, ''gurudeva'' you see, I want that . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' The one thing is they take it. Others will not take it. That is the difference. If . . . there is a picture: my ''guru'' Mahārāja has . . . one man has fallen in a deep well, and he's crying, "Save me!" So another man dropped a rope that, "You catch it. I shall carry you." Then he'll not catch it. Then how he can be drawn? So the . . .

(break) . . . ''mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat'' ([[BG 7.7 (1972)|BG 7.7]]). "There is nothing more superior than Me." We are preaching the same thing that, "You are searching after God. You are, some of you, are disgusted that, 'There is no God,' but here is God. You take His name. You take His address. You take His daily activities. Everything is there." And that is our mission.

And we started this Kṛṣṇa consciousness Movement in 1966. So when I registered this Society, somebody suggested that "Why not make it 'God consciousness'?" And no, I want to give definitely what is God. God, they have got different conception. But here is God: ''kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam'' ([[SB 1.3.28|SB 1.3.28]]). That is the Vedic injunction. "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." And when He was present, He proved it that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So we have not introduced any new system of religion. That is not a fact. We have simply placed, administered, the same thing which was spoken five thousand years ago. That's all.

Five thousand years ago, Kṛṣṇa said that, "There is nothing, no more superior authority than Me." We are preaching the same thing, the same old thing. Kṛṣṇa said,'' sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja'' ([[BG 18.66 (1972)|BG 18.66]]): "You just surrender unto Me." Kṛṣṇa said that, "Surrender unto Me," and we are speaking, "Surrender unto Kṛṣṇa." Same thing. Kṛṣṇa said that, "I am the origin of everything," ''ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate'' ([[BG 10.8 (1972)|BG 10.8]]). We are speaking the same thing, that the original source of everything is Kṛṣṇa. We are challenging the scientists also. They are of opinion that, "Life has come from matter," and we are challenging, "No, life and matter, both have come from life." This is our challenge. So originally life, originally Kṛṣṇa, life. Not matter. Matter has come subsequently.

So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not a new movement. It is the old movement. At least, historically, five thousand years old. And we have got so many books. We have . . . out of sixty volumes, we have published only about twelve volumes. So it's a great literature, ''Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.'' So everything is there; nothing new. We haven't got to make a new system of religion. It is already there. Simply people may kindly understand it. That is our proposition.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' What happens when similar statements are made by other people that we have, they have their own God, who is . . . they made a unique system, and someone else says: "No, we have our own unique system." Someone else says: "No, all those three systems we do not agree with. We have got our unique system." What's going to happen in that thing?

'''Prabhupāda:''' That will . . . ''phalena paricīyate.'' The system which is accepted more, that is successful. You can present so many system, but the test will be which system is more accepted by the people, by the mass, general people. That is successful. ''Phalena paricīyate''. And if somebody says that, "I have got my own God," and some other says: "I have got my own God," but this is a fact: God is one. You may call by different name. That is different thing. But God cannot be manufactured that, "You manufacture your God, I manufacture my God, he manufactures his God." That is not God.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' That's exactly what is happening.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That . . . happening, that is another thing. We are talking of the principle. God is one. God cannot be two. Then there is no meaning of God. Now, if I present Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, if you disagree, then you'll have to present your God. Now, we have to consider who is actually God. Just like I talked with Professor Kotovsky in Moscow. So I asked him that "Where is the difference between your Communist philosophy and our philosophy? The Communist philosophy, they have created their own God, Lenin." Lenin is their God. You have seen in Moscow.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Yes, I've been . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Every street, every a . . .

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Every street. I know, all over.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Lenin, Lenin's picture, Lenin's book.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Yes, yes, yes, yes. That's right.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So I told him that "You have created your own God, Lenin. And we have got our own God, Kṛṣṇa. Now, the principle of accepting somebody as God is there, in your philosophy and in my philosophy. So that you cannot avoid. Your communistic philosophy cannot avoid the conception of God, the leader." Just like in Buddha philosophy also, there is the conception of God, of Lord Buddha.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' No. That's not correct. Because we do not treat the Buddha . . . in fact, when the Buddha preached his atheistic philosophy . . . that's why he was termed a ''nāstika'', a ''wasala''. We do not believe in a God. We say ''panya'', wisdom, and ''dharmuddha'' is an incompatible . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' At least, you follow the leadership of Buddha.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Leadership, that's correct.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So that is, I am pointing out. Leadership . . . God means the leader. According to Vedic injunction, God means the supreme leader. ''Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām'' (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He is the chief living entity. ''Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram'' ([[BG 9.10 (1972)|BG 9.10]]). God means the supreme leader. So leader you have to accept. That is the conception of God. Either you select Buddha or Lenin or somebody else, you have to accept one leader and follow. That is your business. So our philosophy is that Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, He's the supreme leader. And we are to obey His orders. This is our philosophy.

So if you do not obey the orders of Kṛṣṇa, if you obey the orders of Lord Buddha, or somebody obeys the orders of Lenin, the principle is there that you have to follow the orders of somebody. Now, you select Lenin, Kṛṣṇa, Buddha there is Gandhi or anyone, that is a different thing. But the principle—to accept one leader and follow his leadership—is there everywhere. That nobody can change. That is not possible.

So the professor could not give me any satisfactory answer, you see. The leadership you have to accept. You cannot do anything independently. You have to accept. That is our constitutional position, that we have to follow somebody. Now you select whom you shall follow. If you are following the most perfect, then you become perfect. And if you are following less perfect or imperfect, then you are imperfect. This is our philosophy. You have to follow some leader. If your leader is perfect, then you are perfect. If your leader is not perfect, then you are also not perfect.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' How is one to find out?

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is another thing.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Yeah, that's a very important advantage, you know.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, yes. So that is another thing. Our philosophy is: God is the most perfect. Otherwise He cannot be God. So you follow God, then you become perfect. So Kṛṣṇa is teaching personally. We accept Kṛṣṇa as God. And if we follow Kṛṣṇa's instruction, then you become perfect. Where is the difficulty?

'''Indian man (1):''' There is no difficulty.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Simple thing.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' What we say is . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' If you think that Kṛṣṇa's not perfect, somebody is perfect, then you follow him.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' What we believe is that incomparable bliss and peace everlasting is the most perfect.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is . . . these are items. These are items. First of all you have to follow a perfect leader. Then whatever he says, that is perfect. So that peace, you have given a definition of peace. Kṛṣṇa is giving definition of peace:

:''bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ''
:''sarva-loka-maheśvaram''
:''suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ''
:''jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati''
:([[BG 5.29 (1972)|BG 5.29]])

"I am the proprietor of all the ''lokas''," ''sarva-loka-maheśvaram. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām'': "I am the friend of everyone." ''Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasām'': "And I am the enjoyer of all fruitive activities." ''Jñātvā mām'': "When one knows Me like that, he gets ''śānti''." This is the ''śānti'' formula given by Kṛṣṇa. One has to accept Kṛṣṇa as the supreme enjoyer. Because He's the proprietor of everything; therefore He should be enjoyer. And because everything belongs to Him—we also belong to Him—so ''suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām'', He's friend of everyone. So these three things, if you understand—Kṛṣṇa, or God, is the supreme enjoyer; He is the supreme proprietor; and He is the supreme friend of everyone—then you get ''śānti''. If we understand these three things only, then there is ''śānti''. Otherwise there is no possibility of ''śānti''.

Now, how it is fact, that is a subject matter of discussion. Say, Kṛṣṇa says that ''sarva-loka-maheśvaram'' ([[BG 5.29 (1972)|BG 5.29]]), "I am the proprietor of all the ''lokas''." And now you study this fact. Who is the proprietor? We are claiming proprietor, nation. Englishmen, they are claiming, "This land belongs to the English people." Others claiming, "This land belongs to the American," "Indian," like that. But are they actually the proprietor? Take for example the American land. Two hundred years ago, or, say . . .? How many years ago they won it?

'''Haṁsadūta:''' Four hundred ago.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Four hundred years ago. The land was there. They, these Europeans, migrated there. Now they are proprietor. So four hundred years ago, who was the proprietor? In this way, trace history. The land is there, the ocean is there, everything is there. We sometimes claim that, "I am the proprietor," "We are the proprietor," but this is lying there.

Who is actually the proprietor? Actually proprietor is God, Kṛṣṇa. ''Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam'' ([[ISO 1|ISO 1]]). Everything is owned by the supreme ''īśvara. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ'' (Bs. 5.1). So if we study scrutinizingly, then we'll find God is the proprietor actually. He is the creator; therefore He is the proprietor. And because He is the proprietor, He is friend of all, actually. ''Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati'' ([[BG 18.61 (1972)|BG 18.61]]). ''Īśvara'' is situated in everyone's heart as Paramātmā, and He's giving us good counsel. We are not abiding by that. We are disobeying. Therefore we are suffering. Otherwise, He's giving us good counsel, good advice.

So this formula, that ''bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām'' . . . ([[BG 5.29 (1972)|BG 5.29]]). So if we accept God, or Kṛṣṇa, as the supreme friend, then whatever advice He'll give me, if we follow, then I am happy. There is no difficulty. He says, ''sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja'' ([[BG 18.66 (1972)|BG 18.66]]). If we do that, we become happy. Where is the difficulty? From historical point of view . . .

Of course, no, I mean to say, religious literature is older than ''Bhagavad-gītā''. It was spoken by the Supreme Lord personally five thousand years ago. And that old thing we are presenting as it is. Our ''Bhagavad-gītā'' is therefore named ''Bhagavad-gītā'' ''As It Is''. Without any interpretation. Without any addition, alteration. No, we don't make that. If we make addition, alteration, then where is the authority of ''Bhagavad-gītā''? We don't do that.

And that is proving effective. Those who are taking according to the instruction, they're becoming happy. Practical. Without any consideration of time, country, people, anyone is accepting, and he's becoming happy. And they are not expected to undergo very severe type of austerities, neither ''prāṇāyāma'' or ''yoga''. They are unable. Simply I have advised them, "With these beads chant Hare Kṛṣṇa sixteen rounds."

They are chanting. It is very easy: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma . . . sixteen rounds. It takes about two hours. And they're refraining from four kinds of sinful activities: illicit sex, gambling, intoxication, meat-eating. This much they are following austerities, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa ''mantra'', taking ''prasādam''. They are happy. Anyone can take it. It is not difficult at all. Anyone. They are ''gṛhasthas''. It is not that one has to become a ''sannyāsī''. No. All my these disciples . . . here is a ''gṛhastha''. Here is a ''sannyāsī''. Here is a ''brahmacārī''. So all together, they are serving the same purport. And we are getting good result. You have seen our Ratha-yātrā?

'''Indian man (1):''' We were with you.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Indian man (1):''' We were with you . . . (indistinct) . . . at your feet while you were . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. So . . .

'''Indian man (1):''' It was a miracle . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . ten thousand participated.

'''Indian man (1):''' . . . my wife, she was with you, Swāmījī.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh! I think, yes.

'''Indian man (1):''' For the first time in two years, she has walked two miles.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh.

'''Indian man (1):''' It was only because of Your Grace.

'''Prabhupāda:''' (laughs) Yes, it was three miles.

'''Indian man (1):''' (laughter) And she has never walked even three hundred yards.

'''Prabhupāda:''' I also, since I became sick, I was not walking. But that, I . . .

'''Indian man (1):''' No, it was a game for us, you know. Actually, we asked to make arrangements for us to follow you, sit in the van and then follow you.

'''Prabhupāda:''' (aside) So you can distribute this ''prasāda'', little, little.

'''Indian man (1):''' Yes. It is given by Kṛṣṇa.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, after all, Kṛṣṇa's property. But it has come through George . . . (laughter)

'''Indian man (1):''' He is lucky person.

'''Prabhupāda:''' (aside) I am coming, yes.

(break) . . . ''dehaṁ punar janma naiti''. Such person, those who are fully absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, such person, after giving up this body, does not accept any more material body. He goes back to Kṛṣṇa. ''Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti'' ([[BG 4.9 (1972)|BG 4.9]]). "He comes to Me." So you cannot go to Kṛṣṇa unless you have your spiritual body. Because the spiritual world and Kṛṣṇa, they are all spiritual. So you cannot enter into fire unless you are fire. So you have to revive your spiritual body, spiritual consciousness. Then, after giving up this body, you enter the spiritual world.

So Lord Buddha did not speak anything about the spiritual world, but his philosophy said that, "Dismantle this material existence." ''Nirvāṇa''. Nobody has preached that, "You become happy here," either Lord Buddha or Lord Christ or Kṛṣṇa or anybody, Śaṅkara. Nobody. But modern materialistic people, they are thinking that, "We can become happy by adjustment of our material condition." That is not possible.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' They want to have the cake and eat it.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' They want to have the cake and eat it. They want to have two paradises—one here and one there also.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' And they want to bite.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, they have no idea of any other paradise than this paradise. They have no idea.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Which to us is the fools' paradise.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That . . . again I am quoting that Professor Kotovsky. He said: "Swāmījī, after this body there is no life." That is their conviction. This is the primary teaching of spiritual life, that we have got next life. ''Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Dehāntaram.'' After giving up this body, you have to accept another body. This is the first lesson of spiritual education. But they do not understand the first lesson even. What is their spiritual understanding?

:''dehino 'smin yathā dehe''
:''kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā''
:''tathā dehāntara-prāptir''
:''dhīras tatra na muhyati''
:([[BG 2.13 (1972)|BG 2.13]])

So ''dehāntara-prāptiḥ'' they do not understand. And it is very easy that, "I am, ''dehāntaram'', I am changing my body. I was a baby, I was a child, I was a boy, I was a young man. So I have changed so many bodies. But I remember I was a child. I remember I was a boy. I remember. Therefore I am existing. My body has changed." Simple truth. Similarly, when this body will be changed, I will exist. Where is the difficulty to understand?

But this plain thing they cannot understand. And they are passing as educated, philosopher, scientist. This plain truth is they cannot understand. The brain is so dull. ''Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ'' ([[BG 2.13 (1972)|BG 2.13]]). "As I have changed so many bodies . . ." I exist. I remember, I had this body. So I may forget. Suppose in my babyhood, what was the feature of my body I do not know. But there was. My mother knows.

He can . . . she can explain, "My dear child, you were like this, you were like this." So forgetfulness is also not that I did not exist. I may not remember my last birth. That does not mean I did not exist. So forgetfulness is my nature. I cannot remember even what I was doing exactly this time yesterday, if somebody asks me. I can generally speak that "I was sitting," but actually what I was doing, I'll have to remember.

So the forgetfulness is our nature. Because I have forgotten . . . death means forgetting. Just like in dream, at night, when we get another body and dream and hover, we go somewhere and talk with somebody, we forget about this body. And again, when I come to this body, I awaken, I forget the dreaming body.

So I . . . every day I am forgetting. At night I am forgetting this body, and daytime I am forgetting my night body. So forgetfulness is not the basic principle of knowledge. The things as they are we have to study. That body we change, but we are, as living entity, we are existing. ''Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre'' ([[BG 2.20 (1972)|BG 2.20]]). This is confirmed by authorities. ''Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre.'' After destruction of this body, the soul is not destroyed. The soul continues. He accepts another body. Now, what sort of body we have to accept, that is responsibility.

:''yānti deva-vratā devān''
:''pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ''
:''bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni''
:''mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām''
:([[BG 9.25 (1972)|BG 9.25]])

So about the next life, change of body, you can prepare yourself. ''Yānti deva-vratā devān'': If you prepare your life to go to the higher planetary system, the moon planet, the Venus planet, and other—there are thousands and millions of planets—you can go. ''Yānti deva-vratā devān'' . . . it is clearly stated. ''Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ'': "You can go to the Pitṛloka planets." Or ''bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni'': "If you want to remain here, you can remain." ''Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām'': "And if you like, you can come to Me." Everything is there.

So next life there is. I'll have to accept a body, and there are eight million . . . (break) . . . you prefer. But Kṛṣṇa says that whichever body we accept, it is subjected to the four miserable condition: birth, death, old age and disease. Even Brahmā. He has got millions and millions of years' duration of life, but still, he has to die. So anywhere in the material world you have to undergo the material tribulations: birth, death, old age and disease.

Here an ant's life may be for few hours, and my life may be for few years. So it is a question of hours and years, but one has to die. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, ''ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna'' ([[BG 8.16 (1972)|BG 8.16]]): "Even if you go to the Brahmaloka, the topmost planet, there also, you'll have to die and again accept another body." This will go on. ''Mad-dhāma gatvā, punar janma na vidyate'' (Gītā-māhātmya 5). "But if you come to Me, then you don't come back to accept a material body again."

So why not try for that? If I have to endeavor for my next better life, so why not accept the supermost life, eternal life? That is intelligence, and that is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that you try in this life to get back your spiritual life and come back to Kṛṣṇa, the eternal home, and live there peacefully, eternally, without any disturbance of birth, death, old age, disease. This is our program.

(guests entering or leaving) Jaya. Kitna door hai aap logo ka residence idhar se? (How far is your residence from here?)

'''Indian man (1):''' Fifteen minutes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh! So whenever you find time . . .

'''Indian man (1):''' It's only a question of time and your convenience.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, I am . . . I am for your service.

'''Guest (2) (British man):''' Thank you very much indeed. Thank you very much.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Come again.

'''Guest (2):''' Thank you very much.

'''Indian man (1):''' This is ''Bhakti''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. ''Bhakti-latā'', very good.

'''Indian man (1):''' Pair chu loon? (May I touch your feet?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's nice. She is your eldest daughter?

'''Indian man (1):''' No, she's my sister.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sister. Oh, I see.

'''Indian man (1):''' She's getting married on this day. My pitaji. Tauji! Aap saamne . . . (My father is here. Uncle. You are in front . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Kitna umar hua aapka? (How old are you?)

'''Guest (2):''' 73 years.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Acha. (Okay.) Mataji bhi sab idhar hi hai? (Your mother and everyone else are also here?)

'''Indian man (1):''' Aapne keh diya toh aa jayenge. (Now that you have mentioned it, she will also come.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Aaj aayi nahi kya? Aap le aayiye. (She did not come today? You please get her too.)

'''Guest (2):''' No, I've come from, er, about thirty miles away.

'''Prabhupāda:''' You often then really come here? No.

'''Guest (2):''' No.

'''Prabhupāda:''' This is first time you are coming?

'''Guest (2):''' First time I've been here, yeah.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. (aside) What is this, "K.C.C. ''Ghee''"?

'''Indian man (1):''' ''Ghee''.

'''Śrutakīrti:''' ''Ghee''. I don't know where it's from.

'''Prabhupāda:''' K.C.C?

'''Śrutakīrti:''' Nairobi, Kenya. It was made and packed by . . .

'''Haṁsadūta:''' Brahmānanda. (laughter)

'''Prabhupāda:''' That ''ghee'', Nairobi, is very nice ''ghee''.

'''Śrutakīrti:''' Yes, very good.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Australia also.

'''Śrutakīrti:''' And New Zealand.

'''Prabhupāda:''' This ''ghee''-producing animal, and they're killing. Just see how much injustice. They have no sense even. I exact from you all the resources, and then I kill you. What is this?

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' For no other reason but for greed again.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Simply . . . I have seen. I was telling that these people take meat, a small slice, not very much. But because they are taking, everyone, so many slaughterhouse are maintained. If they give up little, and we can replace it by other thing, then so many lives are saved. Swāmījī, if you . . . your most philosophical thesis is ''ahiṁsā'', you can teach them, and that will help us also.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' If they only want to use their minds. ''Mano pugbanga ma dhamra mano sikta manomaya, manasarthe palitena vahasati va karoti va, thako mam sukham amreti cakra'' . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Mind.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Mind, right. If you can make people use their minds.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So therefore we are trying to engage the mind in Kṛṣṇa. ''Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane'' ([[SB 9.4.18-20|SB 9.4.18]]). Mind has to be engaged on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, and talk, only glorifying Kṛṣṇa. Then things will come out nice.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' But many people are acting more on emotions and feelings than on their mind. ''Mano manas mano'' is disappearing with many people, except to make some money. So . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Every . . . everything has two sides, black side and bright side. We are interested with the bright side. Black side we can point out, but anyone who is sincere, he'll take the bright side. ''Saj-janā guṇam icchanti doṣam icchanti pāmaraḥ''. There are ''guṇa'' and ''doṣa'', fault and good qualities. So those who are ''sajjana'', they take the good qualities, give up the bad qualities. Then there, gradually things will come out. But if we accept God, God is all-good; then all good qualities automatically manifest. ''Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ'' ([[SB 5.18.12|SB 5.18.12]]). All good qualities manifest. If you remain with the fire, you become warm. The quality is acquired. If you remain in the sunshine, you become warm. Because sun is warm. So you acquire the quality. So if we remain always with Kṛṣṇa, then we acquire the qualities of Kṛṣṇa.

So God is all-good. Therefore I become good by association with God. It is very simple reasoning. Yes. God is all-good. So if you remain always with God, then you become good. The same example: if you remain with fire, you become warm, the quality of the fire. If you remain in sunshine, you become warm. And the more you remain, the more you become warmer, warmer. Then become hot. Yes. Just like you put one rod, iron rod in the fire. It becomes warm, warmer, warmer. Then it will be red hot. When it is red hot, it is no longer iron rod; it is fire. Touch anywhere, it will burn.

(pause) So from Nairobi they import ''ghee'' here, I take.

'''Śrutakīrti:''' Yes. Brahmānanda Mahārāja was saying many fruits also get to England. He said in Africa they have many nice fruits, but you can't buy them in Africa. They ship them all to England. Although they're all grown there, you can't get nice fruit in Africa.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Neither the Africans like to eat.

'''Śrutakīrti:''' No.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, they don't. Yes. God has created different foodstuff for different living entities.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' But they interpret that God created them also for their consumption.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' They interpret that they have . . . the God has created the cattle also for their food.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. But that is . . . the cattle food is food for the non-civilized man. If you claim to be civilized, you cannot eat.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' (laughs) "Live and let live." That's what I have been asking people wherever I go. They talk of culture, civilization, progress, development, living standards, education, equality, freedom, lots of things. I ask them to define this, and I ask them, "The animals are of two types: the carnivorous and the vegetarian. Of course, the carnivorous looks even fiercer. But where has one found in the forest so many thousands of animals slaughtered and lying at random? But man today, in the name of progress and civilization . . ."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Very, very good. Yes.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Yeah. So they have gone, according to me, lower than our animal brothers.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Certainly, certainly. Your argument is very good.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Of course, it's very, very . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' In the forest there is no slaughterhouse, although they are carnivorous animals.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Is the only way.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So actually in India the meat-eaters were always, but there was no slaughterhouse. The meat-eaters, they were allowed that "You can sacrifice one goat before the goddess Kālī and eat it." That means once in a month, restriction. And individual person . . . but no slaughterhouse. What is this nonsense, slaughterhouse? Big, big slaughterhouse. Trade with slaughterhouse. This is the . . . even, even in India during Muhammadan period, there was no slaughterhouse. Individual, if he liked, he can kill one animal and eat. No slaughterhouse.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' No mass slaughters. No mass slaughters.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No. This is from the Western world. This is very nice argument, that in the jungle there are carnivorous animals, but they don't maintain slaughterhouse. Neither they attack unless they are hungry. Otherwise, in Africa, there is national . . .

'''Haṁsadūta:''' Park.

'''Prabhupāda:''' All the animals are freely rotating.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Or they think their life is in danger.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' If one radiates love and kindness . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is another thing. Defense is allowed to everyone. You must defend. That is another thing. But ordinarily, not that because a lion has got jaws and teeth, therefore he's simply jumping over. Not like that. Even people have experienced that when the, these ferocious animals, they are not hungry, they don't attack. They don't attack.

'''Haṁsadūta:''' They don't bother.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No. Or if you keep a pet lion, give him sumptuously to eat, he'll not . . . that is experienced. I have seen in the World Fair in, in . . . one man was keeping a lion and a tiger, and playing just like with dog. Just like sometimes dogs, they pounce over the master. Same thing. They were doing like that. I have seen it. They have tamed the lion and tiger like that.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Even the carnivores could be trained to be vegetarians.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, yes.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' They could easily be. It is only a habit and custom.

'''Prabhupāda:''' But their nature is to eat meat. You have to give him. That is different thing. But they can be tamed. But not very trustworthy. (laughter)

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' If they get a little irritated and hungry, they may go to gather.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, if you give them nice food, they'll never attack you.

'''Haṁsadūta:''' In the Bible also, in the very beginning page, there's a verse. After God created everything, the animals and the trees and everything, then He gave allotment of food to the human society. It says very plainly that, "The seed-bearing plants and trees of the earth shall be your meat," or "shall be your food."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Just see.

'''Haṁsadūta:''' And it says nothing . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Vegetables.

'''Haṁsadūta:''' It says nothing about . . . yes.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' Yes, but later it goes to add something saying: "Meat is meat unto you," you know. There your difficulty comes in. Well, Isaiah in the Bible, one of five prophets in the Bible, he says: "Peace will come on earth when even the feroci . . ."

(break) May you have long, healthy life.

'''Prabhupāda:''' What is your age?

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' I am fifty-nine years.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh.

'''Buddhist Monk (1):''' We say, ''arogya parama labha santuṣṭi paramam dhanam, viśvasa parama narthi nirvāṇa parama sva''-''dharma''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hare Kṛṣṇa. ''Jaya''. (end)

720302 - Conversation with Lalita Prasad - Birnagar

2024-02-07T04:58:07Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"

[[Category:1972 - Conversations]]
[[Category:1972 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1972 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1972-03 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Conversations - India]]
[[Category:Conversations - India, Calcutta]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Calcutta]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Bengali Snippets]]
[[Category:Audio Files 90.01 Minutes or More]]
[[Category:1972 - New Audio - Released in December 2015]]
[[Category:1972 - New Transcriptions - Released in December 2015]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Conversations - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Conversations - by Date|Conversations by Date]], [[:Category:1972 - Conversations|1972]]'''</div>
{{RandomImage}}

<div class="code">720302TA-BIRNAGAR - March 02, 1972 - 139:44 Minutes</div>

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1972/720302TA-BIRNAGAR_Bengali-English.mp3</mp3player>

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Accha. (Well) . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ekbare ghure asi, eibar sob thik thak hobe. (Everything will be alright once I return from this trip.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . ami ki raibo . . . (can I be rest assured?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya, Hya niscintye. (Yes, yes surely.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . Amar boi dekhabo, hater lekha . . . ami dekhiye debo apnake (Will show you my book, written by hand . . . I will show you . . .) (indistinct Bengali)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Kothay? Maa kothay? (Where's your mother?)

'''Boy:''' Maa prasad pacchen. (She's taking ''prasada''.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Prasad pacche. (Taking ''prasada''?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct) . . . ta, apni khub khusi hoben? (. . . so, you will be happy?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Khub. (A lot.) So, Bhavānanda is sleeping in the car?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Yes he is feeling sick.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct) . . . Erakam, erakam onek . . . onek . . . (indistinct) . . . ache. (Like this, like this, there are many . . . many . . . (indistinct) . . . have.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya, ta to thakbe. (Yes, that'll be there.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Seiguno apni . . . ami yodi koredi, egulo tobe to purna brahman hobe. Pratijaner mangal hobe . . . bokar moto bole debo . . . (These things you . . . if I do that, then one will get full Brahman. Everyone will be blessed . . . I will say like a fool . . .) . . . (indistinct Bengali)

'''Boy:''' Dadu, apnar bichnar cadar din to . . . (Grandfather, give your bedcover . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:'''Ki? (What?)

'''Boy:''' Bed coverta den, dekhiye dite hobe . . . (Please give me your bedcover, it has to be shown . . .)

1:49 - 1:55 (audio repeats)

'''Boy:''' ''Dadu'', Your bed cover . . .

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . oh, I see . . . what?

'''Boy:''' Show me which bed-cover . . .

'''Boy:''' Please give me your bed-cover, it have to be shown . . .

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Oh, accha. (Oh yes, oh yes . . .) (indistinct)

(indistinct background talk) (audio disruption)

'''Gurudas:''' . . . the United States. In 1938 cause Bhaktivinod Ṭhākura had said that he shouldn't go. He said I tried to disobey him.

(indistinct Bengali conversation) (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' (indistinct Bengali) . . . Amra ekhon yacchi. (We are leaving now.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Apni yaben kibhabe . . . (How can you go now . . .) . . . (indistinct Bengali)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eikhanete . . . amar kache sob . . . onek sob meyera asche . . . (indistinct) . . . bari kinbo ar apni sob dekhasuna korben. (Over here there was . . . many girls come and join my movement . . . (indistinct) . . . will buy a house and you will look after all these.)

(conversation in the background) (break)

'''Lady:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . kirtan . . . bari korle . . . (kirtana . . . built a house . . .)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' You just got started on this?

'''Jayapataka:''' (indistinct) . . . started already

'''Lady:''' Amader baro baro shiksha . . . (We had big big teaching sessions . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Tumi ya shikhecho sob . . . (Whatever you've learned, everything . . .)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Let's just finish.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Bhaktivinod Thakura sikshaoto eki. (Teachings of Bhaktivinoda Thakura are also the same . . .)

'''Lady:''' Tai, sei sob . . . (Yes, all that . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ekta katha ache . . . (I have one thing to say . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Na bolleto hoy na . . . (It's not possible not to say it . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' What?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct whispers)

'''Lady:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct) . . . natun shiksha, alocana korbo (. . . new teachings, we will discuss later.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. Pore korbo . . . accha, tahole ami collum. (We'll discuss later . . . all right, I'll take leave . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct) Ami dekhabo . . . boi gulo thik ache? (I will show you ok?)

'''Lady:''' Accha, dandavat. (All right, ''dandavat''.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Dandavat''.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . dui din dhore ekhane thakben na? (Are you not going to stay here for two days?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eibar ese thakbo. (Next time when I will come, I will stay.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . apni nije . . . eka. Dui din . . . (. . . all by yourself . . . alone for two days . . .) (indistinct Bengali)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya. (Yes.)

'''Lady:''' Bolchi, guru paramparar katha . . . bujhte parchen? (Regarding ''guru parampara'' . . . are you getting?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

'''Lady:''' Oi bhaktara guru paramparar kathar bisaye sei bolche . . . (A devotee mentioned about ''guru parampara'' . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya, hya. (Yes, yes.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

(devotees talking)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya . . . (Yes . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (whispers)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm . . .

'''Lady:''' Ki ki abasta sei hoyeche, seigulo bolche, sob janen ei gulo bolche . . . (He's narrating our plight and the situation . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

(break) (indistinct talking)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sob thik thak kora yabe na? (We can settle everything?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. Seto amar yete hobe. Ar Bombay yodi asen tahole to khub bhalo hoy. Bombay aste parbena? Take ami kharca debo sob. (Oh. Then I have to leave. If he can come to Bombay, then that will be good. Can't he come to Bombay? I can take care of the expenses.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . na, na, tara onek kharca diye geche. (. . . no no, they have given sufficient money for expenses.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . asharamer lokera bahu kharca diye niye geche. (People from ashram. Given enough for expenses.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Accha. (All right.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . ar telegram karo Hrshikesh prabhuke . . . (and sent a telegram to Hrshikesh prabhu . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Tar sange na dekha hole ki kore kaj hobe? (Unless I meet him, how will the work get done?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hobe kaj (It will get done . . .) (indistinct Bengali) . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya. Apni thakte . . . (Yes. While you are here . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Tahole take telegram kore anao na. (Why don't you send a telegram and get him to come here.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Boy:''' Eito or chuti furiye geche. (His leave is over.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh.

'''Boy:''' Asbe. (That he will come . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Seto America, asbe kar theke . . . chuti . . . (He has a job . . . his leave is . . .) (indistinct Bengali)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ami Kolkata te . . . khub jor aat tarikh abdi thakbo. Sei lok se er bhetare asbe? (I will be in Calcutta . . . maximum till the 8th. Will he be able to come by then?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hya. (Yes.)

'''Boy:''' Oi maser aat tarikh? (The 8th of next month?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Na, ei maser. (No, this month.)

'''Boy:''' Oh. Hya, hya er modhye. (Oh. Yes, yes, within this . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ei maser mane . . . aj, March maser dosra to . . . (This month means . . . today, is the 2nd of March . . .)

'''Boy:''' Hya. (Yes.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . accha, se yai koruk, ami to royechi ar Maharaj . . . bhayer ki ache? Ya hoy, kono cinta korbe na. Se ya bolbo tai korte hobe take. (All right, whatever he does, I am here and Mahārāja . . . what's to fear? Whatever will be, no need to worry. Whatever I will say, that he has to abide.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Accha . . . (All right . . .) (indistinct)

'''Lady:''' . . . eikhane ei . . . ei . . . Uttam Thakurer mandir dekhechen? (Did you see the temple here built by Uttam Thakura?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Uni bolchen sono . . . (indistinct) . . . uni bolchen ye, dakshin ko . . . (indistinct) . . . purba kore . . . (indistinct) . . . pechane hoye yabe. (Listen to what he's saying . . . (indistinct) . . . he's saying that the south . . . (indistinct) . . . east sided . . . (indistinct) . . . that will be back side.)

'''Lady:''' Pub mukho mandirer mukh to . . . ta amader choto mandiroto purba mukha mandir royeche. (The temple is facing east . . . and our small temple is also east facing.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Oito . . . (indistinct) . . . pase thaklei bhalo hoy . . . (That . . . (indistinct) . . . better if it stays beside . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Pase thaklei bhalo hoy . . . (Better if it stays beside . . .)

'''Lady:''' Tahole uttar mukha hobe? (Then that will be north facing?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Uttar mukha uni bolchen hoy na. (He's saying that it must not face north. That's not the standard.)

'''Lady:''' Uttar mukha konodin bari dite pare na . . . (A house is never should be north facing . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Dakshin mukha hoy ar purba mukha hoy. (It must either face south or east.)

'''Lady:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Tahole, oi jami jaygay, ami boli kon jaygay mandirer kono portion ber kore . . . (indistict) . . . choto . . . (indistinct) . . . apnara baro kore mandir korben. (Then the land, I am saying that some portion, in the temple some portion have to be demarcated . . . (indistinct) . . . the small one . . . (indistinct) . . . all of you will build a big temple.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Na, na, ota baro mandire dhukiye dite hobe. (No, that has to be placed within the big temple.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya. (Yes.)

'''Lady:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Lady:''' Hya, sei. (Yes, That's right.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Baro mandir yeta hobe. Bhaktivinod Thakur . . . (The big temple. That will be made. Is Bhaktivinoda Thakura's . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ei paryanta kete, aro ucu kore . . . (By cutting this portion, by raising it more higher . . .)

'''Lady:''' (indistinct) . . . ami bolchi ye, Prabhuke taratari sange kore ene mapa mapi thik kore, sthan thik kore rakhen . . . (I'm saying that let Prabhu quickly decide and demarcate the land . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . dekhun, ami . . ami . . . (Look, I am . . . I'm . . .) (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Pukurta khub bhalo kore pariskar kore . . . (The pond also has to be cleansed properly . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Na . . . (indistinct) . . . korito . . . (No . . . (indistinct) . . . all were done . . .)

'''Lady:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . badh tairi kore nice abdi korechi, nongra hoye gele ami ki korbo? (. . . by making a dam, I have cleaned up to the bottom, if it gets dirty, what can I do?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, na . . . lokjon nai . . . lokjon to pahara . . . (Oh, that . . . there are no people . . . people need for guard . . .)

'''Lady:''' Lokjoner abhab . . . pariskar . . . (There's a dearth of help . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Pahara . . . hoye yabe . . . (Guard . . . will happen . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oita ekta bhalo park er moton kora hobe. (That will be made into a good park.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hya, kora yabe. Ar bolchi ye, khanik pore, amader eiye, ei jamir koler oi dikta. Decorate korun na bhalo kore. (Yes, that can be done. And what I'm saying is that after sometime, After this part of the land, on that side. Why don't you decorate it nicely.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sob, bhalo bagan, age park ar or bhitare mandir. (All these. A good garden, a park and the temple within these.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ar baki gulo cas-bas hok na. (And let there be farming in the rest of the land.)

'''Lady:''' Prabhu, pratham ye paisa pathiyechilen, tar jonyeto golap bagan korechilen . . . (Prabhu, when he first got money, he made a rose garden with that . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . panera hajar taka diye . . . (with fifteen thousand rupees . . .)

'''Lady:''' . . . (indistinct) . . . cole gelo, ar sob mali, barojan mali theke phul bagane jal dito, se sob mali paliye gelo. Ar to eisob drabya, mulya hoye gelo . . . (indistinct) . . . ar se paisar abhab hoye gelo . . . (they left, and the gardeners Twelve gardeners. who were watering the flowers garden, ran away. And then everything became very expensive . . . (indistinct) . . . and there was a shortage of money . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . lokjan ra nao, nijera korte hoy. (not with outside people, it has to be done on our own.)

'''Lady:''' Ar se malir abhabi pradhan. Ekhonto ekti jayga chilo, tao . . . (The main problem is a lack of a gardener. Earlier there was some space, that too . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Era yodi nijera keu, keu kaj karta, ati sundar gach tairi hoy tobe . . . (If they can do it by themselves then a beautiful plantation can be made but . . .)

'''Lady:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Mali tali . . . kiram maine ney era? Malira? (How much salary do the gardeners take over here?)

'''Lady:''' Tin taka car ana daily nebe, eram abasta. Ekjan nebe ar . . . (Three rupees and twenty-five ''paisa'' daily, this is the situation. One person will take and . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Lady:''' Bhalo mali cai? Sattor taka, nabbai taka khaoa para diye. Erakam cay . . . (It works out for a good gardener to seventy rupees, ninety rupees per month with food. They demand like this . . .) (indistinct Bengali)

'''Jayapataka:''' Baro mali esche. (Renowned gardeners are there.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

'''Jayapataka:''' Kolkatar mali. (Gardeners from Calcutta.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' The labour charge is three to four rupees every day.

'''Lady:''' Eta sara phul bagan chilo. Foreigner sob golap, ki sundar sob phul, samasta . . . (All these here were flower gardens. Beautiful roses of foreign, also other beautiful flowers, all . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Take ektu bolbe ye, "tomar ye dena ache diye dicche tumi aso". (Tell him that, "all your debt will be paid off, you come back".)

'''Acyutānanda:''' To pay off that gardeners debt.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Well I have already promised him to pay all his debts but he, he said yes but he did not come. I am prepared to pay whatever his debt.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct Bengali) . . . (indistinct) . . . bujhte parcho? (Do you understand?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yodi tini amar gaye, amar sangei thakto, taholei to katha . . . (If he stays in my village with me, then I can talk . . .) . . . (indistinct Bengali)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Lady:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . maai karabe. Maai karabe age . . . ei maa ke . . . maa kane yabe? Harinamo colbe abar edikeo (Mother will arrange to make it. Mother will arrange . . . mother . . . where mother will go? Harinama will also continue and on the other side . . .) . . . (indistinct Bengali)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oiye society ta register korechilen to? (Did you register the society?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hya . . (Yes . . .)

(indistinct conversation)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Kagajta ache to? (Are the papers there?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . originalta nei, ar ki cai? Debo . . . (except the original, do you need anything else? Will give . . .)

(indistinct conversation)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Originalta dekha yabe to? (Can I see the original?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hya, original dekhato . . . (Yes, show him the original . . .)

'''Devotee:''' Konta? (Which one?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Oiye . . . khamer modhye . . . (That . . . may be inside the envelope . . .)

'''Devotee:''' Baksa ta? (The box?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Bakse ache? (Is it in the box?)

'''Devotee:''' Govinda jabe. (Govinda knows.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Namabi, amar kalke darkar . . . iye porbe, bar kore an. (Get those down, I need it tomorrow . . . he will read, take out and give.)

'''Devotee:''' Koi er modhye to? (Into this?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Dakde na, Govinda ke dak de. (Call Him. Call Govinda.)

'''Devotee:''' Govinda Da. Edike asoto. (Govinda Da. (older brother) Please come here.)

Govinda: Han. (Yes.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Amar iye ta de to Govinda . . . (Govinda please give me, my that . . .)

(Indistinct conversation)

'''Devotee:''' Cabi. Edike khola ache. (Key. Oh it's open from this side.)

'''Lady:''' Durga thakurer yerakam, yebhabe ache ei maper bhetarei karate hobe to? (Will it be done like the same size, of our Durga deity?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' (indistinct) . . . hya, otei . . . (yes, that's the one . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

Govinda: Hmm, hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Pechane, sesh bhage, pechan dike. Pack kar. Ekbar dekhiye dicche, original ta, original ta . . . oi trunk te original ta. (Backside, at the end, backside. See. Will show you. The original, the original . . . the original one is in the trunk.)

(sound of trunk)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . ami dekhlum, eta yodi amar niye rakhi . . . amar bhaipo sob oi rakam . . . sob . . . (indistinct) . . . khoka abar nasta korbe . . . ar . . . ar amar, badha diye . . . Hari-nam . . . boi chapay, badha diyeche . . . amake badha diyeche, aj ami ekti school khulte partum, amake tao badh diyeche . . . (indistinct) . . . jor kore beriye gelam . . . (indistinct) . . . ekhane oder kache thakle kicchu korte dilo na . . . (indistinct) . . . Hari-nam . . . (I thought that, if I keep with me . . . my nephew's, all like that . . . (indistinct) . . . will destroy all . . . and my, my . . . hindered . . . the Hari-nam . . . book printing, they have opposed . . . they have opposed me, now I could open a school, but they have opposed me . . . (indistinct) . . . forcefully I came out . . . (indistinct) . . . because they will not let me do anything if I stay with them . . . (indistinct) . . . Hari-nam . . .) (indistinct Bengali)

(break) (indistinct conversation)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Pele na. (Haven't you got it.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Don't keep there. There is tendency of falling down.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' I'll just wash my hands then I'll sit it nicely.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct Bengali conversation)

'''Devotee:''' . . . registration of company yar . . . (. . . registration of company . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hya, registration company. Eiye, eti. (Yes registration of company. Here, here it is.)

'''Devotee:''' . . . Bhaktivinode-goṣṭhī.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hya. Eta nakal na asol ta? (Yes. Is it a duplicate or the original one?)

'''Devotee:''' . . . registration.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Eiye . . . (Here . . .) (indistinct Bengali)

'''Devotee:''' Eta ki? (What is this?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Nao, emni khule niye yao. (Take this, open and take it off.) (break) . . . (indistinct) . . . ''goṣṭhī''

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . gosthi holo, paribar . . . (what means by ''goṣṭhī'', it is a family . . .)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Hmm. Ah. Family.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' And who who will declare that . . . (indistinct) . . . a religious ceremony he will have Full power . . . he can do everything.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' (laughs)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Śevite?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' These are the Śevite?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Śrī Sevites.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Śrī Sevites.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Śevite has more importance than anybody . . . (indistinct)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Then there is the signature of the seven persons.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Rules and regulations?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' . . . of Śrī Bhaktivinode-goṣṭhī. Constitution. Constitution. This charitable religious literary association or society called Śrī Bhaktivinode-goṣṭhī is constituted and composed of seven members. Some of them paying subscription annually, and others for life paying subscriptions at a time. Including the Śevite of the Ulla Śrī Bhaktivinode Dvāras Mandir in the municipal town of Birnagar in the district of Nadia, West Bengal and the goṣṭhīpati of the society. All of whom will form the mem . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Goṣṭhīpathi of the society . . . of Vṛndāvana? Gosthipati ke? (Who is ''goṣṭhīpati''?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Huh? Gosthipati ami. (I am ''goṣṭhīpati''.)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' He's ''goṣṭhīpati''.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' All of whom will form the managing executive committee and governing body, and will be eligible to become office bearers and will hold posts as - 1. President and Vice president. 2. Secretary and joint or assistant secretaries. 3. Treasurer and 4. Librarian, oh no. 5. Treasurer and librarian. 6. Accountant. 7. Auditor. 8. Manager. 9. ''Goṣṭhīpathi''. 10. Sevite and his assistants to perform seva and ''pūjā'' of deities at the said ''Mandir''. And will hold any other post or posts which will be created afterwards by the committee as under the rules. Subscription of life member shall be annually 300 rupees at a time.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Onader na bolle to, prastut hoy na. (If it's not specified, then they won't be ready.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm

'''Śyāmasundara:''' The subscription for ordinary member shall be rupees one per month or rupees 12 per annum.

'''Prabhupāda:''' 300 for whom?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Life members.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm, life members.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' At a time.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Tahole, Oh . . . (Then, Oh . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . kore diyechi ami, tarpor public korche . . . ye, ya hok yoga yog kora hoyeche . . . se asbe . . . ami yato din bece achi . . . (I have added, then the public is doing . . . somehow, in whatever way, they will communicate . . . and come . . . but 'till the time I am living . . .) (laughs) . . . (indistinct)

Amarto sob nasta kore diyeche . . . onek larai korechi ami. Amader ekhane nasta korbe? Ar na. (My everything they have spoiled . . . I fought a lot. Will spoil everything here at our place? Not any more.)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' These members will be solely and wholly in charge of the money.

'''Gurudas:''' Who?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' These members.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Those are . . .

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Seven member.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Technical constitution.Technical constitution.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Yeah.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Under laws of . . . (indistinct) . . . illegal.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' (laughs)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Those are written according to the legal . . .

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Legal code?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Yeah. These, these seven members? . . . (indistinct) . . . says these members. That is the seven members? . . . (indistinct) . . . says these members. That is the seven members?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Seven members regular members

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Yeah.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' They are always holding on this)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Yeah.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' And others, the others, lot's of members. Thousand and thousand members . . . (indistinct) . . . account what has gone wrong? (laughs)

(indistinct Bengali)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' It sounds like our constitution.

'''Prabhupāda:''' It is the same.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' (laughs)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Dekhabo onake. (Will show him.) . . . (indistinct)

'''Lady:''' Na, daber jal. (No, water of green coconut.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Daber jal, khub bhalo lage. (Water of green coconut, that's good.)

'''Lady:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . in my own mind . . . (indistinct)

'''Devotee:''' Ar debo? (Shall give more?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Aro ache? (Is there more?)

'''Devotee:''' Hya. (Yes.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Dao. (Give me.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Only challenge, who will be secretary? And who will be the . . . (laughs)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Oh, eita hate lekha . . . (Oh, this is written by hand . . .) this is handwritten? We shall try . . . (indistinct)

'''Jayapataka:''' Yogapith kono katha ache? (Is there any writings on Yogapitha?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Na, yogapith rakhte cai ni. Yogapith . . . apnader Guru chilo . . . (No, did not want to keep a Yogapitha. Yogapitha . . . your Guru was there . . .)

'''Jayapataka:''' Sadananda Sukherkoli?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Sadananda sukherkoli . . . (indistinct) . . . ekdike chilo bengal . . . (at one side was Bengal . . .) govt. . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . amar bhaira sob oirakam apni janen to, sob anya rakam . . . age oigulo nasta kore ditei byasta. Ta ami oderke tyag korbo . . . (indistinct) . . . keno tumi . . . oke . . . ami sune eichi (you know the type of my brothers, they are different . . . they were eager to spoil these first. When I decided to leave them . . . (indistinct) . . . why you will . . . him . . . I listen to all these) . . . (indistinct Bengali) . . . sob amar pac hajar boi nasta kore diyeche . . . curi kore niye geche . . . (indistinct Bengali) . . . (have spoiled five thousand books . . . they took away by stealing.) Five thousand. Invaluable. Finished. We will never get those stocks in the library. Kept five thousand books . . . again I purchased . . . and locked there . . . (indistinct) . . . you take book and go out.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Is library here?

'''Devotee:''' Yes. We purchased the . . . (indistinct)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' And, and . . . (indistinct) . . . amar lekhapara nasta korarbar jonya ora . . . ora ekdom . . . (to destroy my reading and writings they are . . .)

(Bengali conversation)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Amar mone hoy . . . ye, amader ye society ache . . . (I think . . . just as we have our society . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hya. (Yes.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ei bhabe . . . (Same way . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Eki bhabe . . . (The same way . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eki bhabe . . . (Same way . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' To, apnader society amaderke . . . amader society ke, eta lease diye dik. (So, your society can give us, our society, a lease.) For development. Tahole, simple hoye yabe. Apnader ya management ache thak. Kintu ei jaygata, samasta develope korbar jonye, (Then, it will become simple. Let the management remain with you. But for the development of this place,) we hold the lease from you.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' For how many years? Legal limit ache. (There are legal limits.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Legal limit, so 99 years.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' 99 years.

'''Prabhupāda:''' (indistinct) . . . kore den. Taholei sob amra arambha kore di. Apnader ya constitution thak. Amader constitution amader kache. Kintu eta lease, amra sob develop kori. Bas . . . (you do it. Then we can start. Let your constitution remain the same. We have our own constitution. Only on lease we will develop this place. That's all.) Simple fact.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Tahole amader member der deke, decision kora yak. (That means now we have to convene a meeting of the members and make a decision.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya. (Yes.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Huh? Eito? (That's what you mean to say?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Kore. Bas. Amader ekta lease kore den, ar amra arambha kore di kaj. Kaj ar ki hobe, mandir tairi hobe, bagan tairi hobe, park tairi hobe. Eisob dash-panera jan ekhane thakbe. Apnader lok ache kirtan hobe . . . ei hobe, ar ki. (After doing that, that's all. You prepare the lease for us, and we can begin work. Then, the temple, garden and park can be built. Ten or fifteen people will come to stay here. You also have some people they will have ''kirtana'' . . . this is what will happen.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Eito jinish . . . tai jonyeito hoyeche, naile onno kichur jonye hoyni to. (This place is there only for these things, not for anything else.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Onya kichur jonye hoyni to? (Does this happen for anything else?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ekhane kau ke dhukte dini, kono . . . (indistinct) . . . aste dini. (I haven't allowed anyone to come here, any . . . (indistinct) . . . I haven't allowed.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sutarang, (Therefore,) simple lease for so many years, with option to revive. Eram bhabe ekta khali lease kore den, bas hoye gelo. (Just make a lease like this, and it's done.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Huh? Ki bollen? (What did you say?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eram ekta lease kore den. (Please make a lease.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hya. (Yes.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Bas, ato gift korte hobena. Gift korar darkar nei. (That's all, you don't have to gift. There's no need for gift.) We don't want proprietorship, you give us lease.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Lease.

'''Prabhupāda:''' For 99 years. For development, that's all. Tarpore amra sob kore nebo. Amader lok thakbe, apnader lok thakbe, seva, puja hobe. (After that we will do everything. Your people will be there, and our people will be there to render service and worship.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hya. (Yes.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Er er er . . . ekla, ei paryanta ya, ta ghot te thakuk . . . (Alone, let it remain 'till this . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' To thak. (Let it remain.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ar odik ya ache . . . (And on that side whatever is there . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya, odik ta, oidikta amader lease kore dao. (Yes, that side, just give us lease for that side.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Seram dharaner bod mais. (Here the boys are notorious.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eta apnader . . . (This thing of yours . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Eiye amaro icche tai. (It's not my wish also.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Thik. Eidikta apnader yeman ache thak, oi dikta amader diye din. (Very correct. Let this portion remain as it is, just give us that side.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Tahole ami kore yabo, era . . . (I am doing all these, they . . .) (indistinct Bengali)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Bas, bas . . . (All right, all right . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Oidikta onek jami ache . . . oi . . oi kaj khana tumi karo. (On that side the quantity of land is more . . . that . . . on that side you start work.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya, oidikta amra grahan korbo. (Yes, that side we will take.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Tahole apni, ama . . . amar . . . amar mate . . . mat tai. (So you also have the same opinion.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya. (Yes.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Tarikh asbe kobe. Lease kore dei. (When the date will come. Let me lease to you.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya. (Yes.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Kartik babuke giye bal ge. Kartik babu parbe ki? (Tell this to Kartik babu. Can Kartik babu do this?)

'''Devotee:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Kartik babur to apnar sange dekha hoyni. (Kartik babu didn't meet with you yet.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Kartik babur sange dekha hoy ni. (Couldn't meet Kartik babu (Mr. Kartik). Kartik babu) . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ek sange porechi college. (We study together at the same college.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Tahole to amader college, Scottish te to amra porechi. (It's our college then, we studied at Scottish.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Subhas Bose age . . . iye te porto . . . Presidency . . . (Subhas Bose studied there, in his Presidency . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Subhas to amar bhai, choto bhai, Janaki kakar chele. (Subhas is my brother, younger brother, the son of Janaki uncle.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (laughs) Janakipada ar Haripada, dui bhai. Ar Balaram chilo . . . (Janki Pada and Hari Pada, they are two brothers. And Balaram was . . .) (indistinct Bengali)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Janaki Babu ki apnader atmiya hoten? (Was Janaki Babu a relative to your family?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ei Madan Mohan Dutta holo relative, Kolkatar sabceye baro chilen Madan Mohan Dutta. (Madan Mohan Dutta was relative of ours, Madan Mohan Dutta was a great personality of Kolkata) . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya, Madan Mohan Dutta nam sunechi. (Yes I heard about Madan Mohan Dutta.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Madan Mohan Dutter . . . or nam (Madan Mohan Dutta's . . . his name . . .) . . . (indistinct Bengali)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Tobe amar bhai hoy samparke, kaka (In relation they are my brother, uncle in fact . . .) (indistinct Bengali)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Janaki Bose.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hmm, Janaki Bose . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Accha, Kartik Boser sange apnader . . . (Do you have any link with Kartik Bose . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Kar? Kartik Boser sathe . . . (Who? With Kartik Bose . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Dr. Kartik Bose . . .

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Na, amader sange kono samparka nei. Ami kichu janine yodi kichu hoy, ami janine. Ami sob jani kintu se, amar jana kichu nei. (No, we don't have any relation with them. At least I don't know if there is any relation, I don't know. I have knowledge of all these, but I don't know anything about this.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ami Kartik Boser laboratorir manager chilam. (I used to work as a manager in Kartik Bose's laboratory.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Apni bolechilen . . . (You told . . .) (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Uni amar babar khub bisesh bandhu. (He (Kartik Bose) was a very special friend of my father.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Khub bha . . . Kartik Babu . . . amyao khub bhalobasten choto belay, ami yetam majhe majhe okhane. . . . (indistinct) . . . ar Khudiram Bose . . . (indistinct) . . . nam ke na jane. (Oh Kartik Babu . . . also loved me a lot in my childhood, I used to visit there occasionally . . . (indistinct) . . . Khudiram Bose, Kalindi Bose, they were known to people.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oi Janaki Bose, Kartik Boser kache asto. Orao oi Harinavi Bose. Ora. (Janaki Bose used to visit Kartik Bose. They are the Bose family of Harinavi. They are.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hari Ballabh Boser choto bhai chilo Roy Bahadur. Ora Cuttacke government trader. (His younger brother was Hari Ballabh Bose who was awarded Roy Bahadur. They were Govt Traders in Cuttack.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya, Janaki Bose pratham government booking . . . (Yes, Janaki Bose's first Govt. booking . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oderto Elgin Roade bari. (Their home is at Elgin Road.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Pare bolchi. Pare yog korchi ye, or Baruipure bari, Baruipur. (Will tell you later. They added it later that is, their home was at Baruipur, Baruipur.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, Baruipur.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Baruipur . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Kartik Bosero bari Baruipur. (Kartik Bose's home was also at Baruipur.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Janaki . . . Janaki Boser kache giye ei kagaj gulon dekhiyechi, bollo ekhane rekhe dao ami kore debo. Manus . . . taka . . . (indistinct) . . . Ta o paisa nite gelo. (Once I had shown some of my work to Janaki Bose at his residence, he said ok you can leave it here, I will do rest of the things. Man . . . money . . . (indistinct) . . . so he went asking for money.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Paisa nite gelo. Ar ek dhamkani dadake . . . (indistinct) . . . (laughs). Ta eisob gulo dadar bisaye bollen, amito chele manus, ami ha kore sunlum. (laughs). Ami sobar ceye choto. Takhano khub illegal kichu janina, apnake tai ektu bolchi ami esob katha. (Went to ask for money. And elder brother received chastisement . . . (indistinct) . . . (laughs). My brother told me this. I was young then, I only listened silently. (laughs). As I was the youngest of all, I didn't have any idea regarding legal things, I am just casually saying all these things to you.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya. Ar Allahabade oi Mittir ra chilo, seo apnader kuttumba. Karon Prabhupad Allahabade yakhan gechilen, amra se paichari kore, kore gappo kortam, Mittir der katha uni sob jijnes-tijnes korchilen. (Yes. The Mittirs of Allahabad, I think they are also somehow related to your family. Because when Prabhupada (Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura) visited Allahabad, we used to talk while strolling, and he was also asking about the Mittir family.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Sob, mane Kolkata sahare to amra chara keu chilo na . . . (Oh. I mean in Kolkata at that time there were not many people besides us . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya, Hatkholar Duttara to . . . (The Dutta's of Hatkhola . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Apni yodi . . . apnaro puron lok ami ekshani ber kore debo . . . (indistinct) . . . ar oi Ghosh Babu. (Now if you . . . I can show you the older residents than you . . . (indistinct) . . . and that Ghosh Babu.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Kono rakame te, ekhon abar sob sangyog hoyeche. (Somehow or other now everyone got connected again.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ami sob jani, ami giye Maitra da . . . aro bhabi, ke? kabe? Se mela din dekhinito, ke oi lokta? (I know all these, I went, Maitra da . . . I just think, who? When? As I have not seen them since long, who is this person? (laughs) (Ami besh bhabi. Apnar . . . (indistinct) . . . kothay thake? (I only think. Your . . . (indistinct) . . . where does he stay?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh? Amader bari chelo Harrison roade. (Our home was at Harrison Road.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Harrison roade (Harrison Road) . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oi ye Go . . . Gokul Gosvai chilo na? (That Gokul Gosvai was not?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hya, Gokul Gosvai. (Yes, Gokul Gosai.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oi paray. (In that locality.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hya, ar Biswa sahajagita korben . . . oi iye sarkar debe. Takhan ami choto chilem, or ceye choto. Sange, sange gelum . . . (indistinct) . . . onek lok chilo, segulo sob amake bhalobasto. (Yes, and Biswa will help us . . . Govt. will give. Then I was young, younger than him. So I go with him . . . (indistinct) . . . there were many people, all of them loved me.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ke na bhalobasbe apnake? (Who will not love you?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ayaa? (What?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ke apnake bhalobasbe na? (Who won't love you?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . amake kato ador korto . . . (they used to care for me a lot . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Dekhte bhalo. Choto chele, sabai bhalobase. (You are good looking. Youngest son, everyone loves naturally.) (laughs)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Na, uni yekhanei yeten, amake niye yeten . . . Bhaktivinod yekhanei yeten . . . (Actually, He used to take me with him wherever he would go . . . wherever Bhaktivinoda would go . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ami chelebelay khub dekhte bhalo chilen monei hocche, dekhei bojha yacche. (At your young age you were so good looking that anyone can understand by seeing you.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Amake sob jaygay niye yeto erom kore . . . (He used to take me everywhere, like this . . .)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' (laughs)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ami ki . . . (Will I . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Apnader sob bhairai sob dekhte bhalo. (All of your brothers are good looking.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Nam, dak chilo na kichu, Bhaktivinod Thakurer. (But didn't have any name, fame of Bhaktivinoda Thakura.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ei . . . ei Gosvai ti katdin royeche apnar kache? (How long this . . . this Gosvai (Vaisnava) is here with you?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' O ajke aat bachor amar kache thake. Oh saat bachore . . . (He is here for about eight years. His seven years . . .)

'''Lady:''' Saat bachor bayose bari chere ache. (At the age of seven he came from home.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Saat bachor bayose or baba chere diye gelo eikhane. (His father left him here at the age of seven.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Besh . . . besh calak chele. (Well . . . he is very clever boy.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Na, khub calak noy. (No, not that much clever.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Khub calak noy? Boka? (Not that much? A bit foolish?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Brainta ektu defective ache. Amar kache theke khanikta hoyeche, kintu oi schoole yabar por abar . . . (His brain is a little defective. Some improvement happened after he stayed here with me, but once he began to go to school . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' (indistinct Bengali) . . . svikar korben na . . . (not going to accept it . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . abar kharap hoyeche, schoole yabar por kharap hoyeche. (again defective. After going to school he became defective.)

'''Lady:''' Or maa'r oi eki . . . (His mother also has the same problem . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' (laughs)

'''Prabhupāda:''' A khub byasta amader anbar janya. (He is very eager to bring us here.)

'''Lady:''' Hya. (Yes.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Niscai. (Of course.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Apni bolchen boka, kintu amaderke anbar janya o byasta. (You are saying he is a fool, but he is very eager to bring us.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' O boka noy, ei samyandhe boka noy. (He is not a fool, at least not on these issues.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' A samyandhe khub calak? (Very clever on such matters.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hya, kebol schooler pora, masterder bolbe, kichukshon pore, repeat korbe bhule yabe, ar ei fail hoye yabe. (Only the studies of school, teachers will scold. When they ask him questions, he will forget and eventually will fail the exam.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' (laughs) Mane, Fokre Bhatcarjee, thaki Hatkhola, falanite atta-sota, bikrir name kac kala. (laughter) Ki tai naki? (Means all other aspects are fine but when it comes to the matter of study, he is like a green banana (very poor) (laughter) So, is it not the fact?) (laughter)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Falanite atta-sota, bikrr name kac kala. (Other aspects are good but in study, like a green banana.)

'''Lady:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Dekhun . . . ati choto bayase, oi Mayapur dvipe emon bhakti holo ye, Calcuttay ar yay ni. (See . . . in this young age, he got so much love for Māyāpur, for that he didn't return to Calcutta.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Tato batei. (That's a fact.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Bap maa esche. Yei bolecchi bap-maa esche, ek dor . . . ami kole kore niye giye jor . . . bichanay . . . jor kore bichanay bosiyechi . . . (Once his parents have come. As I told him that his parents have come, he ran away . . . I carried in lap and forcefully make him seat in the bed . . .) (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Or, Calcuttay or . . . Calcutta te khub influence or. (He has good influence in Calcutta. Very influential in Calcutta.)

'''Lady:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Tahole . . . (Then . . .) now I require massages.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Tahole, kalke kakhan . . . (indistinct) . . . uni . . . uni apnader communicate korbe. (Then, tomorrow which time . . . (indistinct) . . . he . . . he will communicate with you.)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Where would you like to take massage? In the sunshine?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' In the sun?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ki bollo? (What he said?)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Massage. Prabhupāda will take massage.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Nice ache, bosbe. Ei ye sofa, massage korbe? (This sofa is low in height, so will you massage here?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' A kore debe . . . (He will arrange . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Bichanay kore di? (Should I arrange a bed?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Thak bichanay na, madur pete dilei hobe. (Not in the bed, just lay a mat, it will be fine.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ei roddure? Naki upare? (In the sunshine or upstairs?)

'''Boy:''' Upare debo? Upare? Na ghare? (Where will we lay it, upstairs or in the room?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Opore keno, oi raddure. (Why upstairs, in the sun.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ghare? (In the room?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Na, ei raddure. (No, in the sunshine.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ei rode? (Here, in the Sun?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Kasta hobe na? (Will it not be inconvenient?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Beshi raddur ki? (Is the sunshine too bright here?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ar Kasta hole, baire aso. (If you feel discomfort then come back.)

'''Boy:''' Ghar khule dena. (I will open the room.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ektu raddurei bhalo. (It is better in the Sun.)

'''Lady:''' . . . (indistinct Bengali)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Na, gharer chader opr niye ya na. Chader opor niye gele baro bhalo hoto. (Take them on the terrace. It would have been better on the terrace.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Chader oporer ghar besh bhalo. (In the terrace room, there it would be good.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Chade keno? Eito ekhane besh . . . (Why terrace, just here in this place is good . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Lady:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ekhane ghaser opor besh naram hobe. (Here in the grass, it will be soft here.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Accha, bichana kore dao. (Okay, put a bed here.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Na, ekta madur pete dilei hobe. (No, just a mat will be good.)

'''Lady:''' Hya, oitaito choto ache . . . pata chilo. (Yes, that's a little small . . . already arranged.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ar ektu sarser tel. (And a little mustard oil.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Very good that you are keeping in your . . . (laughs) I am very glad. Na, apni bacar age, yatadin iye kore protect thaka yay . . . (indistinct) . . . oi dike niye ya to. (Yes, as long as you can be kept alive and protected . . . (indistinct) . . . take to that side.)

'''Lady:''' Hya, oi Neem tala ta . . . (Yes, beneath that Neem tree . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ei bolna. (Hey, tell him.)

'''Lady:''' Neem tala ta. (Below the Neem tree.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Khoka. Ei . . . ei khane dik. (Khoka. This . . . this side he can put.)

'''Lady:''' Na, na oi Neem tala khub bhalo hobe. (No, no . . . beneath the Neem tree will be good.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Neem tala? (Underneath the Neem tree?)

'''Lady:''' Garir pase, Neem gach tar kahe, alpo raddur to . . .) (Beside the car, the Neem tree, the sunshine is a little less there.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Neem talay jabe? (Will it go beneath the Neem tree?)

'''Lady:''' Hya, ei Hari. (Yes, hey Hari.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Dekhna Hari. (Hari just see.)

'''Lady:''' Gaborta sariye de to. (Clear the cow dung.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Neem talay rakh. (Keep it beneath the Neem tree.)

'''Lady:''' Neem talar gabor ta sariye dik, khub bhalo yayga. (Beneath the Neem tree, just clear the cow dung, it's a very good place.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Neem talar gabar sara. Oi khane mat pete de, Neem talai bhalo. (Clear the cow dung beneath the Neem tree. Lay this mat there, beneath the Neem tree is actually good.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ar ektu khani garam jal cai. (And a little bit of hot water is required.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Lady:''' Khule dilei holo, jal bhara ache. (Water is already stored, just open it.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Oh, jal bharai ache . . . (Oh, water is stored . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, eite garam hoy? Tahole to kono kathai nei. (Oh, this way it will be hot? That's fine.)

'''Lady:''' Switch khule dilei hobe. (The switch is to be opened.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Switch off kore de hya. (Switch off. Please turn the switch off.)

'''Lady:''' Switch off.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Lady:''' Jal puro ache to? (The water is stored?)

'''Boy:''' Hya. (Yes.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Lady:''' Buro manuser janya byabasta rakhi. (Keep facilities for old people.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Na, ami eikhane bolechi . . . (I have also told . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' You also take bath?

'''Devotees:''' Yes.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Then, kothay . . . (where . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Taken already.

'''Gurudāsa:''' No.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Dekhun, ei jaygay bollum . . . hatt. . . . gyan debe amake . . . (indistinct) . . . age mandire jal debo. Ekhon sei lokta . . . (indistinct) . . . choto kakar kache, se amar nam janta, oh oke age niye yan . . . (indistinct Bengali) (See, here I told . . . (indistinct) . . . first you go to the temple. Now that person . . . to my younger uncle, he knew my name . . .)

'''Gurudāsa:''' That bathing ghat by Bhaktivinode's . . .

'''Lady:''' Hya eikhane, Prabhu takhon aseni, ami pratham . . . (indistinct Bengali) (Yes here, Prabhu hasn't come 'till then, first I . . .)

'''Devotee:''' Yeah, I'll show you the temple.

'''Gurudāsa:''' All right.

'''Devotee:''' I'll just take you to the . . .

'''Lady:''' Ei Hari Das. (Hey Hari Das.)

Hari Das: Ki? (What?)

'''Lady:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Gurudāsa:''' You know that I just did a round by the birth site. It was wonderful.

'''Devotee:''' Around of . . . (indistinct) . . . of beads

'''Gurudāsa:''' Beads. Now I'll do some film.

'''Lady:''' Chele gulon ki dustu, dekhechen? Chele gulo dustu kato phal curi kore niye palacche. (Have you seen, the naughty boys are running away after stealing fruits.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ki? (What?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Chelegulo palacche. (The boys are fleeing.)

'''Lady:''' Chola-tola jinis niye-tiye cole yacche. (Taking away chickpeas and other things.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Amar chola sob curi korche . . . (indistinct Bengali) (Stealing all my chickpeas . . .)

'''Lady:''' Takhane ekdin ei, hariken, hariken, ami takhan eka, voger thala eiram niye harikenta hater bhetar dharbar o lok nai, ami to dhore upare yabo, bhog niteo hobe. Rattire eram kore. Tarpore, teler control hoye gelo, kerosen ar mele na. To mombati jvaliye chi. Mombati ke niye haoay baisak-jaista mase upore otha yay? To ki korbo, se mombati ba-hate dhore thala, bhoger thala eram kore niye yacchi, se bari te bolar lok o nei. Chat kore majh khane sirite, alota nive . . . mombati ta nive gelo, se cokhe ekta jol . . . thakur ami ki kore tomar ei thala ami niye yai, thakur tumi alor byabasta karo, amra to sudra jiv ki kore korbo? Amar, amar emon divya cokshu nai ye, ami niye yai, tai bole sei sirir pore bhoger thala niye amar cokhe jal ese gelo. Thik tar pore Prabhu aslo ar chay maser bhetarei . . . (Then one day, this hariken (lantern), I will show you, taking the bhoga plate like this, taking the hariken inside the arm. No one available to hold, if someone could hold the lantern to go upstairs, to take the ''bhoga''. Like this at night time. Then one day Govt. controlled the fuel supply, kerosene was out of stock. So light up the candle. But what is the use of a candle in the high wind of April to May evening. What to do, by holding the candle in the left hand and the plate of ''bhoga'' in the other hand, I was going, no-one was there to help. Then on the way in the stair the candle blew out. Tears came to my eyes, I said: "Oh my Lord how will I bring the ''bhoga'' plate to you now, please arrange for some light Lord. We are sudra ''jiva'', how will I be able to do it? I don't have any divine vision that I can bring," while thinking like this, standing in the stair with the ''bhoga'' plate, tears came out from my eyes. The next year Prabhu came and within six months this . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Electric.

'''Lady:''' Ei . . . ei, electric alo ese gelo . . . alor byabsta karo. Ta sei sange sange siri te alo deoa chilo, siri diye uthe . . . (indistinct Bengali) (Electric light came . . . arrange for light. There was some light in the stair, getting up the stair . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . be at home, bari. Kono lajja korben na, ya kichu lagbe bolben, tairi kore debo . . . (home. Don't feel shy, whatever you will ask anyone to do, they will do it.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya, hya . . . lajja kiser? (Oh yes, we won't feel shy.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Be at home. . . be at home.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' BH . . .

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Be at home.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Be at home.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' be at home. Oh. (laughs)

'''Prabhupāda:''' We're at home.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' (laughs)

'''Prabhupāda:''' We are at our father's house.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Na, apnara ekhane korle . . . very good park hobe. Ar ek khana gari dhuke yabe. Mone karun ei gaye only two hours, jor kore calale . . . (indistinct) . . . dui ghantay Calcutta pauche yaben. (If you could do it here . . . that would be a very good park. And cars also can be parked. From this village it will take only two hours, if you drive the car very fast . . . (indistinct) . . . in two hours time you will reach Calcutta.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Besh. (Well.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ekjan thakla ki na boye gelo. (It does not matter if one stays here or not.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Na, eikhane to amader antata dash jan lok thakbe, ar apnader lok ache. Anabarata utsab hobe, kirtan hobe, ei sob korbe. (Actually about ten of our people will be staying here, and your people are also there. There will be continuous festivals, ''kirtanas'', all these will be.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Beshi lok theke gele . . . (If many people stay . . .)

'''Lady:''' . . . ei ye badmais chele gulor ki abasta. Oi dekho, rekhe abar asche. Ekshoni niye yabe, oi ye aat-dash ta, baro, baro atharo bayos, kuri bachorer chele gulo, ki atyacar kore . . . (just see the condition of these wicked boys. See, again they are coming. About eight to ten, grown up boys, eighteen to twenty years of age, they torture us a lot.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ki niye geche? (What did they take away?)

'''Lady:''' Pacta dab gacher, ekta yodi thakurer bhog dite dey, ei dab kine ante hoy. Erakam abasta. Chata narkel gacher, ei dui bachor-tin er modhye ektao thakur ke bhog dite dey na. (Amongst five of the coconut trees, we don't get even a single green coconut for offering ''bhoga'' to Lord, this green coconut we have to purchase, this is the condition. Six coconut trees there, within this two to three years not a single coconut we get to offer for ''bhoga'' to Lord.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sob, bhadra loker chele sob cor hoye yacche . . . (Boy is from decent family has become a thief . . .)

'''Lady:''' Ei sob, ar schooler chelera. (These are all, and some school boys are also there.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Sono, (Listen,) whole Bengal, whole.

'''Lady:''' Eikhane chola-mator lagiyechi, dekhen ardhek chola sesh kore niye geche, gacher okhane gelei faka-faka. Mator guloto sobi niye geche. Sei alpo duto thakbe, rattire saat tar samay hariken dhare ami, duto gach, se tule niye geche. Rakhena . . . curi kore niye geche. Eiram abasta. (We did some chickpeas and yellow split peas plantation here, half of the chickpeas plants have been taken away, the land became empty. The yellow split peas have taken it all. There were few left. I went there at 7:00 pm at night with a hariken in my hand, and found that they have taken away those also. They never leave something for us . . . they steal always. This is the condition.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Even a single, all bengal . . . (indistinct) . . . all are thieves, all are worse.

'''Lady:''' Ei bel, bel ache bhalo . . . T(his wood apple, good wood apple . . . )

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Lady:''' Ei upadrabta bandha kara yacche na kichutei . . . (indistinct) . . . bera bhenge dhuke, oi kore dey. (These disturbances could not be stopped in any way. . . . (indistinct) . . . by breaking the border fence, and do this.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sob yodi cor . . . thag bachte gao ujar. Tahole r ki kore ki hobe? (When everyone is a thief, you won't find an honest man in the village. Then how anything can happen.)

'''Lady:''' Eito muskil. (That's the problem.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' O niye kichu bhab bar nei, beshi lok hole, ora bhoy peye yabe. Yodi dash-baro jan thake . . . (indistinct) . . . korlei ora paliye yabe. Cheler dal to . . . (No need to be worried, when there will be more people here, they will be afraid. When there will be ten to twelve people . . . (indistinct) . . . they will flee away. Just a group of young boys . . .)

'''Devotee:''' Ektake dhore ene, yodi rakha yay ghare, baki sob palie yabe. (If any one of them can be caught and kept hold in a room, the rest of them will run away.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ami ekhone ekjon, dui-ekjonke dhore anba ye, ei dol theke . . . ar amake keu manena. Oi pas diye lukiye, lukiye yay. Ami, ki ye bale, ei bol curi korbi chele? 'Tobe ektu na hoy korechi, schoole gechi, school kore gechi, schooler kaj baniyechi'. Ajke school name eschis, kothay school toder? (If I caught one or two of them from this group . . . but no one cares about me. They go from that side by hiding. If I ask, "Hey child tell me will you steal again?" They answer, "What happens if we have stolen a little thing, but we went to school, finished the classes, done our all home tasks." You came in the name of school, where is your school?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Kiser lekha para? Sob baje lekha para. (What education? All nonsense studies.)

'''Lady:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ar ekhoni shikhchena. (They are learning nothing.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Cor, cor sob. (Thieves, all are thieves.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ekebarei shikhchena. (Not learning at all.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Cor, bodmais. Esob Hari bha . . . Hari bhajan na korle, Hari bhakti na kore hoyeche. (All thieves and rascals. When Hari bhajan and Hari bhakti are not done, all these things happen.)

'''Lady:''' Hya, erom hoy. (Yes, such things happen.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' (indistinct) . . . . ''Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahād guṇā'' ([[SB 5.18.12]])

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' There's a place under this . . . (indistinct)

'''Devotee:''' (reading newspaper) Ajker kagaje. (In today's newspaper.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Devotee:''' Today's paper.

'''Bengali devotee:''' Today's paper.

'''Devotee:''' Bengali?

'''Bengali devotee:''' Hya, Yes. You can't read.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ei juta baire niye ya. (Take these shoes outside.)

'''Lady:''' Gamcha ki debo? (Should we give you a ''gamcha''?)

'''Madan:''' Gamcha dao to. (Give me the ''gamcha''.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Huh? Gamcha debo? Ei Madan. (Should we give you a ''gamchha''? Hey Madan.)

'''Madan:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ekta gamcha ber kore dao. (Please bring one ''gamcha'' and give it.)

'''Madan:''' Konta debo? (Which one to give?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Devotee:''' Russia, France ar Britain. Bharat, Pak sarasari alocana cay. (Russia, France and Britain. Wants a direct dialogue between India and Pakistan.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Dupakshi? (Bilateral?)

'''Bengali devotee:''' Dupakshi, hya dupakshi. (Bilateral, yes bilateral.) (break) A tide of discussion between India and Pakistan. Russia. Greece, France and Britain want.

'''Jayapataka:''' Narikel tyal ache? (Do you have coconut oil?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Narikel tel? (Coconut oil?)

'''Jayapataka:''' Hya. (Yes.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hya. Ki ache maa . . . suneni. Maa, narkel tel. (Yes. Let me ask mother. Mother, coconut oil.)

'''Jayapataka:''' Narkal tel . . . (The coconut oil . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Na, asun, (aside) bati kore dao. Dhele dile na? Maa ke balo na. (No, now use from this bowl. (aside) Please pour it, ask mother.)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Maa ke balo ekta bati . . . bati to chilo. Dekhi . . . (Ask mother to give a bowl . . . bowl was there. Let me check . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . .

'''Jayapataka:''' Ei jinish kothay rakhbo? (Where should we keep these things?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ki? (What?)

'''Boy:''' Dada, oder gharta khule de na. (Brother please open that room for them.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hya, ei ghar khule dao na. Eikhane, (Yes, open that room please. In that room,) nobody will go. You keep the key. You keep the key.

'''Lady:''' Ei ghar khule diye ay, khule diye ay . . . (indistinct Bengali) (Go and open the room) . . . (break)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Ah?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' I get sun.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Sun. You are out for sun also?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Oh, I am leaving.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' So you are leaving?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ah.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Okay.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' I get sun . . . in the winter sun come, come . . . that way.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' So you will move over and sit here?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ah. I always sit . . . (indistinct)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Ah . . . (indistinct Bengali)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' That room.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Eh?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' You're staying?

'''Lady:''' Oi roome. In that room.)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' We will sit there?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Nah.

'''Bengali devotee:''' The room is.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . go with them.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' That's all right I don't need to go anywhere.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' You go, go with them.

'''Bengali Devotee:''' You come with me.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' There is another room.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' All right.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct Bengali)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Okay. (laughs)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct Bengali)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' We want to walk.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct) . . . go there.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Okay, all right.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Okay.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' A guest.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' We'll go see. Thank you. (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ar Bhaktivinod Thakurer hater lekha asirbad (The handwriting of Bhaktivinoda Thakur, it's a blessing . . .) . . . (indistinct Bengali).

'''Jayapataka:''' Hya, amio porchi. (Yes, I too am reading.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

'''Jayapataka:''' Amio porchi. (I am also reading.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Bhaktivinod eke ar oi amader Prabhupad ke khub bhalo basten. Ar ini choto chele, sneha ektu beshi hoy chotor opor. (Bhaktivinoda used to love our Prabhupada and him (Lalita Prasada) very much. And he is the youngest son, affection naturally grows more on the youngest.) (break) He looks like his father also.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' His mother appears very beautiful also in those photos.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Shining face. That man is reading the newspaper to him. He will rest. Every day he gets all the news.

'''Prabhupāda:''' This is the system, old aristocratic.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Ah.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Every old man should engage a man to read news.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Oh.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Spread it.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' On the ground?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Watch the bottle. It will be dry within 10 minutes by the time I take my.

'''Yadubara:''' I shouldn't wring that should I?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, simply make this. Here that's all spread. Spread it that is sufficient. ''Hari-nāma hari-nāma''. It will be dry in 10 minutes. Yes he knows, that's it.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' (laughs)

'''Yadubara:''' Easy way to iron.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' These are old temples?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' These are very old temples?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. At least 200 years.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Hmm. Always they have worshipped Viṣṇu in this temple? Kṛṣṇa.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Formerly they used to worship goddess Kali.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Oh, is that boy some relation?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Just a friend. Society. A good boy.

'''Prabhupāda:''' I have given him the suggestion the whole thing is solved in one minute. He also agrees.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Lease.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Lease.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' 99 years.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's it.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Not for proprietorship for development.

'''Prabhupāda:''' What is the use of proprietorship?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' What do we care? (laughs) Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor.

'''Prabhupāda:''' 99 years, our life, your life, your grand . . . your son's life . . . we have to give some service so long the body is there, otherwise what shall I do with the property? Everything will remain here.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' He knows that you are in a position to develop it until some.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, 99. So one bucket cold water and one bucket hot water and one soap.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' One hot and one cold . . . (indistinct) . . . (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Bhavānanda is a good massager.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Yes. How big is the property here? Does it extend around some distance?

'''Prabhupāda:''' 20 ''bigas''.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' 20 ''bigas'', oh that is large.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Has he agreed to your proposals Prabhupāda?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' So we should get? Draw up some papers or?

'''Prabhupāda:''' He'll do it.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' He'll do it. Very nice. (laughs) So before you leave India.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' All these things finished.

(break) I was, I always used to dream that you would take us to these places. (laughs) (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' So we require a few cars from America.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Yes.

'''Devotee:''' Jeeps.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' I think heavy Jeeps.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Cars like that rough.

'''Devotee:''' Like UNICEF Jeeps.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Or Land Rovers.

'''Devotee:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's all right. So if there is bathroom? No?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Yes . . . and some more men also I think are required.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' (indistinct) . . . Hare Kṛṣṇa they'll all come out.

'''Gurudāsa:''' They won't come anyway.

(indistinct conversation)

'''Prabhupāda:''' In Jagannath Purī also. (break)

'''Devotee (2):''' In Jagannath Purī also.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Dvārkādīśa, where the boats.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Where is Dvārakā ''dhāma''.

'''Devotee:''' Dvārakā ''dhāma''.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Dvārakā ''dhāma'' when we get some amphibious Kṛṣṇa conscious. Hare Kṛṣṇa . . . (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . and was purchased by Bhaktivinode Ṭhākura at Rs.150.

'''Acyutānanda:''' All of it?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Per biga?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, the whole plot.

'''Acyutānanda:''' (laughs)

'''Prabhupāda:''' That was 20 bigas.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' In Māyāpur that man from the Caitanya Math has bought . . . (indistinct)

'''Acyutānanda:''' That's about Rs.10. Less than Rs.10. (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' (indistinct) . . . who had some excess money in hand. (break). After producing they want cash in their hand. The capitalist will take, hold it for some time naturally the price will increase and they will sell it. That system is still going on but it is very dangerously made.

People do not bring out the commodity they simply speculate, "I purchased from you, you purchase it from me," so the goods are there and transaction is going on. I sell to you, you sell to him, you sell so on and people do not get the goods. There is scarcity and it is lying somewhere and the speculation is going on.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Somewhere else.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. And because the goods are not coming the market is increasing, you see. This rogueism is going on and there are so many banks although I have no money. Suppose I want to purchase one lakh worth of grains. Somehow or other if I have Rs.20,000 the bank will give me 80,000.

So the market is increasing, I'm not selling and when it is to my full satisfaction I sell, I pay the banks money and take a large huge profit. This is going on, in every commodity. Things are not coming out it has become gold exchange. But they will sell just at the beginning of the next season.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Hmm.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Otherwise they will be put into knots. (break)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' No, no as long as you are here I'm not afraid.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah, the population has decreased.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' They have driven them away. Or killed them.

'''Prabhupāda:''' When there is . . . just like you do not go to the forest . . . (indistinct) . . . infested with many animals. Similarly they also do not come to the human society and the bigger population.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Hmm.

'''Prabhupāda:''' This is the safe, ''bhayaṁ dvitīyābhiniveśataḥ syād'' ([[SB 11.2.37|SB 11.2.37]]), for forgetting Kṛṣṇa all the living entities they are afraid of one another.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Hmm.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's all. They have forgotten that Kṛṣṇa is the centre he is our father. So there is no fear but that they have forgotten. Now, ''īśād apetasya viparyayo 'smṛtiḥ'', they have forgotten that we are brothers. Therefore fight, we have got equal rights to enjoy the father's property but no, I am taking more you are starving, this is going on. Kṛṣṇa consciousness will solve all these questions.

If everyone has got the right to enjoy father's property why one should take more? This is the best idea of communism, these things are there in ''Bhāgavata''. ''Bhāgavata'' says whatever there is in the sky, whatever there is on the land and whatever there is on the water they belong to the Supreme Lord. So every living entity has the right to enjoy it as it is allotted by the Lord. This is ''Bhāgavata's'' contribution.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Hmm. In other words if a man is born a King he is allowed to enjoy like a King?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes King is to manage these affairs.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Hmm.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That everything is property of God, you are all sons of God. So King's business is to see that nobody is encroaching upon other's property. Nobody is fighting and he equally distributes the produce, that is the King's duty. He has to see that whether ''brahmin's'' are executing their duty, ''kṣatriya's'', ''vaiśyas'' according to our division, this is King's duty. To make him Kṛṣṇa conscious but King is simply interested with the tax. No education, so-called King, then King is finished, now the people have taken in the name of people's government but it is an oligarch.

It is for the interests of a few men and all of them rogues and thieves just like Gandhi started indigenous manufacture. Buy sell car, manufacturing one's own cloth, now that became a show and the government started big big factories owned by capitalists. So Britishers were taking one rupee and eight annas per pair and they are now taking twenty-one rupees eight annas. Twenty times increase, government does not say anything because they are getting tax in different ways, excise tax, sales tax, income tax and the tax is distributed amongst the government servants. People do not get any benefit.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Hmm.

'''Prabhupāda:''' 20% from the tax collected, they distribute for the people's welfare and 80% they divided, divided by the governors, rastrapatis, secretaries and government servants—this is the position. One side the capitalist is exploiting and the government is taking tax from them and government means a few men they are enjoying, that's it. This is all over the world I can see, and they want that the people should be engaged in fighting in the name of nationalism and they will enjoy that's all.

They have no good idea for the betterment of the position of the citizens. What we are doing every government should have done it—Kṛṣṇa consciousness but the rascals they simply plunder the citizens and enjoy. Wine women and flesh—this is the position. (break) . . . (indistinct) . . . there are mlecchas and taking the dress of the King, killing the whole world. (break).

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . foundation, foundation age, foundation korte khub beshi deri korte hobe na, ekhane ek khana foundation korlei building hote parbe, kintu America . . . ei iye . . . Mayapure amar bisvas nei. Kondin ki hobe sunle, uriye debe sob (first foundation, you shouldn't be late to make foundation, just foundation for a single story structure will be ok to make the building, but in Māyāpur I don't have faith. It's full of uncertainty, they will blow away everything . . .) (indistinct Bengali)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Mahaprabhu yakhan sannyas niye chilen. (Mahāprabhu took sannyāsa then.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Mahaprabhur sannyaser chay bachor por . . . (Six years after Mahāprabhu took ''sannyāsa'' . . .) (indistinct Bengali)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . tai, sholo bachor ar panera bachor, kato? Sholo ar panera diye ekatrish bachor, takhan Mahaprabhu dakshiner dik ghure esche, ekatrish bachore, abar Shantipur chilo . . . (indistinct Bengali) (so here sixteen years and fifteen years, how much, total thirty one years, then Mahāprabhu returned from his trip to south india, at thirty one year, that time from Shantipur . . .)

12 ''lakhs'' of Nadia and all under the . . . (indistinct) . . . and you are putting a temple on that land or nice, (below,) that is river bed. That's why I suggest. Below you, take the site, active site. Tar modhye theke bili korte hobe. (Even then also, you have to distribute from there.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' (indistinct) . . . start by . . .

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Amar, amar, amar ya experience ache. (Mine, mine, mine experience is like this.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Otherwise there is meeting 4 o'clock?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Not today.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Not today tomorrow.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Not tomorrow. The press reporter?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Oh is there a press meeting?

'''Gurudāsa:''' I don't know.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Oh.

'''Prabhupāda:''' The press reporters from Navadvīpa will come.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Hmm.

'''Prabhupāda:''' After four. So we must reach there by five, it will take 2 ½ hours. So by half past two we must get out.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Half past two to kam hoy, two er pore yaba yakhan darkar hoy. (Half past two is not sufficient, better to leave after two.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Let us . . .

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct Bengali)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Damodarer prasad dile . . . ekhon to amra ready. (What about Damodar's ''prasādam'', we are ready now.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Eito hoye yabe. (aside) Ya na ekhan theke, cole ya . . . (It's almost done. (aside) You go from here, go away . . .)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' So at about 2 o'clock I will begin working on the car and try to make that horn work.

'''Devotee:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Without horn, not possible?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' No, well we can do that again. (laughs)

'''Prabhupāda:''' What's wrong with that?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' It's dangerous.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Bell, ringing a bell.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Dinner plate.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Bell. Hanging bell Ghanta. (Gong.)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' No Prabhupāda's plate. You know plate? Brass plate.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Bell. Bell we use that.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Oh Yeah (laughs).

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Bell. Ding dong bell.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' (laughs)

'''Gurudāsa:''' (laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (''Japa'')

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct Bengali) (break)

(Prabhupāda's recording Bengali conversation)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Oh, Oh Hari Das . . . Oh Hari . . . Ki holo? (What's the status?)

'''Hari:''' Hya, baba hocche. (It's underway.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Bhog utheche? (Has the bhoga offerings done?)

'''Hari:''' Hya, bhog uthbe ekhoni. (Yes, almost over. It will be taken out.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Oh Uthbe ekhoni. (All right. Oh will be taken out now. All right) . . . light lagche? Casma . . . (light is there, eyeglass . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Na, casma na . . . (No, no eyeglass . . .) (break) na amar casma ache. (I have my eyeglass.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hya, taito bolchi. Dan coktay ekdom dekhte paina, ba cokta alpo. (Yes, that's what I am telling. Right eye has no vision, left eye has little.) Sideways, side view . . . kaj sere ni . . . (can do my work . . .)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Only from the side?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' All back.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Only from the side?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' On, on that.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Ah.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' This side.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Left side?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Left side . . . (indistinct) . . . for me heavy.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Ah. Ah . . . no eyeglasses?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Eyeglasses. I do use, but this is of, onto. Coming cataract.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Ah.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Full of cataract.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Ah.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' See here, I can swap. This you can check. This side I can see.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Ah . . . one eye is better than no. A one-eyed uncle is better than no uncle.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . this eye I had no view . . . (indistinct) . . . I want that operate. I want a doctor to test my eye. Well life is shortened that way. Life is shortened.

'''Devotees:''' Yes.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' If I operate and remove the cataract life will be shortened.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Oh yes, yes.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' The affect on the whole system.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Yes, yes that's a fact.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' And even if I live for 100 years you, you, you have to die 40 years ago, or before . . . (indistinct) . . . any operation lessens the longevity of life.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Yes yes.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Longevity.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Longevity of life. Because then something else has to replace that . . .

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Blood circulation stopped and there . . . (indistinct) . . . you are now young men When you will be old, you will understand the difficulty . . .

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' The . . . (indistinct) . . . strengths are diminished. Diminished.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Hmm . . . but when you are speaking on religious subjects then your strength comes out?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Beg your pardon?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' You said that when you are speaking on religious subjects then your strength comes out.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Yes, yes, yes. On religious, I don't see any difficulty. A strength of joy up heaven. God sends His, I don't know. Amra ei bar, ei bangaly korechilam, ei ye banglay korechilam . . . onek . . . (indistinct) . . . ek ekjan bole amra diye yabo . . . amra diye yabo . . . (indistinct) (laughs) . . . lokgulo dustu. (Once we did the Bengali version of it, did it in Bengali . . . many . . . (indistinct) . . . people said we will return you back . . . will return you back . . . (indistinct) (laughs) . . . naughty people.) The very people who sing the name of God and know what is holy.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' They're servants of ''māyā''.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Servants of ''māyā''.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' The illusory energy, I call. Illusory energy. Illusion.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Yes illusion.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Illusory energy is ''māyās shakti''. Illusory energy. Have you bed? Bedding?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Bedding? Yes they are in Māyāpur.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' In Māyāpur in the early morning.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' In our camp.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . another morning at Ganges.

(gong sounds)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Yes we go bathing there.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' That was the original coast, 400 years ago, the original coast was . . . (indistinct) . . . ''jan-nagar'' straight to the north, up to . . . (indistinct)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Hmm . . . up to Gandhinagar.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . jan-nagar. And Ganga nagar it tries to, Took turn . . . and then it changed towards South. Towards East and then it goes a bit further, and that was the position which were once . . . 400 years ago, 500 years ago . . . (indistinct) . . . when Māyāpur was discovered again, Ṭhākura expressed. But again that stopped, the course have taken another way, by Ramchandrapur's other side, other end . . . (indistinct) . . . I have already written a small narratori how the Ganges shifted from one side to another . . . (indistinct) . . . about twenty miles Ganges shifted than there . . .

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Hmm. 20 miles?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Bangladesh and Māyāpur. And there are 12 lakhs of people on the mainland where you are now building this thing.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Hmm? 12 ''lakhs''?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' 12 ''lakhs''. Now . . . (indistinct)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Biggest temple in Bengal. We are rising.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' That will be.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Yes. One of the biggest in India.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' And, that is declared.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Longest. Longest.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Eh? Tallest.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Longest.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Yeah.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' 200 feet in Bengal there is no higher than this. Jagannath temple near . . . (indistinct) . . . Jagannath Purī that is 108 feet high.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' 180?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Twelve thousand, twelve thousand twenty eight, two hundred ten . . . (indistinct) . . . here, here in this picture.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' You know this?

'''Gurudāsa:''' Yes in Orissa.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Orissa.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' In San Francisco California we have New Jagannath Purī.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Oh yes.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' In San Francisco.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' At San Francisco.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' And we have every year a big Ratha-yātrā.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Yes flyer I've seen.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' You've seen picture?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' I've seen a picture.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' (laughs) And in London also Ratha-yātrā.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Very good. In London her Majesty should join the Ratha. I think there is a picture.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . Candra eh?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' I think we have now six temples in England.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Six?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Six temples in England.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' One in eh?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' London, Birmingham.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Birmingham.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Manchester.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Manchester.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Cardiff.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Cardiff.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Yes.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Edinburgh.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Edinburgh.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Edinburgh?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Scotland and Dublin.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Edinburgh, Dublin?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Yes.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Oh, Ireland and Scotland.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Yes Ireland and Scotland.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Yes all right . . .

'''Gurudāsa:''' (sings along with ''kīrtana'' in background) ''bhaja bhakata-vatsala śrī-gaurahari''.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ah. In London there are two classes of men. One . . . (indistinct) . . . in Ireland and another . . . (indistinct) . . . Irish in England?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' In London?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' London, no Ireland.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Ireland. Ah.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ireland is something independent?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Not under the British rule?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' No. British have lost their rule everywhere.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Yes everywhere yes Americans have . . . (indistinct)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Because they are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness they will be saved, America.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Eh?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' America is now taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness in America . . .

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' New York?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Everywhere. America is taking to this Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Simple.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Simple.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' America . . . (indistinct)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' No. Yes.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' In all the states?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' All the big cities.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' All the states?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' over 60 temples in America. Established by Prabhupāda.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' In the States, where the states? United States of America.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Yes. Every big city, one big big temple.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' And everyday ''pūjā'' is done.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Throughout the day.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Worshiping done. Eh.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' All through, starting. ''Maṅgala-ārati'' starts 4 o'clock. ''maṅgala-ārati'', ''maṅgala-ārati'' 4 o'clock.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' 4 o'clock.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Morning.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Morning.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Going up to ''sundara-ārati'' 9 o'clock at night. And throughout the day at least 10, 12 ārati. 10 or 12 times, ''prasādam'' is offered, ārati.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' ''Bhog bhog''.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' ''Bhog''.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' ''Bhog''. Oh, aloo bhajche? Bolna. (Hey, are they frying potatoes? Please tell me.)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Hya, aloo bhajche. (Yes frying potatoes.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Yan na, yan na apnara. (You all can now go there, please go) . . . you go, yan . . . (please go.)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' You go, some of you go. Yan na. (Please go) . . . (indistinct) . . . opore, opore yan. (Upstairs, please go upstairs.)

'''Gurudāsa:''' Hare Kṛṣṇa . . . (indistinct)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Mṛdaṅga. Get mṛdaṅga there . . . (indistinct) . . . mrdanga bajabar lok kam. (Not many ''mṛdaṅga'' players today.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ajke mṛdaṅga bajanor lok kam. (Not many ''mṛdaṅga'' players today.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' (indistinct) . . . kakhana kakhana dhile hoye yay. (Sometimes these get loosened.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Na, amader ekhane dheke ni. Tabe bajale khub bhalo, khub . . . (No, here we keep them covered. When they play, very good . . .) (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Bangladeshta baddo patan hoye geche. (Bangladesh has now degraded too much.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hya, ek bare, ek bare, ek bare. (Yes, very true, very true, very true.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ora rakshas hoye geche. (They have become like monsters.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Sakale bole ami bhagavan . . . bhagavan kotha theke tumi . . . (indistinct) . . . bhagavan pabi kothyeke? . . . (indistinct Bengali) (Everybody says that I am God . . . how can you be God . . . (indistinct) . . . how will you get God . . .)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' You don't eat?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' By the grace of God. One may get some milk . . . (indistinct) . . . five years . . . they are bhaktas they can approach to Godhead. (indistinct) . . . (shouts) Ora ki korche? Ki korche? Son na. Ya, paliye ya. Ei . . . ei jalatan koris na. Bari ya. (laughs) Badarer dol. (What are they doing? What are they doing? Come here. Go, all get lost. Don't disturb us here. Go home. (laughs) All are monkeys.) They are like monkeys.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Monkeys?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' These boys are like monkeys. (laughs) Ke Hari Das? Tariye diye ay na sob kota ke. (Is it Hari das? Just drive them all out.)

Hari das: Cole geche. (They have gone.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hya, lock diye cole ay . . . (indistinct) . . . ora sob khabe, bel khabe, kul khabe, e khabe . . . (Yes, you come inside and close the gate. They will eat all the fruits, they will eat wood-apple, berries, these and that . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Am-tam hole sob niye yay ora? (Mango and other fruits they take all?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hya, oi am tole. Ami sei jonye am gulo bikr kore di . . . (indistinct Bengali) . . . (Yes, eat mangoes. That's why we sell the mangoes . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ki sob lok hoye geche. (What people have become now.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ta pore gelo amader kapal, oder yodi pore yay takhan amader loksan hobe, bhalo to hobe. Amra ki korbo . . . Raghaber jonye . . . (indistinct) . . . bajare . . . (indistinct) . . . Raghab sob jane . . . (indistinct) . . . amrai raksha korbo, apni byasta hoben na. Ami lok . . . lok lagiye raksha korbo . . . (indistinct) . . . am niye paliye yabe, kaca am niye . . . (indistinct) . . . hya sob karbo, kintu moteo sob kore na . . . (indistinct) . . . ki bolbo apnake, eikhane ek bachor hoyeche, ki abasta. Ami sudhu ei gram ti tairi korechi, Nagen babu cole yabar por dash bachor, amader hate chay bachor rakha chilo, ekti lok chilona ye raksha kore . . . (indistinct) . . . se amake jor eram kore haat dhore bolbe, apni age basun, ar ei chairman hon . . . (indistinct) . . . kore diye, bole apni ei raksha korun . . . (indistinct) . . . lok khepe gelo . . . dui hajar sai hoye gelo . . . (indistinct Bengali) (They said like that, now it's our luck. If taken like this, then we will suffer loss, otherwise it may be good. What can we do . . . for Raghab only . . . (indistinct) . . . in the market, Raghab knows it all . . . (indistinct) . . . said we will protect, you please don't worry. I will protect with my people . . . (indistinct) . . . they will flee with the unripe mangoes . . . (indistinct) . . . they say they will do, but actually they don't do all that is needed . . . (indistinct) . . . what to say to you, about the situation here since one year. I just helped to make this village, after leaving of Nagen babu, ten years back from today, six years we manage, no one was here to protect . . . (indistinct) . . . one day he caught my hand and said you please be the chairman . . . (indistinct) . . . after doing that, said now you protect this . . . people got agitated . . . two thousand signatures collected . . .)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Dui hajar jan soi kore dile hoye gelo, municipality mitiye yak. (Two thousand signatures are done, let the municipality be dismantled.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ki mitiye debe? (What to dismantle?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Municipality.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Accha''.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . municipality . . . (indistinct)

'''Lady:''' Bhaktader ke prasad debo? (Should we serve ''prasadam'' to the devotees now?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya, hya. (Yes, yes.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (to Lady) Maa onra bolechen, amra dutor age cole yabo. Prasad peye ektu jiriye . . . (They are saying that before 2:00 pm they will leave. After taking Prasadam little rest . . .)

'''Lady:''' It's ready. Hoye geche to sob. Bhog uthe geche, ami pata ketechi. Oke bollam dhuye ene dite. (All are done. Offering ''bhoga'' is also done, I have cut the leaf, and ask him to wash.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . aj dekhen sei municipality royeche (. . . just see that the municipality is still there 'till this date.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Amra prasad peye ni. (Let us take ''prasadam''.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hya. Kato kasto korechi ei gulor jonya, onek kasto korechi ami. (Yes. I have taken a lot of trouble for that, a lot of trouble I have taken.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' (indistinct) . . . let us go . . . call them.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' We are going now?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No. Then later.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Accha, era dujon naki khaben na, phal khaben. (Came to know that two people will not take lunch, they will be taking fruit instead.) Who are two? You will not . . . take lunch?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Yes.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Some, some of . . .

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Oh yes there is one boy he has jaundice. One boy.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Take fruit juice?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Only fruits, fruits, that's all. I think he takes.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . that is the difficulty.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' At this time of year?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ah. However whatever I got, I have done it.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Ah. (laughs)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . you go.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' All right.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . break it, these are costly things very costly.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' About Rs.1000.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Eh?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Rs.1000

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' 1000, oh. You can . . . (indistinct) . . . bad work there is.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Eh?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Bad work . . .

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Where?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Bad work.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Bad work.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Bad work.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Bad work.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Work

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Ah. (referring to bad workmanship in the house and advising to beware)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . earn the money.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Ah. But on good work, nothing. About one rupee.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Take it . . . (indistinct)

'''Devotee:''' Onara upare gechen, upar theke neme tarpore . . . (They have gone upstairs, after coming down . . .)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Oh, he will, I will. I would like to bring my wife and my child everybody in . . .

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Everybody, who will be everybody?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Well maybe? How long it takes by train to come here? How long by train to come here?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ah. Two hours.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Two hours by train from Māyāpur, from Navadvīpa?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Navadvīpa by train . . . (indistinct) . . . 20 minutes.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' 20 minutes?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . is five minutes. 10 miles from this place.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' From here to Navadvīpa?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Here to Kṛṣṇa-nagar. 10 miles.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Kṛṣṇa-nagar? Ah.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Kṛṣṇa-nagar. Kṛṣṇa-nagar to Māyāpur is 8 miles.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' (indistinct) . . . ah. I see in total 18 miles. Yeah.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . straight, Māyāpur.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Okay. Yeah.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . not long distance . . . (indistinct) . . . you go to Kṛṣṇa-nagar, then you go to launch ''ghat'', then you go to Māyāpur . . .

'''Śyāmasundara:''' So from here there is train direct to Kṛṣṇa-nagar.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' If you go . . . (indistinct)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Yeah straight.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Straight, you make a straight line.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Yeah (laughs)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . Dako. (Call them.)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Aschen, onara aahnik korchen, aste pabe na. (They will come, now they are doing prayers, can't come now.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Onara bisram korben. (They will take rest.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ke? (Who?)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Guru Mahārāja.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Kothay? (Where?)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Oi ghare. (In that room.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Kon ghare? (Which room?)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Parar ghare. (Reading room.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Parar ghare royeche? (Are they in the reading room now?)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Na, kheye deye tarpor . . . (No, after taking lunch they will . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Prasad pacchen. (Having ''prasadam''.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Hya. (Yes.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Huh?

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Hya. (Yes.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Maharaj khacche? (Is Mahārāja eating?)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Hya. (Yes.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Okay we will go.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

(kīrtana in background)

(indistinct) . . . ei, shon na, oder niye ay, oder basiye de, khabar hoye geche . . . (indistinct) . . . bujhli . . . (hey, bring them, make them sit there, food is ready . . . (indistinct) . . . have you understood . . .)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Hare Kṛṣṇa.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hare Kṛṣṇa . . . (indistinct) . . . what you want somebody comes?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Eh?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' You want . . . (indistinct) . . . comes?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Yes.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Apni . . . (indistinct) . . . bhijiye niye asi. (You will . . . (indistinct) . . . let me bring it after soaking.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Alpo kore niye ne, baire, bhijiye na, jal kharap hoye yabe, ekta mage kore niye dhuye dao, mage . . . mage dhuba, ek mag jal niye yaba, bujhle . . . (Take a little bit, outside, don't by putting it in the water, then water will become bad, take in a mug and wash it, mug . . . mug wash in the mug, go with a mug of water, understood . . .)

(indistinct Bengali conversation)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Apnar khaoa hoye . . . onar khaoar age apnar khaoa hoye yabe . . . hm khub slow . . . (Your lunch will be over before him . . . hmm very slow . . .)

(indistinct Bengali conversation)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Ei ye, apnar ei album theke onek photo kom kore dite hobe . . . mane album theke . . . (indistinct) . . . photographer. (Have to reduce some photos from your album . . . album . . . (indistinct) . . . photographer.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ei . . . ei bengal, photo ta niye aso . . . ki likhbe? . . . (indistinct) . . . lekho. (Please bring the photo of Bengal . . . what will you write? . . . (indistinct) . . . write.) (break)

'''Gurudāsa:''' Passport?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Passport . . . in all the world.

'''Gurudāsa:''' In what year?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' 38.

'''Gurudāsa:''' 38. Oh.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' When I retired from service.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Ah.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Just I asked my officer to give me a passport.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Oh.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' It took me only five minutes.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Five minutes?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Jawaharlal Nehru gave me a passport.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Oh.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' He took 5 minutes, I offer you, six, there was six also to get passport and I only got it within two minutes, five minutes. The passport officer there assistant in charge, he was astonished, "How could he issue?" But you're officer is my officer.

'''Gurudāsa:''' (laughs)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Here find everywhere, oh. And he came . . . (indistinct) . . . to get the passport to a seat . . . (indistinct)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Jaya.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' That passport is still with me. Little things . . . (indistinct) . . . I couldn't go very early.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Oh.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' My health is permitting.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Oh.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' I present you God's position (laughs) I got ill . . . sick.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Yes.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' So I haven't done that. Because my father that Bhaktivinoda told me, "You do not go out of India."

'''Gurudāsa:''' Oh he told you?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Still I could go . . . (indistinct) . . . got the passport.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Oh still that is . . . then you got ill.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Yes and his wish must be fulfilled. So I got a little.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Oh.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' I couldn't move.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Haribol.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Bhaktivinoda Thakur's wish, how can I disobey?

'''Gurudāsa:''' Yes. Impossible.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Though I tried to do it. But.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Impossible.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' And his wish is on him.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Yes.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' And they have come and brought you.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Yes, yes…

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . I rented, I rented just as . . . but (break) I rented, I rented . . . but in Bengali . . . Gurubandana . . . you don't do read Bengali otherwise I would have shown you . . . (indistinct)

'''Gurudāsa:''' Oh.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' He very glad to see me. Number of issues . . . ora ekta kagaj ber korto . . . (they used to publish one paper . . .) issue, issue, second issue . . .ar baki ekti, sob complete ache, oi padya gulo (. . . rest all have complete, that poetry.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Bangla, bangla padya, bhalo laglo? (Bengali, Bengali poetry, did you like it?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Besh sundar, ati sundar. (Very nice, excellent.) (break)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Onek bachor kore, ar noy . . . ei ye Uniso tirish sale, ekattiris sale, bujhlen? (For many years . . . in those days from 1930 or 31, do you know?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ekattiris sale. (Of the year 1931.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ekattiris sal. Onek din age. (1931. Many days ago.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Baba bar korto, ei kagaj khan ber korto. Takhan, dada bolle . . . dekhun . . . bolle amar kshati hocche, mejh di ke bollen. Ami bollam, tumi yodi erokom korbe . . . ami ki korbo cup kore lukiye roilum . . . (indistinct) . . . amar kshati hocche. Ami kshati korchi? Dao bandha kore dao . . . (indistinct) . . . elo sob kagaj patra niye . . . ya kichu niye cole gelo. Oi sob rekhe diyeche. (break) . . . (indistinct) . . . sobta dini, namtao railo . . . (indistinct) . . . ekhono korto, ami korchi na, pacjan sange nei bole. Ar ami ek bachor ber korechi. Oder noa da bolle, lobhe amar kshati korchi. Ami bollam, ami kshati korlam dadar? Ami bhalo katha bolchi loke . . . kshatita ki korlam? Na loke ar paisa debe na oke. Paisa to ami cai na, yodi kshati hoy, ami kshati korbo na. Paisa . . . ami kshati korbo na. Kaj bandha, noile kaj . . . ajke ami likhle kato jinish beroto . . . (Father used to publish this paper. Then . . . brother said that I am incurring loss, he said this to my middle sister. I said if you say like this . . . I silently hid myself . . . (indistinct) . . . I am incurring loss. Is it me who is causing this loss, then close it . . . . (indistinct) . . . then they came and took away all the papers and documents. All were kept. (break) . . . (indistinct) . . . didn't give the ownership, the name is also retained . . . (indistinct) . . . not starting it now as I don't have any companion, because I have no people. I published it for one year. ''Noa da'' (one of the elder brothers) said to them that I am causing him monetary loss by my greed. I said, am I causing loss to my elder brother. I was telling good words but people . . . . what loss did I incurred? That no one will pay him again. I didn't want money . . . I will not make a loss. Money . . . will not make any loss. Work stopped, but if I could have been writing then many things could be published today.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ekhan oi amader sei Gosvami Maharaj din `kato caliyechen. (Now that Goswami Mahārāja ran for few days.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Yatai karun dekhun . . . thik yatai koruk, direct tar . . . Srila Bhaktivinod Thakurer mukh theke tar . . . (indistinct) . . . tar bhab bhangi, tar balbar iye . . . (indistinct) . . . dekhen ni. Ekhene . . . ei . . . oi saheb ra esechilo onno khub baro baro, chobi dui-ek khana chilo na. Sei number, saat numbere, ogulo . . . baki gulo korechi, tin bachor korechi. Ei sob bhanga, dekhun, eikhane sob bhanga kicchu nei, ei darja, jalna parjanta . . . (indistinct) . . . ekta darja chilo na, ekta kori chilo na. Kori kine ene pariyechi. (Whatever you may do, hearing directly from . . . Srila BhaktiVinoda Thakura's mouth of his . . . (indistinct) . . . his emotions and bodily postures . . . (indistinct) . . . you have not seen that. Here . . . in this place . . . once some great Britishers have come and one or two pictures of them were there. All those and the other seven I rescued, did it for three years there. All broken, see, all are broken here, nothing intact, from this door to windows . . . (indistinct) . . . not a single door was there, no frame. I bought and fitted it.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sob niye geche. (All taken away.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Egulo sob bhanga . . . (indistinct) . . . chad pore geche, ekhene du manus garta, ek manus du manus garta . . . (indistinct) . . . tarpor ekhene baro, baro gach chilo, sei gach guloke fello erom kore, oi . . . oi beray giye daram kore porlo. Bat gach, Asathya gach. (These are all broken . . . (indistinct) . . . the roof collapsed, here big holes with the depth of about one to two men height . . . (indistinct) . . . then there were big big trees, those trees removed like in this way that, those fall down with a sound over the wall. Banyan tree, Peepal tree.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eto baro gach. (Such big trees.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Eto baro gach. Sei chobi . . . kothay ekhon ber korte parbo na . . . (indistinct) . . . ber kore rakhbo ek samay, dekhben kiram gach chilo oi gulo. Eguloy bahu taka kharca hoyeche, ei gulo uddhar korte, mandirke tairi korte. Ekta kac chilo na, kac ekhana chilo na, ekta jalna darja chilo na, sob fak, ekhaneo fak . . . (Such big trees. Picture . . . don't know where it is now . . . will find out sometime later, see yourself what type of trees were those. Huge amount of money spent to renovate and build the temple. Not a single piece of glass was there, nor door and windows, all open spaces here and there . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Onekdin khali porechilo. (It was abandoned for many days.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Saat bachchar. Bagh thakto. (Seven years. Tigers used to stay.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Bagh thakto. (Tigers used to stay.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Na, ami onek bachchar korechi, kintu parisodh deoar lok chilo na. Apni bolechilen dekhben, amar baro ananda hocchilo, apnara yodi korben didha nei . . . (indistinct) . . . sarthak holo . . . (I worked very hard, but no one was there to reciprocate. I was feeling very glad when you were telling what you see, if you do something here then I have no hesitation . . . (indistinct) . . . would be successful.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sotti, ar era sob dekhbe. (That's true, they will look after.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Era yodi bangla sikhe, tahole to hobe. (It will be very good if they can learn Bengali.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Bangla sikhche, oi ye Acyutananda . . . (Learning Bengali, that Acyutananda . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Acyut khub sikhche. Acyut khub sikhche. (Acyut learned very nicely, Acyut learned very nicely.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Give me water, cold water.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Cold water. Oh. Hari Das. Hari. (Ah. Hari Das. Harii.)

'''Hari:''' Aschi. (Coming.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Cold water dao, thanda jal. (Give cold water. Cold water.)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Cold water?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Onek din dhore, bujhlen, ami ki korbo? Ami boka lok, cup kore pore thaki, ami . . . (For many days, you see, for many days . . . what should I do, I am a foolish man, just remain seated silently, I . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oi . . . oi thik ache. Amaderke odik ta lease diye den . . . (That's appropriate. Just give us a lease for that side . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hya, apni jagater loker eto upokar korchen, ye ami r parlum na, ami khali dui-ek khan chele rekhechilam . . . (indistinct) . . . Bhaktivinoder katha uni sob guloi bole gelen, r baki yodi kichu thake amar mukhe sikhiyechen tai . . . (indistinct Bengali) . . . (Yes, you are doing good for all the world, I couldn't refuse, I just kept two or three boys . . . (indistinct) . . . the teaching of Bhaktivinoda all were spread by him (Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Thakura), and remain part which were taught me, that . . .) taking notes (laugh) . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya, hya. (Yes, yes.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . bollen tomader keu philosophy porbe. . . . (indistinct) . . . Stever . . . (indistinct) . . . amake dekhate parbe college? . . . (indistinct) . . . dekhalum . . . bollen . . . bollen nah, cheleta kichu sikheche bote, ta ei sampurna bangla ekhono bujhte pareni, kichu sikheche . . . (said who teaches you philosophy . . . (indistinct) . . . Steve . . . (indistinct) . . . will you show me once in the college . . . so I showed him . . . then he said the man has learned something for sure but complete Bengali will not yet understand, have learnt something) (laughs) . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Edike kar photo eta? (Whose photo is this, here at this side?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ogulo amar photo, onek bachor ager, takhon choto chilam mota chilum. Dos bachor, egaro bachor ager . . . panero bachor ager kar photo. Tabe Bhaktivinod Thakurer chobi ei suit case rekhechi . . . (indistinct) . . . kalke . . . (It's my photo, many years ago, then my body was bulky. About ten-eleven or fifteen years, many years ago. But I kept Bhaktivinoda Tahkura's photo here in this suitcase . . . (indistinct) . . . tomorrow . . .)

'''Gurudāsa:''' You also photographed that portrait?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Eh?

'''Gurudāsa:''' You also photographed that portrait?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Fo . . .?

'''Gurudāsa:''' That famous photo.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Photo?

'''Gurudāsa:''' You photograph that one?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' You like photography?

'''Gurudāsa:''' Acha, that one is famous all around the world.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' All over the world.

'''Gurudāsa:''' All over the world.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' That photo was framed by me, originally. You saw in the album?

'''Gurudāsa:''' Yes.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' That was very photo.

'''Gurudāsa:''' But this one especially.

'''Yadubara:''' He has that on the album also.

'''Gurudāsa:''' It is very famous . . .

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Tinte camera enechilo bidesh theke. Ekta nilo Pradyutma, ar ekta nilo iye . . . Kasim Alir chele. (Received three cameras from foreign. One taken by Pradyutma, another taken by the son of . . . the son of Kasim Ali.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Tinte photographer . . . (indistinct) . . . ekta nile Pradyutma, ekta Kasim Alir chele, Mahindra . . . chele ekta kinle, ar ami ekta kinlum . . . (indistinct) . . . khub first class . . . (indistinct) . . . r sei camera diye onek gulo chobi tulechilum. (Three photographers . . . (indistinct) . . . Pradyutma took one, the son of Kasim Ali, Mahindra . . . son got one, and I got one . . . (indistinct) . . . very good, first class . . . with that camera I took many pictures.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh.

'''Gurudāsa:''' You can ask Prabhupāda . . . (indistinct)

'''Yadubara:''' Prabhupāda?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct) . . . yato Kolkatar bhadralok chilo, sob ami . . . (indistinct) . . . niye gechilam, ye baba colegelen, ei amar dada achen . . . (indistinct) . . . collis taka kore bari bhara korlum oi Halsibagane . . . (indistinct) . . . Mayapur theke . . . (indistinct) . . . kole bose . . . (indistinct) . . . gari kore kore loker . . . (indistinct Bengali) (. . . whoever notable gentleman was there at Kolkata, everyone came . . . (indistinct) . . . took him, father passed away, my elder brother is here . . . (indistinct) . . . rented a house for 40 rupees at Halsibagan. From Māyāpur . . . (indistinct) . . . by sitting on lap . . . (indistinct) . . . everyday people used to take him by their car . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oi Mayapure? (At Māyāpur?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Na, ei Calcuttay, niye giye, sadharan lok, baroloker sathe alap korato. (No, at Calcutta, they used to take. Common people, got to know a few gentlemen.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Calcuttay kothay chilen takhon? (Where at Calcutta you used to stay then?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Oi Halsibagane . . . bari korechilam bharay, collis taka bhara diye. (At Halsibagan . . . took a house with 40 rupees rent.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Konkhanta? (Which area?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Halsibagan.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Halsibagan, hya okhaneto amio gechi. (Halsibagan, Yes. I also used to go there.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Tarpor sekhan theke, oi toiri holo . . . ogulo r deben na, ogulo r deben na, tahole ami r . . . (From there, that was built . . . don't give those things any more, don't give those things, then I will not be . . .) (laughs)

'''Yadubara:''' Prabhupāda would you like to have a photo with Lalitā Prasāda?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya, hya. (Yes, yes.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Dekhun esob amader private katha gulo . . . (Please don't keep these private talks of ours . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Na, na . . . osob katha amra chapbo keno. (No, no . . . we will not publish those talks.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Thak na . . . (Let those be . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh apnader bhai bhai er katha, amra keno chapbo? Apnader bhai bhaier se ekta ghanista tar katha. Sekatha alada. (Those are the words between you brothers, why should we publish. Those were the talks between your brothers who were very close to each other. Those words are different.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Se na, onya rakam ghanista ta . . . nijer duksha. (Not exactly, another type of closeness . . . my grief.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya. (Yes.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ye, bhai eromkam korlo na . . . . . . (indistinct Bengali) . . . (Oh my brother you didn't do it . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Baro bhai ektu cote gelo, choto bhai ektu namra holo. Ei duniyar niyam. (The elder brother became a little angry and the younger brother had to be a little obliged. These are the norms of the whole world.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (laughs)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eigulo tader to kono anya katha na. O amra jani. (There's nothing more in this. That we know.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Tabe ami Noa da ke tairi kore kore bolehilam sob bhabe . . . . . . (indistinct Bengali) (But I prepared ''Noa da'' (elder brother) in many ways . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Korechilen boleito eto baro holo. (It is because of his service he became so great.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Onya bhaigulo kicchu sahayya kare na, ulte amake badha diyeche. (All the other brothers didn't help, rather they prevented me.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Orakam hoyechilo boleito, amrao sampakka hoyechilo, kichu seva korchi. (Because it so happened, we also got to have a relationship, rendering some service.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ulte aro, onya bhai bon gulo amake badha diyeche . . . (indistinct) . . . keno karis . . . keno karis? (On the contrary, all other brothers and sisters had opposed me . . . (indistinct) . . . why do you do, why . . . why you do that?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hingsa, bhaiye bhaiye. (Envy amongst brothers.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ami bollam na ami thakboi. Ami korbo . . . (indistinct Bengali) (I said, "No I will be there. I will do . . .")

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . kono jinis ami caina. (I don't want anything.) I don't require anything, Ei jonyei ami morechi (laughs), tarpor nije kato boi arambha korbo . . . (indistinct) . . . uni bandha korlen, ami nije arambha korlam (. . . for that reason I got finished (laughs), then I begun to do some books of my own . . . (indistinct) . . . he closed it down, I started my own.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' (indistinct) . . . sit down here. No.

'''Yadubara:''' I don't think he can move very well.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No he cannot move, I can move.

'''Yadubara:''' Yeah.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Where shall I sit?

'''Yadubara:''' It would be best if he could turn. I'm not sure if he can do that, and you could sit here.

'''Prabhupāda:''' I will sit down here.

'''Yadubara:''' Yeah, you could sit on the chair here.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh.

'''Yadubara:''' And if he can turn a little, I can take the photo from there.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ar eiye apni, amake ekta subidhe dicchen, eo amar ekta bhagyer katha. (And that you are offering me a favour, that is also a good fortune for me.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Niscoi colbe. (Will surely do.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Yadubara:''' Take candid and portrait, that also.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Hare Kṛṣṇa.

'''Yadubara:''' Lalitā Prasāda, could you look this way?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Bolche apni oi dikta ceye dekhben ektu. (They are asking you to look that way.) You should always address him Ṭhākura Mahārāja

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' They don't know that's why . . .

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (laughs) . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oder desheri cal hocche ei. Thakur dada keo nam dhore dake. (This is the norm of their country. They call their grandfathers also by name.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Yadubara:''' Very nice. Thank you very much.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Apnara eto kharac korben keno? . . . (indistinct) . . . keno amar jonye kharac korben? (Why have you spent so much money . . . why you spend so much?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Apnar bacbar jonye Koti taka kharac korleo, eo kichu noy. (To keep you alive, even spending millions of dollars is not sufficient.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ami khub simple. Amar kicchu caina. Amar ekta duksha roibe, bhakti korle na, nam korle na. Naam koro . . . (I am a very simple person. I don't have any demand as such. My only lamentation is that I haven't got ''Bhakti'', not chanted the Name. Chant the Name . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Na, era sob nam kore. (Yes, all of them chant the Name.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hya, hya era kore. Era onekshan dhore nam korchilo bose bose. (Yes, yes, they do. They were chanting for a long time sitting there.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Nam kore. (They chant.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . se amar mathay, mathay thakbe . . . (indistinct) . . . Kolkatar khabar niyechilem . . . (indistinct) . . . ei Ananda bajare, ei bar. (He is in my head, let Him remain in my head . . . (indistinct) . . . have enquired about Calcutta, this time, in Anada bajar.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sakali bolche, Kolkatate Kirtan hoate Naxalies. (Everyone is saying that because of ''Kirtan'' performances at Calcutta, Naxalites) (break) . . . komeche . . . (go to reduce . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hya. (Yes)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Naxalite amader sange neceche. (Naxalites even danced with us.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ke? (Who?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Naxalite. Oiye naxalite sob marche lok ke. (Naxalite. Those naxalites who are killing people.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ora nakshal. (They are all ''nakshal''.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya, nakshal. (Yes ''nakshal''.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hya, naxalites. (Yes naxalites.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Tara amader sange neceche, prasad peyechilo. (They have danced with us, took prasadam.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Badmais, badmais sob. (Criminals, all criminals.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sob badmais . . . (All criminals . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Bhalo hoye geche. (They become gentleman.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Bhalo hoye geche. (Become gentleman.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Apni khub upakar korlen desher. (You have done a great service to the country.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sakali bolche Kirtan holo bolei theme geche. Sakale bolche. (Everyone is saying that because of the performance of ''kirtana'' this has stopped. Everyone is saying.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Plague.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya, plague er samay. Takhan ami . . . (Yes, during the time of the plague. Then I was . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct Bengali)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ami ek bachor . . . amar mone ache, ami takhan choto, ami necechi oi Nam Kirtane. (I was then one year old . . . I remember, although I was a kid then, I danced in the ''Nam kirtana''.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . ora elo . . . (indistinct) . . . babake bollum, ye baba ora eyeche . . . (indistinct) . . . ami yabo na. (whispers) Woodburn ke bolle tumi egulo karo. Yei galpo guli janento . . . (they came . . . (indistinct) . . . informed father that they have come . . . (indistinct) . . . I will not go. (whispers) and went to tell Woodburn that you do all these things. Are you aware of those incidents . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm, ke . . . (who . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Woodburn . . . mane Governor, Woodburn. (Woodburn . . . means Governor, Woodburn.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Accha, Woodburn. (Oh, Woodburn.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Woodburn ke balo giye, tumi yodi plague tarate cao, Hari-nam na korle yabe na, Hari-nam ano byas . . . (Went and told Woodburn that if you wish to eradicate plague, Hari-nama must be performed, elst it won't go. Perform Hari-nama that's it . . .)

'''Gurudāsa:''' Hare Kṛṣṇa . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' The car is ready or not? We shall have to go.

'''Gurudāsa:''' I think Śyāmasundara is just finishing fixing.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oita khub colche. (That one is running well.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . bangalir mato temon kapor porbe, ekhon kapor porbar emon . . . (they will wear a sari like a Bengali, now they will wear a sari like . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya, Meyera sari porche. (Yes, Ladies are wearing saris.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hya, tai to bolchi . . . (indistinct Bengali) (That's what I am saying . . .)

'''Gurudāsa:''' Śyāmasundara prabhu.

'''Yadubara:''' Śyāmasundara how long will it be?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct) . . . (whisper) segulo sob dekhabo apnake . . . (indistinct) . . . oikhanei ache . . . (indistinct) . . . apnake kichu korte hobe na . . . (indistinct) . . . yodi car piece chay pich o rakhen, ta segulo amar theke yabe buro bayose. Oi gulo . . . (indistinct Bengali) (. . . will show those all to you . . . (indistinct) . . . all are there . . . (indistinct) . . . you don't have to do anything . . . (indistinct) . . . even if you use 4 to 6 pieces, the things will remain, in this old age. Those . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Apni ar baire-taire yan na naki. (Seems that you don't go for outside work any more.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ami uthte pari na, ami ekhan theke okhane uthte parina . . . (indistinct) . . . hamaguri diye yete hoy . . . (indistinct Bengali) (I can't get up even, I can't move here to there . . . (indistinct) . . . I am to crawl if I need to move . . .)

'''Yadubara:''' He says five more minutes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct) . . . Western . . . press.

'''Yadubara:''' Na, na. (No, no.) (laughs)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Take one or two . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ar ektu thanda jal diye aso. (Please bring a little more cold water.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hya, Oh Hari. (Yes, Oh Hari.)

'''Hari:''' Eito. (Yes.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ene dao . . . jal dao . . . amar Hari achena sob pare . . . (Please bring . . . give water . . . my Hari can do everything . . .) (laughs)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Amar . . . (My . . .) (indistinct)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Accha''.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct) . . . (laughs) . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Apnar maa, meyeti khub . . . (Your, the mother and daughter are very . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Khub . . . (Very . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ki holo re, jal dili ne? (What happened, you haven't given water?)

'''Hari:''' Hm, dicchi. (Yes, giving.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Dao, thanda. Sabceye thanda jal niye aso, ene dao . . . mukhdiye khan, mukh diye khan . . . oder alada rakhbe, kicchu hobe na . . . apni or maa ke ektu jal dilen na, more jay yodi. Ektu jal deben na. onek upakar pabe . . . (indistinct) . . . thik katha. (Give, cold. Bring cold water, give here . . . you can touch your lips and drink, touch your lips and drink . . . they have separate water glass, there won't be any problem . . . will you give some water with your hand to his mother, she may die soon. Can't you give little water, she will be greatly benefitted . . . (indistinct) . . . that's correct.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Amar kache. (To me.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . banglar meye. (Bengal's daughter.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Amar kache onek sob meye asche. Aj kal to meyeder sob biye hoy na. Ami mone korchi oke head kore tader ke sob siksha debo jonye ekhane anbo. (Many ladies are coming to me. Now-a-days women don't get married. I am thinking that I will bring those ladies here for training and will make her as head of them.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct Bengali) . . . den, den pathiye den (. . . you can send.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Kimba ekhane yodi bari kori . . . (Or, if we can make a building here . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Eto bhaloi hoy, ekhane thakbe. Takhan gaan bajna colbe . . . ananda hobe, Hari nama colbe . . . (indistinct Bengali) (It will be good, they can stay. Bhajan Kirtan will happen . . . all will be happy, Hari nama will be also chanted . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ekta bari kore, oke head kore rekhe debo. (Will make a building and will keep her as head.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Sob katha sunbe . . . (indistinct) . . . beche thakle hoy, bayos holo besh. (She will abide by your words . . . (indistinct) . . . hope she will be alive, she has become old.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Beshi bayos to noy. (Not that old.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (whispers) Bayes bahanna-tippanna. (Age 52 to 53.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Achha.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Bayos hoyeche, rakhbar bayos nei ar, tabe nijer . . .(indistinct) . . . ciro yaouban to, oi jonya cehara ta . . . (indistinct Bengali) . . . (She has become old, she is no longer young . . .) (indistinct) . . . yakhan maa eschilen . . . (indistinct) (. . . then when mother came . . .) (laughs)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ta apnar bhai der madhye dujoni brahmacari ar na aro sob? (So amongst your brother's two are ''brahmacari'' or others as well?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Sob na . . . (indistinct) . . . sej dar duti chele, bor dar . . . (Not all . . . (indistinct) . . . but one of my elder brother's two sons, and eldest brother's . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' My Guru Mahārāja and Lalitā Prasāda Ṭhākura both are from the very beginning strict ''brahmacārīs''.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Ohh.

'''Śyāmasundara:''' (outside) Try it now.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' From the age of six I was disgusted with meeting females.

'''Gurudāsa:''' Oh.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That, that means from the past life you were a . . .

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hya, past life chilem. Apnake bolchi bolben na) . . . (indistinct) . . . (Yes, In a past life I was. Don't tell that one . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya. (Yes.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (whispers) . . . (indistinct) . . . cheleke niye asbi, niye elo . . . dam diye kine niye elo . . . (indistinct) . . . (laughs) . . . (indistinct) . . . bollo, amar gharta khule de . . . (indistinct Bengali) (. . . you bring your son, so he was brought . . . purchased with a price . . . (indistinct) . . . (laughs) . . . (indistinct) . . . told to open my room . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Kata diner janya . . . (For how many days . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Chay bachchar pare, chay bachchar. (Six years, after six years.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Chay bachchar. (Six years.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . ye din gelen, sedin niye gelen . . . tei-se March . . . (the day he went on that day only he took away . . . 23rd March . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sei ghar tay apni cabi diye rekhechen. (That room you have kept locked.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Sei ghare, cabi diye, ami yai ni . . . amar ek bhaipo ke diyechilum. Sei bhaipo ghar tay puja kore, amader bother korar kichu nei, kintu majhe majhe sei ghure . . . (indistinct) . . . ekdin bodh hoy giyechilo . . . dekhe ese . . . (indistinct) . . . ar se baro ghar . . . sekhane pancas jan lok easily boste parbe. (That room, after locking, I haven't gone . . . had given the keys to one of my nephews. He used that room for puja room, never bothered to intimate us. . . . (indistinct) . . . most probably they went there one day to see . . . (indistinct) . . . it's a big room . . . about 50 people can sit easily.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Achha.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Chabbis feet lamba, ar egaro feet caora. (26 feet long and 11 feet wide.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Khub baro ghar. (Very big room.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ei gharta maa diye gelo, uni yaoar pore . . . (indistinct) . . . kono din bhara cai ni . . . (indistinct Bengali) (Mother gave that room, after her passing . . . (indistinct) . . . we never asked for rent . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ar or ghar to ekta ache. (And he has another room for him.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Huh?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Apnar dadar, tar oto ekta ghar ache. (Your elder brother, he also has a room.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Tar choto ghar chilo, ektalay, sei ghare . . . (indistinct Bengali) . . . (He had a small room, on the first floor, in that room . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Besh korecho. (You have done good.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Sei onek yukti kore korechi . . . (indistinct) . . . ki korbo. Ei Mayapure . . . (indistinct) . . . map diye matir thakur yara duti ache ar duti kather thakur ache. Oi Bishnu Prya ar Lakshmi Prya. Lakshmi Prya matir thakur. Ar ekti . . . (indistinct) . . . ar Bishnu Prya kather. Lakshmi Prya . . . (indistinct) . . . matir. Erpor British ra eschilo . . . (indistinct) . . . Roy Bahadur . . . district engineer . . . (indistinct) . . . Sarkar. Yar bhai Kishori Sarkar chilo na. Se iyer jamai . . . Sirish Babu . . . (indistinct) . . .Sirish Babuder bhagni pati . . . (indistinct Bengali) (Did it after a lot of thinking . . . (indistinct) . . . what else can I do . . . (indistinct) . . . in Māyāpur . . . two Deities made of clay and two of wood. Bishnu Priya and Lakshmi Priya. Lakshmi Priya is made of clay. Another one . . . (indistinct) . . . and Bishnu Priya is of wood. Lakshmi Priya . . . is of clay. Britishers came once . . . Roy Bahadur . . . district engineer . . . Sarkar. Whose brother was Kishori Sarkar. He was the brother in law of Sirish Babu . . . the brother in law of Sirish Babu's family . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Accha''.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . se ar oi dujone, Mayapur amra . . . (indistinct) . . .chotobela amra sakole . . . (indistinct) . . . ta Sirish Babu ke yakhani kolakatay. . . . amar kono bhaike yodi guardian kore dile ami doure . . . (indistinct Bengali) (. . . he and other two, we together in Māyāpur . . . (indistinct) . . . we were in our childhood then . . . (indistinct) . . . Sirish Babu, whenever he used to visit Calcutta . . . as a guardian for my brother's I used to rush . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Finished?

'''Śyāmasundara:''' No. I need one small piece of wire. I wondered . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Accha ektu tar ache? (Do you have a small piece of wire?)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ki tar? (What type of wire?)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Loha? (Iron wire?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ye kono tar. (Any type of wire.)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' Electric wire about this long.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (Bengali conversations with Prabhupāda and others)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ki? Ki? Ki? (What? What? What?)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Na, electric tar. (No, electric wire.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Electric caire? (Asking for electric wire.)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Din. (Give this.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ei dao. (Give, give it here.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Dao, dao. (Give, give.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Dao. Kete dao na okhan theke. (Give. Just cut it from here.)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Eito amar ghare ache. (I have in my room.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Dao. Kete dao. Na hole darkar . . . (indistinct) . . . kete dao. Ek colour. Ami sob rakhi, (Give. Cut it and give. If required . . . (indistinct) . . . cut it and give. Single color. I keep almost everything,) I keep everything. . . . (indistinct) . . . (laughs)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Apnar abhab ki. (You have no scarcity.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ami . . . sob, every . . . kon dike janina balun. (I . . . all, every . . . tell me something of which I don't have any idea about.)

'''Śyāmasundara:''' (laughs) He's got everything.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Oi tare hobe? (Will that wire do?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya. (Yes of course).

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Yadi mota tar darkar hoy tao pabe. (If some thick wire is needed that too can be arranged.)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' ''Accha''.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Amar, amar ei buro bayose . . . (My, in my old age . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Accha, duto rasta ache ki? Ekta rasta ei rasta ta to bhal na. Ei kaca rasta ta. (Are there two routes? In one route the roads are not good. It is unconstructed clay road.)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Konta? (Which one?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Amra eschilam ei kaca rasta diye. Ar kono rasta ache? Ekjan bollo ye, odik diye paka rasta. (We came by that unconstructed road. Is there any other route? Someone said that there is one asphalt road on that side.)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Se anek ghur hobe. (It will be a longer route.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Na, shunun. Ekhen theke Phule. (No, listen please. From here to Phule.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Phulia hya, Phule. (Phulia yes, Phule.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Paka rasta. (Asphalt road.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya. (Yes.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ekbare mise yabe. (Directly it will merge.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Seiti to bhalo hoy. (That will be better.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Accha, apni eidike . . . (indistinct) . . . bridge paben. (Well, from here you will get . . . (indistinct) . . . bridge.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ta apnar adh ganta beshi lagbe. Mile dash . . . bridge diye kuri minute lagbe. (That will take more than half an hour. After ten miles . . . by the bridge it will take 20 minutes.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Mile dasher. (About ten miles.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hya. (Yes.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ta hok. Kintu paka rasta diye yabo. (Let it be but we will go by the asphalt road.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Paka rasta diye yabe . . . apnake bolchi . . . oi libraryr pas diye beriye, oikhane giye, saman cole yabe, oi gate ta. (Go by asphalt road . . . I will tell you . . . go out beside the library, from there straight away it goes, that gate.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' (to Bengali devotee) Tumi ektu baba ektu egiye debe . . . (You please physically guide us a little . . .)
.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Accha, tui noy ektu egiye diye ay . . . (Well, you please go with them a little distance.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya, ektu egiye diye eso. (Yes, please come with us a little.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Gate paryanta egiye diye ay. (Go with them up to the gate.)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Thik ache. (Okay.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Gate par hoye gele, gari par hote dekhle . . . ebar gari par hole, tui bari cole asbi. Ar ese amake khabar dibi 'ora cole gelo', Hari re. Accha, oi korbe. Ei rasta diye yabe. (After crossing the gate, if you see a car has crossed . . . after the car has crossed, then you return. And after returning, give me news that, "They have gone." Hari, did you understand? Okay, he will do so. They will go by this route.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya, ami bolechi, Phulia diye. (Yes, I have said, via Phulia.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Phulia yan, Phuliar ye gate ta ache . . . (Go to Phulia, the gate is there at Phulia . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . Shantipur.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Na, Shantipur diye . . . (indistinct) . . . ek bare Calcutta. (No, not from Shantipur . . . (indistinct) . . . straight to Calcutta.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Na, Kolkata to yabo na. (We will not go to Calcutta.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Kothay? (Where?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Amra ekhon Mayapure yabo. (We will go to Māyāpur now.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Oh, Phulia diye ghure yaben. (Oh, you will go via Phulia then.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya, Phulia diye Shantipur diye. (Yes. Via Phulia and Shantipur.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Khub bhalo hobe . . . (indistinct) . . . apni to egiye yaben. (It will be very good . . . (indistinct) . . . you are going ahead.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya, sei to. (Yes, that's what.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Apnara keno ei rasta diye eschen . . . (Why have you come through this road . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Janina. (Not aware.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Three miles kom ache. (You would have traveled three miles less.) Three, could have saved three miles, by coming direct from the Phulia. Paka road . . . pakka road (. . . Asphalt road . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Se to janena. (That they don't know.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Tumi rasta ta ektu dekhiye dao Phulia diye. (You please show us up to the road, through Phulia.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Here is Phulia, here is Shantipur, here is Kṛṣṇa-nagar . . . (indistinct) You have come here.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Here, here.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' There you took turn and you come here . . . (indistinct) . . . you are come two, two, two or three mile saved, you could have easily saved.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And road is also nice. 10 miles.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And road also nice.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Road is nice.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Kacca road, ekhono pakka hoy ni. Amader, amader . . . (indistinct Bengali) (. . . unconstructed road, asphalting not yet done. Our, our . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya. (Yes.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ekhono . . . (indistinct) . . . (Until now . . . (indistinct) . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Rasta ar kare ni. (Asphalting not done.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Rasta r hoyni . . . ei Nineteen thirty sevene . . . yakhan iye eschilo . . . Anderson . . . takhan se bollo ami paka korbo . . . (indistinct) . . . ajo paka holo na, ei to Baruipur road . . . (indistinct) . . . ei road. (Have not laid asphalt . . . in 1937 . . . when he came . . . Anderson . . . he told me that I will construct the asphalt road . . . but until date it is not done, this Baruipur road . . . . (indistinct) . . . this road.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya. (Yes.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Yak, apni . . . tahole apni Nabadwipi yaben. (Whatever, you are here . . . that means you go up to Nabadwip only.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya, Yes, along with.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Oh, tahole . . . (indistinct) . . . Ganga nadite . . . (indistinct) (Oh, then . . . (indistinct) . . . Ganges . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ajke yabo na, kal yabo. (I will not go today, tomorrow I will.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya . . . (Yes . . .) (indistinct)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Eder ghuriye niye ya to (You please go with them) . . . (indistinct)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Tahole to ektu dur hoye yay. (Then it will be quite far.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Phulia hoye aschilen. (You came via Phulia.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya, Phulia hoyei asa uchit, yanta na. (Yes, you had to come via Phulia, I did not know . . .)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Ekebare metalic . . . (Then metallic . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Phulia, Phulia . . . Phulia gate. Oi gate . . . (indistinct) . . . sei gater oikhane dhuke porlo . . . (indistinct) . . . ar apni ekhan diye yaben. (That gate . . . (indistinct) . . . enter near that gate . . . (indistinct) . . . and you go from here.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh . . . jana nei to . . . (Oh . . . were not known . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Apni, apni Mayapur yaben? (You, will you go to Māyāpur?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya. (Yes.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' 1 hour lagbe. 15 miles. Katakshan, car minute, 1 hour. Ek ghantay pauche yaben. Apni namchilen kothay? (It will take about 1 hour. 15 miles. How long, 4 minutes, 1 hour. You will reach by 1 hour. Where will you stay?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Amra jayga kinechi. (We have purchased land.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Kon jayga? (Which place?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oi . . . (That . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Na, na, na. (No, no, no.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Tahole? (Then?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Amader Chaitanya . . . Yog pith ache na. (Our Caitanya . . . Yogapitha is there.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hya. (Yes.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Okhan theke der mile. (1.5 miles from there.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Mane, amader Math er aspase. (Then, adjacent to our Matha.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oi . . . between. Madhav Maharajer ar amader Yogpith . . . (That . . . between. Madhav Mahārāja's and our Yogapitha . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Madhav Maharajer . . . (indistinct Bengali) (Madav Mahārāja's . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Na, ato dure yete hoy na. Thik Yogpither khanik ta pore. (No, not that far. Just at a little distance from Yogapitha.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . ei side . . . (this side . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ei side. Ei side Madhav Maharajer parei amra . . . On this side. Madhav Mahārāja's Gaudiya Math is on this side.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Madhav Maharajer oi jayga diye par hon, oi khan diye par hon. (You cross over from Madhav Mahārāja's place, do you cross over from there?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Par hoi amra to edik diye yai. (We cross over from this side.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Kon dik diye? (From which side?)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Bagulia hoye. (Via Bagulia.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Bagulia hoye yan? Bridge er opor diye? (You go via Bagulia? Above the bridge?)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Na. (No.) direct.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Direct.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Bridge? (Over the bridge?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya. (Yes.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Huh?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya. (Yes.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Tahole . . . (indistinct) . . . na. (Then not via . . . (indistinct) . . . no.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Na, na. (No, no.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Oh. Tahole to . . . (indistinct Bengali) . . . (Then you go . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Par hote gele to . . . (indistinct Bengali) . . . (If you want to cross over then . . .)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Hya . . . (indistinct Bengali) (Yes . . .)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Oh. Tai janye . . . (indistinct) . . . Mayapure. (Oh. That's why . . . (indistinct) . . . Māyāpur.)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Mayapur bod hoy tin-car mile. (Māyāpur is probably 3 to 4 miles.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hya. Car mile. Pakka. Ami hete gechi kato bar. Oi sandhya kaler dike yete hobe . . . (indistinct Bengali) . . . (Yes. 4 miles. Confirm. So many times I have gone by walking. You have to go in the evening if you go by walking . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct) . . . Jagannath mandir ache. (Jagannatha temple is there.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya. (Yes.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . ekhon ki hoyeche janina. Aj tin bachor yai ni ar dekhini . . . (don't know what the situation is now. I have not gone for three years, I have not seen.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . (whispers) . . . Kanju ya byabhar kare (the way Kanju behaves) . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Na hajam hobe na kintu. Niyeche hajam hobe na. Hajam hocche na. Sob thak kore felche. Sob nasta korche. (Taken but won't be able to digest. They have taken but will not be able to maintain. Digestion is not happening. They are making everything faulty. Destroying everything.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Maha visaya buddhi.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . sunechen to? (. . . have you heard that?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Bhaiyer sathe anyay, janen to? . . . (indistinct) . . . bhai ta. (He cheated on his brother, do you know about this? . . . (indistinct) . . . that brother.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya, hya. (Yes, yes.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Badmais, janen na. (Don't you know his mischief?) . . . (indistinct) . . . or ye bou ta chilo . . . (indistinct Bengali) . . . (he had a wife . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya, hya. (Yes, yes.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . bou take nasta korlo (spoiled the wife) . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya. Sunchi. (Yes. I heard.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Tarpore, o abar . . . (indistinct) . . . meye ke biye kore niye esche . . . (indistinct) . . . biye kori . . . (indistinct) . . . (laughs) . . . (indistinct) . . . chele barrister . . . (Then he again married . . . (indistinct) . . . daughter and come . . . (indistinct) . . . let me marry you . . . (indistinct) . . . (laughs). . . . (indistinct) . . . the son is barrister . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Osob matlab kore barrister, ukil koreche, eisob hat korbar janya. (They have made them barrister, lawyer with a gameplan to capture all of them in their control.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Kato taka eikhan theke curi koreche, thakurer gayna curi kore, Mayapurer theke . . . (indistinct) . . . janen apni. . . . (indistinct) . . . Gaudiya Math . . . curi koreche. Kichu gayna bouer kache chilo, ache ekhon. Ar dui laksha taka aro curi kore jami bari korechilo . . . (indistinct) . . .ukil ra case korechilo. (Stole lots of money, the ornament of the Deities, from Māyāpur . . . (indistinct) . . . do you know? . . . (indistinct) . . . Gaudiya Math . . . stole from there. Ornaments were with the wife, it is still there. He stole two lakhs more and made some land and properties . . . (indistinct) . . . lawyers have filed a case.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' So let us go. Tahole amra uthi. (We are leaving now.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Se ar bole ki korbo, osob baje katha to (What is the benefit of saying, those are all dirty words . . .). . . (indistinct Bengali)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Or gun sob jani ami . . . (I know all his qualities quite well . . .) so.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Na, gharer katha sobi ami jani. (I know all the stories of our family.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya. (Yes.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ami boli na. Apnake bolte pari, onya ke na. Era bojhen na bole bollam egulo. Na hole boltum na. (I won't reveal it. I can tell you only, not to others. Because these people (foreign devotees) will not be able to understand, that's why I could tell you. Otherwise I would not have told.) (laughs)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ei, maa . . . maa ke balo era cole yabe. Ar maa ke khabar dao. (Hey, tell your mother they are going to leave. Inform your mother.)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Dicchi. (Okay.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Hya, maa ke balo. (Yes, tell mother once.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Where is Bhavānanda?

'''Yadubara:''' He is sleeping.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Apni . . . (You . . .)

'''Yadubara:''' I think he is a little bit sick.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ami maa ke bolechi, yakhani era asbe, khub yanta korbe. O sob nijei kare. Ar amar katha sune, aro . . . (I have told my mother that whenever these people will come, she should take good care of you all. She does everything. Now after hearing me, she will do more . . .)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Onara berobe. (They will leave.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Thik ache . . . khabar holo ajke? (Alright . . . was the food proper today?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Khabar, kheye tustu holo? (The food, are you satisfied after eating?)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' Khub kheyechi. (We have taken too much.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya, khub kheyechi, khub bhalo. (Yes taken too much, very good.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Bhagavaner payes to korte bollum, ke khabe na, tai payes korechi. (I was told to prepare sweet rice for the Lord, if anyone would like it. So the sweet rice was made.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sob jinis eto sundar hoyeche. (Each and every item was very nice.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ogulo Govinda bhoga cal. (Those were Govinda bhog rice.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Ogulo Govinda bhoga cal. (They were Govinda bhoga rice.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hya, Govinda bhoga cal. (Yes, Govinda bhoga rice.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Oigulo Murshidabad theke aniyechi. (I brought it from Murshidabad.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Murshidabad theke aniyechi (I have brought it from Murshidabad . . .). . . (indistinct Bengali)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Murshidabad.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Sekhan theke aniyechi. (I have brought from there.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Murshidabad.

(break)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . eke bollam, onek . . . (I told him, many) . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' (indistinct) . . . na purana lok to . . . (an old fellow here.)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Dekhun babar ya hater lekha, khamer pase lukono chilo . . . (indistinct) . . . asche. (See, the handwriting of my father was hidden in an envelope . . . (indistinct) . . . came here.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . sei katha guloi amar asche (saying the same thing) . . . (indistinct) . . . dekhechi ami. (I have seen.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Achha. Dekhun bhagavaner iccha sob, hobe ekdin . . . (Just see, everything is the will of the Lord, everything will happen on that day) . . . (indistinct)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Apnake ar ekta katha bolbo? (Should I tell you something?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . (whispers)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (continue whispering) . . . (indistinct) . . . ami Kesta ke cai ne, Radha ke cai ne . . . ami cai Radha Krsner jiboner miloner ye lila ta . . . (I don't want Kṛṣṇa, nor do I want Radha . . . I want that the pastime of Radha Kṛṣṇa's meeting . . . this pastime . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . darkar. (. . . that is required.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . Radharani . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' . . . Kṛṣṇa. Yakhani (Whenever) (whispers) . . . (indistinct) . . . amar anurodh (. . . my request.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Achha''.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . (whispers) . . . ami yat dur chance peyechi . . . (in so far that I got a chance . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' (indistinct) . . . dui jayga yabe . . . (will go in two places.)

'''Bengali Devotee:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Lalitā Prasāda:''' Han. (Yes.) . . . (indistinct) (break) (end)

761205 - Conversation - Hyderabad

2024-02-07T04:58:03Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"

[[Category:1976 - Conversations]]
[[Category:1976 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1976 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1976-12 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Conversations - India]]
[[Category:Conversations - India, Hyderabad]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Hyderabad]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Hindi Snippets]]
[[Category:1976 - New Audio - Released in November 2013]]
[[Category:Audio Files 60.01 to 90.00 Minutes]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Conversations - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Conversations - by Date|Conversations by Date]], [[:Category:1976 - Conversations|1976]]'''</div>
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<div class="center">
[[Vanipedia:761205 - Conversation - Srila Prabhupada Speaks a Nectar Drop in Hyderabad|'''  <big>Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this lecture'''</big>]]</div>


<div class="code">761205R1-HYDERABAD - December 05, 1976 - 88.34 Minutes</div>

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1976/761205R1-HYDERABAD_mono.mp3</mp3player>

'''Ānandamaya:''' . . . the greatest program in this life is birth, old age, disease and death. And ''Bhagavad-gītā'' gives the remedy for . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' This is good. If you want to stop this repetition of birth, death, old age and disease, then you must take the way of life spoken by . . . (break)

'''Ānandamaya:''' . . . seem to be . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Nobody is in healthy condition.

(devotee offers obeisances) (break)

'''Ānandamaya:''' Just like a medicine. We may understand it. For myself, I can tell. I study ''Bhagavad-gītā'' and I understand it, but I find so much difficulty to applicate it to the life of every day because . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is . . . everything is difficult, but . . . why "but"?

(pause) (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . a physician, to purchase the medicine, to drink the medicine, that is also difficult, but we have to do that.

'''Guest (1) (Indian man):''' ''Bhagavad-gītā'' gives the way to go back to Godhead.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Guest (1):''' ''Bhagavad-gītā'' gives the way to go back to Godhead. Otherwise one has to suffer continuously.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, this material world, birth after birth. One birth, suffering, then again die, again another birth, again suffering. But the people are kept in ignorance. They do not know how the soul is transmigrating. (aside) Aiye. Betiye. (Come and sit.) From . . . ask them to sit down properly. Why don't you . . . is there any seat, proper? So you . . . Ye to sub halka hai. (This is all right.) What was the topic? What was going on, the topic?

'''Ānandamaya:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda, this morning we went to this engagement. There was the inauguration of the Vivekananda Society Home, so we went there on ''saṅkīrtana'' because we were invited by them. And one ''svāmī'' spoke, and he said service to mankind was also service to God. And at the end he also said that Vivekananda used to say that for the housewife, that the cooking pot was becoming God, had become God, had become a God.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And people applauded. This is foolishness. They do not know how to act. Just like if you pour water on the tree, then it is accepted that you are pouring water on the tree. But that is not the process. The process is to pour water on the root of the tree. Practically we . . . you can make an experiment. Just like here is a tree. You don't pour water on the root but pour water on the leaves. Then it will dry in due course of time. It will not be effective. But if you pour water on the root, the water will go everywhere. So the whole thing is just like a tree. God is the origin of everything. He is the root. ''Aham ādir hi devānām'' ([[BG 10.2 (1972)|BG 10.2]]). ''Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ'' ([[BG 10.8 (1972)|BG 10.8]]). Therefore He is the root. So if you pour water in the root, then the water is distributed everywhere. But if you pour water on the leaves, on the twigs, on the fruits, it will take time and it will not be successful.

So one who is not in awareness of the laws of nature, they commit this mistake. We can say that pouring water on the leaves is also pouring water on the tree—by serving human being you can serve the Supreme Lord. But that is not the way. Another example is that if you supply food to the stomach, then the share is partaken by all the parts of the body. But if you supply food to the part of the body, it is not shared by other part of the body. They are opening hospital for men, human being, but what about the animals? They are also part and parcel of God. They are killing them. So they have no realization of God. God says, ''sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā'' ([[BG 14.4 (1972)|BG 14.4]]). Suppose I have got several sons. If you take care of my one son and you neglect others I will not be happy, naturally. But if you take care of all my sons, then I'll be happy. For a father there is no such distinction that, "My particular son should be taken care of and other should be neglected or they should be killed." That is not father's view. So if God is the father of all living entities, if you take simply care of the human being, then what of the others? There are so many fallacies in this argument, that by taking care of the human being you worship God. There are so many fallacies. Hmm? Is it not? So you have to put this argument that, "By serving human society is to serve God, that is not fact." That may be partially, it is not complete.

'''Ānandamaya:''' Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda, so he talked about all these things . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' I cannot hear.

'''Ānandamaya:''' He didn't talk once about Kṛṣṇa. He didn't mention once the name of Kṛṣṇa, and he didn't say anything about . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Kṛṣṇa is the root of everything. ''Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate'' ([[BG 10.8 (1972)|BG 10.8]]). So He is the root. So you pour water in the root. Just like we are Kṛṣṇa conscious. So because we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, does it mean that we are not taking care of the human being? That is automatically coming. But those who are taking care of the human society only, social work, political work, they do not know even what Kṛṣṇa. Missing. That is the difference. Because we are taking of Kṛṣṇa, we have come to the human society. We are teaching them Kṛṣṇa consciousness, spiritual knowledge. That is automatically. We are feeding them, giving them ''prasādam''. That is included. But those who are opening hospitals for human being, they are taking the poor animals to the slaughterhouse, maintaining big, big slaughterhouse. That means foolishness. Kṛṣṇa will not be happy that one son you take care by opening hospital and another son you go, you send him to the slaughterhouse. This is foolishness. Never. God will never be happy. The same example: if the father has got both children—you take care one of them and others you kill them—will the father be happy?

So that is not the way of making the supreme father, God, happy. That is not the way. That is foolish way. Rather, displeasing the father. That is not a very good philosophy. Why you should make distinction? He claims:

:''sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya''
:''sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ''
:''tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir''
:''ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā''
:([[BG 14.4 (1972)|BG 14.4]])

''Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ'' ([[BG 15.7 (1972)|BG 15.7]]): "Every living entity is My part and parcel. Every living entity is begotten by Me. I am the father." So how you can make discrimination from one son to another? That is foolishness. You cannot expect by pleasing one son the father will be happy. But if you bring something to the father and pay him, or some food, "Sir, it is for your sons," then he'll be pleased. He'll distribute the foodstuff to his sons. But if you take care one of the sons and don't take care of the other son, the father will never please. Very . . . that is not the way of pleasing the father. That is foolishness. You may say that, "I am taking care of the best son," but to a father, either the best son or the lowest son, the same. Father does not make any . . . "Because this is best son, he should be satisfied and the worst sons should be neglect." Father does not make. Father will like better that, "You take care of my worst son first." And besides that, to take care of the human society, it is also bogus. Nobody can take care. There are so many problems in the human society, how you can take care? But the real problem is—that is for everyone—''janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi''. Either he is animal, or human being, or demigod, or big man, or small man, or rich man, or poor man, a learned man, foolish man—these problems are there, ''janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi''. So if you take care of these problems, how to save them, all of them, from these four problems, that is real service. ''Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam'' ([[BG 13.8-12 (1972)|BG 13.9]]). Otherwise temporary—"I am hungry. You give me some relief"—but that relief is temporary. I'll become again hungry. And if I come to you twice, thrice, you'll be disgusted. Neither you can. There are so many hungry men. But if with a view to solve his all problems of life, ''janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi'', if you take care of him, that is the best service.

'''Ānandamaya:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda, also Lord Kṛṣṇa says in the ''Bhagavad-gītā'' at the end that "One who surrenders unto Me, he will be delivered from all material reactions and go to . . . (indistinct) . . ." But it is also said that some persons, they are more inclined to surrender than others.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. You should surrender, you should request others to surrender. That is service.

'''Ānandamaya:''' But, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is it because of their karma, past activity, that they . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Whatever it may be, one can immediately surrender if he likes. The background has nothing to do. Even the background is sinful, Kṛṣṇa says, ''ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi'' ([[BG 18.66 (1972)|BG 18.66]]): "I shall save you from reaction of sinful life." Then there is no consideration of their background. You simply surrender. Then it will be solved, everything.

'''Ānandamaya:''' But, Śrīla Prabhupāda, has anyone got the same ability to surrender? Because . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Everyone has got. If I say: "You surrender," you just . . . what is . . . if you disagree, that is another. Otherwise you can surrender immediately. Where is the difficulty?

'''Ānandamaya:''' So it's just by our personal whim that we can surrender.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Anyone can surrender immediately. There is no difficulty. But if he does not, then nobody can induce him. Otherwise, if he likes, he can surrender immediately. And He said, voluntary. Kṛṣṇa does not force. If He would have forced, then He would not say: "You surrender." No, it is your will. If you like, you surrender. If I say: "You do this," that is not force. If you like, you can do it. That is your interest. ''Yathecchasi tathā kuru'' ([[BG 18.63 (1972)|BG 18.63]]): "Whatever you like, you do that. But I give you the right instruction, that if you surrender, you'll be happy." That is the greatest service. If you teach people how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, that is the greatest service. That will solve his all problems. (aside) . . . (indistinct) . . . has . . . that's all. Bring water. If you don't surrender, then go on suffering. That's all. That is your business. You should surrender.

'''Guest (2) (Indian man):''' I have got some doubt.

'''Prabhupāda:''' What is that?

'''Guest (2):''' If we are all children of Lord Kṛṣṇa—all the living beings are a part of Kṛṣṇa—in that case childrens in thousands and hundreds who are killed every day . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is created by you, that you may become the sons of one father, but every one of you has got different tendency.

'''Guest (2):''' But I can't see how . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no, just try to understand that we are all sons of Kṛṣṇa.

That's nice. (aside) No, there is another one.

'''Devotee:''' Of brass?

'''Prabhupāda:''' It is silver. You go. All right. A father has got five sons. Some of them are very learned; some of them foolish. Why? Does the father like that "The some of my sons should be rascals, and others should be very nice"? Does the father like it? Then why he becomes? Hmm?

'''Guest (2):''' If one becomes . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Purva janma para janma. (Reincarnation, rebirth.) That we say. Consider. But these varieties are there, so how you can check it? Cause may be different. I have seen while I was in Allahabad one big barrister's sons. One became barrister; another became ''ekala''. You know ''ekala''? ''Ekala'' driver. So the father did not like that, "One of my sons should become ''ekala'', and other son should be like me, barrister," but I have seen. And there are many instances. Father does not want that, "My son should be vagabond, useless," but sometimes they become by their own activities. That independence everyone has got. So that is not father's creation. Your point was "Why God has created like that?" That is foolishness. God says that, "You surrender." But you do not surrender. That is your foolishness.

'''Guest (2):''' (indistinct) . . . must be punished.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh? Naturally. Suppose if there is some infectious disease, the doctor says: "Don't go there." And if you go there, you'll be infected. You'll suffer. How the doctor can protect you? Doctor's duty is to warn you not to go to that area, "It is now infected with smallpox." But in spite of doctor's instruction, if you go there and if you infect that disease and suffer, then it is your fault. When a man is hanged by the judgment of the court, do you think that the high-court judge is inimical to that person? He's giving judgment to other persons that, "This one must make one ''lakh'' of rupees from that person." And next judgment, "This man must be hanged." Does it mean the high-court judge is partial? He's simply giving judgment on the merit of the particular case. So there is no argument that, "Why God has created so many varieties?" God has not created; you have created. "Man is the architect of his own fortune." Fortune and misfortune you have created. So we have to suffer or so-called enjoy. There is no enjoyment here. It is simply suffering. But because you are under ''māyā'', you are thinking suffering as enjoying. Just like a hog is eating stool. Other man is becoming: "Very abominable! Oh, what nasty thing he is . . ." But he is enjoying. He is thinking, "I am enjoying the best food." I have seen in aeroplane. One Indian gentleman, he was eating the intestine of the hog. So it was horrible for me, but he was eating very nice.

So in this way the world is going on. "One man's food is another man's poison." So similarly, we are creating our next birth according to our desire. ''Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu'' ([[BG 13.22 (1972)|BG 13.22]]). According to the infection of the different modes of material nature, we are creating good or bad body next life. The laws of nature is unknown to the foolish society. They are thinking, "This life is everything. Misled, they do not know the aim of life. That is going on. ''Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ'' ([[SB 7.5.31|SB 7.5.31]]). One blind leader is leading other blind men. This is going on. And when we present the real solution, they say it is brainwash. Now, against our movement there is propaganda in USA, charging that "He has brainwashed them." (aside) You can come here. Aage badhiye. (Move forward.) "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." This is our position. When we speak all these things, they say it is brainwashing movement. Actually it is brainwashing movement because we are dissipating all kinds of misunderstanding, values of life. ''Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam''. It is not brainwashing; it is heart-washing. Our heart is stacked with so many dirty things, so we are trying to wash it. ''Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam'' ([[CC Antya 20.12|CC Antya 20.12]]). And that is our movement. We are trying to cleanse the heart so that he can understand himself. One can understand his real position and then do the needful, and life becomes successful.

Guest (3) (Indian man): Where is soul?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

''Jagad-guru'': He is asking where is the soul.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Can you see? So soul is within the heart. When the soul goes away, you cannot explain what happened. You say: "Heart failure." So why the heart failure? The nerves and the bones and the muscle and the blood, everything is there, and still, you say that, "It stopped. Heart failure." So just like machine is running, but somehow or other stopped, but you do not know what is the cause of stopping. The cause is that the heart, when it goes away, then the machine stops.

'''Guest (3):''' God is within the soul also.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. God is along with you. ''Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati'' ([[BG 18.61 (1972)|BG 18.61]]). He is there.

Guest (4) (Indian man): Swāmījī, in ''Bhagavad-gītā'' it is telling ''karma'' also and surrendering also. Now, how it is possible? In ''karma-kāṇḍa'' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Karma'', if you do . . . just like we are preaching so many people to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, but they will not do it. Do you think our this instruction that, "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa," is taken by everyone? Do you think? Suppose you are all here. We are preaching the same thing, that, "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." But these boys, they have surrendered, but you have not surrendered.

'''Guest (4):''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' First of all try to understand. It is . . . the free will is there. If you don't surrender, then, Kṛṣṇa says, ''niyataṁ kuru karma tvaṁ karma jyāyo hy akarmaṇaḥ'': "Instead of sitting idly, better you do your prescribed duty." So prescribed duty is ''cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ'' ([[BG 4.13 (1972)|BG 4.13]]). According to ''guṇa'' and ''karma'', there are four divisions. So if you are in the first-class division as ''brāhmaṇa'', you do the ''brāhmaṇa's'' work. If you are a ''kṣatriya'', you do the ''kṣatriya's'' . . . ''niyataṁ kuru karma''. What is you are destined, you do that nicely. Don't be idle. That is Kṛṣṇa's in . . . but if you are intelligent, then Kṛṣṇa says, ''sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam'' ([[BG 18.66 (1972)|BG 18.66]]). But you are foolish, then you be engaged in your prescribed duty. And if you are intelligent, then "You give up everything; simply surrender unto Me." That depends on you. If you are intelligent, you'll surrender; if you are not intelligent, be engaged in your ''karma''. Kṛṣṇa is giving all facilities. Now it is up to you to make your selection. But He says, ''niyataṁ kuru karma''. (aside) Find out this verse.

:''niyataṁ kuru karma tvaṁ''
:''karma jyāyo hy akarmaṇaḥ''
:''śarīra-yātrāpi ca te''
:''na prasiddhyed akarmaṇaḥ''
:([[BG 3.8 (1972)|BG 3.8]])

'''Devotee (3):''' Should I read the translation?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Devotee (3):''' "Perform your prescribed duties, for action is better than inaction."

'''Prabhupāda:''' But if you have no prescribed duties, then you are animal. Just like monkey. What is his duty? He is jumping simply and creating havoc. Monkey is very busy. Wherever he'll sit down, he'll "''gat'', ''gat'', ''gat'', ''gat''," like this. That's all. Very busy. But what is the meaning of his business? Simply creating disturbance Therefore it is said, ''niyataṁ kuru karma tvam'': "Act on your prescribed duties." Don't act like a monkey. That is better. What is that?

'''Devotee (3):''' "For action is better than inaction. A man cannot even maintain his physical body without work."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then? Purport?

'''Devotee (3):''' Purport: "There are many pseudo-meditators who misrepresent themselves as belonging to high parentage, and great professional men who falsely pose that they have sacrificed everything for the sake of advancement in spiritual life. Lord Kṛṣṇa did not want Arjuna to become a pretender, but that he perform his prescribed duties as set for ''kṣatriyas''. Arjuna was a householder and a military general, and therefore it was better for him to remain as such and perform his religious duties as prescribed for the householder ''kṣatriya''. Such activities gradually cleanse the heart . . ."

'''Prabhupāda:''' You are following? Go on.

'''Devotee (3):''' ". . . and free him from material contamination. So-called renunciation for the purpose of maintenance is never approved by the Lord, nor by any religious scripture. After all, one has to maintain one's body and soul together by some work. Work should not be given up capriciously, without purification of materialistic propensities. Anyone who is in the material world is certainly possessed of the impure propensity for lording it over material nature, or, in other words, for sense gratification. Such polluted propensities have to be cleared. Without doing so through prescribed duties, one should never attempt to become a so-called transcendentalist, renouncing work and living at the cost of others."

'''Prabhupāda:''' So ''Bhagavad-gītā'' is giving you gradual process to the highest point, and highest point is to surrender. That is the most confidential part of knowledge. ''Sarva-guhyatamam. Guhyād guhyataram''. Find out this verse, Eighteenth Chapter. He has given the instruction of ''karma-yoga'', ''jñāna'', everything, but the most confidential instruction is this.

'''Devotee (3):'''

:''sarva-guhyatamaṁ bhūyaḥ''
:''śṛṇu me paramaṁ vacaḥ''
:''iṣṭo 'si me dṛḍham iti''
:''tato vakṣyāmi te hitam''
:([[BG 18.64 (1972)|BG 18.64]])

Translation: "Because you are My very dear friend, I am speaking to you the most confidential part of knowledge. Hear this from Me, for it is for your benefit."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Is there any purport?

'''Devotee (3):''' "The Lord has given Arjuna confidential knowledge of the Supersoul within everyone's heart, and now He is giving the most confidential part of this knowledge: just surrender unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead. At the end of the Ninth Chapter He has said, 'Just always think of Me.' The same instruction is repeated here to stress the essence of the teachings of ''Bhagavad-gītā''. This essence is not understood by a common man, but by one who is actually very dear to Kṛṣṇa, a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa. This is the most important instruction in all Vedic literature. What Kṛṣṇa is saying in this connection is the most essential part of knowledge, and it should be carried out not only by Arjuna but by all living entities."

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Guhyatamam'', most confidential. This is not for all, but for the advanced person and who is in confidence of Kṛṣṇa, He says, ''iṣṭo 'si me'' . . .? What is that next? ''Iṣṭo 'si''?

'''Devotee (3):''' ''Iṣṭo 'si me dṛḍham iti''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Devotee (3):''' ''Iṣṭo 'si me dṛḍham iti tato vakṣyāmi''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Dṛḍham''?

'''Devotee (3):''' ''Dṛḍham''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No. What is the spelling?

'''Devotee (3):''' ''Dṛḍham''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no. The word, separate word? ''Iṣṭo 'si''?

'''Devotee (3):''' ''D-r-d-h-a-m''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Hitam''.

'''Devotee (3):''' ''Dṛḍham iti tato vakṣyāmi te hitam''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Te hitam''. So it is not for all. One who is in confidence of Kṛṣṇa, a pure devotee, for him, not for the ordinary man. Ordinary man—"You do your prescribed duty." But they have no prescribed duty even. The people of this age, they are so fallen, they have no prescribed duty. They are simply engaged like animals—eating, sleeping, sex and defense. That's all. Animal is engaged like that, eating, sleeping, sex, and defense. So we are being educated only like animals. We do not know the value of life, how nature is working, how we are changing our body. No education all over the world. Simply making plans how to eat, how to sleep, how to enjoy senses, how to defend, that's all. This is animal life. This is not prescribed duty. Prescribed duty is above this. From animal, one has to become ''brāhmaṇa'', ''kṣatriya'', ''vaiśya'', ''utmost śūdra'', like that. That is prescribed duty. And simply whole day working for eating, sleeping, mating, that is the business of the hog. Hog is also whole day working for eating, sleeping and sex and defense. Therefore ''śāstra'' says, ''nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye'' ([[SB 5.5.1|SB 5.5.1]]). You should not live the life of a hog, ''viḍ-bhujām. Viḍ-bhujām'' means the stool-eater. He is also working day and night. What is the business? "Where is stool?" That's all. And as soon as he's strong, then "Where is sex," without any discrimination. That is hog's life.

So human life is not meant for spoiling like hog's life. Therefore ''niyataṁ kuru karma tvam''. You should classify yourself amongst the four divisions, ''cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ'' ([[BG 4.13 (1972)|BG 4.13]]), and then your prescribed duties are there. If you want to become a ''brāhmaṇa'', then ''śamo damas titikṣā ārjavam'', ''jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam'' ([[BG 18.42 (1972)|BG 18.42]]). If you want to be ''kṣatriya, tejaḥ'' . . . what is that? ''Tejaḥ śauryaṁ yujyaṁ yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam īśvara-bhāvaś ca kṣātraṁ karma svabhāva-jam''. If you want to be a ''vaiśya'', ''kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam'' ([[BG 18.44 (1972)|BG 18.44]]). And if you want to remain a ''śūdra'', ''paricaryātmakaṁ karma śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam''. And that is prescribed duty. You classify yourself—either as a ''brāhmaṇa'' or as a ''kṣatriya'' or a ''vaiśya''—by quality, not by caste or by whims, no. Actually by qualification. Then you engage yourself in that duty. That is ''niyataṁ karma tvam''. Otherwise, jumping like monkeys, that is not ''karma''. That is monkey's dance. It has no value. Wasting time. You should not waste time a single moment. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, ''niyataṁ kuru karma tvam''. So make that. Don't waste your time.

(pause)

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's all right. She is child. What can be done? You cannot . . .

'''Guest (2):''' Swāmījī, what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

'''Prabhupāda:''' What Kṛṣṇa says, you hear and do. Just like you are now acting, family conscious or country conscious or society conscious. The dog is also working as dog conscious. Monkey is working, monkey conscious. He is thinking, "I am monkey." You are thinking you are Indian. He is thinking he is American. He is thinking as . . . so on, so on, different consciousness. But when you act Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is your real dharma. Now we are working under different consciousness; therefore varieties. And when you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it is oneness, perfection, to act according to the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. ''Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam'' ([[CC Madhya 19.167|CC Madhya 19.167]]). What Kṛṣṇa says, you act accordingly. You are acting . . . the Communists, they are acting Lenin consciousness. Is it not? Their god is Lenin. I have been in Moscow. Everywhere Lenin's picture, Lenin's book, and they are worshiping Lenin's tomb. That is Lenin consciousness. So similarly, you become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Guest (5) (Indian man): Those who have become Kṛṣṇa conscious, they will see Kṛṣṇa?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, otherwise where is consciousness, if you do not think of Kṛṣṇa? Just like these boys, they are always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, either chanting or reading book or selling book or writing book, preaching Kṛṣṇa, twenty-four hours, taking Kṛṣṇa's ''prasādam'', taking rest for working in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, everything in Kṛṣṇa, chanting always Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They have no other business.

Guest (6) (Indian man): What is the meaning of good citizen? Good citizen?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is spiritual vision. Kṛṣṇa is the supreme spirit, and if you remain Kṛṣṇa conscious, then spiritual vision. That is spiritual.

'''Guest (6):''' Swāmījī, you have seen Kṛṣṇa?

'''Prabhupāda:''' What do you think? We are all rascals, blindly following? Do you think like that? Then why I have not seen? Why do you ask this? If we are acting for Kṛṣṇa, do you mean to say that we are following blindly? Do you think like that? What is your opinion? If we have not seen Kṛṣṇa, then how we are acting for Kṛṣṇa? Hmm? What is your idea? We are all fools, that without seeing the master we are acting? Do you think like that? Why don't you answer? This is foolish question. How one can serve a master without seeing the master? Is it a fact that without seeing the master one is serving? (aside) Find out this verse, ''sarvatra yo māṁ paśyati'', ''mayi ca sarvaṁ paśyati'', like that.

'''Devotee (3):''' ''Sarvatra''?

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Yo māṁ paśyati''. Or ''yo māṁ paśyati sarvatra''. Find out. ''Yo māṁ paśyati sarvatra''.

'''Devotee (3):''' (devotees discuss finding verse)

:''yo māṁ paśyati sarvatra''
:''sarvaṁ ca mayi paśyati''
:''tasyāhaṁ na praṇaśyāmi''
:''sa ca me na praṇaśyati''
:([[BG 6.30 (1972)|BG 6.30]])

"For one who sees Me everywhere and sees everything in Me, I am never lost, nor is he ever lost to Me."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Is there a purport?

'''Devotee (3):''' "A person in Kṛṣṇa consciousness certainly sees Lord Kṛṣṇa everywhere, and he sees everything in Kṛṣṇa. Such a person may appear to see all separate manifestations of the material nature, but in each and every instance he is conscious of Kṛṣṇa, knowing that everything is the manifestation of Kṛṣṇa's energy. Nothing can exist without Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is the Lord of everything—this is the basic principle of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the development of love of Kṛṣṇa—a position transcendental even to material liberation. It is the stage beyond self-realization at which the devotee becomes one with Kṛṣṇa in the sense that Kṛṣṇa becomes everything for the devotee, and the devotee becomes full in loving Kṛṣṇa. An intimate relationship between the Lord and the devotee then exists. In that stage, the living entity attains his immortality. Nor is the Personality of Godhead ever out of the sight of the devotee. To merge in Kṛṣṇa is spiritual annihilation. A devotee takes no such risk. It is stated in the ''Brahma-saṁhitā'', ''premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti'' (BS 5.38)."

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti''. He sees every moment.

'''Devotee (3):''' "''Yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa-svarūpam'' . . ."

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi''.

'''Devotee (3):''' " 'I worship the primeval Lord Govinda, who is always seen by the devotee whose eyes are anointed with the pulp of love. He is seen in His eternal form of Śyāmasundara situated within the heart of the devotee.' At this stage Lord Kṛṣṇa never disappears from the sight of the devotee, nor does the devotee ever lose sight of the Lord. In the case of a ''yogī'' who sees the Lord as Paramātmā within the heart, the same applies. Such a ''yogī'' turns into a pure devotee and cannot bear to live for a moment without seeing the Lord within himself."

'''Prabhupāda:''' You are seeing also Kṛṣṇa, but because you have no love, therefore you cannot appreciate how we are seeing. If you love some person you keep his photograph on the breast. Is it not? So you are seeing Kṛṣṇa in the temple, but because you have no love you think that, "I am not seeing Him." That is the defect. They are seeing Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise why they have sacrificed everything for worshiping Kṛṣṇa, for dressing Kṛṣṇa, for feeding Kṛṣṇa? They are seeing Kṛṣṇa. They are not wasting their time. But you have no love for Kṛṣṇa. You're thinking that "They have not seen Kṛṣṇa. They are worshiping an idol." That is the difference. One who loves somebody, he keeps his picture on his chest. He does not—he throws it, same picture. It is question of love. Therefore it is said, ''premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu'' (BS 5.38). One who has developed that love and ''bhakti'', he can see Kṛṣṇa at every moment. Otherwise it is not possible. And because you cannot see, you ask them also, "Can you see?" But the seeing process is different. We do not know the process; therefore we are thinking that Kṛṣṇa cannot be seen. And one who knows the process, he sees every moment. Is it clear? You learn the process, you will see Kṛṣṇa every moment. Therefore this word is used, ''premāñjana-cchurita''. By the eye ointment of love you have to smear your eyes; then you'll be able to see Kṛṣṇa. ''Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ'' ([[BG 7.25 (1972)|BG 7.25]]). Find out this verse. ''Yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ.'' When one's eyes is covered by the ''yoga-māyā'' he cannot see, see Kṛṣṇa.

'''Devotee (3):'''

:''nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya''
:''yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ''
:''mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti''
:''loko mām ajam avyayam''
:([[BG 7.25 (1972)|BG 7.25]])

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Mūḍho 'yaṁ na abhijānāti'': "Those who are rascals, they cannot see." ''Mūḍho 'yaṁ na abhijānāti''. So one has to become interested how to see Kṛṣṇa.

Guest (7) (Indian man): Satya Sai Baba says . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Satya Sai Baba is not authority.

'''Guest (7):''' No, no, I don't accept.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then why you quote him? We are not prepared to hear his words.

'''Guest (7):''' Kindly clear up my doubt.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No . . . that is another thing. That is another thing.

'''Guest (7):''' All the miracles only just to increase confidence and all this . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Why . . .? Magic is magic. That is another thing. That is not knowledge.

'''Guest (7):''' Suppose if I want to talk here Kṛṣṇa consciousness among the masses . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, we have to push on Kṛṣṇa consciousness according to the direction of Kṛṣṇa, not by the ways and means by Sai Baba. That is foolishness.

'''Guest (7):''' Can I attain such magical powers?

'''Prabhupāda:''' So why? What is the use? We are not using any magical powers.

'''Guest (7):''' Just to convince the people.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Why this foolishness? We never . . . ask my disciples. I have never shown any magic. Why?

'''Bhāgavata:''' That is a cheap business.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is cheating business. That is not required. It is meant for the foolish men.

'''Guest (7):''' (indistinct) . . . Suri Bhagavantam, he was convinced by him just because of his magical powers.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Who?

'''Guest (7):''' Suri Bhagavantam is a scientist. He was convinced by him just because of his magical powers. Otherwise he could not influence me. One of my friends who was sitting there, he told me, "Satya Sai Baba, he won't come this side," he said. I said: "I'll make him to come this side."

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, these are words. He has been challenged also by a group of educated men. So there are some fools, rascals. That is all . . .

'''Guest (7):''' I have got belief in God, and so Narendra, my friend, was sitting by my side. "No, if I sit there only, he will go that way. I want to see him this side."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Do you accept Sai Baba as God?

'''Guest (7):''' No, no, not at all.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then why do you speak all this? That's . . .

'''Guest (7):''' Not even greater than me. I don't think like that. He is also a human being like me.

'''Guest (6):''' In the ''Bhāgavatam'' it is said that (indistinct Sanskrit) . . . (indistinct)

'''Guest (7):''' And he could not do his ''siddhi'' before . . . (indistinct) . . . if it is real ''siddhi'' he could have showed all his powers even before . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Go to the standard of knowledge. ''Bhagavad-gītā'' is accepted by the ''ācāryas''—Madhvācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Lord Caitanya. So take that standard. Why do you go to the rascals and fools? Unless you are rascal and fool, you cannot go to the rascal and fool. Why? You take. If you want to know God, take the standard knowledge which is accepted by the . . . ''ācāryopāsanam''. You take the knowledge through the ''ācāryas''. Why from a rascal? That is not knowledge. Kṛṣṇa recommends how to take the knowledge. Eh? ''Amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam ācāryopāsanam'' ([[BG 13.8-12 (1972)|BG 13.8]]). Worship the ''ācārya''. ''Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa ''guru''m eva abhigacchet'' (MU 1.2.12). (aside) Just read this. What is that?

'''Devotee (3):''' ''Amānitvam adambhitvam'' . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' This is the process of knowledge. ''Amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam ācāryopāsanam. Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyāt'' ([[SB 11.17.27|SB 11.17.27]]). If you go to ''ācārya'', then you'll know the knowledge. What is this, go to a magician, a rascal? Magician is authority? There are so many magicians. So one should go for God to a magician? ''Ācāryopāsanam''. Go to ''ācārya''. That is recommended. Why should you go to the magician? That is your fault. You go to the wrong person, and you are cheated because you want to be cheated. You want to see magic, you don't want to see God. God is personally speaking, accepted God, not that by magical . . . and who can show greater magic than Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa, when He was seven years old, He lifted the Govardhana Hill. Can this rascal do that? Who can be greater magician than Kṛṣṇa? So we shall go to the greatest magician. Why shall I go to a teeny magician? That is our misfortune. If you want to see magic, see the magic, what Kṛṣṇa has done. This is our misfortune, that we go to a wrong person and misled. If you want magician, see Kṛṣṇa, how great magician He is. He married sixteen thousand wives. Is there any instance in the history of the world that one has sixteen thousand wives and maintaining each of them? And He expanded Himself in sixteen thousand husbands. Not that one wife is waiting: "When sixteen thousand . . . after sixteen thousand nights, He would come here." No. He is present everywhere. That is magic. Nārada was surprised, that "How Kṛṣṇa is maintaining sixteen thousand wives?" He saw in each and every home sixteen thousand establishment, and Kṛṣṇa is present everywhere.

So this is magic. Why don't you see Kṛṣṇa's magic? Why you are so much allured by a teeny magician? That is your misfortune. Poor heart, poor magic. See the real magic. If you want to see magic, see the Kṛṣṇa's magic. Kṛṣṇa, when He was three months old, the Pūtanā came to kill the child by poisoning, but she was killed. So in this way, from the very beginning of Kṛṣṇa's appearance, He's killing so many demons. So why don't you see this magic? If you want to see magic, see Kṛṣṇa's magic. Why the poor magic? Kṛṣṇa says, ''sarva-loka-maheśvaram'' ([[BG 5.29 (1972)|BG 5.29]]): "I am the proprietor of all the ''lokas''." And each ''loka'' . . . suppose this ''loka'', earthly planet. There are hundreds of gold mines. Why you are captivated with the ''chaṭāka'' gold? Why don't you be captivated by the person who has millions of gold mines by His wish? So we are poor, therefore we are captivated by poor magician. If we are intelligent, then we should be captivated by Kṛṣṇa's magic. That is intelligence. But we are poor; we are captivated by poor magic. That's all. Don't be poor. ''Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam'' ([[BG 7.25 (1972)|BG 7.25]]). Don't remain ''mūḍhas''. Try to understand Kṛṣṇa. Then your life will be successful. That is Kṛṣṇa knowledge. ''Janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ'' ([[BG 4.9 (1972)|BG 4.9]]). Anyone who understands Kṛṣṇa's activities, then he becomes liberated. ''Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti''. Why don't you use your valuable time for understand Kṛṣṇa? Why you are captured by the poor rascal magicians? That means we are unfortunate. If we become captivated by teeny magician, that means we are unfortunate. Be captivated by the magic Kṛṣṇa has shown. That is the point.

Guest (8) (Indian man): Your Divine Grace, there is ''Mukunda-mālā-stotra'' by Kulaśekhara Mahārāja. Are there any translations of that in the English and other languages?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

Guest (8) (Indian man): There are . . . (indistinct) . . . ''ślokas'' with you . . . (indistinct) . . . Kṛṣṇa ''mantra''?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. I think we have translated Kulaśekhara . . . it is not published, but I have translated.

'''Jagadīśa:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda, some of these devotees are required to . . . with your permission, I'd like to have some of the devotees come out for ''kīrtana'' and . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' So? You can go to the ''ārati'', ''kīrtana''. Go.

'''Jagadīśa:''' Just take whatever you need.

'''Prabhupāda:''' You also go. (break)

'''Devotee:''' . . . the argument that after saying: "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa" and becoming free from the miseries of material life we remain still going home, still a devotee who comes through the heat, still a devotee who is dying just like an ordinary man.

'''Prabhupāda:''' It is an argument like this, that you have gone to a physician for curing your disease; why you are not cured? This is nonsense question. It will take some time to be cured. Do you mean to say as soon as you go to the physician, you become cured? Do you think? Why don't you answer like that? A foolish man will say like that, that "You have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why you are now suffering?" Yes, suffering will be . . . ''kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati'' ([[BG 9.31 (1972)|BG 9.31]]). So the assurance is there. You take the treatment. Why do you expect, immediately you go to the physician? A father gets the daughter married, expecting a child. Does it mean as soon as she's married, immediately child? And if a rascal says: "Oh, she is married, and there is no child?" Because he's a rascal. You must wait. Now she is married, it is sure she'll have child. That's a fact. But if the rascal wants, "Now my daughter is married. There is no child?" What is this nonsense? This question is like that, that "You have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why you are suffering?" You cannot answer this?

'''Devotee:''' Yes. Also you give the example of the cat catching up the mouse and the cat . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is another thing. But first thing is that why do you want immediately effect? That is foolishness. The effect will be there. Therefore it is called ''dhairya''. ''Utsāhād dhairyāt''. ''Dhairya'' means patience. You act, God acting with patience. The result will be ''niścaya''. The result will be there. These things are required. ''Utsāhād dhairyāt niścayāt tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt'', ''sato vṛtteḥ sādhu-saṅge ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati''. So why you should have a foolish person—"Now I come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I have become immediately everything. Give up everything"? Why do you think like this? The same example: the girl is married, now it is sure that she'll have child. Wait. ''Niścaya''. When there is husband and wife there will be child. There is no doubt about it, but wait. Why do you expect immediately child on the day of marriage? This is foolishness.

So you should answer these rascals like that. "You cannot expect immediately. But we are on the path. We have just entered." One enters into the school. Does it mean in one year or six months he becomes M.A.? He has to wait. But he has entered the school; there is expectation of his passing M.A. examination. But one who has not entered school, loitering in the street, he has no . . . he's hopeless. But this man has hope. Wait. The same example: if one girl is not married, then where is the question of child? Everything has to wait. Therefore it is said, ''utsāhād dhairyāt''. One should have proper enthusiasm and patience. That is wanted. How one foolishly expects the result immediately? You sow the seed; you water it; it grows; then it becomes big tree; then pick the fruit; then eat. Immediately you cannot expect, immediately you have got. As soon as you get the seed, you have got the thing, undoubtedly. But you must give time the seed to fructify. That required.

'''Guest (2):''' What exists between the planet Gokula and the . . . (indistinct) . . . Kṛṣṇa?

'''Prabhupāda:''' There is a planet who is full of cows, Gokula. That's it. ''Surabhīr abhipālayantam. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam'' (BS 5.29). Kṛṣṇa is engaged there in tending cows, surabhi cows. That is Gokula. That planet is full of cows.

'''Guest (2):''' What I mean to say is what exists between any two abodes, plenary expansions of Śrī Kṛṣṇa?

'''Prabhupāda:''' What exists?

'''Guest (2):''' In the two abodes of the plenary expansion of Kṛṣṇa. What exists?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Plenary? Yes, Kṛṣṇa is expanding millions and millions forms. ''Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca'' (BS 5.33). That is Kṛṣṇa. ''Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati'' ([[BG 18.61 (1972)|BG 18.61]]). He is expanded, and He's living in your heart, my heart, ant's heart, everyone's heart. These are expansions, Paramātmā.

Guest (9) (Indian man): Sir, his point is what exists between the planets?

'''Guest (2):''' This intervening medium.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So you do not know the outer space? Outer space? The space is there. Just this planet, sun planet, there is space between. You do not know this? Eh?

'''Guest (2):''' Do you mean to say there is no space between His planets?

'''Prabhupāda:''' I mean to say . . . now you mean to say also. You do not know there is space difference between one planet to another?

'''Guest (2):''' Unless it is bounded by space.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So whatever it may be, there is difference. Just like you are existing, I am existing. There is space. So what is the difficulty?

'''Guest (2):''' No, but actually it is beyond space and time. Transcendental.

'''Guest (9):''' Spiritual planets, he means to say.

'''Guest (2):''' They are beyond space.

'''Guest (4):''' They are beyond time and space.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. So what does he mean? What does he mean?

Guest (10): What is your point?

'''Prabhupāda:''' The point is that . . . you can explain in this way, that ''goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ'' (BS 5.37). Kṛṣṇa is in the Goloka planet, which is far, far away from our planet, but still He is everywhere. That is the difference. That you cannot imagine. In our material knowledge you cannot imagine that. But that is the fact. Kṛṣṇa says, ''patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati'', ''tad aham aśnāmi'' ([[BG 9.26 (1972)|BG 9.26]]): "Anyone offering Me in devotion ''patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam'', I eat." Now, Kṛṣṇa is living far, far away in the Goloka planet. How He can eat? That is your imagining. But Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, I do." That is Kṛṣṇa. Although He is far, far away, He is within your heart. That you cannot imagine, how it is possible. That is your material knowledge. But you have to accept from the statement of ''śāstra'' that although He is far, far away—within your heart. ''Aṇḍāntara-stha-para'' . . . He is within the atom also. So that you cannot imagine. That requires a different knowledge, Vedic knowledge. The material knowledge will not help you, but you cannot imagine. You have to accept Vedic knowledge. What is stated in the ''Vedas'', that you have to accept. That's all. Otherwise there is no possibility. Therefore to understand Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's activities, you have to learn from Kṛṣṇa. That is ''Bhagavad-gītā''. You cannot manufacture your knowledge. That is not . . . because you are defective—your senses are imperfect—so whatever knowledge you get through your senses, that is all imperfect. You cannot get perfect knowledge by your imperfect senses. That is not possible. Therefore the Vedic injunction is ''tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet'' (MU 1.2.12). In order to learn that transcendental science you have to approach a ''guru'' who knows it.

:''tad viddhi praṇipātena''
:''paripraśnena sevayā''
:''upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ''
:''jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ''
:([[BG 4.34 (1972)|BG 4.34]])

This is a different phase of knowledge. By your material calculation it will be difficult. The same thing, Kṛṣṇa says, ''aśnāmi'': "I eat." So Kṛṣṇa is far, far away. How does He eat?

'''Guest (2):''' It is said there that holy planets exist the . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Who says? Who says? Who is the sayer? An imperfect person, that's all.

'''Guest (2):''' No, it is in the ''Bhāgavatam''. That's what I am saying.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, what is that?

'''Guest (2):''' That holy planets exist between the lotus stem that's sprouting from navel of Kṛṣṇa. But there are many planets, millions of planets . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, yes. That is all explained there. ''Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ'' (BS 5.48). ''Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya''. The Mahā-Viṣṇu is breathing, and with the breathing innumerable planets are coming, ''brahmāṇḍas'' are coming out. ''Yasya eka niśvasita-kālam atha avalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ. Jagad-aṇḍa'' means universe, and ''jagad-aṇḍa-nāthaḥ'' means Brahmā. Millions of Brahmās living within the breathing period of Mahā-Viṣṇu. So we have to accept this Vedic knowledge. You cannot compare with your limited knowledge. That is not . . .

'''Guest (4):''' His argument is that everything is bound by space.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, space is there.

'''Guest (4):''' No, it's in the pits of the . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Space. Space grows, Brahman. ''Bṛhatvād bṛhannatvāt''. Brahman means the greatest. The space is considered to be the greatest. So it is not only greatest but it is expanding more and more. It is becoming greater and greater. Just like some children, they made some foam, soap. It becomes bigger, bigger, bigger. It is like that. It comes from the breathing period, but as soon as come out it becomes bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger. That is bṛhatvād bṛhannatvāt: Brahman, the greatest. A small seed of banyan tree, very small, you cannot . . . it becomes bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger, and so big tree with the leaves. You see daily how it is coming. Can you make such seed, you scientist? Can you make? Then? Why do you compare your poor knowledge with Kṛṣṇa's knowledge? That is your poor fund of knowledge. You are thinking that, "Kṛṣṇa may be like me." You can just compare the small banyan tree seed, just like a mustard seed, and it contains such a big tree; not only big tree, millions of seeds also, containing another millions of big trees. Can you make such seed? Hmm? You scientists, can you make? You tell me. Can you prepare that seed? Then what you are scientist? See Kṛṣṇa's science. Don't compare yourself with Kṛṣṇa's science even.

'''Guest (2):''' No, one thing, if you say Goloka is infinite, we should be existing within Gokula. How is it that we are without Gokula?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, we are within Kṛṣṇa—therefore you are within Gokula.

'''Guest (2):''' Kṛṣṇa is within us.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. And Kṛṣṇa is without. That is Kṛṣṇa, ''antar bahiḥ''. ''Antar bahiḥ''. Kuntī says in her prayers that "Kṛṣṇa, You are ''antar bahiḥ''. Still, people cannot understand. You are . . . without, You are existing, and within, You are . . . still, they are so rascal, they cannot understand." ''Antar bahiḥ''. Kṛṣṇa is without, Kṛṣṇa is within, but they cannot see. That is their misfortune. ''Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham'' (BS 5.35). Kṛṣṇa is within the ''paramāṇu'', atom. Can you find out Kṛṣṇa? He says, ''īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd'' . . . ([[BG 18.61 (1972)|BG 18.61]]). He is within your heart. Can you find out? Then where is your science? It is already indicated that He is here. Find out. How you can find out? The dimension of the soul is given, one ten-thousandth part of the upper portion of the hair. The tip of the hair, you divide into ten thousand parts, and that one part is the dimension of the soul. How can you find out? ''Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca jīvo bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ'' ([[CC Madhya 19.140|CC Madhya 19.140]]).

Everything is written there. Now you find out the measurement. You cannot find out measurement of the tip of the hair. And you have to divide into ten thousand parts. Then the measurement of the soul will come. So how can you do it? But they are described in the ''śāstra''. So go and see ''ārati''. (end)

770706 - Conversation - Vrndavana

2024-02-07T04:58:00Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"

[[Category:1977 - Conversations]]
[[Category:1977 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1977 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1977-07 - Conversations and Letters]]
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[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Bengali Snippets]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Hindi Snippets]]
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[[Category:Audio Files 90.01 Minutes or More]]
[[Category:1977 - New Audio - Released in July 2012]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Conversations - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Conversations - by Date|Conversations by Date]], [[:Category:1977 - Conversations|1977]]'''</div>
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<div class="code">770706R1-VRNDAVAN - July 06, 1977 - 133:52 Minutes</div>

(Conversation with Vrindavan De)

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1977/770706R1-VRNDAVAN.mp3</mp3player>

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . but still, I have given you chance. So you want simply . . . just like a widow. We . . . but we want that you may not be disturbed. Go ahead. Do business and have big building. Everyone's constructing big, big building, Marwaris. Why you cannot do? You have been given all chance. ''Yogināṁ puruṣam upaiti lakṣmīm''. Unless one is dedicated, a ''yogī'', very endeavoring . . . so we have showed a yogī endeavoring. Seventy years old, I was here in Vṛndāvana, and I came, for ten years I worked. Now see. All over the world I have got hundreds of buildings like this. I am the same man. At least one hundred temples we have, only by working ten years. So there must be capacity, there must be endeavor, there must be good fortune. Then everything will be . . . it is not that you simply desire and it will drop from the sky. That is not possible. Hmm? Arjuna fought the Battle of Kurukṣetra. Kṛṣṇa never advised him, "No, I am your friend. I shall do everything. You sit down and sleep." "You have to fight!" And Kṛṣṇa is merciful. He gives him . . . the two things required: ''utsāhān dhairyāt niścayāt tat-tat-karma-pravart'' . . . (Upadeśāmṛta 3). If you have no capacity, you cannot expect to become very rich or learned, or very . . . that is not possible. It is not your capacity. Just like within this land there is gold, but you have to dig it. That is mine. And if you smell, "Ah, there is gold here," will you get gold? You are fortunate. You have got a place. Here is gold. But you have to dig it. You have to work. "No, I shall smell, and gold will come." That is not . . . so don't be worried. You'll be allowed to stay here. But I cannot transfer the property to your mother's name. Then your brother will spoil. And otherwise you are . . . I am not going to lease them.

'''Vrindavan De:''' No, Eirokom korte paren. (You can do like this.) In mother's absence.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

'''Vrindavan De:''' In mother's absence . . . (indistinct Bengali)

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, mother absence, that is . . . father . . . you . . . not only your mother; you can live here.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes. The letter that you dictated says that for the lifetime . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Lifetime. You can live, every one of you. So long you live, you can live.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' It says: "I beg to assure you, that during lifetime . . ."

'''Vrindavan De:''' Na onno jaigai jawar kono sujog o nei r proshno uthena. (No, there is neither an opportunity nor any question to go anywhere.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sujog ache. (There is opportunity.) You are doing business. Seitie to. (That is what I am saying.) Why you should remain in that flat with two, three rooms? That ambition is not there. That endeavor is not there . . . (indistinct Bengali)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Prabhupāda started with forty rupees.

'''Prabhupāda:''' I went to . . . you know. So in what way I went? With a tin box and some literature. And how I have come back? You rascal, you have no eyes to see. You have seen how I went and how I came back. This is practical. I worked for this. I labored for it. It all depends on one's capacity. Otherwise immediately I'll give you charge. You cannot do here anything. So you'll get this letter. That's assurance.

'''Vrindavan De:''' Songe kore niye jete parbo? (Would I be able to carry it?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ha. (Yes.) Keep it as document. That's all. I'll stamp it. All right, I shall meet again with you. Give him that.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Prabhupāda takes his massage now. (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' I have heard that still he is keeping, "I am devotee of Kṛṣṇa," still, in this fallen condition. How . . . (indistinct) . . . take this. (break) Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice. It is great ocean of such glory. ''Tvad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ'' ([[SB 7.9.43|SB 7.9.43]]).

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' It says: "Now it is again possible for us to think, to act. Our senses have regained their consciousness, enabling us to expand the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement by selling more . . ." (break) He says: "We pray that your health may continue for years to come so you may conquer the whole world by your pure devotion, and you may continue to bless us more and more so that we may be instrumental in this work. I am your puppet. You are controlling the strings. Make me dance as you like. I am simply awaiting the tug of your lotus-like hands upon my strings. I would like to make a report of the activities here. Eastern Europe . . ." (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Where I landed in your country there is a storehouse of lobster. They have become so rotten that some of them are coming like pus.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Pus is coming out?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Not pus, but the lobster has become so spoiled that it had become like pus, and they're eating that.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' They consider that a delicacy.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Just see. And for cow, they must be killed. They are taking delicacy, pus. (laughs) There's no danger.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Mad civilization. It is a mad society. They eat anything.

'''Prabhupāda:''' One gentleman was taking the lobster, some preparation, liquid.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' You were observing this on your arrival in Boston harbor?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yeah, that's where the lobsters are kept, near the harbor. Nowadays the fashion is that you go to a seafood restaurant, and they keep the lobster . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' The lobsters, I do not know. They take it from Indian foods. It is from Cochin. Cochin, South India. I do not know . . . huge quantity of lobsters are there, and they are exported to America.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Oh, they also have them in America, Prabhupāda. There's a lot of them in the whole eastern seaboard.

'''Prabhupāda:''' But in India, they take fresh, lobster.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' They do that in America sometimes in the so-called high-class restaurants. You choose your lobster, and then you sit down and they boil it alive.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Fresh.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes. They put them in live in the boiling water. The people who do that, they have to become a lobster and have the same fate? (laughs) I think we'd better distribute a lot of your books to inform these people.

'''Prabhupāda:''' In India they make lobster and loki.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' And loki?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Oh. They mix the two.

'''Prabhupāda:''' It becomes a very palatable delicacy. ''Lau Chingri''.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Bengalis are very fond?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Still, there is nothing so palatable as nice ''prasādam''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Kṛṣṇa baṛo doyāmoy''. From milk you can make. From ''ḍāl''. ''Urad ḍāl''.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Grains.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Jackfruit.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Vegetables.

'''Prabhupāda:''' This banana. Then banana fruit . . . banana, what is called? Flour.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Banana flour.

'''Prabhupāda:''' If it is made properly, you can taste lobster.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' I noticed that some of these different things . . . just like jackfruit.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. Jackfruit, yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Similarly, if it's cooked in a particular way . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Jackfruit is also called "vegetable meat."

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' "Vegetable meat."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Lajpata. Or a vegetable mutton. During my daughter's marriage, the hired cook, they made from this flour of banana, cutlet. Nobody could understand that it is vegetable.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' You were present at that time?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no, I did not allow to cook fish, so the guests were given that vegetable cutlet. And they could not understand.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' They were satisfied.

'''Prabhupāda:''' They said: "We could not understand that it is vegetable."

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' They must have been laughing.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Later on, after eating.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Some of them were fish-eaters.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Fish-eaters? Ninety-nine.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes. Harikeśa's report was very encouraging.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Good.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' All over the world the reports are all encouraging.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is Kṛṣṇa's grace. (long pause)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' (indistinct aside) I think we should wait another day for that Lasix tablets.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Until you're over your cold, it's better not to take anything strong. That Lasix is like a ''brahmāstra''. It's like an ultimate weapon. It should only be used as a last resort.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Atomic bomb.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yeah. But not . . . unlike a ''brahmāstra'', it cannot be withdrawn. Once it's taken, it has to act. We've been studying the course of the sun daily now. We're reading that chapter. And Bhakti-prema Swami . . . there's a library in Vṛndāvana. All the books . . . perhaps you know. It's over the Post Office in Loi Bazaar.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. Hmm.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' All the books from Rādhā-Dāmodara temple, those original texts, they're all there. So he's going to consult your Guru Mahārāja's book on . . . the astronomy book? What is the name of that book?

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Sūrya-siddhānta''.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' We are going to consult some other texts to get the full picture.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And what is from ''Bhāgavata''? The sun movement?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' It's just like there's a couple of things that we want to get very clear. Like it's described that one of the axles . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Uttarāyaṇa'', ''dakṣiṇāyana''. This Sumeru Mountain . . . so six months northern side, six months southern side.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes. Some things are quite clear. Then there's a description, though, that there's an axle, it's described, a tie made of wind going from the chariot to Dhruvaloka. So things like that we want to get a . . . further information on. Just so that it can be somehow demonstrated. Our . . . to understand these things for the purpose of making an exhibit requires a very clear picture. So that's the only reason we're looking to other books. But only bona fide books. The ''ācāryas'' commentaries, like that. And then it has to agree with the ''Bhāgavatam''. If in any way there's a discrepancy, we choose the ''Bhāgavatam'' as the authority.

'''Prabhupāda:''' On the whole, the sun is not fixed up.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' No, not at all. It's moving. As a matter of fact, it describes sometimes it moves in one way with Meru at its right side, and then sometimes it moves the other way with Meru at its left side.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is ''dakṣiṇāyana-mārga'', ''dakṣiṇāyana'', ''uttarāyaṇa''.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' It's very much moving, and at very high speed.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. I calculated sixteen thousand miles per second, so far I remember.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes. I think that's right.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And it is Sūryaloka. It has population.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' All of the personalities there have very dazzling bodies.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Fiery body.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' With the help of this planetarium, people will actually be able to go to the moon for the first time, at least by their minds. There was such a hoax that I heard they were even selling tickets to go to the moon.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. (pause)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' If you're feeling tired, maybe you'd like to take a little rest, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's still early now.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. I have been taking rest in . . . (break)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' They are all rascals and they're all crazy.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Who?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' The ''karmīs''. They don't know what is what. They don't know what is good for them. If they have their choice, they won't immediately talk with a devotee. But we are like the doctors. We don't consider what the patient says. Somehow we have to administer the medicine because we know it will be good for them. There's a letter that just came from Satsvarūpa.

'''Prabhupāda:''' (aside) Have my keys . . .

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' And . . . should I bring it? Actually I was going to read it to you later when you asked for some news. He says: "Dear Śrīla Prabhupāda, please accept my humble obeisances at your lotus feet." (break) He says: "In addition to my duties, everything is going nicely." (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' (coughs) These two ''ślokas'' are guide in this connection, in ''Bhāgavata''.

:''tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo''
:''yasmin prati-ślokam abaddhavaty api''
:''nāmāny anantasya yaśo 'ṅkitāni yat''
:''śṛṇvanti gṛṇanti gāyanti sādhavaḥ''
:([[SB 1.5.11|SB 1.5.11]])

And just the other:

:''na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo''
:''pragṛṇīta karhicit''
:''tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham uśanti mānasā'' . . .
:([[SB 1.5.10|SB 1.5.10]])

Like that. These two ''ślokas'' are guide. And there . . . it is explained there.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' He says: "Actually in America, when you criticize someone who is highly regarded, people are very interested to read it." He says: "That is the American spirit. So I think by purposely singling out historical figures who are considered good welfare workers and showing that actually their welfare platform failed, it will make interesting reading and will help to establish the real platform of welfare in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I also want very much to write this book on men . . ." And then it says here, he says: "I . . . we decided on a number of historical figures. Because they lacked Kṛṣṇa in their philosophy and activities, their program for welfare failed. I want to deal with the figure of Mahatma Gandhi and also with the ''daridra-nārāyaṇa'' philosophy which was taught before his time by Ramakrishna and Vivekananda." He says: "When viewed in the light of ''Bhāgavata'' philosophy, these personalities will have to be criticized for their failure to put Kṛṣṇa in their teachings. My question is whether there is any objection on your part to a book which will criticize Ramakrishna and Vivekananda."

'''Prabhupāda:''' I think that is not good. You should go positively instead of attacking some particular person. They will never admit that they have been failure.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yeah, but we can prove that they are. See, his whole point of his book is that he wants to attack others.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No. That will not be good. That will create a section of enemy.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' That's what he's asking. He thought it would . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Satyaṁ vada mā likha''. You can criticize them with your mouth, but don't put into writing. That will create a section of enemy. Then we'll have to fight with the enemy one after another. That will be wasting of time and energy. What is the use of criticizing them? They are failure. Failure. Finish. Let us prove by action that all others are failures. And they will be automatically. Just like the Balayogi is failure now. (chuckles) Whatever it is. The Transcendental Meditation is going to be failure. And so many others. To criticize them means to give them some importance that, "the rival to Hare Kṛṣṇa." We don't care for them. We go on positively, and automatically they are failure.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yeah, every time I've seen a reporter say: "Swāmījī, what do you think about so and so?" you said: "I do not know about such persons."

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's all.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' And immediately that person becomes very unimportant. You don't even know about him.

'''Śatadhanya:''' And then you'd begin to preach.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yeah. He . . . actually he already thought of what you're saying. He says: "I think there is no harm in writing about Gandhi . . ."

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no, it is waste of time. Don't write such book.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Okay. He says: "In addition, I plan to write on other highly regarded welfare workers such as the American Civil Rights worker Martin Luther King." Boy, if he does that, every black person in America will hate us. It'll create many enemies. This book will be the biggest enemy-creator. We already have enough enemies.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That will be embarrassment. Yes. I said: "I do not know this." ''Bās''. Finished. And that means it is not so important that I should know it.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Right.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Unless something is important, why shall I try to understand it? It is all useless. Actually that is. Our criterion is, as soon as we see one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is rejected. He is nothing. He has no value. That is our criterion. Just like the other day he was opening that book of geography.

'''Śatadhanya:''' Oh, yes. When you opened the book of maps.

'''Upendra:''' World Atlas.

'''Prabhupāda:''' I rejected immediately. What is this nonsense? Why shall I refer to it? "Probably." Finished, one word. ''Tāvac ca śobhate mūrkho yāvat kiñcin na bhāṣate'': "A ''mūrkha'', a rascal, is beautiful so long he does not speak. As soon as he speaks, we understand where he is." ''Bās''. Just like you're cooking rice. You take one rice and press it. If it is not soft, oh, whole rice is not. If it is not soft, it is not yet cooked. Similarly, one word will give his identity. As soon as he says "probably," finished. Why shall I take trouble?

'''Upendra:''' In all of your books there's not that word.

'''Śatadhanya:''' That way we avoid wasting time.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. "Probably," "maybe," "in millions of years."

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' We call that "closet talk." That means when you start talking like that, we advise him to go into the closet and close the door. Then only they will have to hear it.

'''Prabhupāda:''' We take Kṛṣṇa's word. ''Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante'' . . . ([[BG 7.15 (1972)|BG 7.15]]). (break)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Very positive. He says: "One additional note. Our Library Party in America recently attended the annual convention of the largest organization of libraries." That's called the American Library Association. It's made up of all of the libraries in the US, and it's the most prestigious library association. "At this convention, the booth of the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust won the first prize . . ."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Just see. This is our triumph.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' ". . . for the most attractive booth. And a plaque was awarded to our representative, Śeṣa dāsa." He was called up in front of all of the gathering of librarians, and they awarded him a plaque. "He had the booth arranged with a portable movie projector showing one of the ISKCON films. Incense was burning, Indian sweets were distributed, and all your books were displayed as well as tapes. So it was nice that such a big organization recognized Kṛṣṇa was all-attractive."

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's the kind of propaganda.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Four hundred booths competed. Four hundred publishers.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And we became first.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' We were first.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Just see. This is triumph.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Actually, these others, when they try to sell their books, it's all nothing.

'''Prabhupāda:''' There is a proverb in Bengali, ''chuco mere hata gandha''. What is called that ''chuco''? It is like a rat, but a mouth is . . . they are different class.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Like a ''rat'', but . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Different class.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' The mouth is long?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Very long? Are you speaking of ant-eater? They eat ants?

'''Prabhupāda:''' I do not know. But that animal is called ''chuṅco''. (makes whispering sound) "''Chuchu'', ''chuchu''."

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Squirrel.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, a squirrel is different.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' ''Chuchu''? It's called ''chuchu''?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' It makes that sound.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So if you kill, then your hand becomes bad flavor.

'''Śatadhanya:''' Bad smell. Skunk.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Skunk.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Maybe.

'''Śatadhanya:''' He has stripe on back.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' It's a skunk. Must be.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So ''chuṅco mere hata gandha''. So if you want to kill, then your hand will be bad flavor.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Oh. Similarly, if you . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' We don't want to touch them even. I never did so.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' He got a review already on his book. This is from the . . . it's called Books West.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Keep your position respectable. Don't create many enemies. It is very simple. Why should I try to understand the rascal Gandhi philosophy and Ramakrishna? I take it from the beginning, they're useless. Why shall I waste my time? I know it is useless. They'll require superficial touch, no important. I therefore say in every . . . "I do not know who is this."

'''Śatadhanya:''' Just like one reporter, he asked Bhavānanda Mahārāja what he thinks of Vivekananda. So he said: "Who is that? I don't know." And he was very surprised. He said: "You do not know?"

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' He said: "Maybe he was important here, but we never heard of him in America."

'''Prabhupāda:''' (laughs) That is sufficient.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' So this is a review, from "Books West: A magazine of the book trade," from June 1977. It says: "Readings in Vedic Literature: the Tradition Speaks for Itself, by Satsvarūpa dāsa Goswami . . ."

'''Prabhupāda:''' So this kind of that, "I do not know who is Vivekananda." "Oh! You do not know?" Then you can know what he is. Then he can say: "This is his philosophy." Then you criticize, "This is nonsense!" Let him present Vivekananda's philosophy and smash it. Let the other party present Gandhi's philosophy and you crush it by kicking. That is the opportunity. Otherwise it will be the same philosophy, to kill that . . . what is that animal?

'''Devotees:''' Skunk.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Skunk, and the hand becomes badly flavored. Hmm?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes, that's right, Prabhupāda. Completely right. (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Therefore three books, ''Bhagavad-gītā'' . . . all my other small books, they are also on the basis. That ''Topmost Yoga'', it is based on ''Bhagavad-gītā'' in a different name. ''Easy Journey to Other Planets'' is based on ''Bhagavad-gītā'' in a different name. Why shall I waste? I don't want to waste time. In this condition of life I try to write book because I do not try to waste my time. All right, I am not having sleep. Let me try at night. If I can write one, two lines, that's all right. I don't want to read any other book or criticize or play. Waste of time. What is that first verse? ''Kim anyaiḥ śāstraiḥ''. Where it is?

'''Śatadhanya:''' ''Kim anyaiḥ śāstraiḥ''. That's from ''Bhāgavatam'', Śrīla Prabhupāda?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. Just see. You do not read. Find. Bring ''Bhāgavata'', the first chapter. (coughs)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' What is the verse?

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Kim anyaiḥ śāstraiḥ''. First of all, first chapter. First chapter, second verse.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' The second verse of the first chapter.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:'''

:''dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ''
:''vedyaṁ vāstavam atra vastu śivadaṁ tāpa-trayonmūlanam''
:''śrīmad-bhāgavate mahā-muni-kṛte kiṁ vā parair īśvaraḥ''
:''sadyo hṛdy avarudhyate 'tra kṛtibhiḥ śuśrūṣubhis tat-kṣaṇāt''
:([[SB 1.1.2|SB 1.1.2]])

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Śrīmad-bhāgavate mahā-muni-kṛte'', then?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' ''Mahā-muni-kṛte kiṁ vā parair īśvaraḥ''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah. ''Kiṁ vā paraiḥ'': "What is the use of other ''śāstras''? Here is the essence of ''śāstra'' given by Mahāmuni Vyāsadeva. Take it." That is final.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Says that all others are kicked out.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra'' ([[SB 1.1.2|SB 1.1.2]]). All cheating. So if I know . . . just like Vivekananda is cheating, Gandhi is cheating, he is cheating. Why shall I waste my time? Actually they are cheating. What do they know about religion? Therefore in the beginning, "I do not know this man."

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' It really takes the air out of their sails. It really diminishes their position to say that, more than anything else, when you say: "I don't know who they are. Who is that you're talking about? Never heard his name."

'''Prabhupāda:''' (chuckles) That is sufficient.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' That's the worst thing to say about them. There's a very good article he sent. I should read you this review first. The article is also very good. It says: "New religious movements considered likely to last." Now the American people are recognizing. Of course, this is a general article, not specifically about us. But they're understanding that these religions are not going to be driven away. Anyway, this review says: "When it comes to Hindu scripture, the Hare Kṛṣṇas are unabashed fundamentalists." That's a good credit. That's a very good certification, "Unabashed fundamentalists."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Unabash, or unbast?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Unabashed.

'''Prabhupāda:''' What is?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' It means without any doubt, without any holding back. Completely outspokenly fundamentalists, very conventional.

'''Śatadhanya:''' That means we strictly adhere to the śāstra. Fundamental.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' "In their view, controverted by most Western scholars . . ." Most Western scholars are in controversy with us about our view. ". . . the basic Vedic documents form a constant theistic doctrine first presented to mankind five thousand years ago."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Just see. Such a good certificate.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' "Satsvarūpa, American-born personal secretary to Swami Bhaktivedanta, presents the official Hare Kṛṣṇa approach." They don't even identify you. They know who you are. You are so well known in these literary circles now that someone says, "Swami Bhaktivedanta," they don't have to say "Founder of ISKCON." They know already from your other books. ". . . presents the official Hare Kṛṣṇa approach in an articulate and highly serviceable introduction to this immense body of literature. The readings include the Īśopaniṣad, the ''Bhagavad-gītā'' and excerpts from Purāṇas, supplemented with a glossary and index. Preliminary essays detail the logic by which his group rejects of the academic experts and the rival approach of the ''advaita-vedānta'' that Westerners know through the writings of Vivekananda and Radhakrishnan. This is a book long needed to balance out the monist theology that is but one aspect of Indian religious thought." In other words, this is one of the first books to present the Vaiṣṇava viewpoint, not simply the Māyāvādī viewpoint. He says, "It's well needed." That's all he's written.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Very appreciated. Very much appreciate.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Satsvarūpa writes that this will very much help the . . . he says it will help its sales in America. Then this article . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' It is very thoughtful article.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' That . . . this?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No. That you were reading.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Well, yeah. I don't want to have to make you hear the whole thing, because there's not enough about us. But I can read a little bit of it to give an idea. "There are signs here and elsewhere across the country that the youth-oriented religious sects that sprang into existence a few years ago are gaining a foothold for an enduring future. The emergence of a wide assortment of spiritual movements, from Eastern religions to Jesus people . . ."

'''Prabhupāda:''' If we introduce this Ratha-yātrā in every city, all other religions will be finished. (laughs) Eh?

'''Upendra:''' Yes, Prabhupāda. In San Francisco there's nothing. The only thing in San Francisco is the Chinese Parade people come for. And the next thing is Ratha-yātrā. It is bigger than the Chinese parade, the Ratha-yātrā.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' It says here . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ratha-yātrā is highly demonstrative. And what Chinese parade?

'''Upendra:''' One dragon only.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Childish. What dragon will help?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' The whole article is more or less . . . it's not really worth reading the whole thing. It's mainly about that they're here to stay. It mentions Hare Kṛṣṇa. It says: "After nearly a decade of this ferment, the underlying question is whether these new groups will last. The answer appears to be that most of them, though faced with high attrition rates and continuing obstacles to survival, have retained a small but sufficient core of devoted followers and are acquiring the resources needed to continue their work." It mentions that there are a number of court battles, and including members of the Hare Kṛṣṇa. Ours is the first group they mention.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That, it does not mention about the Transcendental Meditation?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' No, they never mention. 'Cause they're not . . . there's nothing . . . they don't get taken to court, Transcendental Meditation, because there's really no . . . they don't demand anything of their followers. They just say: "Every day take off fifteen minutes and sleep," or something.

'''Śatadhanya:''' They have no philosophy.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' There's nothing. There's nothing to anger anybody. Simply the main thing is that it's a big hoax. So now it's being investigated by the . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Ācchā''?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Oh, yes. It's being investigated by a Congressional subcommittee in America now, Transcendental Meditation. But there's no individual parents getting angry, because it doesn't change anything.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' It doesn't make you change any different. Actually, no one even recognizes any difference after following it. They're fools to begin with, and they come out fools at the end. It says here . . . it quotes Dr. Stillson Judah. Unfortunately it doesn't quote Dr. Stillson Judah right about us. It seems that Stillson Judah has also written a book about Moon. So it's quoting, "Stillson Judah of the Graduate Theological Union shows a small core of membership, three thousand in the case of the Moonies." It says here that "But through persistent evangelic efforts these groups are winning new converts and attain fiscal stability."

'''Prabhupāda:''' I think that Maharishi Yogi is therefore in Hrishikesh. He's afraid of being arrested or something like that.

'''Śatadhanya:''' He's hiding.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' It says here that, "The Moon people expect to discontinue street sales of candy and other items in three years, hoping to have become totally reliant upon businesses by then." See, we go out, and we distribute our books, and we use, you know, things like candy or incense as a . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Introduction.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' . . . introduction. So we were imitated by all the other groups. But the only difference is that's all they have is the introduction. They don't come with the book at the end. All they do is sell candy and the incense to get money. So groups like the Moonies, they want to discontinue this. In place, they want to make big businesses, just like the Christians have. And nobody will be on the street anymore.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Even gambling.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Oh, anything. It doesn't matter what it is. For example . . . I was reading a report about them. So just like we have our ''saṅkīrtana'' parties and each, like five or six men in a van go out, they also have vans like that. But each van they have one Korean woman with each van. They say she keeps the accounts. That was the explanation. But it's obvious that she's a prostitute. It's very clear. So they do anything. They have no scruples or principles. So at any rate, the thing I feel about this is that we take pride in saying that we are on the streets now and we'll always be on the streets, because our business is selling books. We're not going to depend on some big business and then stop our preaching. They are not preaching. This proves that what they do on the street is not preaching. They're simply collecting money.

'''Prabhupāda:''' They have nothing to preach. What they have got to preach?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Here's a picture. It shows only two pictures. Here is the difference between the Moonies and us. Here is a picture of some Moon woman. She has a picture of Moon on her button, and her daughter waving the American flag. And then here's us, the devotees: "Hare Kṛṣṇa followers parade on the street." This is in New York. These are some of the New York devotees. "The drop-out rate is high, but there is a slow though steady growth rate among the small membership." This is from the New York Times. I know all of these devotees.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Slow but sure.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Right. "Slow but steady growth rate." There's quite a difference. What does this have to do with anything, waving an American flag? This is our trademark, this shaved head.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. Yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Shaved head and ''tilaka''. They all have ''tilaka'' and beadbags. And everyone is happy here.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So there is some agitation about our movement, that "How it is going on, whether it will stay." So anything more?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' No. It's just . . . these are all signs that our movement is here to stay.

'''Prabhupāda:''' It will stay.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' It says here, "Aid the Fresh Air Fund." This is a fund. They collect millions of dollars for keeping the air fresh. But they never think why the air has become unfresh due to all these foolish industries pumping so many obnoxious things into the air. That they won't stop. But they'll devise new machines to clean the air.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. So here is one of the machine. That we are creating, the farms. Air fresh.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' It is fresh air.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Sometimes when you go to the farm . . . I would go there every week. I would immediately become . . . the air is so clean that it makes you exhausted to breathe it almost. You're not even used to it. You get so much . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Immediately you become refresh, immediately, as soon as you see the fresh milk, fresh vegetables.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Remember how you felt when you came there? You liked it very much. You got a big appetite when you went there.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. Yes. Well, this is my condition. I would have . . . otherwise I would have gone there. Very nice and fresh.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' I think it's time for your massage, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. Now we shall go.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' So I'll be over by . . . (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . human form of body or in the form of this insect. And ''karmīs'', they're trying to improve their . . . (indistinct) . . . that is their ignorance.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' They never get tired of trying.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. They think by changing the body . . . demigod's . . . that is called ''mṛtyu-saṁsāra''. The facility is in that you have to die, you have to take again birth, and again begin the same tasting, ''āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam''. No improvement of taste, but improvement of the container. If you go by bullock cart and if you go by motorcar, the transport is the same. But we are thinking, "Now we have improved scientific." That's all. First of all improve that you'll not die. Because you are eternal. ''Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre'' ([[BG 2.20 (1972)|BG 2.20]]). So where is that improvement? That improvement is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. ''Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma'' ([[BG 4.9 (1972)|BG 4.9]]).

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Today in the class we read a purport of Your Divine Grace's from the ''Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam'', a very beautiful purport in which the verse says that Bhārata-varṣa is ''karma-kṣetra''. It is the place for fruitive activities. And the other ''varṣas'' is where you enjoy the results of those activities. So then you explain the verse, that how the living entity is wandering all over the material universe, but actually he has not improved his condition at all. It is . . . you explain that it's simply a waste of time. He's not using his human form of life. So when you come on this planet, you should use it to get a ''guru''. Otherwise, simply wandering up and down, up and down.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, ''ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān'' ([[CC Madhya 19.151|CC Madhya 19.151]]). This information is obtained by the most fortunate person. What is the use of wandering in this way?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' That verse was in the purport. You quoted it there also.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yeah. I use that, "Survival of the fittest." I said, "But who is fit?"

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' What you had said the other . . . and then I told them, "The four-legged . . ."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Four-legged dog race.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Dog race.

'''Prabhupāda:''' It is a great poison. Only fortunate person, they can understand what is the value of Kṛṣṇa. Only fortunate.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' But it says, ''guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya'', ''bhakti-latā-bīja'' ([[CC Madhya 19.151|CC Madhya 19.151]]). So it's fortunate, because the ''guru'' gives the . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' So that fortune is . . . by fortune he gets a ''guru''. And by the instruction of ''guru'' he gets Kṛṣṇa. So to create fortune we have to take this regulative principles, to become fortunate that someday he'll be able to meet somebody who is real ''guru'' and who will give him real guidance. "Man is the architect of his own fortune." Therefore pious activities and other things, ''yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-kriyā'', these things are recommended, to acquire the qualities of ''brāhmaṇa''. These things are required. If he remains like animal, that fortune will never come. This is the architecture. So that fortune begins when he enters the ''varṇāśrama-dharma'', four varṇas and four ''āśramas''. That is a easiest way. Fortune does not come that "This is very important." Man is the architect of his own fortune. He must accept some process to become fortunate. And if you want to become fortunate through the rich man, you should enter . . . just like businessman . . . and without doing something, how you can get fortune? That is now . . . there is no such program. The program is just an a program: eating, sleeping, mating and defend. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so important, to give them the fortune, not immediately but our immediate future, by acting in this way, he'll be fortunate.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' But we have to show the example of how to act.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is there, the rules and regulations. This Deity worship is accepting regulative principle, abide by the orders of ''guru''. That is there. This is the process. Just like all our disciples, they write that, "We have got now life." Because they are trying to follow, they are getting—gradually, gradually.

:''ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva''
:''guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja''
:([[CC Madhya 19.151|CC Madhya 19.151]])

:''mālī hañā sei bīja karaye āropaṇa''
:''śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye secana''
:([[CC Madhya 19.152|CC Madhya 19.152]])

''Seca''. It is like a creeper. So you get the seed from ''guru'' and sow it and regularly pour water. That watering is ''śravaṇa-kīrtana''. ''Śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye secana''. How simplified.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' In this age Caitanya Mahāprabhu has made everything very simplified.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. ''Patitānāṁ pāvanebhyaḥ''. ''Pāpī tāpī jata chilo'', ''hari-nāme uddhārilo'', ''tāra sākṣī jagāi-mādhāi'', ''brajendra-nandana jei'', ''śaci-suta hoilo sei'' (Iṣṭa-deve Vijñapti 3). Kṛṣṇa is coming. He has come as Caitanya Mahāprabhu to deliver these ''pāpīs'' and ''tāpīs''. Whole process is scientific. It is not (laughs) the Ramakrishna, Vivekananda. It is not that. What do they know? Or Gandhi. They are also trying for the betterment, but they do not accept the standard process. Everyone is trying. That is struggle for existence. So who is fittest? The fittest is the devotee. He'll survive. ''Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma'' ([[BG 4.9 (1972)|BG 4.9]]). I have now explained how Kṛṣṇa becomes subordinate to devotee. (turns on dictaphone, plays back from tape) "Yamarāja, controller of all living entities, is afraid of the order of Kṛṣṇa. Still, Kṛṣṇa is afraid of mother's stick. This contradictory thing cannot be understood by one who is not devotee. Devotee can understand how much powerful is unalloyed devotional service to Kṛṣṇa, so much so He can be controlled by such devotee. ''Bhṛtya-vaśyata''. That means under the control of the servant, but He is under the control of pure love by the servant. In the ''Bhagavad-gītā'' also, we see, Kṛṣṇa became the chariot driver of Arjuna. Arjuna is ordering Him, ''senayor ubhayor madhye rathaṁ sthāpaya me acyuta'' ([[BG 1.21-22 (1972)|BG 1.21]]). Here Kṛṣṇa has agreed . . . (break) '. . . my chariot . . .' (break) '. . . to execute my order. Place my chariot between the two party soldiers.' Kṛṣṇa immediately executed his order. One may argue in this connection that Kṛṣṇa is also not independent. This is ''ajñāna'', ignorance. Kṛṣṇa is fully independent. When He becomes subordinate to the devotees He is ''ānanda-cinmaya-rasa''. Humor of transcendental qualities increases transcendental pleasure. One who worships Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, therefore sometimes desires to be controlled by somebody controller. Nobody else . . . (break) . . . pure devotee." (end of tape playback section) Everyone worships Him as the Supreme, but sometimes He desires, "Somebody will control over."

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Your purports have such wonderful realization. They are completely nectar to read and hear.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That I say.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Today the one question was asked in the class that "Isn't it true that as one makes advancement, ''māyā'' will put up so many obstructions, even more as the devotee advances?" So I answered by saying that, "In the case of a pure devotee, ''māyā'' realizes that there is no need to challenge, because ''māyā'' is the servant of Kṛṣṇa. So when someone is fully devoted, just like Śrīla Prabhupāda, then māyā cannot touch, and she knows that he will use everything in Kṛṣṇa's service, so there is no need to put up any obstacle, and all facilities are given to the pure devotee for using everything in Kṛṣṇa's service."

'''Prabhupāda:''' So I can stop.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' ''Jaya'', Śrīla Prabhupāda. Gurukula boys are waiting to greet you with kīrtana. They can come in?

'''Bhakti-caru Swami:''' Srila Prabhupāda, foler ros korbo? (Srila Prabhupāda, should I make fruit juice?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. (break) Anyway, don't be sorry.

'''Vrindavan De:''' Na na. Ota kiser? Chinta korchina. (No, no. That's nothing. I am not worried.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' So what you have paid for you coming and going? What is the amount?

'''Vrindavan De:''' . . . (indistinct Bengali)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' From the Mathurā station?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no. From Calcutta to here. Ticket, what is?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Something like about . . . the ticket's about fifty-six . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' (break) . . . the modern ''kīrtana''. ''Kīrtanāt'' . . . (break) "We shall improve our economic condition for more and more sense gratification." And that is the mistake. People are trying for that. ''Kāmasya nendriya-prītir jīvo jīveta yāvatā'' ([[SB 1.2.10|SB 1.2.10]]). ''Yāvad artha-prayojanam''. Whatever money is required for maintaining, that's all. And as soon as we increase the so-called standard of happiness by sense gratification, then there is trouble. That is going on all over the world. They want money. They're not satis . . . "More money. More money. More money." Why more money? If you can live comfortably with certain amount of money, be satisfied in that way. Why more?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Unnecessary.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Unnecessary, and increase anxiety.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes. The worries increase.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Why more? Live very comfortably and be advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is required.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' How much can you eat more than your share?

'''Prabhupāda:''' We have seen many persons . . . the other day, he was our member, one Mr. Agarwal? Very rich man. He committed suicide falling down from the bridge to the Ganges. What is that? Very rich man. The happiness cannot be attained in that way. Happiness is in Kṛṣṇa. It is so sublime that . . . Dhruva Mahārāja went for kingdom, and he performed austerities. When he saw Kṛṣṇa he said: "I don't want anything." ''Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce'' ([[CC Madhya 22.42|CC Madhya 22.42]]): "I came to ask You something, but I am now fully satisfied." That is happiness. ''Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir'' . . . ''yayātmā supra'' . . . ([[SB 1.2.6|SB 1.2.6]]). You want to satisfy your ''ātmā''. So that can be satisfied when you are fully devoted to Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, simply by material wealth, increasing your economic position, that is not . . . they do not know it. The European civilization, they are struggling very hard—colonization, industrialization, this . . . but they're not . . . (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' To keep one's status position as gentleman, he must have sufficient income. That's all. One should be satisfied in that way and be happy in Kṛṣṇa.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:'''

:''anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ''
:''jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam''
:''ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-''
:''śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā''
:(Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.1.11)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh? Yes. That is real happiness. You should know what is happiness. Whatever we're getting, that is sufficient if . . . simply to keep your status quo nicely. That's all. This is secret of happiness. I must not be poverty-stricken, neither I shall hanker after becoming very, very so-called rich. That is happiness. That arrangement is there. Your present position will never be disturbed, you'll improve, and you get, after seven years, 2,500 rupees per month. What do you want more? This is simply idea, that "My father has got so much property for me." And even if your father leaves so much property for you, if you have no luck to enjoy it, you'll be Harendranatha Singh. That you have seen, that your maternal uncles, what they have done? They're all rich men's son. My father-in-law left sufficient property. But what did they do? Simply drunk and die. Where is happiness? Is that happiness, do you think? Now still they are suffering, his family. If Kṛṣṇa has saved you from that . . .

'''Vrindavan De:''' With provocative disturbance.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Just see. To enjoy happiness they are sitting in that house. Your grandfather left such a nice property. But they are not happy. And they disturb you. You came out . . . practically seeing, you are happy more than them.

'''Vrindavan De:''' True. That is a correct. That is correct.

'''Prabhupāda:''' If you had lived in that house, you would have been simply harassed. So Kṛṣṇa has done so much mercy that you got free from their association, and now you are doing . . .

'''Vrindavan De:''' Also the mercy of Kṛṣṇa.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So happiness does not depend on money.

'''Vrindavan De:''' They became old, but they are still unhappy like previous, as in the past.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So you become devotee. Come as soon as possible here, or wherever; you'll get advice. I'll give you advice how to become happy. It is not happiness that, "I have got so much property from my father." ''Bālasya neha śaraṇaṁ pitarau nṛsiṁha'' ([[SB 7.9.19|SB 7.9.19]]). Prahlāda Mahārāja said. Prahlāda Mahārāja said that "The father-mother cannot make one happy." There are so many examples. ''Bālasya neha śaraṇaṁ pitarau nṛsiṁha''. There are many rich father, and the sons are suffering. You have seen your maternal uncles. Their father was rich and left immense property, and what was their happiness?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Drinking.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Bās''. They simply died by drinking. Got some cheap money from the father, and they habituated. Is it not? Your two uncles, this Barbhavan, Caturbhavan? So what is their happiness?

'''Vrindavan De:''' Simply frustrated, they died. That's all. Finish.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Actually this has always been your program, that you give us a little money to begin, but then you insist that, "Now develop it on your own strength."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' "I'll give you help to begin it . . ."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' ". . . but you must develop it." In all of the temples, like that.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Like in Hyderabad now . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' . . . you want to give some to begin, but they must now develop.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is the duty. But not that you can get happiness. Happiness is in your hand, in your fortune, in your . . . that is a different thing. Don't think that, "My father left so much property. Let me eat and drink and go to hell." That is not happiness. ''Sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriya-grāhyam'' ([[BG 6.20-23 (1972)|BG 6.21]]). Everything explained. Read books. Be devotee. That will bring happiness. And economically you may not be disturbed that you're poverty-stricken, you have to beg something or . . . no. Whatever is absolutely . . . more than that. More than that. One man does not require 2,500. Nowadays, even it is very expensive, one thousand is sufficient. Although everything is expensive, one thousand rupees sufficient for a person. You are each getting that. So the plan is all right. Now you try to become devotee. That will bring happiness. Otherwise there is no happiness.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' We have experience of that for sure.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. They were all rich men's sons. Where is happiness? They became hippie.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' We gave up all of that because we weren't happy.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Everyone wants to be happy. Who does not want to be happy? But he does not know how to become happy.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' I could see my parents. They had so much money, but they weren't happy.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Nobody's happy, I have seen. Therefore they drink. Whenever there is unhappiness, they cannot adjust it—"Let me drink." This is Western happiness.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Or sex life.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's all. They have no other information. So just try. You are comfortably situated. There is no economic shortage. Now you become devotee. Then you'll be happy. Otherwise it is not possible. Don't think by getting large sum money one becomes happy. That is not the fact. That is mistake.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' We've all given our . . . that position up. We were all coming from money, but now we don't have any personal money, but we're millions of times happier.

'''Śatadhanya:''' And we don't lack any material benefit. We have spiritual and material.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Who can live in such house? Royal. Royal palace. We have 102 royal palaces. More than that. So even from economic point of view, nobody is happier than us. Nobody is happier.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' That New York building cost over one million dollars.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. If you go, I shall give you chance to see how my devotees are living happy in big, big houses. Big, big house. Do you think to possess a twelve-story house in New York is joke?

'''Vrindavan De:''' Even I cannot think of.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Is joke? We have got. In Detroit we have got a house which was constructed at the cost of six million dollars, fifty years ago. What is the price, six million dollars?

'''Vrindavan De:''' Sixty ''lakhs''.

'''Indian:''' Five ''lakhs'' forty thousand.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' No, no, no. Six million means five ''crores''.

'''Indian man:''' Five crores, forty . . .

'''Vrindavan De:''' No. One million is ten ''lakhs''.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Six ''crores''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So that house we are possessing.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' You should see this house. Fourteen hundred ounces of gold on the ceilings. The ceilings are coated with gold, fourteen hundred ounces. Yes. The floors are heated from underneath.

'''Indian man:''' Twenty-two-karat gold.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes. And the floors are heated underneath. All the floors. Because it's cold climate, they have heating underneath the floors.

'''Prabhupāda:''' When I entered the toilet bathroom I was surprised. (laughs)

'''Vrindavan De:''' In USA or Detroit?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Detroit, Michigan, USA. Prabhupāda's bathroom is nearly the size of this room, and it's all gold-covered on the ceiling, and the sink is a piece of marble this thick.

'''Prabhupāda:''' In London my sitting room is bigger than this, double. My sleeping room is like this. And my toilet room is half this. This is my quarters.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' You have so many places that you cannot visit them all in a year.

'''Prabhupāda:''' In everywhere. I have got now 120 places, palaces.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' And each place with fifty to one hundred servants.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. So happiness, unless Kṛṣṇa gives, there is no question of happiness. Our business should be that we may not be uncomfortably living which will disturb our progress of Kṛṣṇa consciousness—that much. Other things? Depend on Kṛṣṇa. If He wants to make you Indra, you become Indra. There is no happiness even by becoming Indra. You . . . we read from books. Indra is how much disturbed, always fighting, ''devāsura''. He has to fight. The same thing as here. Only difference is the standard of living in the heaven and the duration of life are greater. But if you have to struggle for existence, then what is the use of this duration of life, greater? Simply struggling, where is happiness? So in different planets, in different species of life . . . I see at night these small bugs. They have got the same happiness. The husband and wife or the male and female together, jumping and having sex, and everything in a different body. And same thing is going on in higher planetary system. There is no other business. ''Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam'': eating, sleeping, sex, and defense. But breath must be there. ''Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam'' ([[BG 13.8-12 (1972)|BG 13.9]]). So one who is intelligent: "So here is unhappiness: why I'll have to die?" And that can be solved only by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no other.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' No more death for a devotee.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No. ''Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma'' ([[BG 4.9 (1972)|BG 4.9]]). If you don't attain Kṛṣṇa in this life, then again you go back to the process of birth and death. That's all. And in that process of birth-death, sometimes you become Indra and sometimes you become that small bug, that's all, according to your ''karma''. So our struggle should be how to stop this birth and death, ''punar-janma-jayāya'', to conquer over rebirth. That is real life. Again dying, again entering in the mother's womb, lie down packed up for ten months, and then again come out, again another chapter begins—is that life? These rascals, they do not understand.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Imprisonment.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Solve this problem. And don't be poverty-stricken. That's all. That is happiness. There is no need of . . . so we, the members of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are living hundred times happily than anyone else. Hundred times. They cannot dream. They are envious. In Los Angeles the neighborhood men, they're envious, that "These people, these devotees, they do not do anything, and they are living so comfortably—so many cars, nice palace, nice food." They inquire. They do not know. Don't expect in that way happiness. That is futile that, "Our father will leave lakhs of rupees and we shall get the interest and enjoy and then drink and go on." That is not happiness. Work hard how to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and be happy in this way. Kṛṣṇa will give. And ''yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham''. ''Teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham'' ([[BG 9.22 (1972)|BG 9.22]]). He knows what is your need. Depend on Kṛṣṇa. But don't sit down like lazy. ''Yudhyasva mām anusmara'' ([[BG 8.7 (1972)|BG 8.7]]). This is instruction. We are trying to teach the whole world that "Be Kṛṣṇa conscious, and keep your status quo very nicely without any being poverty-stricken, and that is happiness." That is happiness. And so far the bodily disadvantages, so as soon as you get this material body, you'll have to . . . you have to die. You have to suffer from disease. You have to take birth. ''Janma-mṛtyu-jarā''. So therefore ''śāstra'' says, that verse that, "Don't be attached to ''karma-kāṇḍa'', fruitive activities." ''Na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam'': "By ''karma-kāṇḍa'' you can get better body, but that will not solve your problem." ''Yata ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ'' ([[SB 5.5.4|SB 5.5.4]]). This body is temporary, but so long you have got this body, you have to suffer, this way or that way. So this is your real unhappiness, to get this material . . . ''kleśada''. ''Kleśada'' means always giving trouble. From the childhood they are crying. He has got some ''kleśa''. The mother cannot understand. He's crying.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' The first sound the baby makes is the crying.

'''Prabhupāda:''' He cannot express what is his inconvenience, and he's feeling one inconvenience, and the mother is trying to make him happy in other way. He's crying more, more, more, more. Where is happiness? Within the womb there was unhappiness, packed-up. When he comes down there is unhappiness. Then go to school, take education, appear for examination—that is unhappiness. Then grow up, then engage in some earning money—that is unhappiness. Then maintain your children, and that is unhappiness. Where is happiness, rascals? Rascal. Both are suffering.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Without Kṛṣṇa, there is no question of happiness.

'''Prabhupāda:''' This is simply ''anarthas'', unnecessary creating unhappiness. Unnecessary.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' But with Kṛṣṇa, all those things you describe become happy.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Kṛṣṇa makes adjustment. Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes, and He is giving advice that "Do like this. You'll be happy in this life and next."

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Actually we work all day long—no salary, no vacation—and we're . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Still, they are happy.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' . . . feeling ecstasy.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Every letter I receive from my disciple, how happy they are, it is explained.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Every letter it's the same.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Cakhu-dān dilo jei'', ''janme janme'' . . .

'''Devotees:''' ''Prabhu sei''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Prabhu sei''. So this eye-opening is given by ''guru''. ''Cakhu-dān dilo jei'', ''janme janme prabhu sei'' (Śrī-guru-vandanā 3). Then?

'''Śatadhanya:''' ''Divya-jñān hṛde prokāśito''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Divya-jñān hṛde prokāśito''. Oh, he understands, "This is the way of happiness." ''Śrī-guru-caraṇe rati'', ''ei sei uttama-gati'', ''ār nā koriho mane āśā''. That if one gets just guide, then that is happiness. Otherwise there is no happiness. ''Śrī-guru-caraṇa-padma'': ''kevala-bhakati-sadma'' . . . hmm?

'''Bhakti-caru:''' ''Bandoṅ mui sāvadhāna'' . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Bandoṅ mui sāvadhāna''. So fortunately we got right ''guru''. He has given us the way how to live, and that is happiness. (pause) ''Munayaḥ sādhu pṛṣṭo 'ham'' . . . ([[SB 1.2.5|SB 1.2.5]]). What is that verse I referred?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Today? ''Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra nirmatsarāṇām'' ([[SB 1.1.2|SB 1.1.2]]).

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no. ''Munayaḥ sādhu pṛṣṭo 'haṁ bhavadbhir loka-maṅgalam'', ''kṛṣṇa-sampraśno yenātmā suprasīdati'' ([[SB 1.2.5|SB 1.2.5]]). Happiness is there. Unless you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, there is no question of . . . this is a false happiness, that "If I get money, I'll be happy." That is false. So many men, they have got money. We see practically. The whole European civilization, American civilization, is based on this fundamental idea that, "Let us have money and we shall be happy." And nobody is happy. Nobody is happy, a single man. Very big, big buildings, very nice car, very nice road, but there is no question of happiness. Always restlessness. Is it not? They are practically proved. And becoming implicated, ''karma-bandha'', ''loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ'' ([[BG 3.9 (1972)|BG 3.9]]), one after another. Because he is not independent; he is under ''karma-bandhana''. If you touch fire, it must burn you. You cannot avoid it. That is not possible. ''Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sar'' . . . ([[BG 3.27 (1972)|BG 3.27]]), ''ahaṅkāra-vimūḍha''. Are you independent? Suppose if you touch fire, are you independent that your finger will not burn? It must burn. So you'll search after so much so-called happiness—they're simply burning their finger, that's all. ''Karma-bandhanaḥ''. ''Yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ'' ([[BG 3.9 (1972)|BG 3.9]]). So I'm insisting you about this distribution of the book. That is a service. If you can do some pushing on these books some way or other, you get material profit; at the same time, it is service.

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Hmm. Not just a business.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No. That is not my proposal. Why shall I engage you in business, ''karma-bandhana''? That is not. If you can give little service, that is benefit. ''Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt'' ([[BG 2.40 (1972)|BG 2.40]]). They are doing without any personal profit. You are ''gṛhastha''. You can take some profit. That's all. But it is service. Anyone who will give some service to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, he'll make progress. Therefore I'm trying to engage everyone in this movement some way or other. A little help, ''svalpam api''. It is such a nice thing. With that spirit you do and live comfortably. There is no question of unnecessarily taking a life of poverty-stricken. There is no necessity. But there is no necessity of luxurious life. And luxurious will already come for devotees. That I have already given example. Who can live more luxuriously than ourself? Where is that? It is practical. All over the world we are living like princes. Princes even cannot live like that. All our devotees, and what to speak of myself? Six crores of rupees one house, who can possess? How many men there are in the world who has got many houses, each six crores of rupees? Hmm? Bolo.

'''Vrindavan De:''' . . . (indistinct Bengali)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Another letter just came today about the property that they want to purchase in Washington. Ambarīṣa wants to purchase?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Now this Ambarīṣa, Alfred Ford, he is prepared that, "Here is two hundred seventy ''crores'' of rupees for you. You take it whenever you like." Two hundred seventy ''crores''. He has got his property. He has offered, "You take it immediately, and I'll give you." So we are engaging that money to construct a huge building in Washington for showing this planetary system. What shall I do with the money, two hundred seventy crores? (chuckles) Three hundred million? No?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' About thirty million. But he has other, plus other. That he has, money in the bank.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So wherefrom the money is coming unless Kṛṣṇa sends? Did I go to America with some money?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Forty rupees.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's all. And one tin box. (laughs) Give up this mistaken idea that, "If we get some large sum of money from our father, then we shall be happy." That is not . . . that is wrong idea. Happiness depends on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You can take advantage from your father that you may not live uncomfortably. That's all, that much. That I am making sufficient arrangement. In your present position you'll never be disturbed. Now try to become happy by advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is required.

:''nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma''
:''yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti''
:''na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam''
:''asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ''
:([[SB 5.5.4|SB 5.5.4]])

Pramattaḥ. These persons are mad, ''pramattaḥ''. ''Prakṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa mattaḥ''. ''Mattaḥ'' means mad, and ''pra'' means still more, more than mad. ''Kurute vikarma''. They are engaged in so many nefarious activities—black market, white market, stealing, burglaring, so on, so on. Vikarma. ''Idam adya mayā labdham idaṁ prāpsye punar dhanam'' ([[BG 16.13-15 (1972)|BG 16.13]]). This is asuric thing. If one can squander away ''crores'' of rupees like Harendra Singh . . . suppose if I give you each one ''lakh'' of rupees, how long it will take? You can squander away in one day. Take some regular income. Be comfortably situated. Advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. ''Bās''. That is happiness. In your whole life you'll never be disturbed for economic condition. That I am arranging. That's all. That "I am suffering for money," no. It will be regularly. Is not that scheme? So what is next, Mukherjee?

'''Indian Man:''' Hyderabad

'''Prabhupāda:''' Woh Hyderabad, to tumko hi develop karne padhega . . . (indistinct) . . . ek cheej dikha do. (That Hyderabad, you will have to develop it . . . (indistinct) . . . show me one thing.) It will be great service to Kṛṣṇa. Wo hi. Wahi ka hi admi, woh achi tarah se khai, piye aur jo kuch profit milta hai . . . aur bhajan karein. Yeh hum chahte hai. Kya kuch, apna cheej bana lo, apna . . . (indistinct) . . . bana lo aur raho, Bhagavat bhajan karo. (That only. A person from that place, he eats and drinks nicely and whatever profit is available . . . and sings songs of God. This is what I want. What not, makes his own thing, own . . . (indistinct) . . . make it, stay and sing songs of God.) That is life.

'''Indian Man:''' Pani nahi nikla to . . . (indistinct) . . . (What if the water doesn't come out . . . (indistinct) . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Pani to aisa nikal sakta hai ki had se jyada. (Such an amount of water can come out, more than the limits.) Provided they take up the step. ''Yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ'' ([[BG 3.14 (1972)|BG 3.14]]). Let them chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and ''pāni'' will come from up, not from, the ground. Otherwise ''Gītā'' is false. ''Yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ''. Yeh jo pani gir raha hai upar se, yeh pani tum kaha se nikaloge? (This water which is falling from above, where can you take out such water from?)

'''Indian Man:''' Nahi niklega. (It can't be taken out.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Upar se pani nahi girne se, niche se pump karke kitna pani nikaloge? (If water doesn't fall from above then from below, how much water can you pump out?) That is going on. Yeh jo Bhagwat bhajan, Yagya sab chhor diya hai na. Ki pani nikalna chahe fir pani hi nahi hai . . . (indistinct) . . . (Singing songs of God, doing sacrifices—all that has been left. Therefore now you want to take out water, but there is no water . . . (indistinct) . . .) The nature is forcing, ''yajña''. ''Yajñaḥ karma-samudbhavaḥ''. Perform ''yajña''. And in Kali-yuga the ''yajña'' is so easy: ''saṅkīrtanair yajñaiḥ'', ''yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ''.

:''kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ''
:''sāṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam''
:''yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair''
:''yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ''
:([[SB 11.5.32|SB 11.5.32]])

Sab gao gao mein kirtan karein, pani upar se barsega. Niche se kaha karoge. (Do kirtan in all the villages and water will come from above. From below what will you do.) That's what i was saying.

'''Indian Man:''' Prabhupada, ek hi jagah thodi, sab hi jagah pani ka . . . (indistinct) . . . (Prabhupāda not only in one place, everywhere there is water . . . (indistinct) . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Inko engage kar sakte . . . (indistinct) . . . jab tak nahi aata hai. Kuch to prayas karo. Pani niche se nahi . . . asal pani to upar se . . . (indistinct) . . . prayas bhi karo, taki real pani. (They can be engaged . . . (indistinct) . . . until it comes. Put in some effort. Water won't come from below . . . actual water will come from above . . . (indistinct) . . . also make some effort, so that's real water.)

'''Indian Man:''' Wohi baat to hai. Ki prayas karna padhega. (That is the thing. That effort will have to be made.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Kāmaṁ vavar ṣa parjanyaḥ yeh ([[SB 1.10.4|SB 1.10.4]]) shastra mein hai. Pani barasne se tumhara jitna cheej ka jareoorat hai woh sab mil jayega. Sarva-kāma-dugha-mahī ([[SB 1.10.4|SB 1.10.4]]). . . (indistinct) . . . pani barasna hi sab fullfil karta hai. For all demands . . . (indistinct) . . . ki unko kirtan mein lagao, khub pet bhar ke khai . . . paani sab theek thak ho jayega . . . (indistinct) . . . example of . . . (indistinct) . . . acharya. (Kāmaṁ vavar ṣa parjanyaḥ yeh ([[SB 1.10.4|SB 1.10.4]]) It's in the scriptures. From the rainfall, all your requirements will be met. ''Sarva-kāma-dugha-mahī'' ([[SB 1.10.4|SB 1.10.4]]) . . . (indistinct) . . . pouring of rain water fulfills everything. For all demands . . . (indistinct) . . . make them do ''kirtan'', then eat till the stomach is full . . . all the water issue will be resolved . . . (indistinct) . . . example of . . . (indistinct) . . . ''acarya''.)

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda, I think it's time for you to go upstairs. Vrindavan, he has to take his meals in the evening or he may miss . . . (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . you try to become Vaiṣṇava. Keep it, whatever it may be. For the time being, you have got guarantee that your present position will never be disturbed. Is that all right?

'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Whatever he wants. If he becomes a Vaiṣṇava, then he'll only want Kṛṣṇa.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So you . . . for the time being, we have given guarantee they'll not be disturbed in your present position. Be satisfied. Do business. (break) (end)

760831 - Lecture Initiation - Delhi

2024-02-07T04:57:56Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"

[[Category:1976 - Lectures]]
[[Category:1976 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1976 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1976-08 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Lectures - India]]
[[Category:Lectures - India, Delhi]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Delhi]]
[[Category:Lectures - Initiations]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Hindi Snippets]]
[[Category:1976 - New Audio - Released in November 2013]]
[[Category:Audio Files 10.01 to 20.00 Minutes]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Lectures - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Lectures - by Date|Lectures by Date]], [[:Category:1976 - Lectures|1976]]'''</div>
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<div class="code">760831IN-DELHI - August 31, 1976 - 13.55 Minutes</div>

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1976/760831IN-DELHI_mono.mp3</mp3player>

'''Prabhupāda:''' They have got neckbeads?

'''Pradyumna:''' Everyone has their neckbeads? Yes. Bhakta Adira?

'''Devotee (1):''' Kṛṣṇa dāsa.

'''Prabhupāda:''' His family? (indistinct discussion)

'''Kṛṣṇa dāsa (child):''' ''Jaya'' Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Pradyumna:''' His name is Abhayāśraya.

'''Prabhupāda:''' To kya niyam hai? (So what is the principle?)

'''Adira:''' Char niyam hai. pehla hai maas, pyaaz-lehsun nahi, aur doosra hai chai, beedi, coffee nahi, aur teesra hai para stri aur chautha hai kisi prakar ka jua nahi. (The four principles are no meat eating, no onion or garlic. Second is no tea or coffee or smoking. Third is no illicit sex, and fourth is no form of gambling.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Abhayāśraya.

'''Devotees:''' ''Jaya''. (applause)

'''Pradyumna:''' Bhakta Allen?

'''Devotee (1):''' He's not present.

'''Pradyumna:''' Atmananda? Ātma-tattva dāsa.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Kya niyama hai? (What are the principles?)

'''Atmananda:''' No meat-eating, no intoxication, no illicit sex, no gambling.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Daant saaf nahi hai, acchi tarah se dhota nahi? (Your teeth are not clean, don't you wash them properly?) . . . (indistinct) . . . Ātmānanda dāsa.

'''Pradyumna:''' Ātma-tattva dāsa.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ātma-tattva dāsa.

'''Devotees:''' ''Jaya!''

'''Pradyumna:''' Lakshmana? Bhakta Lakshmana?

'''Devotee (1):''' Pay full obeisances.

'''Hari-śauri:''' ''Daṇḍavats''.

'''Devotee (1):''' Fall flat.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Kya niyama hai? (What are the principles?)

'''Lakshmana:''' Maas, pyaaz-lehsun nahi, aur doosra hai chai, beedi, coffee nahi, aur teesra hai para stri aur chautha hai kisi prakar ka jua nahi. (No meat, onion or garlic, and second is no tea, cigarettes, coffee, and third is no illicit sex and fourth is no form of gambling.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Theek bol raha hai? (Are you stating alright?)

'''Lakshmana:''' Ji. (Yes.)

'''Pradyumna:''' Lakṣmīśa dāsa.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Lakṣmīśa dāsa.

'''Devotee:''' Laksmīśvara.

'''Devotees:''' ''Jaya''.

'''Pradyumna:''' Robin?

'''Prabhupāda:''' While coming they should be careful not to touch feet anything. These people, they do not know. Especially . . .

'''Lokanātha:''' Aap jab yahan ate hain to koi cheez ko sparsh nahi hone chahiye, patta hai, kela hai. (Do not touch any of these things with your feet, there are leaves, banana.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' What are the rules and regulations?

'''Robin:''' No egg or fish, no meat-eating, no illicit sex, no intoxication and no gambling.

'''Pradyumna:''' Atīndra dāsa.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Atīndra dāsa.

'''Devotee:''' Atīndra dāsa.

'''Devotees:''' ''Jaya''.

'''Pradyumna:''' Roger?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Walk very carefully. You should come very carefully to get beads.

'''Lokanātha:''' Excuse me, ''prabhus''. I'll repeat one more time, do not touch any of these things. Be careful.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Not touch nor cross.

'''Lokanātha:''' Not even go over it. It is offensive. Please make a way.

'''Prabhupāda:''' What are the rules?

'''Roger:''' No intoxication, no meat-eating, no gambling, no illicit sex. Chant sixteen rounds daily.

'''Pradyumna:''' Revatī-kumāra.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Revatī-kumāra dāsa.

'''Devotee:''' Revatī-kumāra dāsa.

'''Devotees:''' ''Jaya''.

'''Pradyumna:''' Satyananda?

'''Lokanātha:''' Jor se kahiye namah om, jor se bolna chahiye, (''Namaḥ oṁ'' should be uttered loudly, you should say it loudly,) should be a vibration. Otherwise, ''Nectar of Devotion'' says it's offense.

'''Satyananda:'''Char niyam hain. maas, machli, anda se nishedh, doosra koi nasha nahi, chāya, coffee, cigarettes, bīḍī, gañja, teesra para stri sangh, chauth kisi prakar ka jua nahi. (There are four principles. Prohibition from meat, fish, eggs. Second is no intoxication like tea, coffee, cigarettes, drugs. Third is no illicit sex. Fourth is no gambling in any form.)

'''Pradyumna:''' Siddhārtha dāsa.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Siddhārtha dāsa.

'''Devotee:''' Siddhārtha dāsa.

'''Devotees:''' ''Jaya''.

'''Pradyumna:''' Dharma?

'''Lokanātha:''' Prabhupāda? These are his beads you were chanting on before.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No shaving?

'''Lokanātha:''' He's Tejiyas's man. I don't know. He is just a visitor, householder. He's in business.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's all right. Give him initiation . . . (indistinct Hindi)

'''Lokanātha:''' (indistinct) . . . initiation, he should do it first?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Lokanātha:''' I'll ask him.

'''Devotee:''' ''Jaya'', Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Nobody said to him? You did not know? Let him shave up. Then we shall . . . you should. You are introducing, you did not know? Then who has introduced?

'''Lokanātha:''' Tejiyas.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Tejiyas is not saying, and you also not detect? You should be very careful. If you remain ignorant, all ignorant, then where is progress? Everything ignorant I have to find out. So many big, big monkeys, nobody could find out. Big, big monkey, big, big belly. You also did not. That's all . . . who is next?

'''Pradyumna:''' Anyone else? That is all, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So?

Pradyuman: Baithiye. (Sit down.) (To vaishnavo ko ye janana chahiye ki . . . (So the Vaisnavas should know . . .) (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Because some of them, they could not follow Hindi.

'''Pradyumna:''' I'll just do it fast.

First ''nāma-aparādha'' is:

:''satāṁ ninda-namnaḥ param aparādham vitanute''
:''yataḥ khyātiṁ yātaṁ katham u sahate tad vigarhām''
:(Padma Purana)

The saints, the saintly persons who are spreading the glories of the holy name, if we abuse them, if we make offense at the people who are spreading the glories of the holy name, then the holy name will never tolerate that. How can the holy name tolerate the abuse of those who are spreading the glories of the holy name? So we must understand that a saintly person, a ''sādhu'', ''satām'', spreading the glories of Kṛṣṇa, talking about Kṛṣṇa, must never be offended. Must always be very careful. ''Sādhu-saṅga'' ([[CC Madhya 22.83|CC Madhya 22.83]]). You must know how to associate with the ''sādhus'', to always honor them and worship them and not to make offense. The second offense is that we should not put the . . . understand that the names of Śrī Kṛṣṇa or ''Viṣṇu-tattva'' personalities, which are completely spiritual, are the same as the material designations of ''jīvas'' like ourselves. There's ''Viṣṇu-tattva'', there is ''jīva''. ''Viṣṇu-tattva'' is God; ''jīva'' is this ordinary living entity. The name of the Supreme is the same as the Supreme. The name of the ''jīva'' is different from the ''jīva''. So we should not confuse these. We should understand the name of Viṣṇu is the same as Viṣṇu. The name of ''jīva'' is not the same. So the names of demigods—the demigods are also ''jīvas''—their names are not spiritual. If we call names of some demigods, it will not do us the same spiritual . . . it will not give us this spiritual result as calling the name of Kṛṣṇa.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Therefore during the time of initiation we change the name. A spiritual name is given. Go on.

'''Pradyumna:''' Because that spiritual name has . . . because the name of Kṛṣṇa, a name of Hari, has the spiritual potency; therefore we use the name of Hari as much as possible. Hari dāsa . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Dāsa. Not that name, but the name's servant. Dāsa. When one is named Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa dāsa, he is servant of Kṛṣṇa. Not that Kṛṣṇa. If he thinks, "I have become Kṛṣṇa," that is Māyāvāda. Kṛṣṇa dāsa. Go on.

'''Pradyumna:''' The next offense is ''guror avajñā'', to neglect or disrespect the orders of the spiritual master. Because the spiritual master is the external representation of the internal Kṛṣṇa, whatever the spiritual master says is to be taken as exactly what Kṛṣṇa's desire is. Kṛṣṇa is within all of us as Paramātmā, but because we cannot see Him, because He is ''adhokṣaja'', or above our senses, therefore that same Kṛṣṇa within appears without as the spiritual master, and he gives us instructions, and these are taken to be the same as Kṛṣṇa's instructions. So to disrespect the orders of the ''guru'' is not to make any progress on the spiritual path. ''Na gatiḥ kuto 'pi''. There can be no ''gatiḥ'', there can be no spiritual achievement without following the orders of the spiritual master, because the order of the spiritual master is the same as Kṛṣṇa's order. ''Śruti-śāstra-nindanam''. One should not make blasphemy the ''śruti'', which are the ''Vedas'', and ''śāstra'', the ''śāstras'' which follow the ''Vedas''. This is ''Mahābhārata'', the ''Purāṇas'', the ''itihāsa'', the ''smṛti''. ''Śruti-smṛti''. These are the two eyes. It is said the ''brāhmaṇa'' has two eyes: one is ''śruti'', one is ''smṛti''. So by these ''śāstras'' we can understand, because the ''śāstras'' are made by God, because they are emanating from God—therefore they are perfect. As Kṛṣṇa . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Not different. Not different from God.

'''Pradyumna:''' Because God is perfect, because Kṛṣṇa is perfect, therefore His words and His ideas are also perfect. So these ''śāstras'' are the words of God. So they are also perfect. So the ''śruti-śāstra-nindanam'' means to think that there may be something wrong in the scripture or to take one verse out of ''Bhagavad-gītā'' and reject another verse. Because it is all coming from Kṛṣṇa and is all-perfect, therefore everything is perfect within it. We must accept everything. We must accept it without any . . . as being without any fault. So ''śruti-śāstra-nindanam''. We should not think that it has any imperfection, that "This may be wrong." ''Śruti-śāstra-nindanam hari-nāmni kalpanam''. We should not think that the . . . should not speculate on the nature of the holy name.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Go on, next. ''Nāmnād balād pāpa-buddhiḥ''.

'''Pradyumna:''' ''Nāmnād balād pāpa-buddhir na tasya śuddhiḥ'', ''na tasya vidyate śuddhir yamaiḥ''. Of one who makes . . . the next offense is that . . . if by chanting the holy name one becomes relieved from all his past sinful reactions, so if one thinks that, "I will perform sinful activities. I'll have illicit sex, I'll eat meat, fish . . ." (break) (end)

771024 - Conversation - Vrndavana

2024-02-07T04:57:54Z

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760824 - Conversation B - Hyderabad

2024-02-07T04:57:52Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"

760831 - Morning Walk - Delhi

2024-02-07T04:57:51Z

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[[Category:1976 - Morning Walks]]
[[Category:1976 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1976 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1976-08 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Morning Walks - India]]
[[Category:Morning Walks - India, Delhi]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Delhi]]
[[Category:1976 - New Audio - Released in November 2013]]
[[Category:Audio Files 10.01 to 20.00 Minutes]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Hindi Snippets]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Morning Walks - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Morning Walks - by Date|Morning Walks by Date]], [[:Category:1976 - Morning Walks|1976]]'''</div>
{{RandomImage}}

<div class="code">760831MW-DELHI - August 31, 1976 - 17:18 Minutes</div>

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1976/760831MW-DELHI_mono.mp3</mp3player>

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ'' ([[BG 7.8 (1972)|BG 7.8]]): "I am the sunshine and moonshine." You cannot see sunshine and moonshine?

'''Indian man:''' But, sir, the sunshine is the ''hiraṇyagarbha''. That too is the product. That is material. There is something beyond the sunshine, sir.

'''Prabhupāda:''' For God there is nothing material. For God . . .

'''Indian man (2):''' I think that's what ''Īśopaniṣad'' says. ''Om īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam'' ([[ISO 1|ISO 1]]). So what is material?

'''Indian man (2):''' ''Yat kiñca jagatyāṁ jagat tena tyaktena bhuñjīthāḥ''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' If it is ''sarvam'', then what is material?

'''Indian man (2):''' ''Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthāḥ.''

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is another for you.

'''Indian man (2):''' (laughs) It's all right.

'''Children:''' This way! This way! This way! This way! This way!

'''Hari-śauri:''' This is it. The car's this way, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Indian man:''' Okay child.

'''Hari-śauri:''' Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . simply ''prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ.'' Why they cannot see? Here is ''prabhā'' of the ''sūrya''. Where is the difficulty to see? ''Prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ.'' (break) . . . this man thinks about death.

'''Indian man (3)''': Well, modernized man is mostly either afraid of the death or he doesn't know of the death.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Afraid of death, everyone. There is no doubt. Unless he's a madman.

'''Indian man (3)''': But then, er, I don't think anybody believes he will be afraid, even there is a change of birth or change of body.

'''Prabhupāda:''' They may say so, but actually they are. As soon as there is some signal of death they are very much disturbed.

'''Indian man (3)''': I don't think one should be afraid of death.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, afraid means . . .

'''Indian man (3)''': Because this is something which has to come.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is a fact. But nobody wants to die. That is a fact.

'''Indian man (3)''': But then you feel that . . . when you feel like living anything in the life, you feel after some time that he must have a change. So this is also . . . (break) . . . feel that this is a change.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That change he doesn't want.

'''Indian man (4):''' But modernized man is more busy in his own life. When only he gets into bad time then he thinks, "What is this?" But otherwise I think he has no time to think of these things.

'''Bhakta Robin:''' They think once you're dead, you're dead, and that is the end of it. They don't . . . they think, "We'll enjoy now and we shall die, and that's the finish." If you say to somebody, "Have you heard about reincarnation?" "I do not believe in this." Many people in the West cannot accept that the soul will transcend into another body, move on or move down. To them it's fantasy and humbug. This is why they are afraid. They are . . .

'''Indian man (3)''': This is same reincarnation. They think that he has gone. I won't be going, so I'll keep everything with me. We attend so many places where people die, and we think, "Oh, he is gone, but maybe I am not going to go."

'''Bhakta Robin:''' The ancient Egyptians used to put all their treasures . . .

'''Indian man (3)''': We don't understand that, "All right, this is the end." So why not we understand and think in that line? That day you said that by chanting he thinks that he's chanting, maybe other people don't chant. So they don't know that they have to go. They think they are going to survive here only. They don't want to accept that they have to go, I think.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That means they do not want death. That I have . . .

'''Indian man (3)''': Yes. But definitely others are going, and he won't go also.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That means he doesn't want to die. That is a concoction. Other side is that he doesn't want to die. It is the expression of the same sentiment in a different way.

'''Indian man (3)''': But then you see after the childhood and the young age, and when he becomes old, and after old also there is end, you know, when he becomes helpless to do anything. Then what is the use of having this body? Even your own relations, they'll feel that this is a burden. So at that time I think it's very good, that person himself should feel that all right, he must leave this body now. It's useless.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, he doesn't want.

'''Indian man (3)''': No, some people don't want. Or many people don't want. There are a few, I think maybe one in thousand.

'''Bhakta Robin:''' Does this mean, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we should not speculate about the future? Like if someone says: "Next year we should do this," and so forth. And "Next month we'll go here and we'll do that." And people are always making arrangements for the future and what they are going to do, with nothing in mind that death will take them within a flash. And they're making all these speculative arrangements.

'''Indian man (3)''': I personally feel that when you buy anything in the market, for example you buy a dress, sometimes it wears for ten years, sometimes you are cheated and it wears only for two years. So this is also same way, you know. Sometimes early death means . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is for the dress. What about the man who's using the dress?

'''Indian man (3)''': Well, he's again the same . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' You are identifying the dress with the man. That is foolishness. As soon as you say "dress," you should have to find out the man who has got the dress.

'''Indian man (3)''': Well this body is also a dress.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then it is perfect understanding. But if you understand the dress and the man the same, then you are foolish. Dress is not the man.

'''Indian man (3)''': No, dress is not the soul, but dress is again the body.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Dress is the body. ''Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya'' ([[BG 2.22 (1972)|BG 2.22]]). That is explained. This body is just like dress. So, but the dress is different from the man who puts on the dress.

'''Indian man (3)''': Well, that is different. Man is different.

'''Prabhupāda:''' The dress, it becomes old, and it will be changed. That's all.

'''Indian man (3)''': But dress is the body. Dress is the body.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Bhakta Robin:''' We have to put up with so much pain for it. You see, we're not this body, and to forget that we're not this body, but still every minute we're given pain to remember that this body is there.

'''Prabhupāda:''' What is that?

'''Bhakta Robin:''' You stub your toe, and it gives so much pain just for something so small.

'''Prabhupāda:''' What you are eating?

(pause)

'''Prabhupāda:''' So water is wasted.

'''Hari-śauri:''' Yes, it's dripping still.

'''Indian man (3)''': Tap must not be working. (break)

'''Bhakta Robin:''' . . . so the front is always full of water for people, birds to take. But all the water is dripping over the side, and it's being wasted on the ground. (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' (referring to ''bhel purīs'') Rādhā-vallabhi. It is offered to Rādhā-vallabha.

'''Hari-śauri:''' What's that made from, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

'''Prabhupāda:''' There's a kind of ''purī'' with some filling, ''dāl''.

'''Hari-śauri:''' Ah, ''kachorī''?

'''Prabhupāda:''' It is not ''kachorī''.

'''Bhakta Robin:''' Prabhupāda, you've taught so . . . (break) . . . instruction for cooking this ''prasādam''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' I have seen. I have seen. In our family, I know. That's all. But from my childhood it is my nature, if somebody is preparing, I see it.

'''Bhakta Robin:''' It seems to me that most people in India can cook something. Even if there's just ''cāpāṭis'' they can do this. But people in the West now are so helpless. They buy everything, it seems, in packets, and you would not know how to prepare any food as much as just to cut the packet and pour it out, and even then they don't even know how to put water into the pan.

'''Prabhupāda:''' They do not know how to eat on the whole. India knows how to eat.

(pause)

'''Prabhupāda:''' I have traveled all over the world, and this is my experience. Nobody knows how to eat.

'''Bhakta Robin:''' Nowhere at all, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Only India. (break) . . . every province they have got different dishes. Because the woman, they are trained up how to cook very nice.

'''Bhakta Robin:''' I even see these boys, when I was in Chandigarh, in a dish next door to the temple we were starting there.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Woman is meant for that purpose, how to make nice, palatable dishes.

'''Bhakta Robin:''' Just these young boys who were carrying the bricks every morning, they would prepare their own vegetables and ''cāpāṭis'' like this, and I was amazed to see this, because you would never get anyone doing this . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Jaya''. In Bengal there is a ceremony after marriage, ''bahu-bhāta''. The newly married girl, she shall cook, and all the relatives, friends, are invited, and they appreciate, "Yes, nice cook." Then she is accepted as member of the whole family. ''Bahu-bhāta''.

'''Bhakta Robin:''' And if not, Prabhupāda? If her cooking is not . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Therefore she is trained up.

'''Bhakta Robin:''' And if she's not trained up?

'''Prabhupāda:''' She must be trained up. Just like Rādhārāṇī, She was trained up in sixty-four arts.

'''Bhakta Robin:''' Sixty-four arts.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Do you think to captivate Kṛṣṇa is easy thing? How much qualified She must have been so that Kṛṣṇa was attracted. (loud laughing in background) What is this?

'''Indian man (3)''': Laughing is also exercise.

'''Bhakta Robin:''' Standing in a ring.

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Indian man (3)''': Exercise they are doing. To laugh loudly, you know that is also exercise.

'''Bhakta Robin:''' It's a form of ''prāṇāyāma''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Bhakta Robin:''' A form of ''prāṇāyāma'', breathing. The scientists, or doctors, say it takes so many muscles in the body to laugh and so many to frown, and it takes less to laugh. So they say why waste energy? Everyone should laugh instead of frowning all the time, and be happy. (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . Ninth Canto, I shall take up Eleventh and Twelfth.

'''Bhakta Robin:''' Someone was explaining about these Cantos, that you start with like the feet from Kṛṣṇa, and as you read through the Cantos you slowly move up the body of Kṛṣṇa, and the Twelfth Canto is the . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Head.

'''Bhakta Robin:''' . . . is His head. The Twelfth Canto must be a really beautiful book, too.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Vrndavana me mandir hai, aiiye sab. kal ja rahe hain. (In Vṛndāvana there is a temple, you all should come. I am going tomorrow.)

'''Indian:''' Aaj shaam ko yahan discourse hoga. kitna baje? (Today in the evening there is a discourse here. What time?) (end)

740129 - Arrival - Tokyo

2024-02-07T04:57:49Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"

[[Category:1974 - Conversations]]
[[Category:1974 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1974 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1974-01 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Conversations - Asia]]
[[Category:Conversations - Asia, Japan - Tokyo]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - Asia]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - Asia, Japan - Tokyo]]
[[Category:Arrival and Departure Talks]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Bengali Snippets]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Hindi Snippets]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with both Bengali and Hindi Snippets]]
[[Category:Audio Files 45.01 to 60.00 Minutes]]
[[Category:1974 - New Audio - Released in October 2014]]
[[Category:1974 - New Transcriptions - Released in October 2014]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Conversations - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Conversations - by Date|Conversations by Date]], [[:Category:1974 - Conversations|1974]]'''</div>
{{RandomImage}}


<div class="center">[[Vanipedia:740129 Lecture - Srila Prabhupada Speaks a Nectar Drop in Tokyo|'''  <big>Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this lecture'''</big>]]</div>


<div class="code">740129AR-TOKYO - January 29, 1974 - 50:33 Minutes</div>

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1974/740129AR-TOKYO.mp3</mp3player>

'''Prabhupāda:''' The government export, then import . . . karne to deta nahi (. . . is not allowed.)

'''Indian Man:''' Kidhar? (Where?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' India me. (To India.)

'''Indian Man:''' Nahi, India me nahi. Europe me. (No, not to India. They give permission for Europe.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ācchā. (Okay.)

'''Indian Man:''' Europe. Middle East.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yaha se purchase karte hai . . . Europe me apka office hai. (After purchasing from here . . . do you have an office in Europe?)

'''Indian Man:''' Nahi. Client hai. (No. I have clients over there.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. (pause) Next have ''sankirtan''.

Have ''kīrtana''. (''kīrtana'') (chants ''prema-dhvani'')

(Japanese translation throughout)

The child is responsive. The child is responsive.

'''Devotee:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' (laughs) He was seeing this playing of ''mṛdaṅga''. How old?

'''Devotee:''' He's five months, Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Five months. So these Japanese boys, they cannot understand English?

'''Devotee:''' No, but if you would like to say something, either ''Mahā-guṇa'' or ''Vana'' can translate. They would like to hear you speak.

'''Prabhupāda:''' (devotee translating into Japanese throughout) When I was coming to this temple, I saw Japanese people are very industrious. Industrialism means, ''karma'', and ''karma'' means, to work hard for the comfort of this body, but we are not this body, we are spirit soul within this body. As it is stated in the ''Bhagavad-gītā'': ''dehino 'smin yathā dehe'' ([[BG 2.13 (1972)|BG 2.13]]). The real owner of the body is within this.

So, so long our mind will be absorbed in the bodily concept of life, we have to accept another body after death. And to accept another body means great trouble. Just like this child, when he was within the womb of the mother for ten months, packed up . . . of course, by nature's arrangement one can live, but actually it is very troublesome. Then after coming out of the body, the child is helpless. He cannot express these troubles—sometimes cry. If mother is careful, takes care—otherwise he is in great trouble. Suppose some ant is biting, he cannot express; he cries simply, and mother also cannot detect why the child is crying. This is position. In this way, again growing up, no child wants to go to the school—he is forced to go to the school. Then when he is grown up, again family man to take responsibility of family.

So the whole life is struggle for existence, then old age, so many disease, frustration, then again death. Again death means, again enter into the mother's womb, again packed up, again come out, and that is also not sure what kind of body he is going to get next. There are 8,400,000 forms of bodies, and we can get any one of them. So this change of body is not very good job, but people do not know the science. They are ignorant of this transmigration of the soul, and they are working hard, dying, again taking birth—not as human being; maybe human being or more than human being, or cats and dogs, trees, there's so many. So this is our real problem. In ignorance, we accept one kind of body and stay for some time, again we are kicked out—no permanent situation. In this way, we are under threefold miserable conditions offered by the material nature.

So, people are not concerned about the solution of this problem, they are so foolish rascal. There is no education, there is no enlightenment about this transmigration of the soul from one body to another, and suffering, and they are thinking they are very happy. But from ''Bhagavad-gītā'' we understand we can get relief from this repetition of birth and death. ''Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya'' ([[BG 4.9 (1972)|BG 4.9]]). Kṛṣṇa says, ''janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ'' ([[BG 4.9 (1972)|BG 4.9]]): anyone who can understand Kṛṣṇa, the result will be ''na iti'', "No more taking birth in the material world" ''mām eti'', "He comes back to Me."

So this is the solution. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching people, how to make a solution of this repetition of birth and death and go back to home, back to Godhead. So why people are reluctant to take this movement very seriously? Any question? Hmm. You don't want to make a solution of this problem? Yes, they are . . . have become so dull, just like animals, they do not know what is the solution of the problem . . . (indistinct)

:''yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke''
:''sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ''
:''yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij''
:''janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ''
:([[SB 10.84.13|SB 10.84.13]])

If a person, human being, does not take very seriously this problems of life, he is just like animal, ''go-kharaḥ''. ''Go'' means "cow," and ''kharaḥ'' means "ass." So those who are not interested, to make a solution of the problems of life, he is no better than an animal, ''go-kharaḥ''.

So this is a civilization of animal education—whole day working like ass. Ass is called ''mūḍhā''. ''Mūḍhā'', he works very hard, a big load of washerman's cloth is laden on his back, and he works, and the washerman gives little grass. He thinks, "He is giving me grass, therefore I must bear this load." He is such a fool that he does not know the grass is available anywhere, free of charges, but he thinks that, "This washerman is giving me grass," therefore he must have this load. Therefore ass is the most foolish animal. Amongst the animals, the most foolish animal.

So we are trying to enlighten people to get them out from this foolish way of life. But, it is very difficult. ''Māyā'' is very strong. But still we have to try, because Kṛṣṇa Himself comes to enlighten people on this point, and we are supposed to be servant of Kṛṣṇa, so it is our duty to try to enlighten people. But people also should know the responsibility of human life, but they want to live like animals. So you want to live like this, or wish to go back to home, back to Godhead? Like animal, ass. (laughs)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Boliye apka kya ray hai? Ap to Bharatiya hai. Ap ko to Bharatiya . . . Vedic knowledge to thoda malum hona chahiye. Ye jitne sab hai, wo itna parishram karte hai. To shastra kehte hai, ye sab gadhe hai. Aur hai bhi gadhe. Gadha ke jaisa parishram karte hai aur thoda do roti ke liye. Khane ke liye kutta bhedi ko bhi milta hai aur wo bhi wahi khate hai. Baki itna parishram karte hai aur apna jo manushya jivan ka jo kaam hai, wo kuch nahi hota. (So, what is your opinion? You are an Indian, you should have some knowledge of the ''Vedas''. All these people work so hard. As per the scriptures, these people are like asses. And that is quite true. They work hard like donkeys for two pieces of bread which can be obtained so easily even by dogs and sheep. They toil so much that the real business of human life remains neglected forever.)

So the Japanese boys, they have understood? Eh? You have understood? The difficulty is they cannot speak English, I cannot speak Japanese. (laughs) The difficulty is there. Anyway, you are supplying them ''prasādam''. Go on doing that one day, they will also come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ap log roj aate hai, nahi? (Do all of you come everyday or not?)

'''Indian Man:''' Sunday.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sunday. Today is . . .?

'''Devotee:''' Today is Tuesday.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Tuesday. Apka kya bal baccha hai? Bal bacche . . . (Do you have any children? Children . . .)

'''Indian Man:''' Bal bacche nahi . . . (I don't have children . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Nahi. Apka patni, bhabhi? (None. Is she your wife or sister-in-law?)

'''Indian Man:''' Mere bhai ki . . . (My brother's . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' India se aye hai? Kaha? (Has she come from India? Where?)

'''Indian Lady:''' Nahi. Osaka me rehte hai. (No. I'm staying in Osaka.) Osaka.

'''Devotee:''' Osaka is another city.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Osaka. Oh. Osaka. Ap log Punjabi ho? (Do you belong to the Punjabi community?)

'''Indian Lady:''' Nahi. Bhatia hai. (No. We are Bhatia.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Bhatia? Gujarati?

'''Indian Lady:''' Karachi.

'''Indian Man:''' Karachi.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Karachi.

'''Indian Lady:''' Sindhi Bhatia.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sindhi?

'''Indian Lady:''' Abhi to hum Bombay me rehte hai. (Currently we are staying in Bombay.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Bombay me Sindhi bahut hai. (There are many Sindhis in Bombay.)

'''Indian Lady:''' Ji. Humare Bhatia sab . . . Sripad Vallabhacharya hai na, unke marg ke hai. (Oh yes. All our Bhatia . . . you know Sripad Vallabhacharya, we are from that path.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Achha! Tab to ap log Vaishnav ho. (Great. Then you people are Vaiṣṇavas.)

'''Indian Lady:''' Ji. Krishna ke hi puja me hai. (Yes. We are Vaiṣṇavas. We worship Lord Kṛṣṇa only.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. Tabhi to aate hai na. (That is the reason why you come here.)

'''Indian Lady:''' Shrinathji jate hai. (We go to Srinathji as well.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Achha. Srinath Gopal ji jo hai wo hum log ka, Gaudiya Vaishnav. Wo Madhavendra Puri . . . wo apka ye jo Vallabhacharya, wo Vishnu Swami sampradaya. Vaishnav log char sampradaya hai. Hum log hai Madhva sampradaya. Wo Madhavendra Puri ko de diya. Wo Gopal ji humara sampradaya, Gaudiya sampradaya. (Okay. Srinath Gopal Ji belongs to our lineage, Gaudiya Vaiṣṇava. It was Madhavendra Puri . . . Vallabhacharya , from the disciplic succession of Visnu Swami. Vaishnavas have four disciplic lineages or ''sampradayas''. Our's is Madhva sampradaya. Madhavendra Puri gave it to him. So Gopal Ji was from our ''sampradaya'', Gaudiya ''sampradaya''.)

'''Indian Lady:''' Chote Gopal ji, Srinath ji ke paas me. (The small Gopal Ji who is kept near Srinath-ji.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. Nahi, wo Nathdwara, wo to bada Gopal. (No, the big Gopal Ji in Nathdwara.)

'''Indian Lady:''' Nahi. Chote. Srimad Vallabhacharya jinki puja karte the na. (No. The small one whom Srimad Vallabhacharya used to worship.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh! Wo wala. (That one.)

'''Indian Lady:''' Unka chota Gopal tha. (He had a small Deity of Gopal.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Wo wala. (That one. Bal Gopal.)

'''Indian Lady:''' Ji. (Yes.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Aur ye Nathdwara me jo Gopal ji hai, wo to bada Gopal hai. (And the Gopal Ji in Nathdwara is the bigger one.)

'''Indian Lady:''' Ji. (Yes, yes.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Wo Gopal ji Bhagavan Krishna ka jo pota, Bajra . . . unki pratisthit. Phir kuch kuch din baad, kuch gadbad hua to mandir tut gaya tha, Gopal ji jangal me kahi. Phir sapna dete hai, Madhavendra Puri se phir uthaya aur mandir sthapan kiya Govardhan me. Aur unke antim kal me ye Vallabhacharya ko de diya. Wahi Nathdwara. (The Gopal Ji of Nathdwara was installed by Vajranabh, the grandson of Lord Krsna. A few days later, there was some trouble and the temple was destroyed. Gopal Ji was lying in a jungle. Madhavendra Puri, after having a dream, again rescued Gopal from there and installed Him in a temple at Govardhan. And in the final days of his life he had given it to Vallabhacharya. That is Nathdwara.)

'''Indian Lady:''' Hmm.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ap log kitne hai sab Bharatiya idhar? (How many Indians are here all together?)

'''Indian Man:''' Japan me? Karib teen char hazar. (In Japan? Around three to four thousand.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Char hazar. Kaise idhar to koi Bhagavan ka mandir hai hi nahi. (Four thousand? But there is no temple of the Lord anywhere.)

'''Indian Man:''' Tokyo me nahi hai lekin Osaka, Kobe me hai. (There is no temple in Tokyo but in Kobe and Osaka, temples are there.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Kobe me hai? (Is there a temple in Kobe?)

'''Indian Man:''' Kobe me hai. Gurudwara hai aur Ramakrishna mission ka bhi . . . (Yes, a temple is there in Kobe. Gurudwara is there and Ramkrishna mission also . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

'''Indian Man:''' Ramkrishna mission.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ramakrishna mission kya hai? (laughter) Nastik hai. (It does not matter much, Ramkrishna mission (laughter). They are atheists.)

'''Indian Man:''' Bas wahi do hai. (Only those two are there.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Wo to Hindu hi hai nahi. Ye log to Hindu hi hai nahi, Vaishnav to . . . Hindu ka baat nahi hai. Wo Krishna bhakt nahi hai. Idhar ek Krishna Bhagavan ka mandir banao. (These people are not even Hindus, forget about being a Vaiṣṇava. It is not a question of being Hindu. They are not devotees of Lord Krsna. So, build a temple here for the Supreme Lord Sri Kṛṣṇa.)

'''Indian Lady:''' Wo to Devi ke upasaka hai, Ramakrishna mission. (They are worshippers of the Goddess, the Ramkrishna mission.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Devi ke ho, Devata ho, jo bhi ho, Bhagavan ka hona chahiye. (You may be followers of different demigods and demi-goddesses but we should be followers of the Supreme Lord.)

'''Indian lady:''' Ji ha. (Yes.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ramakrishna Mission na Devi ka, na Deva ka, wo apna pet ka hai bas. Sab kuch khate hai, sab kuch pite hai. (Ramakrishna Mission people are neither followers of any demigod or demi-goddess, they are followers of their stomach. They eat everything, drink everything.)

'''Indian Lady:''' Ji. (Yes.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ye Hindu dharma ka nash kar rahe hai. (They are destroying the Hindu religion.)

'''Indian Lady:''' Hmm.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ap log idhar sab vaishnav banaiye. (You make everyone into a Vaiṣṇava here.)

'''Indian Lady:''' Hum bhi to vaishnav hai. (We all are Vaiṣṇavas.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ha. Ye log janam se sab mamsa khane wala hai. (Yes. These people were meat eaters by birth.)

'''Indian Lady:''' Ji. (Yes Sir.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Lekin sab chodh diya. Janam se. Sharab chodh diya, nasha bhang chodh diya, cha bhi nahi pite. Hum log bidi, cigarette, chay kuch nahi. Ap to jante hai. Sab jante hai, sari duniya. Aur wo sab khate hai, mamsa, machli, chay, bidi, sharab aur sab bhi, wo kehne ko nahi kuch, sab kuch. Bada jabardast Ramakrishna mission chalate hai. Kya ap log nahi jante? (But now they have given up completely. Since their birth . . . they have left drinking alcohol, any type of intoxicants and even tea. We don't take tobacco, cigarettes, tea . . . nothing. You know this. Everyone knows this all over the world. But they consume everything - meat, fish, tea, tobacco, alcohol and what not. Not even mentionable, everything. What great work they are doing, this Ramakrishna Mission! Didn't you know about this?)

'''Indian Man:''' Jante hai. (We knew.)

'''Indian Lady:''' Jante hai. (We knew.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sab koi jante hai. So . . . (Everyone knows this. So . . .)

'''Indian Lady:''' Lekin kya ye bachpan se wo log aisa life ji rahe hai . . . (But the thing is since childhood they are following such a lifestyle so . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Kya life me hai, mamsa machli khate hai, kya life? (laughter) Mussulman ka life. Mamsa machli khane wala uska kya life hai. (What lifestyle is this, eating meat and fish, what type of life is this? (laughter) The life of muslims. What life can a person have who eats meat and fish?) Kadaryo bhakhhon kore. (One eats so many dirty things.) A bengali poet . . . nana yoni bhraman kare, Kadaryo bhakhhan kare. Ye mamsa machli khane se kadaryo chiz hai . . . ye log khate nahi. Pashu ka hai to. Ye admi ka nahi. Isko humare shastra me yavana kehte hai. Rakshas kehte hai. Mamsa machli . . . mamsa kaun khata hai, wo kutta khata hai, sher, tiger . . . ye sab jungli log khate hai. Usse kya fayda milega. Tiger ka sharir bada mazboot hota hai. Usse manushya samaj ko kya fayda hoga. Aur ye jo gai hai, wo to mamsa machli nahi khati, uska dudh bina kaam hi nahi chalega. Usko to kat daal te hai. Kya kiya jaye? (One wanders through all the species and eats abominable things. This eating of meat and fish is ''kadaryo'', a dirty thing. Humans do not eat such things. It is for animals, not for human beings. Such people are called ''yavanas'' in our scriptures. They are termed as ''rakshasas''. Meat and fish . . . who eats meat? The dogs, lions, tigers . . . all uncivilized men eat such things. What benefit will they get? The tiger's body is very strong. But what benefit can human society have from that? And you see the cow is there, she doesn't eat fish or meat but without her milk, we cannot continue. Now, they are slaughtering her. What can be done?)

'''Indian Lady:''' Humare jo vaishnav sampradaya ke hai, to abhi abhi jo bhi bahar gaye, sab ne khana shuru kar diya. (In our Vaiṣṇava ''sampradaya'' at present, those who are living outside, they have all started eating meat.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' To ho gaya. Jahannum me jayega, aur kya? (laughter) Jahannum me gaya, aur kya? Vaishnav kya . . . sabhi hum London me dekha, jitna Bharatiya hai sab mamsa khate hai. Aur go mamsa bhi khate hai . . . (indistinct) . . . ye uchit nahi hai. Bhagavan ka prasad . . . idhar ap log prasad khate hai kya? (Then it's over. They will go to hell, what to do. (laughter) They are destined to go to hell. And all the Vaiṣṇavas . . . I have seen in London, all the Indians have started eating meat. They are even eating beef . . . (indistinct) . . . this should not have been done. ''Prasadam'' of the Lord . . . do you take ''prasadam'' here?)

'''Indian Lady:''' Ha, ha. Hum kuch bhi nahi khate. Pyaz, lehsun, kuch nahi. (Yes, yes. We don't take anything, no onion, no garlic . . . nothing.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Thik. (That's right.)

'''Indian Lady:''' Anda bhi nahi. Kuch nahi. Pyaz bhi nahi khate. Humare ghar ke mard pite bhi nahi hai wo to . . . cigarette wagera (laughter) . . . (We don't eat eggs either. Nothing, not even onions. The men in our family don't even smoke cigarettes etc. (laughter) . . .)

So have kīrtana once more. Ap kitne din yaha rahenge? (How many days will you be staying here?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Kal chale jayenge. (I will go tomorrow.)

'''Indian Lady:''' Kal jayenge . . . (Oh you will go tomorrow . . .)

(''kīrtana'') (chants ''prema-dhvani'')

'''Prabhupāda:''' Bahut bhagyavan baccha hai ye. (This child is very fortunate.)

'''Indian Lady:''' Ha. Kaise . . . (Yes. How he was . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Shuru se nachna . . . (He began dancing from the very beginning . . .)

'''Indian Lady:''' . . . nachna shuru karta hai (. . . began to dance.) (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

'''Devotee:''' (devotees offer obeisances) So there is ''prasādam'' for everyone.

'''Devotees:''' All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)

770103 - Conversation B - Bombay

2024-02-07T04:57:49Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"

[[Category:1977 - Conversations]]
[[Category:1977 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1977 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1977-01 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Conversations - India]]
[[Category:Conversations - India, Bombay]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Bombay]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Hindi Snippets]]
[[Category:Audio Files 30.01 to 45.00 Minutes]]
[[Category:1977 - New Audio - Released in July 2012]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Conversations - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Conversations - by Date|Conversations by Date]], [[:Category:1977 - Conversations|1977]]'''</div>
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<div class="center">[[Vanipedia:770103 - Conversation B - Srila Prabhupada Speaks a Nectar Drop in Bombay|'''  <big>Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this lecture'''</big>]]</div>


<div class="code">770103R2.BOMBAY - January 03, 1977 - 38:49 Minutes</div>

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1977/770103R2-BOMBAY.mp3</mp3player>

'''Prabhupāda:''' Why should be checked? This is the point.

'''Girirāja:''' Yes. I don't think that the court will decide against us.

'''Prabhupāda:''' If they decide that, there are many other court judgments in our favor. Then we must adopt civil disobedience. There is no other, second way. "Capriciously you cannot impose anything against the law, against the judgment. If you do, then we shall also disobey." That should be the last resolve.

'''Hari-śauri:''' I remember when we were first beginning in Melbourne, we were harassed very tremendously by the Council.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, I know that.

'''Hari-śauri:''' And they were putting us in jail and everything. And actually every court decision was against us too. But somehow or another, we just went out on ''saṅkīrtana'' every day, distributing. We were getting booked, then fined. Then we wouldn't pay the fines, so they would come and they would raid the temple at two o'clock in the morning and try and take us away to jail. And . . . it went on for months. And then in the end we had . . . there was so much publicity about it . . . when we went to jail we were fasting. So there was so much publicity that the Council became very embarrassed that they couldn't get rid of these boys and girls. They became so embarrassed that they stopped their harassment, and we carried on with our ''saṅkīrtana'' activities. So actually, if we just determine just to stick with it, then there's nothing they can do. What can they do to us unless they kill us? I don't think they can do that.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So your wife came.

'''Devotee:''' Oh, yes. (break)

'''Prabhupāda:''' This is Indian attitude. They do not care for the modern, civilized way of life, wasting time reading some nonsense book or going to the bars, the cinema, talking unnecessarily. They do not like. Those who are old style, they do not.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' No, I know many women who are very good cooks. I have tasted it . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' They have no time to waste time in that way. They must be inclined that "I must prepare something nice so that my husband, my children or my, all friends will be very pleased." That is their policy. I wanted that all our girls, they should be expert. And in America they are doing that. They should learn the art of cooking and prepare very nice foodstuff, daily change of menu. And the children should be so trained up that no more birth. And that is life. They can produce hundreds of children, it doesn't matter, but must be responsible that, "These children should be saved. This is the last birth; no more birth. I'll train the child in such a way that next life he's going to Kṛṣṇa, back to home, back to Godhead." That is parents' duty. Otherwise they should not become parent. That is contraceptive: "I am not fit to train my children in that way, so I shall not produce cats and dogs." This is life. Why shall I produce cats and dogs? And Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was gṛhastha; he produced Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. That is wanted. So in this way, if there is ideal institution, ideal mode of living, it is happy; everything is all right. That is ''gṛhastha''. Produce Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that "If I can produce ''kṛṣṇa-bhakta'' as children, then I'm prepared to marry and produce hundreds of children." And if we cannot, then we shall not produce even one children. Just like Vasudeva and Devakī in their previous life . . . what was the name? Their determination is, "If we can get a child like God, then we shall produce. Otherwise we go on, ''tapasya''." And when Kṛṣṇa came, "What do you want?" "I want You." "Who is like Me? I shall appear." Anyway, we have got such huge establishment. Utilize it very properly, everywhere. Another thing, that in Vṛndāvana . . . you remember the corner land, Parikra-arasta?

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Ah, yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is available by acquirement.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' The corner land to the left? Left of Gurukula? Or . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, Gurukula . . . when we go to the ''chuni'', in front of . . .

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Ha, ha, ha. In that direction.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. That is agricultural land.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Right opposite.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Hari-śauri:''' Where that gate is.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Right before the gate. That is . . . I was under the impression that belonged to some Christian man.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no, no. That is first.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' That is further.

'''Prabhupāda:''' After crossing the road, the corner.

'''Hari-śauri:''' Where the ''parikrama'' path is.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' That is available for . . .?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Actually, that would be good if we get that. It's right next to our temple.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So why not try for that? You can get it, I am sure.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Okay. I'm going to Vṛndāvana in ten days.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So if we can get that land, then we can divert our sewer in the land and utilize it for nice agricultural purposes. So instead of spending ''lakh'' of rupees for Municipality, why not acquire that land?

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Acquire, or buy? Acquire.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Acquire means you have to pay, but government . . .

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes, but acquire usually takes a long time.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Not long time. They'll give us, because it is lying vacant.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' On the sewage problem in Vṛndāvana, we'll have to make . . . do something quickly, because even the Gurukula will not be able to open till we can . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' So you can do it immediately. But go on, purchase. It is lying vacant.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Okay, that's a very good idea. But we'll still have to put a pipe underground coming out.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is not much. A few yards only. And then introduce it and distribute that water, the whole land, and you will get good agricultural produce, very good. You can have very good business.

'''Hari-śauri:''' That can be used for agriculture?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, yes. Oh, yes. This water is very valuable for agricultural purpose. Nature has made in such a way. Aiye. All rejected water, you can utilize for agriculture.

'''Hari-śauri:''' I think in the West they have a law that says you can't use human sewage.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Kick out the West. (laughter) We are doing here, in India. The Municipality is doing that also in Vṛndāvana. Everywhere it is. In Calcutta there is called ''dhāpāra māṭha. Dhāpāra māṭha'' . . . formerly, anything produced in ''dhāpāra māṭha'', that was not used for Deity. The superstition, that "These vegetables are grown in filthy water, nasty . . ." But the vegetables were . . . cauliflower, so big, so big. Everything, very luxuriantly, very tasteful and solid and big. ''Dhāpāra māṭhera'' (cauliflower). Yes. In Bengal, generally, the land is very fertile to produce vegetables. But this, the more the filthy things of the city were thrown there, and the cultivator used to grow very nice. That is utilization of this filthy water, where there was sewer ditches formerly. In the village they diverted from the water in the field, and they got good crops. Generally they pass stool in the field. The cow's, cow dung and man's stool and everyone's stool, they are wrapped together in the rainy season. It became fertile . . . (indistinct)

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' We will try for that land.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Immediately. That is . . . that will be proper utilization. And in the court, unless they arrange for this dirty water out, why shall I pay tax? We shall stick to this position.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' We are sticking to it. The only harm to us is our Gurukula is going to get delayed now, the opening.

'''Prabhupāda:''' But in the meantime you . . .

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes. And also we are running out of time, because we can't let water accumulate, I mean, the way it is.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So why you can't? We have purchased that land. They have to . . .

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes, that is . . . we have to try for that now.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. That means . . . we have purchased that land. By force you can drive out? We are trying for that. Go to the court, "We have regularly purchased that land. What can be done? The Municipality is not doing anything." We have to fight like that.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes, we are fighting, I mean . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Why you should be afraid?

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' No. I, what I mean is the water . . . we're having all that trouble with the man in the back.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That I am speaking, that he is trouble. Why he should be giving us trouble? We purchased it. Take land; take money. And we have purchased the land for this purpose. We are doing other arrangement; that is our mercy. But even that land . . . the Municipality is obliged.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes, they are.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Otherwise we can throw the water on the street. That is Municipal's duty. Otherwise, why shall I pay tax? We shall do everything, we shall pay tax, and we shall suffer? What is this?

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' We're not paying tax. We are fighting it in the court.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So in this way we have to fight. We should not be afraid for these rascals. Why you should be afraid? If they take to ''guṇḍā-ism'', we shall engage fifty ''guṇḍās'', "Come on. Let us see." We have to maintain that spirit. ''Anaye yei kare prabhu anaye yei sahe''. The Rabindranath Tagore's one poetry, "One who does wrong and suffers wrong, he is wrong." One should not do anything wrong; one should not suffer anything wrong. That is human. If somebody does harm to me, wrong to me, I cannot suffer it. I shall not do any harm to anyone. That's all right. But if you want to give me suffering, I must fight you. Why shall I suffer it? That is ''kṣatriya'' spirit. ''Yuddhe cāpy apalayanam'' ([[BG 18.43 (1972)|BG 18.43]]). "If you are challenging, 'All right, come on,' I accept this challenge." We have to do like that. Now, this ''bāniyā spirit'' . . . our Bhagatji, he purchased that land, and he's afraid of him. What is this? ''Bāniyā spirit''. But you are ''kṣatriya''.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' (laughs) He has to . . . I'm not there all the time. They come to his house to . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, you argue with weapon. Beat them. We shall see. Go to the police that, "This is nonsense."

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yeah, we've done that.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So how is that?

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' At the present moment he's okay; he's quiet.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, we should beat them. If somebody, ''ātatāyī'' . . . "You unnecessarily attack me, I must first kill you. That is my duty." Just like you have done here, '''Setterji:''' "I'll bring my revolver." So that is ''argumentum baculum''. Here they wanted to put us into trouble, and he was in great trouble. So he came, he stood: "All right, come on. We shall fight. Bring my revolver." He did that. So we have to do like that. Why shall I tolerate unnecessary injustice? Take that spirit. And in meantime, apply. That is the solution. Why shall I spend for them? And unless they arrange for the sewer lines, we're not going to pay tax.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' No, that's our position.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Let us go on, one court after another, one court after . . . if there is fight, we must be prepared to fight . . . (indistinct) . . . if required, take Setterji. He'll help.

'''Setterji:''' Girirāja . . . (indistinct)

'''Girirāja:''' He's very heroic. He was very heroic.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. He is ''kṣatriya''. Aap log toh kshariya? kshatri? (Aren't you people kṣatriya? Kṣatri?) You take him.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Okay.

'''Setterji:''' In the Pakistan time, I fight forty, fifty men.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. That is ''kṣatriya'' spirit. If you want to fight . . .

'''Setterji:''' Yes, always.

'''Prabhupāda:''' You killed? (laughter)

'''Setterji:''' Yes! So many times. So many times.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So you have got experience. Huh?

'''Setterji:''' Sometimes, I have walked on the dead bodies.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Ācchā''. So many dead bodies.

'''Setterji:''' I have seen about four men at the Pathan border, and the . . . one, this Korabhari, this ''ṭāṅgā'', Victoria, came with six Muslims. And they challenged us, very . . . "We will kill you." We said: "Yes, come. You kill us, we will kill you. We fight." We were ready at that time, because revolver was there and the Kurari, Kundasa was there. One, my friend, he was from Gujrawala. He showed this Kundasa, and his head cut out, and he was running . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Ācchā''. Still running?

'''Setterji:''' Running! In ''Mahābhārata'' I was heard that body was running. But actually I have seen at that time. Head was cut, and the body was running.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Just see. (laughter) And then he fell down.

'''Setterji:''' Then he fell down. And of that, the other men went.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That, how he was running with his mind, just see.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' With his mind.

'''Hari-śauri:''' The mind is in the heart.

'''Setterji:''' And we have saved all the fellows, because . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' That, these rascals, they do not know . . .

'''Setterji:''' Because if they first, they put us, then our men will do it. So we do first.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Killing.

'''Setterji:''' Yes. And the one man get out from the ''ṭāṅgā'', who first cut out his head. Then . . . and all the others ran out. Otherwise . . . (indistinct) . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Calcutta me wo sab musilman ko . . . (indistinct) . . . kali ji ka mandir me sab bali daan diya . . . (indistinct). Ek do bali daan diya. (In Calcutta . . . (indistinct) . . . they butchered in the temple of Kali. Yes . . . (indistinct) . . . they butchered one or two.) Actually. It was also very disastrous.

'''Setterji:''' To fight . . . when fight is there, then . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is also Kṛṣṇa conscious. You see how many demons are killed by Kṛṣṇa.

'''Setterji:''' "Come on." You challenge. You see? I've declared. If they challenge us, I am ready: "Come on." At the temple I challenged, "Come on! And you are 150. We don't afraid."

'''Prabhupāda:''' So . . . (indistinct) . . . (to Gopāla Kṛṣṇa) You have lost your ''kṣatriya'' spirit.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Having Setterji with us . . . when he has . . . (indistinct) . . . relax for few days, rest for few days.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh? If you have lost your ''kṣatriya'' spirit, then take him.

'''Setterji:''' When he came with that barrister to give you to notice . . . Maine Mahtre ko idhar khara karke usko gaali diya. (I made Mhatre stand and swore at him.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Isiliye toh . . . (That was the reason why . . .) Mhatre was so against it, that: "We must stop this." Yes. I heard from that doctor that he was insulted by Seti, "Either Seti should go . . ." Like that, he has repeated. He gave me a hint that Seti ko hata dijiye aur nahi ye nahi ho sakta. (Seti should be removed and this cannot happen.) And you know that. The doctor . . . what is that doctor?

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' He suggested. He's Mantrer's man.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' He's Mantrer's man?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Yes.

'''Setterji:''' He was also play the game in the land, this, that he was so many . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' He gave hint that, "Give Mhatre two ''lakhs'' of rupees." Yes. He was canvasser on behalf of Mhatre. He wanted two ''lakhs''.

'''Setterji:''' "Which I will . . . we will not give you a single paisa. We will fight to you. Come on." . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' So I think you make this point. But best thing is that if you can acquire that land, that is best solution. We can utilize that land?

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes, for agriculture. That's very good.

'''Prabhupāda:''' It is just in the corner.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' We can have a small ''gośālā'' there also.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Anything we can do.

'''Setterji:''' Gurujī, one night at the Pakistan front we stay in one place, and forty, fifty men came there, Kuraris and Kundasas. And another fellow which was with me, he was asked to be one of them. So when they came, we recognized and we were ready with the revolvers and the . . . (indistinct) . . . the men came, and they want to kill us, and we shoot them, five mens dead, that time, and the rest ran away. And I took my child, this Brijmohan, was . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Young? Young . . .

'''Setterji:''' He was five days old only. And I took my wife on the back . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Five days?

'''Setterji:''' Five days. And I took my wife on the back and child in my hand, and the way was so difficult, and the darkness. And then we . . . six miles . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' What about your other children and daughters?

'''Setterji:''' They were also with us.

'''Prabhupāda:''' But they were grown up.

'''Setterji:''' But my father took my . . . that child who was one year old, one and half year old.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, father, mother, everyone—whole family. Then how trial they had.

'''Setterji:''' Six miles from there, and then we got a . . .

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' A lot of these Punjabis had to go through this. During the Partition a lot of Punjabis had to face these fights and killings and all.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, in Bengal also there was fight.

'''Setterji:''' Huh? First in Bengal.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Noakali there was great fight.

'''Setterji:''' After this war I cannot slept six months perfect.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Mind was so disturbed.

'''Setterji:''' Because these, that scenes, came always . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, yes. In vision.

'''Setterji:''' . . . in dreams, that "We were fighting; we were killing, they are killing; we are killing."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Just see how much struggle.

'''Setterji:''' The dreams. Sometimes we wake up fighting, fighting.

'''Prabhupāda:''' I had such experience. I had some experience in my childhood, in 1911. I was thirteen years old. There was a riot. So our house was there in Mahatma Gandhi Road, and all sides Muhammadans. We are simply . . . the Mulliks and our house are simply some respectable men. Otherwise it was surrendered by . . . that is called Kwalabala and basti (Kalabagan basti). All Muhammadans, back side fully Muhammadans. So the riot was there, and I went to play. There is a square, Market (Marcus) Square. So I did not know the riot has taken place. I was coming home. So one of my class friends said that, "You do not go to your house. That side is rioting now." So because we are in the Muhammadan quarter, this fighting between two parties, that was going on. It is usual. So I thought it may be like that, that two ''guṇḍās'' are fighting. I have seen. One ''guṇḍā'' is stabbing the other ''guṇḍā'', I have seen. And they are pickpockets. When you are passing they would . . . I have seen, he is pickpocketing. (laughter) And they were our neighbor men. So I thought, "It must be like that. This is going on." But when I came the crossing of Mahatma Gandhi . . . at that time Harrison Road it was. Harrison Road and Holi . . . holiday . . . Halliday Street, yes. So one shop was being plundered, ''putamat-putamat-putamat'' . . . (indistinct) . . . so I was child, a boy. I became, "What is this happening?" In the meantime all, my father, mother, members: "Oh, the child has not come." They became so mad, they came out of home expecting, "Wherefrom the child will come?" So what could I do? When I saw, then I began to run towards our house, and one Muhammadan, he wanted to kill me. He took his ''lāṭhi'' and actually . . . but I passed through, some way or other. I was saved. So as soon as I came before our gate they got their life. So without speaking anything I went to the bedroom, and it was in the month of . . . it is winter. So I . . . without saying anything I laid down, wrapping myself with quilt. So at that time I was rising, "Is it ended? The riot is ended?" I was asking. I remember. So I would have been killed in that riot. So I have got experience of this riot. That is the first riot in Calcutta, in 1911.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' We haven't had any such experience.

'''Setterji:''' I was passing on my car after Pakistan from Laul, and they put bomb, hand grenade, and the back glass broken, but we . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Saved. Kṛṣṇa saved, actually. Unless Kṛṣṇa saves, who can? So I had the experience of riot in Calcutta in my childhood.

'''Setterji:''' Guruji us time aisa katai lagta tha ki maut bhi kuch chiz hai. Kuch maut ka dar hi nahi tha. (Guruji, during that time it was hard to think that there is something even called death. Some deaths had particular time.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' At any moment.

'''Setterji:''' "Who are afraid from death, come on!" challenging. Kuch dar nahi, maut bhi kuch chiz hoti hai . . . (indistinct) (Death is also something . . . (indistinct))

'''Prabhupāda:''' (indistinct) . . . Soldiers, they forget that, "We have to die." They fight for . . . that is another madness. In Hindi it is called ''kunchariya''.

'''Setterji:''' ''Kunchariya''. That is . . . ah. Aankhe ekdum laal rehti hai. Ekdum. (The eyes become totally red.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Soldiers, they do that. It is unnaturally he becomes. They become mad after killing. Usually a ''kṣatriya'' spirit. They must be trained-up ''kṣatriyas''. If he is ''bāniyā'', he cannot do it.

'''Setterji:''' In the old time (indistinct) . . . kisi aurat ko humne haat nahi lagaya . . . (indistinct) ((indistinct) . . . we did not ever touch any women . . . (indistinct)) who have challenged us.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah, they did. (laughs) So you were real husband to give protection to your wife.

'''Indian lady:''' (indistinct Hindi)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Can you make one ''cāpāṭi?''

'''Hari-śauri:''' I should make it, or Pālikā, or . . .? Just one ''cāpāṭi.''

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, Pālikā. (break) . . . business, that requires so many other things. But if you take to agriculture, you can do it immediately. ''Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya.'' That . . . we are going to do that. ''Kṛṣi'' . . . this is beginning: family life, maintenance, body and soul together. This is the beginning. Business is there when there is excess. ''Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam'' ([[BG 18.44 (1972)|BG 18.44]]). First of all you take care of the cows and engage yourself in agricultural product. Then when there is excess production, you trade, get some money for other purposes. But you . . . agriculture means you work for producing food. That is wanted. Why immediately go to trade? Trade is required when there is excess product. Everything is there. ''Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya''. And the ''kṛṣi'' you can produce independently. You simply work. You have got your hands and legs. You till the ground, throw some seed, and it will come. One kilo seeds, you'll get one hundred ''mounds''. Then, when the product is excess, you trade. Everything is there. If you produce food grain, you'll eat nicely and you'll be strong. You'll be able to work more. Our point is take Kṛṣṇa's instruction. Everything will be perfect. Not that Kṛṣṇa is advising immediately ''sarva-dharmān parityajya'' ([[BG 18.66 (1972)|BG 18.66]]). For that stage you are not prepared. That I know. But in your present stage what you'll do, that is perfect.

'''Girirāja:''' You mean I should leave everything and start a farm?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Where is the question of leaving? Agriculture . . . you take to agriculture—that means you leave everything?

'''Girirāja:''' Well, what I have now.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh? And what you have got? You are asking that, "I require now food." That means you have nothing. You have no food even. (aside) Oh, you have brought it very quickly. Very nice. All right. (break) Live very comfortably, eat very comfortably and work. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Simply wasting time, the civilization . . . ''Śrama eva hi kevalam'' ([[SB 1.2.8|SB 1.2.8]]). Working hard and wasting valuable time of . . . misguided. ''Andhā yathāndhair upanīya'' . . . ([[SB 7.5.31|SB 7.5.31]]). When I think of their position . . . so every Vaiṣṇava should be ''para-duḥkha-duḥkhī''. So you like it?

'''Hari-śauri:''' For thirty paisa it's very good. For the price it's very good.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Oh, it's very good in other ways. Full color. We're going to sell it for a rupee at Kumbha-melā.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Kṛpāmbudhir yas tam ahaṁ prapadye'' ([[CC Madhya 6.254|CC Madhya 6.254]]). The unhappy for the unhappiness of others. They love them, unhappy without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is a fact. The rascal may agree or not agree. That's a fact. Ghostly haunted.

'''Gopāla Kṛṣṇa:''' ''Jaya'', Śrīla Prabhupāda.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Jaya''. (break) Where is this temple? London? No.

'''Hari-śauri:''' Which one? Oh, that's the German castle. Schloss Rettershof.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, France.

'''Hari-śauri:''' German.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, yes, yes. I think it is rightly done.

'''Hari-śauri:''' For mass distribution it's very good. For mass distribution. How many copies he's . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' One ''lakh''.

'''Hari-śauri:''' One ''lakh''. (end)

730508 - Lecture SB 01.08.46 - Los Angeles

2024-02-07T04:57:47Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"

[[Category:1973 - Lectures]]
[[Category:1973 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1973 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1973-05 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Lectures - USA]]
[[Category:Lectures - USA, Los Angeles]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - USA]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - USA, Los Angeles]]
[[Category:Lectures - Srimad-Bhagavatam]]
[[Category:SB Lectures - Canto 01|10846]]
[[Category:Lectures - Queen Kunti Series]]
[[Category:Audio Files 30.01 to 45.00 Minutes]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Hindi Snippets]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Lectures - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Lectures - by Date|Lectures by Date]], [[:Category:1973 - Lectures|1973]]'''</div>
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<div class="code">730508SB-LOS ANGELES - May 08, 1973 - 39:02 Minutes</div>

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1973/730508SB-LOS_ANGELES.mp3</mp3player>

'''Pradyumna:''' ''Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya.'' (leads chanting of verse) (Prabhupāda and devotees repeat)

:''vyāsādyair īśvarehājñaiḥ''
:''kṛṣṇenādbhuta-karmaṇā''
:''prabodhito 'pītihāsair''
:''nābudhyata śucārpitaḥ''
:([[SB 1.8.46|SB 1.8.46]])

(break)

''vyāsa-ādyaiḥ''—by great sages headed by Vyāsa; ''īśvara''—the almighty God; ''īhā''—by the will of; ''jñaiḥ''—by the learned; kṛṣṇena—by Kṛṣṇa Himself; ''adbhuta''-''karmaṇā''—by one who performs all superhuman work; ''prabodhitaḥ''—being solaced; ''api''—although; ''itihāsaiḥ''—by evidences from the histories; ''na''—not; ''abudhyata''—satisfied; ''śucā arpitaḥ''—distressed.

Translation: "King Yudhiṣṭhira, who was much aggrieved, could not be convinced, despite instructions by great sages headed by Vyāsa and the Lord Kṛṣṇa Himself, the performer of superhuman feats, and despite all historical evidence."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. So Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira was very much aggrieved. He was thinking, Vaiṣṇava that, "I am a petty king, and for giving me the throne, so many people have been killed." That is the greatest war within the recollection of five thousand years, Kurukṣetra, Battle of Kurukṣetra. What is this figures? Six million, four hundred thousand people died in that battle. What is the statistics of the last war? How many people died? Is there any statistics?

'''Devotee:''' Two million.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Two million. And here it is six million.

'''Devotee:''' 640,000,000.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh? Last war?

'''Devotee:''' No, in Kurukṣetra, 640,000,000.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. Six hundred forty?

'''Devotee:''' In the ''Bhagavad-gītā'' that you have published it was 640,000,000.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. So which is greater? (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is zero. It is a business of zero, add or subtract. So anyway, a very large number of people died, and Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja, because he is Vaiṣṇava, although he was ''Kṣatriya . . . Kṣatriya's'' business is to keep himself in power even by killing his own son. That is ''Kṣatriya's'' business. ''Kṣatriya'', when there is question of fight . . . just like Bhīṣmadeva. Bhīṣmadeva, grandfather of Arjuna, very affectionate grandfather . . .

Because the Pāṇḍavas—Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja, Bhīma, Arjuna, Nakula, Sahadeva—when their father died they were small children. Naturally, Bhīṣma is the grandfather of the family, and he had to take care to raise the children. In one side he is grandfather, and he actually raised the children. So very affectionate, especially fatherless . . . and the daughter-in-law, Kuntī, was so helpless, because this Dhṛtarāṣṭra and his family, they were trying always to kill these Pāṇḍavas. And Vidura and Bhīṣmadeva, they were giving protection some way or other.

So still, although so much affectionate, when the war was declared, Bhīṣmadeva took the side of Duryodhana. He did not take the side of Pāṇḍavas, although they were very affectionate, beloved. He replied that, "This side, Duryodhana, they are maintaining me. I am maintained by them. So I cannot go against them. That is not possible." Naturally, Bhīṣmadeva would have come to the side of Pāṇḍavas because very affectionate. But he said that "That is not possible, because I am maintained by them." This is the duty. If somebody maintains you, you must be very much grateful to him. These are the examples, Vedic culture. He is not maintained by anyone, but because he had no claim on the kingdom, he was thinking himself that, "I am dependent on this family."

Actually, the kingdom belonged to Bhīṣmadeva, the kingdom. But he promised . . . his father wanted to marry Satyavatī. At that time, his father was old enough . . . Bhīṣmadeva was grown-up boy, twenty, twenty-two years. But nature, his father wanted to marry again. Bhīṣmadeva is the son of Mother Ganges. Bhīṣmadeva's father married the predominating deity Mother Ganges, of the Ganges water. So she was very beautiful. So she agreed to marry Bhīṣmadeva's father on one condition. What is that condition? That all the children that will be begotten, they will be thrown in the Ganges water. This was the condition. If the king agreed, then she would marry.

So when a man becomes mad after woman . . . so he agreed, "Yes, I shall throw all the children. Never mind. (laughter) Come on." ''Māyā-mohita. Māyā-sukhāyā bharam udvahato vimūḍhān'' ([[SB 7.9.43|SB 7.9.43]]). This whole world, rascal world, they are captivated by this woman. Woman is captivated by man, man is captivated by woman. This is the tie here in this material world. ''Puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etam'' ([[SB 5.5.8|SB 5.5.8]]). I have explained several times. The whole material existence means this attraction. (break) ''Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham'' ([[SB 7.9.45|SB 7.9.45]]). There are so many instructory verses. Here sex enjoyment is the most prominent, and people are captivated by this. This is life.

So anyway, even the father of Bhīṣma, he was captivated. So this was the condition. So in this way, every child was being thrown in the Ganges water. So after all . . . Bhīṣmadeva's father became very mortified. So Bhīṣma, when Bhīṣma was going to be thrown in the water, he objected: "No, I cannot allow. I cannot allow." "Then I am going." "Now you can go. I shall keep this child." So Ganges, Mother Ganges, left Bhīṣma's father. And Bhīṣma was raised by his father. He became grown up. Again this father became captivated with Satyavatī. Satyavatī. Satyavatī, before her marriage . . . Satyavatī is the daughter of a fisherman. The fishermen . . . in your country there is no such distinction, but in our country there are classification. A fishermen, there is a class. So their girls and women, very well-figured, very enchanting figure.

So Satyavatī was the daughter of a fisherman, and Bhīṣma's father become enchanted. So he went to the fisherman. He was king. So, "Give me your daughter. I shall marry." "Oh, you are already married. You have got son. Why shall I give my daughter to you?" "No, I am king. I shall maintain her." "No, no, no. I don't want to give." In India still, if a man wants to marry, and if he has got children by his former wife, people will hesitate to give him daughter, because there are stepsons. So nobody wants that, "My daughter will be troubled by the stepson, daughter." No. Still they are practiced. To marry for the second time becomes a problem. But nowadays these things are gone.

So the grown-up son, Bhīṣmadeva, he understood that, "My father is inclined to marry that girl." So he went to plead—canvass, "So why don't you give your daughter to my father?" "No, no, I cannot give my daughter to your father. You are his son. You will inherit the kingdom, and my daughter's son will not inherit. So how can I give my daughter?" So he said that, "I'll not accept the kingdom. I promise that your daughter's son will inherit the kingdom." "No, no, no. Still I cannot." "Why?" Now "You'll marry. Then your son will be inheritor. My grandson will not be inheritor." He was calculating in that way, pakka businessman. (true businessman.) (laughter) So he promised that, "You give your daughter to my father, and I promise that I shall not marry. So there will be no son. So naturally my stepmother's son will inherit the kingdom." Then he agreed.

So Bhīṣmadeva's father, although it was little shameful that the son is canvassing for the marriage of father, still, he could understand that, "My son is so sensible that I wanted to marry, and he has managed." So he gave him one benediction: "My dear son, you'll remain ''brahmacārī'', I can understand. But I give you one benediction, that unless you desire to die, you will never die." ''Icchā-mṛtyu''. "This benediction you will have. Unless you desire that 'Now I shall die,' nobody can kill you, and you'll never die." So this was the . . . therefore . . .

And because he promised so seriously that, "I shall not marry," he gave up his kingdom—therefore his name is Bhīṣma. ''Bhīṣma'' means "very serious." So this Bhīṣmadeva actually maintained the whole Pāṇḍava family. That means Pāṇḍava, the Pāṇḍava and Yudhiṣṭhira and Pāṇḍu, they are the sons of the stepmother. And because Bhīṣmadeva was elderly son, practically he maintained even Yudhiṣṭhira, here, Dhṛtarāṣṭra and Pāṇḍava. And then again, Pāṇḍu, he died—his sons, these Pāṇḍavas, Yudhiṣṭhira, they were also raised by Bhīṣmadeva. So much affection.

But when there was question of fight, so Bhīṣmadeva fought so severely that Arjuna had to be protected by Kṛṣṇa. Bhīṣmadeva, you know . . . in ''Mahābhārata'' these stories are there. Bhīṣmadeva actually had some affection. So Duryodhana thought that, "My grandfather is not fighting properly because the other side, his beloved grandsons. I am also grandson, but I am not so beloved. But the other side, Pāṇḍavas, because they are fatherless, he has more affection for them. So he is officially fighting. He is not fighting with his real vigor." He complained that.

But actually, that was the fact that, "My dear grandfather, you are not fighting with Arjuna with your full vigor. I can understand that." "Oh, I am not fighting? So what do you think?" "Now, I want that you decide to kill them all tomorrow. You can do that." "All right. I shall do that. If you are doubting about my fighting, then I shall . . ." So he made special five arrows to kill the five brothers next. So Duryodhana asked his grandfather that, "Let me keep these five arrows with me. I shall deliver you tomorrow morning. Otherwise it may be missing."

So all these things—Kṛṣṇa is Paramātmā; He knows everything. So He saw that, "There is danger tomorrow. Now Bhīṣma has decided to kill all these Pāṇḍavas." So He asked Arjuna, "Arjuna, you just go, approach Duryodhana this evening." Formerly the practice was, daytime there is fight, but in the after evening they are all friends. After evening they are friends. One can go this camp, that camp, and talk together, sit together, just like friends. There is no enemy. So Duryodhana sometimes promised Arjuna that "I want to give you some benediction. You can ask." So Arjuna said—Duryodhana was elder than Arjuna—that "I will ask you in proper time." So Kṛṣṇa reminded that, "Today . . . tonight, you go to Duryodhana and ask him to deliver those five arrows kept in secret. Otherwise, tomorrow you will be finished."

So Duryodhana went to, er, Arjuna went to Duryodhana in the camp. Duryodhana received him well: "Come on, brother. What do you want?" He thought that "We are fighting. Arjuna has come to beg the kingdom without fighting." So they were so liberal. He said, "Yes, come in. If you want the kingdom without fighting, I am prepared." But a ''Kṣatriya'' will never beg, "Give me, sir, without . . ." No. If they can own by fighting, then they will claim. This is ''Kṣatriya'' spirit.

So he said that, "No, I have not come to beg the kingdom. We shall fight, go on fighting. But I want those five arrows you have kept." Oh, immediately he delivered. Although he was very cautious that these five arrows may not be missing, but promise is promise. Immediately he delivered. So Bhīṣma understood later on that the five arrows were taken by Arjuna by trick. So still, he promised that, "Even without those five weapons, today I shall kill Arjuna. Unless Kṛṣṇa gives His special protection to Arjuna, there is no escape. Either Kṛṣṇa has to break His promise, otherwise His friend will be killed."

So Kṛṣṇa, when He joined Arjuna, He said that He would not fight: "I can help you simply by becoming your charioteer, but I cannot fight." Because the purpose was that Arjuna was to gain the fight. But if Kṛṣṇa would fight, people would say that Kṛṣṇa won the fight, not Arjuna; that he avoided fighting. It was sure. Kṛṣṇa fights or not fights, because He was on the side of Arjuna, it was sure that he would gain the battle. That is explained in the ''Bhagavad-gītā''. ''Yatra yogeśvaro hariḥ'' ([[BG 18.78 (1972)|BG 18.78]]). Where there is Kṛṣṇa, the victory is assured.

So in this way there was fierce fighting between Arjuna and Bhīṣma. And Arjuna's chariot became broken into pieces, and he fell down, and when Kṛṣṇa saw that, "Now Arjuna is going to be killed," He broke His own promise. He broke His own promise and took one wheel of the chariot and reached before Bhīṣma that, "Now I shall kill you." Bhīṣma immediately gave up his weapon. So, "That was my promise, that I wanted that either You have to break Your promise or Your friend will be killed. So now You have broken Your promise. So I am giving up. Because it is not expected that I shall fight with You." (laughter) So Kṛṣṇa said that "Yes, I have kept your promise, but I have broken My promise. You decided, you promised . . ."

So this is Kṛṣṇa's business, to . . . Bhīṣma was a devotee, great devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So he promised that either Kṛṣṇa would break His promise, otherwise His friend will be dead. So He broke His promise. So sometimes Kṛṣṇa breaks His promise, own promise, for the sake of His devotee. Nobody is expected to break his promise, but Kṛṣṇa is so kind, for protection of His devotee He can do anything. He can break His promise also. This is Kṛṣṇa's position. So such Bhīṣma was so affectionate to the Pāṇḍavas. So Kṛṣṇa wanted . . . Bhīṣma was lying on the bed of arrows, preparing for his death. So Kṛṣṇa wanted that these Pāṇḍavas should go to Bhīṣma and hear his instruction.

Therefore, despite His advice to Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira that, "There was no wrong on your part. You are thinking that you have killed, or for your sake so many men have been killed. That is not . . . you are not responsible for that. You are not sinful." For a ''Kṣatriya'', killing is not sinful. For a ''Brāhmin'', sacrificing an animal in the arena, that is not sinful. So it is all explained in the ''Bhagavad-gītā'', ''sa doṣam api na tyajet'' ([[BG 18.48 (1972)|BG 18.48]]). Killing is bad, but a ''Kṣatriya's'' business is to kill. Without killing, one cannot become perfect ''Kṣatriya''. Because he has to give protection, and there are so many demons, rascals. So if the king becomes nonviolent, how other citizens will be given protection? No.

So the king's business is as soon as he sees one undesirable element, immediately he would kill. That is real protection. Just like when Parīkṣit Mahārāja was going on tour, he saw one black man was trying to kill a cow. Immediately saw, "Who are you? You are trying to kill cow in my kingdom? I shall kill you." He immediately took out his sword. This is king, that . . . not that animals should not be given protection, only man should be given protection. No. ''Prajā. Prajā'' means one who has taken birth in the kingdom. That is called ''prajā''. So animal is also American, man is also American, but there is no protection for the animal by the government.

So that kind of government, rascal government, was not there. Equal right. Your country says equality given. Why not equality to the animals? That is defect. It is due to, I mean to say, absence of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. A Kṛṣṇa conscious person will not distinguish like that—for eating animal, they will philosophize that animal has no soul; therefore it can be killed. No. This is nonsense. Everyone has got soul. Even a small ant has got soul. But they have to kill. They have to eat. They are philosophizing different way. Lord Jesus Christ said: "Thou shall not kill," and now they are interpreting, "Killing means murdering, human being." But that is not in the Bible.

So they are manufacturing their own ways of understanding Bible and ethical principles. Therefore it is becoming valueless. It is becoming valueless. No value. One cannot change the words of the authority. If you believe in Lord Jesus Christ, you cannot make any change to your convenience. This is rascaldom. You cannot be a Christian if you violate the orders of Lord Jesus Christ. But they are doing so. Now the Christian priests . . . we had a meeting in Sydney. One priest asked me, "What we have done that they are not anymore caring for us?" I told him that, "You are always violating the Ten Commandments, and you say what you have done? Lord Jesus Christ says, 'Thou shall not kill,' and you are killing, expert in killing. And you are still Christian? So you cannot understand what you have done? You have always misguided people." I told him. So he was not very happy to hear this straight answer. (laughter) But he admitted . . .

Anyway . . . so for ''Kṣatriya'', just like Mahārāja Parīkṣit . . . if ''Kṣatriya'' becomes nonviolent . . . just like our Mahatma Gandhi started nonviolence in politics. So that was a political policy. But in politics there is no question of nonviolence, in politics. That is foolishness. Actually, India gained independence not by nonviolence. That is a great history. India gained independence . . . Gandhi was fighting with nonviolence for thirty, thirty-five years; there was no result. But one of the leaders, when he, I mean to say, ensued fighting, then within, I think, within one year the Britishers left. So in politics there is no question of nonviolence. So a king, a protector, ''Kṣatriya . . . Kṣatriya'' means ''kṣat. Kṣat'' means injury, injury. And ''tra, tra'' means deliver. So a ''Kṣatriya's'' business is to deliver a person who is going to be injured. That is ''Kṣatriya''. Just like this cow was going to be injured, and as soon as Mahārāja Parīkṣit saw it, he immediately took his sword to kill him. So this is ''kṣatriya''.

Therefore ''Kṣatriyas'' are allowed to go in the forest and kill some animal. Because he has to practice. So what kind of animal? Not the cows or simple animal. He must kill one tiger, one lion, one jungle boar. Ferocious, very ferocious animal. That was the ''Kṣatriya's'' business. Not that a rabbit (laughter) or innocent bird, sports. This kind of sporting was not allowed. If you want to kill, you must kill one rhinoceros. Then one can understand that you have power of killing. That ''Kṣatriya'' used to do. Even, say, twenty-five years ago, Mahārāja Jaipur, he used to go into the forest every year, and he would fight with a tiger, simply with a sword. Simply with a sword. He would fight with a tiger in the jungle, and he was so expert, he would kill. And then the tiger would be brought in procession, in royal procession. Because the king used to say, "This tiger is the king of forest, or the lion is the king of the forest. I am also king. So after his death, there must be a royal reception." So this was . . . the function was going on.

So ''Kṣatriya'' means they used to kill, practice. Unless they practice, how they can kill? And now our president, they practice only smoking, that's all. (laughter) That's all. And when there is fight, he is in the chamber, safety chamber, and others are, the poor boys, they are called by the draft board, and go and fight. This is not ''Kṣatriya''. These are ''śūdras. Kṣatriya'', when there is fight, the king must come forward first. The other party's king also. The king will fight with king, and the soldiers will fight soldiers according to position. And when the king is killed, then victory is owned. It doesn't require that all the soldiers were killed. No.

So there are many . . . this is actually Vedic culture. You will find all this from ''Mahābhārata. Bhāgavata'' also, we are trying to explain as far as possible. The ''Brāhmin, Kṣatriya, Vaiśya, Śūdra'', this is natural division. So for fighting, ''Kṣatriya''. In India, because still there are some ''Kṣatriyas'', there is no such draft board. The ''Kṣatriya'' class, they would come forward to be recruited by the military department. They will not go away. They will be very glad to accept military service, because in their blood the ''Kṣatriya'' spirit is there. In India there is no scarcity to find out a fighter. But when people are trained as ''Śūdra'', how he can fight?

Therefore it is very scientific. ''Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ'' ([[BG 4.13 (1972)|BG 4.13]]). The society must be divided. There is division already, natural. We have to simply pick up, that "This boy is ''Brāhmaṇa'', this boy is ''Kṣatriya'', this boy is ''Vaiśya'' and this boy is ''Śūdra''." So they should be given separate employment. Then there will be peace. If a person is employed according to his natural tendency, he becomes successful. He becomes successful. But if you give some employment, just like to put a cart before a horse, like that, no, that will not be successful.

Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that . . . you can say that, "There is no need of ''Kṣatriya''; let there be all ''śūdras''." No. Then there will be social scandal. Everything must be there. The Brāhmin must be there, the ''Kṣatriya'' must be there, the ''Vaiśyas'' must be there and the ''Śūdras'' must be there, and the state should look that these things are observed scientifically and they are being educated in that way. That is king's business. He must see that the ''Kṣatriyas'', those who are ''Kṣatriya'' spirited, they are being trained up as ''Kṣatriya''—the ''Brāhmins'' are being trained up as ''Brāhmin''.

Everything is required. Just like in your body, all the four divisions . . . just like head, that is ''Brāhmin''; the arms, that is ''Kṣatriya''; the belly, that is ''Vaiśya''; and the legs, they are ''Śūdra''. So as much as the head is required, so much the legs are also required. You cannot say, "One class will do." No. But the modern tendency is one class of men. And therefore there is confusion. There must be four classes. That is scientific.

So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to educate some ''Brāhmin''. If the society take our help and conduct the business of the society—''Kṣatriya, Vaiśya, Śūdra''—then there will be peace and prosperity. Otherwise there will be chaos and confusion.

Thank you very much.

'''Devotees:''' ''Jaya'', all glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)

731224 - Lecture SB 01.15.46 - Los Angeles

2024-02-07T04:57:44Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"

[[Category:1973 - Lectures]]
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[[Category:Lectures - Srimad-Bhagavatam]]
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<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Lectures - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Lectures - by Date|Lectures by Date]], [[:Category:1973 - Lectures|1973]]'''</div>
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<div class="code">731224SB-LOS ANGELES - December 24, 1973 - 46:56 Minutes</div>

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1973/731224SB-LOS_ANGELES.mp3</mp3player>

'''Prabhupāda:''' Now, recite.

'''Pradyumna:''' ''Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya.'' (devotees repeat) (Prabhupāda and devotees repeat)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . (indistinct) . . . hmm.

'''Pradyumna:''' Do you want me to read the text?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, that's all right. That will be reference.

'''Pradyumna:''' (leads chanting of verse)

:''te sādhu-kṛta-sarvārthā''
:''jñātvātyantikam ātmanaḥ''
:''manasā dhārayām āsur''
:''vaikuṇṭha-caraṇāmbujam''
:([[SB 1.15.46|SB 1.15.46]])

''te''—all of them; ''sādhu-kṛta''—having performed everything worthy of a saint; ''sarva-arthāḥ''—that which includes everything worthy; ''jñātvā''—knowing it well; ''ātyantikam''—the ultimate; ''ātmanaḥ''—of the living being; ''manasā''—within the mind; ''dhārayām āsuḥ''—sustained; ''vaikuṇṭha''—the Lord of the spiritual sky; ''caraṇa-ambujam''—lotus feet.

Translation: "They all had performed all the principles of religion, and as a result rightly decided that the lotus feet of the Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa are the supreme goal of all. Therefore they meditated upon His feet without interruption."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hm. ''Te sādhu-kṛta-sarvārthā. Artha'' means interest. Everyone has some interest. The animal has got also interest. The man has got also interest. The big politician, he has also interest. Everyone has got interest. But nobody knows what is real interest. That is missing. Everyone has created his interest, and he is working in that way. ''Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum'' ([[SB 7.5.31|SB 7.5.31]]). Real interest is, for the human being, to know what is God, what is my relationship with Him, and how I shall achieve the highest perfection of life. That is real interest.

''Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum. Svārtha. Svārtha'' or ''artha. Svārtha'' means own interest, and ''artha'' means general interest. The general interest is, for the human being, ''dharma'' ''artha kāma mokṣa'' ([[SB 4.8.41]], [[CC Adi 1.90|CC Ādi 1.90]]). Because human life is not dog's life, cat's life, so there must be ''dharma'', religion. And religion means no God (dog?). That is first interest. This is first interest. Otherwise how shall I distinguish my life with cats' and dogs' life? They are also eating, sleeping, mating and dying. And if I also, like the cats and dogs, eat, sleep and have sex life and die, then where is the difference? The difference is religion. The dog society, cat society, there cannot be any religion, but in the human society, there is necessity of religion. Otherwise it is cats' and dogs' . . . (indistinct) . . . society. So they do not understand it. They are avoiding religion. Nowadays the so-called advanced civilization, they are avoiding religion. That means they are coming to the platform of cats and dogs. And actually, they have come. Especially in this age, Kali-yuga . . .

Yesterday we were discussing about the Kali-yuga: the most fallen age. People are most degraded. So there is, by calculation, that seventy-five percent irreligion and twenty-five percent religion in comparison to other ages. But this twenty-five percent religious life also will reduce. Before explaining this verse, I shall give you reference to some of the symptoms of this age. This is also explained in the ''Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam'', Twelfth Canto, Third Chapter.

(aside) Where is that? Give me that book. We have not yet published, so I am reading reference.

''Anyonyato rājabhiś ca kṣayaṁ yāsyanti pīḍitāḥ'' ([[SB 12.1.41|SB 12.1.41]]). It is described in the Second Chapter, Twelfth Canto, ''Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam''. So:

:''tataś cānu-dinaṁ dharmaḥ''
:''satyaṁ śaucaṁ kṣamā dayā''
:''kālena balinā rājan''
:''naṅkṣyaty āyur balaṁ smṛtiḥ''
:([[SB 12.2.1|SB 12.2.1]])

This description of the Kali-yuga is given in the ''Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam''. This is called ''śāstra''. This ''Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam'' was written five thousand years ago, when the Kali-yuga was to begin. Now, what will happen in future, everything is given there. ''Śāstra'' means . . . that is . . . therefore we accept ''śāstra. Tri-kāla-jña''. The ''śāstrakāra'', or the compiler of the ''śāstra'', must be liberated person, so that he can describe past, present and future. In the ''Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam'' you will find so many things which was told to be happening in future. Just like in the ''Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam'' there is mention of Lord Buddha's appearance. Similarly, there is mention of Lord Kalki's appearance. There is mention of Lord Caitanya's appearance, although it was written five thousand years ago. ''Tri-kāla-jña''. Know; they know what is past, present and future.

So about the Kali-yuga, discussing, Śukadeva Gosvāmī is describing the chief symptoms of this age. The first symptom he says, ''tataś ca anu-dinam''. With the progress of this age, Kali-yuga, ''dharma'', religious principle; ''satyam'', truthfulness; ''śaucam'', cleanliness; ''kṣamā'', forgiveness; ''dayā'', mercifulness; ''āyuḥ'', duration of life; ''balam'', bodily strength; ''smṛtiḥ'', memory . . . just count how many. ''dharmaḥ, satyam, śaucam, kṣamā, dayā, āyuḥ, balam, smṛti''—eight. These things will gradually reduce to nil, almost nil.

Now as I told you, the Kali-yuga . . . in other ''yugas'' . . . just like Satya-yuga, the duration of Satya-yuga was eighteen hundred thousands of years. And the human being was living in that age for one hundred thousands of years. One hundred thousands of years. The next age, the duration of that age, twelve hundred thousands of years, and the people used to live for one thousand years, not over . . . ten thousand years. Ten times reduced. The next age, Dvāpara-yuga, again ten times reduced. Still, they used to live for one thousand years, and the duration of the age was eight hundred thousands of years. Now the next age, this Kali-yuga, the limit is one hundred years. We can live utmost up to one hundred years. We are not living one hundred years, but still, the limit is one hundred years. So just see. Now, from one hundred years . . . now at India the average age is about thirty-five years. In your country they say seventy years? So it is reducing. And it will so reduce that if a man lives for twenty to thirty years, he will be considered grand old man in this age, Kali-yuga. So ''āyuḥ'', duration of life, will reduce.

Memory, ''smṛti'', that will also reduce. We see nowadays, people are not very . . . of sharp memory. They forget. Daily work they forget. Doing something daily, still, he is forgetting. The loss of memory. Similarly, ''āyuḥ'', bodily strength. Everyone can understand. Your forefathers, your father or grandfather, as they were bodily strong, you are not so, I am not so. So bodily strength will reduce. Memory will reduce. Duration of life will reduce. Then ''dharma'' . . . there is no question. It is almost reduced. Nobody is interested in religion. The churches, temples are being closed, locked up. This was a church. Where we are sitting, this was a church, and it was sold, because nobody was coming. Similarly, we are purchasing in Australia a very big church. They are selling. In London I have seen many hundred of churches, nobody is going there. Not only churches. In India also, except a few important temples, ordinary, small temples, they are being closed. They have become habitation of the dogs.

So ''dharma'', religiosity, is reducing. And truthfulness. And ''kṣamā'', forgiveness, that is also reduced. We are very sorry that one thing has happened; he was excused, but again he was shot dead. Just see. No forgiveness. Vengeance. Formerly, if somebody has done something wrong, the other party . . . just like Arjuna, you see. Even in the battlefield, he was so much tortured by the other party, still, he was, "Kṛṣṇa let them go. I don't want to kill them." Forgiveness. So even for a small interest, they will kill. This is going on. So ''satyam, śaucam, kṣamā, dayā,'' mercifulness. Even if you see in your front somebody is being killed, you will not take interest. No mercifulness. It is happening already.

So ''satyam, śaucam, kṣamā, dayā, āyuḥ'', duration of life, bodily strength and memory. These eight kinds of things will reduce, reduce, reduce, reduce.When you will see these symptoms, you will find, "Now the age of Kali is making his progress very nicely." This is progress. Then another symptom is ''vittam eva kalau nṟṇāṁ janmācāra-guṇodayaḥ'' ([[SB 12.2.2|SB 12.2.2]]). Formerly, according to spiritual understanding, one man's position was calculated. Just like ''brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa'' was honored because he knew Brahman. He was aware of the supreme spirit. So now in Kali-yuga, actually there is no ''brāhmaṇa''. That will be also described, how a ''brāhmaṇa'' is. So ''janma ācāra'', birthright. Birthright was there, but according to the behavior. If a man is born in a ''brahmin'' family or ''kṣatriya'' family or ''vai'' . . . he must behave like that. That was the king's duty, to see that, "This man is not falsely representing himself." Just like in England there is lord family. So to maintain their aristocracy, the family had to deposit some money with the government so that they may not deteriorate in their aristocratic behavior. Still, it is going on. But now things are finished.

So aristocracy and respectability, these things were according to culture, according to education. But nowadays, what is that? ''Vittam eva kalau nṟṇām''. If you get money somehow or other, then everything is there. That's all. You may be a third-class, fourth-class, tenth-class man, but if you get money some way or other, then you are very respectable. There is no question of your culture or aristocracy or education or knowledge. There is no . . . nothing. This is Kali-yuga. And then, ''dharma''-''nyāya-vyavasthāyāṁ kāraṇaṁ balam eva hi'' ([[SB 12.2.2|SB 12.2.2]]). And if you have got some influence, strength, then in your favor everything will be decided. You are the most irreligious person, but if you can bribe the priestly order, he will certify, "Yes, you are religious." So money, not actual qualification.

So if you discuss these things . . . long affairs, shortly. Then again it says, ''dāmpatye abhirucir hetur māyaiva vyāvahārike'' ([[SB 12.2.3|SB 12.2.3]]). ''Dāmpatye. Dāmpatye'', husband and wife relation, will depend on ''abhiruciḥ. Abhiruciḥ'' means liking. A girl likes boy, and a boy likes, "That's alright. Now let the marriage take place." They do not see what will be future of this girl and the boy. Never. Therefore everyone is unhappy. Six months after marriage, divorce. Because the marriage took place simply on superficial liking, no deep understanding. So things are taking place like that.

Formerly marriage, at least in India, at least up to our time, the marriage was taking place not on the liking of the boy and the girl. No. It was decided by the parents. So . . . just like I was also married man. I was married when I was a student, and I did not know what will be the . . . but the parents arranged. What to speak of me—I will give you another very brilliant example, that you have perhaps heard the name of Dr. Rajendra Prasad. He was the first president of Indian . . . he has written his biography. He was married at the age of eight years. Formerly, in India the marriage was taking place like that. I know. My father-in-law was married when he was eleven years, and my mother-in-law was seven years. You see? So actually, the point is that the marriage was taking by the calculation of past, present and future, with astronomy, astrological calculation, "Whether this couple will be happy in their life?" In this way marriage was taking place. Not that a grown-up girl, grown-up boy mixes together, and he likes, she likes; then again he leaves or she . . . this kind of marriage was not sanctioned.

But in this Kali-yuga it is said that ''dāmpatye abhiruciḥ''. That's all. ''Abhiruciḥ''. Boys and girls are intermingling freely, and if she likes, that's all right. But no future calculation. This is Kali-yuga. No future calculation, whether in future marriage is sanctified life, the man and the woman live peacefully, make spiritual culture, each one will help the other so that they will live very happily and become advancement in spiritual life and then go back to . . . that is the system. But nowadays, in Kali-yuga, it will be simply liking. Liking means next moment disliking. That is a fact. You see? Liking has no value. As soon as you based on liking, then you expect next moment disliking. That's all.

And ''strītve puṁstve ca hi ratir vipratve sūtram eva hi'' ([[SB 12.2.3|SB 12.2.3]]). You know, the ''brahmin'', they are offered sacred thread. So people will consider, "Now I have got sacred thread, I have become ''brahmin''. I may act like the ''caṇḍāla'', it doesn't matter." That is going on. We introduced this brahminical culture, but things are deteriorated. I am very sorry, that taking brahminical initiation, he is acting as a ''caṇḍāla'', angry ''caṇḍāla''. You see? So this is Kali-yuga. He does not understand that as ''brahmin'' he has got so responsibility. But because he has got the two-cent-worth sacred thread, he thinks now he has become ''brahmin. Vipratve.'' And ''strītve puṁstve ca hi ratir eva hi'', and husband and wife, they will remain together because it was liking. And as soon as there will be sex difficulty, there will be disliking immediately.

''Liṅgam eva āśrama-khyātau'' ([[SB 12.2.4|SB 12.2.4]]). ''Liṅgam eva.'' A dress simply. Taking white dress, a ''gṛhastha'', he may do like anything, he is ''gṛhastha''. No. There are so many duties. Taking a saffron cloth, he is ''sannyāsī''. These are the . . . if we explain, it will take more . . . but these are the symptoms. ''Avṛttyā nyāya-daurbalyaṁ pāṇḍitye cāpalaṁ vacaḥ''. If you have no money, then you will never get justice in the court. This is Kali-yuga. Nowadays the high-court judges, they are also taking bribe to give you a favorable judgment. You can purchase judgment. So if you have no money, then don't go to court. To push good money after bad money. No. No.

''Avṛttyā nyāya-daurbalyaṁ pāṇḍitye cāpalaṁ vacaḥ.'' If a man can talk expertly, it doesn't matter what he talks. Nobody requires to understand him. Then he is ''paṇḍita''. He is learned scholar. (speaks gibberish) "''Haperkulasvena bhagavad dagvendikali gundulas'', by the lacticism of wife . . ." like, if you go on speaking, nobody will understand. (laughter) Nobody will understand, and people, "Oh, see how learned he is." (laughter) Actually it is happening. There are so many rascals, they are writing book, and "Oh, such and such, oh . . ." "What you have understood?" "Oh, it is inexplicable. Inexplicable." (laughter) This is going on.

:''anāḍhyataivāsādhutve''
:''sādhutve dambha eva tu''
:''svīkāra eva codvāhe''
:''snānam eva prasādhanam''
:([[SB 12.2.5|SB 12.2.5]])

''Anāḍhyatā''. If you are poor man, then you are dishonest. People will understand that, "This man is actually not honest, because he does not know how to earn money by hook or crook." ''Svīkāra eva codvāhe'', "And marriage will take place by agreement." And that is very much experienced in your country. In our country also. Now government has appointed marriage magistrate. So any boy and girl likes, simply go to him. Maybe there is some fee: "Yes, we agree to marry," and certifies, "They are married." No. Not like that. Formerly, as the father and mother used to select and see the future. ''Svīkāra eva codvāhe. Svīkāra. Svīkāra'' means agreement.

''Snānam eva prasādhanam. Snānam eva prasādhanam''. Cosmetic. Simply if one can take little shower bath, then everything is finished. Actually, ''snāna'' means ''sandhyā''. You have to take bath nicely, then you have to put ''tilaka'' and ''candana'', then perform your ''gāyatrī-mantra.'' This is called ''snāna. Tri-sandhyā-snāna''. Now they are simply taking somehow or other bath, and finished, "No more." But Kali-yuga, this will be ''snānam eva''. And then ''dūre vāry-ayanaṁ tīrthaṁ lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam.'' Just see how future tell. At the present moment, Kali-yuga, a man will think himself, he has become very beautiful by keeping long hairs. You have got very good experience in your country, long hairs. Just see how future. Who knew that there are people would be interested for keeping long hairs? But that is stated in the ''Bhāgavata''. Just see. ''Keśa-dhāraṇam. Keśa'' means hair, and ''dhāraṇam'' means keeping.

''Dūre vāry-ayanaṁ tīrtham''. And pilgrimage, it must be far away. Just like in Calcutta there is Ganges. So nobody cares for Calcutta Ganges. But they'll go to Haridwar. The same Ganges. The Ganges is coming from Haridwar down to the Bay of Bengal, but people will like to go to Haridwar, taking so much hardship to take bath there, because that becomes ''tīrtha''. Every religion, they have got ''tīrtha''. The Muslims, they have got mosque. What is that? Mecca, Medina. The Christian, they have got, where? Jerusalem. Similarly, the Hindus. Then they must travel very long. That will be ''tīrtha''. But actually ''tīrtha'' means ''tīrthī-kurvanti tīrthāni.'' Where there is saintly person, that is ''tīrtha''. Not to go ten thousand miles and simply take a dip in the water and come back. Then:

:''. . . udaraṁ-bharatā svārthaḥ''
:''satyatve dhārṣṭyam eva hi''
:''dākṣyaṁ kuṭumba-bharaṇaṁ''
:''yaśo 'rthe dharma-sevanam''
:([[SB 12.2.6|SB 12.2.6]])

''Udaraṁ-bharatā'', the interest. I was speaking of interest. Now, in Kali-yuga, the interest will be if you can eat some day very sumptuously, then your all interest is fulfilled. That's all. Mane, (Means,) people will be so hungry, so nothing to eat; therefore if they can eat some day very sumptuously, that will be fulfillment of all interest. And ''satyatve dhārṣṭyam eva hi''. And one who will simply play jugglery of words, he will be considered as very truthful. Another, ''dākṣyaṁ kuṭumba-bharaṇam'': one shall be considered very expert if he can maintain his family, wife and children. That means this will be difficult. It has already become difficult. To maintain a wife and a few children, that is also a great burden at the same . . . (indistinct) . . . therefore nobody wants to marry.

''Evaṁ prajābhir duṣṭābhir ākīrṇe kṣiti-maṇḍale'' ([[SB 12.2.7|SB 12.2.7]]). In this way, when all the people will be infected by the poison of Kali-yuga, ''brahma-viṭ-kṣatra-śūdrāṇāṁ yo balī bhavitā nṛpaḥ''. So it doesn't matter whether he is a ''brāhmaṇa'' or a ''kṣatriya'' or ''vaiśya'' or ''śūdra'' or ''caṇḍāla''. One who is powerful in getting votes, he will occupy the presidential post or the royal post. Just see. Formerly the system was that not the ''brāhmaṇa'', er, ''vaiśya'' or ''śūdra'' can occupy the royal throne. Only the ''kṣatriyas''. Now, in the Kali-yuga, there is no such thing, who is ''kṣatriya'', who is a ''brāhmaṇa'', who is a . . . anyone, hook and crook you get your votes, democracy, and occupy . . . and whatever you may be—you may be rascal number one—but you will be posted on the supreme exalted presidential post. Then:

:''prajā hi lubdhai rājanyair''
:''nirghṛṇair dasyu-dharmabhiḥ''
:''ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā''
:''yāsyanti giri-kānanam''
:([[SB 12.2.8|SB 12.2.8]])

Now, these classes of men who goes to the government post by votes, mostly they are . . . their qualification is ''lubdhai rājanya'', greedy government men. ''Nirghṛṇair dasyu-dhar'' . . . their business is plundering. Their business is plundering you. We actually see that they are, every year they are exacting heavy tax, and whatever money is received, they divide amongst themselves, and the citizens' condition remains the same. In every government we can see like that. ''Prajā dasyu-dharmabhiḥ''. In this way, gradually, all people will be so much harassed, ''ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā'', that they will like to give up their family life. ''Ācchinna. Dāra. Dāra'' means wife, and ''draviṇā'' means money. ''Ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā yāsyanti giri-kānanam.'' They will go in the forest. Then these symptoms are also there.

So in this way there are so many symptoms. It will take long time to describe. This is Kali-yuga. But there is remedy. There is remedy. ''Kaler doṣa-nidhe rājan''. The faults of this age, just like ocean. Just like in the ocean you cannot . . . Pacific Ocean . . . if you are put into the Pacific Ocean, you do not know how your life will be saved. It is very difficult. Even if you are very expert swimmer, so it is not possible that you can cross the Pacific Ocean. That is not possible. Similarly, the Kali-yuga, as it is stated in the ''Bhāgavata'', that infected with so many anomalies that there is no way out. But there is one medicine only: ''kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet'' ([[SB 12.3.51|SB 12.3.51]]). That is also described that, "If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa ''mantra''," ''kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya,'' "especially the name ''kṛṣṇasya, mukta-saṅgaḥ'', you will be relieved from the infection of this Kali-yuga."

(break) The five Pāṇḍavas, ''te sādhu'', they have been described as ''sādhu'', very honest, saintly, ''sādhu. Kṛta-sarvārthāḥ''. They have executed all their duties. The human being has got duty. There are so many duties. ''Devarṣi-bhūtāpta-nṛṇāṁ pitṟṇām'' ([[SB 11.5.41|SB 11.5.41]]). ''Devarṣi''. We have got duties. We are ''ṛṇī. Ṛṇī'' means indebted. Whom we are indebted? As soon as you take your birth on this planet, you are indebted to so many persons. What are they? Now, first, ''deva. Deva'' means the demigods or God. Actually God. God has got many assistant demigods. So you are indebted. Just like you are getting the sunshine. Just like we are getting this electricity. Now, the bill will be presented. If you don't pay, the next day your electricity will be cut off. So the . . . by nature's or God's arrangement, there is sunshine. Therefore you have to perform ''yajña''. If you don't perform ''yajña'', then there will be no sunshine. Therefore in the Western countries there is very difficulty to get sunshine. This is the natural sequence.

So we are indebted to the sun-god. We are indebted to the Indra, who is supplying water. Just like you have got electricity department, water department, this department, so many departments, similarly, so big kingdom of God is going on, there are also different departments. But rascals, they do not know, "Why I am getting?" Just like a child does not know how this electricity is coming. He thinks it is coming automatically. Why automatically? Is it coming automatically? You have to pay for it. There is powerhouse, there is connection, so many things. But he does not know. Similarly, all the rascals, they will say: "Oh, sunshine is by nature, automatically. Moonshine, automatically. This is automatically." What do you mean by "automatically"? What thing happens automatically unless there is arrangement? And because there is so nice, good arrangement, it is to be understood there is good government. And as soon as you accept this, you must have to accept necessity of God, without which, arrangement cannot be done.

So we are debted to God. So just like, if you don't pay taxes to the government, the government does not become poor, but your supply will be stopped. You will suffer. Similarly, if you don't accept there is supreme government, the supreme governor . . . the governor is quite sufficient. God is completely munificent, or rich. He will not suffer, but you will suffer. Therefore it is said, ''te sādhu kṛta-sarvārthāḥ''. Just like if you remain cleansed, paying all your taxes, then you are very honest citizens. Similarly, if you become obedient to God and His government, then you are ''sādhu''. Otherwise you are dishonest. That is explained in the ''Bhagavad-gītā'': ''sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ'' ([[BG 9.30 (1972)|BG 9.30]]). ''Api cet su-durācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk.'' One who is very much obedient to the laws of God, he is ''sādhu''. Not that changing dress one become ''sādhu''.

So ''te sādhu kṛta-sarvārthāḥ''. They have executed all duties. ''Kṛta-sarvārthāḥ. Jñātvā ātyantikam ātmanaḥ.'' We are hankering after happiness, temporary, but we do not know what is ultimate happiness. So they knew what is the ultimate happiness. ''Ātyantikam. Sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriya-grāhyam'' ([[BG 6.20-23 (1972)|BG 6.21]]), ''Bhagavad-gītā''. ''Ātyantikam''. The ultimate happiness is not perceived by these gross material senses. The ultimate happiness is appreciated, understood, by transcendental senses. The same senses . . . means now the senses are covered by material infection. So when you purify this material infection, then your senses become pure. And in that pure senses, you can enjoy . . . (indistinct) . . . real happiness. Therefore here it is said, ''ātyantikam ātmanaḥ manasā dhārayām āsuḥ.''

So they knew what is the ''ātyantikaṁ dhār . . . vaikuṇṭha. Vaikuṇṭha-caraṇāmbujam''. Vaikuṇṭha. ''Vaikuṇṭha'' means ''vigata-kuṇṭha. Kuṇṭha'' means anxiety. And God's another name is Vaikuṇṭha. If you take shelter of the lotus feet of God, Kṛṣṇa, then you become without anxieties. This is the only. Everyone is full of anxiety. Even a bird, even a beast, even a small ant, what to speak of our position. The material world is such, that we must be full of anxieties. That is explained also, ''asad-grahāt.'' Because we have accepted something flickering as shelter. If you accept something which is not permanent, which is tiltering . . . in a boat suppose, which is tiltering, at any moment you will be drowned. So you cannot be free from anxiety. But if you accept a strong, very big ship, you are assured that, "I will not be drowned." Similarly, we are accepting this shelter, that shelter, that shelter, that shelter—avoiding the shelter of God. Therefore we are full of anxiety. If you want to become free from anxiety, then here is the prescription, ''vaikuṇṭha-caraṇāmbujam'': take shelters of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa.

Thank you very much.

'''Devotees:''' ''Jay'' . . . (cut) (end)

770124 - Conversation A - Bhuvanesvara

2024-02-07T04:57:42Z

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771014 - Conversation A - Vrndavana

2024-02-07T04:57:38Z

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751212 - Morning Walk - Vrndavana

2024-02-07T04:57:38Z

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[[Category:1975 - Morning Walks]]
[[Category:1975 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1975 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1975-12 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Morning Walks - India]]
[[Category:Morning Walks - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Hindi Snippets]]
[[Category:Audio Files 45.01 to 60.00 Minutes]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Morning Walks - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Morning Walks - by Date|Morning Walks by Date]], [[:Category:1975 - Morning Walks|1975]]'''</div>
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<div class="center">[[Vanipedia:751212b Morning Walk - Srila Prabhupada Speaks a Nectar Drop in Vrndavana|'''  <big>Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this lecture'''</big>]]</div>


<div class="code">751212MW-VRNDAVAN - December 12, 1975 - 47:47 Minutes</div>

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1975/751212MW-VRNDAVAN.mp3</mp3player>

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . sun globe. You explain to them.

'''Harikeśa:''' Uh . . . we can see there's life in the air, there are fishes in the water and birds in the air. And in the earth there are so many worms and crabs and things like that. We see life in these forms, but why is it not true that we can see life in fire? We can't see life in fire because we haven't the experience. But because there's life in . . .

'''Akṣayānanda:''' If you don't have the experience, it doesn't mean there's no life.

'''Harikeśa:''' Because there's life . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm? Hmm?

'''Akṣayānanda:''' Because we have not experienced, it doesn't mean that there's no life.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. That I have already explained, that you'll see in big, big factories, there is fire. Flame is coming. By seeing the flame, if you think there is no life, is that not nonsense?

'''Harikeśa:''' Oh, you gave the example last night of . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' So many example. You go to the Tata iron factory, from distance you'll see so many fire flames. Does it mean there is no life? That is nonsense.

'''Akṣayānanda:''' Another point is somebody had to light the fire.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Akṣayānanda:''' Somebody must have lit that fire. So similarly, the light of the sun, who has started that light?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Akṣayānanda:''' Somebody has started that light, that fire.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So in this way the nonsense scientists are going on. What do you think? Eh?

'''Harikeśa:''' So this idea of friction causing electricity, so is electricity—this electrical energy—the source of fire? That's what the scientists think sometimes too, that the lightning bolt came down and made a fire. And that was man's first experience of fire as a caveman.

'''Akṣayānanda:''' So where did the lightning bolt come from?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. How the lightning was manufactured, rascal?

'''Harikeśa:''' Well, there were some positive charges in the clouds and some negative charges in the ground.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's all right. Who made that positive charge and negative charge?

'''Akṣayānanda:''' So let them manufacture lightning bolts in the Tata factory.

'''Prabhupāda:''' How the electricity is produced unless there is some arrangement? Just put counter-argument and argument, try to understand. You have to preach. So your argument stopped?

'''Harikeśa:''' I don't know anything about this. (laughter)

'''Prabhupāda:''' You cannot . . . your . . . Mollar dour masjid. (The mullah can exercise his influence only within the mosque.) (to Indian man) Argument chal raha hai. (There is an ongoing argument.) So whether there is life in the sun globe?

'''Indian man:''' Shastra ke adhar par to life hai hi hai, usme kya? (On the basis of the scriptures, there is definitely life in the sun. What is astonishing about that?)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ha. Baki ye log bada bada scientist hai. Ye bolta hai jo udhar . . . (Yes. But these people are big big scientists. They say that . . .)

'''Indian man:''' Ag ka gola hai. (It is just a globe of fire.) (laughter)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ye . . . agni me hai, usme life nahi rehta. Ab ap log vichar kijiye. (There cannot be any life inside the fire. Now you decide.)

'''Indian man:''' Ap to . . . (indistinct) . . . karte hai. Yaha se jo prana jate hai ghumke dui marg hai. Ye surya ke through ya chandrama ke through. To apne yaha to shastra ke hisab se to nischit rup se waha life hai. (You yourself are . . . (indistinct) . . . do it. When the soul departs from this mortal world, it travels by two pathways. One through the sun and another through the moon. So on the basis of our scriptures there is definitely life in the sun.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' To ye shastra nahi mante hai to usko kaise samjhaye? (But if they don't believe in the scriptures, then how to convince them?)

'''Indian man:''' Ye bada takat hoti hai. Bhala hum apki tarah (laughter) . . . humare piche pachas admi chalte (laughter). Itni himmat takat kaha Maharaja? Ap jo . . . (That requires tremendous empowerment. If I could do what you . . . (laughter) . . . there would have been fifty followers walking behind me.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ye jo argument mai de raha hu, common argument, jaisa ye Tata iron factory hai . . . ap kabhi udhar gaye hai? (The argument which I am giving is a very common argument that, just like in the Tata iron factory . . . have you ever gone there?)

'''Indian man:''' Gaye hai. (We have gone there.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' To wo dekhta hai keval flames hai. Agar wo flames se karke koi conclude kare je udhar koi life nahi hai. Ye kya yukti sangat hai? (So one sees only the flames. Then if he concludes by seeing the flames that there is no life inside, is it very logical?)

'''Indian man:''' Magar uske andar to work ho raha hai. (But there is work going on inside.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Work ho raha hai. Isi . . . (indistinct) . . . fire hai agar koi conclude kar le je ye keval fire hai, usme life kaise reh sakta hai. Ye bevakufi hai. (There is work going on inside. On this basis . . . (indistinct) . . . fire is present so someone may conclude that there is no life inside. This is foolishness.)

'''Indian man:''' Thik bat. (Absolutely correct.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Dur se fire dekh karke conclude kar diya jo udhar kuch life nahi hai. (Just by seeing from far away that there is fire all around someone concludes that life cannot be present inside.)

'''Indian man:''' Do bada scientist ne to . . . ek aur maine ek lekh padha, hairan ho gaya. Wo to ye uski life calculate ki gayi, itna jo hai roz burn ho jata hai, to itni itni iski life, itna diameter aur itne how many years ke bad ye jo hai khatam ho jayegi iski. (laughter) Ye hai kuch apne ko . . . samajh me nahi aya ye. (Two big scientists . . . I read one article which left me surprised. They calculated the sun's lifespan, amount of fuel getting burnt everyday, the duration of existence, the diameter etc. (laughter) I could not digest this statement.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ye sab bevakufi hai. (This is all foolishness.)

'''Indian man (2):''' Pehle to ye log vriksho me nahi mante the. (Previously, these people did not even know that trees have life.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

'''Indian man (2):''' Pehle vriksho me nahi mante the jivan. Ab manne lage hai. Aj Surya me nahi mante, aisa ho sakta hai ki kal usi conclusion par a jaye jo ki pehla hai. (Previously, they did not believe that trees have life. Now they accept it. Similarly, they do not accept that there is life in the sun but tomorrow they may arrive at the same conclusion.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Nahi, ane hi padhega. (No, they have to arrive at the same conclusion.)

'''Indian man (2):''' Ab tak ke bahut se inke prayog milte hai aur nishkarsh jo ki bad me ja karke parivartit huye. Vigyan ki sabse badi ek sahi to ye hai ki wo . . . (Until this day, they have performed so many experiments with so many conclusions which get modified later on. One good thing about science is that . . .)

'''Indian man:''' . . . wo parivartanshil . . . (. . . it is favorable to change . . .)

'''Indian man (2):''' . . . parivartan ko saharsh svikar karte hai. (. . . they gladly accept any changes.)

'''Indian man:''' . . . usko man lete hai. Ye beauty hai science ka . . . (. . . accept it. This is the beauty of science that . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Wo parivartanshil mane uska jo gyan hai wo paripakv nahi hai. (It is subject to so many changes because scientific knowledge is imperfect.)

'''Indian man:''' Paripakv nahi, ye to correct hai. Ye to correct hai. Pachaso theory change ho gayi na. Pachaso theory change ho gayi. (It is definitely imperfect. That is true. Fifty theories got completely changed over the years.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yehi bat hai. Uska gyan paripakv hai nahi. (This is the point. Their knowledge is imperfect.)

'''Indian man:''' Mahārāja, mai dus baje au, apko . . . (Mahārāja, shall I come at ten o'clock . . .)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Aiye. (Please come.)

'''Indian man:''' Dus baje. Apko asuvidha to nahi hogi. (At ten o'clock. I hope it will not cause any inconvenience to you.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Nahi. (No.) ''Jaya''.

'''Devotees:''' (men leave) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

'''Harikeśa:''' But the fire and the life is different in the Tata factory.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Harikeśa:''' The fire is different from the life. The fire is produced.

'''Prabhupāda:''' The fire is the same. There is fire. Fire is the same. In the life, the fire is not different.

'''Harikeśa:''' No, what I mean to say in the example, that the people are there and the fire is also there . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Harikeśa:''' So, it may . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Exactly the same way. In the factory there is big fire and there are workers also.

'''Harikeśa:''' But the life is the workers not the fire.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No. I mean to say, in the midst of fire, the living entity can live. That is my argument.

'''Akṣayānanda:''' But they can't jump in the fire and live. They will die.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No. That is material body. Spiritual . . . in the ''Bhagavad-gītā'' there is, it does not burn into fire, in the fire. ''Adāhyaḥ'', ''adāhyaḥ''. So living entity is never burned, even if he's in the fire. So he may have a body of fire, but he does not burn.

'''Akṣayānanda:''' But why should we accept that, because to make our factory we did not need ''Bhagavad-gītā''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

'''Akṣayānanda:''' To make our factory we did not need ''Bhagavad-gītā''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' What is that? To make . . .

'''Akṣayānanda:''' To make the factory . . . we have made such a nice factory for fire, so we did not need to consult ''Bhagavad-gītā'' for that.

'''Prabhupāda:''' I do not follow. What does he say?

'''Harikeśa:''' He's saying he built a factory, but he didn't use ''Bhagavad-gītā'' to do it.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So who says that without ''Bhagavad-gītā'' you cannot ignite fire?

'''Akṣayānanda:''' So why should we accept that the living entity will not die?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, that is authority. If you do not accept, then this is the example, argument. That the factory is surrounded by fire, it does not mean there is no life. From distance . . . you are seeing the sun from a very, very, 95 or 93 million miles away. Fiery it is, undoubtedly, but it is exactly like that—that you see from a distant place. The iron factory, it is simply fiery. Your experience is from distance. You have not gone there. So the distance experience is like this, that you see there is fire, big fire, but still there are life. You have to accept this argument.

'''Harikeśa:''' Actually it's perfectly reasonable.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

'''Harikeśa:''' It's perfectly reasonable.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Harikeśa:''' In the fire there's fiery bodies.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Harikeśa:''' But then that must mean in the water there's watery bodies.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Harikeśa:''' And earth, earthy bodies.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. That is God's creation. Take . . . take out one fish, within five minutes he'll die. And you put yourself in the water, within five minutes you will die. But you are living entity, he is also living entity. His external body is different, your external body is different.

'''Harikeśa:''' But my body is ninety percent water.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Harikeśa:''' My body is ninety percent water. The scientists say that this material body is ninety percent water.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Harikeśa:''' Human body. So I've got a watery body . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ninety percent water?

'''Harikeśa:''' That's what they say.

'''Prabhupāda:''' "They say." They are rascals. (laughter) So much bones and flesh and so many things, others—and ninety percent water.

'''Harikeśa:''' Well, they take a cell, and they say in the cell . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' "They take," they . . . don't quote them, they are all rascals. You come to your own reason. "They say," then you accept them authority. Then why don't you accept authority of ''Bhagavad-gītā'', rascal? You are quoting some rascals and fools, and I am quoting from ''Bhagavad-gītā''. Then whose quotation is favorable? "They say." And when we say: "Kṛṣṇa says," that is nothing. Just see how foolish. "They say." These rascals, meat eaters, huh? Bachelor daddies, (laughter) they say something, that is authority. And Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead says: "Oh, that we cannot accept." Just see, nonsense. That I . . . this argument I put forward with Professor Kotovsky that, "After all, we have to follow leader. So your leader is Lenin, and my leader is Kṛṣṇa. So where is the difference between the process? You have to accept some authority. Now it is to be seen whether Lenin is perfect or Kṛṣṇa is perfect. That is another thing, but you have to follow some authority." So you are stopped.

'''Harikeśa:''' But in science . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Again science.

'''Harikeśa:''' No, as far as the process goes, they are very proud of the fact that there's no authority.

'''Prabhupāda:''' But why you are following? Why you are quoting Newton? You are quoting this scientist, that scientist. Why you are quoting?

'''Harikeśa:''' Well, Newton sat there and saw the apple falling . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' If you don't follow authority, then why you quote so many previous scientists? What is the use of quoting if there is no authority?

'''Harikeśa:''' But the trend is, because Newton speculated the law of gravity . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no, first of all you settle up. Don't go away from the point. (laughter) The point is that there is no need of authority. Then why you quote this scientist, that scientist? You stop this nonsense. There is no authority. Hmm?

'''Harikeśa:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Haṁsadūta?

'''Haṁsadūta:''' Hmm.

'''Prabhupāda:''' If there is no authority, why do you quote so many rascals? Then come to reason, argument, that's all. If you quote authority, I have got my authority.

'''Harikeśa:''' So this fire . . . that makes sense.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Harikeśa:''' This fire, it makes sense, that there's life in fire.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. This is argument. When you do not accept authority, there must be reason and argument.

'''Harikeśa:''' But this ether thing is very troublesome.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Troublesome for you. (laughter)

'''Harikeśa:''' Yes. You said sound is in the ether.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Harikeśa:''' But I couldn't understand how air . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' You have to gain that intelligence.

'''Harikeśa:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Sound is the proof that there is ether. ''Śabda''. Now I am talking, you are hearing. How you are hearing? Ethereal transportation. Otherwise how you can hear? I am talking here, and why you are hearing? This is ethereal. The sound is being produced, somehow or other the ether is passing, just televi . . . what is called? Radio.

'''Harikeśa:''' They heard, people on the earth, talking on the moon.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Harikeśa:''' So it went through the air, it went through the space, sounds.

'''Prabhupāda:''' And the moon says that, "There is no life." Then who is speaking? Nonsense. (laughter) They talk in the moon, and they hear from here, and "There is no life." And we have to take these authorities. (laughter)

'''Akṣayānanda:''' I remember once you said that we may not live in the water, but that doesn't mean there's no such thing as a fish.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Akṣayānanda:''' So that is also a very good argument. I remember you gave that once.

'''Harikeśa:''' So the air is coming from the ether, so . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Because in the air there is sound. Therefore ether is there. It is a production of the ether.

'''Harikeśa:''' So would it be beneficial to try to understand the process of production? Like the example of the earth coming from the water. Because the water evaporates, there is leftover minerals and salts and all these things . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Harikeśa:''' And the fire producing the water from excess heat. Like in the summer season, and then the monsoon comes. But . . . and fire from air, from the friction generating electric current. But the air from the ether needs an example.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Air from the ether because when the air blows, you find the sound, ''sshhhh''. That is ether.

'''Hari-śauri:''' Yeah, like thunder, or . . .

'''Harikeśa:''' But the example's got to go the other way. From the ether comes the air.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That you found out, example. But this is the proof there is ether within the air. That example is given many times in ''Bhagavad-gītā''.

'''Passerby:''' Haribol!

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hare Kṛṣṇa.

'''Haṁsadūta:''' Does it mean beyond the ether there's no sound?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Beyond the ether there is mind, there is mind.

'''Haṁsadūta:''' There's no sound?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, where is the sound of the mind? Everyone knows you have mind, I have mind, but where is the sound of the mind?

'''Harikeśa:''' There's subtle, then, and gross has no realm in the subtle?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, that is finer.

'''Harikeśa:''' So is that example of the space, then the thinner air, and the air, and the water and the earth, and in between electricity . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' The grosser, grosser . . .

'''Harikeśa:''' Is that a good example?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Everything is coming from the subtle form, finer. Finer than the ether is the mind, and finer than the mind is intelligence.

'''Harikeśa:''' Oh, and in the ''Bhāgavatam'' it also says that because the universal form desired to hear, that sound was created, and then the organ for hearing. Like that.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is also created.

'''Harikeśa:''' So . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Just like from ether, sound is created. ''Śabda'', ''sparśa'' . . . ''Śabda'', ''sparśa'', ''rūpa'', ''rasa'', ''gandhaḥ'', these are the five ''parmatra'', object of sense perception. ''Bhūta'', ''pañca parmatra'', ten senses, the mind, and three modes, the material nature. This is the ingredient of the whole creation.

'''Harikeśa:''' So the basic element is the soul's . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Basic element is Kṛṣṇa.

'''Harikeśa:''' And then the spirit soul's desire.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Haṁsadūta:''' And Kṛṣṇa fulfills everyone's desire . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Haṁsadūta:''' . . . by manipulating the energy.

'''Harikeśa:''' So the most subtle form . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' He is also . . . the living entity is creating different body for different enjoyment.

'''Haṁsadūta:''' The living entity?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Haṁsadūta:''' But he can't do it without Kṛṣṇa.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is . . . he is subordinate.

'''Haṁsadūta:''' Just like our hair grows, but we don't know how it's happening.

'''Prabhupāda:''' It is sanctioned. ''Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate'' ([[BG 10.8 (1972)|BG 10.8]]). Everything from Kṛṣṇa.

'''Harikeśa:''' Is the most subtle form of creation the desire of the living entity to enjoy this material world?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Harikeśa:''' And then Kṛṣṇa comes to fulfill it.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Supplies ingredients. Yes.

'''Harikeśa:''' Supplies ingredients. So that desire, that is equivalent to . . . or is that the function of consciousness?

'''Prabhupāda:''' A child wants to play, and the father and mother gives the toys for that play. So without getting help from the father and mother, the child cannot enjoy. Similarly, we may desire, but unless Kṛṣṇa helps us we cannot fulfill our desire.

'''Harikeśa:''' Is desire a function of consciousness?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Unless there is desire, how it is living? It is dead body, stone. Stone has no desire.

'''Harikeśa:''' The spirit soul is . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Therefore, spirit soul is described as superior energy. He desires and he manipulates the matter. ''Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat'' ([[BG 7.5 (1972)|BG 7.5]]).

'''Harikeśa:''' It's very logical, step by step by step by step. Actually, when it's seen from the point of view of the desire of the living entity, it makes perfect sense because he's got these senses and the sound, and then in order to hear, there has to be a vehicle for the sound, and then there has to be an instrument. And then in order to touch, there has to be the vehicle and the . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Harikeśa:''' So therefore, from that point of view, it's very logical.

'''Prabhupāda:''' This is the point you have to . . .

'''Harikeśa:''' Trying to do it the other way is impossible, from the . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Harikeśa:''' Empirical process? I don't know if that's the right word. Inductive reasoning? Deductive reasoning. Impossible.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Deductive reason is possible. Kṛṣṇa says that ''na jāyate na mriyate vā'' ([[BG 2.20 (1972)|BG 2.20]]). This is deductive: you hear from Kṛṣṇa, and this is fact. And if you want to make research how that living entity never takes birth, then it will take time, and at the same it may not be perfect.

'''Harikeśa:''' I finally understood why you were always talking to Svarūpa Dāmodara about inductive and deductive reasoning.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Harikeśa:''' Because it's just not possible to go the other way.

'''Prabhupāda:''' By inductive reason you cannot reach the truth perfectly.

'''Harikeśa:''' Because it's beyond the material creation, and you have to use the material senses and mind to understand. It's not possible.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Therefore, our point is deductive. What Kṛṣṇa says, that is perfect.

'''Harikeśa:''' So first prove the existence of God and the existence of the spirit soul . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Harikeśa:''' . . . and then, they'll just have to explain . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' And then it's creation.

'''Harikeśa:''' And then it's creation. They'll just have to accept they have desires.

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Aham evāsam evāgre'' ([[SB 2.9.33|SB 2.9.33]]). This is the ''Bhāgavata's'' first instruction to Brahmā. ''Aham evāsam agre. Agre'' means in the beginning. So in the beginning Kṛṣṇa was there, then creation took place. Similarly, in the beginning of this body, "I am spirit soul" was there. Then the body comes out. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is there, therefore the whole cosmic manifestation has come about. ''Aham evāsam agre''. And at the end of the creation, Kṛṣṇa is there. Similarly, at the end of this body, I am there. Again I'll create another body. This is going on.

'''Harikeśa:''' It's Kṛṣṇa's trick just to give us this facility.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

'''Harikeśa:''' This is Kṛṣṇa's trick just to give us facility.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Because I wanted it. Kṛṣṇa doesn't want it. But because you are rascals we wanted it. Kṛṣṇa is, "All right, do it."

'''Harikeśa:''' So therefore, in the beginning Kṛṣṇa gives you the big post, Brahmā.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Harikeśa:''' So now you're in charge of creating a whole universe.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. If you want lord it over, "All right, you become Brahmā." He gives so much facility.

'''Harikeśa:''' And then this Brahmā creates so many different desires, and then he goes through all the different bodies.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Akṣayānanda:''' Everyone becomes Brahmā first?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh? Yes. Or if you want to be a cat you can become.

'''Harikeśa:''' How can they say this isn't science? It's so incredible.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Desire is there. Desire is there. Just like in your country the nudyism going on. The desire is, "Ah, I shall remain free, naked." So Kṛṣṇa is giving you facility, "All right, you stand here for thousands of years as tree, naked. Nobody will criticize you. You want to remain naked on the public street, and you want to enjoy in that way, all right, you become tree."

'''Harikeśa:''' Because desire is a function of consciousness, which is a symptom of the spirit soul, it's very powerful.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Harikeśa:''' Because it's spiritual actually.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Therefore it is said, ''anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam'' (Brs. 1.1.11). ''Abhilāṣ'' means desire. ''Anya'' means "Except service of Kṛṣṇa." That is beginning of ''bhakti''. As soon as he desires something material for enjoyment he has to continue. ''Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati'' ([[BG 15.7 (1972)|BG 15.7]]). The mind and the senses; with these things he is struggling for existence. Otherwise he is part and parcel of ''Kṛṣ'' . . . ''mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhutaḥ jīva-loka sanātana'' ([[BG 15.7 (1972)|BG 15.7]]). He is eternal, but because he is influenced by the mind, desires and the senses, sense enjoyment, he is struggling. This is it, a struggle. So when he is too much fatigued, Kṛṣṇa comes and gives you good counsel, "You rascal, give up these all desires. Surrender to Me, I give you protection." But he'll not do that. And if he agrees, then ''anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam'', all material desires, zero. Then ''bhakti'' begins. And if you have got a little pinch of material desires, then you have to accept different types of body. It will create, naturally. ''Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya'' ([[BG 13.22 (1972)|BG 13.22]]). He is desiring under the influence of particular modes of nature, and he's getting body.

'''Harikeśa:''' One has to be very careful.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Otherwise even a devotee like Bharata Mahārāja, he had to accept the body of a deer. A little careless, then nature's law will act. Hmm? If you do not become cautious and if you infect the smallpox disease, you have to suffer. Therefore a civilized man takes process, caution, "Oh there is smallpox disease. I shall not go there. Or if I go there, I must take vaccine." This is human civilization, caution. And if you are animal, you do not know. So human life means not animal life. Very reasonable, very cautious, educated, cultured, that is human life. Not animal life. Drink like animal, or eat like animal, have sex life like animal—freedom. Animal has got all freedom. So that freedom is not allowed to the human being. That is civilization. The same example: The animal has got freedom, and you'll see in Indian market, vegetable market, some cow comes and eats, takes so many vegetable and eats, but he's not going to the court. But if you take one small piece of chili without . . . then you'll go to the court. So therefore law is meant for human beings, not for the animals. Those who want to be free, they are animals. So-called freedom means animalism. That is not humanism. Humanism means to follow the rules and regulation and the laws, and then he is human being. Because law is meant for the human being, not for the animals. And when you come out of your home, immediately the law is "Keep to the right." And if you violate, immediately you go to the law. But a dog, he doesn't care. If you say: "A dog does not obey this law," that is no excuse. You are human being. If you don't obey, then you go to jail. So many animals are on the street naked, they're having sex life, naked. You do, immediately you'll be prosecuted. Why? Because you are a human being. You have to restrain, even if you like. Just like the Hawaii university students, "What is the wrong to become a dog?" So if you think like that, then you become a dog. Nature is ready to give you a dog's body. That is vāsanā. He's thinking, "The dog's life is very nice, this liberation of sex life on the street." "All right, you take dog's body." ''Yaṁ yaṁ vā'' . . . ''Bhāvam'' . . . ah, what is that?

'''Harikeśa:''' ''Smaran bhāvam''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hah. ''Tyajanty ante kalevaram'' ([[BG 8.6 (1972)|BG 8.6]]).

'''Caitya-guru:''' ''Taṁ tam evaiti kaunteya''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hah. "So you are thinking like dog, all right, you take the body of a dog." And finished. Your human life is finished. And again wait for millions of years to come to the human form of life. Nature's law you cannot check. ''Daivī hi eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā'' ([[BG 7.14 (1972)|BG 7.14]]). The law is there. The same example: if you contaminate some disease, the law is you must suffer from that disease. So they are thinking "free." That is their gross ignorance.

'''Hari-śauri:''' It's very important, then, to accept some ''tapasya''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Hari-śauri:''' It's very important to accept some ''tapasya'' to purify your desires.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Yes, that is . . . that requires ''tapasya''. Tapo divyam ([[SB 5.5.1|SB 5.5.1]]). ''Tapasya'' means to purify the desires. ''Tat paratvena nirmalam'' ([[CC Madhya 19.170|CC Madhya 19.170]]). Therefore if you simply keep your desires to the service of Kṛṣṇa, you become purified.

'''Passerby:''' (singing) Govinda hari, ''gopāla''. ''Harer jaya jaya'', ''prabhu dina dayala hari''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hare Kṛṣṇa.

'''Passerby:''' (walking and singing) ''Govinda jaya'', ''gopāla jaya'' . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' This declaration of freedom is animal. Animal free.

'''Passerby:''' Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you. They are struggling for false freedom, which is not freedom. It is becoming entangled. And when we voluntarily give up all freedom—"This is all nonsense. Kṛṣṇa, I surrender unto you," ''bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān'' ([[BG 7.19 (1972)|BG 7.19]])—then he's really wise, when he fully surrenders to Kṛṣṇa.

'''Caitya-guru:''' Then he knows, ''vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti'' ([[BG 7.19 (1972)|BG 7.19]]).

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Otherwise how he'll surrender? He must be convinced that, "Kṛṣṇa is everything, so let me surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Then he is wise. Otherwise he is an animal.

'''Harikeśa:''' A really wise person could understand that there's no choice but to surrender.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. He must. He is already under the control.

'''Harikeśa:''' He's always controlled at every moment.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. But he's . . . he prefers to be controlled by the laws of nature instead of by Kṛṣṇa. That is his misfortune. He is controlled, but he thinks, "I am free." That is ignorance. ''Mūḍha''. Just like I am the state citizen. I am not free. I must work according to the state laws. But he, "I shall . . . I don't care for government." That is my foolishness. You have to care. At home I can say to my wife, "I don't care for government, I don't care for the police." But when there is crime, when the police comes, then he says "Ohh." (pulls a sad face) (laughter) He can be very much proud before his wife, "I don't care for anything." But when the police comes, "What can I do?" Megher kache . . . (Before the cloud . . .) there is an example that the, what is called, ''mūrgī''? What you call? Toast? No. Host? What is called? ''Mūrgī'', ''mūrgī''? Chicken? The male, male?

'''Akṣayānanda:''' Rooster.

'''Haṁsadūta:''' Rooster.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Rooster?

'''Woman:''' Cock?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. So the, when in the morning, it is let loose, then he says: "I don't care for any ''ha-haa'', ''ca-caw''." Then in the evening, when they are pushed into the . . . that what is called? Nest? "''Ca-caw ca-caw''. Whatever you like you can do. Whatever you like you can do." (laughter) This is the example. You see? When he's under the arrest, "Now, sir, whatever you like, you do with me. If you like, you can excuse me." (laughter) And when he's out, (in proud voice) "I don't care for anyone." ''Mūrgī'' intelligence. Rooster intelligence. This is our position: "I don't care for anyone. I am God." The ''mūrgī'' logic. ''Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ'' ([[SB 5.18.12|SB 5.18.12]]). If one is not a devotee, his only business is to remain on the mental platform and concoct things. And at the end he thinks that, "I am God." Concoction. Therefore it is said in the ''śāstra'', ''harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā''. One who is not a devotee, he has no good qualification. He is simply on the . . . hovering on the mental platform.

'''Hari-śauri:''' The Sixteenth Chapter describes it very nicely.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. ''Pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca na vidur āsurāḥ'' ([[BG 16.7 (1972)|BG 16.7]]). In which way we have to direct our activities, and which way we shall have to stop our activities, they do not know. ''Āsurāḥ janā''. Because they don't take direction from God, they make their own way of speculation. So therefore they are animals, or demons. Because they do not take direction during life, therefore at the end Kṛṣṇa comes, ''mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham'' ([[BG 10.34 (1972)|BG 10.34]]). All mental speculation, creation, is taken away at death. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) In Bengal it is said, ''kṛṣṇa nama koro vai ar sabe miche palaiba patha nāi yama āche piche'': Take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Don't try to escape. Because behind you there is Yamaraja. (laughs) He will finish your all concoction. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

(temple bell rings) (''kīrtana'')

'''Haṁsadūta:''' ''Haribol''. (end)

770219 - Conversation C - Mayapur

2024-02-07T04:57:19Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"

[[Category:1977 - Conversations]]
[[Category:1977 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1977 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1977-02 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Conversations - India]]
[[Category:Conversations - India, Mayapur]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Mayapur]]
[[Category:Audio Files 10.01 to 20.00 Minutes]]
[[Category:1977 - New Audio - Released in July 2012]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Bengali Snippets]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Conversations - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Conversations - by Date|Conversations by Date]], [[:Category:1977 - Conversations|1977]]'''</div>
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<div class="center">[[Vanipedia:770219b - Conversation - Srila Prabhupada Speaks a Nectar Drop in Mayapur|'''  <big>Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this lecture'''</big>]]</div>


<div class="code">770219R3-MAYAPUR - February 19, 1977 - 14:54 Minutes</div>

<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1977/770219R3-MAYAPUR.mp3</mp3player>

'''Prabhupāda:''' Now nobody can. After, no ''darśana''.

'''Hari-śauri:''' I told him ''darśana's ''finished.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. That's all. Where is Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

'''Ādi-keśava:''' I don't know.

'''Satsvarūpa:''' Shall I call him?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no.

'''Ādi-keśava:''' I was wondering. I've been . . . while in New York I've been worshiping the Deities, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, but now, because of this case, I'm forced to travel more between some of the temples, because of the legal work. So I was thinking to take some Deities with me to worship wherever I go.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no. ''Sannyāsī ''is not required.

'''Ādi-keśava:''' All right.

'''Bhakti-caru:''' Are there any mūrti, having?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No. A ''sannyāsī ''is not required. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was traveling, He was not carrying any Deity. Deity worship is specially recommended for the ''gṛhasthas''. That is compulsory.

'''Ādi-keśava:''' In the temples we should always recommend the ''gṛhasthas ''to worship the Deity.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. Just like our Rādhā-Dāmodara temple, it was established . . . this temple was established by Jīva Gosvāmī. He was ''brahmacārī''. So how these ''gosvāmīs'', they are worshiping? He had no sons. It was . . . the temple was established by him, but the worship was transferred to the ''gṛhastha bhaktas''. So they are doing by generation. All these Vṛndāvana temples—Govindajī temple, Rādhā-Ramaṇa temple, Rādhā-Dāmodara. Rādhā-Ramaṇa temple, he was also ''brahmacārī'', Gopāla Bhaṭṭa. He did not marry. Jīva Gosvāmī was ''brahmacārī''. Sanātana Gosvāmī and Rūpa Gosvāmī, they ''sannyāsīs''. So how these ''gṛhasthas ''got this ''sevā''? They were disciples, that's all, ''gṛhasthas''. So ''gṛhastha ''disciples are meant for worshiping Deity. And others, they are meant for preaching. This is the primary principle. So if you are engaged in preaching . . . Deity worship, it must be done in scheduled time: this time, this time, this time. Then that is very difficult for you. Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not do that. He was traveling alone, preaching, preaching. So it will be great burden to carry Deity. But in preaching work, when you are many, you are carrying Deity in the bus. That is good; there are others, some nice engage . . . that is temple life. But personally if you carry some Deity, it will be troublesome. It will be hampering your preaching work.

'''Ādi-keśava:''' What about in the temples, when we're visiting the temples? The temples we're visiting now . . . you know, that book that Jayatīrtha was making on Deity worship following from the ''Hari-bhakti-vilāsa'', he told me he is making on your order to make a standard of Deity worship. That is the standard we should be advising the temples to follow?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Make it simplified. At the present moment, especially in the Western countries, it is not possible to follow very elaborate program. But what I have given already, that is sufficient—six times worshiping, ''ārati'', just like here going on, just like the same program. Not to make it difficult thing, because with the advancement of Kali-yuga, more difficulties are coming. So simple. Things should be simplified. That is wanted. (break) Go on preaching from one place to another, another place. ''Mahā-vicalanam ''([[SB 10.8.4|SB 10.8.4]]). ''Mahātmās ''should walk. ''Vicalanam'', "Movement." Just like I was in Vṛndāvana. If I had not moved, then this movement would not have been started. Because I moved, at the age of seventy years, something is now tangible. So similarly, every ''sannyāsī ''should move from place to place. Parivrājakācārya, that is . . . ''ācārya ''means teacher, and ''parivrāja'', "Movement." Bhavānanda Mahārāja has become very popular in Bengal. You can move from village to village. People will like you. You can speak little Bengali?

'''Bhavānanda:''' Little bit.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is all right.

'''Bhavānanda:''' Just ''ek arci''. Cesta korchi. (I am trying.)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Tumi keman āche? (How are you?) (laughter) That's . . . āmi bāṅgalā bhalo bolte pari na. (I can't speak Bengali very well.) They like it, to hear. There is nothing new. If you simply . . . you can read Bengali also?

'''Bhavānanda:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's all right. Then ''Bhagavad-gītā'', that's all. People like ''ācāra'', behavior. That is main thing. And nobody wants to check you, whether you know Bengali or Hindi. They see the person that, "Here is a Vaiṣṇava." Oh, then it is all right.

'''Bhavānanda:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda, tomorrow's program . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. So Acyutānanda has come. You all ''sannyāsīs ''may, one or two, remain here. And ''kīrtana ''party—Acyutānanda, he has got minibus.

'''Bhavānanda:''' Yes, I was going to fill the bus and Your Divine Grace's car and one Abhirāma's car. Jayapatākā Mahārāja is in Calcutta, and he's returning tomorrow morning, so he thought that he would stop in Chakdaha.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's all right.

'''Bhavānanda:''' But we're very, very busy, Jayapatākā and I, because the festival is coming up. Would it be all right if I stayed back? I make all the arrangements, but stay behind to supervise it?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, as you think best. (break) . . . heavy duty, to fight with the demons. (chuckles) So on the whole, our book sale is hampered or not for this propaganda?

'''Tripurāri:''' I don't think so.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is . . . then it our triumph. You don't mind all this.

'''Ādi-keśava:''' In some way I think it improves it . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Improves. (chuckling)

'''Ādi-keśava:''' . . . because everyone is hearing about Kṛṣṇa.

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is our gain. I think it will improve our position.

'''Tripurāri:''' Improve our position.

'''Prabhupāda:''' By this agitation our position will be improved. Prahlāda Mahārāja was suppressed in so many means. What was loss on his part? He improved more and more, more and more. If Christ was not crucified, then his cult would not have spread so much all over the world. The Christian cult was spread all over the world after demise of Christ, not during his time. Is it not?

'''Satsvarūpa:''' Yes. The history was that there were many . . . at that time there many, many cults, and that was just another cult during the Roman Empire. And then that cult became very, very dominant.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Because he was persecuted, his cult became so spread.

'''Devotee:''' In Brazil, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we made a twenty minutes' program in television, very, very nice.

'''Prabhupāda:''' In Brazil.

'''Devotee:''' Yes. Very many saw that. All, the whole Brazil saw that, Pañca-tattva . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' They have captured our books?

'''Devotee:''' In Argentina. Argentina is a different mode, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Very, very . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Why? Argentina is a Communist country?

'''Devotee:''' No. They're like a Third World country, Third World. There's a lot of Communists inside the country.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Third World? What is that?

'''Hari-śauri:''' Third World. They refer to the Arab republics, like that. They call them the Third World.

'''Devotee:''' They don't participate with the Communist countries, and they also doesn't participate up there, United . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Third World? We have no place there? We want Fourth World? Or what is that? (laughter)

'''Tripurāri:''' I think there is more animal slaughter in Argentina than anywhere in the world.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Most sinful.

'''Ādi-keśava:''' That is the national industry there, cattle slaughter.

'''Prabhupāda:''' It has become national industry in Africa also.

'''Hari-śauri:''' And Australia . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Australia.

'''Hari-śauri:''' . . . New Zealand.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Therefore the world is suffering, so much sinful activities. The greatest sinful activity is cow slaughter, and they are committing. They do not know what will be the result. Such brain, stool, stool-bound brain. Thorough overhaul is required. That we are doing. Otherwise the stool cannot be cleansed.

Jal korar banda basta sob hoye geche? (Has the settlement of water been done?)

'''Indian man:''' . . . (indistinct Bengali)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yakhan hoye yabe . . . (indistinct) . . . kaler kache. (When will it be done . . . (indistinct) . . . near the tube well.) (end)

771106 - Conversation C - Vrndavana

2024-02-07T04:57:15Z

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "#ff9933" to "#ec710e"