View source for 701215 - Conversation - Indore

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[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Indore]]
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<div class="code">701215R1-INDORE - December 15, 1970 - 29:06 Minutes</div>


<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1970/701215R1-INDORE.mp3</mp3player>


'''Prabhupāda:''' So Mr. Agarwal, he shall stay with us, 'til night?

'''Devotee:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' He will remain here?

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' I will go home and come back.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Come back?

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then I have some important talks with you.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' I see . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. And the first thing is that we have been promised Life Membership by about fourteen, fifteen men. Out of that, we have collected about less than half.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' (indistinct) . . . yesterday I phoned . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' What is the name of your brother-in-law? That grain merchant.

'''Indian lady:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' So has he paid something?

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' No, he is out of station.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, he promised.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' He said . . . no, no, I have talked with him at present. He said: "I don't want to become a member . . . (indistinct) . . ."

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

Haṁsadūta: He says he doesn't want to become a member but he will . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Just see.

'''Indian man:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' So let him make some member . . . (indistinct) . . . like that.

'''Indian man:''' Yes . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' So one thing, now there are so many promises. So is it possible to collect from them?

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Haṁsadūta:''' No, no . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. So now the question is that do you think that to collect all this promised money, you will, be able?

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' (indistinct) . . . and phoned to make an appointment. Now this, eh . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, I mean to say whether they are hopeless.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' I see.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then . . .

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' (indistinct) . . . and then we were not informed . . . (indistinct) . . . what else can you do those to you who have promised Life Membership of this . . . (indistinct) . . . become either a subscriber member or a donor member, if not Life Member . . . (indistinct) . . . something has to be sorted . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' So for this purpose is it necessary that he should remain? Or . . .?

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' Remain.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, that's all right.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' I have contacted . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, then give him the addresses.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, they . . . they can . . .

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' They can pay something to you directly.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Haṁsadūta:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' (indistinct) . . . I'd like to make this person . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. So for the time being give him our Bombay address.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' Bombay . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. That will do. Now this morning I wanted to see that land, and I want to take you there. So in my absence . . . you can do it. Another thing that, ah, Sarmistha, Queen Sarmistha, Halkar, so she also promised some help, but there is no . . . we can contact her? By phone?

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Now the . . . is it possible to see her today?

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' We can try.

'''Prabhupāda:''' So why not try for that? If both of them, both the husband and wife promised that, "I shall consider." I requested them to purchase a house for us. That . . . what is that?

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' Samarji.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Samarji. Of course, I don't think that . . .

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' Samarji . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Not here.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' So whatever he gives, we can accept. Something is better than . . .

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, we saw them. There was ''kīrtana''.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' Two nights ago . . . (indistinct) . . . I phoned . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . to take an appointment to see . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Today?

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' Yes.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, why not?

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' (indistinct) . . . appointment . . . (indistinct) . . . phoned . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm . . . but do they . . .

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' And it would mean that this man . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Marwari, yes. So he's not coming?

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' I told him. I have seen his place.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' I have known him. He was . . . (indistinct) . . . last year.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' So he's not . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' But he's not personally presenting.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' He's not, yes. (laughs) He's a monies man . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Monies man, oh.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' He wants to develop abroad . . . (indistinct) . . . and central India . . . (indistinct) . . . district . . . (indistinct) . . . and to make some money.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, that is . . . that was his purpose.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' (indistinct) . . . from here. I'm going . . . (indistinct) . . . that is the purpose and . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' So?

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' <span style="color:#ec710e">Theek hai</span> <span style="color:#128807">(Alright.)</span>

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' (indistinct) . . . some one thousand people . . . (indistinct) . . . at his temple . . . (indistinct) . . . then he will call my name to come . . . (indistinct) . . . we can come . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' (indistinct) . . . so he became more and more materialistic and . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. If people go there for some material benefits . . . nobody goes . . .

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' Nobody goes for God.

'''Prabhupāda:''' You see?

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' The president also . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' That's all. Therefore people . . .

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Therefore people are becoming atheist. Suppose you go somewhere for some material benefit, and if you do not get it, naturally you become faithless, "Ah, what is this nonsense?" Therefore ''bhakti'' is ''anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam'' (Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.1.11).

One should approach God without any material desires, ''anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam''. Simply one has to approach God, ''ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam'' . . . (indistinct) . . . without any cause. That is ''bhakti''. This is not ''bhakti'', this is business.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' Yes . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' (laughs) Yes. When Prahlāda Mahārāja was offered benediction, so he said these very words that, "Am I a mercantile man, ''vaṇīya'', ''baṇik'', that I have to ask from You something by giving You service? So don't allure me Sir, in this way."

This is ''śuddha''-''bhakta''. Yes. "We were born in a demonic family, and naturally inclined for material enjoyment, and Your Lordship can give me anything, I know, if I ask. So naturally I will be allured to ask from You . . ."

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' I was . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' Suppose I am going to Indore . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' Or . . . (indistinct) . . . I asked him to give me that confidential member . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. You should not ask anything.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' No?

'''Prabhupāda:''' No.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' This is also ''bhajan''.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Why should you desire . . . (indistinct) . . . eh? ''yad bhāvyaṁ tad bhavatu'' (Mukunda-mālā-stotra 5): "Whatever it has to be happen, let it happen."

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' ''Rāmāyaṇa'' says . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Rāmāyaṇa'', means that it is Tulsī dāsa's ''Rāmāyaṇa''.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' (indistinct) . . . ''bhakti'' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' No, ''bhakti'' is not demand. That is to put oneself in his natural position. That is not demand.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' Oh.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, that is . . . because . . .

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . our constitutional because . . .

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' (indistinct) . . . my life . . . (indistinct) . . . desires, how can I get without . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' So whatever our . . . (indistinct) . . . suppose I get . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is ''dharma-artha-kāma-mokṣa'' ([[SB 4.8.41|SB 4.8.41]]). That is ''catur-varga''. But ''bhakti'' is above that.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' Ah, ''bhakti'' is . . .

'''Prabhupāda:''' Above that. A ''bhakta'' does not even desire for ''mokṣa''.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' Ah, he doesn't desire.

'''Prabhupāda:''' No. He does not desire, desire even . . .

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah. That is real ''bhakti''.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Bās, that is it. ''Mama janmani janmanīśvare'' (Śikṣāṣṭaka 4). I was explaining this verse . . .

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' Yesterday.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. That is ''bhakti''.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is not demand, that is your natural position. You are eternal servant of God. Now, somehow or other, under the influence of this material existence, you are thinking otherwise. Somebody is thinking that, "I am master of this family" . . . somebody is thinking master of community, of . . . they are thinking the . . . in terms of becoming master.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. That is our material life. ''Kṛṣṇa bhūliya jīva bhoga-vāñchā kare'' (Prema-vivarta). Master means enjoy. That is material life. So he has to work off that mentality. ''Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁśaraṇaṁ vraja'' ([[BG 18.66 (1972)|BG 18.66]]).

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah. That is ''bhakti''. So long we think of becoming master, that is materialist. If one thinks, "Oh, I have become spiritual master and have so many disciples, they are my servants," and that is also material. Therefore according to our Vaiṣṇava, the address is ''prabhu''. Even a spiritual master addresses the disciple as ''prabhu''. This very mentality to become master is material. Because he is servant.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' ''Dāsa'' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' He is eternally servant. In the mistaken idea of becoming master he is serving ''māyā''. Just like you are the master of your family, but actually you are serving. But you are thinking, "I am master of this family." And to be . . . by becoming a false master, your whole life you have to serve your wife, your children, your grandson, your family, your brother . . .

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' (laughs) Actually he is serving, but he is thinking . . .

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' (indistinct) . . . ''moham'' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Janasya moho 'yam'' it is called. In the ''Bhāgavata'' it is said, ''gṛha'' . . . ''ato gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair janasya moho 'yam'' ([[SB 5.5.8|SB 5.5.8]]). It is ''moho''. That is illusion.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' (indistinct) . . . suppose if someone wants to have your ''darśana'' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. Yes.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. No, if some arrangement is made here, then I shall open a branch here, and I shall train up your . . .

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. So I have . . . I have asked them to give me a plot and a temple, and other buildings I shall collect money and do. That I have proposed.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. So in case they do that, then I give you two or three assistants and you help. Hmm?

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' And this pure Kṛṣṇa consciousness we shall develop. And another gentleman was proposing that "Instead of opening another center, why don't you do your activities in the Gītā Bhavan?" That is not possible. It is hodge podge.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' Some propaganda from this platform.

'''Prabhupāda:''' From which platform?

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' From Gītā Bhavan.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah, yes.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' <span style="color:#ec710e">Aayiye.</span> <span style="color:#128807">(Please come.)</span> . . . I was just thinking of you.

'''Indian man (2):''' (indistinct) . . . the doctor . . . (indistinct) . . . it is not possible . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah. Oh.

'''Indian man (2):''' (indistinct) . . . so I have come, because it is not possible you and Dr. Gupta would see this today . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm.

'''Indian man (2):''' He will come some other . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' What he will do at this stage? He will not forbid.

'''Indian man (2):''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm. That's all right.

'''Indian man (2):''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Don't be puzzled, because death . . . everyone will die today or tomorrow. Try to enlighten her with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's all.

'''Indian man (2):''' I will . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Let her chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. It doesn't matter whether she dies or not. Let her chant so long she lives. That is nice. So most . . . we are arranging to go to Surat.

'''Indian man (2):''' Surat.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Indian man (2):''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' So what about this Sarmistha? Halkar?

'''Indian man (2):''' Sarmistha Halkar I can get (indistinct) because we were always . . . (indistinct) . . . but if you want a bigger amount, then you will have to meet . . . (indistinct) . . . wait and see. Three times she sent me . . . (indistinct) . . . fourth . . . (indistinct) . . . at two o'clock . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' So why don't you send . . .

'''Indian man (2):''' (indistinct) . . . 1,000, 5,000 rupees . . . (indistinct) . . . then take money from him . . . (indistinct) . . . so . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' So how to contact her?

'''Indian man (2):''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah. Both of them promised that "We shall consider."

'''Indian man (2):''' Ah? . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' (laughs) So what shall I do now? Shall I try to contact?

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' (indistinct) . . . we shall phone her . . . (indistinct) . . . and we shall arrange it . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' <span style="color:#ec710e">Aayiye.</span> <span style="color:#128807">(Please come.)</span> . . . I was just thinking of you.

'''Indian man (2):''' (indistinct) . . . I told him that . . . (indistinct) . . . I said: "How can I say something about it?" Because . . . (indistinct) . . . get some money . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' So then best thing is to why not call Mr. Karmita, Mr. Karmita call and ask, remind him what . . .

'''Indian man (2):''' Ah . . . (indistinct) . . . if I have to leave I have to go . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Then I think these girls can call, because . . .

'''Indian man (2):''' (indistinct) . . . Karmita . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' All right. That's all right.

'''Indian man (2):''' And what about our . . . (indistinct) . . . ''mātājī''?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

'''Indian man (2):''' The other mātājī . . . (indistinct) . . . twelve o'clock this morning . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, the idea is . . . (indistinct)

'''Indian man (2):''' Eh?

'''Prabhupāda:''' . . . that Mathura. Muk . . . Muk . . . Mukan. We are going . . . you mean to say about that house?

'''Indian man (2):''' Ah.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah, he is asking fancy price.

'''Indian man (2):''' Ah . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' That is a . . .

'''Indian man (2):''' (indistinct) . . . I told him . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' So that is hopeless.

'''Indian man (2):''' Ah.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Best thing is to remain stopped, as he told me.

'''Indian man (2):''' Ah. That is right, because . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' And he has no customer.

'''Indian man (2):''' No, no. Customer is impossible to find . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' So then we stop for the time.

'''Indian man (2):''' (indistinct) . . . customer . . . (indistinct) . . . government . . . (indistinct) . . . because the government . . . (indistinct) . . . so now . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' That doesn't matter. You attempt; you ask, induce her to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

'''Indian man (2):''' Ah.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Take this flower, give her. So if you are very anxious, you can go.

'''Indian man (2):''' And if you . . . (indistinct) . . . you will send a message to . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' All right.

'''Indian man (2):''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, thank you. That's all right.

'''Indian man (2):''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' All right.

'''Indian man (2):''' Ah . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' It is very good that she knows you very well.

'''Indian man (2):''' (indistinct) . . . she knows that I was to go, six months back . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. All right. ''Jaya''. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

'''Indian man (2):''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Take your ''dhoti'' in (laughs). It is very kind of you, you have come.

'''Indian man (2):''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' So now we have got permission to contact them. That's all.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' (indistinct) . . . desire is for (indistinct) some big agenda . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes I saw, it is very . . .

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' And he's very much impressed with our activities. Hmm.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' You can make an appointment and then come there . . . (indistinct) . . . if you want a room . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' (indistinct) . . . temple . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' It is authorized and pure. That is shall try to understand, that this is not a bogus movement.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' No, no.

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. It is authorized and pure.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' I have become a member . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, (laughs) but I cannot. It is very kind of you. There is no other motive. It is pure ''bhakti'', ''anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam'' ([[CC Madhya 19.167|CC Madhya 19.167]]).

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' <span style="color:#ec710e">Ye udeshya nahi hai ki dhong karke kuch rupiya kamana hai.</span> <span style="color:#128807">(The motive is not to cheat and earn some money.)</span>

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' <span style="color:#ec710e">Dhong bataa karke kuch rupiya le lena hai, yehi chal raha hai.</span> <span style="color:#128807">(Cheat and take some money, this is what is going on.)</span>

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' <span style="color:#ec710e">Kisee se baat karana . . . (indistinct) . . . kuchh paisa kama raha hai.</span> <span style="color:#128807">(Talking with someone . . . (indistinct) . . . earning some money.)</span>

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' <span style="color:#ec710e">Theek hai</span> <span style="color:#128807">(Alright.)</span>

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' Yesterday . . . because our this yesterday program was to take . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' <span style="color:#ec710e">Theek hai</span> <span style="color:#128807">(Alright.)</span>

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' No . . . (break) that you construct the room, that is desire for you so long you live. And after your death, it becomes to this ashram.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' (indistinct) . . . within one year . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Yes.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. (break) One Mr. Vikram Singh. He has house in the city, he has at least forty, fifty cows.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' (indistinct) . . . a man. He, has got cars and everything is there.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' . . . (indistinct)

'''Prabhupāda:''' He has faithful sons. It was a sport for the boys.

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' Eh?

'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, the little boys, they go with the calves, in a different way. And the elderly boys, they take the cows and . . .

'''Mr. Agarwal:''' (indistinct) . . . (break) . . . (indistinct) . . . (end)