711212 - Conversation - Delhi - Revision history

RasaRasika at 05:13, 8 January 2024

2024-01-08T05:13:34Z

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	'''Devotee:''' Yes.		'''Devotee:''' Yes.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' You take grains, just like paddy or wheat. These plants, after producing the fruit, the grain, automatically they die. You are not killing. So those who are taking fruits, vegetable, grains, they are not actually killing. You take the milk . . . what is milk? Milk is transformation of the blood. So cow's milk means cow's blood, but still the cow is not killed. Cow's blood is nutritious, accepting this theory. ''Karnish'', ''karnish'' it is called? Cow's blood? What is the meaning of ''karnish''~~(?)~~? But by nature's way she is delivering you the blood, which is nutritious according to your science—but why you should kill her?		'''Prabhupāda:''' You take grains, just like paddy or wheat. These plants, after producing the fruit, the grain, automatically they die. You are not killing. So those who are taking fruits, vegetable, grains, they are not actually killing. You take the milk . . . what is milk? Milk is transformation of the blood. So cow's milk means cow's blood, but still the cow is not killed. Cow's blood is nutritious, accepting this theory. ''Karnish'', ''karnish'' it is called? Cow's blood? What is the meaning of ''karnish''? But by nature's way she is delivering you the blood, which is nutritious according to your science—but why you should kill her?

	So any circumstances, the direct killing is not approved by any ''śāstra'', any religion. ''Jīva hiṁsā.'' Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says, ''niṣiddhācāra jīva-hiṁsā'' ([[CC Madhya 19.159\|CC Madhya 19.159]]). So ''jiva hiṁsā'', violence upon other animals, that is against Vaiṣṇava principle. You cannot be violent. You cannot kill.		So any circumstances, the direct killing is not approved by any ''śāstra'', any religion. ''Jīva hiṁsā.'' Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says, ''niṣiddhācāra jīva-hiṁsā'' ([[CC Madhya 19.159\|CC Madhya 19.159]]). So ''jiva hiṁsā'', violence upon other animals, that is against Vaiṣṇava principle. You cannot be violent. You cannot kill.

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:" to "'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:'''"

2023-08-31T03:11:54Z

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RasaRasika: Text replacement - "Śyāmasundara:" to "'''Śyāmasundara:'''"

2023-08-31T03:11:45Z

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	So if we say that this is the real religion, is there anything wrong there? What possible protest they can offer when I say this is the religion?		So if we say that this is the real religion, is there anything wrong there? What possible protest they can offer when I say this is the religion?

	Śyāmasundara: Sometimes the Christians, they say that "According to our scriptures, that Christ is the only way. And unless one is worshiping God through Christ, that is heathenism."		'''Śyāmasundara:''' Sometimes the Christians, they say that "According to our scriptures, that Christ is the only way. And unless one is worshiping God through Christ, that is heathenism."

	'''Prabhupāda:''' So what Christ teaches? Let us see what Christ teaches, then we can understand whether only through Christ we can . . . what is his teaching?		'''Prabhupāda:''' So what Christ teaches? Let us see what Christ teaches, then we can understand whether only through Christ we can . . . what is his teaching?
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	'''Gurudas:''' But if there's no vegetables, you have to eat something.		'''Gurudas:''' But if there's no vegetables, you have to eat something.

	Śyāmasundara: I read an article once that said . . .		'''Śyāmasundara:''' I read an article once that said . . .

	'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no. The thing is that one has to eat. And whatever you eat, that is coming out of some living entity, even if you eat vegetables. The vegetable has also life, the tree, the plant. So the real explanation is that you take which is offered to Kṛṣṇa. That is nice philosophy. Killing you have to do. Either you kill vegetable or animal, killing you have to do. Therefore our proposition is that you take the ''prasādam'' of Kṛṣṇa, so if killing is bad, then the responsibility goes to Kṛṣṇa. We take Kṛṣṇa's ''prasādam''.		'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no. The thing is that one has to eat. And whatever you eat, that is coming out of some living entity, even if you eat vegetables. The vegetable has also life, the tree, the plant. So the real explanation is that you take which is offered to Kṛṣṇa. That is nice philosophy. Killing you have to do. Either you kill vegetable or animal, killing you have to do. Therefore our proposition is that you take the ''prasādam'' of Kṛṣṇa, so if killing is bad, then the responsibility goes to Kṛṣṇa. We take Kṛṣṇa's ''prasādam''.
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	'''Devotee:''' That's just their standpoint . . . (indistinct) . . . I don't mean to argue.		'''Devotee:''' That's just their standpoint . . . (indistinct) . . . I don't mean to argue.

	Śyāmasundara: The knowledge that we have of Jesus was not direct, but it was written down up to a hundred or two hundred years later in another language, called Aramaic, and scholars recently have discovered that wherever Jesus refers to fish, distributing fish, that that word actually refers to a type of sea plant that grows in the Sea of Galilee, which they make a type of bread out of. And it's not really fish but a type of vegetarian bread. This is what I read in an article. So, we don't have . . . (laughter)		'''Śyāmasundara:''' The knowledge that we have of Jesus was not direct, but it was written down up to a hundred or two hundred years later in another language, called Aramaic, and scholars recently have discovered that wherever Jesus refers to fish, distributing fish, that that word actually refers to a type of sea plant that grows in the Sea of Galilee, which they make a type of bread out of. And it's not really fish but a type of vegetarian bread. This is what I read in an article. So, we don't have . . . (laughter)

	'''Lady devotee:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda, there was a fish on Lakṣmī's hand yesterday. The Deities in the temple, where Lakṣmī had her hand up like this, there was a fish here across her hand. What is this?		'''Lady devotee:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda, there was a fish on Lakṣmī's hand yesterday. The Deities in the temple, where Lakṣmī had her hand up like this, there was a fish here across her hand. What is this?

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2023-08-31T03:03:22Z

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2023-08-31T02:53:18Z

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	'''Prabhupāda:''' Well, liberation not always means that he goes directly. In the lower stage, liberation means to come out of the lower stage to the human form of body. Then he gets chance for directly serving Kṛṣṇa, then real liberation takes . . . (break)		'''Prabhupāda:''' Well, liberation not always means that he goes directly. In the lower stage, liberation means to come out of the lower stage to the human form of body. Then he gets chance for directly serving Kṛṣṇa, then real liberation takes . . . (break)

	Guest: . . . and I would like to invite . . .		'''Guest:''' . . . and I would like to invite . . .

	'''Prabhupāda:''' All right. (cut) (end)		'''Prabhupāda:''' All right. (cut) (end)

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2023-08-31T02:23:34Z

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RasaRasika: Text replacement - "Lady devotee (1):" to "'''Lady devotee (1):'''"

2023-08-31T02:19:06Z

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	'''Prabhupāda:''' So what Christ teaches? Let us see what Christ teaches, then we can understand whether only through Christ we can . . . what is his teaching?		'''Prabhupāda:''' So what Christ teaches? Let us see what Christ teaches, then we can understand whether only through Christ we can . . . what is his teaching?

	Lady devotee (1): His first teaching is that "Love the Lord thy God with all they heart, with all thy might, with all thy . . . (indistinct) . . ."		'''Lady devotee (1):''' His first teaching is that "Love the Lord thy God with all they heart, with all thy might, with all thy . . . (indistinct) . . ."

	'''Prabhupāda:''' That's nice.		'''Prabhupāda:''' That's nice.
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	'''Prabhupāda:''' That's nice. But they do not follow, and still they say they are Christians. They do not follow. Christ is all right. According to the time, according to the country, according to the atmosphere, he's all right, but the followers, they reject.		'''Prabhupāda:''' That's nice. But they do not follow, and still they say they are Christians. They do not follow. Christ is all right. According to the time, according to the country, according to the atmosphere, he's all right, but the followers, they reject.

	Lady devotee (1): The followers try to make everyone fear God. Their whole aim is to make everyone so much afraid. They always try to instill fear in everyone that they speak to. "You are going to burn in hell."		'''Lady devotee (1):''' The followers try to make everyone fear God. Their whole aim is to make everyone so much afraid. They always try to instill fear in everyone that they speak to. "You are going to burn in hell."

	Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is the principle of eternal hell that is used to make people surrender: fear of eternal hell.		Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is the principle of eternal hell that is used to make people surrender: fear of eternal hell.
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	'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.		'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

	Lady devotee (1): Fear of God.		'''Lady devotee (1):''' Fear of God.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' According to time . . . ''deśa-kāla-pātra''. That kind of forceful does not act very nicely. One should know the science, but the class of men to whom Jesus Christ said, they are not very much advanced. Under the circumstances, the fearfulness of hell is quite appropriate for them.		'''Prabhupāda:''' According to time . . . ''deśa-kāla-pātra''. That kind of forceful does not act very nicely. One should know the science, but the class of men to whom Jesus Christ said, they are not very much advanced. Under the circumstances, the fearfulness of hell is quite appropriate for them.
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	Devotee: Yes.		Devotee: Yes.

	Lady devotee (1): They say all our sins have been washed away by the blood of Jesus. (break)		'''Lady devotee (1):''' They say all our sins have been washed away by the blood of Jesus. (break)

	Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I know, Prabhupāda, that in Seattle you had me lecture on a newspaper clipping that in New Jersey they had opened up one home for alcoholic priests. (laughter)		Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I know, Prabhupāda, that in Seattle you had me lecture on a newspaper clipping that in New Jersey they had opened up one home for alcoholic priests. (laughter)
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	Gurudas: And also Lord Jesus says that if there is unnecessary killing of animal that, "By my hand you shall be slain." In Genesis. He is stating, "Yes, one may kill, but if there is unnecessary killing, by my hand you shall be slain." In Genesis.		Gurudas: And also Lord Jesus says that if there is unnecessary killing of animal that, "By my hand you shall be slain." In Genesis. He is stating, "Yes, one may kill, but if there is unnecessary killing, by my hand you shall be slain." In Genesis.

	Lady devotee (1): Also, in Genesis is says that, "The fruits and the herbs of the land shall be your meat." It's describing how man should live, and it says: "The fruits and herbs of the land shall be your meat."		'''Lady devotee (1):''' Also, in Genesis is says that, "The fruits and the herbs of the land shall be your meat." It's describing how man should live, and it says: "The fruits and herbs of the land shall be your meat."

	'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, they were meat-eaters, so Jesus Christ replies that fruit should be your meat.		'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, they were meat-eaters, so Jesus Christ replies that fruit should be your meat.
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	Devotee: The whole key is that . . . (indistinct) . . . Jesus in one of his first meetings said that, "Disregard everything that has been taught in the past and listen to me." He speaks so many things, and he does not lay out so many basic principles about the eating of flesh, having illicit sex connections and so many things. He speaks just slightly touching the subject. He doesn't really give any basic principles. So they always say: "Well, it's okay to do this, it's okay to do that, because Jesus said: 'Forget everything that was said in the past.' " That's their basic principle.		Devotee: The whole key is that . . . (indistinct) . . . Jesus in one of his first meetings said that, "Disregard everything that has been taught in the past and listen to me." He speaks so many things, and he does not lay out so many basic principles about the eating of flesh, having illicit sex connections and so many things. He speaks just slightly touching the subject. He doesn't really give any basic principles. So they always say: "Well, it's okay to do this, it's okay to do that, because Jesus said: 'Forget everything that was said in the past.' " That's their basic principle.

	Lady devotee (1): And he also said: "I've not come to change the law." He did not come to change the law.		'''Lady devotee (1):''' And he also said: "I've not come to change the law." He did not come to change the law.

	Devotee: That's just their standpoint . . . (indistinct) . . . I don't mean to argue.		Devotee: That's just their standpoint . . . (indistinct) . . . I don't mean to argue.

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2023-08-31T02:19:02Z

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RasaRasika: Text replacement - "Lady devotee:" to "'''Lady devotee:'''"

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	'''Lady devotee (1):''' The followers try to make everyone fear God. Their whole aim is to make everyone so much afraid. They always try to instill fear in everyone that they speak to. "You are going to burn in hell."		'''Lady devotee (1):''' The followers try to make everyone fear God. Their whole aim is to make everyone so much afraid. They always try to instill fear in everyone that they speak to. "You are going to burn in hell."

	Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is the principle of eternal hell that is used to make people surrender: fear of eternal hell.		'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' That is the principle of eternal hell that is used to make people surrender: fear of eternal hell.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.		'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.
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	'''Devotee:''' Everlasting hell.		'''Devotee:''' Everlasting hell.

	Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It means that, so far as I remember, Prabhupāda, in the Bible it says that at the time of judgment . . .		'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' It means that, so far as I remember, Prabhupāda, in the Bible it says that at the time of judgment . . .

	'''Nara-Nārāyaṇa:''' Judgment, the judgment.		'''Nara-Nārāyaṇa:''' Judgment, the judgment.

	Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a judgment . . .		'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' There's a judgment . . .

	'''Nara-Nārāyaṇa:''' You rise from the grave in the time you are judged.		'''Nara-Nārāyaṇa:''' You rise from the grave in the time you are judged.

	Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, all of the souls then rise for judgment, and accordingly they either go to heaven or to hell.		'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Yes, all of the souls then rise for judgment, and accordingly they either go to heaven or to hell.

	'''Nara-Nārāyaṇa:''' Or into an intermediate stage, where they can gradually go up to heaven. Limbo, I think.		'''Nara-Nārāyaṇa:''' Or into an intermediate stage, where they can gradually go up to heaven. Limbo, I think.
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	'''Gurudas:''' And according to one's taste the heavenly condition can be described also, because Kṛṣṇa is all-attractive.		'''Gurudas:''' And according to one's taste the heavenly condition can be described also, because Kṛṣṇa is all-attractive.

	Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda?		'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Prabhupāda?

	'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?		'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

	Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It seems that just like a mother, when she is training her young child, because the child is very young and not yet very advanced in intelligence sometimes, the mother uses the method of fear to train her child. So similarly, according to the consciousness of the people, the doctrine of love of God has to sometimes be preached with a little element of fear so that they'll accept it.		'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' It seems that just like a mother, when she is training her young child, because the child is very young and not yet very advanced in intelligence sometimes, the mother uses the method of fear to train her child. So similarly, according to the consciousness of the people, the doctrine of love of God has to sometimes be preached with a little element of fear so that they'll accept it.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' That creation of fearfulness may be sometimes, not fact; but fearfulness is there according to our actions. That everyone has got experience. Just like if you steal, then you go to jail. It is a fact. It is not a creation of fearfulness; it is a fact. If you contaminate some disease, then the typhoid or any other disease, you contaminate. So there is suffering, and that is really fearfulness; that is not a false creation. So sometimes there are false creation, but actually for our misdeeds we have to suffer. That's a fact.		'''Prabhupāda:''' That creation of fearfulness may be sometimes, not fact; but fearfulness is there according to our actions. That everyone has got experience. Just like if you steal, then you go to jail. It is a fact. It is not a creation of fearfulness; it is a fact. If you contaminate some disease, then the typhoid or any other disease, you contaminate. So there is suffering, and that is really fearfulness; that is not a false creation. So sometimes there are false creation, but actually for our misdeeds we have to suffer. That's a fact.
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	'''Lady devotee (1):''' They say all our sins have been washed away by the blood of Jesus. (break)		'''Lady devotee (1):''' They say all our sins have been washed away by the blood of Jesus. (break)

	Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I know, Prabhupāda, that in Seattle you had me lecture on a newspaper clipping that in New Jersey they had opened up one home for alcoholic priests. (laughter)		'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' I know, Prabhupāda, that in Seattle you had me lecture on a newspaper clipping that in New Jersey they had opened up one home for alcoholic priests. (laughter)

	'''Prabhupāda:''' Five thousand . . . five thousand priests, they are suffering from alcoholic . . . (indistinct)		'''Prabhupāda:''' Five thousand . . . five thousand priests, they are suffering from alcoholic . . . (indistinct)

	Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Plus here in India we see that the ''sādhus'', they are taking ''gañjā''.		'''Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:''' Plus here in India we see that the ''sādhus'', they are taking ''gañjā''.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Gañjā'', yes. Not ''sādhus''; rogues. ''Sādhu's'' description is there—''bhajate mām ananya-bhāk.'' Fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he is ''sādhu''. ''Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ'' ([[BG 9.30 (1972)\|BG 9.30]]). He is ''sādhu. Api cet sudurācāro.'' Even one is found that his habits are not to the standard, but if he has unflinching faith in Kṛṣṇa and engaged in His service, then he is ''sādhu''.		'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Gañjā'', yes. Not ''sādhus''; rogues. ''Sādhu's'' description is there—''bhajate mām ananya-bhāk.'' Fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he is ''sādhu''. ''Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ'' ([[BG 9.30 (1972)\|BG 9.30]]). He is ''sādhu. Api cet sudurācāro.'' Even one is found that his habits are not to the standard, but if he has unflinching faith in Kṛṣṇa and engaged in His service, then he is ''sādhu''.

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	'''Prabhupāda:''' That's nice.		'''Prabhupāda:''' That's nice.

	Nara-Nārāyaṇa: He is also saying that, "I have no will but to do the will of my father, who has sent me," and that, "Everything I am saying is not my words but are the words of Him . . . (indistinct) . . ."		'''Nara-Nārāyaṇa:''' He is also saying that, "I have no will but to do the will of my father, who has sent me," and that, "Everything I am saying is not my words but are the words of Him . . . (indistinct) . . ."

	'''Prabhupāda:''' Complete surrender.		'''Prabhupāda:''' Complete surrender.

	Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Yeah.		'''Nara-Nārāyaṇa:''' Yeah.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' That's nice. But they do not follow, and still they say they are Christians. They do not follow. Christ is all right. According to the time, according to the country, according to the atmosphere, he's all right, but the followers, they reject.		'''Prabhupāda:''' That's nice. But they do not follow, and still they say they are Christians. They do not follow. Christ is all right. According to the time, according to the country, according to the atmosphere, he's all right, but the followers, they reject.
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	Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It means that, so far as I remember, Prabhupāda, in the Bible it says that at the time of judgment . . .		Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It means that, so far as I remember, Prabhupāda, in the Bible it says that at the time of judgment . . .

	Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Judgment, the judgment.		'''Nara-Nārāyaṇa:''' Judgment, the judgment.

	Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a judgment . . .		Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a judgment . . .

	Nara-Nārāyaṇa: You rise from the grave in the time you are judged.		'''Nara-Nārāyaṇa:''' You rise from the grave in the time you are judged.

	Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, all of the souls then rise for judgment, and accordingly they either go to heaven or to hell.		Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, all of the souls then rise for judgment, and accordingly they either go to heaven or to hell.

	Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Or into an intermediate stage, where they can gradually go up to heaven. Limbo, I think.		'''Nara-Nārāyaṇa:''' Or into an intermediate stage, where they can gradually go up to heaven. Limbo, I think.

	'''Lady devotee (2):''' The ultimate desire of a Christian is to be with Jesus, is to go to be with him. That is their ultimate desire. Not necessarily to be with the Father, but to be with Jesus.		'''Lady devotee (2):''' The ultimate desire of a Christian is to be with Jesus, is to go to be with him. That is their ultimate desire. Not necessarily to be with the Father, but to be with Jesus.
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	'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, that is very good reason. There is no hope; better go to hell. (laughter) At least there is something. Never mind. Yes, hopelessness is not good.		'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, that is very good reason. There is no hope; better go to hell. (laughter) At least there is something. Never mind. Yes, hopelessness is not good.

	Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Actually, that is their philosophy, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I've heard people say exactly that, is that, "All the things I want to do are for the people that are going to hell, therefore I want to go to hell. Why should I go anywhere else?" By drinking, smoking, etc . . . that's what they want.		'''Nara-Nārāyaṇa:''' Actually, that is their philosophy, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I've heard people say exactly that, is that, "All the things I want to do are for the people that are going to hell, therefore I want to go to hell. Why should I go anywhere else?" By drinking, smoking, etc . . . that's what they want.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' There was a story, the priest was describing about the hell, so they did not respond. But when he said: "There is no newspaper," then, "Oh, it is horrible." (laughter) Other conditions—that it is dark, there is very moist, and so many things described. But they were miners; they know that these things are happening daily. So what is the wrong in the hell? Then he stressed, "There is no newspaper." Then they will, "Oh, it is horrible." (laughter) So according to one's taste, the hellish conditions should described.		'''Prabhupāda:''' There was a story, the priest was describing about the hell, so they did not respond. But when he said: "There is no newspaper," then, "Oh, it is horrible." (laughter) Other conditions—that it is dark, there is very moist, and so many things described. But they were miners; they know that these things are happening daily. So what is the wrong in the hell? Then he stressed, "There is no newspaper." Then they will, "Oh, it is horrible." (laughter) So according to one's taste, the hellish conditions should described.
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	'''Prabhupāda:''' But generally the Christians, they are very much confident that, "All our sinful actions, that have been absorbed by Lord Jesus Christ, so we can do anything."		'''Prabhupāda:''' But generally the Christians, they are very much confident that, "All our sinful actions, that have been absorbed by Lord Jesus Christ, so we can do anything."

	Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Yes.		'''Nara-Nārāyaṇa:''' Yes.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' Therefore they say the Christian religion is very good. "Very good" means that Lord Jesus Christ has taken contract for absorbing all their sins, and they go on committing. Is that not idea in the Christian religion?		'''Prabhupāda:''' Therefore they say the Christian religion is very good. "Very good" means that Lord Jesus Christ has taken contract for absorbing all their sins, and they go on committing. Is that not idea in the Christian religion?
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	These ''sādhus'' with long hairs and ''gañjā'' smoking, they have no idea what is the ultimate goal. And those who come from Western countries, naturally they find out these are the ''sādhus'', and they imitate. Hippies, they do like that, imitation. They do not know what is the philosophy, what is religion, what is ''sādhu''.		These ''sādhus'' with long hairs and ''gañjā'' smoking, they have no idea what is the ultimate goal. And those who come from Western countries, naturally they find out these are the ''sādhus'', and they imitate. Hippies, they do like that, imitation. They do not know what is the philosophy, what is religion, what is ''sādhu''.

	Nara-Nārāyaṇa: The American hippies actually are following these ''sādhus''. Certain persons, like Allen Ginsberg, have brought back impression that this is what the ''sādhus'' . . .		'''Nara-Nārāyaṇa:''' The American hippies actually are following these ''sādhus''. Certain persons, like Allen Ginsberg, have brought back impression that this is what the ''sādhus'' . . .

	'''Prabhupāda:''' But they do not know that they are not ''sādhus'', they are rogues.		'''Prabhupāda:''' But they do not know that they are not ''sādhus'', they are rogues.

	Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Yeah.		'''Nara-Nārāyaṇa:''' Yeah.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Sādhu'' means devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is ''sādhu''.		'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Sādhu'' means devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is ''sādhu''.
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	'''Prabhupāda:''' Not . . . so many things. So, if you do not follow the principles of Christianity, simply by stamping yourself as Christian, will that do? So why Jesus Christ will be responsible for you, simply by stamping yourself that, "I am Christian"? Is that very reasonable proposal?		'''Prabhupāda:''' Not . . . so many things. So, if you do not follow the principles of Christianity, simply by stamping yourself as Christian, will that do? So why Jesus Christ will be responsible for you, simply by stamping yourself that, "I am Christian"? Is that very reasonable proposal?

	Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Lord Jesus himself never claimed that he would be responsible. As a matter of fact, he would heal certain persons who by their ''karma'' were blind, or lame, some disease, even dead, he would bring them back to life, so many things. And then when he healed them, he invariably said after, he said: "Now go thou and sin no more, lest the worst thing befall you." And he has been saved by Jesus personally, yet Jesus is saying: "Lest the worst thing befall you." How can worst thing befall you if everything he does then is all right? So that means Jesus does not take that responsibility.		'''Nara-Nārāyaṇa:''' Lord Jesus himself never claimed that he would be responsible. As a matter of fact, he would heal certain persons who by their ''karma'' were blind, or lame, some disease, even dead, he would bring them back to life, so many things. And then when he healed them, he invariably said after, he said: "Now go thou and sin no more, lest the worst thing befall you." And he has been saved by Jesus personally, yet Jesus is saying: "Lest the worst thing befall you." How can worst thing befall you if everything he does then is all right? So that means Jesus does not take that responsibility.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Why he should be responsible? If you are not a Christian, why he should be responsible? Now here he says that, "Now you have sinned, full reaction I have washed, don't do it again."		'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Why he should be responsible? If you are not a Christian, why he should be responsible? Now here he says that, "Now you have sinned, full reaction I have washed, don't do it again."

	Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Yeah.		'''Nara-Nārāyaṇa:''' Yeah.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' But they are going to the church, confessing every week, and doing the same thing. Who is a Christian, first of all find out; then Jesus Christ will take responsibility.		'''Prabhupāda:''' But they are going to the church, confessing every week, and doing the same thing. Who is a Christian, first of all find out; then Jesus Christ will take responsibility.
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	'''Lady devotee (2):''' They lived by the Ten Commandments, or were expected to, way before Jesus appeared. The Ten Commandments are Moses' . . . it's Moses' teachings.		'''Lady devotee (2):''' They lived by the Ten Commandments, or were expected to, way before Jesus appeared. The Ten Commandments are Moses' . . . it's Moses' teachings.

	Nara-Nārāyaṇa: They were all very much meat-eaters, though. In the time of Moses all the laws of ''kashruth'', how to sanitary slaughter, which is supposedly given by God, these were all for meat-eating.		'''Nara-Nārāyaṇa:''' They were all very much meat-eaters, though. In the time of Moses all the laws of ''kashruth'', how to sanitary slaughter, which is supposedly given by God, these were all for meat-eating.

	'''Gurudas:''' That came after the ''Book of Mishnah'' (a Talmudic book, considered to be the cornerstone of Judaism). Mishnah recommends vegetarian.		'''Gurudas:''' That came after the ''Book of Mishnah'' (a Talmudic book, considered to be the cornerstone of Judaism). Mishnah recommends vegetarian.

	Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Really?		'''Nara-Nārāyaṇa:''' Really?

	'''Gurudas:''' And also Lord Jesus says that if there is unnecessary killing of animal that, "By my hand you shall be slain." In Genesis. He is stating, "Yes, one may kill, but if there is unnecessary killing, by my hand you shall be slain." In Genesis.		'''Gurudas:''' And also Lord Jesus says that if there is unnecessary killing of animal that, "By my hand you shall be slain." In Genesis. He is stating, "Yes, one may kill, but if there is unnecessary killing, by my hand you shall be slain." In Genesis.
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	Then you will be free from all sin. ''Yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo''. Even there is sin . . . sin there must be. Just like you are cooking, you are taking water from the jug, there are so many germs you are killing. The killing responsibility is there. In the higher sense: "Thou shall not kill" means you have to take the ''prasādam'' of Kṛṣṇa.		Then you will be free from all sin. ''Yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo''. Even there is sin . . . sin there must be. Just like you are cooking, you are taking water from the jug, there are so many germs you are killing. The killing responsibility is there. In the higher sense: "Thou shall not kill" means you have to take the ''prasādam'' of Kṛṣṇa.

	Nara-Nārāyaṇa: ''Jaya!''		'''Nara-Nārāyaṇa:''' ''Jaya!''

	'''Prabhupāda:''' Otherwise, even you do ordinary killing, vegetable killing, you are killing so many germs. So in higher sense, if you take this principle of Bible, "Thou shall not kill," that means you must eat ''kṛṣṇa-prasādam'', otherwise you will be killing. In whichever you do, it will be killing. So our process is perfect: take ''kṛṣṇa-prasādam''. Hmm?		'''Prabhupāda:''' Otherwise, even you do ordinary killing, vegetable killing, you are killing so many germs. So in higher sense, if you take this principle of Bible, "Thou shall not kill," that means you must eat ''kṛṣṇa-prasādam'', otherwise you will be killing. In whichever you do, it will be killing. So our process is perfect: take ''kṛṣṇa-prasādam''. Hmm?
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	'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, there is ''jīva'' also. I say that even vegetable you are killing, but that killing responsibility goes to Kṛṣṇa. We are killing for Kṛṣṇa. Suppose in the vegetable there is life, but we are preparing food for Kṛṣṇa.		'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, there is ''jīva'' also. I say that even vegetable you are killing, but that killing responsibility goes to Kṛṣṇa. We are killing for Kṛṣṇa. Suppose in the vegetable there is life, but we are preparing food for Kṛṣṇa.

	Nara-Nārāyaṇa: I think she wanted to know what happens to the soul. Supposing that a plant, we are killing the plant and offering in ''prasādam'' to Kṛṣṇa. The ''jīva'' soul who is living in the plant, what happens to him?		'''Nara-Nārāyaṇa:''' I think she wanted to know what happens to the soul. Supposing that a plant, we are killing the plant and offering in ''prasādam'' to Kṛṣṇa. The ''jīva'' soul who is living in the plant, what happens to him?

	'''Prabhupāda:''' Because he is killed for Kṛṣṇa's purpose, so he gets immediately liberation.		'''Prabhupāda:''' Because he is killed for Kṛṣṇa's purpose, so he gets immediately liberation.

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:53, 31 August 2023
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	'''Lady devotee (2):''' The ultimate desire of a Christian is to be with Jesus, is to go to be with him. That is their ultimate desire. Not necessarily to be with the Father, but to be with Jesus.		'''Lady devotee (2):''' The ultimate desire of a Christian is to be with Jesus, is to go to be with him. That is their ultimate desire. Not necessarily to be with the Father, but to be with Jesus.

	Gurudas: What do they do with him?		'''Gurudas:''' What do they do with him?

	'''Lady devotee (2):''' By leading the Christian life.		'''Lady devotee (2):''' By leading the Christian life.

	Gurudas: I mean when they go to him, what do they do?		'''Gurudas:''' I mean when they go to him, what do they do?

	'''Lady devotee (2):''' . . . (indistinct)		'''Lady devotee (2):''' . . . (indistinct)

	Gurudas: See, the idea is that you could not remember perfectly 'cause the taste is gone, the ''līlā'' is death mostly. But it isn't death; the basics are there, but they're teaching death. And so any intelligent person says: "I want to go to Jesus," but then what do I do? If it is everlasting hell, then heaven must be also everlasting, but what do we do? And if it's void, then it will not keep the people interested; therefore people are leaving religion.		'''Gurudas:''' See, the idea is that you could not remember perfectly 'cause the taste is gone, the ''līlā'' is death mostly. But it isn't death; the basics are there, but they're teaching death. And so any intelligent person says: "I want to go to Jesus," but then what do I do? If it is everlasting hell, then heaven must be also everlasting, but what do we do? And if it's void, then it will not keep the people interested; therefore people are leaving religion.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, that is very good reason. There is no hope; better go to hell. (laughter) At least there is something. Never mind. Yes, hopelessness is not good.		'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, that is very good reason. There is no hope; better go to hell. (laughter) At least there is something. Never mind. Yes, hopelessness is not good.
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	'''Prabhupāda:''' There was a story, the priest was describing about the hell, so they did not respond. But when he said: "There is no newspaper," then, "Oh, it is horrible." (laughter) Other conditions—that it is dark, there is very moist, and so many things described. But they were miners; they know that these things are happening daily. So what is the wrong in the hell? Then he stressed, "There is no newspaper." Then they will, "Oh, it is horrible." (laughter) So according to one's taste, the hellish conditions should described.		'''Prabhupāda:''' There was a story, the priest was describing about the hell, so they did not respond. But when he said: "There is no newspaper," then, "Oh, it is horrible." (laughter) Other conditions—that it is dark, there is very moist, and so many things described. But they were miners; they know that these things are happening daily. So what is the wrong in the hell? Then he stressed, "There is no newspaper." Then they will, "Oh, it is horrible." (laughter) So according to one's taste, the hellish conditions should described.

	Gurudas: And according to one's taste the heavenly condition can be described also, because Kṛṣṇa is all-attractive.		'''Gurudas:''' And according to one's taste the heavenly condition can be described also, because Kṛṣṇa is all-attractive.

	Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda?		Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda?
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	'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. So adulteration is going on, killing is going on. So many disobedience to Christian principles. So where is the possibility of becoming a Christian?		'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. So adulteration is going on, killing is going on. So many disobedience to Christian principles. So where is the possibility of becoming a Christian?

	Gurudas: "Honor thy mother and father" is not being respected.		'''Gurudas:''' "Honor thy mother and father" is not being respected.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?		'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

	Gurudas: "Honor thy mother and father" is not being respected.		'''Gurudas:''' "Honor thy mother and father" is not being respected.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' Not . . . so many things. So, if you do not follow the principles of Christianity, simply by stamping yourself as Christian, will that do? So why Jesus Christ will be responsible for you, simply by stamping yourself that, "I am Christian"? Is that very reasonable proposal?		'''Prabhupāda:''' Not . . . so many things. So, if you do not follow the principles of Christianity, simply by stamping yourself as Christian, will that do? So why Jesus Christ will be responsible for you, simply by stamping yourself that, "I am Christian"? Is that very reasonable proposal?
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	'''Devotee:''' He said: "The fish can say: 'It's not what goes in your mouth, its what comes out of your mouth that's important.' "		'''Devotee:''' He said: "The fish can say: 'It's not what goes in your mouth, its what comes out of your mouth that's important.' "

	Gurudas: Because Jesus ate fish.		'''Gurudas:''' Because Jesus ate fish.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' Jesus said?		'''Prabhupāda:''' Jesus said?

	Gurudas: He said that the . . . (break)		'''Gurudas:''' He said that the . . . (break)

	'''Prabhupāda:''' (indistinct) . . . allowed.		'''Prabhupāda:''' (indistinct) . . . allowed.

	Gurudas: But if there's no vegetables, you have to eat something.		'''Gurudas:''' But if there's no vegetables, you have to eat something.

	Śyāmasundara: I read an article once that said . . .		Śyāmasundara: I read an article once that said . . .
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	Nara-Nārāyaṇa: They were all very much meat-eaters, though. In the time of Moses all the laws of ''kashruth'', how to sanitary slaughter, which is supposedly given by God, these were all for meat-eating.		Nara-Nārāyaṇa: They were all very much meat-eaters, though. In the time of Moses all the laws of ''kashruth'', how to sanitary slaughter, which is supposedly given by God, these were all for meat-eating.

	Gurudas: That came after the ''Book of Mishnah'' (a Talmudic book, considered to be the cornerstone of Judaism). Mishnah recommends vegetarian.		'''Gurudas:''' That came after the ''Book of Mishnah'' (a Talmudic book, considered to be the cornerstone of Judaism). Mishnah recommends vegetarian.

	Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Really?		Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Really?

	Gurudas: And also Lord Jesus says that if there is unnecessary killing of animal that, "By my hand you shall be slain." In Genesis. He is stating, "Yes, one may kill, but if there is unnecessary killing, by my hand you shall be slain." In Genesis.		'''Gurudas:''' And also Lord Jesus says that if there is unnecessary killing of animal that, "By my hand you shall be slain." In Genesis. He is stating, "Yes, one may kill, but if there is unnecessary killing, by my hand you shall be slain." In Genesis.

	'''Lady devotee (1):''' Also, in Genesis is says that, "The fruits and the herbs of the land shall be your meat." It's describing how man should live, and it says: "The fruits and herbs of the land shall be your meat."		'''Lady devotee (1):''' Also, in Genesis is says that, "The fruits and the herbs of the land shall be your meat." It's describing how man should live, and it says: "The fruits and herbs of the land shall be your meat."

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:19, 31 August 2023
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	Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Or into an intermediate stage, where they can gradually go up to heaven. Limbo, I think.		Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Or into an intermediate stage, where they can gradually go up to heaven. Limbo, I think.

	Lady devotee (2): The ultimate desire of a Christian is to be with Jesus, is to go to be with him. That is their ultimate desire. Not necessarily to be with the Father, but to be with Jesus.		'''Lady devotee (2):''' The ultimate desire of a Christian is to be with Jesus, is to go to be with him. That is their ultimate desire. Not necessarily to be with the Father, but to be with Jesus.

	Gurudas: What do they do with him?		Gurudas: What do they do with him?

	Lady devotee (2): By leading the Christian life.		'''Lady devotee (2):''' By leading the Christian life.

	Gurudas: I mean when they go to him, what do they do?		Gurudas: I mean when they go to him, what do they do?

	Lady devotee (2): . . . (indistinct)		'''Lady devotee (2):''' . . . (indistinct)

	Gurudas: See, the idea is that you could not remember perfectly 'cause the taste is gone, the ''līlā'' is death mostly. But it isn't death; the basics are there, but they're teaching death. And so any intelligent person says: "I want to go to Jesus," but then what do I do? If it is everlasting hell, then heaven must be also everlasting, but what do we do? And if it's void, then it will not keep the people interested; therefore people are leaving religion.		Gurudas: See, the idea is that you could not remember perfectly 'cause the taste is gone, the ''līlā'' is death mostly. But it isn't death; the basics are there, but they're teaching death. And so any intelligent person says: "I want to go to Jesus," but then what do I do? If it is everlasting hell, then heaven must be also everlasting, but what do we do? And if it's void, then it will not keep the people interested; therefore people are leaving religion.
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	So any circumstances, the direct killing is not approved by any ''śāstra'', any religion. ''Jīva hiṁsā.'' Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says, ''niṣiddhācāra jīva-hiṁsā'' ([[CC Madhya 19.159\|CC Madhya 19.159]]). So ''jiva hiṁsā'', violence upon other animals, that is against Vaiṣṇava principle. You cannot be violent. You cannot kill.		So any circumstances, the direct killing is not approved by any ''śāstra'', any religion. ''Jīva hiṁsā.'' Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says, ''niṣiddhācāra jīva-hiṁsā'' ([[CC Madhya 19.159\|CC Madhya 19.159]]). So ''jiva hiṁsā'', violence upon other animals, that is against Vaiṣṇava principle. You cannot be violent. You cannot kill.

	Lady devotee (2): "Thou shalt not kill" is one of the Ten Commandments, which is much older than Jesus' teachings. Moses delivered the Ten Commandments to the people of Israel thousands of years before Jesus appeared. So they knew all of this before Jesus.		'''Lady devotee (2):''' "Thou shalt not kill" is one of the Ten Commandments, which is much older than Jesus' teachings. Moses delivered the Ten Commandments to the people of Israel thousands of years before Jesus appeared. So they knew all of this before Jesus.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?		'''Prabhupāda:''' Huh?

	Lady devotee (2): They lived by the Ten Commandments, or were expected to, way before Jesus appeared. The Ten Commandments are Moses' . . . it's Moses' teachings.		'''Lady devotee (2):''' They lived by the Ten Commandments, or were expected to, way before Jesus appeared. The Ten Commandments are Moses' . . . it's Moses' teachings.

	Nara-Nārāyaṇa: They were all very much meat-eaters, though. In the time of Moses all the laws of ''kashruth'', how to sanitary slaughter, which is supposedly given by God, these were all for meat-eating.		Nara-Nārāyaṇa: They were all very much meat-eaters, though. In the time of Moses all the laws of ''kashruth'', how to sanitary slaughter, which is supposedly given by God, these were all for meat-eating.

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:18, 31 August 2023
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	Śyāmasundara: The knowledge that we have of Jesus was not direct, but it was written down up to a hundred or two hundred years later in another language, called Aramaic, and scholars recently have discovered that wherever Jesus refers to fish, distributing fish, that that word actually refers to a type of sea plant that grows in the Sea of Galilee, which they make a type of bread out of. And it's not really fish but a type of vegetarian bread. This is what I read in an article. So, we don't have . . . (laughter)		Śyāmasundara: The knowledge that we have of Jesus was not direct, but it was written down up to a hundred or two hundred years later in another language, called Aramaic, and scholars recently have discovered that wherever Jesus refers to fish, distributing fish, that that word actually refers to a type of sea plant that grows in the Sea of Galilee, which they make a type of bread out of. And it's not really fish but a type of vegetarian bread. This is what I read in an article. So, we don't have . . . (laughter)

	Lady devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there was a fish on Lakṣmī's hand yesterday. The Deities in the temple, where Lakṣmī had her hand up like this, there was a fish here across her hand. What is this?		'''Lady devotee:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda, there was a fish on Lakṣmī's hand yesterday. The Deities in the temple, where Lakṣmī had her hand up like this, there was a fish here across her hand. What is this?

	'''Prabhupāda:''' That is a mark. Mark.		'''Prabhupāda:''' That is a mark. Mark.

	Lady devotee: It's an auspicious sign.		'''Lady devotee:''' It's an auspicious sign.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' Not actual fish.		'''Prabhupāda:''' Not actual fish.

	Lady devotee: Yes.		'''Lady devotee:''' Yes.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' Not that Lakṣmījī eats fish. (laughter) There are many other marks also.		'''Prabhupāda:''' Not that Lakṣmījī eats fish. (laughter) There are many other marks also.

	Lady devotee: So it's an auspicious mark. Would it be better if we gave up the eating of vegetables, then?		'''Lady devotee:''' So it's an auspicious mark. Would it be better if we gave up the eating of vegetables, then?

	'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?		'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?

	Lady devotee: Would it be better if we gave up eating vegetables?		'''Lady devotee:''' Would it be better if we gave up eating vegetables?

	'''Prabhupāda:''' You cannot eat anything except ''kṛṣṇa-prasādam''. Even if we eat vegetables, that is also sin. ''Bhagavad-gītā'' clearly says, ''bhuñjate te agham pāpā'', ''ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt'' ([[BG 3.13 (1972)\|BG 3.13]]). If you prepare very nice pure foodstuff for eating yourself, then still you are eating sins. You have to prepare anything very nicely, offer it to Kṛṣṇa, then you take.		'''Prabhupāda:''' You cannot eat anything except ''kṛṣṇa-prasādam''. Even if we eat vegetables, that is also sin. ''Bhagavad-gītā'' clearly says, ''bhuñjate te agham pāpā'', ''ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt'' ([[BG 3.13 (1972)\|BG 3.13]]). If you prepare very nice pure foodstuff for eating yourself, then still you are eating sins. You have to prepare anything very nicely, offer it to Kṛṣṇa, then you take.
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	'''Prabhupāda:''' Because he is killed for Kṛṣṇa's purpose, so he gets immediately liberation.		'''Prabhupāda:''' Because he is killed for Kṛṣṇa's purpose, so he gets immediately liberation.

	Lady devotee: This is a very sinful life they're living, unless we offer everything to Kṛṣṇa.		'''Lady devotee:''' This is a very sinful life they're living, unless we offer everything to Kṛṣṇa.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' Not anything. Kṛṣṇa, whatever says, you . . . Kṛṣṇa says, ''patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam'' ([[BG 9.26 (1972)\|BG 9.26]]). You can offer these things which is asked by Kṛṣṇa.		'''Prabhupāda:''' Not anything. Kṛṣṇa, whatever says, you . . . Kṛṣṇa says, ''patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam'' ([[BG 9.26 (1972)\|BG 9.26]]). You can offer these things which is asked by Kṛṣṇa.