730804 - Conversation - London - Revision history

RasaRasika at 06:24, 10 December 2023

2023-12-10T06:24:41Z

RasaRasika at 02:57, 9 September 2023

2023-09-09T02:57:20Z

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RasaRasika at 02:54, 9 September 2023

2023-09-09T02:54:38Z

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RasaRasika: Text replacement - "Mr. Papworth:" to "'''Mr. Papworth:'''"

2023-09-08T01:56:54Z

Text replacement - "Mr. Papworth:" to "'''Mr. Papworth:'''"

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RasaRasika: Text replacement - "Dr. Schumacher:" to "'''Dr. Schumacher:'''"

2023-09-08T01:56:24Z

Text replacement - "Dr. Schumacher:" to "'''Dr. Schumacher:'''"

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RasaRasika: Text replacement - "Revatīnandana:" to "'''Revatīnandana:'''"

2023-09-08T01:28:00Z

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RasaRasika: Text replacement - "Pradyumna:" to "'''Pradyumna:'''"

2023-09-08T01:27:23Z

Text replacement - "Pradyumna:" to "'''Pradyumna:'''"

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:27, 8 September 2023
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	That ''paṇḍita'' I have already explained, Cāṇakya Paṇḍita also said: ''samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu'' ([[BG 18.54 (1972)\|BG 18.54]]) He is ''paṇḍita'' he is learned. So what is that.		That ''paṇḍita'' I have already explained, Cāṇakya Paṇḍita also said: ''samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu'' ([[BG 18.54 (1972)\|BG 18.54]]) He is ''paṇḍita'' he is learned. So what is that.

	Pradyumna:		'''Pradyumna:'''

	:''vidyā-vinaya-sampanne''		:''vidyā-vinaya-sampanne''
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	'''Prabhupāda:''' Hm? What is the purport, is it there?		'''Prabhupāda:''' Hm? What is the purport, is it there?

	Pradyumna: "A Kṛṣṇa conscious person does not make any distinction between species or castes. The ''brāhmaṇa'' and the outcaste may be different from the social point of view, or a dog, or a cow, or an elephant may be different from the point of view of species, but these differences of body are meaningless from the viewpoint of a learned transcendentalist. This is due to their relationship to the Supreme, for the Supreme Lord, by His plenary portion as Paramātmā, is present in everyone's heart. Such an understanding of the Supreme is real knowledge."		'''Pradyumna:''' "A Kṛṣṇa conscious person does not make any distinction between species or castes. The ''brāhmaṇa'' and the outcaste may be different from the social point of view, or a dog, or a cow, or an elephant may be different from the point of view of species, but these differences of body are meaningless from the viewpoint of a learned transcendentalist. This is due to their relationship to the Supreme, for the Supreme Lord, by His plenary portion as Paramātmā, is present in everyone's heart. Such an understanding of the Supreme is real knowledge."

	"As far as the bodies are concerned in different castes or different species of life, the Lord is equally kind to everyone because He treats every living being as a friend yet maintains Himself as Paramātmā regardless of the circumstances of the living entities. The Lord as Paramātmā is present both in the outcaste and in the ''brāhmaṇa'', although the body of a ''brāhmaṇa'' and that of an outcaste are not the same. The bodies are material productions of different modes of material nature, but the soul and the Supersoul within the body are of the same spiritual quality. The similarity in the quality of the soul and the Supersoul, however, does not make them equal in quantity, for the individual soul is present only in that particular body, whereas the Paramātmā is present in each and every body."		"As far as the bodies are concerned in different castes or different species of life, the Lord is equally kind to everyone because He treats every living being as a friend yet maintains Himself as Paramātmā regardless of the circumstances of the living entities. The Lord as Paramātmā is present both in the outcaste and in the ''brāhmaṇa'', although the body of a ''brāhmaṇa'' and that of an outcaste are not the same. The bodies are material productions of different modes of material nature, but the soul and the Supersoul within the body are of the same spiritual quality. The similarity in the quality of the soul and the Supersoul, however, does not make them equal in quantity, for the individual soul is present only in that particular body, whereas the Paramātmā is present in each and every body."
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	We are limitedly independent, so as in the ''Bhagavad-gītā'' Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna that you surrender unto me I shall solve your all problems, I shall give you protection. Now he does not force him, although he is God, he can force him. "You must, I must force you," no no he doesn't do so. In another place Kṛṣṇa is asking Arjuna, ''yathecchasi tathā kuru'' . . . eh? In the eighteenth chapter.		We are limitedly independent, so as in the ''Bhagavad-gītā'' Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna that you surrender unto me I shall solve your all problems, I shall give you protection. Now he does not force him, although he is God, he can force him. "You must, I must force you," no no he doesn't do so. In another place Kṛṣṇa is asking Arjuna, ''yathecchasi tathā kuru'' . . . eh? In the eighteenth chapter.

	Pradyumna: Oh.		'''Pradyumna:''' Oh.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Yathecchasi tathā kuru'', he after instructing ''Bhagavad-gītā'' he said that I have spoken to you everything, now whatever you like you can do. That means he is not touching his independence, "Whatever you like". So even God does not touch individual person's independence. So independence is always there.		'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Yathecchasi tathā kuru'', he after instructing ''Bhagavad-gītā'' he said that I have spoken to you everything, now whatever you like you can do. That means he is not touching his independence, "Whatever you like". So even God does not touch individual person's independence. So independence is always there.

	Pradyumna:		'''Pradyumna:'''

	:''iti te jñānam ākhyātaṁ''		:''iti te jñānam ākhyātaṁ''
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	Papworth: Hallelujah.		Papworth: Hallelujah.

	Pradyumna: It's like ''Jaya''.		'''Pradyumna:''' It's like ''Jaya''.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?		'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?

	Pradyumna: It's like ''Jaya''. Kṛṣṇa.		'''Pradyumna:''' It's like ''Jaya''. Kṛṣṇa.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, that is also good but they must come to God, at least. Without coming to God simply theorisation, has no solution. People must come to God.		'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, that is also good but they must come to God, at least. Without coming to God simply theorisation, has no solution. People must come to God.
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	(aside) Hm. You have got that?		(aside) Hm. You have got that?

	Pradyumna: Yes.		'''Pradyumna:''' Yes.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' Read it.		'''Prabhupāda:''' Read it.

	Pradyumna:		'''Pradyumna:'''

	:''parjanyaḥ śata-varṣāṇi''		:''parjanyaḥ śata-varṣāṇi''
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	'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah!		'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah!

	Pradyumna:		'''Pradyumna:'''

	:''tadā niranne hy anyonyaṁ''		:''tadā niranne hy anyonyaṁ''
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	'''Prabhupāda:''' Hm. Let me have it.		'''Prabhupāda:''' Hm. Let me have it.

	Pradyumna: . . . ''parjanyaḥ''.		'''Pradyumna:''' . . . ''parjanyaḥ''.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah, that is another thing.		'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah, that is another thing.
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	'''Guest:''' I don't think you have understood . . .		'''Guest:''' I don't think you have understood . . .

	Pradyumna: It is ridiculous to try to ride a bicycle to stop you know a major devastation. Ridiculous . . .		'''Pradyumna:''' It is ridiculous to try to ride a bicycle to stop you know a major devastation. Ridiculous . . .

	Papworth: . . . (indistinct)		Papworth: . . . (indistinct)

	Pradyumna: The logic is ridiculous. To try to ride a bicycle.		'''Pradyumna:''' The logic is ridiculous. To try to ride a bicycle.

	'''Haṁsadūta:''' Kṛṣṇa consciousness is that everything is created by God.		'''Haṁsadūta:''' Kṛṣṇa consciousness is that everything is created by God.

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "Haṁsadūta:" to "'''Haṁsadūta:'''"

2023-09-08T01:10:50Z

Text replacement - "Haṁsadūta:" to "'''Haṁsadūta:'''"

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RasaRasika: Text replacement - "Guest:" to "'''Guest:'''"

2023-09-08T00:47:26Z

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RasaRasika: Text replacement - "Devotee:" to "'''Devotee:'''"

2023-09-08T00:42:52Z

Text replacement - "Devotee:" to "'''Devotee:'''"

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:42, 8 September 2023
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	'''Prabhupāda:''' Locate that in ''Bhagavat'': ''anāvṛṣṭyā, anāvṛṣṭyā durbhikṣa-kara-pīḍitāḥ'' ([[SB 12.2.9\|SB 12.2.9]]) That is already predicted that these things will happen.		'''Prabhupāda:''' Locate that in ''Bhagavat'': ''anāvṛṣṭyā, anāvṛṣṭyā durbhikṣa-kara-pīḍitāḥ'' ([[SB 12.2.9\|SB 12.2.9]]) That is already predicted that these things will happen.

	Devotee: Excuse me.		'''Devotee:''' Excuse me.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Now it is coming there will be cloud in the sky, there will be no rain simply lightning these are all predicted and gradually at the end of this age there will be no food grains.		'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Now it is coming there will be cloud in the sky, there will be no rain simply lightning these are all predicted and gradually at the end of this age there will be no food grains.
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	'''Prabhupāda:''' All right take him. Thank you very much. So you are all thoughtful men just consider and try to convince people about the importance of this movement that is our request. Yes.		'''Prabhupāda:''' All right take him. Thank you very much. So you are all thoughtful men just consider and try to convince people about the importance of this movement that is our request. Yes.

	Devotee: ''Nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya'' . . . (cut) (end)		'''Devotee:''' ''Nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya'' . . . (cut) (end)

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:24, 10 December 2023
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	'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Thank you very much for your coming. I have read some of your ideas. So from your writing it appears you are nice, thoughtful man. Muni. The Sanskrit word is ''muni''. Just like Nārada Muni. They are very thoughtful. So I have read one description of "Crisis of Increasing Motorcars" in this paper. Actually, we are creating crisis. This advancement of modern civilization is simply creating crisis.		'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Thank you very much for your coming. I have read some of your ideas. So from your writing it appears you are nice, thoughtful man. Muni. The Sanskrit word is ''muni''. Just like Nārada Muni. They are very thoughtful. So I have read one description of "Crisis of Increasing Motorcars" in this paper. Actually, we are creating crisis. This advancement of modern civilization is simply creating crisis.

	One Vaiṣṇava poet, he has sung, ''sat-saṅga chāḍi kainu asatye vilāsa'' (''Gaurā Pahu''). ''Sat-saṅga'' means spiritual association. So we have given up spiritual association, and ''asatye vilāsa'', we have taken to material enjoyment. So ''sat-saṅga chāḍi kainu'' . . . there are two things: material and spiritual. So ''sat-saṅga chāḍi kainu asatye'' . . . "I have given up spiritual association, and I have taken to material association.		One Vaiṣṇava poet, he has sung, ''sat-saṅga chāḍi kainu asatye vilāsa'' (Gaurā Pahu). ''Sat-saṅga'' means spiritual association. So we have given up spiritual association, and ''asatye vilāsa'', we have taken to material enjoyment. So ''sat-saṅga chāḍi kainu'' . . . there are two things: material and spiritual. So ''sat-saṅga chāḍi kainu asatye'' . . . "I have given up spiritual association, and I have taken to material association.

	Therefore I have become entangled." ''Sei karaṇe lāgilā mora'' ''karma-bandha-phāṅsā.'' We are becoming more and more entangled in material activities. We are trying to solve one problem, and creating another big problem. Just like I was reading the "Motorcar Crisis." We thought that with a horseless carriage it will be very convenient to travel. But against that convenience, so-called convenience, we have created so many inconveniences. It is very nicely described in that paper I was reading.		Therefore I have become entangled." ''Sei karaṇe lāgilā mora'' ''karma-bandha-phāṅsā.'' We are becoming more and more entangled in material activities. We are trying to solve one problem, and creating another big problem. Just like I was reading the "Motorcar Crisis." We thought that with a horseless carriage it will be very convenient to travel. But against that convenience, so-called convenience, we have created so many inconveniences. It is very nicely described in that paper I was reading.
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	'''Mr. Papworth:''' Yes.		'''Mr. Papworth:''' Yes.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. ''Nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yuktaṁ vairāgyam ucyate'' (''Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu'' 1.2.255). So everything should be done—that is called ''karma-yoga''—in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna is doing. He did not change his position as a fighter, as a warrior. But he acted according to the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore he is recognized, ''bhakto 'si priyo 'si'' ([[BG 4.3 (1972)\|BG 4.3]]): "You are My dear friend. You are My devotee." This is the process. So we have to purify. We cannot stop. That is not possible. The progress which is going on, let it go. But let it go . . . we do not want that, but it has come so far, it is not possible to stop it. But here is the remedy. You can purify it.		'''Prabhupāda:''' That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. ''Nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yuktaṁ vairāgyam ucyate'' (Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.255). So everything should be done—that is called ''karma-yoga''—in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna is doing. He did not change his position as a fighter, as a warrior. But he acted according to the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore he is recognized, ''bhakto 'si priyo 'si'' ([[BG 4.3 (1972)\|BG 4.3]]): "You are My dear friend. You are My devotee." This is the process. So we have to purify. We cannot stop. That is not possible. The progress which is going on, let it go. But let it go . . . we do not want that, but it has come so far, it is not possible to stop it. But here is the remedy. You can purify it.

	'''Mr. Papworth:''' What means do you suggest for purifying it?		'''Mr. Papworth:''' What means do you suggest for purifying it?
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	'''Dr. Schumacher:''' When these are not any more the central problems. I can't agree any kind of discipline . . . (indistinct)		'''Dr. Schumacher:''' When these are not any more the central problems. I can't agree any kind of discipline . . . (indistinct)

	'''Prabhupāda:''' This is not central problem, that is proof of my students. They are coming from . . . ~~You~~ explain that Christian will be out but why they should be out? They were all Christians, how they are coming?		'''Prabhupāda:''' This is not central problem, that is proof of my students. They are coming from . . . you explain that Christian will be out but why they should be out? They were all Christians, how they are coming?

	'''Dr. Schumacher:''' Well Christianity is no longer acceptable teaching.		'''Dr. Schumacher:''' Well Christianity is no longer acceptable teaching.
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	'''Revatīnandana:''' Yes therefore the situation is desperate situation. The world is in a desperate condition.		'''Revatīnandana:''' Yes therefore the situation is desperate situation. The world is in a desperate condition.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' Our philosophy is that you remain your post, you simply hear about Kṛṣṇa that is our position. We don't say that you change your position, no. ''Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu'' . . . you kindly lend your aural reception, that much we want. We don't say that you change your position. Instead of becoming industrial you become something else, no. That we don't. But if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious the pollution will be over, that's all . . . ''ceto darpaṇa mārjanam''.		'''Prabhupāda:''' Our philosophy is that you remain your post, you simply hear about Kṛṣṇa that is our position. We don't say that you change your position, no. ''Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu'' . . . you kindly lend your aural reception, that much we want. We don't say that you change your position. Instead of becoming industrial you become something else, no. That we don't. But if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious the pollution will be over, that's all . . . ''ceto darpaṇa mārjanam''.

	'''Revatīnandana:''' You see, if you . . . if at this stage you say: "Oh, I won't use the aeroplane I don't hold with the television sets, I don't approve of . . . "		'''Revatīnandana:''' You see, if you . . . if at this stage you say: "Oh, I won't use the aeroplane I don't hold with the television sets, I don't approve of . . . "