740315 - Conversation - Vrndavana - Revision history

RasaRasika at 04:46, 26 November 2023

2023-11-26T04:46:17Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:46, 26 November 2023
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	'''Śyāmasundara:''' The whole thing is that we're sort of at a crisis in India, in terms of our presence here. Our prestige has hit an all-time low simply because of our conduct, that's all. Not because of our teaching, or because we are white, or anything like that. It's just because of our conduct. It's been so bad. Abominable. We don't in any way compare with the Indian ''sannyāsīs'' in our conduct. So how can we expect to honor Śrīla Prabhupāda if we conduct ourselves like this. So it's part of our responsibilities as the leaders not to avoid it, not to avoid the other devotees, but to train them now, begin training them.		'''Śyāmasundara:''' The whole thing is that we're sort of at a crisis in India, in terms of our presence here. Our prestige has hit an all-time low simply because of our conduct, that's all. Not because of our teaching, or because we are white, or anything like that. It's just because of our conduct. It's been so bad. Abominable. We don't in any way compare with the Indian ''sannyāsīs'' in our conduct. So how can we expect to honor Śrīla Prabhupāda if we conduct ourselves like this. So it's part of our responsibilities as the leaders not to avoid it, not to avoid the other devotees, but to train them now, begin training them.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, this is Vaiṣṇava training. Now we should have our routine work. Just like here, punctually, as soon as I see seven, I ask: "When he is coming, . . . (indistinct) . . .?" As soon as it is five, immediately I ask. So there may be more persons, but the routine work must be followed. If somebody is sleeping, the ''kīrtana'' is going on, or morning prayer is going on, so he maybe said that: "If we sleep like that, then you cannot do it."		'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, this is Vaiṣṇava training. Now we should have our routine work. Just like here, punctually, as soon as I see seven, I ask: "When he is coming . . . (indistinct) . . .?" As soon as it is five, immediately I ask. So there may be more persons, but the routine work must be followed. If somebody is sleeping, the ''kīrtana'' is going on, or morning prayer is going on, so he maybe said that: "If we sleep like that, then you cannot do it."

	'''Devotee:''' I said that to that boy previously. I told him not to do . . .		'''Devotee:''' I said that to that boy previously. I told him not to do . . .

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "Śyāmasundara:" to "'''Śyāmasundara:'''"

2023-09-13T03:43:13Z

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RasaRasika: Text replacement - "Pañcadraviḍa:" to "'''Pañcadraviḍa:'''"

2023-09-13T03:34:44Z

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RasaRasika: Text replacement - "Hayagrīva:" to "'''Hayagrīva:'''"

2023-09-13T03:20:46Z

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	'''Prabhupāda:''' No, that if he stays in the bed, then ask to leave. Yes. Not that fighting.		'''Prabhupāda:''' No, that if he stays in the bed, then ask to leave. Yes. Not that fighting.

	Hayagrīva: Śrīla Prabhupāda?		'''Hayagrīva:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda?

	'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.		'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.

	Hayagrīva: I just want to say one thing, that this . . . then I'll leave, because this is a meeting of the management here. But I saw the boy after he was beaten, and as far as I'm concerned, that was very . . .		'''Hayagrīva:''' I just want to say one thing, that this . . . then I'll leave, because this is a meeting of the management here. But I saw the boy after he was beaten, and as far as I'm concerned, that was very . . .

	'''Prabhupāda:''' (aside) That I have . . . (indistinct) . . . later.		'''Prabhupāda:''' (aside) That I have . . . (indistinct) . . . later.

	Hayagrīva: That was very cruel. It looked very cruel to me. It looked like he was beaten with boards. It looked criminal. So, I don't think, uh . . . if it happened to me I would sue, if that happened to me. The boy's eye could be put out. That's not good, under any circumstance.		'''Hayagrīva:''' That was very cruel. It looked very cruel to me. It looked like he was beaten with boards. It looked criminal. So, I don't think, uh . . . if it happened to me I would sue, if that happened to me. The boy's eye could be put out. That's not good, under any circumstance.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' That we are discussing. That was not a very . . . (indistinct)		'''Prabhupāda:''' That we are discussing. That was not a very . . . (indistinct)

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "Acyutānanda:" to "'''Acyutānanda:'''"

2023-09-13T03:03:15Z

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RasaRasika: Text replacement - "Prabhupāda:" to "'''Prabhupāda:'''"

2023-09-13T02:44:22Z

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RasaRasika: Text replacement - "Devotee:" to "'''Devotee:'''"

2023-09-13T02:35:13Z

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← Older revision		Revision as of 02:35, 13 September 2023
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	Prabhupāda: Yes, this is Vaiṣṇava training. Now we should have our routine work. Just like here, punctually, as soon as I see seven, I ask: "When he is coming, . . . (indistinct) . . .?" As soon as it is five, immediately I ask. So there may be more persons, but the routine work must be followed. If somebody is sleeping, the ''kīrtana'' is going on, or morning prayer is going on, so he maybe said that: "If we sleep like that, then you cannot do it."		Prabhupāda: Yes, this is Vaiṣṇava training. Now we should have our routine work. Just like here, punctually, as soon as I see seven, I ask: "When he is coming, . . . (indistinct) . . .?" As soon as it is five, immediately I ask. So there may be more persons, but the routine work must be followed. If somebody is sleeping, the ''kīrtana'' is going on, or morning prayer is going on, so he maybe said that: "If we sleep like that, then you cannot do it."

	Devotee: I said that to that boy previously. I told him not to do . . .		'''Devotee:''' I said that to that boy previously. I told him not to do . . .

	Prabhupāda: That's all right, but why did you . . . off something, pour water on his body?		Prabhupāda: That's all right, but why did you . . . off something, pour water on his body?

	Devotee: Simply to wake him.		'''Devotee:''' Simply to wake him.

	Prabhupāda: You should not do anything which may provoke some . . . (indistinct)		Prabhupāda: You should not do anything which may provoke some . . . (indistinct)

	Devotee: Aggressively.		'''Devotee:''' Aggressively.

	Prabhupāda: So, best thing was to say that he is not in good shape; say to me that he is incorrigible. And I could have asked him . . . (indistinct) . . . he would have finished. He may give one day, once, twice - if he does not follow, then you shall ask him just to please leave this place. That's all. That should be offered. We should also . . . the police said that, when I told him that our regulation is that everyone should get up at four, so he immediately, "I don't see anyone who is rising at four . . . (indistinct) . . . nobody." What can I answer?		Prabhupāda: So, best thing was to say that he is not in good shape; say to me that he is incorrigible. And I could have asked him . . . (indistinct) . . . he would have finished. He may give one day, once, twice - if he does not follow, then you shall ask him just to please leave this place. That's all. That should be offered. We should also . . . the police said that, when I told him that our regulation is that everyone should get up at four, so he immediately, "I don't see anyone who is rising at four . . . (indistinct) . . . nobody." What can I answer?

	Devotee: How can he say that, Śrīla Prabhupāda? How can he see if anyone is rising at four or not?		'''Devotee:''' How can he say that, Śrīla Prabhupāda? How can he see if anyone is rising at four or not?

	Prabhupāda: Now here is the . . . (indistinct) . . . he says that nobody rises early in the morning. Just like yourself.		Prabhupāda: Now here is the . . . (indistinct) . . . he says that nobody rises early in the morning. Just like yourself.
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	Śyāmasundara: But he is rising.		Śyāmasundara: But he is rising.

	Devotee: I am, I am rising.		'''Devotee:''' I am, I am rising.

	Prabhupāda: He is rising, but others!		Prabhupāda: He is rising, but others!
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	Prabhupāda: Then one thing is, that this ultimate, we are canvassing, we are preaching to bring men. To get them out is not our business. That is not our business that, but if he is incorrigible, he is not . . . then he must leave. That is . . . if you are making so much preaching, why, to bring men, not to ask them to go. If for some paltry reason you ask, that is not . . .		Prabhupāda: Then one thing is, that this ultimate, we are canvassing, we are preaching to bring men. To get them out is not our business. That is not our business that, but if he is incorrigible, he is not . . . then he must leave. That is . . . if you are making so much preaching, why, to bring men, not to ask them to go. If for some paltry reason you ask, that is not . . .

	Devotee: This was not a paltry reason.		'''Devotee:''' This was not a paltry reason.

	Prabhupāda: When he is incorrigible. First of all you have to try to correct him and . . . that is preaching. Our preaching means that people are useless, we have to train them in such a way they may take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our management. But if he is completely incorrigible, then he will be asked to leave. Otherwise it is not our business that as soon as we see something is being wrong . . . he must be trained, by our example, by our teaching, by our work. ''Śānta yaṁ cinvanti kutiḥ''. By word, by example, he should be corrected. If I cannot correct him by my words and example, that is also my . . . (indistinct) . . . because they are . . . they are . . . you cannot expect that everyone has come here, ''sādhu''. It is not that. We collect from ordinary men, but we have to make him ''sādhu''. That is preaching. That is preaching. That you have to do tactfully. Not that because one is incorrigible . . . after trying all our ways, if he is still incorrigible, then you can ask. Not that for paltry reason he cannot be . . . "Get out." That "get out," if you make, then everything has to be "get out." That is not the policy. Policy is first of all to correct him. That is preaching. As far as possible by example, by teaching, by everything.		Prabhupāda: When he is incorrigible. First of all you have to try to correct him and . . . that is preaching. Our preaching means that people are useless, we have to train them in such a way they may take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our management. But if he is completely incorrigible, then he will be asked to leave. Otherwise it is not our business that as soon as we see something is being wrong . . . he must be trained, by our example, by our teaching, by our work. ''Śānta yaṁ cinvanti kutiḥ''. By word, by example, he should be corrected. If I cannot correct him by my words and example, that is also my . . . (indistinct) . . . because they are . . . they are . . . you cannot expect that everyone has come here, ''sādhu''. It is not that. We collect from ordinary men, but we have to make him ''sādhu''. That is preaching. That is preaching. That you have to do tactfully. Not that because one is incorrigible . . . after trying all our ways, if he is still incorrigible, then you can ask. Not that for paltry reason he cannot be . . . "Get out." That "get out," if you make, then everything has to be "get out." That is not the policy. Policy is first of all to correct him. That is preaching. As far as possible by example, by teaching, by everything.
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	Acyutānanda: That overall I'm a Māyāvādī.		Acyutānanda: That overall I'm a Māyāvādī.

	Devotee: I find an overall bad atmosphere in India. Resentment against many of the devotees. Party politics and different things like that are going on. It's not limited, it's going on all over India.		'''Devotee:''' I find an overall bad atmosphere in India. Resentment against many of the devotees. Party politics and different things like that are going on. It's not limited, it's going on all over India.

	Acyutānanda: That's so . . .		Acyutānanda: That's so . . .

	Devotee: Very heavy.		'''Devotee:''' Very heavy.

	Śyāmasundara: Just like with . . . just like with Tamāla Kṛṣṇa. He has the respect of everyone now, because he is doing such a good job of managing, and he's just, he's doing, he's performing nicely his devotional work, and he's getting some results. That's respect. Then you'll get respect. Bali-mardana Mahārāja, he's built up ISKCON Press 'till it's just like (snaps fingers) that, and everyone touches his feet when they see him. You don't find anyone disrespecting him, because he's performing his duties. You automatically get respect if you perform something nicely. Not just say: "Oh, the atmosphere's bad . . ."		Śyāmasundara: Just like with . . . just like with Tamāla Kṛṣṇa. He has the respect of everyone now, because he is doing such a good job of managing, and he's just, he's doing, he's performing nicely his devotional work, and he's getting some results. That's respect. Then you'll get respect. Bali-mardana Mahārāja, he's built up ISKCON Press 'till it's just like (snaps fingers) that, and everyone touches his feet when they see him. You don't find anyone disrespecting him, because he's performing his duties. You automatically get respect if you perform something nicely. Not just say: "Oh, the atmosphere's bad . . ."
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	Prabhupāda: Whatever is done is done. Now, you try to correct others by behaving yourself. Otherwise, there is no need of keeping so many men. We have attempted in Vṛndāvana. A few men may remain here. That's all. Otherwise, it will be not very nice to attract. When people are attracted by seeing your behavior, they are seeing that, "Oh, Europeans and Americans, they have got such nice Vaiṣṇavas." They are attracted on that point. But if we are not to the standard point, they will immediately accuse, "Oh, they are . . ." So that should be corrected. The same principle, ''āpani ācari prabhu jīvere'': we should behave ourselves nicely, then teach others. Then it will be effective. Another—this is general principle—now we have discussed, now we try to follow. Another thing, that Keśi-ghāṭa affair. Shall we make further progress? I acquired that property all this be dropped? What is your opinion? From the circumstances as that is now . . . because any temple, it must be nicely, very nicely managed; otherwise you cannot attract. Our Los Angeles temple we want to attract people. So it is so nicely managed, very nicely managed. You have seen. So unless . . . and that means there must be sufficient bank balance, such a big temple.		Prabhupāda: Whatever is done is done. Now, you try to correct others by behaving yourself. Otherwise, there is no need of keeping so many men. We have attempted in Vṛndāvana. A few men may remain here. That's all. Otherwise, it will be not very nice to attract. When people are attracted by seeing your behavior, they are seeing that, "Oh, Europeans and Americans, they have got such nice Vaiṣṇavas." They are attracted on that point. But if we are not to the standard point, they will immediately accuse, "Oh, they are . . ." So that should be corrected. The same principle, ''āpani ācari prabhu jīvere'': we should behave ourselves nicely, then teach others. Then it will be effective. Another—this is general principle—now we have discussed, now we try to follow. Another thing, that Keśi-ghāṭa affair. Shall we make further progress? I acquired that property all this be dropped? What is your opinion? From the circumstances as that is now . . . because any temple, it must be nicely, very nicely managed; otherwise you cannot attract. Our Los Angeles temple we want to attract people. So it is so nicely managed, very nicely managed. You have seen. So unless . . . and that means there must be sufficient bank balance, such a big temple.

	Devotee: I don't . . .		'''Devotee:''' I don't . . .

	Prabhupāda: Huh?		Prabhupāda: Huh?

	Devotee: I don't think that there's enough people to clean up and manage and keep clean Keśi-ghāṭa. Maybe in the future sometime, but . . .		'''Devotee:''' I don't think that there's enough people to clean up and manage and keep clean Keśi-ghāṭa. Maybe in the future sometime, but . . .

	Prabhupāda: At the present it is not.		Prabhupāda: At the present it is not.

	Devotee: It's so big. It's so big.		'''Devotee:''' It's so big. It's so big.

	'''Devotee (2):''' Most of the quality of people that are there are . . . less people of a higher quality in a smaller place, it would do much more good. Like I was in the Philippines by myself, all alone, but still the work would go on much quicker because I could avoid all of this. I could avoid all of this what with we're having right now. I could avoid it completely because I was . . . there was nobody there to cause it—all new people.		'''Devotee (2):''' Most of the quality of people that are there are . . . less people of a higher quality in a smaller place, it would do much more good. Like I was in the Philippines by myself, all alone, but still the work would go on much quicker because I could avoid all of this. I could avoid all of this what with we're having right now. I could avoid it completely because I was . . . there was nobody there to cause it—all new people.
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	Śyāmasundara: Yeah, I know the difficulty they're having, ''sannyāsīs'' have here, because many of these devotees think it's more like a tour, vacation, to come to India. They don't have to follow the rules and regulations . . .		Śyāmasundara: Yeah, I know the difficulty they're having, ''sannyāsīs'' have here, because many of these devotees think it's more like a tour, vacation, to come to India. They don't have to follow the rules and regulations . . .

	Devotee: Right.		'''Devotee:''' Right.

	Śyāmasundara: . . . they're only here temporarily. They're just passing through. So it's very difficult, I know, but still we have to try to train somehow . . .		Śyāmasundara: . . . they're only here temporarily. They're just passing through. So it's very difficult, I know, but still we have to try to train somehow . . .
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	Śyāmasundara: That's what . . . didn't Śaṅkarācārya do that, divide up four parts?		Śyāmasundara: That's what . . . didn't Śaṅkarācārya do that, divide up four parts?

	Devotee: Yes.		'''Devotee:''' Yes.

	Prabhupāda: But we are . . . Śaṅkarācārya was concerned in India. But we are preaching all over the world. Therefore we have divided four . . . twelve. Twelve zones. My idea is like that, Śaṅkarācārya.		Prabhupāda: But we are . . . Śaṅkarācārya was concerned in India. But we are preaching all over the world. Therefore we have divided four . . . twelve. Twelve zones. My idea is like that, Śaṅkarācārya.

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "Devotee (2):" to "'''Devotee (2):'''"

2023-09-13T02:30:17Z

Text replacement - "Devotee (2):" to "'''Devotee (2):'''"

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:30, 13 September 2023
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	Devotee: It's so big. It's so big.		Devotee: It's so big. It's so big.

	Devotee (2): Most of the quality of people that are there are . . . less people of a higher quality in a smaller place, it would do much more good. Like I was in the Philippines by myself, all alone, but still the work would go on much quicker because I could avoid all of this. I could avoid all of this what with we're having right now. I could avoid it completely because I was . . . there was nobody there to cause it—all new people.		'''Devotee (2):''' Most of the quality of people that are there are . . . less people of a higher quality in a smaller place, it would do much more good. Like I was in the Philippines by myself, all alone, but still the work would go on much quicker because I could avoid all of this. I could avoid all of this what with we're having right now. I could avoid it completely because I was . . . there was nobody there to cause it—all new people.

	Śyāmasundara: Everybody here knows everything. (laughter) Like . . .		Śyāmasundara: Everybody here knows everything. (laughter) Like . . .

	Devotee (2): And it goes up very quickly, because the people are automatically attracted. And then you teach them, you train them. So less Americans and just one or two people who want to manage, and then start with the people here, the Indian people. And as they develop and become strong, then develop a center. It may take a long time, but it would be solid. It will be more solid then. Just bring a bunch of Americans here, and then the whole thing just falls to pieces. And then we ruin our reputation in that particular area where we want to open a . . .		'''Devotee (2):''' And it goes up very quickly, because the people are automatically attracted. And then you teach them, you train them. So less Americans and just one or two people who want to manage, and then start with the people here, the Indian people. And as they develop and become strong, then develop a center. It may take a long time, but it would be solid. It will be more solid then. Just bring a bunch of Americans here, and then the whole thing just falls to pieces. And then we ruin our reputation in that particular area where we want to open a . . .

	Prabhupāda: Then what is your suggestion?		Prabhupāda: Then what is your suggestion?

	Devotee (2): That we start a small center and then develop it gradually, with less . . . with less inexperienced people . . .		'''Devotee (2):''' That we start a small center and then develop it gradually, with less . . . with less inexperienced people . . .

	Śyāmasundara: We've had a small center here for . . .		Śyāmasundara: We've had a small center here for . . .
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	'''Devotee (3):''' Well, we're not saying that it . . . he's not saying that that's going to succeed, but at least it may not be as much of a travesty. Whether or not we're going to succeed at all in India in getting Indians to listen to what we are saying, that's another whole point.		'''Devotee (3):''' Well, we're not saying that it . . . he's not saying that that's going to succeed, but at least it may not be as much of a travesty. Whether or not we're going to succeed at all in India in getting Indians to listen to what we are saying, that's another whole point.

	Devotee (2): At least we won't be killing ourselves. At least we won't be making it so that in the future we will have to leave India. We'll be asked to leave. Our visas will be taken away, and we'll be asked to leave. These things can happen very easily. It is not a . . . it is not a . . . it's not an impossible thing. There are places in the world where we can't go already—Singapore. These things have happened. So I feel we should be very, very careful, selective, about who we let manage . . .		'''Devotee (2):''' At least we won't be killing ourselves. At least we won't be making it so that in the future we will have to leave India. We'll be asked to leave. Our visas will be taken away, and we'll be asked to leave. These things can happen very easily. It is not a . . . it is not a . . . it's not an impossible thing. There are places in the world where we can't go already—Singapore. These things have happened. So I feel we should be very, very careful, selective, about who we let manage . . .

	Prabhupāda: At Singapore our men cannot enter.		Prabhupāda: At Singapore our men cannot enter.
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	Śyāmasundara: Yeah.		Śyāmasundara: Yeah.

	Devotee (2): This has happened.		'''Devotee (2):''' This has happened.

	'''Devotee (3):''' There's many places that, although legally we can enter, still people don't like us, you know.		'''Devotee (3):''' There's many places that, although legally we can enter, still people don't like us, you know.
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	Śyāmasundara: Yeah.		Śyāmasundara: Yeah.

	Devotee (2): And if the temple is constructed, it would have to be more rigidly controlled. It would have to be managed by people that by their preaching and by their Kṛṣṇa consciousness can make it so that the people who come and stay in that temple will want to practice ''bhakti''. It can't be a negative ass thing. The negative motivation is not going to keep a person.		'''Devotee (2):''' And if the temple is constructed, it would have to be more rigidly controlled. It would have to be managed by people that by their preaching and by their Kṛṣṇa consciousness can make it so that the people who come and stay in that temple will want to practice ''bhakti''. It can't be a negative ass thing. The negative motivation is not going to keep a person.

	Prabhupāda: Now, such camps, because you are not established, so under the circumstances, what is to be done? To reduce our devotees?		Prabhupāda: Now, such camps, because you are not established, so under the circumstances, what is to be done? To reduce our devotees?
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	Prabhupāda: Huh?		Prabhupāda: Huh?

	Devotee (2): Because not everyone is going to want to be, uh, you know . . . if the temple's not there where the devotees can just come and fall into the schedule and program and activities . . .		'''Devotee (2):''' Because not everyone is going to want to be, uh, you know . . . if the temple's not there where the devotees can just come and fall into the schedule and program and activities . . .

	Prabhupāda: Yes.		Prabhupāda: Yes.

	Devotee (2): . . . then they'll not want to maintain any standard themselves. They just fall back immediately into their old habits, naturally.		'''Devotee (2):''' . . . then they'll not want to maintain any standard themselves. They just fall back immediately into their old habits, naturally.

	Śyāmasundara: Of course, if we could, we could enter the negotiation and save it for a future date, because it won't be available.		Śyāmasundara: Of course, if we could, we could enter the negotiation and save it for a future date, because it won't be available.
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	Prabhupāda: Yes.		Prabhupāda: Yes.

	Devotee (2): What's the use of having a giant temple if, if we all . . . we have seen that all over India. They have giant temples, but no . . .		'''Devotee (2):''' What's the use of having a giant temple if, if we all . . . we have seen that all over India. They have giant temples, but no . . .

	Prabhupāda: No management.		Prabhupāda: No management.

	Devotee (2): No management.		'''Devotee (2):''' No management.

	Pañcadraviḍa: As far as the men, since I think a lot are even . . . some cases they are sending problem cases to India, people they can't manage in the States. I think maybe if you divide, if you actually . . . since in the States, you've divided the States into territories, and certain men have certain territories. If you maybe appoint certain people in charge of territories of India and ask them which men they want, then they will tell you who they want, and the rest they can send away or send somewhere else. Then you'll have solid centers, because the men will actually be desired.		Pañcadraviḍa: As far as the men, since I think a lot are even . . . some cases they are sending problem cases to India, people they can't manage in the States. I think maybe if you divide, if you actually . . . since in the States, you've divided the States into territories, and certain men have certain territories. If you maybe appoint certain people in charge of territories of India and ask them which men they want, then they will tell you who they want, and the rest they can send away or send somewhere else. Then you'll have solid centers, because the men will actually be desired.

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "Devotees:" to "'''Devotees:'''"

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	Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana, as long as our temple is not constructed, we are minimized. So therefore automatically there is no question of negotiating this property.		Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana, as long as our temple is not constructed, we are minimized. So therefore automatically there is no question of negotiating this property.

	Devotees: No, no.		'''Devotees:''' No, no.

	Prabhupāda: Huh?		Prabhupāda: Huh?

RasaRasika: Text replacement - "Devotee (3):" to "'''Devotee (3):'''"

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Text replacement - "Devotee (3):" to "'''Devotee (3):'''"

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:03, 13 September 2023
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	'''Prabhupāda:''' That gives authority.		'''Prabhupāda:''' That gives authority.

	Acyutānanda: Not in ISKCON.		'''Acyutānanda:''' Not in ISKCON.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' That gives authority.		'''Prabhupāda:''' That gives authority.

	Acyutānanda: Not in ISKCON.		'''Acyutānanda:''' Not in ISKCON.

	Śyāmasundara: Yes it does. In US . . .		Śyāmasundara: Yes it does. In US . . .

	Acyutānanda: No, no it doesn't. They do not respect ''sannyāsīs''. (devotees all talk at once)		'''Acyutānanda:''' No, no it doesn't. They do not respect ''sannyāsīs''. (devotees all talk at once)

	Śyāmasundara: Because you may not deserve it, then.		Śyāmasundara: Because you may not deserve it, then.

	Acyutānanda: Now I'm getting so . . . the thing is, they may say like that, but behind my back people are talking, saying this . . .		'''Acyutānanda:''' Now I'm getting so . . . the thing is, they may say like that, but behind my back people are talking, saying this . . .

	'''Prabhupāda:''' Now if they do not also obey the orders of the ''sannyāsī'', then naturally . . . but that thing should be brought to the notice of higher, or some official, president. Then steps should be taken that, "If you cannot follow the rules and regulations, then you must leave." It is plain thing. There is no question of fighting. First thing is that a ''sannyāsī'', leader, they should behave themselves according to the rules and regulations, and then ask others to follow. The others who do not follow, once, twice excused, three times, "Please leave." Like that.		'''Prabhupāda:''' Now if they do not also obey the orders of the ''sannyāsī'', then naturally . . . but that thing should be brought to the notice of higher, or some official, president. Then steps should be taken that, "If you cannot follow the rules and regulations, then you must leave." It is plain thing. There is no question of fighting. First thing is that a ''sannyāsī'', leader, they should behave themselves according to the rules and regulations, and then ask others to follow. The others who do not follow, once, twice excused, three times, "Please leave." Like that.
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	Śyāmasundara: If, if he follows strictly the principles, then he'll be automatically respected.		Śyāmasundara: If, if he follows strictly the principles, then he'll be automatically respected.

	Acyutānanda: Now I wanted to ask somebody to leave, but how does he leave? We have to buy him his ticket or something. There was a boy, one . . .		'''Acyutānanda:''' Now I wanted to ask somebody to leave, but how does he leave? We have to buy him his ticket or something. There was a boy, one . . .

	'''Prabhupāda:''' Leave means he can go to other center.		'''Prabhupāda:''' Leave means he can go to other center.

	Acyutānanda: I wanted to ask him to leave, but where would he go? Who will pay for his way out?		'''Acyutānanda:''' I wanted to ask him to leave, but where would he go? Who will pay for his way out?

	'''Prabhupāda:''' Then one thing is, that this ultimate, we are canvassing, we are preaching to bring men. To get them out is not our business. That is not our business that, but if he is incorrigible, he is not . . . then he must leave. That is . . . if you are making so much preaching, why, to bring men, not to ask them to go. If for some paltry reason you ask, that is not . . .		'''Prabhupāda:''' Then one thing is, that this ultimate, we are canvassing, we are preaching to bring men. To get them out is not our business. That is not our business that, but if he is incorrigible, he is not . . . then he must leave. That is . . . if you are making so much preaching, why, to bring men, not to ask them to go. If for some paltry reason you ask, that is not . . .
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	'''Prabhupāda:''' Why not some . . . some people clean like this, you have to get cleaning . . . (indistinct)		'''Prabhupāda:''' Why not some . . . some people clean like this, you have to get cleaning . . . (indistinct)

	Acyutānanda: . . . (indistinct)		'''Acyutānanda:''' . . . (indistinct)

	Śyāmasundara: If they won't, then you show them how. You . . . you do it also.		Śyāmasundara: If they won't, then you show them how. You . . . you do it also.

	Acyutānanda: . . . because so many people have come and gone. We had a cleaning group, and it left for other parties.		'''Acyutānanda:''' . . . because so many people have come and gone. We had a cleaning group, and it left for other parties.

	Śyāmasundara: No, but I am just saying, there are many men there who could have cleaned, but they refused to do it because they are following your examples.		Śyāmasundara: No, but I am just saying, there are many men there who could have cleaned, but they refused to do it because they are following your examples.

	Acyutānanda: I'm cleaning my room; I'm cleaning outside also. I don't . . . seen it.		'''Acyutānanda:''' I'm cleaning my room; I'm cleaning outside also. I don't . . . seen it.

	Śyāmasundara: I'm not criticizing, I'm just . . .		Śyāmasundara: I'm not criticizing, I'm just . . .
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	'''Prabhupāda:''' Anyway, whatever is done is done, you should be followed like that, that ''āpani ācari prabhu jīvere śikhāya''. This should be the principle. One should teach others by behaving himself correctly. Then it will be . . . everyone should remain cleansed, everyone should rise early in the morning, begin to work, comes to . . . everyone routine work. So then you can ask them, "Why you are not trying? Why you are not . . ." Then he will accept . . . (indistinct) . . . but this principle should be followed, ''āpani ācari prabhu jīvere śikhāya''. Is it not?		'''Prabhupāda:''' Anyway, whatever is done is done, you should be followed like that, that ''āpani ācari prabhu jīvere śikhāya''. This should be the principle. One should teach others by behaving himself correctly. Then it will be . . . everyone should remain cleansed, everyone should rise early in the morning, begin to work, comes to . . . everyone routine work. So then you can ask them, "Why you are not trying? Why you are not . . ." Then he will accept . . . (indistinct) . . . but this principle should be followed, ''āpani ācari prabhu jīvere śikhāya''. Is it not?

	Acyutānanda: Yes. Well, for myself in particular, I don't think that many people take my words very heavily. There is so much bad talking about me. First they say the songs are ''māyā'', then the tunes are ''māyā''. They have . . . behind my back I hear all kinds of things they are saying. So nobody takes my words seriously. Even though I may quote from any scripture right, they don't respect me.		'''Acyutānanda:''' Yes. Well, for myself in particular, I don't think that many people take my words very heavily. There is so much bad talking about me. First they say the songs are ''māyā'', then the tunes are ''māyā''. They have . . . behind my back I hear all kinds of things they are saying. So nobody takes my words seriously. Even though I may quote from any scripture right, they don't respect me.

	'''Prabhupāda:''' What is that ''māyā''? Songs are ''māyā''?		'''Prabhupāda:''' What is that ''māyā''? Songs are ''māyā''?

	Acyutānanda: As soon as I left Calcutta, then all the ''bhajanas'', they are all, "Oh, that's Gauḍīya Maṭha poison." Then, "Okay, the songs are alright, but the tunes are poison." Now how can I overcome that?		'''Acyutānanda:''' As soon as I left Calcutta, then all the ''bhajanas'', they are all, "Oh, that's Gauḍīya Maṭha poison." Then, "Okay, the songs are alright, but the tunes are poison." Now how can I overcome that?

	Pañcadraviḍa: I heard something in reference to that. You wrote one of the devotees in Calcutta. You wrote . . . he came to Bombay, Bhavānanda, and he said . . . and he had signed a letter something like, "I pray that I may be engaged in the service of my Guru Mahārāja." And you wrote back, "We are personalists to the letter, so that when we say 'Guru Mahārāja' we always say name, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, or Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. We don't just leave it in . . . as vague 'Guru Mahārāja.' " So we were singing, ''jaya prabhupāda, jaya gurudeva'', and he was saying, "Well, that is impersonalist."		Pañcadraviḍa: I heard something in reference to that. You wrote one of the devotees in Calcutta. You wrote . . . he came to Bombay, Bhavānanda, and he said . . . and he had signed a letter something like, "I pray that I may be engaged in the service of my Guru Mahārāja." And you wrote back, "We are personalists to the letter, so that when we say 'Guru Mahārāja' we always say name, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, or Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. We don't just leave it in . . . as vague 'Guru Mahārāja.' " So we were singing, ''jaya prabhupāda, jaya gurudeva'', and he was saying, "Well, that is impersonalist."

	Acyutānanda: Also he says: "''Nitāi-gaura haribol'', that is also . . . that's ''māyā''." So, what is that?		'''Acyutānanda:''' Also he says: "''Nitāi-gaura haribol'', that is also . . . that's ''māyā''." So, what is that?

	Pañcadraviḍa: And so he was saying that all these ''bhajanas'', they are . . . they are not bona fide, because they are, have . . .		Pañcadraviḍa: And so he was saying that all these ''bhajanas'', they are . . . they are not bona fide, because they are, have . . .
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	Pañcadraviḍa: Bhavānanda. Because of the letter you wrote to him saying that we are personalist to the letter.		Pañcadraviḍa: Bhavānanda. Because of the letter you wrote to him saying that we are personalist to the letter.

	Acyutānanda: So it means I am a Māyāvādī, that's what it means.		'''Acyutānanda:''' So it means I am a Māyāvādī, that's what it means.

	Pañcadraviḍa: Well . . .		Pañcadraviḍa: Well . . .
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	Śyāmasundara: It's a matter of overall conduct, not just individual, specific things.		Śyāmasundara: It's a matter of overall conduct, not just individual, specific things.

	Acyutānanda: That overall I'm a Māyāvādī.		'''Acyutānanda:''' That overall I'm a Māyāvādī.

	'''Devotee:''' I find an overall bad atmosphere in India. Resentment against many of the devotees. Party politics and different things like that are going on. It's not limited, it's going on all over India.		'''Devotee:''' I find an overall bad atmosphere in India. Resentment against many of the devotees. Party politics and different things like that are going on. It's not limited, it's going on all over India.

	Acyutānanda: That's so . . .		'''Acyutānanda:''' That's so . . .

	'''Devotee:''' Very heavy.		'''Devotee:''' Very heavy.

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:22, 13 September 2023
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	Śyāmasundara: We've had a small center here for nearly a year, eight months.		Śyāmasundara: We've had a small center here for nearly a year, eight months.

	Devotee (3): Well, we're not saying that it . . . he's not saying that that's going to succeed, but at least it may not be as much of a travesty. Whether or not we're going to succeed at all in India in getting Indians to listen to what we are saying, that's another whole point.		'''Devotee (3):''' Well, we're not saying that it . . . he's not saying that that's going to succeed, but at least it may not be as much of a travesty. Whether or not we're going to succeed at all in India in getting Indians to listen to what we are saying, that's another whole point.

	Devotee (2): At least we won't be killing ourselves. At least we won't be making it so that in the future we will have to leave India. We'll be asked to leave. Our visas will be taken away, and we'll be asked to leave. These things can happen very easily. It is not a . . . it is not a . . . it's not an impossible thing. There are places in the world where we can't go already—Singapore. These things have happened. So I feel we should be very, very careful, selective, about who we let manage . . .		Devotee (2): At least we won't be killing ourselves. At least we won't be making it so that in the future we will have to leave India. We'll be asked to leave. Our visas will be taken away, and we'll be asked to leave. These things can happen very easily. It is not a . . . it is not a . . . it's not an impossible thing. There are places in the world where we can't go already—Singapore. These things have happened. So I feel we should be very, very careful, selective, about who we let manage . . .
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	Devotee (2): This has happened.		Devotee (2): This has happened.

	Devotee (3): There's many places that, although legally we can enter, still people don't like us, you know.		'''Devotee (3):''' There's many places that, although legally we can enter, still people don't like us, you know.

	Prabhupāda: That Singapore, legally our men cannot enter.		Prabhupāda: That Singapore, legally our men cannot enter.
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	Śyāmasundara: They wouldn't even let you in.		Śyāmasundara: They wouldn't even let you in.

	Devotee (3): I think that his point . . . I think we spoke about this in Manila, was that anywhere in the world, in, as a general policy, from what I've experienced, is that if one or two people are sent to an area, or are in an area, and they are given full authority to try to get that population to engage in ''bhakti-yoga,'' engage in this process, that that gradual development with the local people, that that has more effect than . . .		'''Devotee (3):''' I think that his point . . . I think we spoke about this in Manila, was that anywhere in the world, in, as a general policy, from what I've experienced, is that if one or two people are sent to an area, or are in an area, and they are given full authority to try to get that population to engage in ''bhakti-yoga,'' engage in this process, that that gradual development with the local people, that that has more effect than . . .

	Śyāmasundara: Yeah, it's more successful.		Śyāmasundara: Yeah, it's more successful.

	Devotee (3): . . . than if we bring in a big party and try to do a big thing. And then, then the person has to get strong who's doing it. If I have to go somewhere, then I have to get strong for myself; I have to, you know, start from scratch.		'''Devotee (3):''' . . . than if we bring in a big party and try to do a big thing. And then, then the person has to get strong who's doing it. If I have to go somewhere, then I have to get strong for myself; I have to, you know, start from scratch.

	Śyāmasundara: Yeah, I know the difficulty they're having, ''sannyāsīs'' have here, because many of these devotees think it's more like a tour, vacation, to come to India. They don't have to follow the rules and regulations . . .		Śyāmasundara: Yeah, I know the difficulty they're having, ''sannyāsīs'' have here, because many of these devotees think it's more like a tour, vacation, to come to India. They don't have to follow the rules and regulations . . .
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	Śyāmasundara: Of course, if we could, we could enter the negotiation and save it for a future date, because it won't be available.		Śyāmasundara: Of course, if we could, we could enter the negotiation and save it for a future date, because it won't be available.

	Devotee (3): I don't think we need to worry about that.		'''Devotee (3):''' I don't think we need to worry about that.

	Prabhupāda: Huh?		Prabhupāda: Huh?

	Devotee (3): I think that if we . . . if we don't worry about the material thing at all, that if we do the sp . . . we start and we have a spiritual base, that it will grow naturally and Kṛṣṇa will provide us with any material facilities we need. We don't need to try to get things for the future.		'''Devotee (3):''' I think that if we . . . if we don't worry about the material thing at all, that if we do the sp . . . we start and we have a spiritual base, that it will grow naturally and Kṛṣṇa will provide us with any material facilities we need. We don't need to try to get things for the future.

	Śyāmasundara: Yeah.		Śyāmasundara: Yeah.

	Devotee (3): If we have devotees then . . .		'''Devotee (3):''' If we have devotees then . . .

	Śyāmasundara: That's why I think Kṛṣṇa doesn't want us to have it, really.		Śyāmasundara: That's why I think Kṛṣṇa doesn't want us to have it, really.
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	Prabhupāda: So, make something like that, because I cannot tax my brain with the administration.		Prabhupāda: So, make something like that, because I cannot tax my brain with the administration.

	Devotee (3): Yes.		'''Devotee (3):''' Yes.

	Śyāmasundara: Well, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa will be in Hyderabad, and we can ask him to do it.		Śyāmasundara: Well, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa will be in Hyderabad, and we can ask him to do it.