760817 - Interview - Hyderabad

Conversations by Date, 1976

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this lecture

760817IV-HYDERABAD - August 17, 1976 - 46:08 Minutes

(Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House)

Prabhupāda: In the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says . . . the first beginning of the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā . . . (aside) You have to go. No children; otherwise it will be disturbed. When Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as the spiritual master, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). First of all, he was talking like friends. When he saw, "The friendly talking will not help us," so Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as his spiritual master. Then as spiritual master He said: aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase (BG 2.11): "My dear Arjuna, you are lamenting on the subject matter which is not the subject matter of lamentation, and you are talking like a very learned man." Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. This body, either alive or dead, it is not a serious subject matter of study, neither a learned man laments over it. This is the subject matter of Bhagavad-gītā, or spiritual knowledge. Those who are not human being . . . according to Vedic śāstra, anyone who has no self-realization, he's animal. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). If one is identifying with this body, "I am this body, which is made of three elements, kapha, pitta, vāyu . . ." Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke. Tri-dhātuke, this combination of three elements. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13): he's animal.

So practically now in this age especially, everyone is identifying with this body. That is the basic principle of nationalism, communism, or this "ism" or that "ism": the bodily conception of life. And according to Vedic version, anyone who is identifying with this body, he is animal. So under the circumstances—(aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa—we are trying to revive the spiritual education of the human society. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement: what is spirit soul, what is its identification, what is God, what is our relationship with Him, how to work on that plan. Then we become happy. Otherwise, you may make various plan on material basis, it will never be successful, and there is no question of happiness, because the basic principle is lost.

Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). This was spoken by Śukadeva Gosvāmī to Mahārāja Parīkṣit, that śrotavyādīni rājendra nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ. The subject matter of hearing, there are many thousands for persons who has no self-realization.

śrotavyādīni rājendra

nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ

apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ

gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām

(SB 2.1.2)

Those who are not searching after self-realization, they have got many subject matter for hearing and deliberate. That means material subject matter. We have in the newspaper different subject matters for different public interest. But those who are searching after spiritual realization, athāto brahma jijñāsā. As it is stated in the Vedānta-sūtra, also in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also, jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā (SB 1.2.10). Human life means tattva-jijñāsā, inquiry about the Absolute Truth. But that is now stopped. People are not interested self-realization, tattva-jijñāsā.

So this is an attempt to revive their spiritual consciousness, and it is authorized on the basis of Bhagavad-gītā as it is, without misinterpretation, and people are taking to it. So it is India's culture, and if we distribute this knowledge systematically, there are departments, cultural departments. So the things are there. If we cooperate, government and the public, then we can give to the whole world something which is very substantial. And there is no difficulty. The things are there, Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and this is our movement.

Now if you have got any question, you can ask.

Interviewer (1): (indistinct) . . . from the West and not from India itself?

Prabhupāda: India is already there, but you have kindly suppressed them. Bhagavad-gītā is there, but are you preaching Bhagavad-gītā? Why you don't preach this great science? Why you are disinterested? Answer this question.

Interviewer (1): But who has to preach?

Prabhupāda: You have to preach, because you are born in India.

Interviewer (2): But you yourself didn't preach it here. First you went to USA.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is preaching. But the thing is that it is not in India, not outside India. But it is the duty of every Indian to do it. I tried to preach it, begin it from India, but nobody joined. Still they are not joining. What can I do?

Interviewer (3): But how to make the people realize the importance of Bhagavad-gītā?

Prabhupāda: If you don't realize, here is Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Bhagavad-gītā was spoken in India. If you don't take interest, who can induce you? If you don't take interest at all, those who are preaching Bhagavad-gītā, they are making different interpretation.

Interviewer (3): I am a layman. I do not know the importance . . .

Prabhupāda: You are not a layman, you are a representative of paper.

Interviewer (2): He doesn't mean that he's a layman, but suppose he is a layman . . .

Prabhupāda: Layman, he must go to a person who is experienced.

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ

jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ

(BG 4.34)

This is the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. If you are layman you must go to a person who has seen the truth. If you remain at home, then how you can see?

Interviewer (2): But I am so preoccupied with my . . .

Prabhupāda: You are taking so many education . . .

Interviewer (2): . . . that I don't have to time to contemplate or study such things. Don't you think it's the responsibility of people like you to . . .

Prabhupāda: That means you are not properly trained up. The thing is, the first business of human being is to inquire about the spiritual subject matter. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the Vedānta philosophy. Now we have got this human form of body, it is your duty to inquire about the spiritual subject matter. But if your guardians, if your parents, if your government does not teach you, then it is our misfortune.

Interviewer (3): Do you want this to become a part of the educational system here?

Prabhupāda: This is the first education. Otherwise it is animal. Animal does not require absolute education. Animal is not able to understand what is self, what is God. But a man can. Therefore the man's first business is to understand this self-realization.

Interviewer (3): Do you think it will come to India via the West now?

Prabhupāda: I don't follow.

Interviewer (2): Will it come to India via the West?

Prabhupāda: India is already there. You are neglecting. Why don't you admit that you are neglecting?

Interviewer (3): Will that neglect go, disappear, through the West?

Prabhupāda: How will that? If you don't like it, how it will go?

Interviewer (4): No, no, my colleague's point is, we have not been accepting . . . we are not able to understand Bhagavad-gītā on our own. Just because first Western people understand it, and because of their . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no, you have neglected. My charge is that you have neglected. Bhagavad-gītā is there. Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in India. Bhagavad-gītā is there. I think every home has got a Bhagavad-gītā. But you do not study; you neglect it. That is your fault.

Interviewer (3): No, that is because it is not part of the educational system.

Prabhupāda: Because you have made it. It is the first educational system.

Interviewer (3): No, but the system that we have here . . .

Prabhupāda: That you have introduced. That is your unfortunate case.

Interviewer (4): No, that is because of historical reasons. We were ruined by a foreign . . .

Prabhupāda: If the real subject matter of study you neglect, that is your negligence, your misfortune.

Interviewer (3): Now how to rectify this . . .

Prabhupāda: You can take it now. You are simply arguing. Why don't you take it? That means you don't want to take it. There is the thing. But if you want, you can take it. But if you don't want, then how we can help you?

Interviewer (5): On your return from West do you feel . . . do you think your movement in India has gained ground or created consciousness . . .

Prabhupāda: I am not interested in any particular country. This is meant for the whole human society. As you think "India" or "America," we do not think like that. We take the opportunity. Wherever it is possible to introduce more and more, we take that opportunity.

Interviewer (5): What is the response in India, you met?

Prabhupāda: Indian response we have seen when we held meeting in Calcutta, Bombay, Madras: thousands and thousands of people come here to hear about Bhagavad-gītā. Inherently they are inclined, but there is no systematic education. That is the defect. Now the Janmāṣṭamī day is coming, I think every Indian will observe Kṛṣṇa Janmāṣṭamī, without any fail. But they are not being educated systematically about Kṛṣṇa. They know Kṛṣṇa, they are inclined to Kṛṣṇa, the education of Kṛṣṇa is there, but nobody is interested to give them properly, systematically. That is the difficulty.

Interviewer (4): How is the response in the West?

Prabhupāda: Of course it is a foreign thing for them, but still they are coming and taking it very seriously.

Interviewer (5): Do you think they are taking to it because it is novel?

Prabhupāda: Huh? No, many novel things go from here. But they are sticking to it. They are now seriously taking to it. They understand that this is a great science, and we are publishing books. We have already published eighty-four books like that.

Interviewer (5): How many?

Prabhupāda: Eighty-four, of four hundred pages. And you'll be surprised that throughout the whole world we are selling books about sixty thousand dollars a day. That means six lakhs of rupees. That is the basic income for our expenditure, 102 centers all over the world.

Interviewer (3): A central minister in the Parliament recently said that he will conduct a probe to see if there was anything fishy in this . . .

Prabhupāda: Therefore I am bringing before you. Before probing, you try to understand what is our income. We are selling these books six lakhs rupees daily, and we are spending it fifty percent for reprinting the books and fifty percent for expanding temples all over the world. This is our activities. Now you probe it or understand it.

Interviewer (3): This is the only source of revenue for the society?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interviewer (4): Fifty percent books and for temples fifty percent?

Prabhupāda: Fifty percent for expanding temples and fifty percent for reprinting books.

Interviewer (4): Do you have any other source, like donations or something like, that for your movement?

Prabhupāda: Very small. Mostly we have got a few cases of donation of land and house. Not very large sum of money. Never.

Interviewer (4): But I thought Henry Ford has given some . . . I thought the Ford family has given some huge donation.

Prabhupāda: Ford, he has given us two, three houses, not donation. But we have purchased two, three houses by the money of Mr. Ford, Alfred Ford. He's my disciple.

Interviewer (4): Some members of the Parliament say the movement is involving in some anti-Indian activities. What could be irritating . . .?

Prabhupāda: So you are intelligent man, you see what is that anti-Indian. (laughter) We are spreading Indian culture, and this is anti-Indian. How foolish they are. Just see. We are spreading Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and it is anti-Indian. Do you think like that?

Interviewer (5): What if somebody is using this as a cover?

Prabhupāda: Huh? But if you have no eyes to see inside, you see the cover only. What can I do? (laughter) If you are so blind, what can I do? (laughter)

Interviewer (5): What has been your . . . (indistinct) . . . recently towards solving world problems . . .

Prabhupāda: Every problem can be solved by Bhagavad-gītā. Every problem can be solved by Bhagavad-gītā. You put any problem and there is answer.

Interviewer (5): Recite an instance of how this movement has helped in solving any specific issue, I mean special problem.

Prabhupāda: We think the real problem is they do not know what they are.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

(BG 2.13)

Our modern education, they do not believe that there is spirit soul within the body and the spirit soul transmigrates from one body to another. Where is that education? Is there any education that there is spirit soul within the body, and that spirit soul is transmigrating from one body to another? Is there any education, scientific education, all over the world? That is the statement in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Interviewer (4): You mean to say that this should become part, an integral part of the educational system?

Prabhupāda: That is the most important part. If you do not know what you are, then you are talking like a nonsense. If you have lost your identity, then what is your education?

Interviewer (4): No, but we should realize the politicians . . .

Prabhupāda: It is not a question of politician or economics. It is general education, that you must know your identity, what you are. Then knowledge . . .

Interviewer (4): I am living under the system, and that system is . . .

Prabhupāda: But if the system is wrong, then you are living wrongly. You are misled.

Interviewer (4): That means the movement should make an attack on the politicians, the people who make the decisions.

Prabhupāda: No. Politician, of course, it is, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). This system, this science, was understood by the rājarṣi, kings who were as good as ṛṣis, rājarṣis. So where is that politician, politician as good as a ṛṣi? That is the difficulty. It is meant for rājarṣi. Rāja and ṛṣi. Just like Janaka Mahārāja, Parīkṣit Mahārāja, Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja, Prahlāda Mahārāja, they were kings, but they were at the same time so great and saintly, they were called rājarṣi, and this is a subject matter for the rājarṣis. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam, manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt (BG 4.1), uh . . .

Harikeśa: Vivasvān manave prāha.

Prabhupāda: Ah, vivasvān manave prāha manur ikṣvākave . . . evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). So where is rājarṣi? That is the difficulty. Where is that brāhmaṇa, where is that kṣatriya, where is that system? Now anyone can capture the political power by hook and crook. That is another thing. But it is meant for the rājarṣi, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. Where is their training? The politicians, where he is trained up as ṛṣi? There is no such service.

Interviewer (4): Has there been any official opposition to your movement in any country?

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Interviewer (3): Your movement is spreading largely. Do you think that it will be welcome in the Communist countries?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I have been in Moscow. I saw many learned professors. We are selling our books there.

Interviewer (3): You are selling your books in Moscow?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Everyone, every intelligent man, will accept. We are selling books in East Germany, which is Communist. They are taking our books.

Interviewer (4): Are there any centers of the Society in the Communist world?

Prabhupāda: We have not tried so far. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167).

Interviewer (4): Maybe such a thing is not allowed.

Prabhupāda: No, we have gone there, but there are difficulties to start. People are interested. Everywhere people are interested.

Interviewer (4): What is the response in the Islamic countries?

Prabhupāda: Yes, we have got many students. In Iran we have got center, and there are many Muslims, they are our student.

Interviewer (5): What is the response in Iran?

Hari-śauri: In Iran.

Prabhupāda: Iran? The response, they are hearing, but some of them, they are already converted student. Our head of the institution in Iran is Ātreya Ṛṣi. His name was Attar Marz.

Interviewer (5): You have some project here. Can you kindly explain what is that?

Prabhupāda: Our project is Bhagavad-gītā. You learn Bhagavad-gītā and apply it practically in your life.

Interviewer (5): . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are trying to establish an institution in Kurukṣetra to teach Bhagavad-gītā in practical life, and inviting students all over the world. That is our program. We have asked for some land from the government. So if the government gives us the land, we can try it also.

Interviewer (5): What about city, Hyderabad?

Prabhupāda: The same program.

Interviewer (4): Here also you have some land or something, I was told.

Prabhupāda: Here?

Interviewer (5): In Hyderabad.

Interviewer (4): You have some project?

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are trying to . . . (to devotee) Land. What is that land? You can give the description.

Devotee: It is near . . . (indistinct) . . . village. It has not yet been confirmed; it is under procedure. But we are trying to develop a big project over there, depending on the formal procedures which will be . . .

Interviewer (4): What project is it likely to be?

Prabhupāda: Our project is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Come here, live peacefully, keep your body fit, and work for yourself. You produce your own food, you produce your own cloth, don't be very much anxious for artificial necessities, and save time, and be advanced in spiritual life.

Interviewer (3): Some sort of a religious epithet.

Prabhupāda: It is not exactly religious. You have taken by it because we misunderstand the meaning of religion. Religion generally understood a kind of cult and faith. But in the Vedic literature, religion means the characteristic. Just like sugar is sweet, that is its religion. If sugar becomes pungent, that is not sugar's characteristic. Similarly, a human being must be God conscious. So that God consciousness is religion. Because in the human form of life one can understand what is God, and if he does not become, he remains an animal. Animal cannot understand. So therefore his business is how to athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is not our manufactured word, this is the Vedānta words. Atha, now we have got this human form body, based on that transmigration of the soul after millions and millions of years, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19), you have got this human form of life, now it is your business to inquire about the Absolute Truth. This is the business of human life. And āhāra-nidra-bhaya-maithuna, how to eat, how to sleep, how to enjoy sex life and how to defend, that is animal business. If you remain busy with these four principles of bodily necessities of life, āhāra-nidra-bhaya-maithuna, then you remain on the animal platform. Beyond that, when you inquire about God, that is human life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. So we are trying to raise him from this animal life to human life. This is our business.

Interviewer (3): So you help people inquire God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because that is the business. Athāto brahma jijñāsā But they are forgetting that, that there is necessity of inquiring about God. To inquire about my relationship with God, what is God, they are neglecting this. Not only here, all over the world, it is becoming more and more acute.

Interviewer (4): So in relation to your movement, where does Marxism stand?

Prabhupāda: It is not my movement, it is the Vedic culture. Don't think . . . if you say: "My movement," I have manufactured something. Not. This is the Vedic culture.

Interviewer (4): No, from the standpoint of this culture . . .

Prabhupāda: Standpoint is that I am trying to revive the Vedic culture, that's all. That is my business. I am not manufacturing anything.

Interviewer (4): No, but how do you explain the advance that Marxism has made in the world?

Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that?

Hari-śauri: How do you explain the advance that Marxism has made?

Prabhupāda: Well, there are so many "isms." If I go to criticize and study, it will take most of our time. Better positively present what you want. If you like, you can take it, that's all. There are so many "isms." When we become animal, then we manufacture so many "isms."

vyavasāyātmikā buddhir

ekeha kuru-nandana

bahu-śākhā hy anantāś ca

buddhayo 'vyavasāyinām

(BG 2.41)

Those who are not fixed up, they have got so many "isms," and those who are fixed up, they have got one "ism"—that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). We are teaching that.

Interviewer (4): So is it correct from you have said that any culture . . .

Prabhupāda: It is correct because Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa is infallible. We are not manufacturing anything, so it is correct because Kṛṣṇa says. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). He is the supreme authority. But we have no faith in Kṛṣṇa, therefore we manufacture something other than Kṛṣṇa. That is our misfortune.

Interviewer (4): You mean to say that any system that doesn't subscribe to this movement has no future at all?

Prabhupāda: No.

Interviewer (4): But that is . . . (indistinct) . . . that is implication of what you . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, that we say practically. What is the use of "ism," manufactured by imperfect senses? We have got defects. Our . . . we commit mistake. Who is the person who does not commit mistake? None. We accept this body, which I am not. This is called pramada. Pramada, vipralipsa, without any perfect knowledge you want to teach. That is cheating. Vipralipsa. And karaṇāpāṭava, our senses are imperfect. So how you can give perfect knowledge with all this imperfection? Unless you become perfect, you cannot give perfect knowledge. So any knowledge given by any imperfect person, we reject immediately, useless waste of time. And actually that is the fact. If you are blind, you cannot see. You say: "Here is the elephant, a big stambha, pillar," by seeing his leg, by touching his leg. But elephant is just like a pillar? That is our speculation. Andha-kūpa. What is called? Kūpa-maṇḍūkana. A frog in the well is trying to study Atlantic Ocean.

Devotee: Kūpa-maṇḍūka.

Prabhupāda: Kūpa-maṇḍūka. What you know about the Atlantic Ocean who's living within three feet of land, er, water? Kūpa-maṇḍūka.

Interviewer: Ismein ek shanka hai. Hum kehte hain kupastha mundaka aur aap kehte hain kupa manduka. (There is a doubt. We say kupastha manduka and you say kupa manduka.)

Prabhupāda: Upastha means . . .

Interviewer: Dusra baat hai . . . (The other thing is . . .)

Prabhupāda: Samāsa. So we are imperfect, just like they are going to study the planets. What they will study from here? This kind of knowledge has no value, speculation.

Interviewer (4): That is something inborn, isn't it? That scientists . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is your inquisiti . . . you have got born inquisitiveness, jijñāsu. That is especially manifested in human form of life. So for jijñāsu it is recommended, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). You have to go to the proper person. So that we are not doing. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). These are the Vedic injunctions. Jijñāsu is our natural instinct, but we go to who has no knowledge. That is the difficulty. We are misled. But the knowledge is there already: the Vedic knowledge is there. There are so many Vedas, Upaniṣads, Vedānta-sūtra and Bhagavad-gītā, Rāmāyaṇa, Mahābhārata, Purāṇas. But there is no systematic study of this literature. We are neglecting.

Interviewer (5): Swāmījī, another doubt. In this mahā-mantra that you publicize, Hare Kṛṣṇa, it is Kṛṣṇa that is emphasized . . . (indistinct) . . . emphasis His Bhāgavata and other things are popularized. Is it corresponding . . .

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is the origin of everything. If you have studied Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says, aham ādir hi devānām (BG 10.2). Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). So Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. If you accept it that this is supreme name of God, Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma:

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

(CC Adi 17.21)

This is the Vedic injunction. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He said, paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. In the Bhāgavata it is said, kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet (SB 12.3.51). These things are there. It is not a manufactured program. It is based on śāstra. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet. Kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ. These things are there. You have to accept some authority. If you don't accept authority, you speculate. That is your business, but we don't do it. We accept the authority.

Interviewer (4): The same claim is made by Durgā also.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Interviewer (4): . . . (indistinct) . . . śakti cult, they also give you the same . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, Durgā, we say:

sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā

chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā

icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā

govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

(BS 5.44)

Durgā is all-powerful within this material world, but she is acting under the direction of Govinda. She is not acting independently. In the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). "Under My supervision." Therefore Kṛṣṇa is the supreme authority. (break) . . . but they go to the supreme person who can give spiritual knowledge. Durgā is not neglected.

Mr. Rao: With your permission, I must thank . . . with the permission of Swāmījī, my friends, I welcome you to my humble house. Today, though you are all very, very busy, but you have made it a point to come and listen to Swāmījī speak to you theory, lessons, and his belief and faith in it. It depends how we take it. Because I have faith in him, I have faith in his teachings, that is why I, being a politician, I being a member of Parliament and the legislative assembly, deputy minister and the ambassador, I have requested and begged of him to come to my humble house to spread his knowledge, which he is giving to the other parts of the world. Last time he visited in a very similar manner, we have got a small gathering here. So at that time I hope you will pardon me, I couldn't think of you all, thinking that, you know, the journalist friends are my good friends, and they are very knowledgeable friends, and that is why they can put so many questions. And by putting so many questions will get the answers. By that we are enlightened.

So that is why now it is the time for Swāmījī to go for maṅgala-ārati. He has given me something. I am a student of Bhagavad-gītā. My gurujī is there, he's doing pūjā. He has given me something when I met him, when I heard him. He has given me a gupta-dāna. That is:

dātavyam iti yad dānaṁ

dīyate 'nupakāriṇe

deśe kāle ca pātre ca

tad dānaṁ sāttvikaṁ smṛtam

(BG 17.20)

It is in the Fourteenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā. It is as far as sukṛta is concerned. So that is why he has given me something that indirectly gupta-dāna. So I said always I should follow. Unfortunately, I could not meet him. Recently, when I was . . . 'till recently when I was an ambassador I was to go to Nairobi. I was in Somalia, but unfortunately things couldn't materialize. But now if at all I get an opportunity of going abroad, I shall be visiting all the institutions, their organizations, their temples, because I am a member of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, Life Member. I have canvassed, some have become. Canvassed means I've just put a word. Some have become, I requested, some of my friends who have not become, to become members of Kṛṣṇa conscious, permanent members, Life Members, like Mrs. Yamuna is here. Yamuna's husband, Raman Rao is here. And I would like you also to become, others friends also to become.

Prabhupāda: As I was explaining, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). If the big, big politicians, head of the state, they understand, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ lokas tad anuvartate (BG 3.21), others will follow.

Mr. Rao: Others will follow. So I must thank you for coming. I request you, if you have little time, you could sit there and listen to Swāmījī—other people also are coming—and have little prasādam and go, see, after having come to my humble house, see my pūjā room also, how humbly I keep that pūjā room, so that we learn, we must learn to keep up our religion. When we become educated, when we become ministers, ambassadors, we forget our . . . when we become big people, very big people, our eyes jump up and go to the head here. When we become rich people and money people—who is speaking to you? Not a rich man. A man who comes from a humble family, the man who was born in a tiled-roofed house.

So I have never changed. My . . . among my friends, you have seen a friends sitting here, and also the village which I come from, he has seen where I am staying and where I am staying now. But I am not changed. But at the same time I have not forgotten my religion. I have not changed my faith. Many people say Kya saab ap khate pite . . . (Sir, what will you eat and drink . . .) you must know that I drink. Am I a drunkard? Am I a trouble-maker? No. Sometimes in the society it becomes a necessity. I am not a sādhu, I am not a sannyāsī, I have not renounced the world. Many of you have drunk with me. Some of you at least. So what? Am I a sinner, if I remember my religion, if I pray my God, if I pray my Lord? No. I do not dupe anybody, do not cheat anybody, do not harm anybody, do not hurt anybody. That's what I have been following. That is why I think my God has been very, very kind to me. That is why, because of Lord Kṛṣṇa, all of you have been very kind to me throughout . . . can you imagine a poor man born in a poor family winning four elections without money? People spend lakhs. Lord knows in 1952 how much money have I spent. Two thousand rupees, '58. Fifty-seven maybe twelve thousand rupees. Sixty-two maybe about forty to forty-five thousand. Of course, '67 was expensive for me. I had to sell away my humble house.

So this is all faith. Faith in God, faith in country, that is patriotism. Without patriotism we talk and yap a lot: "What do you think of this? What do you think of this?" My country is my country, no other country. This is my country. That is deśa-bhakti. All people say that, you know, "My religion is my religion, that is my bhakti. But my country comes first." That is known as patriotism. In Urdu it is said, (Urdu): "We will die for the nation one day." If you remember, my friends, I was one of those in 1962 offered to join as a soldier against Chinese aggression. Not only offered; I have submitted my resignation to Jawaharlal Nehru, which was not accepted because of certain problems at that time. Because of my age, because of my age, and also the Bilateral Talks, Colombo Proposals came. Never mind. That should be the spirit among us, and particularly youngsters. Particularly youngsters. They must not forget their religion, they must not forget their country. So anyway, leaders come and go, we all come and go. I am not a leader, please don't put me as a leader. I am one of the humblest workers in this country. I am coming from the humblest section of the society also. The leaders come.Dara raha na Sikander, (Neither Dara stayed nor Sikander,) If you want to translate you translate, Dara raha na sikander, is takhte zameen pe lakhon aye chale gaye. (Neither Dara stayed nor Sikander, millions came on this land and left.) But the country remains. We come and go, the posts come and go, but we remain.

So anyway, I hope you . . . I bored you, no doubt. I hope you'll understand me, and with the permission of Swāmījī I took the liberty of addressing you one time, thanking you. At any time, no only this time, Swāmījī has come next time, maybe one of my colleagues, an ambassador of some country might come, and we will have a grand party here. And also a drinking party. Nothing wrong about it. (laughter) No, I am making it very, very clear to my friends, because they differentiate. They say "Why, why can't . . ." (break) (end)