760912 - Conversation - Vrndavana

Conversations by Date, 1976

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this Conversation

760912R1-VRNDAVAN - September 12, 1976 - 28.13 Minutes

(bullock cart SKP)

Prabhupāda: I have seen, Gandhi wanted to organize a village program, and the village . . . (break) . . . in the field, that this program for constructing toilet in the village, they have spent so much. You know that? The first business was toilet. To restrict them to pass stool here and there, they must have. Now in constructing that toilet paraphernalia . . . (indistinct) . . . they . . . therefore it failed, village organization. Not for that purpose. There were many purpose. Because they had no engagement, so why they should remain in the village? There are so many attraction in the city, and they get money. The factory-wallas, they're inviting, "Come here. You shall get twenty rupees per day." Why shall he remain in the village? So if you can organize in the villages, they are interested in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and getting nice prasādam, then . . . one must have some attachment. In the city there are so many artificial attachments. So on what ground they'll remain in the village? Mind . . . always remember this. Unless you have got some attachment, there is no possibility. Gandhi's program was very nice, village organized so that they may not come to the city and help the capitalists. Remain satisfied in the village. But where is that satisfaction? That is the failure.

Lokanātha: If they add the holy name to their lives, they will . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. If they could understand that, "That will be helpful if you chant." Therefore Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's statement will never be false. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). If they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then gradually the dirty things accumulated within the heart will be cleansed. And if he comes to the understanding, clear idea, that "I want to eat something, and my necessities . . . so if I get my necessities, primary necessities of life, and satisfaction of mind, then why shall I go to the city?" That they can have very easily . . . if they follow the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, that "Your first necessity is food . . ." So produce food here. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). And you'll find here so much land is lying vacant, because they have gone to the city for twenty rupees daily to manufacture Goodyear tyre. And who will work here? Now I have seen in Delhi, the government is advertising, "Go back to the village."

Lokanātha: Yes, I read that . . .

Prabhupāda: You are . . . rascal, you are manufacturing wine and keeping them engaged whole day in the work. So after tired, being tired, he requires some wine. Then and why he'll go? And no spiritual education, no cleanliness. Simply inviting, "Go to the village," they will go?

Lokanātha: Just a propaganda.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) . . . no, they're thinking that, "So many people are coming to the cities, how we shall provide them?" That's a problem. After all, government has to supply them rations. Where is so much foodstuff? And if they are not supplied, then there will be resentment. This is a fact. What they are doing in the city, so many scooter (makes motor sound), going here and there. Actually no engagement. The girls are loitering in the street by dressing. It will become more and more problems, city life. So this is the solution, that they must go back to the village. But they are trained up to enjoy the facilities, so-called facilities, of the city. They are not going to village. But if we can introduce this hari-saṅkīrtana, and if they have little taste, that is success. It's a great program. And that taste will come—ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). If he simply becomes little sober that, "I want to eat, I have to sleep, I want some sense enjoyment and defense. So if I can get easily in the village, why shall I go three hundred miles away?" Just keep in mind the psychology. So that simple life will be possible if one is bhakta. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt (SB 11.2.42). Only by devotion; not by otherwise. Not by artificial means, by manufacturing toilet. Only bhakti. If they get little attachment for Kṛṣṇa, these questions will be solved automatically, and they will be happy. Undoubtedly. That is the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's first instruction: ceto-darpaṇa.

Lokanātha: I come from village, and I'm happy now, as I have taken to holy name and prasāda. So more, other villagers . . . half of these boys are from villages? (referring to other members of the bullock cart party)

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are villagers.

Lokanātha: They're chanting and they're so happy, and they're going back to village.

Prabhupāda: Very good life. Very good life, the village life—provided he has got proper engagement. Otherwise his mind will be disturbed, and he'll seek after wine, after women, after this, after that. Devil's workshop.

Ravi: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Because there's no sacrifice, because people aren't performing sacrifices now, is it more difficult to live off the land? It is more difficult to grow vegetables in Kali-yuga where there's no sacrifice?

Prabhupāda: What is that sacrifice?

Ravi: Chanting. Chanting the holy name. Doesn't that make it more difficult to live? The weather's . . . everything's so disturbed?

Prabhupāda: Whether you're not eating?

Lokanātha: He says there is no yajña, sacrifice. People are not performing. That is why they are into the trouble.

Prabhupāda: This is yajña. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ (SB 11.5.32). Su-medhasaḥ. Those who have got brain substance, they perform this saṅkīrtana-yajña. Those who have cow dung, they cannot. (laughter) One who has got brain substance. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ. And alpa-medhasa. The two words.

Svayambhūr: Viśvambhara is having fever, but he'll go to Koshi now. Viśvambhara is having fever, so he'll go . . .

Prabhupāda: Who will go?

Svayambhūr: Viśvambhara will go when he's better, maybe tomorrow.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. There is another word: tad bhavaty alpa-medhasaḥ. Tad bhavati . . . alpa-medha and su-medhasa. These two words we get from the śāstra. Those who are alpa-medhasa, they want to bring . . . just like in name, gītā-yajñas. There is no yajña. They are manufacturing some ideas. The other yajñas are not possible in this age. First of all, there is no yajñika-brāhmaṇa, there is no ingredients. So therefore this is the yajña. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyaiḥ. This is quotation from Bhāgavata. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti he su-medhasaḥ. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni . . . (CC Antya 20.12). This yajña. Simply chant, and engage others in chanting. That is yajña, first-class yajña, recommended.

Ravi: Prabhupāda? When we pass through the village, how will we keep them engaged . . .

Prabhupāda: That he'll guide you. You do not know. He is from village, he knows. Village or no village, wherever you chant, people will come. That is a fact. That is a fact. Either you chant in Calcutta Maidan or in the village, they will be . . . India is still alive in that sense. We have seen it. We have experience. Wherever we have chanted, people have come.

Lokanātha: When you went to some place in Gujarat . . . Sanand?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Lokanātha: It was reported that thousands of people will come. It was a small village . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. Village, if you go, ah, they will come like anything. Even in the city we have got experience. In Calcutta we did Maidan. Thirty thousand they were coming. They could not understand English, still they are coming—simply by kīrtana. This Haṁsadūta was performing kīrtana, and all the Bengali ladies coming from outside Calcutta by train, and they're praying, "Take this." . . . (indistinct) . . . still India is alive. And I was speaking in English mostly. Also in Delhi. Still ladies are sitting. (laughs) What they'll understand English? But that kīrtana was so attractive, they sat down only for kīrtana.

Lokanātha: Nobody outside ISKCON does this kīrtana.

Prabhupāda: What do they know? What they'll do? All rascals, fools. They never done.

Lokanātha: Even some religious organizations are there, but nobody . . .

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is religion. They do not know what is religion. They have no faith in God. This is their position. All bogus. I say it, challenging, do they know what is God? Ki balo, (Now say) Mr. Gupta? Do they know? People in general, do they know what is God?

Mr. Gupta: They don't know what is God. But they only respect God out of fear.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is also good. Ārto arthārthī (BG 7.16). Ārtaḥ. That is good. But still they do not know what is God. They have simply heard the name of God, there is God. That is good also, than the rascals who deny the existence of God. So in comparison to them, they are very good. At least they accept there is something as God: "God is good," "God is kind," "God is . . ." But what is God they have no idea. That's a fact. That they do not know. Either the nonbelievers or believers, both of them, they have no idea. This is the first time, perhaps, in the world we are introducing, "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa."

Lokanātha: You have said many times you could give complete address of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we give address.

Lokanātha: And also we know the telephone number.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Lokanātha: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: This is the first time. Otherwise, they do not know what is God. Now you are coming from Christian community. Did you have any idea of God?

Dhanañjaya: Just "God is great."

Prabhupāda: That's all . . . but what is that great? What is God, you do not know. We know. Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). Bās. "There is no more greater principle than Me." That is great. "How You are great?" Aham ādir hi devānām (BG 10.2): "I am the origin of all these demigods." Next "How You are great?" Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). This is their ignorance. They have simply heard God is great, but how He is great, that they do not know. Here is the . . . God is personally speaking, "Yes, I am great in this way." Ahaṁ sarvasya. Vedānta says, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). That is greatness. The original source of everything. So we are presenting God, "Here is God, here is God". Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ (SB 1.3.28). There are other incarnations, but kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. That's a fact.

So try to present the real fact. It will be effective. If there is real . . . reality, just like first-class pure ghee . . . if one tastes, he'll hanker after. Without any advertisement, by the taste of the ghee, it will go on. Is it not? If you put little pure ghee on the rice, it will be so tasteful that he'll want it again. But give the pure thing. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Try to give Him to the people. And how to take it? Hare Kṛṣṇa. He hasn't got to pay anything. God has given him the tongue. Induce him, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." And that is the beginning. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau (Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.234). It begins from the jihvā. So people will be surprised, "How God consciousness begins with jihvā?" That they do not know. Śāstra says, sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. Jihvā, the tongue, is the beginning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, God consciousness. People are surprised. They think the mind, speculative mind, is the beginning. No. Śāstra says tongue is the beginning. Muni, ṛṣi, muni. Muni means speculator. So they think speculative mind is the beginning of God consciousness. But śāstra says no, not the mind. Manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). If one is speculator, he will be on the material field. Asata. Asato mā sad gamaya. "Don't remain in the asat. Come to the reality." That reality begins from the tongue. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. Jihvā ādi, ādau. So give them chance to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and give them chance to taste prasādam. They'll be . . . that's all. Jihvādau. Utilize the tongue, primarily. And gradually everything will be . . .

ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ

śreyaḥ-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam

ānandāmbudhi-vardhanaṁ prati-padaṁ

sarvātma-snapanaṁ paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam

(CC Antya 20.12)

So chant as much possible and eat prasādam. No education required, no philosophy required. But follow the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction and become guru.

āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa

yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa

(CC Madhya 7.128)

If they have got little brain, then kṛṣṇa-upadeśa. Otherwise, Hare Kṛṣṇa upadeśa, that's all. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Very simple. The preacher does not require to be very highly educated. If he follows simply Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128), then he's successful. No, ustādi. (expertise.) That is not . . .

Lokanātha: No what?

Prabhupāda: Ustādi, ustad hota hai na? (Expertise, there are Ustāds right?)

Lokanātha: Flowery language.

Prabhupāda: Bhagavan pehla. Ye Ustadi hai. Maya ka juta kha raha hai aur Bhagvan bante hai . . . Itna sense nahi hai ki agar main Bhagvan hi hota toh ye juta khaane ke liye kaisa hai? Bhagvan kisika juta khata hai? Kahin se juta khaya kya? Sabko juta bana diya. Ye Bhagvan hai. (God first. This is expertise. They are beaten up by Maya's boots and become God . . . that doesn't even make much sense, that if I am God then why am I beaten up by Maya's boots. Is God beaten up by boots? Does Kṛṣṇa ever get beaten up by boots? He made everyone condemned like shoes. That is God.). That is God is great. Nobody can defeat Him. Nobody can go beyond Him. Asama-ūrdhva. Nobody is equal to Him. Asama, ūrdhva. Nobody is greater than Him, nobody is equal to Him. That is God. Nowadays there are so many Gods, everyone God. So what kind of God? If God has a competitor, then what is the God? God has no competitor. Asama-ūrdhva. Everyone is down. Asama. Not equal, not ūrdhva. Then down. Two things . . . three things are there: equal, level; upper and lower. So there is no upper and there is no equal. Then all lower. Then He's the supreme controller, īśvara parama. In the lower level there may be īśvara. But they are not parama. Subordinate.

Lokanātha: Āra saba bhṛtya. "Ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa Īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtya." (CC Adi 5.142).

Prabhupāda: Āra saba bhṛtya. God is one, and all others, they are subjects. Nityo nityānām. Why these two words are used? Nityānām. Everyone is nitya, but He's the supreme nitya. Cetanaś cetanānām. He's not dead body, dead matter. Cetana. Nitya . . . just as the Himalaya Parvata is standing forever. No. Cetana, living. So how He can be imperson? Himalaya Parvata may be very big, the sky may be big, but it is not cetana. Therefore this word is used, cetana, living. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). What is the difference? Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That one nitya is providing, maintaining all other nityas. That is God. God is great. That is the meaning. So anyway, make your effort sincerely. The basic principle is this: induce them to chant and take prasādam, you'll be successful. Not very much Ustādi. Mantra de denge aur humko 35 dollars do jhamela ye sab. (We will give you a mantra, give us 35 dollars—all this is trouble.)

Lokanātha: So we'll write to you, about the books.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Go to village to village. It is very noble attempt. And if you sincerely preach, Kṛṣṇa will . . . Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi taṁ yena mām upayānti te. There is no doubt.

Indian man: Lakhon Guru Hai Jagat Mein Par Ek Bhi Nahi Kaam Ka, (There are many gurus in this world but all are useless,) Sab Svaarthi Hain Daam Ke Danka Bajate Naam Ka, (All are selfish for money glorifying their own names,) Visvas Ka Guru Ek Hi Hai Baaki Nahin Kuch Dhyan De, (There is only one guru to be trusted, do not focus on any one else,) Jo Khaas Ki Pehchan De Wahi Sad-Guru Pehchan Le. (And that Sad-guru is one who tells about the Supreme, identifying him.)

Lokanātha: He joined us four days back. He's from Maharashtra. I'm taking him with me.

Prabhupāda: He understands the philosophy. Wherefrom it is quoted?

Indian boy: (Marathi)

Lokanātha: Saint Tukārāma.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Saint Tukārāma. He's a great saint. He is Māyāvādī or Vaiṣṇava?

Lokanātha: Tukārāma is Vaiṣṇava.

Prabhupāda: Oh! Tukārāma is Vaiṣṇava.

Lokanātha: But this is different. Tukārāma met Caitanya Mahāprabhu at Mylapur.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Tukārāma is a disciple of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Then it is in order. What is the verse . . .

Indian man: Lakhon Guru Hai Jagat Mein Par Ek Bhi Nahi Kaam Ka, (There are many gurus in this world but all are useless, Sab Svaarthi Hain Daam Ke Danka Bajate Naam Ka, (All are selfish for money glorifying their own names,) Visvas Ka Guru Ek Hi Hai Baaki Nahin Kuch Dhyan De, (There is only one guru to be trusted, do not focus on any one else,) Jo Khaas Ki Pehchan De Wahi Sad-Guru Pehchan Le. (There is only one guru to be trusted, do not focus on any one else,) Nahi Hone Denge Barbaad Jo Denge Saccha Itihas Woh Hamare Guru Vaishnava Srila Prabhupāda. (He will not perish, He will give real history and testimony, he is our guru Vaisnava Srila Prabhupāda.)

Lokanātha: It's a very nice quotation.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Ye hum logon ke liye koi muskil nahi hai, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu ne . . . (This is not all difficult for us, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said . . .) "By My order." That's all. That I was explaining to Mr. Gupta. If I say this bag of bead, you take it and give it to him, then where is my difficulty? There is no difficulty. This is called bead bag. You take it and give him—and you become guru. Call a spade a spade. And if you become Ustādi, "Kurukṣetra means this body, and this means this, and this means that," then you spoil. You spoil yourself also . . . (indistinct Bengali) (end)