740509 - Morning Walk - Bombay
Dr. Patel: No, no, but even for Vaiṣṇavas, sāṅkhya...
Prabhupāda: Sāṅkhya is required, but the cause of sāṅkhya must be understood, cause of all causes. Sāṅkhya philosophy is our philosophy, Vaiṣṇava, because it was enunciated by Kapiladeva. Later on, the atheist sāṅkhya, they wiped out God. [break] Na brahmā na rudra ca. These are the Vedic mantras. [break] Koṭi-brahmāṇḍa-vigraha. Koṭi-brahmāṇḍa-vigraha. Innumerable universes are there in the body of Kṛṣṇa. [break]
Dr. Patel: Now they are not... The government is telling lies, that some people have come to work, and they have... [break]
Prabhupāda: ...bindu sama, suta mitā ramaṇī samāje, sohe viṣere mana, tahe samarpala, ābrahma yuga hobo kono kāj. (?) This is Vidyāpati's song, that "We are seeking water in the desert." Taṭala saikata. Saikata, means the sandy beach and very hot. So then water is required. But we get little water. What is that? Suta mitā ramaṇī samāje. In the society, friendship and love, we are seeking that happiness, and it is exactly like seeking water in the desert. Although there is little happiness, but what is the comparison? Vāri bindu sama. I want water, but it is a drop of water. Vāri bindu. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So when there is requisition of water like seas and ocean, what this one drop will do? He admits there is little happiness, but this happiness is nothing that we want in comparison. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Taṭala saikata, vāri bindu sama, suta mitā ramaṇī samāje, tahe viṣere mana, tahe samarpala, havana yughamala na kāj. Mādhava āmāra pari nama nirasa (?): "Therefore, my Lord Kṛṣṇa, I see my future is hopeless, and therefore I surrender unto You. There is no other way." Mādhava āmāra pari nama nirasa, tuhu jagad taraṇa, dīna dayāla, ataeva tohari varosa (?), that "I have no other hope. Simply hope you are." Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break] ...is better, the breathing air. That side is...
Indian Man (1): Now the wind is changing, this side.
Prabhupāda: This side is pūrva.
Indian Man (1): No, this is east. This is north.
Prabhupāda: Oh, north. So here, this is pūrva...
Indian Man (1): The rains will come from southwest.
Prabhupāda: Southwest, oh, yes.
Dr. Patel: It has not changed as yet. Still... [break]
Prabhupāda: ...even the sun, what to speak of other things, even the sun, the central point of this universe. Yasyājñayā bhramati saṁbhṛta-kāla-cakraḥ. It is also rotating in the orbit by order of Govinda. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break] ...nama utila pi-asa nīre (?). Now, if you live on the ocean and if you are thirsty, you cannot drink a drop. You will have to die. Nīra kari vasa (?). Although the same water we are drinking. Is it not, Dr.?
Dr. Patel: Yes. Water, water everywhere, not a drop to drink.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The same water drinking, but when it is purified by the arrangement of Kṛṣṇa... You cannot drink. And still, you are scientist. (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: One boy from engineers' school of technology here in Bombay has found out a method of...
Prabhupāda: That is another nonsense. He will turn one cup of seawater into sweet water and it will cost some hundreds of rupees.
Dr. Patel: That is right, but these fellows, they have found some natural way.
Prabhupāda: Well.
Dr. Patel: He is passing it through this banana leaf, some very rational method.
Prabhupāda: Banana leaf. So that also required by God's mercy.
Dr. Patel: Nobody says that he does himself. If he says, he's a fool. But what I mean to say is from that way... And the government of Ceylon has (indistinct) the world over, this method. There was a big row about it. This boy approached the Bombay Municipal Corporation (indistinct) they say... [break]
Prabhupāda: ...scientist.
Dr. Patel: Scientist, that you say. Einstein never claimed that he is... Einstein was a great bhakta. Einstein is the grandfather...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: ...of the modern science. He never claimed that anything can be done by man. Einstein has always said it is God who does it. Still you say that "Scientists are atheists. Fight them"?
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Dr. Patel: I don't think that is right statement.
Prabhupāda: No, no, there are many scientists like..., but generally they think in their way. Just like modern scientists, they are trying to prove: from chemicals, life.
Indian Man (2): Jagadish Candra Bose, he was a great scientist. (Hindi) He can answer how many wise (?) He can answer.
Dr. Patel: There is no question of... He cannot make even a grain of sand. Scientists, if they say that they are making, that is wrong. They are finding out what is already admitted.
Prabhupāda: No. Some of them say, "Now there is no need of God. Science is everything." Even Dr. Radhakrishnan was saying in a meeting.
Dr. Patel: No, what is science?
Prabhupāda: Science means...
Dr. Patel: Science means knowledge. And knowledge is there. Knowledge means God.
Prabhupāda: Practical...
Dr. Patel: But we are trying to honor the knowledge which we have not now known...
Prabhupāda: That knowledge is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ BG 7.19 . When one understands, "Oh, here is the original source of everything," vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ BG 7.19 , that is greatest scientist. And how this knowledge comes? Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante BG 7.19 . They are struggling for the ultimate knowledge. So struggling many, many births after births, when, by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, he comes to the real knowledge, then he admits, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ BG 7.19 .
Indian Man (3): (Hindi conversation) [break]
Prabhupāda: ...and police is controlling by beating them. Now they will go to the office, and again they will come in that way. And coming home for two cāpāṭis. You see? That's all.
Dr. Patel: They reach their office at two o'clock.
Prabhupāda: Just see. And again... (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: Modern civilization is the civilization of the indriyas. We want a civilization...
Prabhupāda: No, no, indriyas... Material civilization means indriyas, but it should be so organized. That is the Vedic principles, that you enjoy your indriyas in a systematic way so that you may not fall again, another difficulty. That is the Vedic way.
Dr. Patel: The whole background of that modern civilization is indriyas.
Prabhupāda: Yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ BG 3.9 . That civilization is yajñārthe karma. You work, but for yajña. Yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ. (Hindi) ...modern science... (Hindi) ...This is mistake.
Indian Man (4): This is not the ultimate solution.
Prabhupāda: No, that is not.
Dr. Patel: Ultimate solution, nobody knows.
Prabhupāda:
na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ
durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ
SB 7.5.31
They are captivated by the external energy. They think by material advancement they will make solution of all problems. That is not possible.
andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās
te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ
He does not know that he is bound up, hands and legs, by the laws of nature, and he is trying to solve it by his own method of material civilization. That is the mistake. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā BG 3.27 . They are all vimūḍhas, mūḍhas, duṣkṛtina, mūḍhas. (Hindi) [break] He asked me, "What is the conception of hell?" I said, "It is your London. By artificial way you have kept it as heaven. But otherwise, it is hell." So this was published.
Dr. Patel: Bombay also is hell. Bombay, nobody inhabited this island till the Britishers came, and they created this spot. The importance of Bombay backward... Otherwise so far hell is concerned they are both place. Best is Bangalore in India. Best.
Prabhupāda: [break] Doctor can manage securing medicine, distributing. That is another thing.
Indian Devotee (5): Actually, from his talk I could understand that he actually doesn't want to do much. He said he will not be able to come and examine the patients even.
Prabhupāda: Then?
Indian Devotee (5): He says, "You try to find some other doctor." He told me, "You find out names and addresses of the local doctors, and we'll pick one of them."
Prabhupāda: No, no, we cannot divert our attention. It is not possible. Say, "No." You can say that "We consulted Prabhupāda. He said, 'At the present moment, unless our building is there, we cannot accept any other extra business.' " Tell him like that. [break]
Yaśomatīnandana: I suggested. [break]
Prabhupāda: For nothing. No, no, that is not possible. These are for the karmīs, bodily concept of life. If government has got so many hospitals, what is the use of opening a teeny hospital by us? Vivekananda policy—to collect money by school and hospital. So you can tell him that "At the present moment, we are concerned about the sanction of the building and temple. So when the building is there, then we can consider, not at the present moment. We require money. We collect for this purpose. We cannot divert attention for medicine and other things."
Indian Devotee (5): Actually I could gather that he just talked because he also said that we should train up some devotees to do bandage and other things like that.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, no, this is not.
Bhāgavata: We do all the work, and he gets advertised as a great charitable doctor.
Prabhupāda: That's it.
Bhāgavata: That he has opened the clinic.
Prabhupāda: Daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. We are not all these false things. Doctor Ghosh is also after daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. [break] We will collect medicine. Our... We shall pay for the expenditure. Our men will be engaged for bandaging. (laughs) Nonsense.
Bhāgavata: And the preaching stops.
Prabhupāda: Ah. They cannot understand what is the meaning of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are such dull headed men. They have no brain to understand. They are coming down again. Just like the dog's tail. Know, dog's tail. You may, however grease it... (laughs) They are hearing about this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The aim is the body, the dog's tail. They are hearing daily about Kṛṣṇa na..., but they cannot understand. It is very difficult. These karmīs... Now they say... Because we are reading this Bhāgavatam, now gradually they dispersed. Gradually they dispersed. They are not interested. Hare Kṛṣṇa. And if you talk politics and all nonsense, oh, they will gather.
yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke
sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ
yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij
janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ
SB 10.84.13
The go-khara class. You can say plainly that "For the present, we are not interested. We have got many more important business than this hospitalization."
Bhāgavata: [break] ...take Caraṇāravindam from the hospital. So before we left, we had kīrtana. And immediately all the patients became happier.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Bhāgavata: The whole attitude was very dull and unhappy and morose, that "Oh, we are in the hospital. My body, my body..." As soon as we had the kīrtana, they all got out of the bed and they came and stood around and they watched and some were clapping and chanting.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Immediately life. Oh, just try to understand how much great responsibility you have got.
Bhāgavata: They all appreciated that we made this kīrtana.
Prabhupāda: Even the Russians appreciated. (aside:) Don't push it in my mouth.
Satsvarūpa (?): Oh, I'm sorry.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. [break] "...bright-faced." [break] They are surprised to see the American boys. "Are you Americans?" Do they not question? Yes. Completely changed. They cannot recognize. Is it not?
Devotee: Yes. (Śrīla Prabhupāda laughs)
Bhāgavata: They are only used to seeing the hippies.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhāgavata: With beard and the hair, dirty.
Girirāja: My parents telephoned last week, and at first they couldn't recognize my voice. They couldn't believe that it was me.
Prabhupāda: Then?
Girirāja: Kṛṣṇa consciousness has changed the...
Prabhupāda: So your father said that "I could not..."
Girirāja: Yes. He said, "Are you sure it's you?"
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Just like a lawyer. (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break] Mother is also very nice. Unless father and mother is nice... I told your mother also. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break] ...she become beautiful, now there is lusty desire.
Girirāja: (reading) "She frankly proposed to Kṛṣṇa, 'My dear hero, I cannot leave you...' "
Prabhupāda: She was a prostitute. She was a prostitute but engaged in Kaṁsa's service. In India the prostitutes are engaged as maidservants in respectable houses still. During daytime they serve in some house, and at night they become prostitute. There are many prostitutes. One prostitute, when we were boys, she was coming to serve my mother as a lady barber. There is lady barber, for serving the ladies. And at night she was standing as prostitute. [break] ...a good relation with the neighborhood. There was no enviousness. "She is doing her own business. That's all."
Bhāgavata: So then it is looked on as a necessity in the society.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Prostitute is necessity. Otherwise these rascals, they will pollute all the woman. Therefore, for the rascals there must be some provision. Just like opening wine shop. It is not meant for everyone. But there are drunkards. Unless they get drinking, they will create some disturbance.
Bhāgavata: So just like in Dvārakā there was prostitutes, and they were all devotees of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There are many devotees, prostitutes.
Bhāgavata: So that was their service, not their service, but that was their work.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhāgavata: But, still they were devotees of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is their profession, livelihood, but they are devotees. In Calcutta, there is a big temple. It is called Kāca-Kāminī's temple. Kāca-Kāminī means she was a prostitute, but she was kept by a very big businessman who was dealing in glass, mirrors and all... So he has made a temple for her with glass and mirrors. Therefore it is called kāca. Kāca means glass. Kāca-Kāminī. [break] ...have a dispensary. Dr. Ojha. He thinks in this way people can be saved. That is also necessary, but not as necessary as this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Girirāja: Chapter Forty-two. The Killing of the Elephant Kuvala... [break]
Prabhupāda: We are speaking of Kṛṣṇa. No Indians are interested. Just see. (Hindi) Dr. Patel and his company. (Hindi) [break] Hear about the expedition to moon but not about Kṛṣṇa. What is that?
Devotee: It came off.
Prabhupāda: No, it is all right.
Devotee: There's another one underneath. (end)