710628 - Conversation - San Francisco

Conversations by Date, 1971

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this Conversation

710628DA-SAN_FRANCISCO - June 28, 1971 - 38:52 Minutes

(devotees offering obeisances) (japa)

Prabhupāda: . . . girls? Jayānanda, how are you? So you are married now? Eh? So where is your marriage presentation?

Jayānanda: Pardon?

Prabhupāda: When you are not yet married, you gave me five thousand dollars. Now you are married, you must give me now ten thousand. Double.

Come on. Come on. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Anyone who has got . . . (indistinct) . . . where is your brother?

Makhanlāl: I think he is in London.

Prabhupāda: What he is doing now?

Makhanlāl: Building the Ratha-yātrā carts.

Prabhupāda: Ohh.

Makhanlāl: For the festival.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, you are Nara-nārāyaṇa's brother. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Come on. Nara-nārāyaṇa is very nice boy. Everything is all right? Where is your center? Come on.

Devotee (1): Tucson.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Devotee (2): Tucson, Arizona.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (more devotees enter) Come on. How is Govinda dāsī?

Devotee (3): She is improving.

Prabhupāda: Anyone shall . . . (indistinct)

Come on. Śyāmasundara inaugurated this Ratha-yātrā here. You know? I advised him to perform Ratha-yātrā on a motorcar, and that was the first Ratha-yātrā. Then gradually it came to car, now it is three. It is very nice. We are improving. More improve, more and more. Your prasādam this year, I think it is not sufficiently distributed. Why?

Makhanlāl: Not sufficient amount, you mean?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Makhanlāl: Not sufficient menu?

Prabhupāda: Yes. In previous year . . . anyone? Everyone you have got? All right. So this is the difference. I have been in Moscow. So there is . . . I couldn't find this. I could not eat fruit. Now your country, Kṛṣṇa has given so nice, you see, so nice flowers, and so nice Vaiṣṇavas. And that country is very proud of advancing, but there is no fruit, there is no flower, there is no Vaiṣṇava and there is no freedom. And this is the . . . they are proud. You see? "We are advanced." This is the . . .

There is a story, one worshiper of Durgā . . . in Bengal, they worship Durgā-mātā. So it is a story, the Durgā-mātā, the Goddess Durgā, is asking the devotee, "My dear boy, you are happy?" "Yes, mother, I am very happy. Simply two things wanting." "What is this?" "I have no food, I have no clothing." Just see.

This is story, just try to understand that, "I am happy, but two things wanting: no food, no clothing." You see? But is that happiness—no food, no clothing? Similarly, this Russian country, they are very much proud of advancement, but no food sufficient and no freedom. No food and no freedom, that's all. This is the sum and substance.

So in your country also that position may come. Now in America you are happy. Because the nature is changing. Jagat. Jagat means which is changing. So before any further changes come, you spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over your country. You see? Utilize these fruits and flowers for Kṛṣṇa and be happy. Don't slip down. You see? That is my request. Whatever I could do, I have done. Now it is up to you to spread this movement all over the world. Don't go away. You see? There is some tendency, somebody. Therefore, I ask you, no. You see?

This is all nonsense. This is māyā's peeping, "Why you are working so hard for a sentiment, chanting and dancing? Come on, take to service and be happy with your wife and children." This is māyā. This is māyā. I did not ask my students to marry to become a lost child. I wanted to give them some facility, because you cannot do without wife. But now I am seeing that some of them are slipping away. This is not to be done. No.

Every one of us as good as sannyāsī, because we have sacrificed everything for Kṛṣṇa. Sannyāsī does not mean simply having no wife and children, he's a sannyāsī. No. Nothing to possess except Kṛṣṇa. That is sannyāsī. One should know that "I will have simply Kṛṣṇa, nothing more." Then he is sannyāsī. This mentality, that "I have nothing to serve; I have nobody to serve except Kṛṣṇa." But if you serve Kṛṣṇa, you will serve everyone.

Just like I was teaching this Indian gentleman. The same process: If you pour water on the root of the tree, automatically the branches, the leaves and the flowers are all served. If you put the foodstuff here, not here, not here, then automatically this is served. Although the foodstuff is here, automatically this is served, this is served, this is served, this is . . . everybody served. This is practical. If you serve Kṛṣṇa, then all service will be included. They are serving humanitarian and so on.

Suppose I, I am Indian, I came to your country. Why I came to your country in this old age? That is service. To give Kṛṣṇa conscious, that's the best service. Without any distinction of caste, creed, country, color. No. Everyone should have Kṛṣṇa. This is the best service. Go everywhere, every part of the world, and give Kṛṣṇa. That is the best service you can do.

And actually, they are now feeling, because they are Indians. Even in India, where there are so many devotees of Kṛṣṇa, but when they saw "These American devotees are so nice," thirty thousand people were coming daily. And what was our magic? This man was asking me, "Swāmījī, what magic you have got?" And "I have got this magic: that I don't tell lie. I don't make 'This rascal is God.' God is Kṛṣṇa. That is my magic. I don't bluff people. Here is God. See God, be with God, serve God. That's my business."

Why God should be unseen? You see Kṛṣṇa. If Kṛṣṇa says . . . Kṛṣṇa says that, "I am taste of the water," while you are drinking water, tasting, "Oh, here is Kṛṣṇa." As soon as you see sunshine, moonshine, "Oh, here is Kṛṣṇa." As soon as there is a nice flavor, "Oh, here is Kṛṣṇa." Puṇyo gandhaḥ pṛthivyāṁ ca tejaś cāsmi vibhāvasau (BG 7.9). These are all described in the Bhagavad-gītā, Seventh Chapter. Where is Bhagavad-gītā? Just turn to Seventh Chapter. Somebody come up to this.

So it is very important movement. You take it very seriously and spread it. Seventh Chapter. Read it.

Viṣṇujana: "O son of Kuntī (Arjuna), I am the taste of water, the light of the sun and the moon, the syllable oṁ in the Vedic mantras. I am the sound in ether."

Prabhupāda: Now, who is not drinking water? The taste of water is Kṛṣṇa, so who has not seen Kṛṣṇa? They say: "Can you show me God?" If you don't see God, then who will show you? Here is God, you are drinking water. Here is God, sunshine. Those who cannot see Kṛṣṇa is God . . . because to see Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality God, it requires many, many thousands of years' tapasya to understand Kṛṣṇa.

Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). After many, many births, one can understand Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is not so easy. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). Out of many thousands of men, one may be interested how to make this life perfect. And those who actually attain perfection, out of many thousands of them, one can understand Kṛṣṇa.

So to understand Kṛṣṇa is not easy job, easy job. So one who has understood, "Here is Kṛṣṇa with Rādhārāṇī; let me serve," that position is very exalted position. That is not ordinary position. But one who is unfortunate not to come to that position to understand Kṛṣṇa, for them Kṛṣṇa is giving the prescription you see here. You drink water, the taste, now just think, "Here is Kṛṣṇa." In this way, if you think of Kṛṣṇa in your daily activities, then one day you will be able to understand what is Kṛṣṇa.

Actually, Kṛṣṇa is everything, because whatever . . . this table is also Kṛṣṇa, because it is a manifestation of Kṛṣṇa's energy. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ buddhir mano eva ca (BG 7.4). What is the ingredient of this table? Earth, water, air, fire. Kṛṣṇa says, "That is My manifestation of My energy." Just like if the sun god says, "I am everything of this matter," it is a fact, because through the sunshine everything is coming out.

As soon as there is no sunshine, no more trees, no more foliage. Why? It is due to sunshine all these trees are existing. So if I say everything is sunshine, what is the wrong there? Because it is the sun's energy which is maintaining this material world. Similarly, it is Kṛṣṇa's energy that is manifesting everything. So if I say: "This is Kṛṣṇa," this is a fact.

But Kṛṣṇa says: "Although everything is resting in Me, still I am not there." Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni nāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ (BG 9.4). The Māyāvādī philosopher says that "If Kṛṣṇa is here, then why shall I worship Kṛṣṇa in the temple?" That is his rascaldom. If Kṛṣṇa is everywhere, why He is not in the temple? But they will be minus, make minus this, "Kṛṣṇa is not in the temple. Kṛṣṇa is only somewhere else, that's all." That is the . . . Kṛṣṇa says that, "I am in the temple, not anywhere else, although everything I am."

So these things the foolish rascal people do not understand. Try to make them understand and go on preaching. The sannyāsīs are meant for preaching, and the GBCs are meant for managing. In this way do it. Now you give me relief—I go on writing books, that's all.

So Viṣṇujana Mahārāja, your preaching is going on nice?

Viṣṇujana: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Sannyāsī should be always preaching. Parivrājakācārya. Four stages of sannyāsa: kuṭīcaka, bahūdaka, parivrājaka and paramahaṁsa. In the beginning . . . because according to Vedic civilization everyone has to take sannyāsa at a certain age. So as a matter of routine if he takes sannyāsa . . . just like this old man, I was asking that, "Now you have children grown up, why don't you take sannyāsa?" But he is hesitating. Nobody likes, because sannyāsa life is difficult.

So first there is kuṭīcaka, means he gives up the connection of the family life, takes sannyāsa officially. But he is not accustomed to maintain himself independently; therefore, he goes out of the village and makes a cottage and lives there. And the foodstuff, the home supply . . . (indistinct) . . . that is called kuṭīca. Kuṭī means cottage. Then when he is little practiced, then he says family members that "Don't bring foodstuffs. I shall go to every village man and ask something for my food. I shall depend on them, not on you." That is called bahūdaka. Bahū means many. Not accepting food from one place but from many.

Then when he is prac . . . because first problem is problem; when he is practiced, "Now Kṛṣṇa is giving us food, so why shall I remain in one place? Let me preach." That is called parivrājakācārya, when he is preaching. Parivrājaka. Parivrājaka means wandering all over. Then when he is experienced, when his preaching is done, he can sit down in one place. At that time, he can chant simply Hare Kṛṣṇa like Haridāsa Ṭhākura. And if he imitates from the very beginning, he will be spoiled, that's all. Because in the beginning, if I take Hare Kṛṣṇa, then it is . . . (indistinct) . . . (laughter) Don't do this. Always be busy—first stage, last stage.

When one is paramahaṁsa, just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura, three hundred thousand times, no eating unless he finishes his chanting. No eating, no sleeping. That is another thing. "I shall eat so much, I shall sleep so much, and I shall do nothing, simply chanting." No. That is not recommended by my Guru Mahārāja. He says that, "You are cheating people." Tumi kisera vaiṣṇava? There is a song written by Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī: "What kind of Vaiṣṇava you are?" Pratiṣṭhāra tare, nirjanera ghare: "Your chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa in a secluded place," kevala kaitava, "it is simply cheating."

What do you know what you are chanting? First of all prepare yourself to come to the stage of perfect chanting. This is sevā. Always be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service: how to decorate the temple, how to invite people, giving the feast, write books, distribute books and knowledge. In this way don't sit idly. Always be engaged. Always. Just like our Karandhara, he has taken so much responsibility. He is doing. I am very pleased. He is prepared to do the masonry work and building work and distribution of book, accounting.

In this way, we shall be always busy. Find out some work. "I have no work now . . ." Of course, the sixteen rounds must be chanted, compulsory. Rest time, simply find out where is Kṛṣṇa's work. Why sixteen rounds? It now takes only two hours; you have got twenty-four hours. What you will do twenty-four hours? You cannot sleep more than six hours, seven hours, that's all. So two hours chanting and seven hours sleeping. Sleeping is a very important thing in your country, but reduce it. You see? As much as you reduce sleeping and eating, you will become advanced.

That is the Gosvāmīs, nidrāhāra-vihāra-vijitau (Śrī Ṣaḍ Gosvāmy Aṣṭaka), conquered over sleeping, eating and mating. Because these three . . . four things āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithun . . . these are material life. The spiritual life means reduction of these things. When it is nil—no more sleeping, no more eating—that is spiritual . . . perfection of spiritual life. So we cannot make it nil so long this body is there, but our policy should be like that. Policy should be like that.

We shall not eat more, we shall not sleep more, we shall not mate more. Exc . . . those who are gṛhasthas, they can have sex life only for producing children, that's all. No more. And those who are sannyāsī, brahmacārī, they have no sex life, there is no question of sex life. Sex life is prohibited. But it is a concession for them who cannot live without sex life. That is married life.

Otherwise, sex life is not very important thing. Just like there are brahmacārīs, sannyāsīs, they have no sex life. Therefore this sannyāsa, to go out of home by force, that means they avoid sex life, sannyāsa. You see? I think those who have got children, they should take sannyāsa now and preach. That is my idea. Not . . . (indistinct) . . . idea. Because all the great sages, they waited if they are married.

Just like Kapila Muni . . . Kardama, Kardama Muni. Kardama Muni, he was a great yogī. So he was thinking of marrying, so Kṛṣṇa sent him good wife, Devahūti, a king's daughter. So he thought, "I was thinking of marrying, so Kṛṣṇa has sent. All right, let me marry." But he made a condition to her father that "I can accept your daughter as my wife so long she has no children. As soon as she has children, I shall go away." So the father agreed, "Whatever you like, you can do. I'm just placing my wife in your custody." So the sannyāsī . . . when there is a child of the wife, I think one can accept sannyāsa. Yes.

But preaching is our most important business. People are suffering for want of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so as representative of Kṛṣṇa, it is our duty to enlighten them, and we should accept all kinds of . . . but there is no difficulty. Where is the difficulty? I think we are living better than anyone in the world. (laughter) Where is the difficulty? Simply we have to be very sincere devotee of Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Everything Kṛṣṇa will supply. Everything.

So in that position, go on preaching. Don't be, I mean to say, tottering. You have taken a great responsibility; go on executing it. Don't fight amongst yourselves for petty things. Go on, advance. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

So it is . . . now we are going to have a great ceremony in India, Māyāpur. They have got . . . I have purchased one land. I took contribution 25,000 from Birla. I wanted 100,000; he gave me 25,000. That's all right. So with that money I purchased one land. So it is just to be developed, the foundation stone, cornerstone laying down. In India we require another . . . altogether at least one hundred men, Americans. So contribute some men from each and every center. We have got fifty centers . . . how many centers now?

Viṣṇujana: Seventy, I heard.

Karandhara: Almost sixty. Fifty-eight.

Prabhupāda: So give one man from each center. It doesn't require that he is very advanced. Advancement will be done by training, by practical application in life. If you send from each center one man to India . . . if you can send more, that's all right. But at least one man. In India we have got many things to do.

Because the business in India is important in this respect, that partly due to their subjugation by foreigners, their original culture has been killed. Just like in India, they did not know drinking tea, drinking wine, meat-eating, illicit sex. They did not know. Even fifty, a hundred years before, they did not know. These Britishers, in order to control them, very silently introduced all these things.

I know in our childhood, this drinking of tea was unknown to any family. You see? Meat-eating, there was no question. Just like in my life, I do not know what is meat-eating, do not know womanizing or illicit sex life, because they are trained in that way. So due to foreign domination, they were killed and after Independence—these rascal leaders, they are killing it, "What is the wrong in meat-eating? What is the wrong in drinking?" They are canvassing, "Eat chickens, eat eggs." This is going on.

So at the present moment there is great propaganda from the side of the government and others to kill India's original culture. So when Americans go there and preach and they see, "Oh, so nice Vaiṣṇava, so nice devotee and so pure," they will become attracted, "Oh," because that is their original culture. At heart they want to do that, but by artificial means they are being forced to accept something else. So when they see these foreigners and Americans so . . .

And government is not very favor of my movement there, because it is natural, when the Americans they exhibit a nice, pure Vaiṣṇava, they come attracted. Just like in Calcutta and Bombay, what was there? The same Deity was and saṅkīrtana was there, and I was speaking say for a half an hour. But why these forty thousand, thirty thousand people were coming? They were coming to see, "Oh, how Americans have taken to this life." That is their surprise. They are giving credit only for that purpose. This man also.

So there is good chance of preaching in India in this respect. We want some men to preach there. It will be great work. So I think in each center, from each center you can contribute one man, and some of you leaders may go. There are already, organize. People are very much attracted. They are wanting . . . giving us money, they want to give us place, there is no scarcity of food, there is no question.

But this Immigration Department, they will harass. But we have to manage somehow or other. We shall have to keep always at least one hundred men in India. So how to do it, that we will consider and do it. That's all. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Now chalk out your plan how to preach nicely all over the world.

So Viṣṇujana Maharaja, how many centers?

Viṣṇujana: Just two.

Prabhupāda: Two, that's all right. You have to do another eight. (laughter) Yes. That's nice. Go on. (break)

Devotee (1): So do you want to give gṛhastha authorization to take sannyāsa as soon as possible?

Prabhupāda: That I tell you; not immediately. But our main business is preaching. Either do it as a gṛhastha or as sannyāsī, it does not matter. This is only formality. The real work is preaching. Just like Rāmānanda Rāya was a gṛhastha and Lord Caitanya was a sannyāsī, but He was taking lesson from Rāmānanda Rāya. This is Caitanya-līlā. He is a sannyāsī, and He is God Himself, He is taking lesson from a grhastha who is His disciple. So the real thing is preaching must go on sincerely. This gṛhastha, vānaprastha, these are material regulative principles. Real life is Kṛṣṇa's service. That we have to do. That's all.

So whatever position is suitable for you, you accept. You remain as a gṛhastha, remain as sannyāsī, remain as brahmacārī, as it becomes suitable for you, but preach. That is the main business. If you lacking in preaching and become a sannyāsī, what is the use of sannyāsa? Better . . . a gṛhastha is better. Just like I asked Gaurasundara to go to Hawaii. He was just a boy, but he did. Now there is center, nice.

So I'm very glad. So you are also doing like that. It doesn't matter whether gṛhastha. Karandhara is gṛhastha. But we have to serve Kṛṣṇa very nicely. That is our main criterion. So we have to see in what position I can serve better Kṛṣṇa. That is our policy. Otherwise, either gṛhastha or sannyāsī, there's no difference.

Caitanya Mahāprabhu says:

kibā vipra, kibā śūdra, nyāsī kene naya

yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā, sei 'guru' haya

(CC Madhya 8.128)

Preaching work is for the guru. So Kṛṣṇa . . . Caitanya Mahāprabhu says it doesn't matter whether he is a gṛhastha or vānaprastha or a brahmin or śūdra. It doesn't matter. If he knows what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness and preaches, then he is guru. That's all. So we have to become like that. It doesn't matter what we are, but whether I am preaching nicely, that is required. But still there is some regulative principles like, "Sannyāsī and brahmacārī will be like this," "Gṛhastha will be like this." That is the external. But main business is preaching.

So you have got good opportunity, you have got good name, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement; it is being appreciated. So live very cautiously and preach very cautiously and seriously, then in this one life we will become successful, go back to home, back to Godhead. One life. You haven't got to wait for another life. If this life we work sincerely, then our business is finished. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9).

That is assured by Kṛṣṇa. "After giving up this body, he doesn't come to this material world." Then where does he go? Mām eti, "He comes to Me." This is said by Kṛṣṇa. Why shall we disbelieve? So serve this life very sincerely and go back to Kṛṣṇa immediately. That is intelligence. Why should you wait for another life? We do not know what life we can get. May not be possible.

So we should be very responsible to this life in serving Kṛṣṇa. Make yourself successful. Don't waste a single moment. Every moment should be utilized to serve Kṛṣṇa. Always think, "How I can serve Kṛṣṇa?" The direction is already there. The work is sufficient. If you don't want to do, that is a different thing. There is sufficient work to do.

If you cannot do anything, you can go and meet any man and request him, "Please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." What is the difficulty? You can request. That your endeavor to request him is your service. He may not chant. But if you request him, "Please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa . . ." If you cannot do anything, if you meet anyone in the street and say "Please . . ." (break) (end)