770626 - Conversation A - Vrndavana

Conversations by Date, 1977

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

770626R1-VRNDAVAN - June 26, 1977 - 46:33 Minutes

(Conversation with Surendra Kumar and O.B.L. Kapoor)

Surendra Kumar: . . . that you must make an application of forty to fifty people who Prabhupāda wants that they should be given permanent nationality.

Prabhupāda: So keeping . . .

Surendra Kumar: Also that we will consider.

Prabhupāda: . . . Surendrajī here, you make this application draft.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Surendra Kumar: And I and Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, we can meet at any time, any number of times.

Prabhupāda: So you go with him.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I think in about two weeks we will go.

Surendra Kumar: Again, after he has been to Bombay, etcetera, we will meet him again. And let us put up this . . .

Prabhupāda: So the application prepare in consultation, taking help and guidance. He is real devotee.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we'll do it.

Prabhupāda: Don't do alone. Don't do alone.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no, no.

Surendra Kumar: I told him, first thing, that I am here because I am a Life Member and I am a devotee of Prabhupāda. That's why I'm here.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Surendra Kumarjī praises your efforts very much.

Surendra Kumar: No, there is no question of my praising. One knows about in fact, his wonders may be . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is Prabhupāda's Īśopaniṣad in Arabic. The Middle East countries are buying it.

Surendra Kumar: These people from Tehran . . . and my friend is a Muslim. He is very . . . he is just like my sister and my wife's very intimate friend. She said . . . she was there . . .

Prabhupāda: We have no such question, "Hindu," "Muslim . . ."

Surendra Kumar: She said: "I'm going to become a devotee. I'm going to become a Life Member."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, very good. She's from Delhi?

Surendra Kumar: No, from Aligarh. So when yesterday my wife said that, "I am going to see Prabhupāda," she said, "I am coming with you." And most welcome

Mrs. Kumar: . . . (indistinct Hindi)

Surendra Kumar: She was there when you were there at Aligarh, in my house.

Prabhupāda: I have many Muslim disciples.

Surendra Kumar: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: Rāmajana. Here he became . . . what is that? Mr. Rāma-rañjana. Rāma-rañjana.

Surendra Kumar: Rāma-rañjana, his name has been changed . . . (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Our Attar Mia has become Atreya Ṛṣi.

Surendra Kumar: Attar Mia has become Atreya Ṛṣi.

Mrs. Kumar: So she is my friend.

Surendra Kumar: She is inseparable to my wife, very great friend. And religion has never bothered us. She has been to . . . (indistinct) . . . yes. "After all, you are a good Muslim."

Prabhupāda: You understand English?

Mrs. Kumar: Yes.

Surendra Kumar: Yes, yes, she is a graduate.

Prabhupāda: Oh. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam says, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). There are two kinds of religion. One is parā, and one is aparā.

Surendra Kumar: Parā and aparā.

Prabhupāda: Parā means real religion. Yes. Or spiritual. And aparā means material. Generally people are engaged in aparā religion. They go to temple, they go to church . . .

Surendra Kumar: And to mosques.

Prabhupāda: . . . and mosques for some material benefit. Just like these Christians, "O God, give us our daily bread." We also go to temple. So that is aparā. And parā means when there will be no demand.

Surendra Kumar: No demand from God.

Prabhupāda: Simply to love Him. Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. That is para. Our this line is little difficult, because we are teaching paro dharma.

Surendra Kumar: I have been saying that. That's what I was telling her all the time, we were driving up.

Prabhupāda: And the human form of life, this is the only business. This is the only business. But they do not know. They are after . . . they go to dharma for some material benefit. Dharmasya apavargasya (SB 1.2.9).

Surendra Kumar: My sister says that, "Unless and until God so wishes . . ."

Mrs. Kumar: How to leave this world?

Surendra Kumar: ". . . how to leave this material world?"

Prabhupāda: She'll leave in material . . . Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo (BG 18.66): "I shall deliver you." God gives you that. God is protecting actually. And without God's protection, you cannot live. But still more if you absolutely depend on Him. This is our organization. Here also duty, depending on Kṛṣṇa. At least ten to fifteen thousand men we are feeding daily. So how it is being done throughout the whole world? And everywhere opulence like this. We are not poverty-stricken. Ye to aap apne aankh se dekh sakte hain. (You can see this with your own eyes.) So simply depending . . . (indistinct Hindi)

Surendra Kumar: (indistinct Hindi) . . . unless we don't want to stay in the . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no, this is not same. This is aparā . . . parā. (laughter) This is parā. Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. Ahaituky apratihatā yenātmā samprasīdati. If you want real peace and happiness, then you have to come to this platform, paro dharma. Material means it has no limit, "I have got so much opulence. I want more. I want more. I want more. I want more." And paro dharma? Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce (CC Madhya 22.42). "All right, I don't want anything." This is the . . . Iska demand ka limit nahi hai. Aur udhar demand khatam ho gaya. (There is no limit for this demand and on the other hand, all the demand is finished.) . . . (indistinct)

Surendra Kumar: Isse keh rahe the ki humlog ka dhikkar hai jivan ki swamiji ke bhakt bahar se aaye hue hain aur humlog yahan par seva me nahi hai. (I was telling her that, shame to our existence that the devotees of spiritual master have come from foreign countries and we are not in service being here.)

Surendra Kumar: That I have been not following Prabhupāda when so many people have. We must do our duty to do. Because of our slavery, this righteousness and earnestness has gone out of our life. We are not earnest.

Prabhupāda: Anyway . . . (indistinct Hindi) . . . Ye aajkal usko tala band karke rakha hai . . . (It has been under lock and key in the present age.) So this is the first time an attempt to distribute. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu ka yehi mission hai. (This is the mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.) Bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra sārthaka (CC Adi 9.41). It is special prerogative for the Indians, to distribute this knowledge. That will glorify India's position.

Surendra Kumar: This is what he was . . . Vajpayee was hinting at this very thing, that we want to use this organization for spreading our spiritual heritage all over the world. An 10.15)d he said this, that "I want to utilize your organization for this purpose."

Prabhupāda: So if the opportunity . . .

Dr. Kapoor: Government ne interest dikhai hai. (The government has shown interest.)

Surendra Kumar: For the first time you have a government which has thinking of this. Otherwise what do you mean by secularism? Secular does not mean . . .

Prabhupāda: Kya lengi? (What will you take?)

Lady guest: Kuch aashirwad ka ek shabd aur kuch nahi chahiye. Itne bade . . . (Some words of blessings and doesn't want anything else. Such great . . .)

Surendra Kumar: Your Divine Grace, it is our good fortune that we have such administrators . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Surendra Kumar: . . . in which some of the people, Advani, for example, and Vajpayeejī. These two people are . . .

Prabhupāda: What is the Advani? He is other . . .

Surendra Kumar: They write paper.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Jan Sakirna.

Surendra Kumar: Very nice. They have nothing about . . . nothing of Jana-sangha. They have nothing of R.S.S. They have risen very high. They're now saying that this great country must get the rightful place in the world. Why, with all this spiritual heritage . . .

Prabhupāda: And that should be done.

Surendra Kumar: . . . with all this intellectual power, we should not be . . . we should be with a begging bowl?

Prabhupāda: And that is my mission.

Surendra Kumar: Yes, sir. That's what I'm saying, for the first time. Otherwise nobody would have appreciated in the last government. Who was the person to talk to . . .

Prabhupāda: In the Berkeley University I was speaking. One Indian student got up, and he said: "Swāmījī, what this Hare Kṛṣṇa will do? Now we require technology," like that. (laughter) And "Yes, you have come here to beg technology. You remain beggar. I have come to give something."

Surendra Kumar: Correct, sir. Correct, sir.

Prabhupāda: "I am not a beggar. I have come here to give something," I replied.

Surendra Kumar: Your Divine Grace was right. He wants the best of people.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is . . .

Surendra Kumar: Whom you want to call . . .

Prabhupāda: So you make everything complete today. You busy man . . .

Surendra Kumar: No, it is not necessary to make today. Let him have your full instructions, who are the people . . .

Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct Hindi)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we'll prepare a draft and show it . . . read it to you.

Prabhupāda: Take every step, this inquiry. He's experienced.

Surendra Kumar: And, sir, it is very necessary to mention: I will write what Prabhupāda wants that, "These people should be given . . ."

Prabhupāda: The simple thing is that they are . . .

Surendra Kumar: ". . . to get Indian citizenship because they are doing this work. They will be doing this work. They will be doing this work. And their long-time stay, permanent stay in India, will be beneficial for the great work that you have started."

Prabhupāda: And actually, because they are helping me, I have been able . . .

Surendra Kumar: They have been giving you help.

Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, these Europeans . . .

Surendra Kumar: Yes, yes, I know, disciples, they are . . .

Prabhupāda: Otherwise how could I do?

Surendra Kumar: Sir, Your Divine Grace, to be very honest, I told him in his presence that, "You know that we Indians are not honest and earnest about anything. If these people have given up their life there and they are devoting their life and dedicated their life, let us utilize them so that we can have hard-core of . . ."

Prabhupāda: Where is Tamāla? That boy? That black boy? What is his name?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, Gyaneswar.

Prabhupāda: Gyaneswar. About his activities.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want me to read it?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, it is very interesting, how they are fighting against odds to introduce our movement. There is a written description.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's one Negro devotee of Prabhupāda. They're distributing books in Communist countries. So he has written a report how they are fighting against odds.

Surendra Kumar: Oh, yes, I . . . quite right.

Dr. Kapoor: Ghanaśyāma came here last year.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That Negro boy.

Surendra Kumar: I told him that, "These people will form the hard core, and that our organization will be organized, and then . . ." He also said that so many temples are dying out.

Prabhupāda: It will develop. Ye log hamare guru maharaj kehte the (quote in Bengali). Bhagvan ko khada kar diya . . . us ladka ka shaadi karo, wo ladki ka shaadi karo, maja karo . . . (These people, my Guru Maharaja used to say (Bengali quote). They installed God . . . perform marriage for that boy, perform marriage for this girl, have fun . . .) Ṭhākura has become a source of income.

Surendra Kumar: I told him, "We are ready to take over the temples and run away from." But, as Prabhupāda rightly said, everybody now has made it an institution for . . .

Prabhupāda: For earning money.

Surendra Kumar: . . . for material advancement.

Prabhupāda: As we have got . . .

Dr. Kapoor: No, I tell you, there are people . . . you see, if you tell them that, "Come on, we shall spend a lakh or two lakhs of rupees on this temple. Are you agreeable?" they will say: "No." I have that experience. I have that experience, you see. Why? Because if a temple is not in good condition, they go out, meet people and say: "Look here, this is the condition of the temple. Could you not donate something?"

Prabhupāda: No, I tried. Rādhā-Dāmodara Temple, I have tried.

Dr. Kapoor: It's a regular source of business for them, you see. And if the temple is renovated, that source will stop. That source will stop. It is in their interest that the temple may never . . . is never renovated, so that . . .

Surendra Kumar: They can continuously beg over.

Dr. Kapoor: Continuously beg.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want me to read this, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Dear Śrīla Prabhupāda . . ." This is a black devotee. "Please forgive me for my countless offenses against you and the entire Vaiṣṇava community. In desperation I beg that you accept my apology for being such an artificial devotee. My humble obeisances I quickly offer to you. I am simply praying every day for you to force me to become a true disciple. Otherwise I will be doomed."

Prabhupāda: How humble he is!

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Spiritual life means to please the Gurudeva . . ."

Prabhupāda: He was a principal somewhere?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This boy was the top of his class in Yale University. He's the president of the class, top man in the entire graduating class. Says: "Spiritual life means to please the Gurudeva, to capture his mercy. Therefore I have offered this report to you about the first half of the work thus far done in Communist Yugoslavia. Knowing that you are very eager to know about the activities in the Communist communities, I submit this report for your pleasure and encouragement. In Yugoslavia everywhere you see soldiers, and even the people, while not in uniform, have the air of soldiers. They are in general very concerned with discipline, allegiance and physical fitness. In any downtown, at 4:30 in the morning, the streets are crowded as people by the hundreds are marching to work. Sometimes you see children in little mobs, chanting in the streets slogans of loyalty to Tito. In all of the classrooms in the universities there are big pictures of Tito staring at you as soon as you come in the room. Sometimes my life is being threatened or sought after by the authorities. Still . . ."

Prabhupāda: It is very dangerous work.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Still Lord Caitanya always gives me protection. The people who like our books are more appreciative than most people I have seen thus far, because they find your books to be very unique. Your books are not only a direct connection with the West for them, but also an active expression of many of their dormant desires. In almost every case, the books sell themselves.

"At the University of Belgrade. This is the capital city and the largest university in Yugoslavia. With full confidence in the power of the holy name, we attacked this university first. We bombed at their arteries. In these universities the bookshops are the entities supplying foreign books to everyone. They are the life-force supporting the university. Of the four international bookshops, they all took both standing orders of all the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatams and Caitanya-caritāmṛtas immediately, and one other shop also wanted books but wanted to wait to see which and how many copies their customers would demand. At one bookshop the manager was so pleased he requested a standing order of all of your books for his personal library also. At another bookshop they found our books so beautiful that three of the top employees, including the director, got into a group, staring at the books for over one half hour, passing them back and forth in complete amazement. One lady never looked up for the whole time, but kept reading and examining the Bhāgavatam. The Institute of Sociology and Philosophy called in a specialist to deliberate on your books, and unanimously they agreed to buy the standing orders for the Institute. Some of them later asked for individual books for themselves. One professor of Ethnology, acting like a magnet, attracted all necessary persons, getting them together so that they could buy the standing orders for the Ethnology Library. The eagerness of the professors here to have your books is epitomised by one professor of English, who I offered the books to. When she discovered that she could buy the Bhagavad-gītā from our company, she held tenaciously to my sample copy, dashed in her room to borrow money from a friend, practically throwing the money at me and then closing the door quickly, keeping my sample copy. (laughter) I was very happily bewildered, knowing that she would get an immediate opportunity to associate with the Absolute Truth. Therefore I packed my bag and headed for my next battlefield.

"On the way to the next university I stopped at one small language school. Here I met one professor who taught Sanskrit. He was very pleasant but rather old. He very enthusiastically wanted the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam standing order. I was so amazed because I thought this enthusiasm of his was so intense that it may take the old man's life at any moment. Surely he was getting a supreme benediction.

"At the Universtity of Skopje, in complete bewilderment, not being able to find anyone who could speak English or any information center, I simply wandered around the university waiting for Lord Caitanya to make some facility available for me. I drifted in one room seeking information, to find that I was in the Philosophy Library. So I spontaneously tried to sell them your books. As happens many times, it is impossible to find someone who speaks English, so you pass through many persons to find one who just superficially understands you. Or sometimes you must speak with several at once, and collectively you can communicate. Here I spoke with four persons who understood each other. We understood each other very little. Sometimes I spoke in English, and sometimes I spoke in French. However, the most important thing we all understood was that they wanted the books, so I sold them both standing orders of all of your books. I stumbled next into the department for English. They gave me a seat, and the professors refused to let me get up for several hours, until they all bought the books they desired. The first teacher told me that these kind of literatures had great universal truths. Such comments, coming from a Communist person, needless to say was quite pleasing to hear. She demanded both standing orders for herself. She told me before I left the department that she had been contemplating reading some Eastern philosophy; now her desires were fulfilled. She called one of her colleagues, who rushed down to meet me, who also bought all of the books. He is a philosopher and teaches Eastern philosophy. He ordered our books to employ in his classroom as textbooks. Just as I was about to get up, another group of professors dashed over to me. This time the chief and most respected professor of the entire Institution pushed his way over to see what was going on. When he saw what I had . . . when he saw all of your books, he overpowered the conversation with wanting everything for himself. He had to rush off for an examination, but not before buying the Caitanya-caritāmṛta standing order and some small books also, for his own study. Also, he had previously been reading a Gītā and was delighted to buy our Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Observing the whole time, the English librarian joined me after everyone had left. He wanted both standing orders for the English library, and then he agreed to buy both standing orders for himself also. By this time I was drowning in order forms for standing orders. I swept all of my orders together, put them in my briefcase, and later had to literally run out of the university because of envious officials who were pursuing me to arrest me. (laughter) This running simply allowed me to reach my next university that much quicker.

"At the University of Novisat, at this university I felt completely helpless. I could not find any professors in their offices. I waited and waited during the course of the day. I met only four professors, but three of them bought books. One professor of Linguistics, who was the only professor on his floor, bought a standing order of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatams. Another professor of Literature already had your Bhāgavatams and he bought another book. Then I went to visit a dean of the college. She was completely overwhelmed. Not only did she buy both standing orders for herself, but she wanted to buy them for the Institution and the University Library as well. She personally put on her coat and marched with me into the librarian's office. When we got there, she sat me down and she sold your books to the librarian. I simply handed her the order form, showing her where it should be signed, and she did all of the speaking. How amazing—a deserted school in a Communist country, but still, by your mercy, so many books were sold.

"Then at the University of Zagreb. It is the only univesity in Yugoslavia with a special program for Indology. I met the professor who held the chair for Indology. She had been waiting for your books for some time—that is, many lifetimes. She bought the standing orders and several other books, and then she wrote me a very nice note asking the bookshop to buy every single book you have published. She was pleased that your books were for everyone—scholar and layman. I explained to her how only you were writing books for all of mankind. This was the high point—selling your books to one of the most important contacts in the whole of Yugoslavia. To my surprise, this was only a beginning. At the end of the day, the Psychology Institute bought a Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam standing order, the Academy of Arts and Sciences, a very scholarly faculty, bought both standing orders of Bhāgavatams and Caitanya-caritāmṛtas. The Ethnology Museum bought both standing orders, and of great significance, the Theology Seminary, which is a college of its own, bought the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam standing order.

"This is appearing to be one of the biggest fields of all the countries, and it is only one-half finished. Just yesterday I walked into the National University Library of Ljubljana and came out with two strong standing orders and recommendations from the librarian asking other neighboring libraries to also buy your books. Surely this is all happening by your mercy. It is your mercy which is for all mankind. I remain, begging for that mercy, your fallen servant, Ghanaśyāma dāsa brahmacāri."

Surendra Kumar: Wonderful.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: From Yugoslavia.

Prabhupāda: What is the news?

Surendra Kumar: Is he permanently staying there?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, traveling around.

Surendra Kumar: Because I know two very powerful Indians who have settled there.

Prabhupāda: The sales report, book report.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That book sales report?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Even from Russia we got very good orders in every institution. Russia. I was there last year.

Surendra Kumar: Actually, what you are doing nobody else has been doing in the past.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Surendra Kumar: Everybody is aware of our great heritage except ourselves. That is the most unfortunate thing.

Prabhupāda: The sales report, what is?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is a sales report we just received. It's as of March 6, 1977. It reports the book sales in each language up to date. In the English language so far, 434 lakhs 50,000 editions of the books. That's copies of books. In Spanish, 29 lakhs 47,000 copies. German: 21 lakhs 25,000 copies. Then Japanese, 21 lakhs 25,000 copies in print. French: 16 lakhs 70,000 copies. Portuguese, 8 lakhs 35,000 copies. Dutch, 5 lakhs 93,000 copies. Italian, 4 lakhs 48,000 copies. Hindi, 4 lakhs 25,000 copies. Bengali, 3 lakhs 5,000 copies. Telegu, 1 lakh 15,000. Swahili 1 lakh 10,000 copies. Gujarati, 1 lakh. Chinese, 55,000 copies. Marathi, 50,000 copies. Korean, 20,000 copies. Yugoslavian, 20,000 copies. Oriya, 20,000 copies. Polish, 10,000 copies. Hungarian, 10,000 copies. Czechoslovakian, 10,000 copies, and Russian, 5,000 copies. Total, 553 lakhs 14,000 books printed.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In six years.

Surendra Kumar: Can I have a copy of this?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Surendra Kumar: Your Divine Grace, when I will write the personal letter to . . .

Prabhupāda: Give him whatever he wants.

Surendra Kumar: (indistinct) . . . he has stayed with me for one night and one day. I want to have a personal talk with him . . . (indistinct) . . . and everybody who has been staying with me. Adityakar ji, Golmalkar ji, gurudev of these people RSS Golmalkar ji, he was staying in my house, Adiyakar his guru was staying in my house. . . . (indistinct) . . . stayed again when he came on election campaign in 1971. Now I know these people don't remember . . .

Prabhupāda: Whatever you want, you take.

Surendra Kumar: What I want to . . . (indistinct) . . . "You have been giving the . . . (indistinct) . . . to this man because so many books of his are being . . . here is a man, Indian, whose 550 lakhs of books have been sold. Not a single Indian born up to, from . . ."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Surendra Kumar: ". . . who has written and whose so many copies have been sold over . . . what are you doing if you can't help this organization?" Because there must be facts . . .

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Surendra Kumar: And the facts must be so brought out, and that will make a new impact on his mind. That must be done. I told him, "You are a working man whose two lakhs of books were sold, three lakhs of books. Here is a person, crores of books have been sold. And we should cultivate him as a friend, cultivate him as a leader."

Prabhupāda: So whatever materials he wants, give him.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, definitely.

Prabhupāda: He went to show into foreign language, foreign religion, Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Just see. (laughs) Standing order they give. To sab milkarke, (So all together,) this Indian culture, push on. Don't keep it lock up.

Surendra Kumar: Under your guidance . . .

Prabhupāda: Don't keep it lock up. Sarasvatī jñāna-khale yada sati (SB 10.2.19). These words are there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata. Saraswati ko lock up karne se gyan . . . (They have locked up the goddess of learning Saraswati, will the knowledge . . .)

Surendra Kumar: Prabhupāda, this man, this literature he understands. He himself composes poetry in Urdu as well as in Hindi. And he likes that our Indian culture and our heritage must be spread all over.

Prabhupāda: So here is the opportunity. Come and join together.

Surendra Kumar: He is fond of these things.

Prabhupāda: And we have got standard. We haven't got to manufacture.

Surendra Kumar: No, there is nothing to manufacture.

Prabhupāda: No, not . . . everything is there. Everything is there.

Surendra Kumar: So only these things have to be brought to his knowledge.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Surendra Kumar: I am a person. I am a devotee. I did not get all this information because the book, that journal that you publish. That also we do not get such data.

Prabhupāda: And the Supreme Person is delivering Himself as Kṛṣṇa and Veda-vyāsa. Veda-vyāsa is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is . . . mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7), the supreme man, Supreme Being. He is giving the knowledge, and we have to, simply have to . . . Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is just distribute what the Supreme Person has given to you. Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). So you haven't got to manufacture. You haven't got to become a scholar.

Surendra Kumar: Yes, I know. You have always been telling that it is not what you're saying. What Kṛṣṇa said, you tell them . . .

Prabhupāda: That's all right. This is very easy. So I am not a scholar. I am simply . . . whatever is said there, I am trying to distribute in a palatable way. That's all. It is not my manufacture. And that is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's . . . āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). You all become guru. "How can I become guru? I have no education. I have no knowledge." No, you haven't got to acquire all these things. That is already . . . yāre dekha tāre kaha. Finished. So I never tried to become a scholar. But I tried, whatever is spoken by Kṛṣṇa, deliver. That's all. And that is guru. If some . . .

Dr. Kapoor: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you should rest now.

Prabhupāda: Eh? No . . .

Surendra Kumar: Talking too much with Your Divine Grace, we have put you through lot of strain.

Prabhupāda: Tamal was there?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, yes, nice room. We had prasādam. He had lunch with us.

Surendra Kumar: Everything is your mercy, Divine Grace.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct Hindi) . . . Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Mr. and Mrs. Kumar leave) You feel disgusted. sab experiment karte hain...

Indian man: Hum samajhte the aap Mumbai me hain. Ek chitti likhi thi humne apko mahina dedh mahine hua mumbai me, mila apko? (I was thinking that you are in Mumbai. I had written a letter to you about a month and a half back in Mumbai, did you get it?)

Prabhupada: How long we have left Bombay?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We left Bombay about a month and a half ago.

Prabhupāda: Ek sriman narayan hain mumbai me member hain wo recommend kiya . . . (There is one Mr. Sriman Narayan in Mumbai who is a member, he was recommending . . .) recommended that . . . what is that?

Indian man: Ab aap Brindavan chod ke yahan aaye hain. (Now you have left Vrindavan and come here.)

Prabhupada: Isiliye chalo Vrindavan me jivan . . . (That is why life is okay in Vrindavan . . .)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hrishikesh.

Dr. Kapoor: Going and coming, you see, that gives him a lot of strain.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. Prabhupāda feels at home here in Vṛndāvana.

Dr. Kapoor: Mentally as well as physically.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I am feeling . . . . . . theek hai . . . (. . . alright . . .)

Dr. Kapoor: You have fulfilled the mission of your life. You, if at all you pass away, you'll pass with that satisfaction which . . .

Prabhupāda: Gurukula building aap dekha hai? Aalishan hai. Gītā sannidhi dekhiye, bada accha hai. (Have you seen the gurukula building? It is very royal. See the Gītā sannidhi, it is very nice.) Very, very . . . very exalted building.

Dr. Kapoor: Aapko hamari kitab mili hai? (Have you got our book?) You got it here or at Bombay?

Prabhupāda: Where we got that, that . . .?

Dr. Kapoor: My book?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We got it here, in Vṛndāvana.

Dr. Kapoor: Humne usko sub title diya hai jaan boozh karke, (I have given subtitles to it purposely,) philosophical background of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, so that people may know that this is not a new religion. It's well founded. I've traced the history, the development of Vaiṣṇavism, earliest Vedic period to the present. Wo case to aap jeet gaye.

Prabhupāda: Glories se jeeta hai, accept kiya (Have won it with glories, they accepted) "The Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is genuine, bona fide." Uska judgment final tha, (their judgment was final.) So you are ready?

Dr. Kapoor: Phir aayenge. (We will come again.) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

Prabhupada: Dekhiye . . . (Just see . . .) (break)

Dr. Kapoor: Aapse milne ke liye 10 baje ke bad time theek rehta hai shayad. (To meet you after 10 o'clock will probably be fine.)

Prabhupada: Wohi sade nau. (Yes around 9.30.)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The only explanation can be that Kṛṣṇa is in everyone's heart.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam (BG 10.10): "I give him intelligence."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In the Kṛṣṇa book there's the part where Lord Brahmā steals away all the calves and children, so then Kṛṣṇa gives Himself instead. So . . .

Prabhupāda: Not gives. He exands Him . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Expands Himself. So Balarāma is wondering, "How is it possible that everyone is so attracted?" Then the explanation is, "He's Kṛṣṇa." So these books are there. People are automatically attracted. I don't think they're so attracted to any other books.

Prabhupāda: No, what other books? Rubbish. I say rubbish. There is no book. Mental speculation is not book. Garbage.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Food for crows.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. It is garbage. Tad-vaga-visarga-janata . . . pragrnita, tad vayasa-tīrtham: "Garbage for the crows." Yes. No swan will come there. That is already explained. Kṛṣṇa has at least saved us from reading this garbage. We are not interested with any book or newspaper or anything. We kicked out. At least I am not interested in reading any other except Bhāgavata. That is there. Punaḥ punaś carvi . . . (SB 7.5.30). Sex literature, nonsense. "Phu!" Mukha-vikāraḥ bhava . . . tad-avadhi bata nārī-saṅgame smaryamāne bhavati mukha-vikaraḥ suṣṭhu niṣṭhīvanam. This is the real . . . hmm. Let us go to the . . .

Yaśodānandana: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: You open the door and close. And keep open. Why it is . . . (break) They will close the closet, and I'll open the closet and go on, open and go on . . . (indistinct) . . . bad. Very bad. (break) There is a agent preparing the stolen papers . . . (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Every time I go to the marketplace . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: And well done, to the next . . . (indistinct) . . . what I have got? In the Deity room silver stand, silver lamp, silver plate. I do not find this. (break) . . . is known there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Seems like more varieties of living entities take birth in Bhāratavarṣa than anywhere else. I don't find this kind of . . . so many different kinds of bugs are there. Here every day a new bug comes out, new type of bug.

Prabhupāda: Not new. (laughs) You see new. They are all existing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They hatch. (end)