751002 - Lecture SB 07.05.30 - Mauritius

Lectures by Date, 1975

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

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751002SB-MAURITIUS - October 02, 1975 - 45:35 Minutes

Harikeśa: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Seventh Canto, Fifth Chapter, thirtieth verse. (leads chanting of verse, etc.)

prahlāda uvāca

matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā

mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha-vratānām

adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ

punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām

(SB 7.5.30)

(break)

Prabhupāda:

prahlāda uvāca

matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā

mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha-vratānām

adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ

punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām

(SB 7.5.30)

So we are trying to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is very difficult task, because people are so much addicted to material enjoyment that they do not like this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, although this is the objective, aim, and ultimate goal of human life: how to revive our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Since we have forgotten Kṛṣṇa . . . Kṛṣṇa means God. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). This is the verdict of the Vedic literature, that people are searching after God, making great research work to find out what is God. Most people, they are not interested in God. At the present moment, especially in this Kali-yuga, they are not interested in God consciousness.

Why they are not interested in God consciousness? That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā:

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛta-jñānā

āsuri-bhāvam āśritāḥ

(BG 7.15)

Kṛṣṇa says: "These classes of men, namely . . ." First is the duṣkṛtina. Duṣkṛtina means always engaged in sinful activities. Kṛti. Kṛti means very meritorious, very intelligent, kṛti, this word. But duṣkṛti: their merit is being utilized in sinful activities. They are called duṣkṛti. They could be utilized for making this life perfect, but instead of doing that, they are engaged in sinful activities. Sinful activities mean sense gratification. Sense gratification, they are . . . when one becomes very much addicted to sense gratification . . . the symptoms are very prominent in this age. Everyone is working very hard simply for sense gratification. And as soon as you take this life of sense gratification, you are sure to commit sinful activities.

For example, throughout the whole world there are so ma&ny breweries manufacturing liquor. Especially in the Western countries you will find so many, the advertisement, liquor advertisement, whiskey advertisement, cigarette advertisement. And what to speak of slaughterhouse? There are many, many hundreds and thousands of slaughterhouse. And innocent animals are being killed all over the world unnecessarily. People can live with food grains. That is allowed for the all living entities. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14): "Simply by growing food grains, both the animals and the man, they can live very happily." You can grow food grains very easily. I have seen in the Western countries, they are growing food grains for the animals, and the food grains are eaten by the animals, and the animal is eaten by man. They are producing food grains. What is the statistics—that the animal eating food grains, the same time, the same amount food grains can be eaten by so many men?

Brahmānanda: The acreage . . . for a cow to eat requires so many acres for that one cow, and then that cow is slaughtered and it only feeds a few men, whereas that same acreage could feed hundreds of men by grains.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Seventeen times.

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Prabhupāda: So these things are to be noted, how they are engaged in sinful activities. And the solution is given in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "Produce food grain." Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). So I see in your this Mauritius land, you have got enough land to produce food grains. So you produce food grain. I understand that instead of growing food grains, you are growing sugarcane for exporting. Why? And you are dependent on food grains, on rice, wheat, ḍāl. Why? Why this attempt? You first of all grow your own eatables. And if there is time and if your population has got sufficient food grains, then you can try to grow other fruits and vegetables for exporting. The first necessity is that you should be self-sufficient. That is God's arrangement. Everywhere there is sufficient land to produce food grains. Not only in your country; I have traveled all over the world—Africa, Australia, and other, in America also. There are so much land vacant that if we produce food grain, then we can feed ten times as much population as at the present moment. There is no question of scarcity. The whole creation is so made by Kṛṣṇa that everything is pūrṇam, complete. Pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate, pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate (Īśo Invocation). If we don't produce food grain—you require it—and put unnecessarily men into scarcity, that is sinful. That is sinful.

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Everything, every instruction for our happy life and to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and make life perfect . . . unfortunately, we do not know what is the perfect life. Therefore it is said here, punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30): "Chewing the chewed." If we don't make our life perfect . . . perfect means stop this business of chewing the chewed. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām. Now, suppose we have got this human form of life. Now, by our pious activities we may be elevated to the higher planetary system, Svargaloka, heavenly planet. But what we shall gain there? The same sense gratification in higher standard, that's all. Just like sense gratification is there in the society of the cats and dogs, sense gratification is there in one country, in another country, but the arrangement is . . . may be, little different. But the pleasure of sense gratification is the same, either you enjoy it as a dog, as a human being or as a demigod. The sense gratification pleasure is not different. It is the same.

So we are, in this material world, we are changing our body, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), and enjoying sense gratification. That is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30): again chewing the chewed. I have tasted it in this life or that life; again I am trying to that. So this business, when we are disgusted with this business, that is called knowledge. So that knowledge and that renunciation, or detachment, can be achieved only by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Only by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is clearly stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). If we simply study Kṛṣṇa in truth, then tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya: then the result will be that after giving up this present body he will not have to accept another material body. To accept another material body, that is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Either I get this human form of body, either get as the body of a dog or either I get the body of a demigod, the business is the same, āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca: eating, sleeping and sex life and defense. Don't think that the heavenly planet, they are very safe. We have got information from Bhāgavatam: Lord Indra, he is always perplexed. So many demons disturbing, the fighting is going on, although they have got a long duration of life, ten thousands of years, their duration of life. And their one year . . . their one day is equal to our six months.

So this way our life is being spoiled, and it can be stopped only by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness . . . Prahlāda Mahārāja saying that, "This Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot be achieved by gṛha-vratānām." Gṛha-vratānām means those who are interested in this family life or sense gratification life. For them it is very difficult. The talking was going on between the father and the son. The son is Prahlāda. He is a devotee. And the father, Hiranyakasipu, he is materialistic person. He is interested in money and women. So this is the difference between devotee and nondevotee. So father was challenging his son, "Where you got this Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" So the son replied flatly that matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā: "My dear father, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot be achieved by speculation or by hearing from others." Matir na . . . parata means hearing from others, and svataḥ, svata means personally by mental speculation or philosophical speculation. Mitho. Mitho means by congregational meeting, by conferences. Why? Now, gṛha-vratānām.

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If one is addicted to this material way of life, he cannot understand, or cannot be convinced, about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the Bhagavad-gītā also, it is said that:

bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ

tayāpahṛta-cetasāṁ

vyavasāyātmikā buddhiḥ

samādhau na vidhīyate

(BG 2.44)

Those who are too much attached for materialistic way of life—means sense gratification . . . materialistic way of life means sense gratification. What is the difference between spiritual life and material life? These boys, these boys from Europe and America, they have adopted this spiritual life means they have stopped the process of sense gratification—no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. This is materialistic way of life. Otherwise, where is the difference between this life and that life?

So if we stick to the materialistic way of life, it will be very, very difficult to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha-vratānām'. Why? Now, adānta-gobhiḥ. Adānta means uncontrolled. Uncontrolled. Our senses are uncontrolled. This morning, when I was walking on the beach, we found so many things—the capsule of the Coca-cola, cigarette butts and so many other things. So what is the necessity of this Coca-cola? You don't find all these things in our Society. We don't drink Coca-cola. We don't drink Pepsi-cola. We don't smoke. So many things which are selling in the market in huge quantity by advertisement, by victimizing the poor customer . . . but they are called unnecessary things. There is no need of such things. But adānta-gobhiḥ, because the senses cannot be controlled, they are making business. They are making business, unnecessary thing. So we have to control the senses. If we really want spiritual life, if we really want to be freed from these material clutches, then we have to learn how to control the senses. That is wanted. That is the purpose of human life. Now . . . that is the purpose of human life. Human life is not meant for imitating the life of cats and dogs and hogs. That is not human life.

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This morning there was press representative. So they came to take some information. Our first information is that we are trying to bring human being to the standard of human being from the standard of cats' and dogs' life. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Cats' and dogs' life means these adānta-go, uncontrolled senses. That is cats' and dogs' life. Just like one dog, one female dog, is surrounded by one dozen male dog. Why? Adānta-gobhiḥ: they cannot control their senses. On the street they are having sex. They cannot control the senses. Adānta-gobhiḥ. So human life means control the senses. That is human life. If you remain like cats and dogs, adānta-gobhiḥ, without controlling the senses, then where is the difference between dog and you? There is no difference. Actually that is being accepted at the present moment. The so-called civilization means to allow the senses to enjoy as far as possible. This is advancement of civilization. The same example: Just we can be very happy by eating the food grains, which must we have to produce either for me or for the animal. Without producing food grain you cannot even eat the meat. Because they want food grains, they want vegetable, so you have to produce. But because we have uncontrolled senses, instead of eating the grains, we are eating the animals.

So this is called adānta-gobhiḥ. We do not consider that, "The life which I am killing for my subsistence, it is eating grain, and I can also eat grain. So why shall I commit this sinful life by killing another living being?" So you cannot do that. You are not allowed to kill even an ant. Just like in any state, suppose one man is useless; he is not doing anything. So you cannot kill. The state will take step. You will have to be hanged. You cannot say that, "This man was useless, it has no utility for the society. Therefore I have killed him." No. That is consideration of the human being. That is man-made law. But God-made laws, any living being if you kill, the same punishment. But that we do not know on account of our uncontrolled senses. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram. We do not know that by killing innocent animals we are going to the darkest region of hellish life. Actually that is happening now, hellish life. The child is in the womb of the mother; it is hellish condition. With stool, urine, it is floating. And there also the life is not safe, because at the modern advanced civilization the child is being killed even by the mother. This is going on.

So we do not know subtle laws of nature, subtle laws of God, how things are happening, how things are going on. And without knowing these facts, our human life is spoiled. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to convince, educate people the value of life, how the process of living conditions are going on. Not we have manufactured all this. It is received from the Vedas. Vedas means the book of knowledge. Veda means knowledge. Vetti veda vido jñāne. Jñāna means knowledge. So human life is meant for taking knowledge, jñāna. Jñāna-vairāgya. So:

vāsudeve bhagavati

bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ

janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ

jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam

(SB 1.2.7)

When we understand . . . we are now implicated in so many sinful life, and we have to reap the result. We have to suffer for it in dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We are not going to die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). It is not that everything . . .

The atheists thinks like that—"When this body is finished, everything is finished." That is not the fact. There were atheists in India also. They say, bhasmī-bhūtasya dehasya kutaḥ punar āgamano bhavet, yāvaj jīvet sukhaṁ jīvet (Cārvāka Muni). That is the atheistic theory, actually, that we are not, I mean to say, this . . . subjected to death. Na jāyate na mriyate vā (BG 2.20). We are not subjected. This . . . we are simply changing the dress, this body. But as soul, I am eternal, you are eternal, and on account of our uncontrolled senses, unbridled senses, we are changing different types of body. Suppose I am now human being, I am enjoying life very nicely, but if next life I become a dog, street dog, we can see how miserable life it is. Or even I become a very powerful, strong animal, a tiger or a lion, there is still . . . it is miserable life. Miserable life.

So long we shall be in the material world, changing different bodies, it is miserable. Kleśada āsa dehaḥ. Anybody, it is kleśada, painful, miserable. The śāstra says:

nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma

yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti

na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam

asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ

(SB 5.5.4)

People have become mad, pramattaḥ, and doing all sinful activities. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma. Vikarma means sinful activities. And why they are doing so? Yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti: "Simply for sense gratification." There is no higher aim, only sense gratification. The śāstra says, na sādhu ayam: "This is not good." Why? Because on account of our sinful activities we have already got this painful, miserable, conditioned life, this body, and if we still go on like that, then again we shall get such body and suffering. This is sense. This is jñāna. We, every one of us, we are trying to be happy, without any suffering. That is the aim of life. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). We are living beings, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Our nature is to become happy, pleased, joyful. But this is not the way of becoming happy, joyful, and enjoy pleasure. This is not the way. The way is different. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

So everyone should be very serious to accept this process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness not only personally, but teach others, state-wise, family-wise, community-wise, so that we may not be envious to our dependent. We should be liberal. So give them the proper chance to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that they make their life happy and attain the stage of eternity. We are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Simply we are changing body. It is a great science. But unfortunately there is no teaching in the school, college and university. Simply we are in darkness. If we keep people in darkness and advertise that we are advancing, it is another type of cheating. So people should understand the value of life, the science of life, that tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), we are changing this body. And the samples of body, 8,400,000 forms of life . . . just like the trees are standing in our compound. They cannot move an inch. Is that very good life? So if I am asked to stand at a place for five minutes, it becomes troublesome. And they are standing for five thousand years. Just see the punishment.

So there are so many forms of life. There is no science to understand why there are varieties of life, why this tree standing in front of me in miserable condition and I am sitting in this room very comfortably. It is also a life; I am also a life. Why? Who is arranging for this different status of life? These are to be understood. And everything is there, clear, in the Bhagavad-gītā. If you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, study Bhagavad-gītā, and then after studying we study Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, then our life is successful. So every father, every state, every guardian, every guru, every . . . everyone, relative, should educate his dependent in Kṛṣṇa consciousness to give them chance to be liberated from this bondage of miserable condition of material life.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Guest (1): . . . (indistinct French)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (translating) Is it true that when you die, when you're going to die, you get another life?

Guest (1): Reincarnate.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You do not believe in this?

Guest (1): No. I haven't . . . for the moment I don't believe it, because, you see, when you die, you are not . . . when you have been damned . . .

Prabhupāda: You are dying every moment. You are dying every moment. Do you know that?

Guest (1): Yes. I know it.

Prabhupāda: You know it?

Guest (1): Yes, but when we die . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no, why . . .? You are dying every moment, not "When we die." You are dying every . . . just like what is your age?

Guest (1): I am twenty-two.

Prabhupāda: Twenty-two. Since your birth you have died already twenty-two years. Do you know that? Suppose if you'll live for eighty years, out of that twenty-two years minus, that means you have already died twenty-two years. Is it not?

Devotee: (French, explaining)

Guest (1): (French)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (translating) How does reincarnation happen when one dies?

Prabhupāda: Now, first of all, you have to admit this, that since your birth you have already died twenty-two years. Do you admit or not?

Devotee: (French, explaining)

Guest (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: Then why do you say: "When I die"? You have already died. It is less intelligence only that you cannot understand that you have died twenty-two years. Yes. That is the ignorance. So it is just like bank balance. You have got 100,000 rupees, and you are drawing. That means the bank balance is decreasing. So you are destined to live, say, for hundred years. Out of that, twenty-two years you have already died. So why don't you understand that you are dying every moment? So now, if you have understood . . .

Guest (2): No, you see, I think I better help them. He is speaking more French than me, he is from Reunion. (French to other guest) You see, these gentlemen want to know whether reincarnation . . . reincarnation, whether after death we come back.

Prabhupāda: It is a common sense. You were a child, so that body is dead, and now you are young man. So is it not incarnation?

Guest (2): (French, explaining to other guest) The same body, different stage in life . . .

Prabhupāda: Not the same body. Not the same body. (laughter)

Guest (2): No, not the same body. It is the same soul, and the body alters, you see, because the different stages, the structure . . . (French, explaining)

Prabhupāda: Brahmānanda, you come this side. Come this side. It is not the same body. When . . . when . . .

Guest (1): (French)

Guest (2): What he want to know, whether the end of the world . . .

Prabhupāda: No, first of all his question is incarnation. (laughter) You don't talk big, big words. First of all let him understand what is his question. The question is that after death how he is incarnated. That he can understand from the present life. His childhood body is dead, and he still has got a body. This is incarnation.

Guest (1): How do you understand that the end of the world?

Prabhupāda: No, first of all, your first question should be answered.

Guest (2): (French) So he's saying that he has got the message about reincarnation. He understand now.

Prabhupāda: Now, it is clear. It is clear that your childhood body is dead, your boyhood body is dead, and you are still . . . have a body. This is incarnation.

Guest (2): He understand now.

Guest (3): What he wants to know is, point is this, when the soul leaves the body completely, what happens after that?

Prabhupāda: This soul is eternal. It is . . . the soul is covered by two kinds of body. One is subtle body. Just like you have got your mind; I have got my mind. Do you see my mind? Do I see your mind? (second guest translates into French) So the soul is carried by two kinds of body. One body is this gross, made of earth, water, air, sky, like that. And the other . . . they are like shirt and coat. This is the coating, and there is another body, shirt, which is made of mind, intelligence and ego. So when this gross body is finished, the subtle body is there. So at the time of your death the mental condition will carry you to a similar body. (second guest translates into French) (break) This mental body you do not see. Therefore you say that this man is dead. It is not dead. The gross body is changed, and the mental body carries him to another gross body. (second guest translates) Any other question? That's all right. (end)