681228 - Lecture Initiation - Los Angeles

Lectures by Date, 1968

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this lecture

681228IN-LOS ANGELES - December 28, 1968 - 33:10 Minutes

Prabhupāda: New students they are going to be initiated today. But one thing you should know that people may not think that we are concerned with something old-fashioned. When the world is progressing to reach the moon planet we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. The people may not misunderstand that we are lagging behind with the scientific advancement. We have already passed all this scientific advancement.

In the Bhagavad-gītā this attempt of the human being to reach other higher planet is not a new thing. They are advertising in the paper, that the man's first step in the moon planet. But they do not know, millions and millions of men went there, and they have again come back. This is not a first time. This is time old practice. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly stated:

ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ

punar āvartino 'rjuna

(BG 8.16)

My dear Arjuna, even if you go to the highest planetary system which is called Brahmaloka, punar āvartinaḥ, you have to come back. So, this is not a new thing, this is known to these Kṛṣṇa conscious people.

So Kṛṣṇa says we should always remember that we are Kṛṣṇa conscious people. What Kṛṣṇa says we take it as the absolute truth. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa says that even if you attempt to reach to the highest planet which is called Brahmaloka. There are many planetary systems according to Vedic literature. The planetary system in which we are now, this is called Bhūr-loka.

Above this planet system is Bhuvar-loka. Above that planetary system there is Svargaloka. This moon belongs to the Svargaloka planetary system. Above the Svargaloka there is Janaloka. Then above that there is Maharloka, above that there is Satyaloka. Similarly, there are below planetary system: Tala, Atala, Nitala, Talātala, Pātāla, Rasātala, like that. So, there are 14 status of planetary system within this universe and our Gāyatrīmantra: oṁ bhūr bhuvaḥ svāḥ tat savitur vareṇyaṁ bhargo devasya dhīmahi. The sun is the chief planet within this universe. The sun is described in the Brahma-saṁhitā:

yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ

rājā samasta-sura-mūrtir aśeṣa-tejāḥ

yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakro

govindam adi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

(Bs. 5.52)

So, our aim is govindam adi-puruṣaṁ. It is not that those who are worshipping Govinda, Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Personality of Godhead, they are not aware of this. They know it very well. And therefore, in this verse, it is said, yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ. The sun is the chief amongst all planetary systems. It is just like the eye.

Or it is the eye of the Supreme Lord, yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala. savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ. Actually, without sun we cannot see, we may be very proud of our eyes. Can you show me what you can see? First of all, let me know. Eh? You cannot see even your next-door neighbour. By your eyes. Eh? You are challenging, "can you show me God?" What you can see? What is the value of your this nonsense eyes? But things are going on.

Some great Swāmī . . . this, this, this spiritual master, not at that time Swāmī he was a student. "Oh, can you show me God?" He said, "yes." And he said: "Yes I have seen God." Oh God is so cheap thing? Eh? You cannot see anything, what to speak of God, without sunshine. Therefore, the sun is called, yac-cakṣur eṣa sakala-grahāṇāṁ (Bs. 5.52).

Without sunrise you are blind, you're blind. At night can you see anything? Oh, you have to arrange for electricity, this that, so many things because the sun is not there. Try to understand everything practically don't be fools.

So, this sun is only one sun but there are millions and trillions of suns. That is also stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā:

yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-

koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhAdi vibhūti-bhinnam

tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa-bhūtaṁ

govindam adi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

(Bs. 5.40)

Yasya prabhā prabhavato, the bodily effulgence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Kṛṣṇa, Govinda is called brahma-jyoti. In that brahma-jyoti there are millions and trillions of universes. Just like within the sunshine there are millions and trillions of planets. Similarly, in the effulgence, shining effulgence of the body of Kṛṣṇa which is called brahma-jyoti. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi, so we get information millions and trillions of universes and in each universe, there is one sun.

So, there are millions and trillions of universes and millions and trillions of suns and moons and planets and so many things. But Kṛṣṇa says that if you try to go in one of these planets then you will simply waste your time. That's all. Simply waste your time. Practically also you see, now somebody has gone to the moon planet but what will you get? And what the human society will get out of it?

After spending so much money, so much energy, ten years adventure, if you have gone to moon planet and simply touched it. Then what is the benefit of that? You remain there and call your other friends, "come here." And even if you go there and remain there, what benefit will go?

ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ

punar āvartino 'rjuna

(BG 8.16)

So long we are in this material world, either this planet or other planets. The four things, birth death old age and disease will follow you. You cannot get rid. Suppose if you go and domicile in moon planet, if you can of course. By oxygen mask how long you can stay? But if you get that opportunity to stay there then what you will gain? You will gain a little more duration of life, that's all. Not that you are going to live forever there. No, no, that is not possible.

So, a little duration of life increase, what do you gain by that? Are the trees are not living for many, many years? Taravaḥ kiṁ na jīvanti (SB 2.3.18). In your country I have seen in San Francisco, there is a wood, there is a tree 7,000 years old. But what is the benefit? If you stand up in a place for 7,000 years and if you are proud of your living 7,000 years is that a very great credit? Standing up?

So Kṛṣṇa says all these things are nonsense.

ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ

punar āvartino 'rjuna

(BG 8.16)

You like to come back again, it is a great story. How one goes to the moon planet, how again comes back. These are all stated in the Vedic literature. It is not a very new thing. But what is our aim? Our aim is different. We are not going to waste our valuable time, Kṛṣṇa says that don't waste your time by these attempts. That you will go to this planet, to that planet, to that planet, to that planet. What you will gain? Your material miseries will follow you wherever you go. Therefore, in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is very nicely said by the author:

keha pāpe, keha puṇye kare viṣaya-bhoga

bhakti-gandha nāhi, yāte yāya bhava-roga

(CC Adi 3.97)

The purport of this verse is: in this material world somebody is enjoying, not enjoying everybody is suffering. But something we take it, it is enjoyment and something we take it as suffering. Actually, it is suffering. Who is there within this material world who does not suffer in disease? Who is there within this material world who does not suffer from old age? Who is there within this material world who does not die? And who wants to die?

Nobody wants to die. Nobody wants to die, and everybody dies then where is this enjoyment? Nobody wants to grow old and everybody becomes old then where is the enjoyment? Nobody wants to suffer from disease and everybody suffers from disease then where is the enjoyment? So, this is all nonsense. Within this material world there is no enjoyment. It is simply our concoction. This is enjoyment this is suffering. Everything is suffering.

Therefore, the Caitanya-caritāmṛta says viṣaya-bhoga. (CC Adi 3.97) Viṣaya means—what is that viṣaya? Viṣaya means the four things, eating sleeping mating and defending. So keha pāpe, keha puṇye, pāpe means—these four things will be there, but they may be third-grade. Just like taking for accepted you Americans you have got this country, you have got this body, American body by pious activities. Because you're materially prosperous and say in India they are poverty stricken.

Because I say wherever I go they say the state of India is poverty stricken. Actually, it is at the present moment so. So, it may be that they are suffering but this four things. Eating, you may be eating very nice things, butter bread and so many things and they might be eating without butter. But eating is there. It is not that because one is poverty stricken the wholesale men has died for want of food. No. Not even birds and beasts.

(aside) Not like this. Sit down.

So, this viṣaya-bhoga they. I mean to say, participating the four principles of bodily demands. Namely, eating sleeping mating and defending. That can be had in any circumstances even if you are born in impious condition, or you are born in pious condition. But the problem is how to get out of these four principles of life, namely birth death old age and disease. That is real problem. This is not real problem, what shall I eat? The birds and beasts they have no problem. In the morning they immediately chirping kzb, kzb, kzb. They have no problem. They know that we shall have our food. The cats and dogs also know they are confident they will get some food.

So, nobody is dying, that's a mistake. That over population, this and that. Everybody has got by God's arrangement, everyone has got food. But the quality may be different, that's all. But that quality of material enjoyment is not the end of life. The real problem is how to get out of this problems of life, birth death old age and disease. That cannot be solved by simply wasting time within this universe, this way or that way. Even if you go to the highest planet, these problems cannot be solved. Because there is also death although in the Brahmaloka the duration. In the moon planet so far, we have got information.

They live for 10,000 years and their one day is equal to our six months. So just imagine, that means 10,000 multiplied by 150. That is the duration of life in the moon planet. I do not know whether people from here will go to moon planet and live for so many days. That is not possible. Then the whole Vedic literature will be false. You can attain to go there make a farce, but it is not possible to live there. That is not possible.

So, this knowledge we have got read it from the Vedic scriptures. Therefore, we are not very much concerned to go to this planet or that planet. We are concerned to go directly to the planet where Kṛṣṇa is. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, what is that?

yānti deva-vratā devān

pitṝn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ

bhūtejyāyānti bhūtāni

mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām

(BG 9.25)

You can go to moon planet or sun planet. You can go even to sun planet, there are many millions and trillions of planets. That you can go, yānti deva-vratā devān. Similarly, there are Pitṛlokas planets, there also you can go. And if you want you can remain, bhūtejyāḥ. If you become material. Too much materialistic you can remain here. But mat yājinaḥ, those who are devotees of mine they come to me. So, we are aiming to that point.

yad gatvā na nivartante

tad dhāma paramaṁ mama

(BG 15.6)

So, this initiation is not a farce, this initiation means to initiate a person so that ultimately, he can go to that supreme planet Kṛṣṇaloka, Vṛndāvana. We are not sitting idly, we are also attempting to go to other planets. But that is not simply wasting time. This attempt will not be fruitful. Just attempt to go to Kṛṣṇa, fortunately at coincidence we have published one article in our "Back to Godhead".

(aside) Where is that?

(Back to Godhead Magazine no. 26, October 1969)

Devotee: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Here is an article you can read. The name is.

(aside) What is the name?

Devotee: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Here is an article it is, "Beyond The Universe." This article you will find, it is just fortunate that during this moment this article is also published, "Beyond This Universe."

There is place beyond this universe, that information you get from the Bhagavad-gītā. Unfortunately, Bhagavad-gītā is very popular book, since a very long time. And there are so many publications of Bhagavad-gītā in your country.

And imported also from India and you have also published but all these nonsenses they do not know what is beyond this universe. All these rascals they never preached, and they come here to preach Bhagavad-gītā. I say rascals because they did not give the real information. Simply bluff, therefore we have published this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Try to read it.

You'll find that information.

paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo

'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ

(BG 8.20)

There is another nature, just like you see this nature. Nature you understand. This cosmic manifestation is called nature—sva-bhāva. But there is another nature, para—that is superior. Bhāvānya, sva-bhāva another nature, anya, but that is different. How it is different? 'Vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ these manifested cosmic manifestation's.

This is one status and beyond this there is covering of the universe. That is non-manifested. So, beyond this manifested and non-manifested existence of this universe there is another nature. And what is that nature? Sanātanaḥ—eternal. And this nature, what is this nature? 'vyakto 'vyaktāt praṇaśyati, bhūtvā bhūtvāpraṇaśyati. Oh vinaśyati.

This material nature, you can understand this is common sense. Anything manifested here it will finish. Take for your example, this body. Suppose you are 30 years old, 30 years before your body was not manifested and say for another 50, or 50 years it will be again non-manifested. That is a fact. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). It is manifested and again it annihilated. Dissolved. Sagara laharī samāja, just like the waves in the sea they are coming, very big waves, high. Immediately within a second—finished.

So, they do not study, they are simply concerned with this bubble life which is. Which will be finished at any moment. So, as it is your body it is manifested, and it will be finished at any day. Similarly, the whole universe, this is also a gigantic material body and it will be finished. And when it will be finished, where is your moon planet and this planet or that planet? All finished.

Devotee: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: Why should you waste your time to go to such planet where everything will be finished. Try to go to Kṛṣṇaloka.

yad gatvā na nivartante

tad dhāma paramaṁ mama

(BG 15.6)

This is science. Try to understand. You understand yourself and preach this message throughout the whole world. They are in the darkness. They have no knowledge. Although they are very much proud. This is not advancement of knowledge. That you go after 10 years endeavour to go to the moon planet and touch it and come back and become very proud, "Oh I have touched!" And what is that? You have touched, what you have gained? But they are proud simply by touching, that's all. Live there, and if you live, how long you will live? It will be all finished. Try to find out that planet:

yad gatvā na nivartante

tad dhāma paramaṁ mama

(BG 15.6)

Where going no more coming back. You get eternal life and dance with Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees: Jaya. Hare Krishna.

Prabhupāda: This is the initiation. So, this. Don't take this initiation tritely. This initiation is giving you chance to reach the Kṛṣṇa and live there eternally and dance with.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Śrīla Prabhupāda. (devotees offer obeisances) (break)

Prabhupāda: What is that? Ācamana. . . (indistinct) . . . this is my drinking water but another water.

Devotee: Shall I light the candle Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes . . . so, try to follow the rules and regulation be strict too. Then your . . . tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). After this body. With this body wherever you go you will simply touch and come back, that's all. Oh, you cannot live and even if you live how long will you live? What is 10,000 years? In comparison to the time eternal. First thing you cannot live, neither you can go, and even if you live and if you can go. It is not that you are going to get eternal. But our concern is how to get eternal life and dance with Kṛṣṇa, that's all . . . where is that water? Why you forget?

Tamal Kṛṣṇa: He didn’t. He is bringing it now.

Prabhupāda: Keep it down . . . just see how I am doing. (Tinkling sound of ācamana cup) one, two, three. (Sipping sound) four. Do like that. (Śrīla Prabhupāda and devotees chanting mahā-mantra). Very good . . . now chant.

(Śrīla Prabhupāda chants with the devotees repeating responsively).

namaḥ, apa, vitraḥ, pavi, tra, vā, jaḥ, smaret,

puṇḍarī, kākṣaṁ, sa, bahya, abhyantaram, śuciḥ.

(Garuḍa Purāṇa)

śrī viṣṇu, śrī viṣṇu, śrī viṣṇu

(Śrīla Prabhupāda and devotees chanting mahā-mantra). (break)

Śīlavatī? . . . you can divide into two and put the two pillars of the throne for Kṛṣṇa, yes . . .

don't put it on the floor. (break) (end)