660817 - Lecture BG 04.37-40 - New York

Lectures by Date, 1966

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

660817BG.NY - August 17, 1966

Prabhupāda:

yathaidhāṁsi samiddho 'gnir

bhasmasāt kurute 'rjuna

jñānāgniḥ sarva-karmāṇi

bhasmasāt kurute tathā

(BG 4.37)

Yathā, "as," as an edhāṁsi. Edhāṁsi means "fuel." Sammidho 'gniḥ, "blazing fire"; bhasmasāt, "turns into ashes." Just like blazing fire, whatever you put into it, any fuel, that becomes turned into ashes, similarly, jñānāgniḥ, "when your fire of knowledge will be ablazed, then sarva-karmāṇi, all reaction of your work, will turned into ashes."

Because the reaction of our karma, reaction of our work, is the cause of our bondage. There are good work and bad work. Here it is stated, sarva-karmāṇi. Sarva-karmāṇi means either good work or bad work. There are reaction of bad work, and there is reaction of good work. But a, a person who is going to be liberated from this material bondage, for him, both good work and bad work are reprehensible.

There is no need of reaction of good work also. In this material world we are attached to perform good work. Not all. Those who are in the modes of goodness, they want to do some good work in the material estimation. And those who are in the modes of passion and ignorance, they do work, bad work, passionate work, work in ignorance. But those who are going to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, they have no need, either this good work or bad work.

Why? Now, either you enjoy the reaction of good work or bad work, your material bondage is there. Suppose by bad work I am born . . . because, according to work, there are different position of life. Janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrībhir edhamāna-madaḥ pumān (SB 1.8.26).

By good work we get good heritage, birth in a very good place, in a high family, in rich family, aristocratic family. And with bad work we may get our birth even in the animal kingdom or lower-graded family, poor family. These are Vedic estimation of good work and bad work. But for a person who is going to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, he has no need either for good work or bad work, because he has no need of bondage again.

Suppose I am born in a very aristocratic family, very rich family. That does not mean that I am getting free from the material miseries. Just like we are sitting here. Some of you are very well situated. Some of you coming from rich family and some of you may not be so rich—from middle-class family. But the temperature of this day is equally heating us.

There is no consideration that, "Here is a person who is coming from rich family, so the temperature should be lesser for him." No. Therefore, either we enjoy the reaction of good work, either we enjoy the reaction of bad work, we have to accept this material body. And as soon as we accept this material body, we have to undergo the material miseries.

But our whole program is . . . duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam. Lord Kṛṣṇa says, mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvataṁ nāpnuvanti (BG 8.15).

You'll find in the Tenth Chapter, the Lord says: "Anyone who comes to Me or gets Me," mām upetya, "gets Me . . ." We can get Kṛṣṇa in this life also, by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like you get into touch with government if you are engaged in the government service, similarly, if you get into the transcendental service of Kṛṣṇa, then you get into Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, mām upetya tu kaunteya. Kaunteya means Arjuna. "O the son of Kuntī, after attainment of Myself by a person, the . . ." What is the result? The result is: mām upetya tu kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvataṁ nāpnuvanti (BG 8.15): "He does not get any more to this place of miseries."

The whole thing is . . . now, jñānāgniḥ, knowledge, fire of knowledge. That fire of knowledge does not burn in our mind. You see? Therefore we accept this miserable life as happiness, because there is want of that knowledge. Just like a dog or a hog cannot understand what sort of miserable life he's passing on. He thinks that "I am all right. I am enjoying life very nicely." That is the . . . that is called covering influence of material energy.

A person who is suffering . . . just like you'll find in the Bowery Street there are so many drunkards lying on the street. Oh, they're also thinking, "Oh, we are enjoying life, enjoying life." But others, who are passing on cars, they are taking sympathy on him, "Oh, how miserably they are living." So that is the way of covering, covering influence of material nature. I am in miserable life, but I accept it, "Oh, I am very happy. I am very happy." This is called ignorance.

So when one is awakened to the full knowledge—he understands, "Oh, I am not happy. Oh, I want freedom. Oh, there is no freedom. I don't want to die, but there is death. I don't want to become old man. Oh, there is old age. I don't want diseases. Oh, there are diseases." These are the problems. But due to our ignorance we set aside all these big questions of human problems. We take a small problems as very important.

We take economic development as the most important thing, forgetting that how long I shall live here in this material world. So fifty or sixty or hundred years. So economic development or no economic development, my life will be finished. Suppose I develop my economic life in a very . . . I accumulate millions of dollars. But when I leave this body I'll leave everything. Then again I take my birth according to my reaction, either in poor family or old, I mean to say, rich family or even animal life. There is no guarantee.

This is knowledge. One has to acquire this knowledge. So unless this knowledge is awakened in our mind or in our consciousness, then whatever we are doing we must consider that we are being defeated, defeated by the influence of material nature. So here Kṛṣṇa says, jñānāgniḥ sarva-karmāṇi bhasmasāt kurute tathā. As soon as I understand my position, that I want freedom . . . we are trying to go to the moon planet, but because there is no freedom, oh, we are failing in every step, although we are advertising in the paper, "Now it is two years more, two years more." The Russians began to sell land in the moon planet, that "In 1965 we shall go there." But 1965 . . . now it is going to 1967. Now they are silent about selling land in moon planet.

The thing is that we want. That is our nature. We want to travel. People are coming from India to America, from America to India. So we want to travel freely. That is my right, because as spirit soul, there is a word . . . you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-ga. Sarva-ga means a spirit soul has the potency of going anywhere he likes. Anywhere he likes. There are . . . actually, those who have attained perfection in yoga . . . of course, that is not the highest perfection. Even persons, those who have attained perfection in yoga, they can travel in any planet.

And the perfection of yoga is indicated like this, that a yogī dies according to his own will. He is not, I mean to . . . pressed to leave this body just like ordinary people, they leave this body under the pressure of nature's law. So they get so much power. When they find that, "Now I shall leave this body," they fix up in which planet they will go, and they transfer their soul into that planet. That is the highest yogic perfection. And hardly you'll find such a yogī.

So my point is that the living entity has got the tendency to move freely. To move freely. There are living entities in other, higher planets which is called Siddhaloka. We get this information from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. In the Siddhaloka planet there are also living entities, or human being like us. But they are so powerful that, without any help of airplane or without any help of Sputnik, they can travel from one planet to another. We have got this information.

So our . . . when we are free from this material bondage we have no information how much powerful we are. We are satisfied here by manufacturing something, Sputnik, that we are very much satisfied that we have advanced so much in material science without knowing that without any help of this Sputnik and aeroplane, I can travel all planets. That potency I have got. Now, how that potency we can have? That is the thing we should culture. Jñānāgniḥ. And that can be achieved by jñāna, by knowledge.

The knowledge . . . for knowledge, everything is there. We have to accept that. Therefore, formerly people used to observe penances and austerity to attain perfection. Now here, in this age, oh, that . . . such austerities and penances are not possible. Are not possible. Because our life is very short, and we are always disturbed. Prāyeṇālpāyuṣaḥ kalau asmin yuge janāḥ. Kalau.

Kalau means this age, the age of quarrel and insufficiency. This age is called Kali. Kali means "The age of quarreling." We fight. On insignificant questions we fight. Therefore this is called Kali-yuga. So in this yuga we have got very short period of life.

That day I was reading from the Twelfth Chapter, er, Twelfth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam—perhaps some of you who were present—that in this age the life will be reduced from twenty to thirty years. We have to wait for that time. So gradually, things will deteriorate.

Therefore in the Kali-yuga, the yoga practice or the sacrifice or, I mean to say, very pompous worship of God, oh, that is not possible. People are . . . have got short life, they are always disturbed. They are disturbed with material disturbances, diseases, and they are unfortunate also. They are not very fortunate. So mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10).

Mandāḥ. They are very slow, and also unfortunate. This very word is used in the Bhāgavata. So therefore, in the Kali-yuga, if we want to get all this advantage of knowledge, then the only way is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. To become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That will help us. If that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is ablaze . . . that . . . bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19).

If we can surrender unto Kṛṣṇa and fully become Kṛṣṇa conscious—just the example Arjuna showed; he became Kṛṣṇa conscious—then our knowledge will be ablaze, and all the reaction of our good work or bad work will be turned into ashes. We shall be purified. Na hi jñānena sadṛśaṁ pavitram iha vidyate (BG 4.38).

The Lord says again, "There is nothing purified things in this material world except jñāna, or knowledge." What is that knowledge? That knowledge is that, that "I am part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. Therefore my business is to dovetail myself with the supreme consciousness. I am individual consciousness, and I shall be dovetailed with the supreme consciousness." That is jñāna.

This is the purest thing in this material world. Everything is contaminated here by some modes of material nature. Even the modes of material nature of goodness, that is also another kind of contamination. And what to speak of the modes of passion and ignorance. Even goodness . . . in goodness, one becomes enlightened. He becomes enlightened about his position, about this matter, about transcendental subject. But the defect is there, "Oh, now I have understood everything, I am all right." He wants to stay here. That means a first-class prisoner. And . . . he's offered all kinds of facilities in the prison house. Oh, he thinks, "Oh, now I am all right."

So even the modes of goodness, that is also a cause of our bondage. Therefore we have to transcend even the quality of goodness. Even the quality of goodness we have to transcend. That transcendental position is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The transcendental position is, also begins, ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am Brahman. I am not this matter." But that position is also unsettled. Because:

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

(BG 18.54)

Now, it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, in the brahma-bhūtaḥ stage . . . brahma-bhūtaḥ stage means self-realization of transcendental position that, "I am not this matter, I am spirit soul." This realization is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. We are Brahman. We are not matter. But some way or other we have been in contact with the māyā, matter.

Therefore, out of ignorance I am identifying myself with this material body. But actually, we are not matter. That we can understand. If I had been matter, then as soon as my, my dead body is there, oh, no matter can revive the life.

Now they have made so much scientific improvement, material scientific improvement. Now, suppose there is a body, dead body. Now, if the living force was something material, then bring something material and inject in that dead body and get him up again. No, that is not possible, because that spiritual thing is gone, and we have no control over the spiritual matt . . . spiritual thing. The spirit soul, that is a superior nature. We have been simply informed in Bhagavad-gītā, that is a superior nature. This is inferior nature. So this inferior nature is my bondage. I am not this inferior nature.

So Kṛṣṇa says, na hi jñānena sadṛśaṁ pavitram iha (BG 4.38). So as soon as we become, I mean to say, revived to our position, brahma-bhūtaḥ, then our first symptom will be prasannātmā. Prasannātmā—we shall be joyful. Prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati. (BG 18.54)

There will be no lamentation and no hankering. But the difficulty is that even if we rise up to the brahma-bhūtaḥ stage and if we do not take to the service of Kṛṣṇa, then there is possibility of falling down again. That information we have got. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ (SB 10.2.32).

Just like you may rise very high in the sky, but if you have no shelter there, if your aeroplane or Sputnik fails, then you again you fall down. Again you fall down. So if you rise up to that stage that you can attain some planet and take your rest there, so then there is no possibility of falling down. But so long you are in the sky, oh, there is every chance of falling down, every chance.

Similarly, simple understanding of brahma-bhūtaḥ stage will not help me unless I take shelter unto Kṛṣṇa. As soon as I get shelter unto Kṛṣṇa, as soon as I engage myself in the service of Kṛṣṇa, then there is no chance of falling down again into this material world. Because there is engagement. Our nature is such that we want some engagement. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59).

Just like a child. Child is playing all day and doing mischief in the house, and . . . so he cannot be stopped mischief-doing. He must be given some engagement. If he's given some engagement, some playthings, and if his attention is diverted there, then he'll stop mischief-making in the house. Otherwise, idle brain, devil's workshop. He will go on, go on.

So therefore we must have spiritual engagement. Simple understanding that, "I am spirit soul" will not help me. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). The brahma-bhūtaḥ stage, situation, is that, "I am not matter, I am spirit." That's all right. But we have to sustain the spirit. How you can sustain? You can sustain when there is spiritual engagement. Otherwise, it is not possible. Otherwise, I may continue for some time, but there is chance of falling down. Because we have got this information and a practical experience also great, great, I mean to say, yogīs and jñānīs, they again come.

We have some practical experience. Sometimes we find a person leaves all worldly engagements, leaves his family, gives up his family connection, becomes a renounced order, sannyāsī, and highest order, and then, after some time, he becomes engaged in opening hospitals and philanthropic work and in politics. We have seen it. Oh, why? You have renounced the world. Why you are hospital-making business? Hospital-making business is there, going on by the government, by the state. You are not meant for making hospitals. You have to make hospitals how people can get rid of this material body. That is spiritual activity.

We also require to open hospital. And what is that hospital? To cure this material disease, not this temporary disease. Again we may be attacked. The complete cure of material disea . . . that sort of hospital will be required. That hospital is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness Society. If we take treatment under this Kṛṣṇa consciousness Society, then we shall be cured of this material disease. Otherwise, we shall be again attacked with some kind of body. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22).

Just like we change our dresses from one dress to another, similarly, this body to another body, transmigration of the soul. But we are meant for now completely ceasing to have any material body in the next life. That should be our aim of life. That is called . . . that knowledge is called the purest knowledge. Na hi jñānena sadṛśaṁ pavitram iha . . . that knowledge is the purest knowledge.

Tat svayaṁ yoga-saṁsiddhaḥ kālena ātmani vindati (BG 4.38). Now, by becoming Kṛṣṇa consciousness, by this yoga, bhakti-yoga, you can be successful. Yoga-saṁsiddhaḥ. And, in due course of time, you'll understand that, "Yes, I am in right path. Oh." In due course of . . . immediately you may be very doubtful, "Whether I have accepted the right path or not?" But in kālena, in due course, in due course of time, if you continue the process . . .

Therefore in the next verse it is stated, śraddhāvān labhate jñānam (BG 4.39). Śraddhāvān, one who is faithful, he can take up this knowledge. Faithful. Those who are hesitating, those who have no faith, oh, it is very difficult for them. We have to accept. Because the method is standard, and it is given by the highest authority, Kṛṣṇa, so we must have such faith, "Oh, here is a thing, authoritative." Just like faith in any transaction we have. We must have some faith.

Now, suppose if I go to California from here, from New York, now, I have purchased the ticket by, going by air. Now, I have got this faith that, "This company, this aeroplane company, will take me to there." Maybe there may be some accident, but on faith I accept it, "Yes, it will take me there." When we go to the barber shop, on faith we stretch our neck and the razor is going on. He may at once put into the neck. But you keep the faith, "Yes, we have got the faith he will not do that."

So without faith, we cannot make progress. If in ordinary dealings we have to accept faithfully something . . . who knows that this aeroplane will take me to California? It may go down to hell, in the oil. The, in the bus there may be some accident. In the railway there may be some accident. There is possibility. But on faith we accept. So if we want to make progress we must have faith.

And where to keep our faith? In the authority. We are not going to book our ticket in an authorized . . . unauthorized company. Those who are acknowledged company, we purchase their ticket to go to California. Similarly, here we must have faith in Kṛṣṇa. If you have got this faith in Kṛṣṇa or Lord Jesus Christ or whatever you may have, full of . . . without faith, we cannot make progress. That is called faithful. And those who have no faith, they are called faithless. So here it is clearly stated, śraddhāvān labhate jñānam: "Those who are faithful, they can make progress in this knowledge of spiritual advancement." Tat-paraḥ saṁyatendriyaḥ.

And faith, how we become faithful? Now, saṁyata indriya. You have to control the senses. The whole thing is, our material existence is here because we want to gratify senses. That is the whole disease. So this faith of spiritual advancement can be, I mean to say, enhanced when we agree—at the same time, saṁyata indriya. Just like if you are taking treatment of a physician, you have faith, "All right." But the physician says: "Don't do this," and if you do this, then what kind of faith you have got?

Physician, when he treats some patient, he prescribes something, "don't do this" and "do this"—some "do-nots," some "do." Now, if I say, "My dear physician, I have got all faith in you. Very good. But I cannot follow your instruction. You say: 'Do not.' I do it," oh, how you can? How you are faithful? How you are faithful? So śraddhāvān labhate jñānaṁ tat-paraḥ saṁyatendriyaḥ. You have to follow the instruction with faith. Then you get. You have to follow the instruction with faith.

śraddhāvāl labhate jñānaṁ

tat-paraḥ saṁyatendriyaḥ

jñānaṁ labdhvā parāṁ śāntim

acireṇādhigacchati

(BG 4.39)

And when the formula is properly executed and he attains to the stage of knowledge, then his profit is, jñānaṁ labdhvā parāṁ śāntim: he gets complete peace, parāṁ śāntim, complete peace. Acireṇa. And that peace is very near to you. In the near future you'll have, if you faithfully follow. Very near, not very long. Acireṇa. Acireṇa means "very near." Very near. Śraddhāvān labhate jñānaṁ tat-paraḥ saṁyatendriyaḥ, jñānaṁ labdhvā. And when that stage you'll achieve, then you'll feel, "Oh, there is no happiest man in the world like me." That stage you will have.

Just like when the disease is cured, when disease is . . . just like you have got some boil, in the boil, in the hand or some part of your body, and the physician says: "It is . . . it has to be surgically operated," now, with faith you undergo the surgical operation, and during the operation it may seem very severe. You may be feeling very severely. But when the pusses are out and it is bandaged, oh, you'll feel relief—"Oh, my dear physician, you have done a great deal of progress. You are . . . (indistinct) . . ." But when the operation was going on, he was at hell.

So this is the thing. With faith, we have to accept the formula, and we have to execute it. But if you do it . . . because the authority is there. We are keeping our faith not to a third-class person. To the supreme authority, Kṛṣṇa. We have to understand first. Therefore we have discussed this point. Tad-vijñānārtham . . . tad viddhi praṇipātena (BG 4.34).

For attain, attainment of knowledge, we have to approach such a person where we can keep our faith. If we are faithless, if you keep . . . if we go somewhere where we cannot keep our faith . . . that is also necessary. We must find out such a person who is actually worth for keeping my faith. If we find out a third-class person and keep my faith, then there may be dangerous thing.

So here, Kṛṣṇa is the most authorized personality. Now, anyone who is actually Kṛṣṇa conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you can accept him as the same as Kṛṣṇa. Because a person who is fully in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is the bona fide representative of Kṛṣṇa. He's the bona fide representative of Kṛṣṇa.

So keeping faith on Kṛṣṇa or to His bona fide representative is the same thing. So that śraddhāvān, if you follow, saṁyatendriya, with controlled senses, then your result is guaranteed, and you'll feel it.

How you'll feel it? Just like you are hungry and if you are given some food, foodstuff and you eat it, and as you eat it, you feel that "Yes, I am feeling satisfaction," so you'll feel it. You won't have to ask anybody that, "Whether I am making progress or not?" You yourself will feel it. Acireṇa. Acireṇa śāntim adhi . . . you will feel full peace, acireṇa, very soon.

Then ajñaś cāśraddadhānaś ca saṁśayātmā vinaśyati. And those who are faithless or hesitating, oh, they have no chance. They have no chance. Ajñaś ca. That hesitation is due to also ignorance. Ajñaś ca aśraddadhānaḥ. And ignorant and faithless. Saṁśayātmā, hesitating. Vinaśyati: "He is hopeless." Nāyaṁ lokaḥ asti na paraḥ na sukhaṁ saṁśayātmanaḥ (BG 4.40): "Anyone who is hesitating in accepting this principle of knowledge, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, for him," nāyaṁ loko 'sti, "not even this material world will be happy. And what to speak of his next life." If he has no faith, then even in this material world he'll be unhappy.

The material world is unhappy. It is all already miserable. It will be more miserable. He'll feel always disturbed, miserable, faithless. So for a faithless, the situation is very precarious.

So here is an authoritative version in the authoritative book, Bhagavad-gītā. And spoken by the Lord Himself, Śrī Kṛṣṇa. And if we accept faithfully, with confidence that, "Here is an authority . . ." Just the same way that when I am purchasing a ticket from a recognized company . . . just like I am keeping my money in some bank, thousands of dollars. Why? With faith. With faith. They have created some faith. Otherwise, thousands and thousands of dollars are coming in the bank. Why? There is faith. Who knows? The bank may fail or may not pay. Because the money is out of my hand, now they may not pay it. It may be. But because I have faith, I am putting my money there. So faith is required.

Where? Authority. Here is authority. Why are you putting our money in the bank? Because you have got faith. We have confidence that, "This bank will not fail." Similarly, if we can keep our faith in an ordinary bank or a traveling agent, can we not keep our faith Kṛṣṇa, who is accepted as the Supreme Personality of Godhead by all other big authorities, even by Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Lord Caitanya and all these?

So we have to follow the footprints of great authorities. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). He'll be situat . . . just like we also follow others. Just like if I put some money in a bank, I see, "So many people are keeping their money. So I may also keep." So if Kṛṣṇa has been accepted as the supreme authority by so many big, big men, why should we not keep our faith in Kṛṣṇa? Or Jesus Christ? That's all right. We must keep our faith, and faithfully we shall discharge our duties. And if we follow that principle, the result is guaranteed.

Thank you very much. Any question, you can ask.

Why the door is closed?

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Come here. Eh?

Guest: I have got to know the different books before I come here . . . (indistinct) . . . when I come in here there is a sound and movement and odour . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. This transcendental sound is a process of cleansing our mind. This is also transcendental sound. This is not ordinary sound. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). The whole thing is due to our unclean mind. So this transcendental sound is the process of cleaning the mouth, and in clean . . . in clean mind, we can accept transcendental subject. Otherwise it is sometimes disturbing. So this . . .

Guest: Cleanse the mind.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes?

Devotee: In other words, you don't want to negate the senses?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee: In other words, there's no negation of the senses?

Prabhupāda: No negation?

Devotee: Of the senses.

Prabhupāda: Senses. Yes. Here . . . senses . . . we have got our transcendental senses. Now it is covered. Just like in our diseased condition, the same hand, the same nose, same ear are there, but we feel something extraordinary. "Oh, my . . . there is headache. Oh, my hand is burning, burning. Oh!" But when the disease is cured, then you don't feel that sensation. So senses we have got. That is our spiritual senses. So we have to revive our spiritual senses.

We are not senseless. As spirit soul, we have got our original senses, but that senses are now covered by this material contamination. Just like my senses, my hand burns during fever, due to the fever. But when the fever is moved, removed, when I get free from the fever attack, then I feel nice. Similarly, we have got our senses; when we are freed from this material contamination, then we have got our proper use of the sense and enjoyment. We have to wait for that purpose. And if our . . . if we, in our diseased condition, we go on satisfying the senses, then the disease will be aggravated.

For the present, we have to control the senses, saṁyatendriya, just to get us cured from this material disease. That is the way. You have not to kill your senses. That is not given. Because your hand is burning due to some disease, oh, if the physician says: "All right, cut off this hand," oh, that is not treatment. The treatment is that sensation, that burning sensation, should be cured. Hand should live as it is.

So we are . . . we have got all desires, we have got all senses, spiritually. And we have to revive that. And that Kṛṣṇa consciousness will help us to revive our original status of senses. And that original status of senses, that sense of enjoyment, will be spiritual enjoyment. That will give us real . . . sukham atyantikaṁ yat atīndriya-grāhyam (BG 6.21).

You'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā that happiness, happiness perceived by the senses, is beyond these material senses.

And in the Nārada-bhakti-sūtra also you'll find that hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). When our senses are freed from all designation . . . just like due to fever I am feeling some extra sensation in my hand. That is a designation. When that designation is freed, then I come to my normal state.

Similarly, at the present moment, due to this covering of material body, I have got different designative sensation. Designative sensation. I am feeling I am, I am just using my senses under some designation. So we have to get free from this designation. That is the whole spiritual process. You haven't got to kill your senses. That will help you when you are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

(break) . . . which are beyond the topics. Just like we also talk something on some subject matter, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the highest knowledge. So we have heard so many things about this. If there is any doubt about that, I mean to say, statement you can ask me. That was my point. Otherwise, any question . . .

Devotee: That's what I . . . that's what I was talking about.

Prabhupāda: Eh? So you can ask any question on the topics which you have already finished. (end)