690305 - Lecture - Day after Sri Gaura-Purnima - Hawaii

Lectures by Date, 1969

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this lecture

690305LE-HAWAII - March 05, 1969 - 75:47 Minutes

Prabhupāda: (sings)

pada-kamalaṁ śrī-gurūn vaiṣṇavāṁś ca

śrī-rūpaṁ sāgrajātaṁ saha-gaṇa-raghunāthānvitaṁ taṁ sa-jīvam

sādvaitaṁ sāvadhūtaṁ parijana-sahitaṁ kṛṣṇa-caitanya-devaṁ

śrī-rādhā-kṛṣṇa-pādān saha-gaṇa-lalitā-śrī-viśākhānvitāṁś ca

nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale

śrīmate bhaktisiddhānta-sarasvatīti nāmine

śrī-vārṣabhānavī-devī-dayitāya kṛpābdhaye

kṛṣṇa-sambandha-vijñāna-dāyine prabhave namaḥ

mādhuryojjvala-premāḍhya-śrī-rūpānuga-bhaktida-

śrī-gaura-karuṇā-śakti-vigrahāya namo 'stu te

namas te gaura-vāṇī-śrī-mūrtaye dīna-tāriṇe

rūpānuga-viruddhāpasiddhānta-dhvānta-hāriṇe

śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda

śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsadi-gaura-bhakta vṛnda

Chant:

bhaja śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda

śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsadi-gaura-bhakta vṛnda

hare kṛṣṇa hare kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa hare hare

hare rāma hare rāma rāma rāma hare hare

(prema-dhvani) All glories to the assembled devotees. All glories to the assembled devotees. All glories to the assembled devotees. Thank you very much. (devotees offer obeisances)

Prabhupāda: Today is the second day of Lord Caitanya's birth ceremony. The Lord has appeared yesterday, 4th March. Not exactly 4th March. It is called, according to Vedic calendar, Gaura-pūrṇimā, the full-moon day of the month of Phālguna. Phālguna means up to 15th March. From 15th February to 14th March is the month of Phālguna according to Bengali calendar.

And on the month of Phālguna, the full-moon day, the full-moon night is the appearance, or tithi, or occasion, for Lord Caitanya. Lord Caitanya appeared on the phālguni pūrṇimā. Pūrṇimā means full moon, and phālguni means the month which is called Phālguna, which is calculated from 15th February to 14th March.

So after the appearance of Lord Caitanya, there was great ceremony, all the inhabitants of Navadvīpa. His father, Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu's father, was not very rich man but was very respectable brahmin. The brahmin community, especially in those days, five hundred years ago, the brahmin community . . . as a community they were not very rich, because they did not care for material opulence. That is the specific quality of brahmins.

There are four classes of men all over the world.

(break) . . . people, they are interested for success of this human form of life. They are called brahmin. And the next class of men, they are interested for political power, next important class. First important class men is called who are seeking success of the human form of life, and the next class, they are seeking success to become very rich within this material world by political power. Another, next class, is trying to be successful by material opulence, by earning money, the mercantile community. First class, second class, third class. They are third class.

And the fourth-class men, they are called śūdras. That means they have no other ambition than to fill up their belly only. That's all. They have no intelligence to become brahmin, neither to become kṣatriya, administrator, or to occupy political powers; neither they have energy to become very rich businessmen or industrialists. Therefore they are called fourth-class men.

So that division is there all over the world. Either you name differently, but these four classes of men are there, either in India or in America or Hawaii or Japan or anywhere. If you divide all people, they will . . . you will find one class of men, they are not interested with this opulence of material happiness. They are seeking—philosophers, learned scholars, scientists, religionists, reformers. Their business is different.

So naturally, the brahmin class of men, they are not very rich.

(baby starts crying) Oh. What happened?

(break) . . . are always, because they do not endeavor for material opulence, apparently they look very poor. But actually, they are rich in knowledge. But people do not care for knowledge, at the present moment at least. They care for material opulence. They think that this life is meant for highest grade of sense gratification. That is the general thinking. In this city, any city you go, they are struggling very hard.

Everyone is trying to get very rich, to get monetary power, so that they can satisfy their senses. Just like I hear from my students that this island, Hawaii, is meant for tourists. Tourists means they are all rich class of men. They come here to spend money for sense gratification. That is the way of civilization, the modern civilization: "Earn money at any cost. At the risk of all advancement of life, enjoy."

So this is not new thing, but at the present moment, in this age, this mentality has increased very improportionately. So when I came to the compound, to the yard of this house, I was very happy to hear the chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, because in this great city of sense gratification, at least in one corner there is the vibration of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.

Today, of course, we find that our this small endeavor to preach this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is not very successful. But it has got the potency if the workers try for it. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that, "If people do not come to hear this philosophy, don't be discouraged. You sit down in a room and try to preach. The four walls will hear you. Don't be disappointed."

So there is no cause of disappointment. But this is very . . . today is very important day, Lord Caitanya's birthday ceremony. At least in India, specially in Nabadwip, there is very, very great ceremony today. Thousands and millions of people are gathering to observe this important ceremony.

So ceremony . . . apart from ceremonial function, let us try to understand the philosophy of Lord Caitanya. So Lord Caitanya thought it—not thought it; this is a fact—that this sort of life, seeking material happiness . . . material happiness means sense gratification. That's all. Actually, according to Bhagavad-gītā—not according to Bhagavad-gītā, that is a fact according to any authoritative statement—sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriyaṁ grāhyam (BG 6.21).

Śrī Kṛṣṇa says that sukham ātyantikam. Ātyantikam means the super, superhappiness, ātyantikam; means that which you cannot excel more. That is the final point. That sort of happiness is not possible to achieve . . .

Happiness . . . first of all, you must understand, happiness means sense gratification, happiness. You can understand it very easily. If I get some nice foodstuff, because I satisfy my taste, palate, I feel happiness, "Oh, very nice food I am eating." Similarly, you take any of your sense organs, when it is satisfied according to the sense object, it is called happiness. So the sum and substance of happiness is to satisfy the senses. But Kṛṣṇa says that sukham ātyantikam: the supermost happiness can be achieved not by these senses, but atīndriya. Atīndriya means transcendental senses.

Just like at the present moment our senses are gross material senses. But there is another sense . . . not another sense; this sense. This is covered sense. Suppose you will try . . . you will be able to understand. Now, I want to touch some soft place to enjoy the sense of this hand, touch sense. But if the hand is covered with gloves, I cannot enjoy that sense so nicely. You can easily understand. The sense is there, but if it is artificially covered, then even the facility is there, I cannot enjoy the sense perfectly. Similarly, we have got our senses, but our senses are now covered by this material body.

Kṛṣṇa gives us indication in the Bhagavad-gītā that . . . that super-happiness can be achieved by that sense, not this covered sense. Covered sense, you cannot enjoy the happiness superbly. Sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriyaṁ grāhyam (BG 6.21). Atīndriya means transcendental, not this covered sense. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness means . . . we have got consciousness. Everyone is conscious, but that consciousness is covered consciousness. So we are trying to clear the consciousness without any cover, without any color.

Just like there is water, pure water. Take sea water: it is very clear. But if you take clear water and if you color it, then it is colored water; it is not pure water. Or if it is not distilled, if you add some chemical, sugar or salt, then the taste is different. That is not the real taste of water. Just like if you thirsty, if you want water, if I give you some adulterated water, you are not satisfied.

If you get clear water, pure water, then your thirst is quenched, "Oh, I am satisfied." Because the taste is there in the clear water, not in the colored water. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says sukham ātyantikaṁ yat (BG 6.21). That superhappiness, super–sense gratification, can be achieved by your transcendental sense, not by these covered sense.

So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to clear that covered sense, or this colored consciousness, or adulterated consciousness. Then everything will be there. You cannot kill consciousness. That is not possible. The Buddha philosophy is to stop consciousness, nirvāṇa. According to Buddha's philosophy, this consciousness is production by combination of this matter. This body is combination of matter: earth, water, fire, air, ether and, according to Bhagavad-gītā, further, mind, intelligence, ego. This is combination.

They are very finely analyzed by the sāṅkhya philosophy system, by Vedic system, into twenty-four elements. And according to some, twenty-five, and according to some, twenty-six. According to our Vaiṣṇava philosophy, twenty-six. According to Māyāvāda philosophy, this is twenty-five. And according to impersonal philosophy, or void philosophy, it is twenty-four. So originally, it is eight.

So in this way . . . Buddha philosophy means that this whole existence of our body or our self is the combination of matter. That is the way of thinking of modern scientists also, that this body is a combination of matter. Under Darwin's theory also, like that, "Organic matter, inorganic matter." They are studying evolution of this matter, organic matter. But actually that is not the fact. The fact is that we, individual soul, that is the real fact. And that individual soul is the seed, and upon that seed, this body has developed.

According to our Vedic understanding, the body develops on the seed. This is very practical. Why we have got different bodies, different types of bodies? Because the condition of the seed is different. The seed is the spirit soul, and by material contact it is covered by finer body—intelligence, mind and ego. And according to the quality of that ego, we develop different kinds of this material gross body.

Therefore somebody has developed the body in the modes of goodness . . . because material nature is divided into three qualities: goodness, passion and ignorance. Somebody has developed body in the modes of passion. Somebody has developed body in the modes of ignorance. But the root is the spirit soul. And the finer cover is desire - ego, intelligence, mind. And the gross cover is this body.

So Buddha philosophy simply takes account of this gross body. They do not take account of the mind, because as soon as they go to the platform of mind, then immediately the question will be "Whose mind? Whose intelligence?" Then you have to come to the spirit soul. But the people for whom this Buddha philosophy was preached, they are not very intelligent class of men. Therefore Lord Buddha did not give them the information of the subtle body, or the soul. They are unable. Why they were unable? They were gross materialists.

The gross materialists, they are animal-killers, gross materialists. That . . . these animal-killers, according to Bhāgavata also, they cannot understand finer things. Those who are animal-killers and animal-eaters, they cannot understand finer philosophical matter. Their brain is gross. Therefore they are much inclined to mechanical way of life. Machine. Machine is gross. You see? We therefore forbid our students not to be meat-eaters, because by refraining yourself from meat-eating, you will have . . . you will develop finer . . . not only refraining from meat-eating. That is one of the condition. There are other conditions also, but this is one of the condition.

Parīkṣit Mahārāja said: "This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is understandable by liberated class of men." Liberated class means above the brahmins. "But those who are killer of the animals . . ." The killer of the animals are two kinds: one, gross killer, killing cows, goats, chickens, so many, gross killer. Another killer is soul-killer. Soul-killer means those who do not take any care for the soul. They are taking care of this gross body.

So there are different kinds of philosophies in the world, but Lord Caitanya's philosophy is the superphilosophy. Superphilosophy means . . . why superphilosophy? Just like Lord Buddha's philosophy is . . . there is no acknowledgement of the Supreme Personality of Godhead or any God. His philosophy is this . . . the body our material . . . this present condition, is a combination of matter. So you dismantle the matter by meditation. You disperse the matter.

Let the earth go to the earth. Let the water go to the water. Let the fire go to the fire. Let this ether go to the ether, the air . . . because this is combination of earth, water, fire, so disperse it. When go to the total water, total earth, total air, then . . . just like you prepare a doll. You take little earth. You take little water. You dry it in the air. Then you, I mean to say, burn it in the fire, and it becomes a doll. You see? That means you take all the help of all these ingredients, and it appears.

Similarly, this body has appeared in that way, by combination. So you . . . if the doll is broken, then, in due course of time, it mixes again: "Dust thou art, dust thou beist." Again mixes with the water, earth, air. There is no . . . so as soon as it is dismantled and dispersed, there is no more consciousness, or the feelings of happiness or distress.

Because we are all concerned with the feelings of consciousness, of happiness and distress. Everyone is embarrassed. Everyone is trying that, "I shall become happy in this way." So that means he is feeling distress. So according to Lord Buddha's philosophy, these feelings of happiness, distress, is due to this combination of matter. So you dismantle this matter, material, there will be no more distress, and nirvāṇa—finish. Nirvāṇa means finish.

But, I mean to say, further development. Śaṅkara, he says: "No, matter is not all. This is false. Matter has grown on the platform of spirit." Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā.

And the Vaiṣṇava ācārya said: "Yes, spirit is the basic principle. Matter is false. That's all right. But that spirit is not void. There is spiritual construction. As in the material world there is material construction, in the spiritual world there is spiritual construction." So that spiritual construction is not known to other philosophers than the Vaiṣṇava philosophers.

So the Lord Caitanya's philosophy—that is the greatest contribution to the world—that these living entities who are hankering after happiness by different process. By material process, by philosophical process, by mental concoction or mental process they are trying, and Lord Kṛṣṇa also said—they are trying—but that happiness is available when your senses or consciousness are pure. The same philosophy is also Lord Caitanya's philosophy. He says that jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa-dāsa (CC Madhya 20.108-109).

What is the pure consciousness? Kṛṣṇa said that happiness can be achieved in pure consciousness, or when your senses are transcendental. He gave hint. Not only hint, He practically suggested also that, "You simply surrender unto Me."

So Lord Caitanya said the same thing. Lord Kṛṣṇa said . . . as the Supreme Lord, He commanded—He has got the commanding power because He is the Supreme God—that, "You surrender unto Me." Just like some superior, the teacher or father or king, says: "You must do it." But there is force. The State says: "You must do it," but if you do not do it, then there is force. Just like this draft board. They are demanding that, "You must join. If you don't join, there will be force, and you will be forcibly joined after that."

So here, in the Kṛṣṇa's order, because He is Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, there is no force. That voluntary. He says that, "This is life—you surrender unto Me." But He could force Arjuna to surrender, or anybody, because He is Supreme Lord. But that force He does not apply, because He has given us little independence. Therefore, if He forces, then His gift of independence is misused from His side. We are misusing our that gift of independence, but for that reason, Kṛṣṇa cannot withdraw your independence.

Just like you are independent citizen. You are . . . if somebody misuses that independence, he becomes a criminal, but still, the independence continues. You are criminal. You are punished. Again you are set free. That means you are given again independence. But again if you misuse, then again you are put into prison.

Similarly, if the state cannot withdraw your independence, then what is the meaning of this independent country? How God can withdraw the independence He has given to you? That He will not withdraw. It is up to you to use your independence properly. That proper use of independence is to surrender unto . . .

We are suffering, we are manufacturing so many philosophical ways, but actual position is—that is the statement of Bhagavad-gītā—that we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, God. We are not working according to our particular duty. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body. It has got a particular duty: to serve the whole body. When it is unable to do it—it is painful—the physician or the surgeon says that, "This finger should be amputated. Otherwise it will create disturbance to the whole body."

Similarly, we are all part and parcel of the supreme whole, but not surrendering unto Him, misusing our independence, we are giving pain to the Supreme. Therefore He comes that, "You surrender. Don't give Me pain. You just abide by My order. That will give Me pleasure. You will be happy." That state of consciousness, to abide by the order of Kṛṣṇa, is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's all.

So Kṛṣṇa comes personally to canvass that "This is not your proper order of life. You are misusing your independence for sense gratification and wandering through various types of transmigration of bodies—sometimes human body, sometimes dog's body, sometimes cat's body, sometimes demigod's body, sometimes rich body, sometimes poor body. So you stop this business," Kṛṣṇa says. Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66).

"You have manufactured so many duties. That duties means you are manufacturing so many bodies. That's all."

Why you have got different types of bodies? We have manufactured it. God has given us facility. I wanted to become such and such. He has given us facilities, "All right, you become such and such." If I want to become a tiger, God will give me all the facilities to become a tiger. He will give me facilities, paws and nails and teeth, so that immediately I can capture any animal, and with the instruments which He has provided within my body, I can immediately scratch it into pieces and eat.

Similarly, you will find . . . you see the cranes. They have got big beaks. Why? Because they have to catch fish from within the water, so the beak must be very long. So there is facility. The hog has different mouth, because he has to eat stool. So a different kind of body.

So these bodies means we have manufactured according to our different mentality. Kṛṣṇa says that, "You stop all this business. Simply you are migrating, or transmigrating, from one body to another or one planet to another. That will not make you happy." Sarva-dharmān: "You just surrender unto Me. Because you are meant . . . your original creation is meant for serving Me." Just like this body.

When this body was made in the womb of my mother, it was just like a small pea, and from that pea, different holes came out, then hand came out, leg came out, the fingers came out. Why this finger was created? Because I require the service of the fingers. Suppose if I want to press something, if there was no nail, then I cannot press. It is so nicely manufactured. By my energy, by my desire, and nature supplying me ingredient, it is manufactured.

So you are manufacturing different bodies, but our real sense is covered. So that transcendental sense can be discovered when we give up this material sense gratificatory process by creating different kinds of bodies.

So that is the profit of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So the people of modern civilization, they have no information about this, how this body is being created. That simply busy with the present problem. That's all. Present problem is not problem. We are eternal. Our problem is eternal.

Therefore the modern age, the people are not very intelligent. They are advertising themselves that they are very much advanced. Actually, they are fools. And "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." The whole world is full of ignorant. Therefore we are trying to preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness—it is our folly. You see? It is our folly, "The cry in the wilderness."

But we cannot stop this business. You see? They may think that, "Why you are, nonsense people, you have given up everything, you are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa? You are all fools. You are not enjoying life." They may say like that, but our . . . because we have nothing to do with them, our business is to satisfy the Supreme. That is my real sense gratification. I have got my senses. As soon as I use it for my satisfaction, it is material. And as soon as I use them for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction, it is spiritual. That's all.

Try to understand the distinction between material and spiritual. Material means I have to act. Acting means I have to act with my senses, with my desires, with my thinking, feeling, willing, so many things, because that is original. You cannot stop your thinking, feeling, willing, working, because that is your original nature. You are living entity. If you have no thinking, feeling, willing, desire or working, then what is the difference between you and the stone? You are not stone. Some philosopher are trying to make you stone, but that is not possible. You cannot become stone.

So the whole process is to rectify, to purify your senses. And the purified sense means instead of using the senses for this so-called material happiness, one has to utilize the senses for happiness of Kṛṣṇa. That is purified sense. The example, the vivid example, is Arjuna. Arjuna was not willing to fight to satisfy his senses. He thought that "If I do not kill my brother or nephews or my grandfather or my teacher, the other side, that will make me happy. If they are killed, then where is my happiness?"

This is material calculation, because he was giving more importance to the material body, what is his brother, what is his grandfather or teacher. He was seeing the material. Just like what is our calculation? I am thinking somebody my friend and another body as my enemy. Why? Because I make distinction on the bodily platform. I say: "American? Oh, they are my friends. Russians? They are my enemies." Why? What is the platform of this distinction? The platform is body. Because one has got the Russian body by some way or other, another bod . . . has got American body, I am making distinction. So this distinction is on the material platform. And the spiritual platform, there is no such distinction because it is simply spirit.

vidyā-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

śuni caiva śvapāke ca

paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ

(BG 5.18)

One who is paṇḍita—paṇḍita means learned—he does not make any distinction between a learned brahmin or a dog or a cat or a cow, because he sees the spirit.

So we have come to that spiritual platform. We have to give up our this sense gratification process, and that is the teaching of Lord Caitanya. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu practically demonstrated how to adopt that life of pure sense gratification, or pure utilization of the senses. He said, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa-dāsa (CC Madhya 20.108).

Jīvera svarūpa haya means the real nature of the living entity is eternal servitor, eternal servant of Lord Kṛṣṇa. The same thing what Kṛṣṇa taught in the Bhagavad-gītā, Caitanya Mahāprabhu taught also in His . . . this Bhāgavata-dharma teaching, and practically He showed how to do it. That is His specially.

Lord Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66):

"You give up all your material engagements. Simply just surrender unto Me. I shall give you all protection from all reaction of your past sinful activities." Because we are creating our next body in this life. So if we become sinful, or if we act only sinful activities, then we get next body a very lower class of body, even as the germ in the stool. You see? There are so many varieties of bodies. And if we act nicely, piously, then we get better body. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ.

Those who are acting, those who are situated on the platform of goodness, they are promoting their existential status in higher planets. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasaḥ (BG 14.18):

And those who are in the modes of passion, they will remain here. And jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ: and those who are very addicted to all abominable habits, they are clearing their way to hellish life. So to abominable life is these four principles. That we are trying to avoid.

So Lord Caitanya's teaching, the sum and substance of His teaching, is to understand that we are eternal servant of God, and if we immediately engage our energy to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, then immediately we are transferred to the spiritual platform. And if we stick to that activities on the spiritual platform, then, as assured by Lord Kṛṣṇa, then, after leaving this body, we go back to Kṛṣṇa, Vṛndāvana, go back to Godhead, back to home. That is our peaceful . . . eternal, peaceful life. We should endeavor for that.

Thank you very much. (devotees offer obeisances) (break)

Prabhupāda: Where is that girl? (break) Hmm?

Girl devotee: Why does Kṛṣṇa have an external energy?

Prabhupāda: Why not? First of all say why not. What is your objection?

Girl devotee: Well, if He is pure, everything about Him is . . .

Prabhupāda: He is pure. He is pure, always pure. Suppose you are very nice girl, nice, but because you pass some urine or stool, does it mean that you are bad?

Girl devotee: No.

Prabhupāda: Does it mean? Then? The urine may be bad, the stool may be bad, but because you passed urine or stool, you are not bad. Is it clear? Kṛṣṇa has got this external energy. That does not make Kṛṣṇa bad. Try to understand it.

If somebody asks, "Oh, you are so nice girl, nice . . . why you are passing stool and urine?" is that any argument? I am just speaking on the argument's sake. Is that any good argument that, "Because we are very good, we shall not pass stool and urine"? Or "Because you are very good, therefore your urine and stool also will be very good"? Is that any argument?

So similarly, if Kṛṣṇa has created this external energy, that is for His satisfaction. That's all. But why should you take? If you are . . . if we are confident about Kṛṣṇa's goodness, why should we bother about Kṛṣṇa's stool and urine? Why not directly Kṛṣṇa? Let Kṛṣṇa pass any amount of stool and urine. We have nothing to do with that. So let there be external energy.

We have nothing to do with that. You cannot say: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is all-good. Therefore His urine and stool . . ." I am . . . just try to understand. His urine is also good. That is a different thing. I mean to say, if this is an argument that, "Because Kṛṣṇa is good, He should not pass urine and stool," that is no argument. It is not . . .

External energy is not affecting Kṛṣṇa. The urine and stool is affecting . . . there are some worms, they are very much attracted with the stool. You see? They are also creatures of Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, this material nature, external energy of Kṛṣṇa, is Kṛṣṇa's. There is . . . undoubtedly, it is Kṛṣṇa's. But that worm class of living entities, they are attracted by it. You see? So we should not be attracted. That should be our . . . because we are not going to be worms of the stool. Kṛṣṇa, if He cannot . . .

There are many arguments. If you ask question, "Why the government has created this criminal department?" is that valid question? The jail department is criminal department, prison, where citizens are put into jail and given trouble. So if the prisoner says: "Why the American government has created this prison department?" is that valid question? The American government may create prison departments, but why you are interested there? Why you are going there? The real position is: because you are criminal, therefore government has to create such department.

So this material energy is created by Kṛṣṇa because there are some living entities who are not to satisfy Kṛṣṇa but satisfy their senses. For them, it is there, "All right. Your field of activities, here." So it is not Kṛṣṇa's desire. It is fulfill your desire. Because in the spiritual world, Kṛṣṇa is supreme, but if you cannot tolerate Kṛṣṇa's sup . . . even here there are so many: "Why there should be God? I am God. I am God." Are you God?

But you have got this mean mentality that "I am God." You cannot qualify yourself. You do not know what is God, what is the meaning of God. You are claiming "God." Because you do not want to serve God, that is your mentality. So for these last, lowest class of men, there is external energy.

(break) . . . class of men, they will not abide by the laws of the State. They'll repeatedly break it. Therefore, "All right, you go there and do whatever you like." That is not government's intention, that people go there and indulge in unrestricted gambling and there . . . that Mr. Bhaṭṭācārya told me that sometimes some rich man goes there with all his wealth and stake it, and when he's lost, he fires himself, and the gambling managers puts him down and throws him in the . . . there is no law for such killing or such homicide or anything. Do whatever you like. You see? So there is a class of men.

Just like a liquor shop. Liquor shop is licensed by the government. Does it mean the government is encouraging that, "You become drunkard"? But government is giving this license because there is a class of men who must drink, and they will violate all . . . say: "All right. Let them have it."

Similarly, there are two kinds of living entities: nitya-baddha, nitya-mukta—eternally liberated and eternally conditioned. You see? So for the conditioned . . . they will never agree to abide by God. Therefore for them, this material world, the external energy: "All right, you do whatever you like. You do according to . . ." But still, there is canvassing work. Oh, God sends His son to canvass, "Oh, this is not your right engagement. Please come back to home, back to Godhead."

Kṛṣṇa comes. God Himself comes. He sends His devotees. He comes as a devotee just to again reclaim them. But they are so stubborn, they will not give up this habit. Even in their so-called spiritual cultivation they are thinking that, "I am God. I am the mover of the sun. I am the mover of the moon. I am the supreme," in this way. That is the disease. You see?

So as for the diseased person, there is a hospital, there is operation is going on, so many severe things are going on, similarly, for the criminal there is prison department. So it is not the government's desire that there should be hospital or prison house. They can save so much money. But the people want it. A class of men, third-class men, they want this.

They want to be diseased. They want to be criminals. So there must be some department for them. Just like Monte Carlo. So this is a facility for the living entities, for the slight independence which has been given by God to them. That's all. So material energy is there not by Kṛṣṇa's own will. You want it, therefore there is. Is that clear? Yes. (break)

There will be no more. Is that possible? How many people are coming to become Kṛṣṇa conscious? You see? So therefore it must remain. Why do you grudge? But you be careful. (chuckles) That's all. That is your business. Any other question?

(break)

Devotee: . . . withdraw that independence, can we request Kṛṣṇa to force us to surrender to Him, due to our conditioning?

Prabhupāda: Yes, you can request Him. And He sometimes forces. He puts you in such circumstances that you have no other way than to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Yes. That is special favor. That is special favor. Yes.

(pause) My spiritual master wanted me to preach, but I did not like it, but he forced me. Yes. That is my practical experience.

I had no desire to accept the sannyāsa order and preach, but my spiritual master wanted it. I am not very much inclined, but he forced me. That is also done. That is special favor. When he forced me, at that time I thought that, "What is this? What . . .? I am committing some mistake, or what is that?" I was puzzled. But a little after, I could understand that it is the greatest favor shown to me. You see?

So when Kṛṣṇa forces somebody to surrender, that is a great favor. But generally, He does not do so. But He does so to a person who is very sincere to Kṛṣṇa's service, but at the same time he has got slight desire for material enjoyment. In that case He does, that "This foolish person does not know that material facility will never make him happy, and he is sincerely seeking My favor. So he is foolish. Therefore whatever resource, little resource he has got for material enjoyment, break it. Then he will have no other alternative than to surrender unto Me."

That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, er, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: yasyāham anughṛnāmi hariṣye tad-dhanaṁ sanaiḥ. (SB 10.88.8)

Kṛṣṇa says that "If I do somebody special favor, then I make him poverty-stricken. I take away all his means of sense enjoyment." You see? That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Because here in this material world everyone is trying to be happy by earning more money, by business, by service, by this way or that way.

But in special cases, Kṛṣṇa makes his business or service unsuccessful. Do you like that? (laughs) At that time he has no other alternative than to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. You see? But sometimes, when we are unsuccessful in our business attempt or earning attempt, we become sorry that, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is so cruel upon me that I could not trust in this." But that is His favor, special favor. You should understand like that. Yes. (end)