710103 - Lecture SB 06.01.56-62 - Surat

Lectures by Date, 1971

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this lecture

710103SB-SURAT - January 03, 1971 - 49:33 Minutes

Haṁsadūta: The following lecture is recorded in the morning January 3rd . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: (aside) Just sprinkle, not individual. Sprinkle. Minimize time. Don't waste time.

So the point is here that Ajāmila was so qualified just as a Brāhmiṇ, perfect Brāhmiṇ, born of a Brāhmiṇ father and educated, qualified, and acquired the qualities. All the qualities are mentioned, that śruta-sampannaḥ. Śruta-sampannaḥ means well studied in Vedas. That is a Brāhmiṇ's qualification. Veda-pāṭhād bhaved vipraḥ. Vipra, Brāhmiṇ, (laughs) without any knowledge of the Vedas, that is not a Brāhmiṇ.

So he was actually a Brāhmiṇ, śruta-sampannaḥ. And after . . . simply reading of Vedas as a scholar is useless. Just like foreign Western scholar . . .

(aside) Now stop.

One must practically apply the knowledge, not like armchair politician or armchair Vedāntist, smoking cigarette and reading Vedānta. This kind of study of Vedas is useless. Now, we have seen so many sannyāsīs, so-called sannyāsīs, talking on Vedānta and smoking at the same time. You see? So Ajāmila was not like that. He was a scholar in the Vedic literature. Ayaṁ hi śruta-sampannaḥ śīla-vṛtta-guṇālayaḥ (SB 6.1.56-57). And he was very well behaved and reservoir of all good qualities. Guṇālayaḥ. Dhṛta-vrataḥ, and avowed to follow the regulative principles.

This point we have already discussed, that the most important point is that even one is such qualified, there is chance of falldown as Ajāmila. Because in the beginning Ajāmila was introduced, the story of Ajāmila was introduced:

kānyakubje dvijaḥ kaścid

dāsī-patir ajāmilaḥ

nāmnā naṣṭa-sadācāro

dāsyāḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ

(SB 6.1.21)

Dāsyā. Dāsyā means prostitute. In India it is the old custom that a prostitute quarter is maintained for the lusty people. Those who are not satisfied with one wife, they should not pollute the society, but they should go to the prostitutes. So that means illicit sex. Sex without the, hmm . . . I mean to say, intention for begetting a nice child, that is illicit sex.

There are two kinds of illic . . . avaidha-strī-saṅga. Avaidha. Avaidha means against the vidhi, against the regulation. Putra-piṇḍa. Putrārthe kriyate bhāryā. Bhāryā means wife. Wife is accepted simply for begetting sons. Therefore it is called dharma-patnī. Dharma-patnī.

A son is required . . . why one should accept a wife for begetting son? Putra-piṇḍa-prayojanam. According to Vedic dharma the piṇḍa-dāna, offering piṇḍa, oblations to the forefather, putra is pun-nāmno narakād yasmāt trāyate iti putraḥ. Well, everything is derivative, and it has got sound substance in each and every word of Sanskrit. Who is putra? There is a naraka, hell, hell, and if somebody by his sinful action is sent to that hell, the putra will deliver him.

Pun-nāmno narakād yasmāt trāyate. That pun-nāmna, that pu . . . pun-nāmno narakāt, the first word of that naraka, pu, and trāyate, tra, if combined together, it becomes putra. So putra has meaning. Putra is not a product of sexual intercourse. No. Putra means "who can deliver the forefather, if by chance he is fallen in the hellish condition." Therefore putra-piṇḍa-prayojanam.

What is putra-piṇḍa? Caitanya Mahāprabhu also showed us the example. He went to Gayā Pradesh to offer piṇḍa for his forefathers. This is necessary still. In Gayā there is Viṣṇu temple, and in the Viṣṇu temple the oblation is offered at the lotus feet of the . . . there are many practical cases that one's father or mother became ghost after death, and after offering oblations at the lotus feet of Viṣṇu at Gayā, he was delivered. There are many cases.

So actual fact is Viṣṇu worship. That is the ultimate goal of Vedic civilization. But they do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). Their attention is diverted in so many demigods. The greatest disservice to the society, that "Here is another god, here . . ." Not only manufacturing a man-god, but they are advising that "Any god you can worship." No. Viṣṇu. Tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ (Ṛg Veda 1.22.20). This is Vedic mantra.

Those who are sūrayaḥ, means advanced . . . sūrayaḥ means . . . sūrayaḥ and asūrayaḥ. Asūrayaḥ means demon. Viṣṇu-bhakto bhaved suraḥ: "Those who are devotees of Lord Viṣṇu they are sura." Asuras tad-viparyayaḥ: "And those who are not Viṣṇu bhaktas, they are asuras." Just like Rāvaṇa was very great devotee of Lord Śiva; still, he was a asura. Hiraṇyakaśipu, he was a great devotee of Lord Brahmā, but he was considered asura. So anyone who is not devotee of Lord Viṣṇu, he is asura. That is the verdict. Asuras tad-viparyayaḥ.

And this piṇḍa-dāna is offered oblations to the Viṣṇu. So if any man becomes a Vaiṣṇava, he is offering oblations to Viṣṇu every moment, so his forefathers are delivered without any trouble. Without any trouble. If one's son becomes a Vaiṣṇava in the family, he can deliver fourteen generations, up and down. That is the verdict. Not only verdict, this is the version in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

When Prahlāda Mahārāja, offered all benediction, but he declined, "My dear Lord, I have tried to worship Your lotus feet not for any material benediction. And we are born of a father too much materialistic. Naturally I have got the tendency for enjoy material prosperity. And You are so able, Supreme Personality of God . . . you can give me any kind of material prosperity. So if You induce me in that way, 'Take benediction, whatever you like,' naturally I will be inclined. But do not put me into such illusion." That was the reply. He could ask any benefit . . .

(aside) On the side.

He could ask any material benediction from Lord Nṛsiṁha-deva, but this is not pure devotee. They were pure devotees. By worshiping Lord, one should not ask for any material benediction. Why they should? That is not the proper . . . that is not pure devotion. Pure devotion means anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11), no material desire, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam (CC Madhya 19.167), without any coverage of fruitive activities and speculative knowledge.

Because the real purpose of successful life is to invoke your dormant love for Kṛṣṇa. That is the perfection of life. Caitanya Mahāprabhu . . . premā pum-artho mahān (Caitanya-manjusa). That is the highest perfection. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That is first-class religion, pursuing which one can develop his dormant love for God. That is first-class religion.

So Ajāmila was being trained up. He was sufficiently educated in Vedic literature, his character was very nice, and he was offering respects to the elderly persons, spiritual master. He was offering oblations daily to the fire, sacrifice. Everything is described. But all these qualities became nullified simply for illicit sex life. Just see how it is dangerous. How it is dangerous. Therefore it is the greatest pillar of sinful life, illicit sex life.

Here it is clearly said, stated, that . . . Ajāmila's qualities were stated at the same time. In the beginning it is stated that kānyakubje dvijaḥ kaścid dāsī-patir ajāmilaḥ (SB 6.1.21). Dāsī-pati. He was attached to a prostitute, dāsī-pati. A prostitute is called dāsī, and wife is called dharma-patnī. These are distinction. There are distinction of dresses also, according to Vedic way of life. The prostitute would separate the hair here, not in the middle. Yes, what is called?

Guest (1): Part.

Prabhupāda: That is . . . a prostitute should, I mean to say, comb her hair in that way so that people can understand she is prostitute and she is chaste woman. And this sindūra, the red, red lead, these were the signs. A vidhavā, one who has no husband, they should wear without any skirt, sārī without any skirt, vidhavā, without any bangles, so people will understand, "This woman is without husband," "This woman is prostitute," "This woman is chaste woman," "This woman is not married," "This woman's husband is away from home." So different dresses. Proṣita-bhartṛkā. Proṣita-bhartṛkā. The name was . . . a woman whose husband is away from home, she should not dress very nicely. She should not comb her hair. That is the system. There are so many systems.

So anyway, this, this Brāhmin, although so much qualified, and because he kept one prostitute it is clearly stated, naṣṭa-sadācāra: "All his good qualities became void." All his good qualities. Naṣṭa-sadācāra. Why naṣṭa-sadācāra? Dāsyāḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ: "Simply by association with a prostitute." Dāsyāḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ.

This Bhāgavatam was written five thousand years ago, and this story . . . Śukadeva Gosvāmī said: "I am speaking an old story." That means this incident of Ajāmila was not less than fifty thousand years ago. At that time, five thousand years ago, Śukadeva Gosvāmī is narrating "A very old story." And very old sto . . . at least forty thousand, fifty thousand years old. So just see how Vedic civilization was planned from the very . . . time immemorial. Simply by association of illicit sex life so many qualities became null and void. Now he is describing that:

ekadāsau vanaṁ yātaḥ

pitṛ-sandeśakṛd dvijaḥ

ādāya tata āvṛttaḥ

phala-puṣpa-samit-kuśān

(SB 6.1.58)

For offering daily worship fruits, flowers and samit, the kuśa, grass, everything is required for . . . his father ordered him, "Just bring all these things." He went in the forest to collect all these things, and while coming back he saw one śūdra was in embrace with a prostitute, and he happened to pass that way and he stood there and saw, attracted. Young man becomes attracted.

Therefore these things should be very secretly done. Everyone knows that a husband, wife, have sex intercourse. But not like cats and dogs. That is human civilization. Not that on the road the boy or the girl is embracing, kissing, and having sex life. This is animal life. This is animal life. Simple they are educated to prostitution.

Now, at the present moment, father, mother, sends the daughter for prostitution: "Find out a suitable man. Attract a suitable man. Don't marry abruptly. Just test this man, this man, this man, this man, this man. Then marry." So father-mother, they are teaching daughters prostitution. This is the condition of the society. How there can be peace? And they are after peace. They are making conference—"peace." By conference and passing resolution there can be peace? And the result is Naxalites, Communists. Huh?

Guest (1): Naxalism.

Prabhupāda: Heh?

Guest (1): Naxalism.

Prabhupāda: Naxalite-ism. So all over the world. It is not only in India—all over the world. There cannot be peace unless you reform the whole social structure, and that can be done only by this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Only by this movement. That's a fact, and it is being done.

So how this man fell down, it is said that ekadāsau . . . dadarśa kāminam. Kāmina, kāminam. Kāminam means lusty. The lusty people, they do like that. They do not care for society, do not care for elderly persons, do not care that "People will not like this." In the road, in the street, in the sea beach—anywhere—in the cinema. These things are very advertised in cinema nowadays to attract people. You see? Formerly in India this was not, but they are gradually introducing all this nonsense to make people more lusty. And to become lusty means that he is going to hell. He is going to . . . mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam (SB 5.5.2).

If you want to open the door of your liberation, then you should engage yourself in serving the mahat, the devotees, a pure devotee. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. Tamo-dvāram means the door for hellish condition of life. And if you want that, then you mix with yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. Those who are too much attached to women, you associate with them. These things are there in the śāstras.

And practically it is said, dadarśa kāminaṁ kañcic chūdraṁ saha bhujiṣyayā, pītvā ca madhu maireyam (SB 6.1.59). Not only he was engaged in embracing a prostitute, but the prostitute was drunk. Her eyes were moving like madhu. Wine is made from madhu, sugar, and still, all spirit is made from molasses. This is old system. This is very intoxicating. Rectified spirits, you know, doctor may know, this is made from molasses. Because we were in the chemical line we know. So here it is also said that spirit made, liquor made, whisky made from madhu . . . pītvā ca madhu-maireyam. Maireyam (SB 6.1.59).

Another process of manufacturing wine is, from a flower, is called mahuyā, mahuyā flower. Perhaps you know. The jungle people, the kirātas, they take this mahuyā flower from the jungle, and they soak it in water, and when it is fermented, it becomes wine. So such kind of . . . everything is there. If anyone wants to manufacture wine, that is also there in Bhāgavatam. You see? (laughter) Because it is perfect knowledge, all knowledge you can get.

So pītvā ca. Pītvā means drinking. Madhu-maireyam. Pītvā ca madhu, mada āghūrṇita-netrayā. When one becomes a drunkard, his eyes are not set up in right position. These things he saw. Mattayā viślathan-nīvyā vyapetaṁ nirapatrapam. And because both of them were drunkard, their, I mean to say, dhotī and sārīs were slackened. Now it has become a fashion to slacken, but this is not very good. To make more attractive for sex indulgence, of course, this has become a fashion, but it is not very good.

Then mattayā viślathan-nīvyā vyapetaṁ nirapatrapam. And because they were so rascal, they had no, I mean to say, bashfulness. They were freely . . . nirapatrapam. Nirapatrapa means one who does not care for any public criticism. Nirapatrapam, krīḍantam anugāyantaṁ hasantam anayāntike. And was laughing and smiling and singing and enjoying. And this boy, Ajāmila, when he was passing on that road he saw everything. Dṛṣṭvā tāṁ kāma-liptena bāhunā parirambhitām. The boy, when he saw that they are engaged in such lusty affairs, bāhunā, with arms, parirambhitām . . . parirambhitām means embracing one another.

dṛṣṭvā tāṁ kāma-liptena

bāhunā parirambhitām

jagāma hṛc-chaya-vaśaṁ

sahasaiva vimohitaḥ

(SB 6.1.61)

Although he was so much trained up, still, vimohita, forcibly he was attracted to this thing. Forcibly. Because young man.

So these things are being shown regularly in the cinema. What character will be formed of the young men? By seeing once, this Ajāmila, he fell down so much, and our boys and girls are seeing these things every day in the cinema. So what kind of character you can expect from them? These are the instruction to be taken from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. But generally people go to hear Bhāgavatam to the professional reciters when the rāsa-līlā of Kṛṣṇa is described, because they think, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is doing this, embracing a nice girl. So this is very nice." Not this part of Bhāgavatam is interesting.

That part of Bhāgavatam is very interesting, and people gather in ten thousands to hear rāsa-līlā. And the reciter will make very monetary profit. This is going on, Bhāgavatam. Nobody is interested to hear the incidences of Ajāmila. They at once go to Kṛṣṇa. Although Kṛṣṇa's rāsa-līlā is not this lusty affair—that is a different thing—but people, because they want such thing, they are very much addicted to Bhāgavata reading, or Bhāgavata recitation when rāsa-līlā is described.

So the rāsa-līlā should be strictly . . . Caitanya, according to Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction—we follow that—this rāsa-līlā chapter is not for ordinary person. They are meant for liberated persons, not for ordinary persons. Therefore they should not be . . . this rāsa-līlā description should not be made amongst ordinary people. Those who are advanced devotee, those who are liberated from material contamination, they should try to understand what is rāsa-līlā. That is described in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that one should not even imagine the rāsa-līlā of Kṛṣṇa. But it is meant when one is advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is for them only.

So dṛṣṭvā tāṁ kāma-liptena bāhunā parirambhitām. Kāma-liptena, engaged in such lusty affairs, embracing one another by the arms, jagāma hṛc-chaya-vaśaṁ sahasaiva vimohitaḥ, all his education and training become bewildered, and he become attracted and stunned by the scene. Stambhayann ātmanātmānaṁ yāvat sattvaṁ yathā-śrutam.

stambhayann ātmanātmānaṁ

yāvat sattvaṁ yathā-śrutam

na śaśāka samādhātuṁ

mano madana-vepitam

(SB 6.1.62)

Madana-vepitam. Madana, this Cupid. When Cupid attacks somebody or one who . . . when one becomes, I mean to say, too much attracted by lust, all his education, all his culture, all his knowledge becomes stunned. That is the . . . therefore one has to avoid this society. Tyaja durjana-saṁsargam. The Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, he advises us, tyaja durjana-saṁsargam: "Always avoid durjana-saṁsargam, association with durjana." Durjana means sense gratifying persons, those who are engaged only in sense gratification, durjana. And sujana means those who are engaged in for spiritual enlightenment. They are called sujana. That is the instruction everywhere.

Therefore, from the very beginning of life a boy is sent to gurukula for good association. Gurukula means . . . still there are many gurukulas in India, a spiritual master training some boys in spiritual life. That has also become polluted. So many things . . . this is Kali-yuga.

Therefore the only way of deliverance from this bewilderment is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa . . . he became attracted. Na śaśāka samādhātuṁ mano madana-vepitam (SB 6.1.62). He is personally seeing the sex affairs. How he can be checked from the sex appetite? It is clearly said, na śaśāka: "He was unable," na śaśāka samādhātum, "to control himself." Controlling. (break)

Therefore these things are strictly prohibited for public seeing. These things . . . everyone knows that when there is man and woman or husband and wife there is . . . but not to be publicly exhibited. According to Hindu system—we have seen it—the wives go to the husband at night and nobody could see. Everyone . . . when everyone has gone, all elderly people has gone to sleep, then the wife goes. And he (she) comes early in the morning so that nobody can see when she has come out from the husband. This was the system.

And at daytime no wife was allowed to see the husband, especially young wife. So this sex affair, according to Vedic civilization, is strictly regulated. It is not that cats' and dogs' sex life. Because if you allow the sex life like cats and dogs, then the society will be cats and dogs. So these things are to be taken lesson from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. All right.

Devotee: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (devotees offer obeisances) (break)

Guest (1): (indistinct) . . . in the Rāmāyaṇa it told that how we should hear actual life, and Rāmāyaṇa told actual that, in that grantha, how we should live. And if you are saying Rāma to be asura, how we are . . .

Prabhupāda: Rāma was asura?

Guest (1): No, you told that.

Prabhupāda: Rāvaṇa was asura.

Devotees: Rāvaṇa.

Prabhupāda: (laughter) Oh, you have become asura. You do not hear properly? You have become asura. It is God saved you that you questioned. Otherwise you would have gone like asura. You do attentively hear. Don't speak like asura.

Guest (1): . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. That happens, you see. Not hearing attentively, sometimes wrong conclusion is made. Yes.

Guest (2): Proper question, there is answer.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest (2): If you are questioned properly, there is answer.

Prabhupāda: There is answer.

Devotee: You said . . . if these pastimes of rāsa-līlā are only for liberated souls, and yet in Kṛṣṇa book, in Nectar of Devotion, there are some descriptions of pastimes of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa . . .

Prabhupāda: That is very cautiously mentioned. Yes. It had to be given because it is part of Kṛṣṇa's pastimes. We cannot avoid it. Therefore it has to be heard from right person. He will be cautious to present the things. Anuśṛṇuyāt. The injunction is one should hear from a person bona fide, anuśṛṇuyāt, not directly. Not directly.

(aside) Give that note to Bhagubhai.

Devotee (1): In this age it's practically impossible. We cannot avoid this kind of association.

Prabhupāda: Therefore kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva. There is no other alternative. You have to take this purificatory process, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. There is no other way. You cannot reform the society. That is not possible. You cannot train them in the Vedic way. Everything is lost now. Manda-bhāgyāḥ. They are all unfortunate, manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10), and disturbed by the social con . . . yes.

Devotee (2): It says in the Bhagavad-gītā that when . . . if one performs devotional service, then his result is never lost. Then how was it possible for Ajāmila to lose all his devotional service to Viṣṇu by associating with a prostitute?

Prabhupāda: What is that question? I do not follow.

Devotee (2): It says in the Bhagavad-gītā that if one makes a little bit of endeavor on the path of devotional service . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (2): . . . then the result is never lost. So then how was it possible for Ajāmila to lose his devotional . . .?

Prabhupāda: He was not in devotional service.

Devotee (2): He was not serving Viṣṇu?

Prabhupāda: He was trained . . . Viṣṇu worship is not always devotional service. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was presented by Rāmānanda Rāya about Viṣṇu worship, He said: "No, no. This is not the right description. You go further." You'll find in the . . . yes. "You go further." Eho bāhya āge kaha āra (CC Madhya 8.59). Because unless they understand what Viṣṇu . . . simple official Viṣṇu worship will not help. One has to become real devotee. Anyābhilāṣitā . . .

Generally goes to Viṣṇu for asking something, or any other demigod, they go. People are very much addicted to material enjoyment. Either he goes to śuddha-bhakti . . . this bhakti means śuddha-bhakti. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). That, that is transcendental platform. There are viddha-bhakti. Viddha-bhakti. So one who goes to worship Viṣṇu for some material bene . . . just like Dhruva Mahārāja went. That was bhakti, but that was viddha-bhakti, adulterated. Dhruva Mahārāja went to gain his father's kingdom. That is arthārthī. Ārtaḥ arthārthī.

Catur-vidhā bhajante mām (BG 7.16). Four kinds of men goes to worship Viṣṇu: ārta, those who are distressed; arthārthī, those who are in need of money or material benefit; jijñāsu, those who are inquisitive; and jñānī—these four kinds. Out of these, jijñāsu and jñānī are better than the ārta and arthārthī, the distressed and need of money. So even the jñānī and jijñāsu, they are not on the pure devotional service, because pure devotional service is beyond jñāna also.

Jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam (CC Madhya 19.167). Just like gopīs, they did not try to understand Kṛṣṇa by jñāna, whether Kṛṣṇa is Bhagavān. No. They simply automatically developed—not automatically; by their previous good activities—acute love for Kṛṣṇa. They never tried to understand Kṛṣṇa, whether He is God.

When Uddhava tried to preach before them about jñāna they did not hear it very attentively. They simply absorbed in thought of Kṛṣṇa. That is the perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Never mind Kṛṣṇa worship, but one loves Kṛṣṇa. And that is wanted. That is spontaneous. Real love means that. A lover does not consider what he is, the opposite party, what he is, whether he is rich man, whether he is educated man or educated.

There is no such consideration. Love is spontaneous. That is an example also. Similarly, love for Kṛṣṇa, that should be simply spontaneous, without any consideration. Āśliṣya vā pāda-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu mām (CC Antya 20.47): "Either You trample down under Your feet or embrace me, still, I love You." That is love, that kind of love.

Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa . . .

Haṁsadūta: Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: If someone is engaged in devotional service and he commits an offense at the feet of a pure devotee, whatever he has done up until that time is not lost? Or he, in his next life he gets . . .?

Prabhupāda: No, if he thinks that he has committed offense, he should ask pardon, excuse, that's all.

Haṁsadūta: What if he just goes on and he never asks pardon? Is he finished in . . .?

Prabhupāda: Then that he should. That he should. That he should.

Haṁsadūta: He should ask?

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Please excuse me. I have done . . ."

Haṁsadūta: But suppose he doesn't ask, and he just . . .

Prabhupāda: That is obstinacy. Why should he not? If he thinks that he has committed offense, why should he not ask excuse?

Haṁsadūta: Well, he may not think so. He may just find himself falling down.

Prabhupāda: Then fallen down, what can be done? To save from this fallen down she should ask or he should ask: "Please excuse me. I have done . . ." That's all. Finish it. And a devotee is always prepared to excuse. Why should he not ask?

Haṁsadūta: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. One should be very cautious, and if it happens so, then he should ask to be excused. That's all. Yes.

Devotee (2): That's the cause of all falldown, committing offenses at the feet of a pure devotee?

Prabhupāda: There are many causes. One should be cautious, that's all. Therefore one should hear, one should be cautious, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa will help. We should be cautious, but if something is done unwillingly, that is excused by Kṛṣṇa. That is another thing.

We are offending in every moment, but when it is within our consciousness, we should take some precaution that, "This should not be done. If I have done, ask excuse." That's all. Finish.

Devotee (3): And also in the Bhāgavatam that many times even great devotees like Akrūra and so many great devotees of Kṛṣṇa offered prayers to Kṛṣṇa to please forgive him for all his sinful activities. So then this can be taken as prayers too.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Prayer, prayer, daily prayers, offering, means like that. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ (Ṣaḍ-gosvāmy-aṣṭaka). Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka, by avowed determination that "I shall chant so many times, I offer this prayer . . ." One should be very active and enthusiastic. Life should be so molded that only devotional service, no other thought, no other offense, nothing.

We have so many engagements, so many opportunities. We can execute devotional service without any disturbance. And one may commit offense once—not that to repeat that offense.

Unwillingly committing offense is excused, but willingly committing, that is very dangerous. So why one should commit offense willingly? There is no meaning. Unwillingly or unconsciously one may commit. That is excused.

(break) . . . in Bhāgavata, bhajatām, sa-pāda-mūlaṁ bhajatām. There is a verse like that. That is excused. Otherwise, how Kṛṣṇa says, api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30)? Unwillingly, by his practice, he has committed. That is excused. Not that "Because I have become a Vaiṣṇava, because I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, therefore I can do any kind of offense. It will be counteracted." This is the greatest offense.

Sometimes it happens, but that is very grievous offense. On the strength of becoming Vaiṣṇava and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and committing offense at the same time, that is the greatest offense. That should be avoided especially. But unintentionally, unconsciously, something is done—that is excused. And if we understand that, "We have . . . I have committed this offense," immediately steps should be taken. That's all.

(break) . . . think tomorrow there will be no meeting, eh? Tomorrow, early in the morning, at four, we are going to Bombay. But you can hold this meeting and discuss this Bhāgavatam, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Guest (3): But there is no possibility of staying here, no? (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Eh?

(break) . . . create vitality. Utsāha. Therefore it is called utsāhād dhairyāt tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt, niścayāt (Upadeśāmṛta 3). Utsāha requires enthusiasm, vital force.

Guest (3): Devotion also.

Prabhupāda: Hmm? All right.

Guest (3): (indistinct) . . . service to mankind is service to God. Remember.

Devotee (1): Is that true, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Devotee (1): That service to mankind is service God?

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense.

Guest (3): Doctor. For doctor, I mean.

Prabhupāda: Well, that is another thing. When doctor gives service to man, he does not give service to the man; he gives service to the money. (laughter)

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, hearing from Haṁsadūta's question, sometimes we might experience that our Godbrothers have fallen away, and when they have fallen away they (are) really fallen and lost their spirit and they fall away.

Prabhupāda: Best thing is that after this meeting you should stand together and fall down, "Prabhu, please excuse me."

Yamunā: Oh, jaya!

Prabhupāda: Yes. Is that all right?

Devotee (1): What is going to happen to these who are left and they are . . . commit offenses against you?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee (1): They have left and yet they are committing offenses against you and against Kṛṣṇa, because they have become deranged.

Prabhupāda: Therefore the falling down, obeisances, is there. If there is any offense, by offering obeisances it is excused.

Yamunā: All glories to Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: And amongst yourself you should also offer obeisances, "Prabhu, please excuse this offense."

Yamunā: And then take remedial measures.

Prabhupāda: Then . . . then finished. (laughter) That is system. One now . . .

Everyone should fall down. What is that? (break)

Haṁsadūta: This marks the end of the lectures of Surat, India in the house of Adubhai Patel. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Tomorrow is January 4th, 1971 we will go to Bombay and from Bombay we are going to Allahabad . . . (indistinct) . . . Prabhupada is going to Calcutta. (end)