710813 - Lecture Festival Janmastami - London

Lectures by Date, 1971

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

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710813L2-LONDON - August 13, 1971 - 66:39 Minutes

Devotee: London lecture number 7 evening - August 13. Janmāṣṭamī evening - London Temple, 1971.

Prabhupāda:

. . . svayaṁ rūpaḥ kadā mahyaṁdadāti sva-padāntikam

he kṛṣṇa karuṇā-sindho dīna-bandho jagat-pate

gopeśa gopikā-kānta rādhā-kānta namo 'stu te

tapta-kāñcana-gaurāṅgi rādhe vṛndāvaneśvari

vṛṣabhānu-sute devi praṇamāmi hari-priye

So actually, according to astronomical calculation, today is Janmāṣṭamī. But our gosvāmīs note that if in the Janmāṣṭamī, in the morning sunrise there is saptamī, then we don't observe that day as Janmāṣṭamī. Out of twenty-four hours, the morning sunrise, if there is still continuation of saptamī, then we take it as aṣṭamī. The next day the whole day is not aṣṭamī, but in the morning, there is the sunrise, there is aṣṭamī. Very minute conclusion. Then we accept that as Janmāṣṭamī. Therefore the Janmāṣṭamī fasting will be observed tomorrow from morning—from sunrise to 12 o'clock at night. You all know it.

So before Lord's birth, the demigods came invisibly at the house of Kaṁsa when the mother and father of Kṛṣṇa were kept prisoners. That was the condition. When Kaṁsa heard an omen that, "You are taking very jubilantly your sister to her husband's house, but you do not know—you are so fool—that she is the source of your death. The eighth child born of your sister will kill you . . ." So demons, when there is a question of personal interest, the demon forgets any relative—it doesn't matter whether sister, father, mother. So he was ready to kill Devakī immediately, his sister.

So Vasudeva somehow or other saved her, because it is the duty of the husband to give all protection to the wife. Vedic marriage is not a farce; it is a spiritual obligation. The husband gives the wife all protection, all subsistence, and the wife serves the husband throughout the life so that the husband may feel always comfortable. This is the relationship between husband and wife.

But in this age, Kali-yuga, it is stated—they are also mentioned in the Bhāgavata—that dam-patye ratim eva hi: the relationship between husband and wife will continue only on sex life. That is very degraded. And actually we have seen many cases, as soon as there is some discrepancies in the sex life, there is separation. But according to Vedic scriptures there is no question of separation. Husband and wife must live throughout the life together, in distress and happiness, in the same condition.

So it was the duty of Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa's father. Although he was newly married, immediately he took responsibility: "She is married to me. I give protection to my new wife." So he made a compromise, "My dear brother-in-law, I quite understand that your sister is the source of your . . . (indistinct) . . . but after all, your sister is not killing you—her sons, one of her sons. It may be that she may not have any sons, so why you are dealing beforehand?

There are so many, that in future someone will come as a son and he may kill you. So . . . and even though if you think that her son, any one of her sons, will kill you, I'll bring all my sons born of her before you as soon as he is born, and you may do whatever you like." He thought, "By this time, Kaṁsa may change his mind."

In this way Devakī, mother of Kṛṣṇa, was saved from the imminent danger of being killed by her brother. But the brother was so rascal that Vasudeva regularly brought each and every child before Kaṁsa, and he killed them. So Kṛṣṇa is the eighth child, and He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

One may argue that, "How God takes birth?" There are many . . . (indistinct) . . . and the answer is, "Why God will not take birth?" If God is all-powerful, why this power should be denied to Him that, "You cannot take birth"? Is God under the direction of any human being, that some philosophers think that God cannot take birth, therefore God will be obliged by his conception that He will not take birth? No. God is omnipotent, all-powerful—He can take birth as many times as He likes and wherever He likes. That is God's position: full independence, in whatever form He likes.

advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam

ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca

vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau

(Bs. 5.33)

So God's appearance, birth, disappearance—all these things—it is very difficult to understand simply by academic study of the Vedas. The academic . . . the academicians, they cannot understand Veda. They are described in the Bhagavad-gītā as veda-vāda-ratāḥ pārtha (BG 2.42). Veda-vāda-ratāḥ. They are simply addicted to the Veda, but actually they cannot understand it. Nānyad astīti vādinaḥ (BG 2.42). They simply say: "We don't believe anything except the Vedas."

But what you understand about the Vedas? If you actually know Vedas, then you'll know Kṛṣṇa. If you do not know Kṛṣṇa, (chuckles) then you have no knowledge of Vedas. Because Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15): by studies of Vedas He is to be understood. Unless one understands Kṛṣṇa, there is no use of studying Vedas; he does not get any profit—he simply wastes his time: śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). These are the śāstric . . .

On the other hand, Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9): "My janma . . ." Kṛṣṇa never says janma-mṛtyu. Janma karma. If somebody thinks that Kṛṣṇa took birth and He died also, that is mistake. That is the conclusion of the less-intelligent class of men. That is not a fact. Kṛṣṇa never dies. Why Kṛṣṇa? We also—part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa—we also never die. Death takes place, the change of body. But Kṛṣṇa has no material body; therefore even death, the death of the body, that is also not in Kṛṣṇa.

His body is sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. His body is completely spiritual, eternal, sat, cit, full of bliss, and ānanda, bliss, ānanda. And cit means knowledge. Kṛṣṇa's body is full of knowledge, eternal and full of bliss. Our body is just the opposite—material body. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's body cannot be compared with our body. If we do so, then we are rascals. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā:

avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā

mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam

(BG 9.11)

"Because I appeared just like a human being, mānuṣīṁ, then fools, mūḍhā . . ." This exact word is used. Mūḍhā means rascal, fool. So:

avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā

mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam

paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto

(BG 9.11)

"Because they have no deep knowledge about Me, therefore they consider like that."

So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very nice. One who takes to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he has the opportunity of understanding Kṛṣṇa in fact. Janma karma me divyam. And one who knows Him in fact—His activities, His appearance . . . Kṛṣṇa appeared, and He had many activities. Those who have read our book Kṛṣṇa, they know how He was always active—always active. So God is not impersonal, neither inactive. He is always active. Any living entity cannot be inactive. Inactive is dead stone, not alive.

In the Vedas it is said that He is the chief living entity. We are all living entities. Just like in this meeting in our small temple, you are considering me that I am the chief. Outside, the Queen is the chief living entity, and outside England somebody else—outside this planet, somebody else—outside this universe, somebody else. But the ultimate chief living entity is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7): "My dear Arjuna, beyond Me there is no superior personality or superior truth."

So what is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa Himself, that is also being prayed by the demigods who have come to offer their obeisances to Lord Kṛṣṇa while He was supposed to be in the womb of Devakī. I say purposely, "He was supposed to be." Devakī was feeling that, "I have got a baby within my abdomen," but actually, when Kṛṣṇa took His birth, He did not took His birth from the abdomen of Devakī. He appeared before Devakī in four-handed Viṣṇu form. We shall discuss this more.

And Devakī—of course, she is mother of Kṛṣṇa—she is far advanced devotee. In her previous life she undergone very severe penance and austerity for Devakī and Vasudeva, and they took benediction from God that He would appear as their child. Their demand was that, "We want a child like You." Then Kṛṣṇa said, "Like Me, where is another child? Then I'll have to become your child." So this was the promise by Kṛṣṇa in her previous life, so He kept that promise.

And the demigods, they are praying, satya-vrataṁ satya-paraṁ satyaṁ (SB 10.2.26). Satya-vrataṁ. God, Kṛṣṇa, is always truthful. He is always truthful. He is not a liar. Just like we sometimes become . . . speak lies. That is the one of the qualification of the conditioned souls—cheating. We conditioned souls, we have got a propensity to cheat others even in our ordinary dealings. Even in family affairs, we sometimes think that "I am hiding this matter from my wife," and the wife is thinking that, "I am hiding this matter . . ." That is a tendency. But in our relationship with Kṛṣṇa that is not, there is no such cheating.

When Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that man-manā bhava mad-bhakto (BG 18.65) . . . er:

sarva-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁśaraṇaṁ vraja

ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi . . .

(BG 18.66)

So when Kṛṣṇa says that, "You surrender unto Me and I give you protection from all resultant action of sinful life," so nobody should think otherwise that, "Kṛṣṇa may cheat us. Kṛṣṇa is speaking—that's all right—but as soon as I surrender, He may cheat." No. Therefore His name is satya-vrataṁ. Another satya-vrataṁ: "An old vow is always truthful."

In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said by the Lord:

yadā yadā hi dharmasya

glānir bhavati bhārata

tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham

(BG 4.7)

"Whenever there is discrepancies in the religious life of the people in general, I appear." So Kṛṣṇa is appearing because at that time, due to the reign of Kaṁsa, the whole world was surcharged with sinful activities. Not by the people—by the king himself. And the demigods, headed by Brahmā, approached the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and He said that He was coming very soon in the family of the Yadus. So in order to keep that promise He was within the womb of Devakī. Satya-vrataṁ.

The next qualification says satyaṁ-paraṁ. Paraṁ means "supreme." There are many relative truths, but the Absolute Truth is Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, satyaṁ-paraṁ. The Bhāgavata, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, begins with this word satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi. The Vyāsadeva, the author of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, he is offering his obeisances to the Supreme Truth, Kṛṣṇa. In the beginning he writes, oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya (SB 1.1.1). Satyaṁ paraṁ, the Absolute Truth, is Kṛṣṇa.

In the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa Himself says that ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo (BG 10.8): "I am the origin of everything." So if there is any truth within this material world, or anywhere, He is the origin, satyaṁ paraṁ. He is the Absolute Truth. According to our Vaiṣṇava philosophy, we do not take anything untruth. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they say that this world is mithyā, untruth; but we do not say like that. We say: "No, it is not untruth—it is truth."

Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad-gītā this material world, which is made of primarily eight elements and then diffused in twenty-four elements, they are defined manifestations of Kṛṣṇa's energy. Just like a fire remains in one place and it diffuses its heat and light, and so many things are happening through heat and light, similarly Kṛṣṇa, although He is staying in one place as person, He can distribute Himself by His different energies.

Just like the sun: sun is staying in a localized place—everyone can see. When you see sun, you see that it is lying in one corner of the sky—very insignificant portion—but still, by the heat and light of the sun all these planets and all the production in the planets, they are coming out. That's a scientific fact, everyone knows that as soon as there will be absence of heat and light, then it will be difficult to maintain ourselves. The heat and light is coming from the sun, but the heat and light, the origin of heat and light, is the sun globe, and within the sun globe there is the sun-god also.

That we get information from śāstra. Vivasvān, the name of that gentleman, the chief controlling deity in the sun globe, the name is also there in the śāstra: imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1), Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa not only says that: "I spoke this philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness"—Bhagavad-gītā—"long, long ago to Vivasvān, the sun-god," He gives the name; He is so particular.

Therefore those who are Kṛṣṇa conscious, their knowledge is perfect. Because the modern scientist, they can try to approach the sun globe—it is impossible for them. But they do not know actually what is there within the sun globe. They are thinking that there cannot be any living entities. And they are thinking that there cannot be any living entities in the moon planet. But that's not a fact. Everywhere there is living entities, because anything material is made of five elements: earth, water, fire, air, ether. That's a fact. Either you take sun globe or moon planet or this planet or that planet, the constituent ingredients are these five elements: earth, water, air, fire and ether.

So within this planet we have got experience that there is living entity within the earth. You dig some earth, you will find there are so many insects and ants are coming out, and on the land there is living entities. Then after land there is water. So water there are many living entities. You cannot say, seeing the surface of the water, you cannot say . . . just like this ocean, Atlantic Ocean, you do not see any living entities—that does not mean that there is no living entities. That is your insufficiency of vision. There is living entities.

So there is living entity on earth, there is living entity in water, there is living entity in the air. So why there shall not be living entity in the fire? What is your reason? If you think, "No, I am a living entity—I cannot live in the fire," your condition is different, because your body is differently made. Just like you cannot live in the water; that does not mean in the water there is no living entity. So it is your insufficiency of knowledge. Otherwise in every element there is living entity, and that is the information we get from Vedic literature: sarva-jña—the living entity is there everywhere.

So from śāstric vision . . . and that is our source of knowledge, śāstra-cakṣusā. One should see through the śāstra what is what. That is our, I mean to say, facility of those who are following the Vedic way of life. So we have to see everything through śāstra, and then we can understand, then we can get full knowledge. Śāstra-cakṣusā.

So here the demigods, they are praying: satya-vrataṁ satya-paraṁ tri-satyaṁ. Tri-satyaṁ. Tri-satyaṁ means Kṛṣṇa, or God, is truth in past, future and present. Before creation there is God, during the stay of the creation there is God, and after the annihilation of the creation there is God. It is therefore said that satya-vrataṁ . . . .

(aside to guest) You have got some prasādam?

Satya-vrataṁ satya-paraṁ tri-satyaṁ. Satyasya yoni: "source of all truths." Just like our present experience. This table is wood (knocks on table), it is a fact. We cannot say that this is false. Now wherefrom this wood comes? If you trace out the original source, then you will find that Kṛṣṇa is the source—by Kṛṣṇa's energy.

In the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated in very clear language that bhūmir āpa anala vāyuḥ khaṁ buddhir mano eva ca (BG 7.4). Apareyam. Bhūmi means earth, water. Bhūmir āpa anala. Anala means fire. Bhūmir āpa anala vāyuḥ. Vāyuḥ means air. Bhūmir āpa anala vāyuḥ khaṁ. Khaṁ means ākāśa, the sky. Mind, intelligence, ego. Kṛṣṇa says, bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā: "They are My separated energies." Therefore He is the source of all these elements, these gross elements and the subtle elements. The gross elements are the earth, water, fire, air, ether—these are gross elements; and finer elements are the mind, intelligence and ego. So altogether eight.

So all these material elements . . . mind is also material. Sometimes we mistake that mind is spirit. No. Mind is matter. Sometimes they say intelligence is spirit. No. They are subtler, very subtle, finer. Ego, that is still subtler, but they are all material elements. So Kṛṣṇa says that me, "My":

bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ

khaṁ buddhir mano eva ca

prakṛtir me . . .

bhinnā prakṛtir me aṣṭadhā

(BG 7.4)

"They are My separated energies."

So therefore the demigods accept. The demigods do not say that "We are all-in-all." They are not so fool. They admit, "Kṛṣṇa, You are the source of all truths," satyasya yoniṁ nihitaṁ ca satye (SB 10.2.26). And the whole material world, according to Vaiṣṇava philosophy, Bhāgavata philosophy—not according to; it is the fact—that everything is truth, but it is temporary. Just like the sun.

Sun we can see in the daytime. At night we do not see the sun. That does not mean the sun is dead. Formerly, people used to believe that sun, after evening, it dies. There were some, I mean, primitive philosophers, they say like that. But actually that is not a fact. The fact is the sun is there in the sky, by . . . but this planet, being in a different position, we do not see the sun. That is the fact. Therefore sun is truth, and because sun is not visible at night by me, therefore sun cannot be untruth.

So this is our foolishness. God is truth. God is truth, and He is visible also, in due course of time. And . . . but those who are rascals, they think that, "God is dead" or "There is no God." Therefore it is said, satyasya yoniṁ nihitaṁ ca satye.

So today is Janmāṣṭamī day. We should try to understand Kṛṣṇa philosophically. We should not go away because there is talk of philosophy. If there is story, they may be interested, (laughs) but hearing, hearing story only, we are trying to forget Kṛṣṇa. You see? Any religion, if it is not based on philosophy, one day it will be forgotten, it will be lost.

So that is happening. There are many, so many Kṛṣṇa temples, but there is no discussion of the Kṛṣṇa philosophy. Kṛṣṇa philosophy . . . they think Kṛṣṇa is an idol, just "jaya jagadīśa hare"—that's all, finished business. No. Janma karma me divyaṁ, yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). That is the injunction in the Bhagavad-gītā: "Anyone who understands Me, My transcendental activities, appearance and disappearance," anyone who can understand janma karma me divyaṁ, yo jānāti tattvataḥ, "in truth." That requires philosophical understanding.

Religion without philosophy is sentiment. Sentiment has no value. And philosophy without religion is mental speculation. That is also no value. Both of them should be combined. Religion should be combined with philosophy, then intelligent persons will stay with it. Otherwise they will be without religion, and without religion means animal. Animals, they do not have any religion, neither they have any understanding of religion. That is animal life.

Dharmeṇa hīnaḥ paśubhiḥ samānaḥ (Hitopadeśa 25). That is the distinction between animal and man. Animals are not interested in religion. No animal—cats and dogs—however nicely, cordially invite the cats and dogs, they'll never (laughs) be interested in religion, you see, because they are cats and dogs. But any human being, this developed consciousness, they will come—he will come. Therefore in every human society—doesn't matter where it is, in any part of the world—there is some conception of religion according to the place, according to the people and according to the . . . of course, preacher is always competent, but he does not speak fully if the audience is not, I mean, qualified to understand.

This philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot be preached in the desert. It is meant for advanced humans, the philosophy of God, the philosophy of Kṛṣṇa. Each word described herewith in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, before the appearance of Lord Kṛṣṇa:

satya-vrataṁ satya-paraṁ tri-satyaṁ

satyasya yoniṁ nihitaṁ ca satye

satyasya satyam ṛta-satya-netraṁ

satyātmakaṁ tvāṁśaraṇaṁ prapannāḥ

(SB 10.2.26)

Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, each line, each word is so much impregnated with philosophical thoughts that you can study one word throughout your whole life—it is so philosophical. It is not a professional business, that you finish Bhāgavata within one week. One life is not sufficient to understand one word of Bhāgavata, it is so big philosophical thing. But it has become a profession, Bhāgavata-saptāha. What you will understand within one week, the whole Bhāgavata? One word requires explanation one life.

So, satyasya yoniṁ nihitaṁ ca satye. These truths, these elements, they are also the God there as Paramātmā. That is explained in the Brahma-saṁhitā:

eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad-aṇḍa-koṭiṁ

yac-chaktir asti jagad-aṇḍa-cayā yad-antaḥ

aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ

govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

(Bs. 5.35)

This Govinda, that is omnipotency. By His one plenary portion, eko 'py asau—one plenary portion, Mahā-Viṣṇu. Mahā-Viṣṇu, from His breathing many universes are coming out, exhaling and inhaling; many universes are going into the . . . this is the process of creation and annihilation. Such Mahā-Viṣṇu, viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā-viśeṣaḥ (Bs. 5.48), that Mahā-Viṣṇu is only a partial representation of Govinda. In the Bhagavad-gītā also, when Arjuna wanted to understand the extensive potencies of Kṛṣṇa, how it is working, He replied, bahunaitena kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna . . .

atha vā bahunaitena

kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna

ekāṁśena sthito jagat

viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam

ekāṁśena sthito jagat

(BG 10.42)

The śloka is like that. He says: "How extensively I am expanded, how I can explain you in this short time?" Because He was speaking on the war field. "Simply try to understand that by My one plenary portion I enter into this universe or this material world," ekāṁśena sthito jagat," and therefore the whole universe is eminated."

Therefore here it is said, nihitaṁ ca satye: He is everywhere.

eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad-aṇḍa-koṭiṁ

yac-chaktir asti jagad-aṇḍa-cayā yad-antaḥ

(Bs. 5.35)

And He is not only in one universe, but there are innumerable universes—everywhere He is there. And not only in the universe, but everyone's heart. You are all sitting here, there are innumerable living entities:

īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ

hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati

(BG 18.61)

Īśvaraḥ, the Supreme Personality of Godhead in His Paramātmā feature, He is living within the heart of all living entities. You have got Kṛṣṇa within your heart. That is the yoga system, actually, to find out where you are sitting and where Kṛṣṇa is sitting. That is real meditation, not that gymnastics. Real meditation is to search out Kṛṣṇa within your heart.

There is a verse, Vedic verse: dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). Yogīs, in their meditation, dhyānāvasthita—being situated in meditation—dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā: the mind being absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena. Meditation means to become absorbed in the thought of Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu.

That is meditation: dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ. This is the yogic practice. Yogic practice is not gymnastic. Actually yogic practice is this, that one has to become purified from all sense-gratificatory methods—sitting in a very nice, sacred place alone—not in a fashionable city or room.

We can, in our bhakti-yoga, we can do anywhere—that is the facility of this bhakti-yoga system. In other yoga system you have to create the required atmosphere; then you can practice yoga. But in this system, bhakti-yoga system, it is so nice, and especially recommended in this age, because you can sit down anywhere and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa immediately with . . . (indistinct) . . . that is the advantage of this bhakti-yoga system.

And actually it is happening. These boys and girls, they are not practicing any different kind of meditation—simply by hearing the word Kṛṣṇa and Hare immediately begin this meditating on Kṛṣṇa. And that is also recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, that yoginām api sarveṣāṁ. There are different kinds of yogīs. Of all the yogīs, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā (BG 6.47). Within the heart also, within the mind, one who is always thinking of Kṛṣṇa.

You can do it. If you see this Kṛṣṇa Deity constantly, naturally there will be an impression within your mind. And if you think constantly about the Deity and Kṛṣṇa, and you hear about Kṛṣṇa—as soon as you hear about Kṛṣṇa, immediately you think of Kṛṣṇa—in this way if you live, then you become the topmost. We have written therefore this book, Kṛṣṇa Consciousness is the Topmost Yoga System.

So it is very fortunate that we meet on this auspicious evening to discuss about Kṛṣṇa. The more we discuss about Kṛṣṇa, the more we will become advanced. This is the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness: śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. Kṛṣṇa . . . in the presence of Kṛṣṇa we are discussing, having discourse about Kṛṣṇa. Śāstra says that when Kṛṣṇa sees that you are interested very much in such topics of Kṛṣṇa consciousness as we are trying to explain different ways—philosophically, scientifically . . . so actually the process is hearing.

śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ

(SB 1.2.17)

This hearing process is so nice that even if you do not understand the philosophy, simply as you are hearing also you are becoming a pious . . .

śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ

(SB 1.2.17)

One who is describing, śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ—śravaṇa means hearing, and kīrtanaḥ means chanting or describing. Just like I am describing; you are hearing.

So even we are all fools, simply by describing and simply by hearing, we are all becoming pious. Puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. You take advantage of this hearing and chanting, puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ, become automatically pious. If you want to become pious man you have to give in charity so many things. Just like people are opening hospitals, those who have got money. But those who have no money, how he will become pious, free of charge, without any money? Simply hear about Kṛṣṇa and you become pious.

Devotee: Jaya! All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda!

Prabhupāda: This is the cheapest method to become pious, religious, philosopher, everything: sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). All good qualities will develop. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ.

Then as soon as you become pious, what is the result? The result is hṛdy antaḥ-stho hy abhadrāṇi: all these dirty things which is accumulated within the heart, Kṛṣṇa helps to cleanse it. And mukti means to cleanse the heart. That's all. To come to the real understanding, that is mukti.

At the present moment, our heart being polluted in so many material contaminations, we do not know what is our actual position. We do not know it. They are ignorant, just like animals. But a human life is not meant for this purpose—to remain animal throughout the whole life. You should become pious, religious human being. That is success of life.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: All glories to Prabhupāda . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . questions on the subject matter of speaking, if some portion of the speech is not understood, then questions will be given. Not a different matter should be known. That is not the system.

(break) Yes. The nonsense human beings, the same thing . . . (indistinct) . . . "Let us kill them—there will be no disease." Do you think that that is a very nice philosophy, that a person is suffering from some disease, then kill him so that the disease and the sufferer goes away, finished? Would you like this? Hah?

Guest: I don't like it, but it is happening.

Prabhupāda: Happening? It does not happen; you are thinking it is happening. (break)

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: You must know Kṛṣṇa. Na jāyate na mriyate vā (BG 2.20). That is (indistinct; microphone problems) We are so foolish that still they are . . . (indistinct)

(break) . . . that Kṛṣṇa said those who are not taking to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness: na māṁ prapadyante . . . Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to surrender to Kṛṣṇa: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁśaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So we are teaching these boys and girls to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. I have no difficulty. I have not manufactured anything. The thing is already there. Kṛṣṇa says: "Surrender unto Me." I simply say: "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa."

Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!

Prabhupāda: What is the difficulty? And (laughs) by simply doing this I have become a great spiritual master. (laughter) I am surprised why they worship me as spiritual master. I am a damn rascal, but I am . . . (loud laughter) But I know I have not adulterated the word of Kṛṣṇa. That's all.

Devotees: Haribol.

Prabhupāda: I have not become a big yogī and commentator on Bhagavad-gītā and doing something rascaldom. I am simply saying the words of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says: "Surrender unto Me." He's God; He's Kṛṣṇa. I am saying: "Please surrender to Kṛṣṇa."

Devotee: Haribol.

Prabhupāda: So it is very simple to understand who is a rascal. Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is a rascal. Bring any scientist, any yogī, any jñānī before me, I will prove that he is a rascal number one.

Devotees: Haribol! Jaya! (loud applause)

Prabhupāda: So that is my request, that to understand who is a rascal is not very difficult thing. Simply try to know whether he has got any Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness. That will be known. How? Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12): "Anyone who has got Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all godly qualities will develop." Not that a man is doing all nonsense, and he says: "I am Kṛṣṇa conscious." No. If one is Kṛṣṇa conscious, then all godly qualities will develop.

So this is practical test. Anyone can understand. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt (SB 11.2.42). These European and American boys, from their childhood they were accustomed to take meat, wine, and accustomed to so many nonsense things—according to our Vedic standard most abominable, condemned. But just see how they have given up very easily. Very easily. That is this test of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not that I am doing all nonsense and I am Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is nonsense. There must be symptoms.

Just like if one man is rich man, then there must be symptoms: he must have a good car, he must have good dress. Oh, yes, if he says, "I am a very rich man," we can admit. Similarly, when one person is freed from all this material attachment—bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt (SB 11.2.42)—he will have aversion for all these nonsense things.

As Yamunacārya says: yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa . . .

yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-pādāravinde

nava-nava-rasa-dhāmany udyataṁ rantum āsīt

tad-avadhi bata nārī-saṅgame smaryamāṇe

bhavati mukha-vikāraḥ suṣṭhu niṣṭhīvanaṁ ca

Śrī Yamunacārya says: "Since I have developed my Kṛṣṇa consciousness," yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-pādāravinde, "always thinking on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa," yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-pādāravinde nava-nava-rasa-dhāmany udyataṁ rantum āsīt, "every moment I am getting new pleasure." And what about our material life? Bata nārī-saṅgame: "The highest material pleasure is sex life—to enjoy woman. As soon as I think of it, I spite on it." These are the test, how we are advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You can test yourself, how we have become detestful to this material enjoyment.

So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is pure, authorized, based on Vedic principles. So anyone who takes to it, he will be benefited surely; there is no doubt. And customer will increase gradually. But still you cannot have many customers for diamond—that is also another fact. Just like Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad-gītā:

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścin vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

(BG 7.3)

"Out of many thousands of men, one may be trying to become perfect in his life; and out of many perfect men, one may know Kṛṣṇa in truth." But Kṛṣṇa is so kind that in this age He has given a special facility: that you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, your heart will be purified and you will be able to understand what is Kṛṣṇa.

Thank you very much. (break) (end)