721014 - Conversation with U.S. Ambassador Kenneth Keating - Delhi

Conversations by Date, 1972

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

721014R1.DELHI - October 14, 1972 - 41:08 Minutes

(Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India)

Prabhupāda: . . . because, we are actually spirit soul we are not this body. But, our present civilization is going on, on the concept of this body. That I'm this body, and therefore I'm thinking I'm Indian, you are thinking you are American, somebody is thinking something else. This is our body. Just like I give you an example.

Suppose you have got this striped coat. I cannot address you Mr. striped coat. (laughs) Similarly, but we are actually being addressed like that. We are identified with this body, and the body is considered as the dress, and the person who is dressed, that is within.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

(BG 2.13)

Just like this child, this is a dress. Now, after some days this dress will be changed to another dress. After some time another dress, another dress. This body is dress, we should always . . . (indistinct) . . . but the person who is putting on the dress . . . just like I can remember my childhood state, dress and condition, my youthhood condition. So many things I remember.

So although the body has changed—either you say it has grown or changed—I am the same. Therefore conclusion should be that after giving up this dress, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), I must have another body. This is the proof of immortality of the soul and transmigration from one body to another.

Now, there are 8,400,000's of different dresses. There are 900,000 dresses within the water, then plants and trees, then insect, then birds. This is evolution, or different dresses. The spirit soul is passing through different dresses.

Ambassador Keating: Both the human and the animal?

Prabhupāda: Spirit soul, individual. He is passing through the evolutionary process. Evolutionary process means as he is desiring, nature is supplying a particular type of body.

Mrs. Keating: That's very interesting. I believe in the transmigration of the soul.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a fact.

Mrs. Keating: It's very interesting.

Prabhupāda: It is a fact. Just like this child is transmigrating from one body, one kind of body to another body. So in the same way, when I give up this body I transmigrate to another body. This is the science. Unfortunately, there is no university, no education, no culture of this great science. Therefore according to Bhāgavatam, the knowledge is imperfect.

The knowledge which are imparting from universities, they are not perfect knowledge. And this human form of body is the opportunity to understand the position of the soul and how he is transmigrating from one body to another, what is happening next. In this way, in this human form of body, we can understand this science, science of soul.

Unfortunately, no education is there to understand this science. So in other words, it may be taken that the modern civilization is killing the prerogative of the human being. He has got a chance to understand himself and to stop. He can stop this repetition of birth and death.

He can remain in a spiritual form in the spiritual kingdom, or with God, but these things are unknown to him, because there is no discussion in any university or any institution of knowledge. Although the Vedic literature gives us ample information of this—in the Bhagavad-gītā, that is the preliminary study of all Vedic literature—but there is no chance for the people to understand.

This is the defect of the modern civilization. Therefore it is necessary. And actually, because there is no sufficient knowledge of the position, I see the American boys and girls, although they are coming out very rich and respectable family, they are turning to hippies. In spite of your arrangement for very big, big university, they are becoming frustrated. They are no longer satisfied to live materially opulent like their fathers and grandfathers.

In other countries also, the same symptoms are there. Just like in India, the Naxalites. So that is another form of confusion. In your country the confusion state is a different kind. Another type is another confusion. In China also there is another type of confusion. In Russia also there is another type of confusion. So the present position of the human society is very dangerous, because everyone is feeling dissatisfaction, and confusion.

Ambassador: Are you able to make any progress, or have you any representation, for instance, in Russia?

Prabhupāda: Russia . . . last time when I went to Europe I visited Russia. I was invited by one Professor Kotovsky. Perhaps you know him.

Ambassador: No, I don't.

Prabhupāda: Ah. A very nice gentleman. Indology. He is in charge of the Indological department. Russia has got very good respect for Indian culture.

Ambassador: Yes. That's right.

Prabhupāda: They have very good . . . (indistinct) . . . so that . . . (break)

Ambassador: . . . have much . . . they don't believe in God.

Prabhupāda: They do not know much of it.

Mrs. Keating: Do you have many Indian followers? Many Indian followers as well as foreign?

Prabhupāda: Yes. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so far Indians are concerned, everyone accepts Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Mrs. Keating: May I ask the significance of the markings?

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is a sign that we are Vaiṣṇava, devotee of Kṛṣṇa.

Ambassador: You all have that.

Mrs. Keating: Yes. And the bag, is that, is that . . .

Prabhupāda: That is our chanting.

Mrs. Keating: Oh.

Prabhupāda: We are chanting always the holy name of Kṛṣṇa. This has got special significance, because Kṛṣṇa is absolute. There is no difference between Him and His name. Here, just like this milk substance and the milk name is different. If I want to take milk, simply if I go on chanting "milk" and "milk," that will not satisfy me. I must have the substance milk.

But in the spiritual world the Absolute has no differentiation between His name . . . between His name, between His quality, form, entourage. They are the same. So this chanting of holy name means that directly associating with Kṛṣṇa. Directly associating with Kṛṣṇa.

Ambassador: It's a constant reminder to yourselves of the . . .

Prabhupāda: . . . of my relationship with Kṛṣṇa.

Ambassador: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is it.

Ambassador: Well, that's very . . . I'm very much impressed with the sincerity of these American . . .

Prabhupāda: As soon as one understands this science, he will accept immediately.

Śyāmasundara: The one thing that impresses us and causes us to be sincere is that we recognize Kṛṣṇa consciousness not on a sentimental level but philosophically, and because it's very practical.

It's not only the philosophy is there, but also the practice of the philosophy. So we realize the results of the philosophy, actually, in our lives. So this convinces us absolutely, because the philosophy works. There's no flaw.

Gurudāsa: Śyāmasundara was . . . had a scholarship to big college for philosophy, and he was studying philosophical sciences, but he could not apply them. This was the reason for his frustration, searching.

Now we found something we can apply in our practical everyday life. And not only ourselves, but people who, having families in the United States, etc., they wanted to apply a philosophy. And that's the strength of this movement. We can apply this philosophy.

Ambassador: I sort of forgot . . . I don't know what I asked you, where you joined the movement.

Devotee: In California.

Ambassador: In California. In, uh . . .?

Devotee: Los Angeles, California.

Ambassador: Los Angeles.

Devotee: I met the devotees there about three years ago . . .

Ambassador: Ahah.

Devotee: . . . and stayed in the . . .

Prabhupāda: He was in the Navy of your country.

Ambassador: Oh, he was in the Navy.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ambassador: Isn't that interesting.

Śyāmasundara: We've got a lot of Vietnam veterans too, join up.

Ambassador: Really.

Śyāmasundara: One boy in London, he was on his way back from Vietnam, and he was completely shattered, and he found refuge in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He was a machine-gunner.

Ambassador: Where are you living?

Śyāmasundara: Well, we've been living in London last two years.

Ambassador: But here you're all living in the Delhi area, but you're going down to . . . what's the name of that place south of here?

Gurudāsa: Vṛndāvana?

Ambassador: Yeah.

Gurudāsa: We went.

Ambassador: Oh, you went?

Gurudāsa: Very nice.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Gurudāsa: They inquired about our Vṛndāvana trip.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Śyāmasundara: That's where Kṛṣṇa was born.

Ambassador: Oh.

Mrs. Keating: Where is that?

Ambassador: It's ninety miles south of here.

Prabhupāda: Yes, ninety miles.

Gurudāsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda spoke to the Russians that the principle . . . our philosophy is the same, and that's service. "You are serving Lenin and we are serving Kṛṣṇa." So by expounding upon the philosophy, then when you see that it's more intelligent to put his service toward God than one man. Like that.

Prabhupāda: Our, this is a fact, that everyone is serving somebody superior.

Ambassador: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Nobody can say that, "I am not serving anybody." Is it possible?

Ambassador: You're serving God.

Prabhupāda: I am serving; you are serving your state.

Ambassador: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So everyone is serving. Nobody can say that, "I am not serving anybody." It is not possible.

Mrs. Keating: But we serve God first.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Mrs. Keating: We serve God first.

Prabhupāda: God or anything, we have to serve.

Mrs. Keating: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is our constitutional position. Just like eating and drinking. You may eat something, I may eat something, but eating is essential. You cannot say that, "I don't eat." That is not possible. Eating, sleeping, mating, defending—these are the bodily necessities.

Similarly, the soul's necessity is to serve someone. Either you serve your country or your society or your family or your community, or at least if you have nothing to serve, then you keep a dog and serve it. (laughter)

Mrs. Keating: Or what?

Śyāmasundara: A dog.

Mrs. Keating: Oh, a dog, yeah.

Prabhupāda: Therefore, the conclusion is that I have to serve. This is our position. Do you admit?

Mrs. Keating: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Nobody can I say that, "I don't serve." That is not possible. That being our constitutional position, then just like my finger, it is serving, always, sometimes doing like that, sometimes doing like that, sometimes doing like that. The finger's business is to serve.

As part and parcel of my body, the finger's business is to serve the whole body. Similarly, we are part and parcel of God. Therefore our essential business is to serve God. How do you find this argument? Do you refute this argument?

Mrs. Keating: You serve and you share.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Mrs. Keating: You serve . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mrs. Keating: . . . and you share.

Prabhupāda: Yes. By serving I share. Just like this milk. The hand helps me, brings it here. I drink, and as soon I drank, the benefit is shared by all the parts of body. Is it not?

Ambassador: That's true.

Prabhupāda: You do not require to pass the milk through the finger, then with your toes. No. Simply put the tea, tea or milk, within, and every part of the body is satisfied. Just like you pour water in the root of the tree.

The energy immediately, I mean to say, distributed to the leaves, to the tree, to the flowers, to the fruits, everything, immediately. Similarly, there must be something which is the root of everything. That is God. The Vedānta philosophy says God means the origin, the source of everything. That is God. Now you can imagine how that source should be. That is also explained. But God, or the Absolute Truth, is that, is the original source of everything.

Ambassador: Are you acquainted with Swami Ranganathanandaji? You have met him?

Prabhupāda: I am not very much well known to him, but sometimes I met him.

Ambassador: He was in here, and I asked him the definition, his definition of God, and he described . . . he thought a minute and said: "Well, I would say God is the thread which links one good person to another." I thought that was an interesting definition.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Ambassador: I thought that was a very interesting definition.

Prabhupāda: No. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Ambassador: Hmm.

Prabhupāda: Sūtre maṇi-gaṇā iva (BG 7.7). Just like you have got pearl necklace, and it is woven in a thread. So all the pearls, they are resting on that thread. There is no question of good or bad. Everything is resting in God. There is no question of good and bad. Not that all good men simply rest on that thread.

Whatever we see within our experience, everything is resting on God. There is another verse in the Bhagavad-gītā, māyā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā (BG 9.4): "In the impersonal form, I am spread all over the manifestation, cosmic manifestation, and everything is resting on Me, but it is not necessarily I am in everything." That is the statement there.

The definition of God, first of all, if you take this definition, as the root of everything, as the source of everything, however you like . . . it is the definition given by the Vedānta-sūtra, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1): the origin of birth or emanation of everything.

Now you take anything and find out where is the original cause, then you come to God. Take anything on this table, yourself, your body. Everything you take, if you go on searching, searching, searching, what is, where is the origin, then you come to God. That is the perfect definition of God, janmādy asya yataḥ: the origin, or source, of everything. What do you think?

Ambassador: Oh, I'm very impressed.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ambassador: The last . . .

Prabhupāda: This is the right . . . another definition is God . . . God is all-attractive. Now, if you try to understand what is this attractiveness, just like your American country is very opulent, very attractive. If a man is very rich in the society, he is attractive. Then if a man is very strong, then he is attractive. If a man is very famous, he is attractive. If a man—man or woman—if a man is very beautiful, he is attractive. If a man is in the renounced order, he is attractive. If a man is very wise, he is attractive. So these six features are attractive features.

Now, these attractive features, every one of us have to some extent. Just like you are ambassador, representative of USA, so you are attractive. So this attractiveness you have got. Sometimes I have also got. Somebody comes to me, "Let me see this Swami speak." You see? So this attractiveness everyone possesses. But God means who has got all the attractiveness in full. That is God. You may be very rich, but you cannot say that "I am the richest person in the world." That is not possible.

But God can say: "I am the richest person in the whole creation." Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29), He says: "I am the proprietor of everything." Just like in America, before the Europeans migrated to America, the land was there. It belonged to somebody. Now you are claiming you are proprietor. Say after five hundred years or something somebody may come. The land is there, we come here for the time being and claim, "It is my property." But actually who is the proprietor?

Actually God is the proprietor. Therefore anything produced out of the land, that is also property of God. Just like if you have got a gold mine in your country. So I am not . . . India will not go to claim that, "It is my property." It is your property, because it is produced with your land. So if the whole land, whole sky, whole air, whole light, everything belongs to God, then where is your proprietorship? It is stated, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ buddhiḥ mano eva (BG 7.4). Now, nobody can say: "The sky is my property." But there must be some proprietor of the sky. What do you think? If everything has got a proprietor, everything is made of these five elements—sky, water, air, earth . . .

Śyāmasundara: Fire.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Śyāmasundara: Fire.

Prabhupāda: Fire, mind, intelligence, ego, these eight elements. Kṛṣṇa says that, "They are My energies." So things which are made by Kṛṣṇa's energy, how you can claim your property? Suppose a carpenter comes, you give him money to prepare some chair. The money is your energy. Now when the chair is prepared, he cannot claim that, "I have prepared this chair. It is my property." No. It has been made with my energy; therefore it is my property.

So if you make analysis of this whole cosmic situation, you will find that everything is made out of the energy of God. Then how you can claim that "I am proprietor"? This is false. Yes. This is called māyā. Just like we have seen in Calcutta when there was a upsurge during the transition state. Britishers are going off. There was a great Hindu-Muslim riot. Now they fought, Hindus and Muslims, and they died. After death, they're lying piles of dead body. No more Hindu and Muslim; it is simply lump of matter. But because they got a type of body, a type of mental situation, consciousness, they fought with one another, and then after death, no more claiming "Hindu" and "Muslim."

So this is called illusion. "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this," "I am that"—these are all designation. Really what I am? I am pure soul, part and parcel of God. That is my identity. So people should be taught this science. As soon as one understands his constitutional position, his actual situation, then he says: "Oh, I am not this. I was struggling so hard under some misidentification."

Ambassador: Is there a movement to get this philosophy, or science, propagated in the colleges?

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are trying, but we . . .

Ambassador: That's your program.

Prabhupāda: . . . we have no patronization. So whatever I have done, single-handed, and these boys help me a little. I did not get any help, either from my government or your government. But it is such a great science, such a great philosophy.

Śyāmasundara: They're starting to appreciate it. Many of the universities we have a course, in America.

Prabhupāda: That is . . . (indistinct)

Ambassador: You do have a course.

Śyāmasundara: Yes, Berkeley, Southern California.

Prabhupāda: We have got books. I have brought along books for you.

Ambassador: Oh! Oh! (Śyāmasundara showing books)

Prabhupāda: Big, big books. Dozens of books like that. Here is another book.

Mrs. Keating: Now I know why I feel at one with nature, because I love the land very much too, and the land belongs to God. Now I feel at one with the land.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Mrs. Keating: That's why I feel at one with the land. Because the land belongs to God.

Prabhupāda: No. All lands belong to God.

Mrs. Keating: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Why do you think particular land?

Ambassador: She worships the land. That's God.

Mrs. Keating: I feel at one with . . . I feel, I felt an affinity to the land, to nature. I feel a close affinity to the land and God

Ambassador: Isn't that a lovely book His Divine Grace brought me?

Mrs. Keating: Oh, my!

Gurudāsa: There's sixty-four paintings in . . .

Ambassador: Yeah, I sought to achieve those paintings. Lovely.

Mrs. Keating: Oh, that's wonderful.

Ambassador: Now, Your Divine Grace, when did you . . . did you from boyhood enter this movement, or . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. My father was a great devotee.

Ambassador: I see.

Prabhupāda: So from the very childhood I was trained up.

Ambassador: I see. (Śyāmasundara showing books to Mrs. Keating)

Prabhupāda: Then it was very much adjusted after meeting my spiritual master. But the ideas were impregnated, and I was trained up from my childhood. That was a great opportunity that I got a very good . . . I have dedicated this book to my father.

Ambassador: Oh! Oh, yes.

Gurudāsa: "To my father, Gour Mohan De."

Ambassador: Yeah, it's nice.

Śyāmasundara: We met Prabhupāda's sister in Calcutta. She is also a great devotee.

Ambassador: Oh, really!

Śyāmasundara: And she was lamenting that she has . . . eight sons? Eight sons, but none of them are devotees, and her brother has so many hundreds of sons, real sons.

Ambassador: Oh.

Mrs. Keating: Who is this?

Ambassador: His sister.

Mrs. Keating: Oh.

Ambassador: The sister of who, of, uh, His Divine Grace?

Prabhupāda: My sister, my sister.

Mrs. Keating: Oh, your sister.

Prabhupāda: Material sister.

Ambassador: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: She is my Godsister also.

Ambassador: She, uh, she's, uh . . .

Śyāmasundara: She's also a devotee.

Ambassador: Devotee, but none of her children?

Prabhupāda: Why? She has got eight children.

Ambassador: No, but I mean they are not devotees.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not so much.

Śyāmasundara: And the father of one of our Godbrothers from America, Mr. Teton—he's from Chicago—he was there with Girirāja, and she was saying to him, his sister was saying to him, "You're so fortunate that your son is a devotee." He's a very wealthy attorney in Chicago, and his only son is a devotee, but he is somewhat, from material point of view, he was somewhat confused. So she said: "You should be very happy that your son is a devotee. I have eight sons, and they are not like your son."

Gurudāsa: You met Girirāja. He came last time to the city.

Ambassador: Oh, yes. I remember. Yes, yes.

Gurudāsa: He's from Chicago.

Ambassador: That's right. Now he, uh, he has a wife here. No? He's not married?

Prabhupāda: No, he's not.

Ambassador: But your wife is here?

Śyāmasundara: Yes, she's here in India.

Ambassador: It's a lovely little girl, and so well behaved. She must have already had a part of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Our little girls at that age don't behave so well, usually. But she is so quiet and sweet.

Śyāmasundara: Her only education has been from Prabhupāda.

Ambassador and Guest: Really!

Śyāmasundara: Completely. She doesn't know anything but Kṛṣṇa and . . .

Mrs. Keating: Really.

Ambassador: How old is she?

Śyāmasundara: Three.

Ambassador: Three.

Mrs. Keating: But she doesn't tell me her name. (Sarasvatī laughs)

Prabhupāda: This is bad reputation.

Śyāmasundara: Why don't you chant for her?

Ambassador: Could you chant?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. She can chant. Sarasvatī prabhu, chant little.

Śyāmasundara: Swāmījī wants you to chant.

Prabhupāda: Come on, come here. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Come on.

Mrs. Keating: She's shy, like all children.

Prabhupāda: She dances very nice, chants very nice. And very rhythmically.

Mrs. Keating: Really?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Śyāmasundara: One thing that has so much gone to . . . into our hearts is the fact that this philosophy and this way of life is eternal and nonsectarian. It applies to all people of all different races, different ages.

Prabhupāda: That is my experience, you see. I have preached this cult everywhere, and everywhere it has been received well.

Ambassador: Well, that's a philosophy that mother Anne here believes in. All, all, all religions are . . .

Prabhupāda: First of all, we have to understand what do you mean by religion.

Mrs. Keating: Pardon?

Prabhupāda: What do you mean by religion?

Mrs. Keating: Oh, religion. Well, I'm more of an eclectic. I believe in, in the best of all religions.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Mrs. Keating: I believe in the best of all religions.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Mrs. Keating: The highest.

Ambassador: He asked what you mean by religion. You mean an organized . . .?

Mrs. Keating: Oh, no. I don't mean anything organized.

Śyāmasundara: No. What . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no, first of all, principle of religion. What is the principle of religion?

Mrs. Keating: Well, I think it comes from within, inside. I think we are at one with God, and I am a reflection of God. I am an idea of God. That's what I believe.

Prabhupāda: That is very nice. Idea of God means whatever you have got, the God has got the same idea. Is it not?

Mrs. Keating: Huh?

Prabhupāda: You mean to say like that?

Mrs. Keating: Ah, huh.

Prabhupāda: Or you are a sample of God.

Mrs. Keating: Yes.

Prabhupāda: A small sample of God. Just like you take a drop of ocean water and you taste it, then you can understand immediately the whole ocean is salty. Similarly, if you analyze your characteristic, then the same characteristic is there in God. Just like you want to love somebody. Everyone wants to love somebody. Therefore it can be concluded that God has got the propensity to love.

Mrs. Keating: Yes. God is love.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But if God is love . . .

Mrs. Keating: Spirit?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa means love, so when you want to love somebody and somebody wants to love you, the both of us must be person.

Mrs. Keating: Both must be . . .?

Prabhupāda: Person. You don't love the air. You love your husband. He is a person. And he loves you, you are a person. Therefore God must be person. This conclusion. Because I am person, I am a sample of God, so God must be person. What do you think? Without God being person, how we can reciprocate love?

Ambassador: Uh, Your Divine Grace, I'm sorry, but I have an Ambassador waiting, and I have to move from the sublime to the mundane. (laughs) I'd like to continue this, but he has this appointment and I have to . . . but I appreciate very much your coming in and . . .

Prabhupāda: Now, I am also coming to the mundane point of view, that the next time I want, when I go and come back to USA, I wish to see the President, if you can help me.

Ambassador: Well I, I can write a letter, but uh, I've had . . . let me . . . don't let me discourage you, but let me tell you that I've had at least a dozen religious leaders from India request the same thing, and none of them have gotten to see the President.

Prabhupāda: But one thing is . . .

Ambassador: But I'll be glad to try to help.

Prabhupāda: So, the things are, such an important philosophy, important movement is going unnoticed. You are busy to help the whole world so that peace may come, people may be happy, but instead of being happy, your country are becoming hippie.

Mrs. Keating: (laughing) Happy to hippie.

Ambassador: That's right.

Prabhupāda: So there is some defect, and here is a chance to rectify that defect. Here is a chance. I can argue with any scientist, any philosopher, that this is the only remedy to save people from frustration. This is the only remedy. Why it should go unnoticed by your country, such a great . . . who are willing to help others, willing to help? You started the United Nation in your country, what they have done? Let us do something tangible, scientific, that people will be happy.

Ambassador: Well, I think the . . . what this young man says is very encouraging, that some of this is now being slowly inculcated in our colleges and universities.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: Of all the movements, religious movements from India that have gone there, this one has shown the most potency of all, by far.

Ambassador: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: There's been nothing like this movement ever before in the United States, or in the world. And its potency proves the philosophy. If something is potent it automatically grows.

Ambassador: Yes, that's right.

Gurudāsa: We want also to be encouraged by our brothers and friends.

Ambassador: Yes, well that's right, and I'm so grateful to you for that lovely book. That's a beautiful book. I'll keep it out here on my table. Maybe I will send . . . you know, I had a young man here that was having trouble to extend his visa, and the government said to him, "What are you here for?" He said: "I am here to find myself." They said I should have sent . . . he's a hippie . . .

Mrs. Keating: This would be perfect.

Ambassador: So I said . . . they said when they were in last time, you should have sent him to us, which I would do again, because it's . . .

Gurudāsa: Then that hippie will become happy.

Mrs. Keating: Will become happy, yes.

Ambassador: Well, Your Divine Grace, thank you very much for stopping to see us.

Prabhupāda: Thank you.

Ambassador: Very nice of you. And nice to see you.

Śyāmasundara: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Ambassador: Give my regards to your wife. Bye.

Devotee: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Śyāmasundara: Say good-bye, Sarasvatī.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) . . . with my book. (indistinct conversation)

Mrs. Keating: Where can you be reached? Any place?

Prabhupāda: My American headquarters.

Mrs. Keating: The American . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, American headquarters.

Ambassador: Is it in there?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mrs. Keating: Oh, fine, fine. Yes.

Prabhupāda: This is one address, and this is another.

Mrs. Keating: Oh, fine, fine.

Śyāmasundara: Today we received a telegram. Macmillan Company has just agreed to print Prabhupāda's Bhagavad-gītā.

Ambassador: Oh, really!

Śyāmasundara: Thirty-five thousand copies.

Ambassador: Oh!

Mrs. Keating: Oh, that's marvelous. It's a very good . . .

Ambassador: I used to be the attorney for the Macmillan Company.

Prabhupāda: Yes, here is, here is my headquarters address.

Ambassador: I see. In Los Angeles.

Mrs. Keating: Oh, good. Fine.

Prabhupāda: That is my Press address.

Śyāmasundara: (showing telegram) This was received today.

Ambassador: "Macmillan enthusiastic. Commitment letter sent to you. 30,000 paper, 10,000 hard."

Śyāmasundara: Forty thousand.

Mrs. Keating: Excellent.

Ambassador: Forty thousand.

Prabhupāda: Forty thousand.

Mrs. Keating: Forty thousand. That's wonderful.

Ambassador: That's great.

Mrs. Keating: Really, and it's a fine company.

Prabhupāda: Yes, fine.

Mrs. Keating: It's very good.

Gurudāsa: Ambassador Keating was the attorney for Macmillan.

Prabhupāda: Oh!

Ambassador: Yes.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Ambassador: So I . . . very nice to see you.

Prabhupāda: Thank you.

Ambassador: And I appreciate your calling.

Mrs. Keating: Very nice.

Śyāmasundara: Thank you very much.

Ambassador: Bye. (end)