721125 - Lecture BG 02.20 - Hyderabad

Lectures by Date, 1972

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

721125BG-HYDERABAD - November 25, 1972 - 51:56 Minutes

Prabhupāda:

. . . cin

nāyaṁ bhūtvā bhavitā vā na bhūyaḥ

ajo nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ purāṇo

na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre

(BG 2.20)

So the soul cannot be killed. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre. And the soul has no birth, no death. As Kṛṣṇa is eternal, Kṛṣṇa has no birth and death . . . ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā (BG 4.6), Kṛṣṇa says in the Fourth Chapter. Aja. Kṛṣṇa's another name is Aja. All viṣṇu-tattva, aja. We are also aja. Aja means who does not take birth. So the both Kṛṣṇa, or God, and the living entities, they are eternal.

Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). The only difference is because we are a small particle, therefore we are prone to be covered by material energy. This is the difference. We become cyuta, fallen down. But Kṛṣṇa is Acyuta. He never falls down. That is the difference.

So just like cloud. Cloud can cover a portion of sunlight. Not that cloud can cover the, all the sunlight. That is not possible. Suppose now this sky is covered with cloud, maybe hundred miles, two hundred miles or five hundred miles. But what is five hundred miles in comparison to the sun, millions and trillions of miles? So the cloud covers our eyes, not the sun. Similarly, māyā can cover the eyes of the living entity. Māyā does not cover the Supreme Person. No. That is not possible.

So this so-called birth and death is due to the covering of māyā, the marginal potency. We are . . . Kṛṣṇa has got many potencies. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 6.8, CC Madhya 13.65, purport). That is the Vedic instruction. The Absolute Truth has multi-energies. Whatever we see . . . parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktis sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat (Viṣṇu Purāṇa 1.22.53).

Whatever little we are seeing, that is simply distribution of the energy of the Supreme. Exactly the same way: the sunshine and the sun globe and the sun-god. Sun-god, from him . . . not only sun-god, there are other living entities also. Their body is glowing. They have got fiery body. As we have got earthly body—earth is prominent in this planet—similarly, in the sun planet, the fire is prominent. As earth is one of the five elements, fire is also another one of the five elements. These things will be explained, that the soul is never burned by the fire.

So there is no question of thinking that in the sun planet there is no living being. There are living beings, suitable for the planet. We learn from Brahmā-saṁhitā that koṭiṣu vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam. Vasudhā. Vasudhā means planet. There are innumerable planets in each and every universe. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam (Bs. 5.40). This is only one universe. There are millions of universes also.

When Caitanya Mahāprabhu was requested by one devotee of Lord Caitanya that, "My dear Lord, You have come. Kindly You take away all these conditioned souls. And if You think that they are horribly sinful, they cannot be delivered, then You transfer all the sins upon me. I shall suffer. You better take them away." This is Vaiṣṇava philosophy.

Vaiṣṇava philosophy means that para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Actually, a Vaiṣṇava is unhappy by seeing others unhappy. Personally, he has no unhappiness. Because he's in contact with Kṛṣṇa, how he can be unhappy? Personally, he has no unhappiness. But he becomes unhappy by seeing the conditioned soul unhappy. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī.

Therefore the Vāsudeva Ghoṣa, he requested Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu that, "You deliver all these unhappy conditioned souls. And if You think they are sinful, they cannot be delivered, then transfer all the sins of these people to me. I shall suffer, and You take them away."

So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was very much pleased by his proposition, and He smiled. He said that, "This brahmāṇḍa, this universe, is only just like a mustard grain in the bag of a mustard seeds." Our point is that just like there are so many universes. Just compare. You take a bag of mustard seeds and pick up one grain. In comparison to the pack of mustard seeds, what is the value of this one grain?

Similarly, this universe is like that. There are so many universes. The modern scientist, they are trying to go to other planets. Even they go, what is the credit there? There are koṭiṣu vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam. One cannot go so many planet. Even according to their calculation, if they want to go to the topmost planet, which we call Brahmaloka, it will take forty thousands of years in the light-year calculation.

So in God's creation everything is unlimited. It is not limited with our perspective of knowledge. So there are so many, innumerable universes, innumerable planets, and there are innumerable living entities. And all of them are rotating according to their karma. And birth and death means changing, one body to another.

I make one plan in this life and . . . because everyone is in the bodily concept of life. So, so long we are in the bodily concept of life . . . "I am brāhmin," "I am kṣatriya," "I am vaiśya," "I am śūdra," "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am so and so." These are all bodily concept of life, designations. So, so long I am in bodily concept of life, I think, "I have got this duty to do. As brāhmin, I have got to do such-and-such things." "As American, I have got to do so many things." So long this consciousness will continue, we'll have to accept another body. This is the nature's process. So long . . .

Therefore we make some plan in this life, and my this material body, this gross body, is finished; that is dead. But my idea, in the subtle body, in the mind, it remains. And because it remains in my mind, therefore to fulfill my desire I have to accept another body. This is the law of transmigration of the soul. The soul is, thus, with his plan, he is transferred into another gross body. And along with the soul, there is Supersoul, Supreme Personality of Godhead. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ (BG 15.15).

So the Supersoul, Supreme Personality of Godhead, gives him intelligence: "Now you wanted to execute this plan. Now you have got a suitable body and you can do it." So therefore we find that somebody is great scientist. Or a very nice mechanic. This means that in the last life he was mechanic, he was making some plan, and this life he gets chance, and he fulfills his desire. He discovers something and becomes very reputed, famous man. Because karmīs, they want three things: lābha-pūjā-pratiṣṭhā. They want some material profit and they want some material adoration, and lābha-pūjā-pratiṣṭhā, and stability. This is material life.

So one after another, we are trying to have some material profit, some material adoration, material reputation. And therefore we are having different types of body, and it is going on. Actually, this acceptance of body does not mean I die. I am there. In subtle form, I am there. Na jāyate na mriyate. Therefore there is no question of birth and death. It is simply transformation of the body. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22), at it will be explained in the next verse:

vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya

navāni gṛhṇāti naro 'parāṇi

tathā śarīrāṇi vihāya jīrṇāny

anyāni saṁyāti navāni dehī

(BG 2.22)

Dehī, the living entity, simply changing the dress. It is the dress. This body is dress. Now the question is . . . just like there was some discussion that the spirit has no form. How it can be? If this is . . . this body is my dress, how I have no form? How the dress has got form? My coat or shirt has got a form because my body has got a form. I have got two hands, therefore my dress, my coat, has also two hands. My shirt has also two hands.

So if this is dress, this body, as it is described in the Bhagavad-gītā—vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22)—so if it is dress, then I must have a form. Otherwise, how this dress is made? It is very logical conclusion and very easy to understand. Unless I have got my own form, how the dress has got form? What is the answer? Anyone can say? How the original living entity can be without hands and legs?

If this body's my dress . . . just like you go to a tailor. He takes measurement of your hand, of your leg, of your chest; then your coat or shirt is made. Similarly, when you have got a particular type of dress, it is to be assumed that I have got my form, spiritual form. Nobody can refute this argument. And apart from our so-called argument, we have to accept the statement of Kṛṣṇa. The . . . because He's authority.

So if I think that I, I am this coat, that is my ignorance. And that is going on. The so-called service to the humanity means washing the coat. Just like if you are hungry and I wash your coat very nicely with soap, will you be satisfied? No. That is not possible. So every one of us is spiritually hungry. What these people will do by washing the coat and shirt? There cannot be any peace.

The so-called humanitarian service means they are washing this vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni. That's all. And death means . . . it is explained very nicely that when the dress, your dress, my dress, becomes too old, we change it. Similarly, birth and death means changing the dress. It is very clearly explained. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22).

Jīrṇāni, old dress, old garment, we throw it away and take another new dress, new garment. Similarly, vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya navāni gṛhṇāti. A new, fresh dress. Similarly, I am old man. So if I am not liberated, if, if I have got so many plans to execute in this material world, then I'll have to accept another body.

But if you have no more plan, no more plan, niṣkiñcana . . . that is called niṣkiñcana. Niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, niṣkiñcana. One has to be completely freedom, completely freedom about this material world. One should be disgusted. Then there is possibility of being transferred to the spiritual world. So long one has got a pinch of desire that, "If I would have become like Brahmā, or like king, like Jawaharlal Nehru," then I'll have to accept a body. This desire.

Kṛṣṇa is so liberal, so kind. Whatever we want—ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11)—Kṛṣṇa will give you. To take something from Kṛṣṇa . . . just like the Christians pray, "O God, give us our daily bread." So is it very difficult task for Kṛṣṇa to give our dai . . .? He's giving already. He's giving daily bread to everyone. So this is not the mode of prayer. Their mode of prayer . . . as Caitanya Mahāprabhu say, mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi (CC Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4). This is prayer.

We haven't got to ask anything. Kṛṣṇa, God, has made ample arrangement for our maintenance. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate (Īśo Invocation). But it is restricted by nature when we are sinful. We become atheist. We become demons. Then the supply is restricted. Then we cry for, "Oh, there is no rain. There is no this, no . . ." That is nature's restriction. But from God's arrangement there is sufficient food for everyone. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He supplying everyone.

So, so long we'll have a pinch of material desire to execute our plan, then we have to accept a material body, and that is called janma. Otherwise, the living entity has no birth and death. Now, this janma, and mṛtyu . . . the living entities, they are compared with the sparks, and the Supreme Lord as the big fire. So the big fire, that is the comparison. And the small spark, both of them are fire. But sometimes the sparks fall down from the big fire. That is our falldown. Falldown means we come into the material world. Why? Just to enjoy, to imitate Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the supreme enjoyer.

So we are servants. Sometimes—it is natural—the servant desires that, "If I could enjoy like the master . . ." So when this sentiment or proposition comes, that is called māyā. Because we cannot be enjoyer. This is false. If I think that I can become enjoyer, even in this material world, so-called . . . they're, everyone is trying to become enjoyer.

And the last snare of enjoyer means that one thinks that, "Now I shall become God." This is a last snare. First of all, I want to become manager, or proprietor, then prime minister, then this and that. And when everything is baffled, then one thinks that "Now I shall become God." That means the same propensity, to become master, to imitate Kṛṣṇa, is going on.

Therefore this desire, that I shall merge into the existence of God, I shall become . . . just like the example is given that, "I am drop of water. Now I shall merge into the big ocean. Therefore I shall become ocean." This example is generally given by the Māyāvādī philosophers. The drop of water is, when mixed up with the ocean water, they become one. That is only imagination.

Every water, molecular. There are . . . there are so many individual molecular parts. Apart from that, suppose you mix up with the water and merge into the Brahman existence, the samudra, the sea, or the ocean. Then again you'll be evaporated, because the water is evaporated from the ocean and it become cloud, again falls down on the ground, and it goes down again to the ocean. This is going on. This is called āgamana-gamana, coming and again mixing. So what is the benefit?

But the Vaiṣṇava philosophy says that we do not want to mix up with the water, we want to become a fish within the ocean. That is very nice. If you one become fish—a big fish, or small fish, it doesn't matter—if you go deep into the water, then there is no more evaporation. You remain.

Similarly, the spiritual world, the Brahman effulgence, if . . . nirbheda-brahmānusandhi. Those who are trying to merge into the Brahman existence, for them it is not very safe. That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: vimukta-māninaḥ. Vimukta-māninaḥ. They're thinking that, "Now I have merged into the Brahman effulgence. Now I am safe." No, it is not safe. Because it is said, āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty (SB 10.2.32). Even after great austerities and penance, one may rise, paraṁ padam, in the . . . merging into the Brahman effulgence. Still, from there, he falls down. He falls down. Because Brahman . . .

The spirit soul is ānandamaya. As Kṛṣṇa, or the Absolute, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12), sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). So simply by merging into the Brahman existence, one cannot become ānandamaya. Just like you are going very high in the sky. So to remain in the sky, it is not very ānandamaya. If you can get shelter in some planet, then it is ānandamaya. Otherwise, you have to come back again on this planet.

So nirviśeṣa, without varieties, there cannot be any ānanda. Variety is the mother of enjoyment. So we are trying to . . . we are disgusted with these material varieties. Therefore some is trying to make these varieties zero and some is trying to make these variety impersonal. But that will not give us the exact transcendental pleasure.

If you can go up into the Brahman effulgence and take shelter of Kṛṣṇa or Nārāyaṇa . . . there are innumerable planets in the Brahman effulgence. They are called Vaikuṇṭhaloka. And the topmost Vaikuṇṭhaloka is called Goloka Vṛndāvana. So if you are fortunate enough to take shelter in one of these planets, then you are eternally happy in blissful condition of knowledge. Otherwise, simply to merge into the Brahman effulgence is not very safe. Because we want ānanda.

So in impersonal zero standard there cannot be any ānanda. But because we have no information, the Māyāvādī philosopher, of the Vaikuṇṭha planets, they come back to these again to this material planet. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32).

Adhaḥ means in this material world. That I have explained many times. There are so many big, big sannyāsīs, they give up this material world as mithyā, jagan mithyā, and take sannyāsa, and then again, after a few days, they come to social service, politics. Because they could not realize what is Brahman. They, for ānanda, they have to take part in these material activities.

Because ānanda . . . we want ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). So if there is no spiritual ānanda, there must be, they must come to the inferior quality. This material world is inferior quality, aparā. If we cannot get spiritual ānanda, or superior pleasure, then we have to take this material pleasure. Because we want pleasure. Everyone searching after pleasure.

So āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). So for this pleasure only we are making so many plans. According to our own brain, teeny brain, we are making plans. Just the . . . in the state also, they're making plans. Personally, individually and commercially, everyone is making plan. The plan-making means becoming entangled. And he has to . . . they have to take birth again to fulfill the plan. Vāsanā. This is called vāsanā. So we have to purify the vāsanā, desire. That is required. If we don't purify, then we have to take birth, birth and death, repetition of birth and death.

So that desire, how it can be purified? That desire can be purified. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). We have to give up this designation, "I am brāhmin," "I am śūdra," "I am kṣatriya," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this and . . ." So many designation. Because I am spirit soul, but this is, this covering is my designation. So if I identify with this designation, then I'll have to repeat the birth and death. That you can purify.

How it can be purified? That can be purified by devotional service. When you understand that you are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, when I understand that, "I am eternally related with Kṛṣṇa. He's Supreme, I am servant," and when I engage myself in His service, that is the purification of desires. Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, everyone is acting on different material consciousness, "I am American. Therefore I must work in this way. I must fight with the Russians." Russian thinking that "I am Russian. I must fight the Americans." Or the China . . . so many designation. This is called māyā, illusion.

So we have to purify. That purification means one must know that, "I am not this body. I am spirit soul." So what I am doing as spirit soul? Whatever I am working, at the present moment, on this bodily concept of life . . . but what about, what I am doing as spirit soul? This knowledge required. This knowledge comes when we are purified.

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

(BG 18.54)

Mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām. When? After being free from this material designation, brahma-bhūtaḥ. After being free, not before that.

So bhakti is not a sentiment. Bhakti . . . people say: "Those who are not very learned, cannot study Vedic literature very nicely, and therefore they take to bhakti." No. Bhakti, actual bhakti, begins when one has become completely brahma-bhūtaḥ.

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

(BG 18.54)

That, that is pure transcendental stage of executing devotional service, after being free from material designation. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). That is called nirmala. That is mukti.

Because spirit soul is eternal. It has to be cleansed, the material contamination. So when he's clean, then hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate (CC Madhya 19.170). When our senses are purified . . . not this American hand or Indian hand. "It is Kṛṣṇa's hand. This hand should be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, in sweeping the temple." If he thinks like this, he is far, far greater than any Vedāntist. If he simply knows that, "This hand belongs to Kṛṣṇa," then he is far, far greater than any Vedāntist.

These Vedāntists . . . of course, all devotees, they are Vedāntist. But somebody thinks that he has monopolized as Vedānta. Veda means knowledge; anta means ultimate. So Vedānta means ultimate knowledge. So ultimate knowledge is Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15).

So the so-called Vedāntist, if he cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa, what is the meaning of that Vedāntist? It has no meaning. They, the . . . he's perfect vedāntī who knows that, "Kṛṣṇa is Supreme. He's my Lord. I am His eternal servant." This is Vedānta knowledge.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

Indian man (1): . . . that is oṁkāra. Oṁkāra-svarūpa. But what I want to know is who is Lord Śiva, Viṣṇu and Brahmā? Whether these three of them are gods?

Prabhupāda: Yes. They're expansion of God. Just like the earth. And then, from earth, you find trees, wood. And then in the tree, you can set fire, it becomes smoke. Then comes out the fire. When you get the fire, you can take your work from the fire. So the . . . everything is one, but . . . just the same example: from earth, the wood; from wood, the smoke—from smoke, the fire. But if you have to take business, then it is required the fire, although the, all of them, are the one.

Similarly, there are demigods, Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara. So if you have to take business, then you have to go to the fire, Viṣṇu, sattama, sattva-guṇa. This is the process. Although they are one, but your business can be completed with Viṣṇu, not with others. What is my business? My business is to get out of these material clutches. So if anyone is eager to be free from these material clutches, then he must take shelter of Viṣṇu, not others.

Indian man (2): Kindly let me know that what is desire. So long desire is there, we can't realize God. And realizing God is also a desire.

Prabhupāda: Desire means material desires. If you think that you are Indian and your desire is how to make your country improve . . . or so many desires. Or if you are a family man. So these are all material desires. So long you are enwrapped by material desires, then you are under the condition of material nature. As soon as you think that you are . . . your, you are not Indian or American, you are not a brahmin or Vaiṣṇava . . . brahmin or kṣatriya, you are eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, that is called purified desire.

Desire is there, but you have to purify the desire. That I have explained just now. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). These are upādhi. Suppose you are in a black coat. So does it mean you are black coat? If you say . . . if I ask you, "Who are you?" If you say: "I am black coat," is that the proper answer? No. Similarly, we are in a dress, American dress or Indian dress. So if somebody asks you, "Who are you?" "I am Indian." That is wrong identification. If you say, "Ahaṁ brahmāsmi," that is your real identification. That realization required.

Indian man (2): And, sir, how can I get . . .?

Prabhupāda: That requires, uh . . . you have to go . . . tapasā brahmacaryeṇa (SB 6.1.13). You have to undergo the principle. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā (CC Madhya 23.14-15). You have to accept the process. Then you'll realize.

Indian man (2): But yesterday you also represented that there was some devotee, he renounced this whole world, went to forest, and he was chanting the name of Lord Kṛṣṇa, this and that. But even . . . (indistinct) . . . bhakti-yoga, and he was having the love of one deer. So at the time of death, he got idea of deer, and next birth he become deer. So there was no desire intentionally, but anyhow he came in that . . .

Prabhupāda: No, there was desire. He was thinking of a deer. There was desire.

Indian man (2): We think about so many things . . .

Prabhupāda: So that is the practice. You should simply come to the thinking of Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection. And if you become embarrassed with so many things, then there is risk of becoming a cat, dog, deer or demigod, anything.

Indian man (2): Mahārāja, why you . . .?

Prabhupāda: Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). Your, at the time of death, whatever you desire, you get the next body. That is the nature's law. (break) . . . had been in Russia, in Moscow, many young men there are, very much anxious to accept this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And some of them were initiated by me. And they are going on. Just like these boys are going on.

So this . . . so far my experience is concerned, everywhere I go, people are the same. It is by artificial, I mean to say, means, they have been designated as Communist and this and that. (break) . . . people, they're all the same. As soon as we speak of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they respond immediately. That is my experience. Actually that is a fact. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said:

nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-prema sādhya kabhu naya

śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya

(CC Madhya 22.107)

The Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there in everyone's heart. It is dormant. But it is contaminated and covered by the material dirty things.

So śravaṇādi śuddha-citte. This means, as you are hearing . . . just like these boys, these American and European boys, they came, first of all, to hear me. By hearing, hearing, now their Kṛṣṇa consciousness is awakened, and they have taken seriously to Kṛṣṇa devotion.

(break) . . . or Africa or India. Everyone has got Kṛṣṇa consciousness within. Our process, the saṅkīrtana movement, is to awaken that consciousness. That's all. Just like one man is sleeping. To awake him: "Get up! Get up!" Uttiṣṭhata jāgrata prāpya varān nibodhata (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 1.3.14).

So this is our process. It's not that artificially we are making somebody Kṛṣṇa conscious. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there already. That is a birthright of every living entity. Kṛṣṇa says, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). Just like father and the son, there cannot be any separation. But sometimes it happens that the son goes out of home, by some chance, or from childhood. He forgets who is his father. That is a different thing. But the relationship between father and son is never broken.

So we are all Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). So our relationship is eternal. Now we have forgotten. We are thinking that, "I am not Kṛṣṇa's; I am America's," "I am India's." This is our illusion. So by proper method . . . the method is hearing. And to chant through his ear, "You are not American. You are Kṛṣṇa's. You are not American." "You are not Indian. You are Kṛṣṇa's." In this way, hearing, hearing, he may: "Oh, yes, I am Kṛṣṇa's." This is the way.

We have to constantly inject, "You are not American. You are not Indian. You are not Russian. You are Kṛṣṇa's. You are Kṛṣṇa's." Then . . . each mantra has got value; then he comes, "Oh, yes, I am Kṛṣṇa's." Brahmā-bhūtaḥ prasa . . . "Why I was thinking I was Russian and American and this and that?" Brahmā-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54).

As soon as he comes to that state, he has no more lamentation. Here, as American or Indian or Russian, we have got two things: lamentation and hankering. Everyone is hankering what he does not possess, "I must have this." And what he possesses, if it is lost, he's lamenting: "Oh, I have lost."

So these two business are going on. So long you come . . . do not come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, your these two business will go on: lamenting and hankering. And as soon as you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you become joyful. There is no reason of lamenting. There is no reason of hankering. Everything is complete. Kṛṣṇa is complete. So he becomes free. That is brahma-bhūtaḥ state.

So this can be awakened by hearing. Therefore the Vedic mantra is called śruti. One has to receive this awakenness through the ear. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). Always one has to hear and chant about Viṣṇu: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Then ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), everything will be cleansed, and he'll come to understand that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa."

Indian man (3): . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: When you become Vaiṣṇava, the brahminism is already included. General process is, unless one does not come to the sattva-guṇa platform, he cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the general rule. But this Kṛṣṇa . . . devotional service, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is so nice that simply by hearing about Kṛṣṇa, you come to immediately to the brahminical platform. Naṣṭa-prāyeṣu abhadreṣu nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā (SB 1.2.18).

Abhadra. Abhadra means these three qualities of material nature. Even brahminical quality. The śūdra quality, the vaiśya quality or the kṣatriya quality, or even brāhmin quality, they are all abhadras. Because in brāhmin quality, again the same identification comes: "Oh, I am brahmin. Nobody can become brahmin without birth. I am great. I am brahmin." This false prestige comes. So he becomes bound up. Even in brahminical qualities.

But when he comes to the spiritual platform actually, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu said: "I am not brahmin, I am not sannyāsī, I am not gṛhastha, I am not brahmacārī." Not, not, not . . . these eight principles, varṇāśrama, He denies. Then what You are? Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ (CC Madhya 13.80): "I am the servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa." This is self realization. (break)

Indian man (4): . . . is supposed to be universal Lord, and about Him . . .

Prabhupāda: Why "supposed"? He is. Why you suppose like that?

Indian man (4): Of course. But, at the same time, only in Indian history or in Indian philosophy, only God's description is there. But whereabouts, in America or other places, in other continents, there is no description in their history at all.

Prabhupāda: Because there is no history and there is no philosophy.

Indian man (4): Pardon me?

Prabhupāda: There is no philosophy in other countries.

Indian man (4): Philosophy . . . but God, there is no . . .

Prabhupāda: If there is any philosophy, that is in India. And you are so, I mean to say, what can I say, that you say because the philosophy's not in America, therefore this philosophy is null and void.

Indian man (4): But they say later there was no Lord Viṣṇu, because . . .

Prabhupāda: Why not? They do not know. Now they are knowing it.

Indian man (4): But they say description that He has wandered there, He lives in there, like that. There should be some reason.

Prabhupāda: Why you are so envious of America? (laughter)

Indian man (4): No, no. God is distributed everywhere.

Prabhupāda: God is everywhere. Therefore God's disciples or God's sons are everywhere.

Indian man (4): Why you . . .

Prabhupāda: So if, in America, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is preached, why you are envious?

Indian man (4): Why . . .?

Prabhupāda: Why you are envious?

Indian man (4): I didn't follow you.

Prabhupāda: You do not like that this philosophy should be preached in America?

Indian man (4): Should be preached.

Prabhupāda: Then?

Indian man (4): But why they are not in all these histories?

Prabhupāda: That . . .

Indian man (4): There is no history at all. Even in the United States also there is no mention that Lord Viṣṇu or Lord Kṛṣṇa . . . (indistinct) . . . like that, and They were also . . .

Prabhupāda: Have you read . . . have you read Kṛṣṇa's book, Bhagavad-gītā?

Indian man (4): To some extent.

Prabhupāda: Then you do not know what Kṛṣṇa says that, "Everyone, My son." Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ , tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma ahaṁ bīja-prada . . . (BG 14.4) Kṛṣṇa claims everyone—American, Indians, birds, beasts—everyone, His son. You do not know the philosophy.

Indian man (4): The Gītā is coming out of India. That is my question.

Prabhupāda: So it is . . . therefore because it is made in India, it should not be accepted?

Indian man (4): Not like that.

Prabhupāda: Then what is your philosophy, I do not know.

Indian man (4): There is no mention of . . .

Prabhupāda: What is your philosophy? I do not know.

Śyāmasundara: He says because there is no history books . . .

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Śyāmasundara: There are no history books from the West showing Kṛṣṇa used to live in the West, or that He ever was in the West.

Prabhupāda: So . . . there is history; the Christians believe, God. So Kṛṣṇa is God. So what is the difference? Kṛṣṇa is God. So do they not believe in God in the Western histories?

Indian man (4): They believe.

Prabhupāda: Then that's all right. Now, they believed in God. Now we are giving that "Here is God." That is the difference only. They believed in God, but they did not know . . .

Indian man (4): . . . there only the Lord existed.

Prabhupāda: What is that? (laughter)

Devotee: Some rascal philosophy. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . understand. They . . . (break) . . . God. Now we are giving, "Here is God. Here is the name and address of God." What is the difference?

Indian man (4): I'm not asking about that or anything. In India, about God it is . . .

Prabhupāda: India! Why you are thinking in India? God is not for India or American. God is for everyone.

Indian man (4): Then why varṇāśrama-dharma, there also, they are prevailed, that brāhmin, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra?

Prabhupāda: Yes. They prevailed. They also went from India. That is the history. There were . . . all the kṣatriyas, they went to Europe and America. That is in the Mahābhārata history. They were also on the Vedic culture.

Now they have lost. Just like recent, we have got experience, within twenty years, some of the Hindus who became Muhammadan, and they become Pakistani. But twenty years before, they were not Pakistan. So gradually this misconception is increasing. Otherwise, there was one. One God, one civilization, everything, there was one. (break)

Indian (5): We have come to the world as the servant of Lord Kṛṣṇa, but then why should we think that . . . why should we think that we are Kṛṣṇa's . . .?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Devotee: Why should we . . . He said . . . you say that we are all come to this earth as servants of Kṛṣṇa. So why should we think that we are Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Who thinks we are Kṛṣṇa? We do not think. We do not think like that.

Devotee: Belong to Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee (2): We are Kṛṣṇa's.

Prabhupāda: We are servants of Kṛṣṇa. We are Kṛṣṇa's. Just like you are son of your father, similarly, we are servants of Kṛṣṇa. We are not Kṛṣṇa. Who says that we are Kṛṣṇa? We do not say. We are servants of Kṛṣṇa.

Indian man (6): (indistinct) . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Where is the difficulty? This is the short cut. This is the shortest cut.

Indian man (6): Only naam. (Only name.)

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian man (6): Only Bhagavan ka naam. (Only God's names.)

Prabhupāda: Bas. (That's it.)

harer nāma harer nāma

harer nāmaiva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva

nāsty eva

(CC Adi 17.21).

Yehi nam se sab apko upkar ho jayega. (Only by this name, you will get all the benefits.)

Indian man (6): Aur dhyan ka marg . . . (And the path of meditation . . .) (break) (end)