730805 - Lecture BG 02.04-5 - London

Lectures by Date, 1973

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

730805BG-LONDON - August 05, 1973 - 26:15 Minutes

Pradyumna: (leads chanting of verse) (Prabhupāda and devotees repeat)

arjuna uvāca

kathaṁ bhīṣmam aham saṅkhye

droṇaṁ ca madhusūdana

iṣubhiḥ pratiyotsyāmi

pūjārhāv ari-sūdana

(BG 2.4)

(break)

gurūn ahatvā hi mahānubhāvān

śreyo bhoktuṁ bhaikṣyam apīha loke

hatvārtha-kāmāṁs tu gurūn ihaiva

bhuñjīya bhogān rudhira-pradigdhān

(BG 2.5)

(break)

"It is better to live in this world by begging than to live at the cost of the lives of great souls who are my teachers. Even though they are avaricious, they are nonetheless superiors. If they are killed, our spoils will be tainted with blood."

Prabhupāda: Hm. So the first problem was, for Arjuna, how to kill the kinsmen, family men. Now, when he was chastised by Kṛṣṇa as a friend, that "Why you are so weak? Don't be weak. This is sentiment. This kind of compassion is sentiment. Uttiṣṭha. You better get up and fight . . ." But we can . . . if I do not want to do something, I can offer so many pleas. You see? So next he is presenting, gurūn: "All right, Kṛṣṇa, You are talking about my kinsmen. I accept that it is my weakness. But how do You advise me to kill my guru? Droṇācārya is my guru. And Bhīṣmadeva is also my guru. So do You want me to kill my guru?" Gurūn hi hatvā. "And not only ordinary guru.

This is not that they are ordinary men." Mahānubhāvān. "Bhīṣma is a great devotee, and similarly, Droṇācārya also, a great personality." Mahānubhāvān. So kathaṁ bhīṣmam ahaṁ saṅkhye droṇaṁ ca madhusūdana (BG 2.4): "They are two great personalities. They are not only my gurus, but they are great personality." And Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is addressed "Madhusūdana." Madhusūdana means . . . Madhu was Kṛṣṇa's enemy, a demon. So He killed. So "You are Madhusūdana, You are killer of Your enemies. Can You give me any evidence that You have killed Your guru? So why You are asking me?" This is the purport. Iṣubhiḥ pratiyotsyāmi pūjārhāv ari-sūdana. Again ari-sūdana. Ari means enemy. Madhusūdana, particularly "the killer of the Madhu demon." And next is Arisudana. Ari means enemy.

So Kṛṣṇa has killed so many demons, ari, who came to fight with Him as enemy. Therefore His name is Arisudana. So Kṛṣṇa has got enemies also, what to speak of ourself. This material world is so made that you must have some enemies. Matsaratā. Matsaratā means enviousness, jealousy. This material world is like that. So there are jealous enemies of God also. They are called demons. Ordinary jealousy or enemy, that is natural. But even to God. Just like yesterday night, evening, somebody came to see me. He was arguing that, "Why Kṛṣṇa should be accepted as God?" That was his argument. So Kṛṣṇa has enemies.

Therefore Kṛṣṇa . . . not only He, but everyone who is in the material world is enemy of Kṛṣṇa. Everyone. Because they want to be competitor of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says that bhoktāram: "I am the supreme enjoyer." Sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29): "I am the Supreme proprietor." And the Vedas also confirm, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1): "Everything is the property of the Supreme Lord." Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. These are Vedic injunctions. Yato vā imāni bhūtāni jāyante: "From whom everything has come." Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). These are Vedic versions. But still, we, because we are enemies, "No, why Kṛṣṇa shall be the proprietor? I am the proprietor. Why Kṛṣṇa shall be God only? I have got another God. Here is another God."

So Kṛṣṇa has enemies. Arisudana. And He has to kill them. Kṛṣṇa has got two businesses: paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtam (BG 4.8). Miscreants. They are miscreants. The demons who challenge Kṛṣṇa, who wants to compete with Kṛṣṇa, who want to share with the property of Kṛṣṇa, they are all enemies of Kṛṣṇa, and they should be killed. So killing business is all right here for the enemies, not ordinarily. Then the next question is, "All right, enemies you can kill, admitted. But how You advise me to kill my gurus?" Gurūn ahatvā. But if for Kṛṣṇa's sake, if there is need, you have to kill your guru also. That is the philosophy. For Kṛṣṇa's sake. If Kṛṣṇa wants, then you cannot . . . if Kṛṣṇa wants that you should kill your guru, then you have to do it. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Of course, Kṛṣṇa will not ask you to kill guru, but . . . because guru and Kṛṣṇa is the same. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya (CC Madhya 19.151). We get Kṛṣṇa consciousness through the mercy of guru and Kṛṣṇa.

So real guru is never to be killed, but the so-called guru has to be killed. The so-called, pseudo guru, false guru, he should be killed. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. While Prahlāda Mahārāja . . . he was standing. Here is . . . Nṛsiṁhadeva is killing his father. Father is guru. Sarva-devamayo guruḥ (SB 11.17.27). Similarly, father is also guru, at least, official guru. Materially he is guru. So how Prahlāda Mahārāja allowed Nṛsiṁha-deva to kill his guru? He's father. Everyone knows that Hiraṇyakaśipu is father. Would you like to see that your father is being killed by some person, and you'll stand? You will not protest? Is that your duty? No, that is not your duty. When your father is attacked, you must protest. At least, if you are unable, you must fight. You first of all lay down your life: "How is that, my father is being killed in my front?"

That is your duty. But Prahlāda Mahārāja did not protest. He could have requested—he is devotee—"My dear Sir, Prabhu, my Lord, You can excuse my father." He did it. But he knew that, "My father is not being killed. It is the body of the father." Later on he begged for his father in a different way. First of all, when Nṛsiṁha-deva was angry, He was killing the body, he knew that "The body is not my father. The soul is my father. So let the Lord satisfy Himself by killing the body of my father; then I shall save him."

So Prahlāda Mahārāja . . . Nṛsiṁhadeva offered Prahlāda Mahārāja, "Now you can take any kind of benediction you like." So Prahlāda Mahārāja replied: "My Lord, we are materialists. I am born of a father absolutely materialist. So I am also, because I am born of a materialist father, I am also materialist. And You, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, You are offering to give me some benediction. I can take any kind of benediction from You. I know that. But what is the use of it? Why shall I ask You for any benediction? I have seen my father."

"Materially, he was so powerful that even the demigods, Indra, Candra, Varuṇa, they were threatened by his red eyes. And he gained over control over the universe. He was so powerful. And riches, wealth, power, reputation, everything complete. But You have finished it in one second. So why You are offering me such benediction? What shall I do with them? If I take that benediction from You and I become puffed up and do everything wrong against You, then You can finish it within a second. So kindly do not offer me such benediction, such material opulence. Better give me benediction to be engaged in the service of Your servant. I want this benediction. Let me be benedicted by You that I may be engaged in the service of Your servant, not directly Your servant."

Then, after many prayers, after pacifying the Lord . . . He was very angry. Then when He is . . . He was little pacified, he asked, "My dear Lord, I can ask You one, another benediction: that my father was very, very staunch enemy of You. That was the cause of his death. Now I ask You, kindly excuse him and give him liberation." This is Vaiṣṇava son. He did not ask anything for himself. And although he knew that his father was the greatest enemy, still, he is asking his benediction, "This poor fellow may be liberated." So Lord Nṛsiṁha-deva guaranteed, said: "My dear Prahlāda, not only your father, but your father's father, his father, up to fourteen generations, all are liberated because you are born in this family."

So anyone who has become a Vaiṣṇava, a devotee of the Lord, he is giving the greatest service to the family. Because in relationship with him, his father, mother, anyone, they will be liberated. Just like we have got experience: if a person dies in the fight immaturely, his family is taken care of by the government. Similarly, to become a devotee is the greatest qualification. He has got everything. Yatra yogeśvaro hariḥ yatra dhanur-dharaḥ pārthaḥ (BG 18.78). When there is Kṛṣṇa and when there is devotee, all victory, all glories are there. That is guaranteed.

So gurūn ahatvā. A devotee of Kṛṣṇa, if need be, if he's unqualified guru . . . unqualified guru means who does not know how to guide the disciple. Guru's duty is to guide. So such kind of guru can be at least rejected. That is Jīva Gosvāmī's . . . kārya-kāryam ajānataḥ. A guru who does not know what to do and what not to do, but I mistake, by mistakenly I have accepted somebody as guru, he can be rejected. By rejecting him, you can accept a actual bona fide guru. So guru is not killed, but he can be rejected. That is the injunction of the śāstra. So Bhīṣmadeva or Droṇācārya, certainly they were gurus, but Kṛṣṇa indirectly giving indication to Arjuna that, "Although they are in the position of guru, you can reject them." Kārya-kāryam ajānataḥ. "They do not know factually."

This Bhīṣmadeva, he materially considered his position. He knew everything from the beginning, that the Pāṇḍavas, they were parentless, fatherless children, and he raised them from the very beginning. Not only that; he was so much affectionate to the Pāṇḍavas that he was thinking, when they were sent to forest, banished, at that time Bhīṣmadeva was crying that, "These five boys, they are so pure, so honest, and not only pure and honest, so powerful warriors, Arjuna and Bhīma. And this Draupadī is practically directly the goddess of fortune. And they have got their friend, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. And they are suffering?" He cried. He was such affectionate. Therefore Arjuna is considering, "How can I kill Bhīṣma?"

But duty is so strong. Kṛṣṇa is advising, "Yes, he must be killed because he has gone . . . he has gone to the other side. He has forgotten his duty. He should have joined you. Therefore he is no more in the position of guru. You must kill him. He has wrongly joined the other party. Therefore there is no harm, killing him. Similarly Droṇācārya. Similarly Droṇācārya. I know they are great personalities, they have got great affection. But only on material consideration they have gone there."

What is that material consideration? Bhīṣma thought that, "I am maintained by the money of Duryodhana. Duryodhana is maintaining me. Now he is in danger. If I go to the other side, then I should be ungrateful. He has maintained me so long. And if I, in the time of danger, when there is fighting, if I go to the other side, that will be . . ." He thought like this. He did not think that "Duryodhana may be maintaining, but he has usurped the property of the Pāṇḍavas." But it is his greatness. He knew that Arjuna will never be killed, because Kṛṣṇa is there. "So from material point of view, I must be grateful to Duryodhana." The same position was for Droṇācārya. They were maintained.

Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said that viṣayīra anna khāile malīna haya mana (CC Antya 6.278): such great personalities became darkened because they took money from them, anna. If I am provided by somebody who is too much materialist, then that will affect me. I will become also materialist. I will also become materialist. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu has warned that, "Those who are viṣayī, those who are not devotees, do not accept anything from them, because it will," I mean to say, "make your mind unclean."

So therefore a brāhmaṇa and Vaiṣṇava, they do not accept directly money. They accept bhikṣā. Bhikṣā. Bhikṣā you can . . . just like here it is said bhaikṣyam. Śreyo bhoktuṁ bhaikṣyam apīha loke (BG 2.5). When you ask somebody . . . still, bhikṣā is also sometimes prohibited from a person who is too much materialist. But bhikṣā is allowed for sannyāsīs, for brāhmaṇa.

So therefore Arjuna is speaking that, "Instead of killing such great gurus, who are so great personalities, mahānubhāvān . . ." So bhaikṣyam. For a kṣatriya . . . a brāhmaṇa, a sannyāsī can beg, can beg alms, but not a kṣatriya, not a vaiśya. That is not allowed. So he was a kṣatriya, Arjuna. So he says: "Better I shall take the profession of a brāhmaṇa and beg from door to door instead of enjoy the kingdom by killing my guru." That was his proposal.

So on the whole, Arjuna is illusioned—illusioned in the sense that he is forgetting his duty. He is a kṣatriya, his duty is to fight; never mind the opposite party, even he is son, a kṣatriya will not hesitate to kill his son even, if he is inimical. Similarly, a son, if the father is inimical, he would not hesitate to kill his father. This is the stringent duty of the kṣatriyas; no consideration.

A kṣatriya cannot consider like that. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said, klaibyam: "You don't be coward. Why you are becoming coward?" These topics are going on. Later on, Kṛṣṇa will give him real spiritual instruction. This is . . . ordinary talks are going on between the friend and the friend.

That's all right. Thank you. (end)