731023 - Lecture BG 13.24 - Bombay

Lectures by Date, 1973

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

731023BG-BOMBAY - October 23, 1973 - 23:00 Minutes

Pradyumna: Translation: "One who understands this philosophy concerning material nature, the living entity and the interaction of the modes of nature is sure to attain liberation. He will not take birth here again, regardless of his present position." (BG 13.24)

Prabhupāda: So the aim of life is always being stressed by Kṛṣṇa, to stop this process of undergoing different changes of body. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). (loud sound of firecrackers throughout) Na bhūyo 'bhijāyate. In many places Kṛṣṇa has said this. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). This is the aim of life. But people are misled by the blind leaders.

We can say rascal leaders, but it may be very strong language. Kṛṣṇa has said. All persons who are not interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all such persons have been described as mūḍhas, rascals. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Narādhamāḥ. He has chastised and used very strong words. Ajasram andha-yoniṣu (BG 16.19): "I push them in the darkest region of material existence." Actually that is happening. People without God consciousness, without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, gradually becoming entrapped in ignorance.

The such important life, human form of life, nobody is interested to know about the philosophy of the life, value of life. They have become so frivolous. In this evening, everyone is engaged in childish activities, but nobody is interested in the real problem of life. The real problem of life is stated, na bhūyaḥ abhijāyate, big, big leaders . . . ask them what is the real problem of life. They do not know. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31).

(aside) Who is talking, this child?

Durāśayā, "expectation which will never be fulfilled." Never be fulfilled. They are trying to adjust things by so-called material adjustment, and that will not be. Therefore it is said durāśayā. Āśayā means "hope," and durā means "never to be fulfilled; far, far away." Durāśayā. Without God consciousness, without stopping the process of birth and death, you cannot be happy. That is not possibility.

But they have become so foolish. They are thinking that this duration of life, say fifty or sixty years, that's all. After this . . . big, big leaders, they say like that, that "After death, there is no life. Everything is finished." Big, big professors, big, big learned scholars, they are of this opinion, that after death there is no life. Everything is finished. And wherefrom all these different forms of life come, they cannot answer. There are 8,400,000 forms of life. Wherefrom they come? What is the purpose of so many forms of life? What is the purpose of life? What is the distinction between the form of human life and these lower grades of life, higher grades of life? No knowledge. No knowledge. Everyone is ignorant, foolish. Therefore they have been addressed as mūḍha, mūḍha, all rascals. If we say that "This is a civilization of rascals," it is not very strong word. Actually, they are rascals. They do not know the value of life and the real problem of life. Simply like animals they are eating, sleeping, having sex life and dying. That's all. This is their life.

So one has to learn. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, ya evaṁ vetti puruṣaṁ prakṛtim (BG 13.24). You must learn what is this living entity. That also we do not know. Prakṛti. This body is prakṛti, and the living force which is within the body, that is puruṣa. And there are two kinds of puruṣas—the living entity and the Supersoul, Paramātmā, ātmā and Paramātmā. The ātmā is creating his own field of activities; Paramātmā is observing only, "What you are doing?" These things we have already discussed. Upadraṣṭā anumantā. The paramātma-puruṣa is upadraṣṭā, overseeing your activities. You want to do something, but without His permission, you cannot do. Upadraṣṭā anumantā ca bhartā. He is the maintainer.

Therefore we must know. This is knowledge. This is knowledge. This body, kṣetra, the owner of the body, kṣetra-jña, and the proprietor of the body, the Paramātmā, the owner of the body, we have already discussed all these things. You should remember very nicely. That is real knowledge, jñānam. What is the process of knowledge? Amānitvam adambhitvaṁ kṣāntir ārjavam ācāryopāsanaṁ bhakti-yogam (BG 13.8). To know the problems of life, this is knowledge. The aim of life. The aim of life is not to take birth again. So who is understanding all these things? Nobody is interested. Simply they are interested in the animalistic way of life. That's all. Just like animals. But Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa, says that, "One should know this." Ya evaṁ vetti puruṣaṁ prakṛtiṁ ca guṇaiḥ . . . and the qualities of the prakṛti: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Guṇaiḥ saha. Simply know the earth, water, air, fire.

Just like modern scientists, they are trying to understand. Scientific laboratory means they are analytically studying earth, water, air, physical. Physical studies. Metaphysical. Not metaphysical; physical, physical studies. But they do not know that there are other things of the physical world. That is guṇa. Traiguṇya-viṣayā vedā nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna (BG 2.45). How physical changes are taking place, how one physical element is valuable, one physical element is not valuable—that is due to different interaction of the modes of material nature, guṇa. Guṇaiḥ saha. So simply physical elementary study is not sufficient. You must know the guṇaiḥ saha, how the qualities are acting.

Ya evaṁ vetti puruṣaṁ prakṛtiṁ ca guṇaiḥ saha, sarvathā vartamāno 'pi. If you have got sufficient knowledge . . . the knowledge is there the Bhagavad-gītā. Simply you have to study. You have to take lessons from the Bhagavad-gītā from the right person. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). You must learn from a guru who is actually in knowledge of this Vedic literatures, śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. And what is the symptom of such knowledge? Brahma-niṣṭham, firmly fixed up in Brahman. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). To know Brahman means to know not only the impersonal brahma-jyotir, but also Paramātmā and Bhagavān. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. This is knowledge.

So such person who has got sufficient knowledge what is this prakṛti, material world, what is the puruṣa, the living entity who is trying to enjoy this material world, and the paramātma-puruṣa, another puruṣa . . .

upadraṣṭānumantā ca

bhartā bhoktā maheśvaraḥ

paramātmeti cāpy ukto

dehe 'smin puruṣaḥ paraḥ

(BG 13.23)

Those who have no knowledge, they cannot understand there are two puruṣas. One is apara, and one is para. Apara-puruṣa is the living entity, who is trying to enjoy this material world. But para-puruṣa is the anumantā, guiding principle, or order-giving. There are two puruṣas, not one. One is inferior and other is superior. Superior puruṣa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa Himself. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). That is puruṣa-parā. And aparā. As there are aparā-prakṛti and parā-prakṛti. This material world is aparā-prakṛti, but there is spiritual world also. That is called parā-prakṛti.

When there is such a statement in the Vedas that "The Supreme Spirit is nirākāra, or without form," that does not mean He has no form. He has His form, but that is spiritual form, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). When it is negativated, that means the negative idea is of this inferior energy. So these things we should know. And if you know, then the result will be sarvathā vartamāno 'pi, wherever you stay, sarvathā vartamāno 'pi, you are mukta. As it is stated by Rūpa Gosvāmī, īhā yasya harer dāsye . . .

(aside) Stop that talking.

īhā yasya harer dāsye

karmaṇā manasā girā

nikhilāsv apy avasthāsu

jīvan-muktaḥ sa ucyate

(Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.187)

This stage can be attained mainly in the bhakti-yoga. Bhakti-yoga means one who has understood everything very perfectly. Sometimes foolish people say that, "Bhakti-yoga is meant for the less intelligent class of men." But he is less intelligent. Unless one is very, very intelligent, he cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore Caitanya-caritāmṛta author says, kṛṣṇa yei bhaje sei baḍa catura: "Unless one is very intelligent, he cannot become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa." Because he knows everything. That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā:

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

(BG 18.54)

One who is actually devotee, parām, parā-bhakti, he is already brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20), liberated, self-realized. Without being self-realized, nobody can attain unalloyed devotional platform. Bhakti means the platform where only liberated person can act. That is bhakti platform. Īhā yasya, those who are always working for Kṛṣṇa. Īhā, īhā means desire. Yasya, harer dāsye: just to serve Kṛṣṇa. He has no other business. Just like these boys and girls who have joined Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement from Europe and America, they have no other business. They are simply engaged in executing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Īhā yasya harer dāsye. karmaṇā, by working; manasā, thinking; karmaṇā manasā vācā, by preaching. karmaṇā manasā vācā.

Because we have got three things to act. We can act with our senses, karma. So karma, the karmīs are also working, and the devotees are also working, but karmīs are working—their words and mind is differently engaged, because they are working very hard day and night, but they are thinking of, manasā, sense gratification. karmaṇā manasā vācā. And they are talking only sense gratification. Therefore their mind and words are engaged differently. But one whose mind, words and activities are engaged in the service of the Lord, īhā yasya harer dāsye karmaṇā manasā vācā, so he may be situated in any position, jīvan-mukta sa ucyate, he is liberated. The same thing is confirmed here: sarvathā vartamāno 'pi na sa bhūyo 'bhijāyate.

Unless he is liberated, how he can stop his next birth? Here it is clearly said, na bhūyaḥ abhijāyate. Abhijāyate means to take birth again, to accept another material body. That . . . unless you become liberated, mukta, you have to accept a material body. Mukti means to stop accepting this material body. That is called mukti. To remain in a spiritual body. But they do not know even what is spiritual body, what is material body. Simply like cats and dogs, they are engaged in sense gratification, eating, sleeping, mating. And this Bhagavad-gītā is the A-B-C-D, preliminary knowledge of spiritual understanding. People are unaware of. And misleaders, they give misinformation, mal-interpretation. And there are so many people, they are very much proud. He has read Bhagavad-gītā hundred times, but he does not know anything. He does not know anything.

The difficulty is that the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, they do not follow. The instruction of Bhagavad-gītā is evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). One has to learn from the disciplic succession. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). You have to learn from a person by full surrender. You cannot surrender to a third-class man. Unless one is very advanced, naturally you surrender. But this is the process. Unless you are prepared to surrender . . . surrender means you approach somebody where your intelligence is nothing; therefore you have to surrender. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā.

Sevā and dayā. There are two words. Sevā is offered to the superior person, sevā, service. And dayā is offered to an inferior person. Who is less than you—he requires your mercy—that is dayā. But who is superior than you—who requires your service—that is called sevā. This is the difference between sevā and dayā. But people do not know. They are trying to amalgamate dayā and sevā. No. Dayā to the inferior person. Just like a child, he requires your dayā, the dayā of the parents, mercy of the parents. But a guru, he requires your sevā, service. So you have to approach, sevā, praṇipāta, surrender, sevā; then you can question. Don't question unnecessarily, waste your time, where you cannot surrender, where you cannot render your service. This is the process. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). Then you can derive some benefit from the realized person. Upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ.

Knowledge can be distributed by a person who has seen what is . . . who has experienced seeing . . . seeing and hearing, these are the sources of gaining experience. So the śruti means hearing. And by hearing you will see. By hearing about God, Kṛṣṇa, ultimately you will see Him. When, by hearing, hearing, you'll develop your Kṛṣṇa consciousness . . . ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83). Hearing is possible by association with devotees, sādhu-saṅga. You cannot hear from the rascals. You have to hear from the superior person, one who is self-realized. Hearing. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ (SB 3.25.25). Satāṁ prasaṅgāt. By association with superior devotees that you can . . .

(break) . . . apavarga-vartmani, on the path of liberation, śraddhā bhaktir ratir anukramiṣyati (SB 3.25.25). Then śraddhā, bhakti, attachment, rati, anukrama, one by after another, one by after another. Yes. So this is the process. But the age is so . . . Kali-yuga is so fallen that people have lost all interest to understand the problem of life, how to solve them, how to attain to the platform of knowledge. They are not interested.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees: Haribol . . .

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa . . . (indistinct) . . . (end)