731026 - Departure - Bombay

Conversations by Date, 1973

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

731026DP-BOMBAY - October 26, 1973 - 18:11 Minutes

Prabhupāda: So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to educate people to understand the value of life. The modern system of education and civilization is so degraded that people have forgotten the value of life. Generally, in this material world, everyone is forgetful of the value of life, but the human form of life is a chance to awaken the importance of life.

In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is stated, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam (SB 5.5.5). So long one is not awakened to the consciousness of self-realization, the foolish living entity, whatever he is doing is defeat for him. This defeat is going on in the lower species of life because they cannot understand what is the value of life.

Their consciousness is not advanced. But even in the human form of life, the same defeat prolongs, that is not very good civilization. That is almost animal civilization. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca samānyā etat paśubhir narāṇām (Hitopadeśa 25). If people are simply engaged in the four principles of bodily demands—eating, sleeping, mating and defending—that is visible in animal life also, so that is not very advancement of civilization.

So our attempt, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is to educate people to come to the responsibility of human life. This is our Vedic civilization. The problem of life is not the difficulties for a few years of this duration of life. The real problem of life is how to solve the repetition of birth, death, old age and disease. That is the instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). People are embarrassed with so many problems of life, but the real problem of life is how to stop birth, death, old age and disease. So people are callous. They have become so dull-headed that they do not understand the problem of life.

Long, long ago, when Viśvāmitra Muni saw Mahārāja Daśaratha, so Mahārāja Daśaratha inquired from the Viśvāmitra Muni, aihisthaṁ yat taṁ punar-janma-jayāya: "My dear sir, the attempt that you are trying to conquer over death, how that business is going on nicely? Is there any interruption?" So this is our Vedic civilization, how to conquer over birth, death, old age and disease. But at the modern time there is no such information, neither anybody is interested. Even big, big professors, they do not know what is there after life. They do not believe even that there is life after death.

So this is a blind civilization going on. We are trying our bit to educate them that the aim of life, especially in the human form of life, is different from the bodily necessities of life: eating, sleeping, mating and defending. In the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3): "Out of many millions of persons, one may attempt to become successful in his life." Siddhaye, siddhi. This is siddhi, how to conquer over birth, death, old age and disease. And manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye.

The modern civilized man is so dull, he does not know what is siddhi. They think that "If I get some money and one bungalow and one car, that is siddhi." That is not siddhi. You can get a few years a very nice bungalow, a car, nice family, but any moment this arrangement will be finished and you have to accept another body. That you do not know. And neither they do care to know it. So they have become so dull-headed, although they are very much proud of education, advancement of civilization.

But we are protesting. We are protesting. I am not protesting; Kṛṣṇa is protesting.

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛta-jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

(BG 7.15)

These rascals, lowest of the mankind and always engaged in sinful activities, such persons do not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "No. There are so many educated M.A., Ph.D.s." Kṛṣṇa says, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ: "Apparently they are very educated, but their real knowledge is taken away by māyā." Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. This atheistic civilization is very dangerous. People are suffering for this reason. But they are not very serious. Therefore they have been addressed by Kṛṣṇa as mūḍhāḥ, rascals. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ.

So we are trying a little bit to make these mūḍhas, mūḍha civilization, to come into light of spiritual life. That is our humble attempt. But it is already said, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3): "Out of many millions of persons, they can take to it." Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye. But that does not mean we shall stop. Just like in our school, college days, Sir Asutosh Mukherjee started some higher study, postgraduate study classes, in the university. The student was one or two, but still, the class was maintained at the cost of many thousands of rupees, not considering that there are only one student or two student. Similarly, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement must go on. It doesn't matter, the foolish people, they do not understand it or do not come to it. We have to make our propaganda.

Thank you very much. Any question, we can answer. Is there any press representative here? No. No.

Brahmānanda: We called them. We gave them invitation to come to a press meeting.

Śyāmasundara: We could distribute this, talk to the press.

Prabhupāda: They are not interested, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They clearly says that, "What this Kṛṣṇa consciousness or saṅkīrtana will do?" They says, yes. (laughs) They have become so dull. The Bhagavad-gītā, the culture of India, they have forsaken. They are now taking culture from Russia. Yes. This is the advancement of education. They are taking instruction from Lenin than from Kṛṣṇa. This is the position. Especially in India. Outside India they are interested, so many European, American, Western countries' boys and girls, they have joined and sacrificed their life. But in India they are callous. They think that "What is this Hare Kṛṣṇa? We know that. It is very old story. Now we want technology."

Guest (1) (Indian man): I think mostly there the people are beginning to become helpful. In Delhi we have got quite a big number of good Life Members and helpful people.

Prabhupāda: Yes, there are, certainly. India is born Kṛṣṇa conscious, but by artificial means . . . amongst the mass of people the Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there, but amongst the so-called educated, advanced, they are trying to forget. This is the difficulty.

Guest (1): Physical life has become so difficult . . .

Prabhupāda: Han? (What?)

Guest (1): Physical life has become so difficult.

Prabhupāda: It must be difficult. It must be difficult, because the so-called advancement has not helped the people. In our childhood we purchased ghee one rupee, first class. Now it is not available. And this is the advancement of civilization.

Guest (1): The population has increased so much.

Prabhupāda: No, no, this is not the question, population. Population was . . . formerly one man used to beget one hundred children. From Mahābhārata we understand that Dhṛtarāṣṭra, his name is mentioned because he was king. That means at that time people were able to beget one hundred children. And who is begetting one hundred children now? One, two, three, four, that's all. How the population can be increased now? It is all bogus propaganda.

Guest (1): What then do you think is the solution of these difficulties?

Prabhupāda: Solution of difficulty is to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

(BG 7.14)

Māyā . . . just like if there are criminals, then the police force will be increased, punishment will be increased. So similarly, human beings, they are becoming godless, so by nature there must be punishment. They will not be supplied food. The food supply will be restricted. After all, the food is in the hands of nature. You cannot produce food. You can produce bolts and nuts in the factory, but you cannot eat bolts and nuts. You have to eat rice and grains. So that restriction if there is . . . Aiye, baithiye. (Please come and sit.)

The solution is to . . . back to home, back to Godhead. Otherwise there is no solution. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). The stringent laws of māyā is very strong. You cannot surpass them. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. If you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it is possible to get out of this entanglement. Otherwise, it is not possible. They have tried so many ways and means to solve the problems, but they could not do anything.

Guest (1): Yes, corruption in the politics . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, corruption will increase, sinful life increase, cheating. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyāḥ (SB 1.1.10). Misfortune. These things will increase.

Guest (1): Adulteration of food.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Even government cannot give nice food to the people, what to speak of nice government. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam . . .

(aside) You have got the copy?

Pradyumna: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Ādya. During Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's reign everything was ample supply. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). You have got that verse?

Pradyumna: I just have the black one.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). During Mahārāja Parīkṣit's time, one black man was attempted to kill a cow. Immediately the king wanted to kill him, immediately: "Oh, who are you?" It is the duty of the vaiśyas. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam vaiśya-karma-svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). It is the duty of the vaiśyas to protect the cows, to increase agricultural activities and trade. But they are now interested in producing electronic parts. No go-rakṣya, no vāṇijyam, no food production. Cheap profit, and for eating, let there be slaughterhouse and eat meat. And to digest meat, you drink wine. This is being taught. So you create the situation, and when we suffer, then why should we lament? We have created this situation, godless civilization, do not follow the direction of the śāstras. When we follow . . . what is that kāmam?

Pradyumna:

kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ

sarva-kāma-dughā mahī

siṣicuḥ sma vrajān gāvaḥ

payasodhasvatīr mudā

(SB 1.10.4)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ. So if there is regular rainfall, then you get all necessities of life. And the cows were so happy that the milk bag was so full that the pasturing ground became muddy with milk. They were supplying so much milk. So arrangement should be made how you can get more milk and more food grains.

Then the whole economic problem will be solved. But instead of getting more milk, they are slaughtering cows, innocent animals. So people have become demons, rascals, so they must suffer. There is no other way. (end)