740627 - Lecture BG 03.27 at Town Hall - Melbourne

Lectures by Date, 1974

740627BG-MELBOURNE - June 27, 1974 - 69:39 Minutes

Prabhupāda: Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. (devotees repeat)

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

(BG 3.27)

Kṛṣṇa says that all these living entities . . . we are all living entities. Actually, every one of us is spirit soul, living entities. It does not matter whether I am a human being or other than human being—lower animal, birds, beasts, trees or higher celestial beings. There are many varieties of life, 8,400,000. Nine . . . jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi (Padma Purāṇa). In the water there are living entities of 900,000 varieties. We simply know that there are some fishes and crocodiles or sharks in the water, but śāstra, Vedic śāstras, they give definite information, how many forms and varieties of life are there within the water: 900,000. How many we have seen? Our scientist, our botanist, how many they have seen?

So actually you cannot have perfect knowledge by the experimental method. Now, if I say . . . I don't say, but the śāstra says there are 900,000 forms of aquatics. So you cannot say no, because you have no experience. You have no experience. But from the śāstra, Vedic literature, we get this information, Padma Purāṇa. We are not speaking unauthorizedly. The śāstras are accepted by the ācāryas, the great teachers. And we get knowledge from the śāstra. I may be imperfect, but I get knowledge from the perfect source. That is perfect knowledge.

Just like a child may ask his father that, "What is this?" because he is astonished that the sound is very loud. So the child may not know, so inquires from the father, "Father, what is this?" So father says: "My dear child, this is microphone. And when you speak through this machine, your sound becomes louder." So the child takes the knowledge from the father, and if he repeats or he understands firmly, "My father has said. It is perfectly right," then his knowledge is perfect. The child may be imperfect, but because he receives the knowledge from the authority, father, his knowledge is perfect.

So our Vedic process is like that. We do not make any research. It is not possible to come to the right knowledge by so-called research, because our senses are imperfect. Just like we see through the telescope and we come under certain conclusion, but the fact is that I am the same person seeing through the telescope, and telescope is also manufactured by me or by you. So machine is imperfect, and my seeing power is also imperfect. Then how you can have perfect knowledge? The machine is created by a person who has got imperfect knowledge, and the seer is also a person; he is also imperfect. The imperfect person is seeing through the imperfect machine. Then how we can conclude perfect knowledge? This is not possible.

Therefore the method is, according to the Vedic knowledge, that if you want perfect knowledge, then you should approach the perfect person. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). This is the Vedic injunction. If you want perfect knowledge, then you must approach a perfect person, guru. Now, at the present moment, there are so many gurus. How we will understand who is perfect? That is also another problem. So that perfection is . . . that I have already explained, that the child who has heard from his father that "This is microphone," and if he speaks that "This is microphone," then his knowledge is perfect. The child is not perfect, but because he has heard from the perfect authority, what he is speaking, although he is child, that is perfect. Similarly, this guru means who has heard from the perfect person. Therefore his knowledge is perfect, because he has heard. This is called paramparā system, or disciplic succession.

In this Bhagavad-gītā you will find in the Fourth Chapter Kṛṣṇa says, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Paramparā. Kṛṣṇa is the original person, perfect, and He says:

imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ

proktavān aham avyayam

vivasvān manave prāha

manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt

(BG 4.1)

evaṁ paramparā-prāptam

imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ

sa kāleneha . . .

yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa

(BG 4.2)

Kṛṣṇa is explaining to Arjuna. You will find these statement in the Fourth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa said that "This perfect knowledge of yoga system as I am explaining in this . . ." Now it is known, Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā means the . . . generally in this Western world they say, "Song of God." So Bhagavad-gītā is spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So He said that "This is not a new literature. Millions of years ago I spoke about this yoga system, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān . . . (BG 4.1). Proktavān means, "I said." Whom? Vivasvān. Vivasvān is the name of the sun-god, or the president of the sun planet. Just like here in this planet we have got presidents in each country. So now there are so many presidents. Formerly, even on this planet there was one president. They are trying to be united. The United Nation Organization, they want to unite. For the last twenty years the United Nations are trying to unite, but the result is we are disunited. Instead of making one flag, the flags are increasing every year: "This is Pakistan, this is Hindustan, this is this, this is that, this is . . ." They are not united. How they can be united? They cannot be united, because prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27), everyone is under the control of the material nature, full control.

So, so long we are in the material world, controlled by the external, material energy, there is no possibility of unity. That is not possible. Because, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ. In prakṛti, material nature, there are three different qualities: goodness, passion and ignorance. So the all the varieties of life, they are under the control of the material nature, and therefore you see varieties of life. Varieties. There are three qualities. You multiply three into three, it becomes nine. And if you multiply nine into nine, you become . . . you see eighty-one. So therefore all these varieties of life, they are being controlled, because . . . not controlled. He accepts to be controlled. Prakṛti does not want . . . nature does not want to control you.

Just like police force. Police force is not meant for controlling you. But when you accept to be controlled by police, when you become a criminal, then police force controls you, not that police force is made by the government unnecessarily to control you. No. He's to help you. Government has arranged policeman in every crossing. They are wandering in the street. They are meant for helping you. They are not meant for controlling you. But when you agree to be controlled by the police, then it will control you. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Then you become under the police control, if you become criminal. And what is that criminality? The criminality is that kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā (Prema-vivarta). Kṛṣṇa is the original enjoyer, God. When I speak "Kṛṣṇa," it means God. God has got many names according to different religious system. But the real name is Kristo. And you will be glad to understand that this Kristo, it is a Greek word, and it is a perverted pronunciation of Kṛṣṇa, this Greek word. The meaning of Kristo in Sanskrit dictionary and the Greek dictionary always the same, about this word. And from this Kristo the word has got Christo, or Christ. So even in Christian world the God's name is there—Jesus the Christ, or Jesus the son of Kristo, or Kṛṣṇa.

So Lord Jesus Christ said: "My Lord, hallowed be Thy name." He wants to glorify the name of the Lord. And some people says that there is no name of God. How? If Lord Jesus Christ says: "Hallowed be Thy name," there must be name. The name is there, but he did not pronounce it, because the people at that time will not be able to understand, or maybe some reason, but he says there is name. So we are making this propaganda, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, the "Hallowed be Thy name. My Lord Kṛṣṇa, the Personality of Godhead, let Your holy name be glorified." This is our movement.

It is not a sectarian . . . it is very scientific movement. Scientific movement because at the present moment we are all godless, forgotten what is God, and what to speak of His name. They do not believe in God, and what to speak of His name, fame, His place, His activities, His form, His quality. How we can know? There is no educational system about the science of God. This movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is teaching the science of God. And if you accept the name of the God, name of God, Kṛṣṇa—this is also affirmed in other system also—then you will be able to associate with God immediately. Because God is Absolute. Absolute means there is no difference.

Just like in the relative world . . . this is relative world. Material world means the relative world. Relative world means the son. As soon as I say: "The son," there must be a father. As soon as I say "friend," there must be another man, friend. As soon as I say "water," there must be something as water. But in the Absolute world, the name water and the water is the same. This is called Absolute, no different separation. So in the kingdom of God, the God is God and His son is also God. There the everything—there is no difference between the name and the substance. Here in this material world the name and the substance, different. Just like if I am thirsty, I want water. So the water must come to me. If I simply chant, "Water, water, water," that will not be effective, because it is relative world. But in the transcendental world, Kṛṣṇa is the name of God and it is God also. So by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, you are directly in contact with God. This is the meaning of Hare Kṛṣṇa. Directly in contact.

Now, if we imitate that, "These boys and girls are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is a name only. So let me chant . . . instead of Kṛṣṇa, let me chant John," but that chanting will not help you, because you cannot chant more than three, four times or ten times, that's all. But this is the proof. And this Hare Kṛṣṇa, this chanting, if you ask these boys and girls, they can chant continually for twenty-four hours in ecstasy, continually, without any stoppage. That is spiritual name. You cannot take any other name and chant and enjoy like that. So it is practical experience. I am touring all over the world, three times in a year, and because this chanting is Absolute, everyone is joining—Europe, America, Africa, Canada, Japan, China, everywhere. Nobody says that, "This is a word from India. Why shall I chant the Indian name?" No. It is God's name. God is neither Indian nor American nor otherwise, neither Christian nor Hindu nor Muslim. God is God.

So we are at the present moment rotting in this material world. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-sthaḥ. That is also mentioned in the Thirteenth Chapter. It is said that puruṣaḥ prakṛti-sthaḥ. Where is that verse? (aside) I told you to . . . puruṣaḥ prakṛti-sthaḥ? Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi. Yes.

puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi

bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān

kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya

sad-asad-yoni-janmasu

(BG 13.22)

Puruṣa. Puruṣa means the enjoyer. Every one of us sitting in this hall, we have got different mentality to enjoy differently—different dress, different mentality, different opinion—because every one of us, we are individual. So this individuality is both in spiritual world and the material world. But in the material world our individuality is different on account of associating or infecting different qualities of the material nature. Just like there are different types of patients in the hospital. Why? Because each and every one of them is infected by different types of germs of disease.

Here it is explained, puruṣa, the living entity, prakṛti-stha, being in this material world. Prakṛti means this material world. We do not belong to this material world. Just like a person in the prison house, he is a citizen, but when he goes into the prison house, he has got different sense, different, I mean, punishment, different dress. They are also dressed differently. So similarly, we are all criminals. Criminals. What is that criminality? Because we have forgotten God. This is criminality. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare (Prema-vivarta).

You will find in this practical experience. Suppose a boy is very rich man's son. But still, he thinks, "Why shall I live under the rules and regulation of my father? Let me go out. I shall enjoy life freely." Freely . . . what freedom? You are already rich man's son. You can enjoy the property of your very, very rich, powerful father, and what independence you will enjoy? This is criminality. This is criminality. We are sons of God, part and parcels of God, and God means almighty. So we have got almighty father, and leaving His place, I have come to this material world to enjoy independently. That is criminality. And we are suffering. That is explained here: prakṛti-stha, "Being placed in this material world," puruṣa, bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān, "he is enjoying, but the enjoying the quality of the modes of material nature."

Just like a tiger, he is also enjoying. He is thinking, "I am very strong. I have got so power, so much jaws and nails. I can jump over any animal and immediately kill him." He is pleased in that position. But you know the tiger or the lion, they are so unfortunate that they do not get daily food, in spite of becoming so strong. Because prakṛti-jān guṇān, he is under the influence of the material nature. He . . . the tiger may be very powerful, but he remains always hungry. Very powerful. Because the other animals, they know that in that corner of the forest there is tiger, nobody goes there. Where he can get food? Hardly chance. By chance he gets one animal and jumps over it. This is called prakṛti-jān guṇān. He thought, "By becoming tiger I shall be very much proud of enjoying," but prakṛti says, "No, sir, you cannot get even daily food. That is not possible." Therefore, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarva . . . (BG 3.27). Here the so-called tiger, so-called big men . . . just like in America, the president is a big man. But now he is put into such a condition that he is full of anxiety. At any moment he may be kicked out. This is the position. You cannot be happy either as President Nixon or tiger or cats and dogs or human being or Lord Brahmā. That is not possible. That is not possible. You must be full of anxieties, because this is unnatural life.

To understand that, "I am this body," this is foolishness. I am not this body. I am the soul within this body. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā in the Second Chapter: dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Dehī, the proprietor of the body. Just like you are the proprietor of your shirt and coat. You are not shirt and coat; you are the proprietor of the shirt and coat. You are dressed with shirt and coat in different colors and different shape. Similarly, the living entity—it does not matter whether he is a man or animal—he is part and parcel of God, but he desired certain dress or certain body, so prakṛti, nature, has given him. So this is going on. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi (BG 13.22).

Puruṣa means . . . he is not enjoyer, but he is thinking enjoyer. He is not enjoyer. At any moment his so-called enjoyment will be finished. Just like in the Western world they are thinking that "We are enjoying life." Of course, enjoying life in his consideration. But how long, sir, you will enjoy this life? You have got very nice car or very nice building, and you are enjoying as Australian, as American. That's all right. But how long you shall remain American and Australian? That question does not come to the dull brain, because he does not know that he is eternal. And this is temporary dress. I . . . somehow or other, I wanted this, and prakṛti, nature, has given me. But nature has not given me the right to remain as American, Australian, Indian. No. That is not possible. You wanted. You enjoyed this life for a certain time, and then again you create your desire. "Now I am very powerful, very happy. Let me love dog instead of God"—that means you are preparing your next life as dog, because it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that at the time of death the mentality which you have created throughout the whole life, that will carry you to other body, gross body. It is very scientific. Anta-kāle tu māṁ smaran.

So if you train up . . . you have got this facility of life, comfortable life. Do not misuse it for becoming next life a dog. Utilize it to become next life God. That is success. You have got advanced intelligence, but this intelligence is given to you for understanding God and your position that by forgetting God you are in this material world, and in this material world you are changing one body to another—sometimes American body, sometimes demigod's body, sometimes celestial body, sometimes dog's body, cat's body, tiger's body. This science is unknown.

But this is the science. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ ahaṅkāra (BG 3.27). We have got this body, that body, this body, under the direction of the prakṛti, material nature. So therefore intelligence is that, "If I am eternal . . ." na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You are not dying. Hanyamāne śarīre. That you can experience practically, daily. How is that? When you sleep at night, then you dream, means subtle body. So these activities of this gross body stop. You again work in the subtle body. You dream that you have gone to somewhere or in the forest or somewhere, somewhere, somewhere. But you forget that "My real body is lying in this bed." You do not remember. This is practical. So I change this, my self. I am soul. I change from this gross body lying on bed in a very nice apartment, skyscraper building, but I have gone to the forest, and I am affronting a big tiger and I'm crying. In this bed I am crying. The friends say: "Why you are crying?" "Tiger, tiger, tiger." Where is tiger? This is called subtle body. So you are changing daily at night from this gross body to the subtle body. And again, the dream is over, from the subtle body, again gross body. This, every one of us has got this experience.

Therefore I am the enjoyer, puruṣa. I am changing simply body, this way or that way. This is my position. So one who is intelligent, that "I change body and different bodies. I am eternal, so what is my eternal business?" this is athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is called inquiry of the spiritual life. This is very simple thing, that "I am simply changing body. Then what is my real position?" This is intelligent. When a man comes to this position or this platform, to inquire, "Actually what I am?" that is beginning of human life. Otherwise, it is animal life. The animal also thinks, "I am dog," "I am tiger," "I am king," or similarly, if I think, "I am Mr. Such-and-such," "I am president," "I am this or that," you are none of these, sir. These are all designation, for the temporary, for a certain period, ten years, five years, fifty years, utmost hundred years, then finished. But you are eternal.

So here it is said, puruṣa, "I am puruṣa. I am enjoying." So puruṣa prakṛti-sthaḥ. So long he is in this material body, he bhuṅkte. Bhuṅkte means enjoys. Not enjoyment. We think we are enjoying, but we are suffering actually. And because we cannot understand what is suffering . . . suffering there is. Sometimes we come to understand. But we are accepting this suffering as enjoying. A man is working very hard, very hard, whole day. He is . . . this is not enjoyment. You have got a car, but you are running at seventy miles' speed, going to your business, and there you are earning hundred and thousands of dollars. So you are thinking that you are enjoying. But this labor is suffering—you forget. And in order to forget this suffering, then I take to wine, take to this, take to that, to forget the suffering.

So actually we are suffering, but we are accepting it as enjoying. This is called illusion. So whatever we are doing in certain type of body in this material world, that is suffering. That is not enjoying. Because why you are placed? Because I wanted to enjoy life like that. So puruṣa prakṛti-stho hi bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān (BG 13.22). And this profit is nothing but acceptance of the quality of material nature. And that is very practical. We can understand. Just like we are getting . . . I get, say, fifty thousand dollar in a check. So I think that "I have got fifty thousand dollars." But what is this fifty thousand dollar? It is a piece of paper. You see? This is called illusion. In this way you study your life, you will see. If you are sober, if you are actually thoughtful, you will find that "This is not my life. This is not my life. But I am falsely thinking that I am enjoying life." Therefore frustration. Next stage is frustration. Everyone, we are frustrated because we are in this material world.

That, Prahlāda Mahārāja said, a great devotee, that . . . his father asked him, "My dear boy, what best thing you have learned?" He said: "My dear father . . ." He did not say "father." His father was first-class materialist. So he addressed him, "the best of the demons." Because anyone who is very much sensuous, very much attached to sense gratification, they are called demon. And those persons who do not indulge in sense gratification but utilize this body or this life for God realization, Kṛṣṇa realization, they are called gods. There are two classes of men: demon and god. Those who are engaged in God consciousness, they are not God, but godly. And those who are not . . . because this human life is meant for this purpose. Forgetting our father, forgetting our God, we are criminal within this material world. Therefore our only business is how to get out of this prison house and go back to home, back to Godhead. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to liberate these foolish persons who are entangled in this material world and changing one body after another, sometimes very happy and sometimes very distressed. This is going on.

Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said, tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehinām: "My dear father, or the best of the demons, you are asking me, so I say I have learned this. What is that? That these people who are always full of anxiety," asad-grahāt, "because they have accepted this material world," tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehināṁ sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt (SB 7.5.5), "these persons, either in human being or animal or bird and beasts—full of anxieties." If you bring one bird . . . he is free. You give some grains, he will come to eat, but he will look like this: "Nobody is coming to kill me. Nobody coming to kill me." Similarly, our position is . . . even President Nixon, he is also full of anxieties: "When I shall be dethroned? When I shall be dethroned? Let me take protection. Let me take . . ." Anyone, beginning from Lord Brahmā down to the small ant. You . . . there is ant is going. You stop it by your finger, he will struggle, "Why you are stopping? Why you are stopping, stopping?" This is the way. You will see the ants. When there is water, they carry their eggs on the head and they go on the wall, up. They have also got the same feeling, affection and anxiety, everything. And the human being or the best human being is Lord Brahmā in the topmost planet, whose life is millions and millions of years, he is also full of anxiety.

So Prahlāda Mahārāja said rightly that, "My dear best of the demons, so far I have learned that these living entities in different grades of life," sadā samudvigna-dhiyām, "always full of anxiety." Why? Asad-grahāt: "Because he has accepted this material body, therefore he must be full of anxiety." Then what is the remedy? Now, hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta (SB 7.5.5): "He should give up this material encagement, material home and material thing. He should approach the Supreme Personality of Godhead in Vṛndāvana or forest and surrender unto Him." That is the only way.

So if you want to be free of anxieties . . . nobody can say that, "I am already free of anxiety" unless he is a madman. A madman will say: "I have no anxiety." But no sane man will say that, "I am free of anxiety." This is material life. So if you want to become free of anxieties, then you come to the spiritual life. That is the only remedy. Harim āśrayeta. Accept the lotus feet of God. That is the mission of God. God comes Himself. God sends His son or devotee or servant. The same thing. Then religion may be different. That is not very, I mean, important thing. Anyone who has preached . . . the religious leaders all over the world . . . take Lord Jesus Christ or Kṛṣṇa or Muhammad or Lord Buddha. Nobody has said that, "You will be happy in this material world." Nobody has said: "You continue this manufacturing of factories, and you will be happy." Has anybody said? No. "Back to home, back to Godhead. Then you will be happy." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, back to home, back to Godhead.

We have go speak many things. We have got books. So try to understand and prepare yourself next life to go back to home, back to Godhead. This is the business of human life. All other business are simply useless waste of time.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya. All glories to Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . but the spirit is there. Just like if anyone, relative dies, father dies—take for instance—he is crying, "My father is gone. My father is gone." "But where your father has gone? Your father is here, sleeping." "No, no, he is gone." "But did you see how he has gone? Have you got the eyes, how he has gone? But you don't see. You always saw this material body, flesh." So as the spirit soul is not flesh, but you can understand that spirit soul has gone.

So in our present experience we see this flesh, or mental concoction. But spiritual understanding is different. That you have to do when you are spiritualized. Therefore it is said, ataḥ śri-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ (CC Madhya 17.136). Indriya means senses. You cannot understand God by your present senses, or godly . . . kingdom of God. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ: "But if you engage your service, beginning with the tongue, then God reveals." "God reveals" means He reveals His kingdom, He Himself. That . . .

These boys are after God. It is not that I have shown him God, but they are realizing, understanding. Otherwise they are not so fool they'll waste time. They are understanding. But it is not a subject matter to be seen like this. Neither you have got the eyes to see, neither God or His kingdom is visible in that way. It is to be realized. Revelation. That is called revelation. But if you engage yourself in the service of the Lord, everything will be revealed to you. This is the process.

Guest (1): In Kṛṣṇa consciousness, what are your thoughts of the past or the future?

Devotee: (explaining) In Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is there any thought of the past or the future?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee: (to guest) Would you like to be more specific about that question?

Guest (1): Is there any thought about the past or the future?

Madhudviṣa: The question is, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, can you remember your past or see into the future?

Prabhupāda: No, we understand past, future, everything, present. That is spiritual consciousness. Yes. Just like Kṛṣṇa says: "I know past, present and future," similarly, when you also become pure, purified in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you'll also know past, present and future.

Guest (2): . . . (indistinct)

Madhudviṣa: The gentleman is asking about the authenticity of Moses.

Prabhupāda: Moses.

Madhudviṣa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: They are representative of God. That's nice.

Madhudviṣa: Any other question?

Guest (3): How strong is the power of Kṛṣṇa?

Madhudviṣa: How strong is the power of Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: (laughter) No, that can be explained. Just like there is Atlantic Ocean and Pacific Ocean, and you are a drop of it, that's all. The quality is the same, a drop of Atlantic or Pacific Ocean and the ocean. If you taste the drop, a small drop, it is salty, you can understand that the ocean is also salty. But the containing . . . the contents of salt, that is very small, and the contents of salt in the ocean, that is very big. That you cannot imagine. It is like that. God is like you and me, a person. But He is Pacific Ocean; we are drop. That's all. Yes? What is your question? This gentleman, here.

Guest (4): What's your doctrine? What's your doctrine of this . . .

Prabhupāda: Doctrine?

Madhudviṣa: He wants to know what the doctrine of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness means that you are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, or God. You being separated, I have already explained, you are suffering in this material world. So you back to your father, go back to your father and be happy. That's all.

Guest (4): . . . (indistinct)

Devotee: (to guest) You're saying that God is spirit, we are spirit, and . . . what follows from that?

Guest (4): (indistinct) . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . if you love God. And because we are missing God, we are loving this thing, that thing, that thing, that thing, that thing, and frustration. That very love which is reserved for God, we are applying it in this material world, "I love my country. I love my society. I love my family. I love my dog. I love my . . . I love." But I am missing whom to love. That is the point. I am placing my love in so many things, and I am becoming frustrated. So when we understand the love is meant for God, that is our perfection of life. And if you love God, then you love everything. That is perfect love. Without loving God . . .

Just like you are the son of your father. So when you love your father, naturally you love your brothers also, because you know, "My father will be pleased." So this is love. That universal love can be possible when you actually love God. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. In material platform that is not possible. But a devotee, a pure lover of God, he loves everyone. Just like we are. Because we have tried to love God, therefore we are wandering, touring all over the world, and the same message, "Please try to love God." We have no other message, because we have understood to some extent that without love of God, they are suffering. So they will be happy when they begins to love God. This is our mission.

Devotee (1): In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, it says that Kṛṣṇa does not want us to come to this world, become under the external energy. So why are we here?

Madhudviṣa: (explaining) The question was that in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, which is a scripture that we study, it says that Kṛṣṇa did not want us to come to this world. The question is, if Kṛṣṇa did not want, why are we here?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You forced Kṛṣṇa to allow you to come. Just like sometimes a child forces the father. Father says: "My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there." But he insists, "Father, I must go. I must go." "All right, you go at your risk." That's all. And you suffer. What can be done? Because you are son of God—God has got independence, full independence, almighty—therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little independence. If you persist that, "I must go and enjoy independently," so God says: "All right, you can go." This is the position. You have to take sanction. That is a fact. But when you persist, God sanctions. And you come and enjoy. Beginning from Lord Brahmā down to the worms in the stool, gradually, according to your work, according to your desire, you manufacture your different types of body and enjoy and suffer. That's all. That is explained. Prakṛti-stho hi bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān. And as soon as you . . . entangled in different types of punishment, not enjoyment but punishment.

So in this way, being punished in different types of life, when we come to the sense . . . that sense can come in human form of life. When we understand that "I have traveled through . . . in . . . transmigrated from many species of life, but every life I can see, not that I have forgotten." Even if I have forgotten, I can see the suffering of the cats, dogs, tiger, man . . . (indistinct) . . . and everyone. So I had all these lives in the past. Evolutionary process, I have come to this human. So I suffered all these things. So when the question comes, "Why shall I suffer?" then the inquiry—this is called, Vedānta-sūtra, athāto brahma jijñāsā—the inquiry of God begins. That is human life. Yes.

Guest (5): Prabhupāda, Lord Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that when there is decline of true religion . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (5): . . . and when evil increases in the world, that He manifests Himself in a body, a human body, and comes to earth to rescue the human beings from their illusion.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (5): Now, these conditions exist today. Is He here in the human form, or is He still to come?

Prabhupāda: Yes, God has already come.

Guest (5): In what form?

Prabhupāda: In the form of name, Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Guest (5): No, He said He manifests in a human form.

Prabhupāda: God has human form, and God is everything. So if He comes in the form of sound, where is your objection? But God is everything. He can come as a human being or He can come in the form of sound also. Because what is this human being? You are seeing a human being, this flesh. That is combination of matter, combination of matter—earth, water, fire, air, ether. This is combination. What you are seeing? Your eyes are also the combination. But the sound is ether. So if you accept earth as the form, where is your objection to accept ether? Because they are all material.

Guest (5): There are two objections. One is that He says: "I manifest in a human body," in a human body, such as we have here, and also . . .

Prabhupāda: So that requires little intelligence, that anyone who is preaching the holy name of God, he is also God. Anyone who preaches the glories of God, he is also God.

Guest (5): Are you God?

Prabhupāda: I am servant of God.

Guest (5): But you're preaching the holy name of God?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is my business.

Guest (5): But then, by your own words, you are God.

Prabhupāda: But that does not mean I am God, but I am equal to God. Or at least, you should see like that. That is explained. A guru . . . that is explained,

sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair

uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ

kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya

vande guroḥ śrī-caraṇāravindam

Guru's position is like this. What is that? Sākṣād-dhari. He is God. Sākṣād-dhari. How he is Hari, God? No, samasta-śāstraiḥ: "In all revealed scriptures it is explained that Guru, the servant of God, the son of God, the preacher, he is God.' " Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktaḥ: "It is said." Tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ: "Those who are intelligent, they accept like that." Then next line says kintu. Why he is God? Kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya: "He is God because He is very, very dear to God." So as I said, in the absolute word, God and a person very dear to God, he is also God. But he does not think that he is God. He knows that he is servant of God. It requires little intelligence, spiritual intelligence, the Absolute, how the servant of God and God is the same. (break) Yes.

Devotee: The lady has a question. This lady here?

Lady guest (6): Do you believe in the Holy Bible?

Madhudviṣa: She wants to know if we believe in the Holy Bible.

Prabhupāda: Why not? (laughter) It is holy, God's message. Why shall I not believe?

Madhudviṣa: Yes?

Devotee (2): How can we develop enthusiasm for Kṛṣṇa's service in Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Obviously in the beginning we are not very enthusiastic for . . . what is the condition for such individual?

Madhudviṣa: He wants to know how in the beginning, when we are starting to engage in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or devotional service to God, can you develop enthusiasm and sincerity.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The thing is that if you want to become a drunkard, you mix with the people who drinks. Then you drink little, little, little. Then you become a big drunkard. Similarly, if you have got little sense that, "I shall understand what is God," this very much qualification, if anyone only wants sincerely that, "I will understand what is God," then your drinking business begins immediately. (break)

Then if you continue, then as the drunkard becomes big drunkard, you become a big devotee. The beginning is that you must be little anxious that, "How I can understand God?" This is the qualification. That's all. And if you are serious, then God is within you, He will give you intelligence. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakaṁ buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam (BG 10.10). When God sees that you are sincere, He is within you, He will dictate, "You do like this, you do like this," and you will make advance.

Guest (7): There's an article in the paper that you say the next life we can be an animal. How can I . . . (indistinct) . . .? How come?

Madhudviṣa: He is commenting about the newspaper article. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: The animal did not understand anything. (laughter and applause) Because he is animal, he is thinking like that. Everyone thinks others like him. That is the nature. Ātmavat manyate jagat.

He . . . there is a story, you will hear it, that one gentleman, he was hard of hearing, hard of hearing. So he is calling his wife, "Mrs. Such-and-such, Mrs. Such . . ." She is replying, "Yes, I am coming." But he is hard of hearing. He is thinking that "My wife is hard of hearing." She is replying, "Yes, I am coming," but this rascal is hard of hearing, so he is thinking, "My wife . . . that is my wife's fault. She is hard of hearing." He cannot hear, and he is thinking that "My wife is hard of hearing." This is the example. A man thinks others like himself.

Guest (8): Is Kṛṣṇa a personal God?

Prabhupāda: Yes, God is person, like you and me. You can go and talk with Him, be qualified for that pur . . . nitya nitya . . . this is Vedic injunction. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). God is eternal among all other eternals. We are all eternal, and God is the chief eternal. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām. We are also cognizant, and God is also cognizant. The difference is that I am cognizant with a limited space, and God is cognizant throughout the whole universe. But He is also cognizant. He is also person. I am also person. What is the difference? Eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. That one maintains all these innumerable living entities. Therefore in the Bible you go and ask God, "Give us our daily bread." He is maintaining. That is the difference between God and ourself. We are maintained and God is the maintainer. We are predominated and God is the predominator. That is the difference. Otherwise He is a person, we are also persons. He is eternal, we are eternal. He is cognizant, we are cognizant.

And the all the desires and propensities what God has got, we have also got. God has got this propensity to love Rādhārāṇī. We have got also the same propensity to love another young girl or young boy. So originally it is there. Therefore in the Vedānta-sūtra it is said, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). God means from whom everything has come. So if there is a question of love, the propensity, a man loving a woman and woman loving a man, that is in God. It must be there. Otherwise wherefrom it has come?

But that is pure, and here it is impure on account of this material contamination. The thing is there, but it is contaminated. Therefore you feel frustration. So intelligence is the "Why shall I remain in this contaminated position? I shall go to the pure platform." That is God consciousness.

Guest (9): I have a question. Why hasn't anybody seen Kṛṣṇa's universal form before He showed it to Arjuna?

Devotee: (explaining) Why hasn't anyone seen Kṛṣṇa's universal form before He showed it to Arjuna?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee: Why has no one seen . . . in Bhagavad-gītā it says that no one had seen . . . Kṛṣṇa says that, "No one before you have seen My universal form." Why is that, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: You become like Arjuna, you will see. First of all you become like Arjuna, friend of Kṛṣṇa. Then you will see. Do you think you are as good as Arjuna? Kṛṣṇa says Arjuna, addressing, that "I am instructing to you, My dear Arjuna, because you are My dear friend. And you are very great devotee." Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me rahasyam etad uttamam (BG 4.3). "I am speaking to you this Bhagavad-gītā because you are qualified." What is that qualification? "Because you are My devotee and very intimate friend" So you become also intimate friend and devotee, you will understand everything. That is our request. If Arjuna could become a friend and devotee, you can also become. Why you are losing this opportunity? That is our propaganda. You also become a friend, a devotee, and be happy and see Kṛṣṇa as He is. That is our program. It is not limited to Arjuna. It is meant for everyone. When Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), He does not say only to Arjuna; he is simply symbolic representation. He says everyone. So let us take this opportunity and become like Arjuna. That is perfection of life.

I think now we should chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Please join. (end)