760515 - Conversation - Honolulu

Conversations by Date, 1976

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

760515R1-HONOLULU - May 15, 1976 - 62:38 Minutes

Prabhupāda: . . . she still upstairs?

Rādhā-vallabha: No, Prabhupāda. Pālikā is up there now learning how to cook from her.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Rādhā-vallabha: Pālikā has gone up there to learn cooking from her, and then she will come back and instruct the cooks in L.A.

Devotee (2): She wrote . . . Pālikā wrote one letter saying that she wanted . . . her husband took sannyāsa, isn't it?

Rādhā-vallabha: Yes. Bhavānanda.

Devotee (2): She wanted to stay at that farm. She knew it a long time ago.

Rādhā-vallabha: She is staying at the Press now.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Rādhā-vallabha: She works at the Press, Pālikā.

Prabhupāda: Pālikā.

Rādhā-vallabha: Yes. She is transcribing all of the tapes of you lecturing back from 1966, all the way to the present. We are going to have an archive. We want to get every word that you say while you are here.

Prabhupāda: So Yamunā's āśrama, how far?

Rādhā-vallabha: Āśrama?

Devotee (3): From Los Angeles?

Rādhā-vallabha: A thousand miles maybe.

Devotee (3): It's closer to San Francisco—very far.

Devotee (2): Perhaps a thousand miles, because Los Angeles is on the southern portion of California, the southern half, and Oregon is . . . remember we went to Portland?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Devotee (2): It's Portland, and then we went to . . . we drove across to Eugene that one day, you did a program there. Śyāmasundara was driving very fast.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Devotee (2): I was in the car that day, and it's more or less in that area of Eugene, I believe. So it is somewhere in between, around there, that area, Portland.

Prabhupāda: Near Portland?

Devotee (2): Yes. It's Oregon. Portland is . . . it is a horizontal state.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Oregon I remember. So . . .

Devotee (2): She mentioned that she would like to come, but because there is only two of them there, and they are taking care of the Deities and they don't have much money, they may not be able to. She would like to come and see you.

Prabhupāda: Money—we can send some money.

Devotee (2): Hm. But then she was wondering who would take care of the Deities.

Prabhupāda: No, we can go there.

Devotee (2): (laughs)

Prabhupāda: See how they are doing.

Devotee (2): (laughing) I don't know if they're . . . I don't know what kind of facilities they will have there, though, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: No facilities. (devotees laugh) Just what facility? We are not for facility, we are for service.

Devotee (2): I know that.

Hari Śauri: At least you'll get some good cooking.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hari Śauri: At least you'll get some good cooking.

Prabhupāda: Not necessary.

Devotee (2): We don't know if there is a road up to the house or anything, really.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee (2): Some farms, you know, they don't have roads up to the houses. We just don't know what the situation is. We have to make some inquiry first. (to devotees) Do you know anything about it? I don't know.

Rādhā-vallabha: Jayatīrtha was there, I think. Now he is in England.

Devotee (2): We can perhaps find out in Los Angeles a little bit more. I can write one letter to Yamunā.

Rādhā-vallabha: Pālikā will be back. We can find . . .

Devotee (2): So I will write and ask them what the situation of their farm is.

Hari Śauri: Revatīnandana has been there.

Prabhupāda: No man is allowed there, right?

Devotee (2): So far I know. They are trying to remain completely free from any men whatsoever.

Prabhupāda: That's good.

Rādhā-vallabha: You know, in Los Angeles, Pālikā and Jadurāṇī have both cut all their hair.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Rādhā-vallabha: Pālikā and Jadurāṇī have both cut all their hair off. (break)

Prabhupāda: That's good.

Rādhā-vallabha: Ha. Jaya.

Prabhupāda: That is the Vedic system. Those who are husbandless, they should not dress attractively to attract the attention of another man. It is very difficult civilization for the Westerner.

Rādhā-vallabha: Viśākā will be coming here to . . . for photography for BTG. She will be here soon.

Devotee (2): It appears, though, that her farm is not growing very much.

Prabhupāda: There is no need of growing.

Devotee (2): Because there was two of them before, and still two. They are not expanding at all.

Hari Śauri: Prabhupāda wrote to them not to expand.

Devotee (2): But they haven't expanded at all.

Prabhupāda: What is the use of expanding?

Devotee (2): No women perhaps want to stay there? I don't know.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is tapasya, austerity. But she is maintaining?

Devotee (2): Apparently.

Prabhupāda: Deity picture is nice.

Devotee (2): Yes. Flowers, everything.

Prabhupāda: Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa. This is the beginning of spiritual life. Yesterday I have explained one verse, how Lord Rāmacandra comes . . . you have transcribed?

Devotee (2): On the tape? I am not quite there yet. I have only done about a third of it so far. I am on that verse where Kṛṣṇa's, His body is described, I think it's the twelfth or thirteenth verse. Kṛṣṇa's body is described as the universe. He is the oldest, and . . . there was one word, dāt-te.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Datte, datte.

Devotee (2): What is that? Because I couldn't pick it up on the tape.

Prabhupāda: Datte means "maintaining."

Devotee (2): Datte asya?

Prabhupāda: Hm. I am describing . . . there is one verse how the Supreme Personality of Godhead comes to teach the human society as Lord Rāmacandra, as Kṛṣṇa, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu. You have come to that?

Devotee (2): Not yet. I'll be doing that today, finishing.

Prabhupāda: I think one copy of that explanation may be given with the letter of Bajaj.

Devotee (2): OK.

Prabhupāda: These rascals are manufacturing. Now they are holding this conference on account of me. Because there are so many rascals, they have interpreted Bhagavad-gītā in so many ways, but they could not do anything, and here our propaganda is going on all over the world.

Devotee (2): Yes.

Prabhupāda: So they are a little ashamed. (devotees laugh)

Devotee (2): Are they genuinely ashamed, or are they . . .

Prabhupāda: Genuinely. Because they see, "Who cares for us?"

Devotee: Who is this?

Devotee (2): There are some men in Bombay, they have a conference, Gītā pracar conference.

Prabhupāda: That Bajaj is a very rich man, and the son of very important man of Gandhi's contemporary, Vinoba Bhave, and his father, Gandhi, they were working together. His father's name was Jamnalal Bajaj. A very rich man, he joined Gandhi's movement and was financing the movement. So this man is also very big, rich man in Bombay. Very big factory of electrical . . . what is called?

Devotee (2): Light bulbs?

Prabhupāda: Ha?

Devotee (2): Light bulbs?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Electrical, this fan, plug . . .

Devotee (2): Appliances.

Prabhupāda: Appliances, yes. Very big factory in India. Table fan, ceiling fan, all kinds of appliances. Stove. They have got very big factory, and he is the proprietor. He is our life member. He came to see me: "Is it not possible to call that? I am ready." The same thing, "I am ready."

Devotee (2): Your Divine Grace is already doing . . . why don't they just join our society?

Prabhupāda: And they have got this rascal interpretation. Even Gandhi did. That is individuality.

Devotee (2): Why do they want to develop a separate society, Gītā pracar conference, or their separate work, when they can simply support our work, which is doing it already?

Prabhupāda: He is organizing. He is trying to organize. But why not combine? Any moment it can be done, but this rascal will not agree. They stick their own foolishness. It will never be successful. Misinterpreting on the words of Kṛṣṇa, how much offensive it is they do not know it, and they want success. They do not take seriously that it is Kṛṣṇa's instruction. They think that somebody has written a, what is called, allegory.

Devotee (2): Mythology?

Prabhupāda: Mythology, yes. They do not believe there was battle of Kurukṣetra and Kṛṣṇa instructed . . . Kṛṣṇa is God and . . . they all these things . . .

Rādhā-vallabha: At the most they will admit that Kṛṣṇa was a great personality.

Prabhupāda: That's all. All this Cinmayananda and this Vinoba Bhave and Gandhi and Dr. Radhakrishnan, and all rascals, Aurabindo . . . they have taken it.

Devotee (2): The evidence is there in the Vedic scriptures.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee (2): The evidence is there in the Vedic scriptures, but it seems that they have developed this Māyāvādī philosophy, to "the within of Kṛṣṇa," that Radhakrishnan's philosophy. People have come to accept that.

Prabhupāda: Radhakrishnan has accepted, "That is very difficult, to deny Personality of God by reading Bhagavad-gītā."

Devotee: He wrote that? (laughter)

Rādhā-vallabha: He tried.

Prabhupāda: He tried his best, but it is hardly . . . (indistinct)

Devotee (2): Rascals.

Prabhupāda: One after another.

Devotee (2): They didn't at all want to serve the purpose of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Impersonalists. "How God can be person?" They compare with themselves: "But I am a person, what can I do? How can I experience the sky?" They are in perplexity.

Devotee (2): So why do they touch Bhagavad-gītā then?

Prabhupāda: Because it is so authorized and popular. They take the advantage, proving their foolish rascal idea.

Rādhā-vallabha: Maharishi also did one translation . . .

Devotee (2): The first six chapters.

Rādhā-vallabha: . . . very nonsense. He talks about Bhagavad-gītā as if it were some sort of high school physics course.

Prabhupāda: What?

Rādhā-vallabha: He speaks of Bhagavad-gītā in the terms of physics, energy, so much nonsense. It's impossible to understand it.

Prabhupāda: Now they are becoming entrapped. "As It Is."

Rādhā-vallabha: By Your Divine Grace.

Prabhupāda: And they accept it. (laughter) And this is becoming very popular; therefore they are perplexed.

Rādhā-vallabha: Bahulāśva Prabhu goes to the colleges . . .

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Rādhā-vallabha: Bahulāśva gives lectures in the colleges, and he hands out Gītās to all the students, and during the lecture he says: "So turn to page such-and-such and you will see where it talks about karma," and then, "Turn to this page . . ." And they are all going through the book, going through the book, and after the class he usually sells about five books, because they are so impressed that someone is so well versed in the Gītā and can explain it so nicely, and they take the book because they have never seen this before.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is . . .

(pause and sipping noise, Prabhupāda puts cup down on table)

Prabhupāda: Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam (BG 7.25).

Rādhā-vallabha: Sometimes the scholar accused that your translation has a Vaiṣṇava slant. (laughter) They say that although the translations are slanted towards the devotional side, still it is a very nice book.

Devotee (2): That means they have some preconception already, of . . .

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee (2): That means they have some preconception already, what to expect from Bhagavad-gītā. They have been contaminated.

Hari Śauri: The library party was saying that . . .

Prabhupāda: Who?

Hari Śauri: The library party, one of them was telling me that when they present . . . the scholars, they get the books, and they like the layout and the Sanskrit and everything like that, but they are not so keen on the purports because they can't speculate on anything. It's so clear and direct they've got nothing left to say themselves. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: So we cannot allow any speculation. (laughter) Just see the audacity—they are speculating on the words of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Such rascals, and we have to accept them as authority. In Bengal it is called jakamor Jakam. Just like if a small boy speaks authoritatively before his father, superior, it is called jakam. What do you call it in English?

Rādhā-vallabha: Upstart.

Prabhupāda: Upstart, impudent. So all these rascals are jakam.

Rādhā-vallabha: You describe that in the Third Canto, where Vidura was referred to Maitreya by Uddhava, because Uddhava was afraid to speak; although he was qualified, he didn't want to speak while Maitreya was still present, because Maitreya was older.

Devotee (2): It is an offense: moya davyati krama. Moya davyati krama Is that it?

Hari Śauri: You say in the purport that you mention that if . . . for one to speak in the presence of a superior, then that's an offense.

(child crying)

Prabhupāda: Who is this particular child, always crying?

Hari Śauri: These children, it's the children from the karmī side that make all the noise. Most of our children are all pretty quiet.

Prabhupāda: No, he is . . .

Devotee (2): This is a devotee.

Hari Śauri: This is one of the devotees, but . . .

Prabhupāda: . . . I am speaking of. He is always crying.

Devotee (2): They could use a gurukula here, I think.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee (2): They could use a gurukula on this island.

Hari Śauri: I think all of those children in the morning, though, they are from the other island.

Rādhā-vallabha: There are many devotees on the island of Maui.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Rādhā-vallabha: There are many devotees on the island of Maui, the next island. They don't live in the temple. They also have many children.

(child is still crying)

Devotee (2): Rāmeśvara said that Jagadīśa is taking very seriously to expand the gurukula program.

Rādhā-vallabha: In Los Angeles one of the neighboring ladies, a karmī lady, she was passing by, and all the gurukula children were running around outside, and she said: "Oh, these are the nicest children I have ever seen."

(child is still crying)

Prabhupāda: This child is a little disturbing.

Devotee (2): Yeah, suffering.

Prabhupāda: In the temple, no gṛhasthas allowed. (laughter)

Devotee (2): Jaya.

Prabhupāda: Temple is meant for brahmacārīs, sannyāsīs. Gṛhasthas may be engaged in worshiping, taking care, managing, but families should remain outside.

Devotee (2): The problem is most of these women with children, they don't have any husbands—unmarried.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (2): One woman, she came the other day, she has one child, no husband. She was living here, and she was asked to leave because there was no space. Now she is living in the back of a car with her baby.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee (2): She is living in the back of a car with her baby. She has no blanket even to take care of the child. No husband, just a baby living in the back of a car.

Prabhupāda: Here?

Devotee (2): Nearby. She's coming each morning to your lectures. Many of these women are unmarried with babies.

Prabhupāda: This is the social problem: women without husband. And how scientific it was that the girl, as soon as she is above ten years, the father's responsibility, how to get her married. All my sisters were married from nine to twelve years. And the twelve years old, my second sister, she was belated . . .

Devotee (2): Belated?

Prabhupāda: It was lately.

Rādhā-vallabha: She was old.

Prabhupāda: Twelve years. So my mother said to my father that, "This girl is not being married, I shall commit suicide." (devotees laugh) This is, I have seen. She was elder than me by three years, my second sister. So then hastily, somehow or other, she was married to my brother-in-law as second wife. Second wife . . . the first wife died. Formerly the boys and girls were married earlier. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He was married at the seventeen years old. He married for the second time at the age of twenty years. First wife death. So formerly this was the practice. Girl utmost ten to twelve years, and boy sixteen to seventeen or utmost thirty.

Devotee (2): As soon as your sisters were married, did they remain in the same house, or did they live with the other family's house?

Prabhupāda: Then, because she was twelve years old, so after one year, because generally in Bengal twelve to thirteen years is the age of puberty. My wife gave birth to first child when she was fourteen years. (devotees exclaim) She was married at eleven years old. So anyway, the idea is that it is the father's duty to get the daughter married somehow or other within thirteen years.

Devotee (2): Before they reach puberty?

Prabhupāda: This is Vedic system.

Devotee (2): Very good system.

Prabhupāda: Not necessarily the boy should be all well equipped. Simply to see that he is good health and he can work hard. That was all. No education, no money—nothing. Then depends on the fate. "I have given to you a boy who is healthy and he can work hard." Then they are fortunate. This was the system.

Rādhā-vallabha: They also used astrology, didn't they?

Prabhupāda: Hm? Yes. My mother's grandfather was very, very rich man, and his daughter was given to a boy whose family was rich, but they became poor, bankrupt. Practically poverty-stricken. Ah, that boy. So my mother's grandmother preferred that, "This boy is hard-working and coming from a respectable family; now they have become poor." So he gave her daughter to him, and later on my mother's grandmother gave him five hundred rupees to start some business. So that is at least 150 years ago, my mother's grandmother. So with that five hundred rupees he started a business, and he flourished in such a way that in Calcutta there is a place, it is called Kshetra. Kshetra, that Kshetra, he purchased the whole Kshetra. Now there are two big roads. One road is Govinda Chandra Auddy Road, that is the husband of my mother's aunt, and another road, Rakhal Chandra Auddy, that is my maternal uncle. So with that five hundred rupees he made a great fortune. And he had no money. It was given secretly by the mother-in-law, that "You do something with that."

Devotee (2): What kind of business did he . . .?

Prabhupāda: His . . . later on he did a, started business, some lace, lace-making. Not very lucrative, but still. So Indians still believe that that is the . . . (indistinct) . . . the verdict of all Vedic literature, tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukhaṁ (SB 1.5.18). You cannot create your fortune unless God gives you; but you can make honest effort, then depend on God. Karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana (BG 2.47). That is Indian philosophy. Therefore they did not make too much endeavor—easy-going—but do something; don't be idle. That is the philosophy. So still there is no problem. The boy is married, and he works honestly, and the wife also works honestly as householder. They live peacefully. Not that "I must have this comfort, that comfort." Just like our, that rascal . . . (break) No. All this Western wife means, they call it "White elephant." In India they call it.

Devotee (2): You . . .? White women?

Prabhupāda: White elephant, to maintain. Because formerly people were . . . boys were coming in the Western countries, sometimes they married European wife, and later on, after going back, they found it is a white elephant. (devotees laugh)

Devotee (2): That's great.

Prabhupāda: White elephant, I mean, if you cannot maintain properly, then there was divorce.

Devotee (2): These women are never satisfied.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they found it "White elephant," to maintain an elephant, white in color. (devotees laugh)

Hari Śauri: A white elephant is particularly useless?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hari Śauri: A white elephant is more useless than another elephant?

Prabhupāda: No, elephant nobody can maintain. It is very difficult to maintain, and he has to be given forty kilograms food daily, and kilo, what is called, forty kilos?

Devotee (2): Hundred pounds.

Hari Śauri: I was just wondering why white . . .

Prabhupāda: You have seen elephant?

Devotee (2): Yes, in India.

Prabhupāda: Ha. For them such big capātīs are made. (devotee laughs) A whole family's wheat flour will be given, and that is also not sufficient. So many capātīs should be given. Only the kings. Now the princely order is finished, now there is no transaction for elephant, horse. No customers. Formerly there was a market yearly held: horse, elephant, all animals, cows, they were being sold, near Patna. Big. Now since last twenty years it is stopped. Nobody is going to purchase horse and . . .

Hari Śauri: That, er, so . . . (break) . . . diminishing, they can't afford to keep them.

Prabhupāda: Twenty is maintaining in this age; that is also to his credit, and dowry.

Devotee (2): They want to do away with that also.

Prabhupāda: And just see, when Kṛṣṇa's mother was married to Vasudeva, dowry: so many hundreds of chariots, so many horses, so many elephants, so many maidservants. Who will be able to keep them? Apart from ornament, jewelry, sārī to the girl, these things were also given, royal, royal family. Then if he can't maintain, then he'll not . . . otherwise what is the glory there, if he maintains only tin car? This is a tin car, canister. As soon as he is stuck up: brr, brr, brr. He has got experience, tin car. Where is elephant?

Rādhā-vallabha: If the president just takes a little bit of money, they kick him out.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Rādhā-vallabha: If the president just takes a little bit of money, they kick him out immediately.

Prabhupāda: President?

Rādhā-vallabha: If the president of the United States . . .

Prabhupāda: Ha. Ha.

Rādhā-vallabha: . . . if he tries to use his position for a little bit of, ah, like a kingly enjoyment, then they just kick him out, because he's not a king.

Prabhupāda: All of them are doing that. They are taking so many women. At least that Kennedy was, before.

Devotee (2): Yes, that's been exposed.

Prabhupāda: And this Nixon was also doing that. They take advantage.

Devotee (2): There seems to be no solution, though, because in the Western society there is no protection offered by parents, so these people are coming to become devotees. So what do we do? How can we arrange our society? This is always point of discussion.

Prabhupāda: We have to maintain them. They have come to Kṛṣṇa. How can we refuse them? Some arrangement may be made. The government must help. Approach government, that these unprotected girls . . . but they are . . . ha?

Devotee (2): That's a very good idea. I don't know if they'll do . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, welfare society, they must pay. How we can maintain? But we cannot refuse them. Are they not getting welfare, money?

Rādhā-vallabha: Some of them. With children they usually get welfare.

Prabhupāda: So that money, they are giving to the society?

Rādhā-vallabha: Usually they keep it for their apartment and food. It is not so much money; it is just enough for them to maintain.

Prabhupāda: So they do not take prasādam in the temple?

Rādhā-vallabha: Depends on where it is.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Rādhā-vallabha: Depends on the location. In Los Angeles the householders get food stamps from the government, and they purchase their food like that, and they . . .

Devotee (2): They . . . they are not really trained up, though. Pradyumna, he's a little bit sick, so some of the girls, they were wanting to help him, like Kuśa. So they had some food stamps, so they went out and bought the most nonsensical medicines.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee (2): They went out and bought the most nonsensical modern medicines. Clorofil and so many things like this, and the price was $22. They bought with food stamps. Rather they could have bought so many things for offering to the Deities. Even the food stamps can be used, but no management.

Prabhupāda: So this is a problem, to maintain these husbandless women.

Devotee (2): Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: And also gṛhasthas.

Devotee (2): Many of the gṛhasthas at least are doing saṅkīrtana.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee (2): Many of the gṛhasthas are doing saṅkīrtana, going out and distributing books, preaching.

Prabhupāda: They are giving some service.

Devotee (2): Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is wanted, gṛhastha. Just see the foolish law, that there is no sufficient boys to keep wife at least, and they have made laws, one wife. Why one wife?

Devotee (2): In this philosophy of democracy there is not supposed to be any discrimination. They would say that this is discrimination against women, because in the Western countries actually the women have this concept that they are just as good as men. They are thinking like that, and the men are thinking also the women are probably just as good. They don't . . .

Prabhupāda: Then why are they in difficulty, without husband?

Devotee (2): The women argue that the men are also in difficulty.

Prabhupāda: But they like that? This neglected position, lying down at the back of the car without any husband, without any provisions, they like it?

Devotee (2): These white elephants are very crazy.

Prabhupāda: If they like it, then let them be like that.

Devotee (2): Western women are . . . they have no training at all.

Rādhā-vallabha: They say that because they have been trained in the past that they are less intelligent and that they are weaker, therefore it has ruined them in their older age. They have to defeat all this.

Devotee (2): They have to prove their independence by living without man's protection.

Prabhupāda: They cannot appreciate that?

Devotee (2): Man's protection? Not so much any more. There is a whole current of thought with this women's liberation.

Rādhā-vallabha: There's no protection anyway.

Devotee (2): Yes. The men run off anyway.

Rādhā-vallabha: They are, in one sense, they are right, because the men do not protect them; they exploit them for sex life. So that is one reason why they are becoming successful in this philosophy.

Prabhupāda: There is reason, but the man does not marry because there are so many implications.

Devotee (2): But by nature's way women like to be protected.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore called svāmī, svāmī. Husband is called svāmī, means protector. (dogs barking) Where are these dogs?

Devotee (2): That's outside, next door.

Rādhā-vallabha: We find that in our society practically none of the brahmacārīs want to get married because they see that the women are not so chaste.

Prabhupāda: That is the psychology. That is the psychology. They know that, "The girl whom I am going to marry, she will never be faithful." That is the impression. "So why shall I marry and take charge?" This is the psychology.

I know in beginning, 1965, one carpenter boy he was coming to me; he gave me some benches, secondhand. So I asked him, "Why don't you get yourself married?" because I did not know. So he replied, "Swamījī, I know that I'll not get a faithful, chaste wife," he said. Then I could understand the psychology why the boys do not get married. No husband wants an unchaste, unfaithful wife. That is a shock to him. And here you have to allow the wife to go out with her friend. You cannot object.

Devotee (2): Wife to go with?

Prabhupāda: With her friend.

Rādhā-vallabha: To go out with her friends; just do whatever she likes.

Devotee (2): Oh, in the Western countries.

Prabhupāda: I saw that John Lennon. He was maintaining her former husband or friend, the wife's . . .

Devotee (2): In the same house.

Rādhā-vallabha: Yoko Ono.

Prabhupāda: She already had a friend, and John Lennon wanted her.

Devotee (2): So he took him also?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter) And he was working as his garden manager. Now that boy has kidnapped the girl. Not the . . . the daughter, and he has went away, and now John has gone after him.

Hari Śauri: They've split now, anyway.

Prabhupāda: Ha?

Hari Śauri: They've split up now, anyway.

Devotee (2): He wrote one song, that John Lennon, it was very blasphemous.

Prabhupāda: Ha?

Devotee (2): He wrote one song on a record album. It was called "God is a Symbol," and he mentioned George. He said: "I don't believe in this, I don't believe in that, I don't believe in Gītā. What has Kṛṣṇa got on you, George?" Like this. And he went on. At the end he says: "All I believe is in Yoko and me—that's reality." (laughter)

Hari Śauri: He put all these things that he don't believe in, "I don't believe in heaven, and I don't believe in Kṛṣṇa, and I don't believe in this, and I don't believe in that. There's just Yoko and me."

Prabhupāda: Who cares for you?

Hari Śauri: That's what I thought when I read it. I thought, "Well, who cares for him anyway?" All these things are going on.

Rādhā-vallabha: Another one of them said: "Hare Kṛṣṇa doesn't have anything on me."

Prabhupāda: He said?

Rādhā-vallabha: I think it was Paul that said that. Right?

Devotee (2): No. It was John.

Rādhā-vallabha: Rascal.

Devotee (2): Actually, they are very low-class people. They came from Liverpool, low class.

Hari Śauri: Everyone is low class.

Prabhupāda: Everyone low class. What they have got? Simply they got some money and became respected. That's all. Everywhere money is everything. Only on account of, otherwise what qualifications they have got? George, suppose he has got some money, but he has got qualification, he has done something for Kṛṣṇa. He has taken. I asked him first of all $19,000 for paying the bill of Kṛṣṇa, and he paid. You know that?

Rādhā-vallabha: Oh, yes. In America for a long time when we would distribute the books we would say: "George Harrison paid for this," and immediately they would take it.

Prabhupāda: Hm. He actually did pay—$19,000.

Hari Śauri: On the strength of that foreword that he put in the inside cover, that must have sold hundreds of thousands of books, just by showing them that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I asked him to write it. And I have acknowledged his money.

Devotees: Yes.

Rādhā-vallabha: We show that to people when we distribute the book. We say: "See, here the author is thanking George Harrison for the money. He has paid for it," and they go, "Aha," and they buy the book.

Prabhupāda: He is a good boy.

Rādhā-vallabha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, when Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva appeared, did He appear in India? Or was it Indra-loka?

Prabhupāda: I told you . . . (indistinct)

Hari Śauri: It describes in the Bhāgavatam that Hiraṇyakaśipu, he was seated in the throne of Indra, in Indra's palace, so then we were wondering, well, did Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva appear on the planet earth or was it in Indra-loka?

Prabhupāda: It was not in this planet, so far I . . . but we are not concerned about the history; we are concerned about the pastime.

Rādhā-vallabha: Lord Nṛsiṁha is very popular in the West. When people hear about Him . . . because in the West everyone is brought up with so many violent stories, so when they hear the story of Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva, they become very attracted.

Devotee (2): And everyone's father is a great demon also.

Prabhupāda: So why not publish a chapter from Bhāgavatam? I think Seventh Canto is full of Prahlāda's . . .

Devotee (2): Yes.

Rādhā-vallabha: We actually did that. One time we published the Teachings of Prahlāda Mahārāja, a little pamphlet. That was very popular.

Prabhupāda: So you are not printing now?

Rādhā-vallabha: No. We have not printed it for many years. We can print it again if you like.

Devotee (2): I think the Seventh Canto will be very popular. That can be reprinted.

Hari Śauri: There are so many violent stories in the Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Ha?

Hari Śauri: There are so many descriptions of fighting in the Bhāgavatam, and they by far excel anything the mundaners can even conceive of. Like where Jarāsandha gets torn in half, or where his army was defeated and it describes how the bodies were floating like islands . . .

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is killing so many demons from Vṛndāvana.

Hari Śauri: Yes. They can't conceive of anything like that at all. It is amazing to them.

Prabhupāda: Their idea is God cannot kill anyone. No?

Hari Śauri: Hm. If He's God.

Prabhupāda: Isn't that the idea?

Hari Śauri: Yes.

Devotee (2): They have that materialistic conception of goodness.

Rādhā-vallabha: When we used to distribute the Back to Godhead magazine that had Balarāma killing Pralambāsura on the back cover, the black people would ask why the white person is killing the black one. So it was very difficult to sell that magazine to black people.

Prabhupāda: You worship black Kṛṣṇa. Why did you not say? Black is not neglected. We worship, you see our Deity, black Kṛṣṇa.

Rādhā-vallabha: You are actually the best book distributor.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Rādhā-vallabha: You are the best book distributor. You know all the good lines.

(pause)

Rādhā-vallabha: The sign on the front of the Press is ordered now.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Rādhā-vallabha: They have ordered the sign for the front of the Press with your name, and we are going to try our best to have it up by the time you get there. Generally it takes one month for them to carve the letters, but we will try to have it up when you get there. Rāmeśvara said he is very, very sorry that when you originally told him about the sign he had already purchased the other letters, and he did not want to displease you by spending more money, and he is very sorry. He has immediately ordered the letters for you.

Prabhupāda: That was two years ago he said that it should be taken.

Rādhā-vallabha: Actually, devotees at the Press, they are . . . it is wonderful how dedicated they are. Whenever a book is coming out, I give an iṣṭagoṣṭhī, and I tell them that Śrīla Prabhupāda is desiring very much to have this book out, and they will do anything. They will stay up all night . . .

Prabhupāda: One girl wrote some articles.

Hari Śauri: Hm. In the Back to Godhead . . . it was a one-page article from that girl who joined.

Prabhupāda: She is working still?

Rādhā-vallabha: Yes. She was . . . I went to Princeton University Press to study some of their methods . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. Your name is also.

Rādhā-vallabha: Yes. Unfortunately. And she was there. She was the type composer.

Prabhupāda: She is still with us?

Rādhā-vallabha: Oh, yes. Now she is transcribing Jayadvaita's and Hayagriva's tapes, the editorial tapes. She will work all day and all night also, whenever is necessary.

Prabhupāda: She is married or no?

Rādhā-vallabha: No. Very few devotees get married now. It is very, very rare.

Prabhupāda: If one is fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, this marriage problem does not disturb.

Rādhā-vallabha: We're too busy to get married. (laughs) No time.

Prabhupāda: Brahmacārī . . . man can remain without sex. It is not very difficult for him to. But women? Man can be trained up. He can remain throughout the whole life without sex. But it is a little difficult, unless they are given special protection. Special protection means strictly not to intermingle with any boy. Then they do. That is not possible in the Western . . . otherwise she can remain brahmacāriṇī under the protection of elder brother, or father and mother—not to allow—strict—mix freely to the boys.

Rādhā-vallabha: In this country if they are left under the protection of their father and mother, then their father and mother will order them to have sex life.

Prabhupāda: They make the girl prostitute to bring money. I have got experience. They do not like their young girls to marry. Better find out boys, and bring money. And once woman is trained up to prostitution, she will never become faithful wife. It is impossible. She is spoilt.

Rādhā-vallabha: In America, if the woman is not like a prostitute, then she is ridiculed. All her friends ridicule her. Most of the degradation actually occurs in schools. When you go to school, the grade school, the elementary school and the high school and then college, this is where you learn all of this sex life, all of the intoxication. This is where you learn it. You learn it from the other children. Actually, that's the source of all the degradation. The meat-eating is taught by the parents, but everything else is school . . .

Prabhupāda: Not only the parents. At the school they distribute contraceptive ingredients, tablets. In India it is also a problem.

Devotee (2): In movie screens also, cinemas.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee (2): Cinemas. They see all the things going on on the cinema screen.

Rādhā-vallabha: And the filthy literatures also.

Prabhupāda: Literature?

Rādhā-vallabha: Filthy literatures, everywhere.

Devotee (2): Magazines.

Hari Śauri: Every newsagent sells pornographic literature. Every newsagent.

Rādhā-vallabha: In a large city it is not possible to walk down a main street without seeing magazines with naked women—everywhere. That's all they have.

Hari Śauri: Even the advertisements for so-called respectable goods now, they also feature naked women and so many things. It's just not possible, in the West, to avoid it.

Prabhupāda: Not only that, on public streets they are embracing, kissing.

Rādhā-vallabha: In India you don't even see that at all. It's very nice. Even now. In fact in places like Māyāpura and Vṛndāvana, you won't even see a husband and wife walking together. That's very unusual.

Devotee (2): There's not so much emphasis on sex life there. Western society is all sex life.

Prabhupāda: Unnatural life. Western society is unnatural.

Devotee (2): They're even making surveys that they think that people would work harder if instead of having a lunch break they would have a sex break. So the husband and wife, during lunch hour, they could have sex life and go back to work again.

Prabhupāda: Acchā?

Devotee (2): This is public news. I read it in the Time magazine.

Hari Śauri: Even in the prisons, they allow the wives of the prisoners to come so that . . . and stay for the weekend at the jails. They were doing that program in England, because the men were complaining, they were becoming agitated, no sex life. They are prisoners, criminals, so they were allowing their wives to come.

Prabhupāda: What if he has no wife?

Devotee (2): They become homosex also. Prison is very bad. Big problems.

Rādhā-vallabha: One devotee went to prison, and they had to give him a special place just so he would not be attacked by other men for sex life. This was three years ago.

Prabhupāda: Homosex?

Rādhā-vallabha: Yes. He did not want it, so he did not want to be homosexual, so they had to put him in a place where there were no other men, because practically all of them were like that. They became so insane after sex life. He escaped from prison, though. He jumped over the wall, and for three days went through the mountains with no food, and he escaped, then he went to India.

Prabhupāda: He escaped, how?

Rādhā-vallabha: He jumped over the wall of the prison.

Prabhupāda: Acchā.

Rādhā-vallabha: Kṛṣṇa empowered him. I sent books to the prison chaplain, Kṛṣṇa Books, so the prison chaplain would give them to him, but they came back in the mail. It said: "Cannot deliver. The prisoner has escaped."

Prabhupāda: He did some service?

Rādhā-vallabha: The chaplain?

Prabhupāda: No. He distributed some book?

Hari Śauri: No, this boy.

Devotee: Who was he? He was a devotee?

Rādhā-vallabha: Vidura. His name was Vidura. I have not heard of him many years. Maybe he left. But he was a . . .

Prabhupāda: Vidura, I think he is in Vṛndāvana.

Devotee (2): Brahmacārī.

Rādhā-vallabha: He is thin boy, blond hair? I have not seen him in years.

Hari Śauri: He wasn't there when I was there.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hari Śauri: He wasn't there when I was there.

Prabhupāda: I heard the name. So he has gone to India?

Rādhā-vallabha: When he first escaped from prison he went to India. This was around two or three years ago.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Rādhā-vallabha: Then no one heard of him after that. He did not send any letters, to avoid being caught.

Prabhupāda: He jumped over the wall?

Rādhā-vallabha: Yes. He jumped over the wall, then he went through the mountains of Pennsylvania to escape. He had his striped prison suit on. They give 58:53 them a striped suit in the prison. And all the neighboring towns, they tell the people if they see anyone like that, then they will give a big reward. So he was very frightened. He was walking through towns with his striped suit, and people were seeing him.

Prabhupāda: Sanatāna Goswāmī did.

Hari Śauri: Yes.

Devotee (2): He also didn't want to go on the main road. He walked through the jungles.

Prabhupāda: He could not jump over. He paid for that. (laughter) What money he had, he paid. But he did all this for Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Devotees: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: In those days it was unique.

Rādhā-vallabha: Unique?

Prabhupāda: How he arranged for getting free from prison.

Hari Śauri: It wasn't a very common thing to bribe the jailer?

Prabhupāda: Heh?

Hari Śauri: It was not a very common thing to bribe the jailer?

Prabhupāda: He had money, he bribed. But who has money?

Rādhā-vallabha: It was from his brother? It was Rūpa Gosvāmī's money?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rādhā-vallabha: Rūpa Gosvāmī left one fourth for family expenditures.

Prabhupāda: Fifty percent for Kṛṣṇa, twenty-five percent for family, and twenty-five percent for personal emergency.

Hari Śauri: I remember when I joined the temple, I gave all my money to the temple, and then my parents found out, one friend told them. So they wrote a letter demanding to know why I hadn't sent them the money.

Rādhā-vallabha: The one fourth. (laughter)

Hari Śauri: No, not the one fourth. But they wanted to know why I had given all the money to the temple. They said, "You could have given it to your brother, or," he'd just got married, "or you could have given it to us, or . . ." Like this, very upset.

Prabhupāda: When was?

Hari Śauri: They are in England.

Prabhupāda: Oh. In England, you gave to our temple?

Hari Śauri: No. I joined in Sydney, so I gave to the temple in Sydney.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

(devotees offer obeisances) Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, I remember I . . . we were speaking in India . . . did you want to use the Dictaphone in the afternoon or not? I don't know. (end)