760702 - Conversation - New Vrindaban, USA

Conversations by Date, 1976

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

760702R1-NEW VRINDAVAN - July 02, 1976 - 46.42 Minutes

Prabhupāda: This is also inhabitable. Where you are going? Take it in writing.

Hari-śauri: Now they are putting out the same kind of propaganda about Mars that formerly they were putting out about the moon—that there may be life—so that they can use that as an excuse to go. I just read a little bit where they say that due to information sent back by the last spaceship that they sent to Mars, now they think that there's more water vapor in the atmosphere than they at first thought. So that means that there's a good possibility that there may be some bacterial life on Mars. So (laughs) they don't . . . and then they state that the temperature ranges from -130 to +40 degrees Fahrenheit. So that means that there could be life there in bacteria form.

Prabhupāda: And why there is no life in moon planet? Some scientists say the temperature is two hundred degrees less than the zero.

Hari-śauri: Yes, at night when they said . . . because there's no atmosphere.

Prabhupāda: But why these rascals say it is full of dust? And how from the dust so much light is coming, illuminating the whole universe? What is their logic? They have already brought the dust. That dust does not illuminate.

Hari-śauri: Well, they say just like when the sunlight hits the earth, then the earth appears very bright from outer space. It appears very illuminating.

Prabhupāda: Who says?

Hari-śauri: This is the scientists' excuse.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They showed some pictures.

Hari-śauri: They showed some pictures taken from outer space that shows the earth glowing very brightly, like the moon. So they say in the same way when the . . .

Prabhupāda: Why the glow of the surface of the globe, earth, does not illuminate? It does not come between illumination?

Hari-śauri: Just like when the sun is here, everything is bright.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, when the sun is there.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's interesting. The moon is actually illuminating.

Prabhupāda: Why it does not illuminate?

Hari-śauri: They only say it reflects the sunlight.

Prabhupāda: Kick their face with shoes. That is the only reward for them.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Imagination.

Prabhupāda: And foolish person accepting. Just like sun is illuminating. It doesn't require illumination from any other planet. Similarly, if earth is also illuminating, why does it require moonlight in darkness? This common sense does not come into the brain of these rascals who believe that?

Hari-śauri: Well, they put their scientific reasoning to explain the different things.

Prabhupāda: What is their scientific reasoning? Talking like fools and rascals? If something is illuminating, why extra illumination required to illuminate?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Their theory is that there's a dark side of the moon that we've never seen.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Their theory is that there's a dark . . . that actually the moon is reflecting the sun's light. So there's a dark side of the moon.

Prabhupāda: So far the world is, where is the dark side and the bright side? If you compare like that, then so far this globe is concerned, which one is dark side, which one is bright side?

Hari-śauri: No, they say the earth is spinning on its own axis, so all parts of the earth at one time or another receive sunlight.

Prabhupāda: The moon does not do that?

Hari-śauri: The moon does not revolve on its own axis.

Prabhupāda: Another foolishness.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Just to fit their speculation.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Simply speculation and misleading people.

Hari-śauri: There's no basis for it. There's no truth to it at all. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: And you people believed that? I'm surprised. (laughter) You are also fools and rascals.

Hari-śauri: This is what they teach in all the schools.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They have little models, Śrīla Prabhupāda, made out of plastic.

Prabhupāda: Ah, they are . . . let them; we take them as rascals, that's all. Mūḍha.

Hari-śauri: That other argument that you use about how the moon rays give life to the vegetables, so how is it that there's no life on the moon? If the rays from the moon give life, then how is it there's no life where the rays come from?

Prabhupāda: They have never gone to moon. (laughs) All bogus. And this Mars expedition will be a failure. Let them spend millions of dollars. I told about moon planet ten years ago. Simply it is childish, simply a waste of money and energy. I told this. Now it has proved.

Hari-śauri: There's no more interest in the moon at all.

Prabhupāda: No? Kīrtanānanda said, "It is inhabitable." Ten years ago I said there's no use going there. It is childish, waste of money. But who hears about us? We know moon planet is inhabited by high-class living entities. (laughs) (sarcastically) And they will allow these rascals to go by their machine.

Hari-śauri: When they originally started sending sputniks to the moon, they couldn't even land them properly. They would crash. They said that they were crash-landing spaceships into the moon's surface.

Prabhupāda: Crashed?

Hari-śauri: Crash-landing. The spaceship was supposed to just smash into the surface of the moon, like that.

Prabhupāda: They have never gone. Simply propaganda. Even they have gone, what is the result? Simply to give report that it is inhabitable? (Prabhupāda is eating ice cream) What is this fiber?

Hari-śauri: Don't know.

Prabhupāda: Finding? What are other things are there in the . . . hmm? What is this? (Hari-śauri laughs) Hmm? Do they add anything more? Something reddish there?

Hari-śauri: Sometimes there's a few bugs in it. (laughs) There's some . . . it's probably some strands from the mango, fiber from the mango.

Prabhupāda: Do they add mango?

Hari-śauri: Yes, sometimes they put different fruits in it.

Pradyumna: Little orange's in there. Little bit orange.

Hari-śauri: Strawberry and mango and this and that. They make it with some kind of an ice cream machine.

Prabhupāda: Hmm? This is not from machine?

Hari-śauri: No, this is from machine.

Pradyumna: You first made ice cream in New York, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Someone told me that in 26 Second Avenue, did you make . . . you made them ice cream when it was very hot?

Prabhupāda: Hot?

Pradyumna: It was hot . . . no, the weather was hot, so you made.

Prabhupāda: No, you can make ice cream in this, what is called, refrigerator. You can make.

Hari-śauri: Just make thick cream and put it in the fridge.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Ice" cream.

Prabhupāda: (Prabhupāda speaks some gibberish phrases) Big, big words.

Pradyumna: They put everything in language. Then everyone is fooled. No one knows . . .

Hari-śauri: Speak as many big words as possible and don't make any point at all, and then everybody will proclaim.

Prabhupāda: So gradually they'll go up to Saturn?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: If the money holds out. Actually, they've already sent some exploring rocket ships way out to Saturn years ago.

Hari-śauri: Takes several years to reach.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's such a bluff.

Hari-śauri: How long does it take them to go to Mars?

Pradyumna: Mars and Venus also, they say.

Hari-śauri: Yeah, Venus is the other one they concentrate . . . they think that Venus, there's a good chance there may be some life there.

Pradyumna: Venus is covered by clouds, so no one can see what is there. There's clouds all around the planet. Heavy, what do they call, so that no one can see. So they sent a rocket inside or something to go through the clouds to see what is there. Russians also tried. Fermament. In the Bible, they say that on earth there was also . . . above the earth there were all clouds at one time according to the Bible. There were all clouds, and then at that time men used to live very, very long, and then the clouds went away at some point. They call it a firmament. So the same thing is on Venus. No one can see what the planet is like. No one has ever known. That is also a heavenly . . . we say also . . . that is Śukrā . . . Śukrācārya's place?

Prabhupāda: Not Śukrācārya's. Just Śukra.

Pradyumna: Just Śukra.

Prabhupāda: May be Śukrācārya's place. What benefit they will have? Nothing. This is science—without any aim, without any objective.

Hari-śauri: Hmm. What they're doing is entirely pointless. It's entirely pointless. There's no proper reason for any of it, because they're not improving their actual living standards by it. They are . . . it's just like a jñāni, he thinks advancement of knowledge, just to simply acquire any amount of knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Kevala-bodha-labdhaye. They are described: Kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye. Simply works hard simply to know things. No benefit. These rascals are like that. Kevala-bodha-labdhaye.

Hari-śauri: That's the futility of the university system now, that they are going and they're accumulating knowledge which is worthless for living. It has no practical value, so all the youth are becoming very frustrated, because . . ..

Prabhupāda: Any sane man will be frustrated. Why you are spending money and going there? Kevala-bodha-labdhaya. Kliśyanti kevala, bhaktim . . . kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye teṣām asau kleśala eva śiṣyate nānyad yathā sthūla-tuṣāvaghātinām (SB 10.14.4). Just like the husk. The outer portion of rice? If there is rice, you husk, beat it, rice will come. The rice is not there, simply husk, what is the use of this beating? It is like that. Rice will not come; simply they are trying to beat it. So the result is they become tired, that's all. The only result is they'll become tired. Kleśala eva śiṣyate, that's all. The result of hard labor is tiresome. So they'll get that only, that's all. They are satisfied, "Now we are tiresome, let us sleep." What you have gotten? "Dust," that's all. This is the philosophy. Bhaktim . . . what is that verse?

Pradyumna: Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8)?

Prabhupāda: Huh? That's not it. Kleśala, kleśala.

Pradyumna: Kleśadikataras . . . kleśa?

Prabhupāda: Kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye teṣām asau kleśala eva śiṣyate nānyad yathā sthūla-tuṣāvaghātinām.

Hari-śauri: It's from the Bhāgavatam?

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is mentioned in the Śrīmad . . . Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Any process you accept, rejecting devotional service, the result will be that there is no profit. You simply labor for nothing, as much as to beat the husk, you'll never get the rice, you will simply be tiresome, that's all. Just like so-called religion. There is no faith in God, there is no need of God, and "religion." What is this nonsense? Religion without God? This is going on. God, you can accept anyone, Ramakrishna Mission. Any rascal. He was a fool, illiterate rascal, Ramakrishna. He became God. No standard, and they are propagating Ramakrishna Mission. As we are preaching Kṛṣṇa is God, they are preaching Ramakrishna. And who's accepting them? For the last hundred years they are preaching. So who has become a devotee of Ramakrishna?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's absurd to even think about becoming a devotee of Ramakrishna.

Prabhupāda: You have got Caitanya-caritāmṛta?

Pradyumna: I think it is Tenth Canto. Śreyaḥ śrutiṁ bhaktim? I've been making a list of all the verses that you quote most . . .

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Pradyumna: . . . where they are from.

śreyaḥ śrutiṁ bhaktim udasya te vibho

kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye

teṣām asau kleśala eva śiṣyate

nānyad yathā sthūla-tuṣāvaghātinām

(SB 10.14.4)

Prabhupāda: There is note?

Pradyumna: Bhaktiṁ vinā jñānaṁ tu naiva siddhyed ity aha śreyaḥ śrutim iti; śreyasam abhyudayāpavarga-lakṣanānaṁ sṛtiḥ śaraṇaṁ, yasyaḥ sarasa iva nirjharanam, taṁ te tava bhaktim udasya tyaktvā śreyasaṁ mārga-bhūtam iti vā; teṣāṁ kleśalaḥ kleśa evāvaśiṣyate. Ayaṁ bhavāḥ yathā alpapramāṇam dhanyaṁ parityajya antaḥ kanahinaṁ sthula-dhanyabhasams tuvaneva vaghnanti, teṣāṁ na kiñcit phalaṁ, evaṁ bhaktiṁ tucchi-kṛtya ye kevala-bodhaya prayatante, teṣām apiti.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Simply tiresome, that's all. Religion, no God. There are so many religions.

Hari-śauri: Soon as they forget the actual religion then there are so many concoctions.

Prabhupāda: "This is our religion." What is religion? "No God." What is religion? Then, those who are godless, they have got religion. Atheism has got religion. Then why bring this religion? What is the meaning of religion? Just see.

Pradyumna: One time we went to a church in Boston to speak. They had only a pulpit for the preacher, and behind, no altar, no crucifix, nothing, just big map of outer space with planets on the wall. Not even any Christian church, but no cross, nothing. Only universe. Universalist Church, it's called. The Universalists.

Prabhupāda: That's nice, but give some information of the universe.

Hari-śauri: (reading from dictionary) Says, "Religion: 1. monastic condition, being a monk or a nun; enter into a monastic order; 2. practice of sacred rites; 3. one of the prevalent systems of faith and worship, i.e. Christian, Muhammadan, etc.; 4. human recognition of superhuman controlling power, and especially of a personal God entitled to obedience; effect of such recognition on conduct and mental attitude."

Prabhupāda: This is religion. Personal conception of God.

Hari-śauri: And then "5. action that one is bound to do."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is there. Any one of them you take. That's good idea, but special conception of personal God, huh? What is that?

Hari-śauri: Yeah. "Human recognition of superhuman controlling power, and especially of a personal God entitled to obedience."

Prabhupāda: That's all, clear. What are the other items?

Hari-śauri: Then, "the effect of such recognition on conduct and mental attitude." And then "action that one is bound to do."

Prabhupāda: One is bound to do. Dharmena hina paśubhiḥ samana. If he does not do, then he's animal. It must be done. There is no question of optional. If you are human being, you must be religious, you must recognize the supreme controller. Otherwise, you are animal. What is the other interpretations? Beginning one?

Hari-śauri: "Monastic condition, being a monk or a nun, or to enter into a monastic order."

Prabhupāda: Just like every religion has got some condition, monastic, is it not?

Hari-śauri: Yes, every religion has a system of priests and, er . . .

Prabhupāda: (coughs severely for a few minutes) Monastic condition?

Hari-śauri: "Practice of sacred rites."

Prabhupāda: So, without reference to God, what is the meaning of sacred rites? Everything is reference that accepting the supreme controller. That is the real meaning. At least, Christian religion accepts God, Muhammadan religion accepts God, or Hindu religion accepts God. So without God, how it can be religion? Hmm? If there is no understanding of God, the conclusion comes that there is no religion. Fictitious. "We trust in God," but do not know what is God. This is going on. So we have to fight against all this nonsense. Nonsense scientists, nonsense religionists. What do you think?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Necessary.

Prabhupāda: It is not easy-going, sleeping business. We have to fight with so many demons. Otherwise, kava dava adakanam, my Guru Mahārāja used to say. Beg some rice, and bring it and cook it, and eat and sleep.

Pradyumna: Kava daka . . .?

Prabhupāda: Kava dava adakanam. As all our Godbrothers are doing. They have got a little temple, and a few devotees go and beg rice and cook it, and eat and sleep, that's all.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's like being dead almost.

Prabhupāda: No fighting spirit. Ṭhākura dekhiya . . . (indistinct)

Pradyumna: Ṭhākura dekhiya . . .?

Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct) . . . just make a Deity, show. Our Tīrtha Mahārāja is doing that. His whole idea was that "I have now captured the birthplace of Caitanya Mahāprabhu by high-court favor. Now I have got everything. People will come, and they'll pay something, and that will be my income for my family," as the caste gosvāmīs do in Navadvīpa and other . . . a means of livelihood. He has no devotion. He wanted as a means of income. Like the Vṛndāvana gosvāmīs, Navadvīpa gosvāmīs do. Little devotion automatically there is. They are, after all, worshiping the Deity. But their purpose is different. Just like we have established Rādhā-Vṛndāvana-candra not that people will come and pay something. Who will come here, in this foreign country or in this secluded place? So our aim is to make the devotees real devotees. Not for earning money. When we establish a center in a place like this, where is the idea of getting money? (laughs) Who will come here? One, it is a foreign country; nobody knows what is Kṛṣṇa. And one has to come with so great difficulty, on the mountain. And who is coming to pay for it? After spending so much money, they will come here to pay? (chuckles) Our process is that wherever we stay, we worship Kṛṣṇa—as far as possible. That we are doing. Not for earning money but spending money. Now Tīrtha Mahārāja is seeing that without getting Caitanya Mahāprabhu's birthsite, Swami Mahārāja, he is attracting lakhs of people. Without the favor of high court, he is attracting. That is his envy. This year, you were not present?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: At Māyāpur?

Prabhupāda: Oh, you were present?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. There were millions of people.

Hari-śauri: That leaflet that he put out that we saw . . .

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I saw that too.

Pradyumna: Leaflet?

Hari-śauri: He put one leaflet advertising that . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no. Apart from that leaflet . . . let them do whatever nonsense. But actually, on the birthday of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, there was the greatest crowd in our temple.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, there was a constant . . . it was just always packed.

Pradyumna: Every year, before, last year, year before, year before, Caitanya Math, only, not . . .

Prabhupāda: Nobody goes.

Pradyumna: No, only their math people, and some people they invite from Calcutta. But the regular people all come into our place.

Prabhupāda: Sometimes we went to Mādhava Mahārāja's temple?

Hari-śauri: In Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: In Vṛndāvana. Who was there?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Empty. Completely no one.

Hari-śauri: They didn't even have any of their own men living there.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They had to unlock the Deity.

Prabhupāda: And that is on the prominent roadside. And our temple is off. Still, so many people are coming. Neither there were inhabitants nor their outsider, visitors. Gate was closed, we had to open and then enter. And he constructed temple at least for the last twenty years.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They have no vision of expanding, except maybe their . . .

Prabhupāda: They make this money-making machine. They do not know the money will automatically come you are sincere. You haven't got to make it a machine. Money Kṛṣṇa will send. But they have no faith in Kṛṣṇa. They have faith in their own ability: "Yes, we shall earn money in this way, by showing the Deity." They don't recognize Kṛṣṇa's everything. They think, "By high-court judgment, if we capture this place, then money will come."

Hari-śauri: Practically speaking, they're finished. They're on their last legs.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, other svāmīs and yogīs, they are finding that this Bhaktivedanta Svami alone is preaching all over the . . . "We, combined, we could not do anything."

Pradyumna: They are all wondering what your secret is. They always wonder. They cannot understand.

Prabhupāda: All the yogīs, svāmīs are there. How it is possible? The Ramakrishna Mission, they are working here for the last hundred years. What they have done? If they had actually preached something, so, so many American boys and gentlemen are coming to our temple, we cannot give them place; we have to find out some other. And who is going to the Ramakrishna temple?

Pradyumna: They have empty house.

Prabhupāda: If actually Vivekananda preached something, out of inquisitiveness they would have gone there. So, "We have heard so much about Ramakrishna and Vivekananda. Let us see what is there." Nobody goes. They do not know even the name. And we are already advertised all over the world, "Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement." At least, everyone knows. Who knows Ramakrishna, Vivekananda?

śreyaḥ śrutiṁ bhaktim udasya te vibho

kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye

teṣām kleśala eva śiṣyate

nānyad yathā sthūla-tuṣāvaghātinām

(SB 10.14.4)

This is Brahma-stotra?

Pradyumna: Yes, Fourteenth Adhyāya. From brahmovaca, Brahma-stuti.

Prabhupāda: Just stick to this principle, then you will be successful. Bhakti śreyaḥ śrutim. That is the real welfare. Śreyaḥ śrutim means "expands auspicity." (break) (apparently talking about a picture) And they want to become one with God. And here is that not one, but God is so lower that He carries the shoe of His devotee. Have they got any conception like this? (laughs)

Hari-śauri: They are always talking about . . .

Prabhupāda: There is a verse, śruti mahāpure śruti mahāpure. You know this?

Pradyumna: Śruti apare?

Prabhupāda: Śruti mahāpure . . . (indistinct) . . . yasya alinde paraṁ brahma. "Let others worship the śrutis and others smṛtis, all these Vedic literature, and others, Mahābhārata for liberation. But I shall worship Nanda Mahārāja, because in his courtyard the Param Brahman is loitering. I shall worship Nanda Mahārāja. He's so powerful that he's made the Param Brahman to come there and carry to his shoes." Śruti mahāpure . . . (indistinct) . . . yasya alinde paraṁ brahma.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That was by a Muslim who became Vaiṣṇava? Once you quoted that, I think that verse, in London.

Prabhupāda: (Prabhupāda is being massaged) That is another, similar verse. Yes, you quoted me. And there is another verse by Bilvamaṅgala, Bilvamaṅgala's Kṛṣṇa-karṇāmṛta. The Muslim, he said, "I was searching after the Param Brahman, and now I see here He is playing with the gopīs." What they will speculate? Everything is there in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Where this picture is given?

Pradyumna: Which book is it in?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It was on the cover of one Back to Godhead magazine.

Hari-śauri: But it's in one of the books.

Pradyumna: Lord Caitanya did the same thing. Maybe in . . . because He did the same thing, and then it was compared Kṛṣṇa also had done.

(long pause)

Prabhupāda: If there is no such acceptance, where is religion?

Hari-śauri: It just becomes a show. Religion nowadays has degenerated so that people more or less accept it just as some moral code now, because there's no knowledge of God.

Prabhupāda: So where is that morality?

Hari-śauri: (laughs) There's no morality either.

Prabhupāda: Woman-hunting, drinking, meat-eating, is that morality?

Hari-śauri: No. (end)