760710 - Conversation - New York

Conversations by Date, 1976

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

760710R1-NEW YORK - July 10, 1976 - 79:24 Minutes

Prabhupāda: So one thing is that when they are so much careful, that means the book is reacting. Otherwise why they are so careful that they may not come? What do you think?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, sometimes they specifically say: "The others may come, but that one man, we don't want him here." (laughs) He gets out twice as many books as anybody else.

Prabhupāda: So, many books or not many books, why they are so much afraid of distributing these books?

Devotee (1): It means that the book is potent.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (1): It means that the books are potent. We are affecting the material energy.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere in government, India especially, they do not want this movement.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the general tendency is . . .

Prabhupāda: But people are appreciating, "Kṛṣṇa consciousness catches."

Hari-śauri: Catches on.

Prabhupāda: They're now appreciating.

Devotee (1): Was that a recent article?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, the general people are taking it up more and more. I mean there is a growing number of interested persons.

Prabhupāda: That he has written.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not only are there numbers of us increasing, but there are many people who come once a week, once every month, who get magazine regularly. That number is increasing beyond what we can imagine, because it's due to the book distribution, Prabhupāda. We're coming due to two things—first the books, and second the association of devotees. But there's a general mass of people that are coming who are just getting the book, and they are beginning to follow simply on account of reading your books.

Devotee (1): This is a big article. Wow.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's another magazine article like that.

Hari-śauri: Rādhā-vallabha's got it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where is he?

Hari-śauri: I don't know.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I asked . . . there's another very special magazine came out, and I asked Rādhā-vallabha to bring it and present it to you. It's from New York, but I wanted him to read some of the things. He read the whole thing. It's a whole magazine devoted to meditation groups, and they have featured our society as the best. It's clear . . .

Prabhupāda: By our features.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Our Society was featured more than any others. They mentioned Maharishi and so many others, but they gave . . .

Prabhupāda: We are also mentioned.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They gave us the most space in the magazine.

Hari-śauri: They did it in sections. There was a bit about kīrtana, there was a section about shaving the head, there's a whole section about Kṛṣṇa prasādam, how to offer it and cook it and everything. It was very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's getting it ready. He wants to read you certain things in the magazine. He likes to prepare things to discuss with you, Rādhā-vallabha, controversial topics.

Prabhupāda: What is that controversial? (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's so nice. He reads things so on the walks, he can throw out scientific arguments and other things. He likes to do that. It's really funny, there's one article, one advertisement in the back of this magazine, meditation magazine. It says: "Special offer: Send in twenty-five dollars and you will learn how to do transcendental meditation in one evening. And if you are not satisfied, you get your money back, but you get to keep your own private mantra." This book is a real . . . it really shows you what the whole scene on spiritual groups is, how phony they are, except ours. Ours appears very legitimate from the magazine. But these others are complete hypocrisy.

Hari-śauri: He especially canes Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, he hates him.

Hari-śauri: They did an experiment, and they tried out . . . if one chants . . . he claims that you have to have a special mantra that comes from him, and that will give you the bliss from transcendental meditation. But they did experiments where they just made up any mantra, just a few words, and concentrated on that, and the effect was exactly the same—sleep. They enter into a . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Semiconscious.

Hari-śauri: Yes, a very low conscious level. The metabolism is very much slowed down. The breathing and heart rate and everything goes right down, and they stay like that, completely relaxed, for twenty minutes, and then for a few minutes they come out. That is the . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can also do that; we'll hit them with our shoes. (laughter) For twenty minutes they can go unconscious. Free. We don't charge.

Hari-śauri: This opening comment in this magazine is very good. It says: "What is surprising about the International Society for Krishna Consciousness is not its conquest of the West, the USA in particular. The cultural impact of this institution, borne on the shoulders of Westerners in the main, has already reached amazing proportions in India."

Prabhupāda: That is my policy.

Devotee (1): That's nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whew. That's why they are afraid of you in India, Prabhupāda. The government is very much afraid.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Government is alarmed.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well how will they try to stop us?

Prabhupāda: Through restrictive government. (door opens) Who is . . .? Let him come.

Devotee (1): Here he comes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (indistinct discussion) Svarūpa Dāmodara Prabhu? Prabhupāda wanted to see that boy, Arjuna Mallik?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I went to find him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I sent someone to look for him, they haven't come back. You haven't seen him? It would be nice, because Prabhupāda wanted to see him.

Prabhupāda: You know him? Arjuna Mallik?

Hari-śauri: I only saw him just this morning.

Prabhupāda: Just find him.

Hari-śauri: But I have no idea where he's staying.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: 703 is the room number.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Svarūpa Dāmodara is looking.

Hari-śauri: This first paragraph recognizes how in the last two years especially our esteem has improved. It says: "One has to see for oneself . . ."

Prabhupāda: Ah, that Sadajivitlal you know.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, very well.

Prabhupāda: He says about me that "Bhaktivedanta Swami has smeared the black carbon of all other svāmīs." (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Black carbon. You know Sadajivitlal from Bombay.

Devotee: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He used to get very angry. He said: "I like your Prabhupāda very much, but why does he have to criticize all of our gurus?"

Prabhupāda: Now he is realizing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because at Cross Maidan you were speaking very boldly that all these others are cheating.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are cheating. Is there any meaning that you pay so many dollars and take the mantra? Mantra is such a thing for business?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In this meditation magazine one of the things that they sell, the special techniques is you take a ping-pong ball, ping-pong, you know, that table tennis? And you cut it in half and you place the two halves on your eyes, and then that is called samādhi. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Who has said?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll show you the picture when he brings the magazine. They show a person very seriously meditating on two halves of a ping-pong ball. You have to pay for it. (laughter)

Devotee (1): Would you like to go up on the roof today, Prabhupāda?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, Prabhupāda said the sun is too much. Toṣaṇa Kṛṣṇa, he's been doing all of our . . . he's practically done the whole arrangement for the Ratha-yātrā. Jayānanda is building, and he has done all of the permits, advertising, publicity, the posters—working at least fifteen hours a day for the last month very hard, to make it a very successful festival. I was thinking, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that Haṁsadūta was telling me that he is planning to make . . .

Prabhupāda: I think this article was dictated by Haṁsadūta.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ah.

Prabhupāda: Our interviewer came.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was telling me that he was planning to make thousands of men, convert thousands of Indians. I was wondering, if thousands of Indians join us, how will the government feel?

Prabhupāda: They cannot check.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really. They won't stop us.

Prabhupāda: If they want to stop it, it will increase.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, right. Especially in Bengal, as soon as the Bengalis know that something is against the government, then they get very vehement.

Devotee: It's encouraging when they try to resist.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They call us sāhībs. It says: "What urges the sāhībs and memsāhībs?" That's how they refer to us.

Prabhupāda: Our Māyāpur temple is known as sāhīb mandira. In Vṛndāvana, English, angrezi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gopāla told me that the guesthouse is doing better. He said that only that eleven rooms right now are occupied by non paying guests, and out of the overall forty-four rooms, only four rooms are occupied by devotees. The devotees have been shifted elsewhere. And Guṇārṇava has been managing.

Prabhupāda: That Toṣaṇa Kṛṣṇa boy was in Vṛndāvana?

Hari-śauri: Stoka Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Stoka. He has left.

Hari-śauri: He's back in Los Angeles now.

Prabhupāda: He does not stick anywhere.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. (looking at magazine) Whew! This picture of Ratha-yātrā in London is very impressive.

Prabhupāda: With smaller rathas.

Hari-śauri: Yes, palanquins.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the crowd is bigger than ever.

Devotee: Yes, huge crowd.

Ādi-keśava: That's when we, ah . . . Toṣaṇa, isn't that the picture that you showed them to show what our carts look like? He told the police, to get our permit, that our carts were like those little small rathas, so that we could get the permit. He said that we were having a parade with hand-pulled floats. When they thought of hand-pulled floats, they thought of little wagons.

Hari-śauri: They're going to get a shock.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's breaking the news to them slowly.

Hari-śauri: We did that in Melbourne. But then gradually we let them see. Then they took us out for a trial run and everything. (break)

Prabhupāda: Note down in the account book. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . presents us as a bona fide Vaiṣṇava, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Vaiṣṇava cult. Says that the ISKCON center, the Māyāpur . . . "ISKCON plans to build in Māyāpur a world center for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It will comprise an enormous temple . . ."

Prabhupāda: This news has been very much advertised.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When will we begin?

Prabhupāda: As soon as we get the land.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The land is coming along?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The land is coming along?

Prabhupāda: Yes, government . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are going ahead with it.

Prabhupāda: Two officials are in great favor: one Mr. Choudhuri, one Mr. Ganguli.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says that the temple will be so big that India has never seen such a huge temple.

Prabhupāda: Choudhuri's wife has challenged that "If you are Hindu, then you will do it."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To her husband. Oh. (laughter) It tells about . . . it quotes you as saying that how you began this movement. Two boys joined you, Chuck and Bruce—Brahmānanda and Acyutānanda, Charles Barnett and Bruce Scharf.

Prabhupāda: Charles is called Chuck?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: (referring to prasādam) What is that?

Ṛṣi-kumāra: (indistinct) . . . it's called rājkachorī. (laughter)

Bali-mardana: Stuffed with dāl, potato, tamarind sauce and sour cream.

Devotee (1): Ṛṣi's making up for lost time.

Prabhupāda: Where you learned this?

Ṛṣi-kumāra: In Kailash Shaksharya's.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Ṛṣi-kumāra: From Kailash Shaksharya's cook. At least I learned something there.

Prabhupāda: From that cook, Kailash's cook?

Ṛṣi-kumāra: Yes.

Prabhupāda: He was very expert. In India, a girl, if she could cook nicely, then she is perfect. There is a ceremony, it is called bahubhat. After marriage the girl comes to her father-in-law's house and there is a ceremony called bahubhat. In that bahubhat, the girl is to cook and distribute this food to all the relatives of her husband. If they say it is excellent, then she is accepted in this family.

Bali-mardana: What if they say it is not excellent?

Prabhupāda: Nobody says. (laughter) But the ceremony is made. The social system in India is that, "If I do not accept your food, then I do not take you within my inner circle. You remain outside."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a great offense if you offer someone prasādam and they refuse.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That means I am not accepting you as intimate. And if he accepts, then you cannot deny his friendship. About one hundred years ago in Bengal, in the aristocratic circle, the guests invited and very sumptuously food distributed, and then the gentlemen, guests, they come and see only, they will simply say: "Oh, it is very nicely done." They'll not eat, and go away. Then the foodstuff will be distributed among the servants. This was aristocracy. They'll not eat, they will simply see and appreciate, "Oh, you have so many varieties, very nice." Then they'll go. And the household servants and others, they eat it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why didn't they eat it?

Prabhupāda: That was the custom.

Bali-mardana: That is a dry philosophy. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: You have seen this article?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.

Prabhupāda: Other news, after Mars? No?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I haven't seen the newspapers yet. Might have some more . . . been taking pictures, photographs.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda explained that the picture they took of Mars, they now say that there's . . . they pointed out that there's a similar canyon, the Grand Canyon, in Arizona. So they were reporting like this, and Prabhupāda said this is an indication that actually it is a picture of . . . they have unintentionally they have let out the information that actually the photo is simply a photograph of the Grand Canyon.

Hari-śauri: He gave an example. There's a man in his room at night, and he hears a noise. So he says: "Oh, what's that sound?" And then back comes the reply, "I am not stealing." So no one asked the man to say what he was doing, but he unintentionally let it out what he was actually doing there. He just asked what the noise was, but he said: "I am not stealing." So in the same way, no one asked them to say anything about Arizona, but they let it out.

Prabhupāda: They have disclosed unintentionally. That is going on. It is beyond their dream to go either to the moon planet or Mars planet. It is not possible. Not nowadays I say—I said it ten years ago.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We're going to have a difficult time, with the scientists, about this moon.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We're going to have a difficult time about this moon and the sun relationship.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sunday, Monday.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is a lifelong project. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Nobody could answer, a simple question. (Hari-śauri explains "Sunday, Monday" question in background) According to Vedic astronomical calculations, sun is first.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But does it have to do anything with distance, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Does it have to do anything with the distance? As the sun is recorded first?

Prabhupāda: No, according to them if sun is first, then it will be ninety-three millions miles. And if the moon is still away, one million six hundred thousand miles, it becomes ninety-five million miles. How they are going ninety-five millions of miles in four days?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, on that ground it is reasonable to know that they couldn't go there, but . . .

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say they couldn't go there. Their asset is Arizona, that's all. All this propaganda has gone, and at last they wanted to satisfy by delivering some sand and rock, that's all. Actually the business was not done.

Hari-śauri: They say even if there's life on another planet, at most it could be bacteria.

Prabhupāda: Nonsense. If bacteria is there, why not others?

Hari-śauri: Well the thing is that if they say that there's other life, then they'd have to show it. But they don't know what's there 'cause they've never been. So they have to show either there's no life and here's some rocks, which they got from this planet, or at most there's only bacteria, which they can also produce here and say it's there. But they can't show any advanced life because they don't know.

Prabhupāda: They have never gone. Simply bluff. That is my point.

Ṛṣi-kumāra: Whenever they don't know something, they say it doesn't exist.

Prabhupāda: I have got evidence, our Vedic literature.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We have other informations other than Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We have other evidences?

Prabhupāda: We have evidence from astronomy, Jyoti-śāstra. Jyoti-śāstra.

Rādhā-vallabha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, Manasvī is here.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Rādhā-vallabha: Manasvī. Shall I tell him to come in?

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Sit down. Wherefrom you are coming?

Manasvī: New Jersey, Hoboken.

Prabhupāda: Where is your child?

Manasvī: She's downstairs.

Prabhupāda: With whom he is there?

Manasvī: With her brother.

Prabhupāda: So? What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is the magazine I was telling you about, Transcendental Meditation Today.

Prabhupāda: That is the name of the magazine?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The feature article is . . .

Prabhupāda: This is our?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Big article all about our Society.

Prabhupāda: Oh, my picture also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Prabhupāda, ācārya-founder." Tells all about you and your books.

Hari-śauri: It especially mentions your books.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is a whole page devoted about your books.

Hari-śauri: This is the dome downstairs.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Hare Kṛṣṇa Meditation. Who is Kṛṣṇa?" (laughs) "The Kṛṣṇa Cut." It tells about the haircut, śikhā. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: "Kṛṣṇa cut." (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then in the back there's more articles about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There's the . . . here, "Food for the gods, prasādam."

Hari-śauri: Describes what standard we have for making the prasādam, how you can't taste it, you have to be very clean.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's that . . . remember I was telling you about that meditation on the ping-pong balls?

Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughter)

Devotee: "Ganzfeld effect." They give it a name and make it sound very important, and then sell it for a thousand dollars.

Prabhupāda: Who's name?

Devotee (1): Ganzfeld. They say the Ganzfeld effect.

Prabhupāda: Who is Ganzfeld? Somebody know?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's an article about Maharishi. (aside) You want to read it? There's some points in here, it says: "Profit without honor." This man hates Maharishi, says he's completely bogus.

Prabhupāda: His picture is hateful.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says: "Profit without any honor." He quotes you in here.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says: "Swami Prabhupāda, spiritual leader of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, and Bill Faill, Durban, South Africa, of the Natal Mercury Reporter, had the following dialogue—Bill Faill: Do you think that Transcendental Meditation is helping people?

Prabhupāda: They do not know what real meditation is. Their meditation is simply a farce, another cheating process by the so-called svāmīs and yogīs. So everyone is talking about meditation, but no one knows what meditation really is. These bluffers use the word meditation, but they do not know the proper subject for meditation. They are simply talking bogus propaganda. Bill Faill: But isn't meditation helpful in getting people to think straight? Prabhupāda: No. Real meditation means to achieve a state in which the mind is saturated by God consciousness."

Prabhupāda: Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). This is the Vedic version. When one man's mind is fully absorbed in the Supersoul, Viṣṇu, that is called meditation. And Bhagavad-gītā confirms:

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

mad-gatenāntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

(BG 6.47)

These are the Vedic version. These rascals—some light, some this, some that.

Rādhā-vallabha: There are some quotes here from people describing Maharishi's meditation. It says: "A Denver housewife said: 'I turned off when I found that TM' " that's what they call Transcendental Meditation, " 'I turned off when I found that TM is trying to sell me meditation the same way Proctor and Gamble sells me soap.' "

Prabhupāda: Gamble?

Rādhā-vallabha: Big soap company.

Hari-śauri: Proctor and Gamble manufacture all kinds of soaps and detergents, so she's saying that the way they sell Transcendental Meditation is the same as the way they sell soap.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very commercialized.

Rādhā-vallabha: They have here proof that his mantra is no different than any ordinary sound. It says: "In a Stanford Research Institute experiment, a group of TM trainees was compared to a control group who had been taught a fake mantra that they believed would be effective. In both groups some subjects were able to bring unpleasant psychosomatic symptoms under control. Three of these dropped out of the TM training group. Their symptoms returned. Two dropped out of the control group, their symptoms came back too. Evidence like that suggests that whatever works in the TM system, it does not depend upon the mystical mantra."

Prabhupāda: Let their men come and talk with our men in a public meeting. Then people will understand what is the difference.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have a catalog, Transcendental Meditation University. It's very well done, nice colors and anything, first class. They spend a lot of money and a lot of thoughts how to bring . . . how to attract the students.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says their University's just closed down.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, the one at Iowa?

Hari-śauri: No, the one in Majorca, in Spain.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is the headquarters, Iowa, the main University. We saw the catalog. It contains everything, all sciences.

Hari-śauri: This article explains that when he first appeared in public, he presented himself as a Hindu representative of Śaṅkarācārya's cult, but then later on he concocted this Transcendental Meditation, and then he presented it as a science so that he could get government grants to teach it in schools and things like this.

Rādhā-vallabha: They have another guru here, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh.

Prabhupāda: He has also come?

Rādhā-vallabha: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His group is big here. He's very popular in America.

Rādhā-vallabha: Eighteen thousand disciples. He says: "It does not matter to whom one surrenders. The relevance is in the act of surrendering. But because the human mind sees things in terms of relationships, surrender to a guru is often useful. The guru is a step toward the impersonal divine, a step toward surrender to the existence."

Hari-śauri: He makes a comment about sannyāsa as well, I think.

Rādhā-vallabha: He initiates sannyāsa, they call themselves neo-sannyāsa. "At initiation a sannyāsī receives a new name, an ochre robe and a mālā, a string of beads holding a locket that frames a photograph of Bhagwan."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhagwan Rajneesh, not Bhagavān.

Rādhā-vallabha: The one who says it's not necessary to have a spiritual master. He says: "The picture is not mine. Had it been mine I would have hesitated to put it there. The picture only appears as mine."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's word jugglery. (laughter) The picture is of himself, he says: "It is not me. If it was me I would not have put it there. It only appears to be me."

Devotee (1): They want something very cheap and easy to attain.

Rādhā-vallabha: Here's his method. First they engage in breathing. It says: "The really successful meditator sounds like an exhausted sea lion." He says: "If you feel like dancing, dance, laugh, scream, sing, express your love, your hate, your anger, your jealousy. Do not condemn what happens; do not condone it. Just go mad. Express whatever is within you totally, intensely." And here's his mantra, "Hoo hoo hoo." That's his mantra.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were doing this in Bhopal. In Bhopal, we were there when we had our Jeeps. So in the same place we were staying they let this group Rajneesh do it. So they were going with that mantra, "Hoo hoo." So we were standing out from the balcony shouting, "Kṛṣṇa, that's who." Every morning they would do that meditation, and we would answer "Kṛṣṇa." (laughter)

Hari-śauri: They call his method "chaotic meditation."

Prabhupāda: They say?

Hari-śauri: That's the heading, it says "Chaotic Meditation."

Rādhā-vallabha: That's the name of it. After they go "Hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo . . ."

Prabhupāda: What about . . . what they have written about us?

Rādhā-vallabha: About us?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A big article.

Rādhā-vallabha: Everything is favorable. They didn't say one bad thing about us.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says: "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. The group above are performing a kīrtana, the chanting of the names of Kṛṣṇa, the Vedic Deity they believe to be the supreme personification of Godhead. They are shown before the doorway of 1 Astor Plaza in Manhattan's Times Square area. Their chant, increasingly familiar on street corners in all large cities across the country, runs, 'Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.' These Kṛṣṇa devotees belong to the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, ISKCON, less formally known as the Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement and still less formally to the man in the street as the Harry Kṛṣṇas." (laughter) Actually, Prabhupāda, one . . .

Prabhupāda: Harry Kṛṣṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They think that we're worshiping a person, some material man, by the name of Harry Kṛṣṇa. They think that your name is Harry Kṛṣṇa. (laughter)

Ādi-keśava: In Boston they once wrote an article in the newspaper, the Boston Globe, they said: "I walked into the temple room and there he was, a big picture of Harry Kṛṣṇa sitting on a big throne." (laughter) On the vyāsāsana.

Hari-śauri: Harry is an English . . .

Prabhupāda: Harry, Harrison, like that.

Devotee (1): They are saying Kṛṣṇa's name.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I read more? "There are several hundred thousand members of the movement . . . several hundred thousand members of the movement throughout the world. Ten thousand in New York City alone." Actually, there are at least ten thousand followers. "Of these, about a hundred and fifty are full-time students and live at 340 West Fifty-fifth Street, an eleven-story former Josephine Baird Home of the Roman Catholic Carmelite Nuns." This was a nunnery, Carmelite nuns. "The Hare Kṛṣṇa center on West Fifty-fifth Street draws about five hundred lay devotees and curiosity-seekers from the metropolitan area every Sunday. Open house begins at five p.m. A great drawing card is the serving of prasādam, food specially prepared for and offered to Lord Kṛṣṇa before being distributed to the public. The eating of prasādam (see the article 'Food of the Gods' on a later page), is believed by members of the movement to convey important spiritual benefits—for example, the cleansing of karma due to past sins. Movement members are not unaware of the more immediate and mundane effect. Prasādam is our secret weapon,' said Alaṅkāra dāsa, spokesman for the center. 'It gets them in here, and then they can get the message.' Les Tursley, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami, India-based senior member of the movement, has said of prasādam in his country . . ."

Rādhā-vallabha: They think you're an Indian.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They think I'm an Indian. " 'If anyone comes around to our prasādam distribution program, that means he is hungry. If he is hungry, that means he cannot listen to our philosophy. If his hunger is not satisfied, he'll never become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the point. If we just went around with a program of speaking and kīrtana, they would come once or twice but they wouldn't see its practical value. But if you give them prasādam daily with kīrtana and speaking, eventually you can convince them, "Look, this is our most practical way of life. Why don't you come and live with us completely and work with us?" That's a quote from an article in Back to Godhead. "Though food is far more plentiful in the United States than in India, prasādam appeal seems to work its magic here just as well. The entire movement began only ten years ago in a storefront temple in Manhattan's Lower East Side. Today it owns the largest publishing house of Hindu classics, many in demand for leading university courses. The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust in Los Angeles, the world's largest, last year's gross of one million dollars; incense-producing Spiritual Sky Scented Products Company; and Kṛṣṇa Fashions Incorporated, a wholesale clothing manufacturer. An important portion of the movement's income comes from the contributions of lay devotees, who are successful businessmen. More comes from street-corner solicitation of alms by devotees during kīrtana. How significant the last is was shown recently by the closing down of elevator service in the New York center. 'A lot of us are going on pilgrimage to India,' said Alaṅkāra dāsa. 'There won't be many around to beg. These elevators cost us $2,200 a month to run. So we're cutting down except for essential services.' " We don't do that anymore. That was the previous mismanagement. Someone had the idea that if you turn off the elevator, that's very good. But I told him if you're not going to run the elevator, then why did you move here? They had people walking up eleven stories, and it was crazy, just to save . . . anyway, "These include moving foodstuffs and milk into the building. Much of the food comes from a 350-acre ISKCON-owned dairy farm in Academia, Pennsylvania, one of the six similar facilities in this country and Canada." They show pictures of devotees in the temple, devotees taking prasādam and two lady devotees. "The yoga," it says under the captions, "monks take breakfast by hand in rows on the dining area floor." Here it says, "Saried women devotees dwell in cloister atmosphere of the center." Then "The yoga of devotion: Tilaka of clay paste marks the devotee as a member of ISKCON sect. Central shrine in the temple is the focal point of twice a day services." A picture of Rādhā-Govinda. " 'Our life is our meditation' said a śikhā-ed, saffron-clad monk in the Hare Kṛṣṇa center. 'Everything we do is offered to Śrī Kṛṣṇa, but in addition to that there is the personal chanting, most . . .' " (break) ". . . slung from the devotee's neck. He often counts the beads without taking his hand from the pouch. In the early hours the Hare Kṛṣṇa center buzzes with a droning sound, difficult to identify by the stranger who does not know that it comes from the monks, who are beginning their required sixteen rounds." They have given everything very detailed. "The personal chanting sometimes occurs in unusual situations—while escorting a visitor to the center, while waiting to complete a phone call, or even during pauses in a conversation." (laughter) Devotees are always chanting. " 'The mahāmantra is the only mantra needed' the devotee says. Besides the sixteen rounds, devotees are expected to observe four rules. They must abstain from meat-eating, intoxication, gambling and illicit sex. Illicit sex is defined as any sexual act other than that intended for procreation. Sex outside of marriage is forbidden. Married, full-time devotees may have sexual relationship once a month at a time propitious for procreation. All the devotee's activities are regarded as bhakti-yoga, the yoga of devotion. He regards everything he does as service to God. The name he is given at initiation is followed by the word dāsa, 'a servant.' Full-time ISKCON devotees adopt Vedic dress, one objective being to keep others aware of Kṛṣṇa. Women wear sārīs, the men dhotīs; both may wear shawls. The men shave their heads except for a single lock of hair at the back. (See the article 'The Kṛṣṇa Cut.') The lock, called a śikhā, identifies the followers of Kṛṣṇa." Actually, no one can imitate us because no one wants to give up their hair, so no one will try to make believe they are devotees. "Shaving the head announces renunciation of material pleasures. The tilaka is a mark made with clay—two narrow vertical stripes on the forehead meeting in a triangular swatch on the bridge of the nose. It identifies the body as a temple to be used only in the service of God. Full-time students follow a rigorously monastic life. They arise at four a.m. in the morning, begin four hours of prayer and chanting. At nine o'clock they have breakfast, seated cross-legged on mats on the floor. The men eat apart from the women. During the day devotees work at various preaching programs or at regular jobs. At seven p.m. devotional services are held in the center's temple. In Manhattan this features an ornate shrine including representations of Kṛṣṇa and His consort, Rādhe. Both are costumed sumptuously with elaborate care; both wear festoons of flowers. Visitors are cautioned, 'When you go in the temple remember that these statues you see are not representations of the Deities, they are the Deities. Kṛṣṇa is in everything. Kṛṣṇa is everywhere.' Temple kīrtana." There's a picture. "Eleven-story New York sect's center is former Carmelite Baird home." Picture of the temple. "Services in the temple are attended by about five hundred every Sunday. Many of these are from New York's Hindu population. Frequently husbands bring their pregnant wives, dedicating their unborn child to Kṛṣṇa. The kīrtana begins with the chanting of the mahā-mantra, slowly at first and melodiously. Later the chant will speed up as the spirit of the devotion spreads. Often the most rapid and intense chanting is done by a hard-core knot of dhotī-ed men before the curtains of the shrine." The devotees get in one group and start . . . (laughter) Hard-core devotees. "The rhythm approaches that of an express train, and the atmosphere is apt to remind a lay visitor of an old-fashioned football rally. Some of the onlookers try to keep up with the central group, clapping their hands, swaying their bodies, throwing arms upwards and, among the younger, adapting modern dance steps to the rhythm. When the shrine curtains are drawn back, devotees kneel and press their foreheads . . ."

Prabhupāda: Who has introduced this peculiar dancing?

Hari-śauri: It just evolved. (laughs)

Rūpānuga: We were speaking about that the other day. It's changed from the original dancing that you showed us to something else. Too much like the modern dancing.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. I think this is not good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Shall I read on, Prabhupāda? "The service has become . . ." What way should we dance, Śrīla Prabhupāda? With our hands outstretched? Sometimes the devotees like to jump around. Is that all right?

Prabhupāda: In ecstasy one can do anything, that is another . . . but artificially to do something is not good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But if one feels like jumping, it is all right?

Prabhupāda: Anything artificial is not required.

Rūpānuga: So running back and forth is not . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no, that should not be an artificial.

Hari-śauri: We don't dance for show; we dance for the pleasure of the Deities.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we're not professional dancers. "The service has become so frenetic that the almost folksy, matter of fact preaching of the Swami makes a stark contrast. 'Some people are against us because they say we teach children to smile. Well isn't that too bad. We make children smile—we are bad. We try to teach them that life should be a joyful thing—we're evil. Well that's too bad, isn't it? ' "

Devotees: Who's that? That's crazy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is theory. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: So he has not returned with the key?

Hari-śauri: Who? Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Still more?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. "After the sermon, more chanting. Now it really becomes frantic, and even compelling. Many curious first-time visitors begin to take up the mahā-mantra chant. The hard-core group at the shrine seems to be completely carried away. The terrazo floor literally vibrates. Gradually the crowd begins to thin. Other things are happening in the center. On the third floor there is a traditional Vedic play in costume, acted with enthusiasm." (sound of kīrtana)

Hari-śauri: It's going downstairs somewhere, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Ādi-keśava: They're getting everybody together to go out on saṅkīrtana party.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says here, "On the second floor there is a store which attracts many visitors who want to buy Indian costumes, jewelry and the movement's books. Prasādam is served in the basement restaurant. Visitors eat at tables in the same area where monks had breakfast on the floor. The prasādam features Hindu dishes served in the compartments of plasticized paper mess trays." Then it goes on. Now there's another article about you. (aside) Why are they holding a kīrtana now?

Ādi-keśava: They're getting a kīrtana party together to go out on hari-nāma down at Times Square. (indistinct conversation among devotees)

Prabhupāda: Hmm. What does he say?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Prabhupāda, ācārya-founder, born Abhay Charan De in India in 1895, the founder . . . future founder-ācārya, spiritual leader of ISKCON, came under the spiritual direction of Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja, ascetic scholar and preacher who had devoted his life to the spread of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Three years later, shortly before he died, Bhaktisiddhānta ordered Abhay to spread the Kṛṣṇa faith in the English language. One of the ways that Abhay, now known as Prabhupāda—'one at whose feet masters sit'—did that was to begin to translate the classic Vedic literature, but it was not until thirty years after he was charged by his spiritual mentor that he was able to make a trip to the United States. He arrived in Boston in September 1965, a spry but grim-faced passenger of seventy years on the steamer Jaladuta. He had forty rupees in his pocket and a metal suitcase full of his books and translations. Finding his way to New York City, he set up a storefront temple at 26 Second Avenue in the East Village section. Gradually he drew a small coterie of students around him, mostly through his preaching in Tompkinson Park. As his movement grew, he found backers among his converts. Hare Kṛṣṇa centers were established in Boston, Buffalo and San Francisco, and an appreciation of Prabhupāda's Vedic translations by American university authorities, Columbia, Princeton, Yale professors among others, permitted the establishment of the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust in Los Angeles. The Trust launched a promotion of Prabhupāda's translations and original works under the logo of the Living Library of Transcendental Knowledge. Remarkably, in the face of a worldwide economic recession, the Trust's book and magazine sales reached nine million in 1975, up 34.5 percent over 1974. Some of this was due to the determined promotion of groups such as the hundred-man Rādhā-Dāmodara group, which criss-crosses the country in six Greyhound-type buses and ten vans giving lectures and kīrtanas at college university campuses. Now eighty-one years old, Prabhupāda still works at his writings and the spiritual direction of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. His translation of Bhagavad-gītā, the Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, the most widely used in the Western world, is in great demand by professors of Indology and Vedic literature."

Prabhupāda: He has given advertisement for our books.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. Very favorable.

Rādhā-vallabha: The amazing thing is that he's an impersonalist.

Prabhupāda: Impersonalist?

Rādhā-vallabha: The man who wrote all of these articles, he's an impersonalist.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's a picture of him.

Prabhupāda: Oh, he's American?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.

Tripurāri: He thinks there are different types of meditation that all work, and ours is one type, bona fide, that works. There are also other types.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The article goes on—I don't know if you want to hear it all. You want to hear it? Okay. Here's this thing called "Who is Kṛṣṇa?" "Kṛṣṇa, viewed by ISKCON as the supreme personification of Godhead, is said to have many pastimes in which He assumes different appearances. One such is that of Gopālajī, the cowherd boy (see picture, 'Cowherd Boy') He can appear in other forms such as four-armed Nārāyaṇa. Most often Kṛṣṇa is portrayed as having light blue skin and, by Western standards, a soft and effeminate physique. He is said to be full in the six opulences: beauty, strength, fame, wealth, knowledge and renunciation. He is said to be all-attractive. Kṛṣṇa incarnates on one planet after another in infinite universes. The last time He appeared on earth as Kṛṣṇa was five thousand years ago. He will not return in that form for another four hundred thousand years. But five hundred years ago He appeared in His incarnation of Lord Caitanya, who taught people of the mahā-mantra and started the Kṛṣṇa consciousness in its present state. According to the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa hungers for the devotion of His followers." Very nicely put. "This devotion in its pure sense takes the form of bhakti-yoga, the dedication of one's every action to Kṛṣṇa. Thus to use one's sense for one's own pleasure is to deny Kṛṣṇa devotion and accumulate negative karma. Kṛṣṇa has a consort, Rādhe, but She is considered only as an extension of His own pleasure principle, since He is all things. It is through Her intercession that devotees seek favors from Kṛṣṇa. According to ISKCON, Kṛṣṇa is the same God worshiped as Jehovah, Allah and so on." That is the explanation of who Kṛṣṇa is.

Rādhā-vallabha: He could write for Back to Godhead.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Rādhā-vallabha: He could write for Back to Godhead.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good. Then there is a part called "Hare Kṛṣṇa Meditation." "The Hare Kṛṣṇas practice bhakti, the yoga of devotion. They have their mahā-mantra, continual recitation of which will have a meditative effect. By integrating recitation of the mantra with a life of rigidly formulated devotional activities, it would seem that devotees actually live their meditation. Such a life of living meditation is not without parallel in secular fields. It is believed that the spiritual form of alchemy served this purpose; that is, an alchemist repeated the same experimental routine over and over until it became automatized, though still requiring some slight personal involvement." He's getting a little far out here. "It was expected that the result . . ." This is material. Anyway, ". . . practitioners of Western magical disciplines sought for similar results. Meditation takes effect in terms of the ambiance in which it is practiced. In the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement there are certain to be transcendental experiences. They would be in accord with Vedic teachings, but their exact nature has not proven easy of discovery, since devotees insist that their sole aim in life is to be of service to Kṛṣṇa." We're not interested in experiencing all of these special things.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very nice point. Then there's a part about the Kṛṣṇa cut. Says here, "Badge. The badge of the monks is a single lock that hangs from a rear of shaven head. As a precisely trimmed śikhā is a matter of pride, monks often cooperate in shaving one another. Hair is buzzed off by clipper (left side), leaving a bristly surface (center)"—shows the bristly surface.

Prabhupāda: He has taken photograph of it?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughter) Yes. ". . . which is lathered up and shaved with a safety razor (right side). Even more striking than their saffron dhotīs and shawls is the ISKCON men's practice of shaving their heads with the exception of one long lock in the rear, known as the śikhā. The first reaction of the layman is "Why do they do it?" The next is "How do they do it?" The Hare Kṛṣṇas themselves advance three different answers to the first question. Some say that in countries that have hot climates, the religious have always shaved their heads to ensure cleanliness. A clean body reflects a pure spirit."

Prabhupāda: One letter should be written to him that, "You have taken so much trouble to describe Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, so thank you for your patience. Now we shall request you to read our books and review it. That will be real presentation of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. Now you have studied superficially, and if you seriously study our books, you'll get more knowledge and you'll be able to give description of the movement more definitely."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want to hear about what else he has to say?

Prabhupāda: Um-hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Others insist that the style of shaving the head identifies devotees of various spiritual orders. The long śikhās marks a man as a follower of Kṛṣṇa. Still another group says that the head-shaving simply stands for renunciation of the material world, its values and its pleasures. One or more of those reasons may be the true one. Possibly all of them have a multi-determined . . . have multi-determined the Kṛṣṇa cut. The 'how' of the cut is simplicity itself. Commonly two men cut each others' hair. Our pictures show how. Phase one of the cutting, known as the buzz-off, is done with ordinary . . ." (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Buzz off? (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. ". . . is done with ordinary hair clipper. The post buzz-off effect . . ." (laughter)

Rūpānuga: This guy's made a science out of it. (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ". . . shown in the second picture. Next, the prickly sconce."

Prabhupāda: What is that meaning?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prickly sconce. Prickly means short-haired, and sconce means . . .?

Hari-śauri: Look it up in the dictionary. (laughter)

Rādhā-vallabha: People like to think they are scientific like this.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says: "The prickly sconce is lathered up with an old-fashioned mug and brush and shaved with a safety razor. It is considered of paramount importance that the base of the śikhā be shaved round evenly. The shavee sometimes shows some nervousness about this." He gets nervous that they'll cut his śikhā off. This man has caught every detail.

Prabhupāda: Good writer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he's a good one.

Hari-śauri: It says "Sconce: crown of head." It's an old term for the crown of the head.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a special article about prasādam, Prabhupāda, called "Food for the Gods." "Of all the ways of getting to heaven, or nirvāṇa, or whatever your ideal place may be, the Hare Kṛṣṇa way is one of the most pleasant. Believers of this faith are convinced that you can eat your way into higher spiritual realms. Of course, this doesn't mean that food itself is sacred and the more you eat the holier you are. To begin with, there is a strict prohibition against the killing of animals, so meat, fish and eggs are not included in the diet at all of the Kṛṣṇa devotees. Furthermore, there are many special rules for preparing the food which may be offered to Kṛṣṇa to be blessed by Him and therefore to bring blessings to anyone who partakes of it." Should I read this whole article?

Prabhupāda: Um-hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "The recipes given below, taken from the Hare Kṛṣṇa Cookbook"—another good advertisement, and they give you at least three or four recipes in here. They give recipes for, the recipes are for . . .

Prabhupāda: Anyway, he has given more pages for our movement.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, he's given us three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve pages. And the whole magazine, including many advertisements . . . actually the nonadvertised part is about fifty-five pages, of which we have twelve. At least one fifth of the book is for Hare Kṛṣṇa. The other groups only have three pages, four pages. And he blasts them mostly. Some of them are really nonsense. Here's one called the Deichmann Experiment. You stare at a vase . . .

Prabhupāda: Another meditation.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, this is another one, Deichmann Experiment. Then they have one about Zen Buddhism, it shows Zen meditation. Here's a Zen master sitting in front of a basketball. I don't know why.

Ādi-keśava: They have a meditation they call Zen basketball.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Ādi-keśava: We went to one seminar once when they were teaching Zen basketball.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's another one, "Hypnotism or Meditation?" "A hypnotist discusses a question that many face." Because they accuse that we're hypnotizing, so they're trying to distinguish in this article what is hypnotism, what is meditation. Then here's another one, "The Art of Awareness." This woman is supposed to be a great transcendental artist. You can see some of her famous pictures. Here's a picture called "Congregations of Souls." And here's another picture called "Temple Stones." Then this is the Ganzfeld Effect. (laughter) Ping-pong balls. Says here, "The apparently pop-eyed lady is not a visitor from another dimension nor the victim of a sudden surprise. She is the subject of an experiment into the nature of meditation and some of the effects of the processes. The ping-pong ball halves present a completely continuous visual field. There's no object in it that can hold her attention. After staring at the insides of the ping-pong balls for a while, she will begin to feel peaceful and . . ."

Prabhupāda: Actually she does?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, that's the meditation. They put the ping-pong ball, and then it describes, "She will feel peaceful and serene. At the same time she may not be able to tell whether her eyes are open or closed. She will see neither white nor black nor any shade in between. She will have the experience of not seeing. At that point, which the subject in this kind . . ."

Prabhupāda: With the eyes closed, then not seeing is there already. (laughter) What is the use of meditating?

Hari-śauri: You aren't going to see very much with two ping-pong balls over your eyes, are you? (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "The white hemispheres covering her eyes are halves of ping-pong balls. The wires lead off to an electroencephalograph, E.E.G. It keeps a record of changes in her brainwave output. At that point when she is not seeing, which subjects in this kind of experiment call 'blanking out,' the electroencephalograph will record a brainwave output well into the alpha range." They also tell you how to make the Ganzfeld, how to cut the . . . it shows a ping-pong ball and a knife. (laughter) This guy is weird.

Hari-śauri: This thing about alpha range, this is becoming a big thing. They think that if a person gets into this alpha range of brain stimulation, then his meditation is successful.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're trying to figure it all out scientifically.

Ādi-keśava: They're trying to use all kinds of machines and wires to measure consciousness. They have one group that has tin cans attached to wires, and they hold them in their hand, and then they measure it on the machine as they meditate. And when they meditate right, the needle on the machine goes right in the middle, and they think they have achieved perfection.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here is an article called "Travels Beyond the Body: What is it that travels, and what is it that's seen?" They're talking about traveling beyond your body. Here's an advertisement, "Because I have taken the mystery out of transcendental meditation, I will teach you to master transcendental meditation in a single evening." "About the author." Then it says: "Free private mantra based on your own name, selected by the great Norbell, translated by his special Sanskrit system, so that no one else in America has the same mantra twice. No other system of transcendental meditation . . ."

Prabhupāda: What is this? Maharishi?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Maharishi Yogi?

Hari-śauri: No, this is competition.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, this isn't . . .

Hari-śauri: This is the competition.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This man says: "Norbell, for over thirty years his unrelenting thirst for spiritual fulfillment has taken him to the most remote corners of the globe to finally become one of the few Westerners in our time who has ever gained acceptance as an equal among the holy masters of both India and Tibet. He has also mastered the scientific secrets of Western knowledge in America's most highly regarded universities. In America alone over the past decades, tens of thousands have come to Carnegie Hall in New York and dozens of other centers of public hearing all to hear him." He says: "Meditation can make this claim alone, and it's yours to keep. Your own mantra free, even if you return the report itself. Mail this coupon at no risk today. 'Gentlemen, please rush me a copy of Norbell's five minute de-mystified transcendental meditation.' " (laughter) De-mystified, taking the mystery out. "Confidential report. 'I enclose nine dollars and ninety-eight cents in full payment. I understand that I may examine this confidential report for thirty days at your risk or money back. Also send me my own private mantra, specially selected for me by Master Norbell and mine absolutely free, even if I return the report, with every cent of my money back.' " It says here—these are the benefits of the mantra—one of the benefits is, it says here, one of the benefits, "and as an extra benefit of such heightened personal magnetism, a simple shift in the focus of your daily meditations can give you great new sexual and romantic powers, new joys in love."

Devotee (1): They're all cheaters. It's just another con.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's another group called Arika. This Arika costs three thousand dollars, this process. They charge three thousand dollars for a ninety-day course.

Ādi-keśava: Part of their whole meditation is they have cocktail parties. They drink liquor and they meet and they have these therapy, and they charge him money to go to a cocktail party and call it yoga.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyway, it's got a good article about us. You want to keep it to show guests who come, the article?

Prabhupāda: No. (laughter)

Hari-śauri: Anyone who reads that magazine will immediately become attracted to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there's no comparison.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's got the best article I've ever seen, though, about us, in great detail. It really reports the details.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. This is also good article. (break) Hmm! Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa, where is the key? Key? Distribute this prasādam . . . (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You can see how he's cooking very . . . he's the most expert I've ever seen, and he knows these special preparations. He can cook many varieties of kachorī. (end)