760821 - Conversation B - Hyderabad

Conversations by Date, 1976

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

760821R2-HYDERABAD - August 21, 1976 - 31:28 Minutes

(Conversation About Blitz News Clipping)

Prabhupāda: What is . . . (indistinct) . . .? There is appreciation. And send all these newspaper clippings about us in Hyderabad . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I'm sending that to . . .

Prabhupāda: . . . how they are receiving.

Gargamuni: I had those printed up now.

Hari-śauri: Even the chief minister.

Prabhupāda: Even the chief minister.

Gargamuni: He said praises ISKCON.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, Asnani's office is in the same building as Blitz. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Make a strong case immediately, without delay.

Pradyumna: Get a friendly lawyer.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Go ahead. Next . . .

Pradyumna: (reading article) "In point, in Bombay, a huge plot was acquired in Juhu for rupees fourteen lakhs. They have put up a temple there with a barbed wire fence around it."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Where is the barbed wire?

Pradyumna: They just put things to make it seem like we're . . . (laughing) What is the . . . everyone is . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, the barbed wire is there. No Blitz editor can go there. (laughter) No rogues and Blitz editors allowed. (laughter)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I heard . . . Ācārya was telling me when he came from America first in the Hare Kṛṣṇa Land, that Blitz editor . . .

Prabhupāda: You write this, "The barbed wire is there to keep away the dogs and Blitz editor."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughing) Okay.

Pradyumna: (reading) "Then point: At Vṛndāvana, the famed Kṛṣṇa spot, they are on a building spree. Already rupees twelve lakhs have been spent on an unfinished temple."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is bogus.

Prabhupāda: Let them say unfinished. When it was finished it was more than twenty lakhs . . . fifty lakhs. And the temple was opened by the governor of U.P.

Pradyumna: We have mentioned that.

Gargamuni: And enclose his two letters. He wrote very nice letters. Very beautiful letters.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Gargamuni: He wishes us all success, and he begs for your blessings. He begs for your blessings.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this letter should be . . . they should immediately be brought into court and charged the damage for fifty thousand dollars.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay.

Pradyumna: And this is completely nonsense, "Their major concentration seems, however, to be in Orissa"—we don't have anything in Orissa—"the land of princes and paupers. They have built a center close to our atomic energy commission complex."

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: A hut center.

Jayapatākā: Gaura-Govinda, he has a few huts. "Major complex."

Pradyumna: "Besides, they are planning to set up a Sanskrit university in Purī, the home of famed temples and one of the few spots in India blessed by Ādi Śaṅkara. Two devotees, Gurudāsa Swami and Abhirāma dāsa, visited Bhubaneswar in April last to explore means to set up the university." Then in big heading, "Patnaik's interest in Kṛṣṇa cult."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is going to get us . . .

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Pradyumna: "They reportedly met also our Deputy Defense Minister, J. B. Patnaik, who hails from Orissa. It is understood that Patnaik has asked the District Magistrate of Purī to find land for ISKCON's Sanskrit university there. ISKCON is pursuing not only Kṛṣṇa; it has started taking interest in politics also. It has founded a political party in the United States called "In God We Trust" Party. It has already contested civic elections in Los Angeles and intends to put up candidates for the U.S. Congress." We didn't do anything in Los Angeles. Only in Georgia. All wrong, complete . . .

Prabhupāda: What is wrong there? "In God We Trust," this party. Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They are making it sound as if it is a political party.

Hari-śauri: They say it's political with God's name.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They're not saying God at all. They're saying God . . . we're using God as a front.

Prabhupāda: They may say. But we want to put forward a God's party also. Why not? Everyone is godless party. We must push forward a God's party. What is the wrong there?

Hari-śauri: It's not political.

Prabhupāda: Our whole movement is to educate this atheistic godless civilization to God consciousness. That is our movement. So if we set up a party, In God We Trust, what is the wrong there?

Gargamuni: In the same newspaper they print naked women. So we have God conscious party to stop this.

Prabhupāda: To stop illicit sex.

Gargamuni: Yes.

Prabhupāda: We are trying to elevate the demoralized human society to God consciousness.

Pradyumna: Then, "John Erdman, a U.S. citizen who sails under the label of Jayapak Swami and is in charge of the flourishing Māyāpur complex of the Society, recently had discussions with his chums to set up an In God We Trust Party in India also." Then heading: "Bigger Than Defunct British Empire." "In a recent communication with Gargamuni Swami, alias Gregory M. Scharf, who looks after West Bengal, the chief from headquarters says: 'Now we have become more than the British Empire.' "

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is your quote.

Prabhupāda: And what is British Empire? British Empire could not occupy the whole world. We are occupying the whole world.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But what they've done is they opened a newsletter which Rāmeśvara Swami sent. And it must have been addressed to Gargamuni Swami. They must have stolen it from the postman by giving him two rupees.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. We are trying to expand our empire, and it is already done all over the world.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay.

Pradyumna: " 'Now we've become more than the British Empire. Even the British Empire was not as expansive as we are. They had only a portion of the world, and we have not completed expanding. We must expand more and more, unlimitedly.' "

Prabhupāda: You also explain that British Empire expanded by military strength. And we are expanding by Ratha-yātrā. We are expanding our empire simply by Ratha-yātrā.

Hari-śauri: East meets West.

Pradyumna: Singing, dancing and chanting.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We introduce three chariots in big, big cities, and conquered them.

Hari-śauri: "Rival to Nelson's Column."

Gargamuni: We are marching through the streets not with guns.

Prabhupāda: They admitted, "Rival to Nelson Column" in Guardian even. So who is strong enough? We are stronger than British Empire. Simply by Ratha-yātrā we are conquering. And actually that is being done. What I have got strength? Forty rupees beginning. Simply Hare Kṛṣṇa and Ratha-yātrā, that's all. That's a fact. They can see. They have got eyes.

Pradyumna: "The Indian government has been rather slow in picking up the ISKCON signals. One reason being that the genuine Kṛṣṇa devotees in the administration had been mighty pleased in the beginning with the idea of exporting Kṛṣṇa consciousness to America."

Prabhupāda: Genuine?

Hari-śauri: That means the genuine ones are here in India, and they were pleased with the idea of exporting Kṛṣṇa to America. So that means that the ones in America are not genuine.

Prabhupāda: So "You are not genuine. Therefore we are not appreciating." Genuine they appreciate. "But you are not genuine. Therefore we are criticizing you."

Pradyumna: "As far back as 1971 the Maharashtra government had taken action against the foreign devotees who had chosen to overstay in Bombay and elsewhere."

Gargamuni: That isn't true. Their action was to allow us to build our Bombay center.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's not true.

Pradyumna: "In mid 1975 the Union Home Ministry took, however, a lenient view and allowed the immigrants to stay for long periods on the specious plea that the mastering of Vaiṣṇava literature, the spiritual diet of the cultists, was not like learning shorthand." Then heading: "Contrary Pulls in Government." "Lately, of course, the center has become wise, though contrary pulls in the thinking process still persist. This was quite evident from the Raj . . ."

Prabhupāda: This article no sane man will take notice of it. No sane man will like. It is not very important article.

Hari-śauri: Trouble is, we're in a land of insane people.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the largest circulating newspaper in India.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. So bring him into court. But what will be your charges?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, slander. It was trying to slander our character, our whole movement.

Gargamuni: Defamation of our religious cult. Because we're recognized by scholars as being bona fide. It says here, "Ungodly face of Kṛṣṇa cult." How is that ungodly?

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the charge. They are trying to minimize our . . .

Gargamuni: We are godly.

Pradyumna: Defamation.

Gargamuni: There are so many quotes from big scholars.

Hari-śauri: Just at the end this article gets worse.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that very heading is a defamation.

Gargamuni: "We challenge you that you are ungodly. But we are godly because we follow the four principles." This man drinks. It shows a photo of him drinking.

Prabhupāda: "Ungodly face of Kṛṣṇa cult." This is the charge. This very heading is a defamation.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And also the information that he has put to substantiate that is bogus. And we'll prove point by point how it is bogus.

Prabhupāda: We should charge them "Ungodly." "Ungodly face." This should be charged.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And also that these charges . . .

Prabhupāda: Others are subordinate. This is the main charge. We are spreading Kṛṣṇa, God, and he's "Ungodly face." Minimizing the value of the movement.

Gargamuni: Defamation of character.

Prabhupāda: So immediately you send letter to Asnani.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I will write him right now.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, I will . . . no more.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Give it to me now. But Girirāja told me there was some . . . he doesn't want to hear anymore.

Hari-śauri: Oh. You don't want to . . . there's only just a last little bit.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But now they have requoted what was in the paper about what you know already, that thing that came up in the Parliament.

Prabhupāda: So you quote from all these quotations. Ananda Bazar and others. You give quotations. They may make a fresh pages, so when court case is there this should be presented.

Gargamuni: Yes. Newspaper articles can stand as evidence because the Ananda Bazar, they sent a whole team there, and the article they wrote was fantastic.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You have to give me all of them.

Gargamuni: They're here on Prabhupāda's desk.

Hari-śauri: No, Harikeśa has got them.

Prabhupāda: So go and pick up and make arrangement immediately, show them. (to Pradyumna) One thing, that we have got this śālagrāma-śilā. So if you like to personally worship, we can keep it. Otherwise I am sending to Bombay. Do you like to worship?

Pradyumna: We can take with us? Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That is good to take with you.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pradyumna: We can make small thing like you used to have, small Deities? We can do that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Make a small box.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Here there are carpenters. We can get it made before you leave.

Prabhupāda: So we can carry, and every morning just put in a siṁhāsana and tulasī and water and flower and little fruit. That's all. He has got tendency to worship.

Gargamuni: He is brāhmaṇa. Paṇḍita.

Prabhupāda: Paṇḍitjī.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He and Nitāi are both considered the paṇḍitjīs.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are paṇḍita.

Gargamuni: He is training his son also.

Prabhupāda: Yes, his son will be great paṇḍita. Both of them are devotees, husband and wife. Therefore nice son is born. Yathā bījaṁ yathā yoni. Yathā bījaṁ yathā yoni. Yoni is the mother; bījam is the father. Yathā bījaṁ yathā yoni. So I'll not send it to Bombay.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Okay. Good. That's better to . . .

Prabhupāda: My father used to carry śālagrāma-śilā if he was going out in the . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In the neck?

Prabhupāda: His Guru Mahārāja advised him.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's auspicious.

Prabhupāda: No, it is the safest place. In a linen handkerchief, bound up. Yes. So it is safe always, kaṇṭha. My father used to carry. Wherever he would stay, gaṅga-jala, tulasī, decoration. So half an hour business. My father was a great devotee. Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You dedicated the Kṛṣṇa Book to him.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because he was a pure Vaiṣṇava. And he wanted me to become like this. He was praying Rādhārāṇī. He was praying to Rādhārāṇī. And any saintly person would come, he would simply say: "Give blessings to my son that he may become a Rādhārāṇī's servant." That was my father's prayer. He never prayed that, "My son may become very rich man." He never prayed like that. Actually, his ardent desire that his son may become a Vaiṣṇava. And my Guru Mahārāja's training has put me this position. That I have admitted, later on. What is that word I have given? Hmm? Find out.

Gargamuni: "The eternal father"?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "Which was later on solidified . . ."

Prabhupāda: Ahh!

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: ". . . by my eternal father."

Prabhupāda: "The ideas given by my father were solidified by . . ."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what you said.

Prabhupāda: Read it.

Gargamuni: "To my father, Gour Mohan De, 1849–1930, pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa, who raised me as a Kṛṣṇa conscious child from the beginning of my life. In my boyhood ages he instructed me how to play the mṛdaṅga. He gave me Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa vigraha to worship, and he gave me Jagannātha ratha to duly observe the festival as my childhood play. He was kind to me, and I imbibed from him the ideas later on solidified by my spiritual master, the eternal father."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Very beautifully written.

Gargamuni: Yes, very poetic.

Prabhupāda: That is a fact. I got good father and good spiritual master. That's all.

Gargamuni: We have gotten bad father, but now we have spiritual father.

Prabhupāda: No bad father. Unless good father, son cannot be good. Yathā yoni yathā bījam.

Hari-śauri: They must be just fallen.

Gargamuni: They have not accepted your mercy.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll all benefit by the son's devotional service. It doesn't matter how fallen they are, you know.

Prabhupāda: My father never chastised me. Hmm.

Hari-śauri: But I think you said your mother was always very strict.

Prabhupāda: Because he was very lenient. So mother had to be little strict for my education. So prepare a case for these rascals. We have got strong case. And charge, "Why you have made 'ungodly'? Prove it. What do you know about godly?" Charge them. So there will be discussion, long discussion, what is godly and what is not godly. Put them in the corner, "What do you know, rascal, about godly tradition? You have charged us 'ungodly.' "

Gargamuni: He's a drunkard, that man. That editor, he drinks.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's a Parsi.

Prabhupāda: Charge in the court, "What do you know about godly that you have charged us ungodly?" Then it will be exposed. Do. Immediately do. Immediately plan to bring in the court.

Hari-śauri: Actually, in the same newspaper they were doing a whole thing about Sai Baba. They had a big article about Sai Baba.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They're supporting him.

Hari-śauri: Supporting him.

Prabhupāda: Which newspaper? This?

Hari-śauri: Yes, this paper.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Sai Baba has a very big political following, including the Chief Minister of Bombay also.

Gargamuni: Home Ministers. Home Ministers wear his ring, Sai Baba ring.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So I think they're doing it just . . .

Prabhupāda: We don't touch about Sai Baba. We charge him, "What do you know about godly?" Don't bring any other men. Don't try to become that, "All are useless, we are important." No. But whatever they are there. But they have directed "Ungodly." "What do you know about godly, that you have said as ungodly?" Let him explain. And we are background Bhagavad-gītā, approved. So why you are taking my pen?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, I'm sorry.

Prabhupāda: This is the, our member. Pencil and pen. Either he'll leave his own pencil or take my pencil. (laughter)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) Your pencil.

Prabhupāda: That I am observing. All right. Go. So you'll take charge of this?

Pradyumna: Yes, I will come get it later. I'll get some silk.

Prabhupāda: And purchase one siṁhāsana, small. You know small siṁhāsana?

Pradyumna: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And some fine cloth. And you can decorate with this gopī-candana. That's all. And make a small linen as dhotī and cādara, and flower and tulasī. That's all. And you have got that pot, water, pañca-pātra. Bās. That's all. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalam. We have got the picture of Advaita Prabhu offering. The same thing here. Where is that picture?

Pradyumna: That is in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Must be Ādi-līlā. Hari-śauri: Where did He come from, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Pradyumna: Sampat Bhaṭṭācārya.

Hari-śauri: Oh, the South Indian paṇḍita.

Prabhupāda: They are pleased with us. Otherwise, he would not have given.

Pradyumna: Their culture is dying in India. No one wants paṇḍitas anymore. But we are the only ones who are encouraging.

Prabhupāda: You must encourage.

Pradyumna: Other . . . all young men . . . paṇḍitas. That book isn't here.

Prabhupāda: Teachings of Lord Caitanya?

Pradyumna: Oh, maybe. (looks in book) No. It must be in Ādi-līlā, first volume.

Prabhupāda: Ādi-līlā is not here?

Pradyumna: They took first volume. They don't have all the books here.

Prabhupāda: No. They should be charged, "Why you have said 'Ungodly face'? What do you know about God?"

Pradyumna: The courts can take it up also. In Allahabad when they were doing about the Congress Party having the cow, they said this is of the nature . . . they were discussing what is God in the court to make a decision. Something, what is God, what is religion. We can bring it up in the court. That will make a cause celebre. Cause celebre, they call it, affaire celebre.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This case must be brought. Challenge them, "What do you know about God? Explain." And we can prove God consciousness from every page of our books. That will be very interesting case. And we shall continue this unless this man is sufficiently fined.

Hari-śauri: This is a . . . that bit about . . . some of it, there's the front page also. Thought you might like to read.

Prabhupāda: "Evidence of fraud"? No?

Hari-śauri: That's Sai Baba.

Pradyumna: One man is trying to prove Sai Baba is fraud. One professor.

Hari-śauri: He's a scientist. He says he can prove that Sai Baba's making things appear and disappear is just a trick.

Prabhupāda: He is a fraud. What is this paper?

Hari-śauri: This is the same issue.

Pradyumna: But there's something very interesting. When he manifests something, he gives evidence, he says: "This cannot be a creation, because to be a creation, to be God you must be creator. To be creator you must produce something which is uniquely not made by anyone else." So he said he's only making things that are already created by someone else—a watch. So he is . . .

Hari-śauri: He's producing a watch, then it's a watch that's made by some manufacturer. It's not made by Sai Baba. Like that. So there was a comment that even if he has some . . . he may have some supernatural power, but he's not God.

Pradyumna: He has some yogic siddhi, but not some . . . any . . . he cannot be God because he does not create.

Prabhupāda: So this paper is against Sai Baba also?

Pradyumna: No. On the front page it says . . . because he is doing a lot of educational . . . he has made all these universities and health centers and everything. So it says he is doing good to the people. So for that reason they said: "We don't want to see him criticized."

Hari-śauri: They're supporting him.

Prabhupāda: So the case is already in the court?

Pradyumna: No, it is just a challenge.

Hari-śauri: Just a public challenge.

Pradyumna: The Bangalore University, some people in Bangalore University, want to investigate his things. And then Sai Baba sometimes, he won't submit to be examined.

Prabhupāda: He submits?

Pradyumna: He won't submit to be examined. They want to have him come and examine him, that, "Do it and let us see." But he won't admit to be examined.

Prabhupāda: That is his . . .

Hari-śauri: Some U.S. men, though, they gave a report that whilst they were talking to him he made different things appear and disappear. They wanted to examine him, and he wouldn't allow it. But during the course of the conversation he made several things appear and disappear. Like he produced this type of nut that comes from Nepal. It just appeared in his hand. And then he closed his hands and then he opened them up again, and the nut, the same nut was there. But this time with some gold, a gold cross hanging from it.

Pradyumna: A rudrākṣa. Some rare kind of rudrākṣa. Then made it appear again with all gold, and then he gave it to the man.

Hari-śauri: And then he produced gold ring and stuff like this.

Prabhupāda: This is magic.

Hari-śauri: Still, even if he can do those things, it's only mystic siddhi. That doesn't mean to say he's God or an avatāra or anything. But these people are so foolish they think anybody with a little magic, he must be avatāra.

Pradyumna: They worship him as God. "Bhagavān Sai Baba."

Prabhupāda: Anyway, we must bring this man charges. "Ungodly face."

Hari-śauri: Just like it says in the Bhagavad-gītā, they think religion is irreligion . . .

Prabhupāda: "Ungodly face," what is that?

Pradyumna: "The ungodly face of Kṛṣṇa cult."

Prabhupāda: What is that ungodly face?

Hari-śauri: They're trying to make out we're political, that we're a political organization.

Pradyumna: That we . . .

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) . . . politician?

Pradyumna: He said he has "Now unmasked the ungodly face of Kṛṣṇa cult." That we're putting on a false face of being devotees of Kṛṣṇa, but actually we have an ungodly purpose. That we want to . . .

Prabhupāda: What ungodly we have done?

Pradyumna: That he does not come out and say, but he implies that we are foreign, that we want to exploit India somehow.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, they are feeling the weight. Now they are feeling the weight. That is the progress. Otherwise, if our movement would have been a trifle thing, the government and newspapers, they would not have taken care. Now they are feeling that this movement is going to be more and more important, all over the world.

Hari-śauri: They can see we're having an effect.

Pradyumna: The more we go with these traveling parties also, from town to town.

Hari-śauri: Most of the general population, they're already convinced.

Prabhupāda: First thing is that when you take śālagrāma-sevā, wherever you stay, this worship must go on daily.

Pradyumna: Yes, nitya-pūjā, nitya-sevā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That you cannot . . . one day if you are sick, your wife will do that. But that half an hour pūjā must continue. That you must decide.

Pradyumna: Yes. Yes. I saw those brāhmaṇas in Udupi, they will never fail to do it, under any condition. They have little box with śālagrāma, little śaṅkha, little thing, little tulasī leaf they get. They will do that every day, daily. They cannot . . .

Prabhupāda: So both of you are initiated. In case you are little sick, your wife will do. In that platform you have to do it. Sevā shall not be stopped. Gradually, as your son grows, he will also do it. So you can purchase one little siṁhāsana.

Pradyumna: Yes. I will get today.

Prabhupāda: That is available in any utensil shop. All right.

Pradyumna: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)