760824 - Conversation B - Hyderabad

Conversations by Date, 1976

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

760824R2-HYDERABAD - August 24, 1976 - 45:36 Minutes

Indian man: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: I have got a sister. She is three years younger than me. So sometimes I chastise her like anything, because we have the same feeling. She is younger. Seventy-seven years, younger sister. But the feeling is there, younger. You know I sometimes chastise her.

Indian man: Here the feeling is about . . . we can do more work. It doesn't depend upon the age. In spite of this age we can do as much work as you want. This is what I wanted to emphasize here.

Prabhupāda: Because the soul is not dependent on the body. Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. If the soul has got energy, he doesn't care for the body.

Indian man: I have talked with some brāhmins here about the work that is being done here. They say: "We can't do this type of work. We can do pūjā, sandhyā. We can do kīrtana for some time during the day, but not the whole day. Not whole day. Because we have to feed ourselves also and run from place to place. These days people are not giving us as much charity as they should."

Prabhupāda: They can live here and . . .

Indian man: So that is what our people . . .

Prabhupāda: They can eat here. There is no insufficiency. Simply come and manage and eat, as many men as you come here. We shall bring everything. There is no scarcity of food here. Everyone is welcome to engage his full time for Kṛṣṇa's service. I am begging from the whole world, so there will be no scarcity. If somebody refuses, other will . . . (indistinct) . . . my field is the whole world, and I am a professional beggar. That's all.

Indian man: One feeling I have I must express before you, otherwise whom can I express those feelings? The books are very costly. They are very good, but very costly.

Harikeśa: What's that?

Indian man: Books. They are very costly for Indians who are very poor.

Prabhupāda: When you are here, you can read all the books.

Indian man: I personally can do this, sir, by coming here. But people would like to purchase these books, but they are very costly. If they can be printed in India, or . . .

Harikeśa: We're working on printing them in cheaper editions in India.

Indian man: That would be wonderful.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are trying for that.

Vāsughoṣa: Already this Bhāgavatam, First Volume, has been printed in Delhi. It's about three times less cost.

Prabhupāda: So you are not getting that book?

Vāsughoṣa: No, in Hyderabad we haven't gotten that yet.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Vāsughoṣa: I don't know. I'm not in a management position. Mahāṁsa Mahārāja is ordering.

Prabhupāda: Get this cheap edition. You can order cheap edition. (break)

(paṇḍita chants Śrī Īśopaniṣad and Gāyatrī. Prabhupāda speaks in Hindi, quoting Sanskrit ślokas.) (break)

Prabhupāda: Krishna kehte hai ki ye jeev jo hai (BG verse) jeevatma . . . (indistinct) . . . bhagvan sanatan jeev sanatan. (BG verses) jeev bhi nitya hai aur bhagvan bhi nitya hai, bhagvan praman nitya, 'nityo nityanam chetanas chetananam" bhagvan chetan vastu hain aur jeev bhi chetan vastu hai. Jeev ka bhi aakar hai aur bhagvan ka bhi aakar hai. nirakar, bhagvan ka jo sharir bhautik nahi hai bhautik aakar nahi, jeev ko vriddha avasta mei bhautik aakar milta hai. To ved ka jo upadesh hai ye bhautik aakar chod kar ke jo chetan aakar hai usme jana hai uska naam hai mukti (verse), ye mukti hai. Abhi jo hai ye sab nahi hai, ye sab aapko chodna padega (verse). Ek sharir chod deta hoon, phir ek sharir humko lena padta hai (verse). Ye avastha me hum log hain. Isiliye bhagvan ka jo mission hai (verse). Jab jeevatma ye bhautik sharir se aakrisht ho jata hai. Jab tak ye sharir aakrisht rahega usme ye bhautik sharir band karna padega (verse), sharir aakrisht hone mane 'Karamanu bandha'. Jo mehnat karke, rupaya paise kama karke, idhar sukhi hone ke liye. iska naam hai 'Karamanu bandha' tab tak sharir lena padega. Isiliye Bhagvat me bataya hai (verse). Ye sab pagal ho karke vikarma karte hain. Paap-punya ka vichar nahi karte hain, lao rupaya le aao kahin se, usme andh hokarke, pagal hokarke, lao rupaya lao kyon (verse) kewal indra sukh ke liye, aur koi interest nahi hai. usi tarah se ek prakar ke nastik ka baat jaise Charvak muni kehte hain (verse) khub mazaa karo, paisa to hai nahi, doosre se udhar lo aur maza karo kal usko udhar dena padega, are kal kaun dekha hai (verse). Ye sab abhi chal raha hai. To paap-punya ka koi vichar nahi hai. Isi tarah se english me bolta hai beg, borrow, steal, ek to bheek maang ke le aao, nahi to udhar lo nahi chori karo. (Kṛṣṇa says that this living entity, the soul, God is eternal and the living entity is eternal. The living entity is also absolute and God is also absolute—God is evidently absolute, nityo nityanam cetanas ceteanam. God is a sentient being and living entities are also sentient beings. Living entities also have form and God also has form, formless God does not have material form and material body. The living entity gets a material form in old age. So the advice of the vedas is to give up this material form and enter into the absolute form and this is called mukti or liberation, this is liberation. Now what is there is temporary, you will have to give up all this. One body I give up and again I take up another body. We are in this situation. So the mission of God—the living entity gets attracted to the material form. As long as the body is attracted to the material form then we are encaged in this material body. The attraction to the material body is called karmanu bandha. For working hard, earning money and living happily in this material world is called karmanu bandha, until then we have to come into the material body. That is why in the Bhāgavatam it is said (verse). All these people become mad and do vikarma. They don't think about piety and sin. Somehow get money by hook or crook and for what, just for sense gratification, they have no other interest. Similarly about the atheists that Charvaka Muni is telling: enjoy nicely but there is no money so borrow from someone and when the day of returning comes, but who has seen another day. All this is going on now. So they don't think about piety or sin. There is a phrase in English "beg, borrow or steal." Either beg, or borrow from someone, or steal.)

Lao rupaya; rasta hai. jo rupaya sadhu marg se kama nahi sakta uske liye teen rasta hai. doosre ko cheat karo ki bhai abhi humko do 500 rupaya hum temko kal de deenge aur deta nahin. To ye jo sab vichar hai shastra batate hain ye pagal karta hai (verse). Ye sab nahin karna chahiye. karmanu bandha (verse) kewal indriya sukh ke liye, to indriya sukh to suar aur kukkar ko bhi milta hai. Isliye shastra mana kiya hai ki ye jo manushya jeevan hai ye suar, kukkar ke jaise indriya tript karne ke liye nahin (verse). "Vibhujan" ye stool khane wala suar hota hai wo bhi din bhar parishram karke bas khub khaya aur thoda mota-taaza ho gaya to indriya tarpan, usme ma, bahin koi parvah nahi hai bus mazaa, ye suar ka kaam hai. kewal indriya tarpan, isliye shastra me kaha hai (verse). Ye jo sharir hai wo kutta ko bhi mila hai aur gadha ko bhi mila hai aur suar ko bhi mila hai, sabhi ko milta hai ye bhautik sharir. jeevatma jab tak bhautik jagat me bhog karne ko chahte hain uske karm ke anusar koi-na-koi sharir milta hai. (Get money, there is a way—the money which you cannot get through fair means—for him there are three ways, cheat someone saying that you lend me 500 rupees I will return it tomorrow but don't give it. So all these thoughts, the scriptures say, will make you mad (verse). One should not do all these things. Only for sense gratification. So sense gratification even the hogs and dogs are doing. So the scriptures say that this form of human life is not merely for sense gratification like pigs and dogs. The pig enjoys eating stool and the whole day he will work hard and fill its belly and become fat and healthy and indulge in sex. He does not even consider mother, sister—only gratify the senses. This is hog's business only sense gratification. That is why in the scriptures it is said (verse) this body even the dogs, hogs and the asses have got—everyone gets. As long as the living entity wants to enjoy in this material world, he gets some body according to his activities of previous life.)

Aur kisi bhi sharir me usko bhog ka vyavasta hota hai (verse) vishay kshubdh hai khana, sona, stree sambandh karna aur apne ko bachane ke liye kuch bandobast karna, ye suar ko bhi milta hai, kutta ko bhi milta hai, aadmi ko bhi milta hai, pakshi ko bhi milta hai, apna-apna karm ke anusar. To isliye manushya ka ye kaam hai indriya tript karne ke liye kahin se bhi sadhan le aao aur mazaa karo. Ye uchit nahi. To manushya ke liye kya uchit hai 'tapo divyam' tapasya karna. Tapasya kyon kare, mazaa kare (verse) tapasya karne se tumhara jo ye satta hai, bhautik satta ye shuddh ho jayega. Ye shuddh karne se tumko anand aisa milega jo kabhi khatm nahi hoga. Anand ke peeche humlog ghoomta-phirta hai, to ye jo duniya ka anand hai shanik wo khatam ho jayega. Baki aap agar tapasya karenge to jo chinmay sharir jo hai usko aap prapt karenge. Wo sharir hai aapke paas lekin upar se dhak gaya hai jaise sharir kurta se dhak jata hai (verse), Kurta jab phat jata hai usko chod dete hain phir aur kurta pehan lete hain. Usi prakar sabka humlog ka chinmay sharir hai. Wo chinmay sharir abhi bhautik aavaran se dhaka hua hai. Ye bhautik aavaran chodkarke jab chinmay sharir prapt karenge to jaise humlog aamne-saamne baat-cheet kar rahe hain waise bhagvan se bhi baat-cheet kar sakenge, mil sakenge (verse). Ye jab bhagvan balak log se khel raha that us samay Sukhdev Goswami ne (verse) ye jo balak bhagvan ke saath khel rahe he ye sadharan nahi hai, ye to janm-janmantar se punya sanchay karke unko chinmay sharir mila hai, iske waja se ye bhagvan ke saath khel rahe hain. Ye sambhav hai. (In any body there is an arrangement for sense gratification (verse). Matter is agitated—to eat, sleep, have sex and to make arrangements for defending oneself. This facility even the hog, dog, birds, humans get according to their deeds. So the human activity is to make arrangements for sense gratification and enjoy life. But this is not appropriate for humans. What is appropriate for living entities? To perform austerities. Why to perform austerity? Let's enjoy it. By performing austerity, this material existence of yours gets purified. By purifying your existence you will obtain such bliss which is permanent, never ending. We roam in this world in search of happiness, so this momentary happiness will end. And if you do austerity, then you will get a spiritual body. You have this body but it is covered, just like how we cover our body with a dress (verse). When the dress is torn then we discard it and wear a new dress. Similarly, we all have a spiritual body but now it is covered with material desires. So when this material covering is removed and we get the spiritual body, then how we are talking face to face you will be able to talk with God face to face—meet him (verse). When God was playing with his friends Sukadeva Goswami (verse), these boys who were playing with God were not ordinary boys but from previous lives they collected pious deeds and had got the spiritual bodies—because of this they were able to play with God. This is possible.)

Wo chinmay sharir milne se, jaisa humlog bat-cheet karte hain, khelte hain, uthte-baithte hain, khate-peete hain, nachte hain, to ye sambhav hai. Ye log samjhte nahi, wo bhagvan ko nirakar kehte hain, kaam khatam karo, bus. Nahi ye bat nahin hai. Isiliye bhagvan aate hain, ras-leela kar ke dikhate hain ki tum bhi hamare saat aisa khel sakte ho, nach sakte ho, bhojan kar sakte ho, sab kuch kar sakte ho. Iska naam hai Sanatan Dharm. Jab bhagvan ke saat jakarke kelenge-kudenge aur wo sharir kabhi nasht nahi hoga uska naam hai Sanatan Dharm. (When we get that spiritual body, then how we talk, we play, sit together, have food together, dance together—so this is possible. These people do not understand, they think that God is formless—matter is over, that's all. No this is not the truth. God comes personally, He performs rasa lila and shows us that you also can play with Me, have food with Me, dance with Me, you can do everything. This is called sanatana-dharma. When we go and play with God and that body never gets destroyed, that is sanatana-dharma.)

To jeevatma sanatan hai aur bhagvan sanatan hai. Bhagavad-Gita me likha hai, aur Arjun bhagvan ko bataye "Sanatanastham", to bhagvan sanatan hain. Aur ek sanatan dham hai (verse). Aur ek prithvi hai, wo sanatan hai jisko kaha jata hai Vaikuntha jagah, yahan koi kuntha nahi hai. Idhar sab kuntha hai. Chahe jitna mazaa kijiye, kuntha hai. Sab samay ek udveg rehta hai phir kya hoga. Vyakti chahe jitna dhani ho wo udveg jaroor rahega. kyo udveg hai (verse). Ye asat vastu jo grahan kiya hai isliye usko udveg rehta hai (verse). Isiliye ved me kehte hain (verse). Asat vastu me raho nahi uska naam hai mukti. Ye asat vastu me rehne se hamara udveg aur . . . yantrana ye chalo rahega. Isiliye shastra me kehte hain (verse). Aisi kaam nahi karni chahiye jo phir humko bhautik sharir dharan karna pade. (So the living entity is eternal and God is eternal. In Bhagavad-gītā it is mentioned, and Arjuna described God as sanatanastham, so God is eternal. There is one more eternal abode (verse). One more planet is there, it is eternal and it is called the Vaikuntha planet. There are no worries, miseries. Here it is all kuntha. You may enjoy however you want, misery is there. All the time there is constant fear that what will happen next. How much ever a person is wealthy the fear factor is always there (verse). Therefore in the vedas it is said (verse). Do not stay in falsehood, then it is liberation. Staying in this falsehood our fear and . . . will keep on functioning. That is why in the scriptures it is said (verse). Do not do such a deed that will make us take a material body again.)

Kyonki yadyapi ye sharir thode din ke liye hai, ye jo hamara sharir hai zyada se zyada 100 years, wo bhi bada mushkil se. Abhi hamara umar ho gaya 81 aur samajh lijiye 2-5 baras aur, samajh lijiye 100 varsh, to unnis varsh reh gaya. 81 varsh mrtyu ho chuka hai aur 19 varsh marne ke liye tayyar hona hai, bus. To ye sharir humko prapt karna padega jab tak hum bhautik sukh ke liye main lalayit hoon (verse). Aur jahan humko bhautik sharir dharan karna pada, bus dukh bhogna padega. matri garbh se shuru karke mrtyu tak. Phir maro phir matri garbh me jao, chahe maushya garbh me jao, raja garbh me jao, devta garbh me jao, wo garbh yatana jo hai bhogana padega. Phir nikalkarke yatana shuru ho jayega. Isiliye shastra me kehte hain (verse), ye sadhu ka kaam nahi hai. Phir kya karna chahiye. Tapasya karna chahiye (verse). Wo divya bhagvan bataya hai Bhagavad-gita me (verse). Ye bhagvan ka jo janm-karm hai wo sab divya hai. Aur wo divya vastu labh karne ke liye tapasya karna chahiye. (Although this body is for a few days, this body of ours is for a maximum of 100 years—that also with great difficulty. Now I am 81 years old and take into account another 2 to 5 years, say 100 years—so 19 years is left. I have been dead for 81 years and I must prepare another 19 years for my death, that's all. As long as I am eager for material sense gratification I have to take this body. (verse) And when I have to take on this material body, I will have to bear sufferings and miseries, from the mother's womb until death. Again die and enter another mother's womb, whether it is human, king or demigod, that suffering in the womb I have to bear. Again come out of the womb and the process of suffering starts. That is why it is said in the scriptures that (verse) this is not the work of a sadhu. Then what should we do? We must perform austerity (verse). That Supreme Lord has said in the Bhagavad-gītā. The birth and activities of the Lord are all transcendental. And to obtain the supreme mercy of the Lord we have to perform austerities. (verse))

Ye satvik gyan jiska hai ki bhagvan hamara jaisa nahi hai (verse) jo murkh hota hai wo bolte hain bhagvan ko samajhte hai hamara jaise hi hai aur jo kewal Krishna kya cheez hai, kyu bhagvan aate hain, kyu janm lete hain (verse). Ye sab vichar bhagvan khud bataye hain Bhagavad-Gita me. Ye sab samajh karke agar humlog jivan nibhayit karenge to phir wo (verse), phir ye sharir chod karke use bhautik sharir milega nahi (verse), wo sanatan dharm hai. Usko jo sanatan jivan hai usko mil jayega aur wohi mukti hai (verse) wo bhautik sharir se jo wo sab leela kar rahe hain ye sab band ho jayega aur bhagvan ke saat leela me pravesh hoga, nitya leela pravesh, iska naam hai sanatan dharm. To bhagvan sanatan, mai sanatan, to dono sanatan dharm me reh karke ek saat me uthna-baithna, khelna-koodna chalega, uska naam hai sanatan dharma. (This pure knowledge of God is not like us (verse). The rascal says that God is considered to be like us and those who dwell on who is Kṛṣṇa, why does God appear, why does He take birth? (verse) All these thoughts have been mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā. If we understand the supreme truth and live our lives accordingly then that (verse) he will not discard this body and get another material body (verse) this is sanatana-dharma. He will get eternal life and this is liberation. All the activities he is performing with this material body will come to an end and he will enter into the sweet pastimes of the Lord, entry into the eternal pastimes, this is called sanatana-dharma. So God is eternal, I am eternal, both together in His abode can sit together, play together, this is sanatana-dharma. Jaya. Thank you very much.

Priests: Swami Maharaj ki jai. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (All glories to the Swami Mahārāja. Hare Kṛṣṇa.)

Mahāṁsa: They will not part with even one thousand rupees. They're exactly what you described. And also these were the people who are with Śaṅkarācārya who came the first time when you had come here. They were with Śaṅkarācārya. And Hariprasad and some Marwaris were with our movement, and these people were on the other side. So there was some conflict at that time. And Śaṅkarācārya came and you . . .

Prabhupāda: Śaṅkarācārya, he says that you are Bhagavān.

Mahāṁsa: Yes. Also nirākāra. All these things they have been influenced. But the fact that now they are slowly coming to accept us. There is one Mr. Badanman who was the host of Śaṅkarācārya, and for two and a half years he never came here, he never entertained the devotees.

Prabhupāda: The Śaṅkarācārya was poison.

Mahāṁsa: Yes. But then since last six to seven months, he has been completely convinced about us, and he has been going around collecting money from other Marwaris for the temple construction. He was simply convinced by seeing the "Hare Kṛṣṇa" film. And by seeing the Deities he was so much taken aback, and he was so much wonderstruck with the Deities which he saw on the film.

Prabhupāda: You were also present then?

Mahāṁsa: Not here. Before, about six to seven months back. I had shown him the film privately in my room. That was the time when he was completely convinced about it, and he started collecting afterwards for us. Now all these people are coming. Because by heart they are all Vaiṣṇavas. All these Marwaris, their Deity is Kṛṣṇa. And there's not a single Kṛṣṇa temple in Hyderabad. So last few days . . .

Prabhupāda: Oh, there is no Kṛṣṇa . . .

Mahāṁsa: There is no Kṛṣṇa temple, what to speak of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. And their Deity is Kṛṣṇa, most of the Marwaris. So they will now, slowly, all of them will come. We had a very hard time. This Inani who was wearing the turban. He's the chief of the Marwaris. If he gives five thousand rupees, then all the Marwaris will give five thousand rupees in that Ganj area. Whatever he gives, the others will have to.

Prabhupāda: He is the head.

Mahāṁsa: He's the head. He himself never gave. And we went a hundred times to him.

Prabhupāda: And now he saw the film . . .

Mahāṁsa: Yes. And today also he was there in the morning. Now he will definitely give. You had also previously said that they are very conservative. But once they take it up, then they will take it up very nicely.

Prabhupāda: And I also explained, "Nā rūpya, nā rūpya." (laughs)

Mahāṁsa: (laughs) Yes, that's exactly what they do.

Prabhupāda: Actually, that is the whole world going on. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Rūpya le aao kisi tarah se. (Just get money by some means.) Whole world.

Mahāṁsa: Beg, borrow, steal.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Beg, borrow, steal. Bring money and enjoy. They were selected Marwaris. This morning?

Mahāṁsa: Yes, these people are the head of the Marwari community. They don't know how to live. They live in these slums, which we saw today. They live all around that area. They are crore-patis. They have crores of rupees.

Prabhupāda: To live very gorgeously is not good.

Mahāṁsa: But even their houses are not so clean—shabby.

Prabhupāda: Even though they're not . . . you cannot say not . . . they are clean. I have seen in Bombay even the poorest man, his house, and a Parsi gentleman, his house. Kitchen habits. A Parsi's kitchen is so nasty. And here you see this poor man's house, they are neat. Their utensils, how much cleansed. I had been in Parsi kitchen. All the pots black. Nothing is cleansed. For eating they use this china. So clean or unclean cannot be understood. Simply washed. But so far the kitchen pots, all are . . . in our also, when it is handled by these (chuckles) European, American devotees, the black. Down, it is black. That should not be black. It must be cleansed.

Mahāṁsa: By the heat, if you use wood, it brings up a lot of soot.

Prabhupāda: But it must be cleansed daily.

Mahāṁsa: It should not come on your finger if you touch it, that black thing.

Prabhupāda: Not even you cannot see black, any black spot. Then it is clean. Otherwise not clean. If there's a single black spot, it is not clean. You can see from this poor class of men, how their utensils are cleansed. Before taking water the jug, the waterpot, you'll like to drink water from it. In our school days there were sweeper, they were a different quarter. So you like to sit down. So clean. The sweeper, cleansing the toilet, bhangi. But when you come to his house, living quarter, oh, it is so clean—the bed, the room, the utensils. And they also will take twice, thrice bath, then they will eat. That is the Hindu culture. Even the sweeper class, lowest class. And I have seen one sweeper class who were in Allahabad, regularly worshiping Deity. Very nice worship.

Mahāṁsa: So a Vaiṣṇava, then.

Prabhupāda: They take initiation from the Vṛndāvana Goswamis and they follow strictly rules and regulations. Cleanliness is very essential. In English also it is said cleanliness is next to godliness. Everything should be, especially temple. It will attract them. And we are singing daily, śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mārjanādau. Tat-mandira-mārjana. Mārjana means cleanliness. And want of cleanliness means laziness. If you are lazy you cannot keep clean. "Ah, let me sleep for the time being." That is mode of ignorance. Tamo-guṇa. So we have to conquer over rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ (SB 1.2.19). Then there is question of coming to the platform śuddha, sāttvika. Sattvaṁ viśuddhaṁ vasudeva-śabditam (SB 4.3.23). Where is this verse? In Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

Pradyumna: Sattvaṁ viśuddhaṁ vasudeva-śabditam.

Prabhupāda: Maybe Fourth Chapter, Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

Pradyumna: In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta is quoted? Ādi-līlā? (looks for book)

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Mahāṁsa: Shall I go and bring the agreement?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The Western world is very busy manufacturing this machine. And they are thinking this is advancement of civilization.

Hari-śauri: Technology.

Prabhupāda: That is not advancement.

Hari-śauri: They can't see any use for philosophy and fine arts any more.

Prabhupāda: Because they do not know what is soul.

Hari-śauri: They don't know what the point if it is.

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is missing, why the body is useless. They do not cultivate. The most important thing they do not cultivate. This man was so important one second before. Now the whole body is useless. It has to be thrown away. They do not give attention even to this, how he becomes . . . second before he was Mr. Churchill or Mr. Such and such, very important man, all men showing respect. And now he is useless. If somebody kicks on his face nobody will say. Out of sentiment they protest, but the man will not protest.

Hari-śauri: They stick him in the ground. (laughs) Put him in a box.

Prabhupāda: But why this happened, this "why" question does not come. They are so dull. What that thing missing? And these rascal scientists will theorize, "The blood becomes white, this becomes that, that becomes that." And do it. If the blood has become white, then make it red. Mix some color or chemical and bring him to life. "No, the life-giving substance is lost." Oh, life-giving substance is not lost. So many germs are coming. Why do you say the life-giving substance is lost? It is there. They do not consider all these things. If matter is life-giving substance, matter is there. Decomposed matter is also matter. Just like stool—a decomposed remnants of foodstuff. That is also matter. Stool is also matter. The same kṣitir . . . (indistinct) . . . bhum is there. The earth is there, the water is there, the heat is there. What is the loss there? And actually you see from this matter, from the stool so many worms are coming out. How do you say that the life-giving matter is missing? That you cannot explain. Still they will not accept that the soul is gone. That individual soul is gone. This is their intelligence. Hmm. Give me that stamp. Round stamp. So the post . . . (break) (end)