760907 - Conversation C - Vrndavana

Conversations by Date, 1976

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

760907G2-VRNDAVAN - September 07, 1976 - 43:46 Minutes

(Garden Conversation)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That Blitz article, I wrote a reply and sent it to Krishna Modi, the member of Parliament, and he's going to discuss it with the other members of Parliament. What I did . . .

Prabhupāda: But this article is in our favor.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no, the previous one.

Prabhupāda: So, but Mr. Modi said that we don't bother about this.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no, he will reply. So I gave him the point. He wanted me to give him the point and the right answers, and then he will reply.

Prabhupāda: What are the points?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I read the whole letter you? It's a four-page letter.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "Dear Shri Modiji. Hare Kṛṣṇa. In Blitz issue of August 21, 1976, an article under the heading of "Blitz Tears the Mask of Ungodly Face of Kṛṣṇa Cult" appeared. This article appeared on page 3 of the issue and was written by A. Ragwan of Blitz Delhi Bureau. We beg to state that this was a mischievous article in which the newspaper accused us incorrectly. It is our firm opinion that the purpose of this article was simply to defame ISKCON because it is engaged in spreading God consciousness based on the Vedic scriptures. For your information, ISKCON is a registered society with the government of India. This society . . ."

Prabhupāda: For your information we beg to submit.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No. For your information . . . before that I have said: "For your information ISKCON is a registered society with the government of India."

Prabhupāda: No, no, "for your infor . . ." It is not completed.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Pardon?

Prabhupāda: "For your information . . ." What is that?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, this is a sentence.

Prabhupāda: Okay.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "This society was formed strictly for the purpose of spreading God consciousness. We briefly submit below the misleading information as reported by Blitz and humbly inform you of the facts." What I've done is I've shown each point that Blitz has incorrectly said and then responded to it. Should I read?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. "Point one. Blitz: Ungodly Face of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. ISKCON . . ." So ISKCON is replying now. "The International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness is a worldwide community of devotees practicing the Vedic teachings, the eternal science of rendering devotional service to Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The Society was founded by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, a pure devotee of God, who is coming down in paramparā started by Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa five thousand years ago. In other words, the roots of this movement trace back to at least five thousand years. It is not a modern concoction. In India our Society is registered under the Society Registration Act No. 21 of 1860. As we are a registered nonprofit organization, we are required to maintain complete account of all donations received, both within India and from abroad, thus keep a complete account of all our expenses. Our accounts are audited every year and submitted to the income tax authorities and the Charity Commissioner. Very briefly, the main object of the Society, as registered with the government, is . . ." I've given them the three main points from your memorandum of the Association. "To advance, transmit and spread the ethical and philosophical principles of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, as revealed in the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and the doctrines and the observances which serve to promote and manifest the said ethical and philosophical principles in the furtherance of the subject. To build or to assist in building temples, schools, colleges, hospitals and other buildings in connection with or for the advancement of the objects of the Society and to maintain, alter and improve the same, including existing buildings, and to furnish and equip the same. To print, publish, sell or cause to be printed, published or sold, or to distribute books, booklets, leaflets, daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly or yearly newspapers, magazines or other periodicals for the purpose of giving information for the work of the Society. We refrain from four categories of sinful activities, such as meat-eating, intoxication, gambling and illicit sex life. Furthermore, our entire life is dedicated to reading, chanting and preaching about Kṛṣṇa. We rise at 4 a.m. all over the world. So how can Blitz say that we are ungodly when we are following Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa's teachings?" This is my reply to point one. It's okay?

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is nice. Very good.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. "Point two. Blitz: And now it's ISKCON-MRA-Anand Marg . . ." Just for your information, Prabhupāda, MRA and Anand Marg were banned organizations for murders . . .

Prabhupāda: MRA also?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it is banned now. So Blitz said, "And now it's ISKCON-MRA-Anand Marg." So ISKCON is replying. "ISKCON: Blitz is trying to link us with banned organizations like MRA and Anand Marg. We challenge Blitz to show any of our activities that is dangerous to the Indian society. Our only business is to follow Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is all we are asking others to do also. We're not engaged in any political activity either. So how can Blitz compare us to banned organizations like MRA and Anand Marg?" So this is my reply to point two. "Point three. Blitz: ISKCON was founded in New York in July, 1966. ISKCON: Yes, ISKCON was registered in New York by A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. Bhaktivedanta Swami went to America at the advanced age of 70 to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness because he was ordered so by his spiritual master, Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Prabhupāda, the founder-ācārya of Gauḍīya Maṭha institutions in India, to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness to the Western countries. Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Prabhupāda strongly desired that the whole world accept Lord Kṛṣṇa's teachings, and therefore he ordered his most educated and sincere disciple, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, in 1936 to spread these teachings to the Western world. Bhaktivedanta Swami started translating Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Caitanya-caritāmṛta and Bhagavad-gītā in 1936. When the late prime minister, Shri Lal Bahadur Shastri, saw Bhaktivedanta Swami's Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, he said, 'His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda is doing valuable work, and his books are a significant contribution to the salvation of mankind.' Presently, Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, a division of ISKCON, has published over sixty books of Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. These include Bhagavad-gītā; Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, twenty-five volumes; and Caitanya-caritāmṛta, seventeen volumes. These books have been acclaimed by both Indian and Western scholars. The books are being used by about three thousand universities all over the world, including Oxford, Cambridge and Harvard universities. In India, in the last four months, close to four hundred institutes have placed standing orders on Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda's books. Even Russian scholars . . ."

Prabhupāda: Calcutta University purchased.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I said four hundred universities. I didn't . . . "Even Russian scholars have praised Bhaktivedanta Swami's books and placed orders. For your information, Bhaktivedanta Book Trust is the leading seller of books of Vedic culture outside India."

Prabhupāda: Topmost publisher of religious and philosophical . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Topmost. Okay.

Prabhupāda: In the world. That is admitted.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. I didn't put . . . I said outside India because Gita Press . . . it becomes disputable in India. So this was my reply to point three. "Point four. Blitz: Most work in India is done by foreign devotees. ISKCON: The founder-ācārya of ISKCON is His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, who is an Indian. His chief secretary for India is also an Indian. In total, ISKCON has presently about 270 devotees in India, of which at least 150, or about 60%, are Indian. Our programs in India have been praised by all leaders. The chief minister of Andhra Pradesh, while inaugurating our Hyderabad center on August 18, 1976, said, 'History appeared to be repeating itself. One found a revival of temple construction, temple worship and Gītā-prayāna in advanced countries like USA.' "

Prabhupāda: Not Gītā-prayāna. Gītā-parāyaṇa.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Parāyaṇa. Okay. I just copied the spelling from the paper, but as . . . parāyaṇa. Okay, I'll change it.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is understood.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. "He complimented ISKCON for disseminating the Vedic culture. West Bengal government officials have praised our agricultural efforts. The principal officer of agriculture of Nadia District in West Bengal said that our Māyāpur farm is receiving attention of nearby farmers, and this farm is acting as a demonstration for them. So the statement that foreign devotees are running ISKCON in India is misleading. Point five, Blitz: Big business in Spiritual Sky. Boss of West Bengal is Gregory M. Scharf. ISKCON: In Māyāpur our devotees make handloom sārīs, dhotīs and gāmchās. All over the world our devotees wear the traditional Indian dress of dhotīs, kurtās and sārīs. It is our spiritual master's desire that all our devotees overseas only wear clothes made by our devotees in Māyāpur. Spiritual Sky sales and services was formed just to send our Māyāpur handloom and other necessities only to our centers overseas. In return, our overseas centers send Māyāpur donations. Even Gandhijī wanted every Indian to be self-sufficient. This is what we are trying to do. We produce our own food and clothing. Instead of criticizing, Blitz should publicize these activities so that others can follow. Gregory M. Scharf's spiritual name is Gargamuni Swami, and he is an initiated disciple of Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. Blitz has tried to portray him as a businessman who's wearing saffron clothes to deceive people.

He is a sannyāsī since 1966. Point six, Blitz: Substantial amounts of foreign money is being received by ISKCON India Limited. ISKCON: First of all, our society is registered and called ISKCON, not ISKCON India Limited." They are purposefully being sarcastic. "It is not a business house. Yes, we do receive remittances from abroad. Every paisa that has been remitted from abroad has come through the Reserve Bank of India. Bhaktivedanta Swami has written over eighty books, which are being sold in every country in the world. These books are selling . . . (indistinct) . . . sixty thousand dollars daily, which is about five lakhs. We have over a hundred centers all over the world, and all these centers are being run by book sales. In the last three years, Bhaktivedanta Book Trust has published over two million hardbound big books, about three and a half million softbound medium size books, and about fifteen million magazines on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So you can see the wide acceptance of these books. Out of the 2,800 major universities in America, about ninety percent have purchased one or more of His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda's books. Occasionally we receive contributions. This is not in cash but in kind. For example, Alfred Ford donated two buildings to our Society, one in Honolulu, Hawaii, and the other in Detroit, America. In London . . ."

Prabhupāda: (to child?) Thank you. You can go and play. You cannot understand.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Go and play. "In London, George Harrison donated a big castle which is now called Bhaktivedanta Manor. We have purchased many buildings and converted them to temples from the sale of our books. What is wrong if a portion of Bhaktivedanta Book Trust sales are transferred to India for construction of temples? Fifty percent of Bhaktivedanta Book Trust's income is spent for further publishing, and the other fifty percent is spent to build temples all over the world. In fact, Blitz should appreciate this, because Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda's books are bringing valuable overseas currency into the country without any cost to the Indian public. Point seven. Blitz: In Bombay they have put up a temple with a barbed fence around it. ISKCON: There is no barbed wire around the temple. We invite Blitz to show us the barbed wire." There's no barbed wire. "Point eight. Blitz: Already rupees twelve lakhs have been spent on an unfinished temple in Vṛndāvana. ISKCON: Blitz does not know that the Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma temple in Vṛndāvana was completed and officially inaugurated by Dr. Chenna Reddy, Governor of U.P., in April, 1975." They are saying the temple is still being made. "Point nine. Blitz: Their major center seems to be in Orissa, the land of princes and paupers. They have built a center close to an Atomic Energy Commission complex. ISKCON: How foolish. Our major center is not in Orissa, but in Śrīdhāma Māyāpur in West Bengal. Māyāpur is the birthplace of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, an incarnation of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa. We are coming in Lord Caitanya's disciplic succession, and therefore we want to develop Māyāpur and make this an international center. In Orissa, we do have two devotees living in three huts in Bhubaneswar. They are living on a piece of land that was donated by one of our Life Members from Calcutta. If at all it is near the Atomic Energy Commission, it is only by coincidence."

Prabhupāda: It was donated by the late governor and Central Minister, Nityananda Kanungo.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He donated it. Okay, I'll write down his name them. "Gaura-Govinda Swami, a 45-year-old retired teacher from Orissa, is in charge of our Bhubaneswar center." So they'll know. "Point ten . . ."

Prabhupāda: So that land was donated by a prominent man.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay, I'll write down the name.

Prabhupāda: Nityananda Kanungo was Central Government minister and later on Governor of Gujarat. And he often comes to see me in Calcutta.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. "Point ten. Blitz: It has started taking interest in politics. It has started a political party in USA called In God We Trust party. ISKCON: ISKCON is not involved in politics at all, anywhere in the world. Two American devotees did contest some civic elections for which a party called 'In God We Trust' was formed. The purpose of that campaign was to remind everyone to remember the Lord at all times, as everything belongs to God. Our spiritual master dissolved In God We Trust party in USA four years ago. Furthermore, there were never any plans to set up In God We Trust in India. We challenge Blitz to show us any evidence to support their claim. Point eleven. Blitz: As far back as 1971, the Maharashtra government has taken action against the foreign devotees who have chosen to overstay in Bombay and elsewhere. ISKCON: This statement is also incorrect. The Maharashtra government has never taken any action against our devotees. Point twelve. Blitz: The government has decided to stop specialized facilities rendered to foreign devotees seeking to popularize Kṛṣṇa in India. ISKCON: We are very grateful to the government of India for giving us facilities for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The government has not withdrawn any special facilities that have been given to us earlier. So I'm sure you can see by now the extent to which Blitz has misreported ISKCON activities in India. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that one day in every town and village of the world this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement would be spread. The Vedic culture is India's real heritage, and we want to popularize it in every corner of the world. Even in black Africa we have locals that have joined."

Prabhupāda: Every corner of the world for world peace.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, "For world peace." Do you have a pen? No.

Hari-śauri: You don't have any light.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I need my pen. It's missing. I found it.

Prabhupāda: Because this is the only platform for United Nation which is practically demonstrated.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "This is the only platform for . . ."

Prabhupāda: United Nation which is practically demonstrated.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: ". . . is practical . . ." (writing down)

Prabhupāda: Our movement, all over the world they have joined. Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist and Africans. All, everywhere.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "ISKCON has devotees in all parts of the world in all nationalities, including Muslims."

Prabhupāda: Samaḥ sarveṣu-bhūteṣu (BG 18.54).

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "Should the government need any further information, we will be more than happy and pleased to cooperate in all respects. With kindest regards, Yours sincerely, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa dāsa, Secretary, ISKCON India." It's okay?

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is nicely done.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So this is a point-by-point reply. So now no one can open their mouth.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. It is very intelligent. Daba diya hai aur fact bhi. (Not only dismissed them but presented the facts as well.)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And I thought we'd give both Blitz and ISKCON, so you can see right there.

Prabhupāda: So if Mr. Modi discusses this, it will be a great help.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Now the other book I want to write, it's facts about ISKCON, or what is ISKCON. We will call that booklet What is ISKCON? And then in a question and answer form, give all the answers. What is ISKCON, where does ISKCON get its income from, who are the people who run ISKCON—everything that they ask.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I think it came from Delhi from shopping.

Prabhupāda: They are shopping from Delhi?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He was supposed to go to Delhi, few items. They're better and cheaper sometimes. So now I'll work on the other booklet which the Defense Minister wanted, What is ISKCON? A small, like Kṛṣṇa Consciousness is Authorized, on that form, with some reviews.

Prabhupāda: You can start this fan. No, no. Yes.

Hari-śauri: This one?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We'll put in some reviews . . .

Prabhupāda: It is stopped.

Caraṇāravindam: The mains has been turned off, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There is no water coming from the mains.

Hari-śauri: They've turned the water off somewhere.

Prabhupāda: No, no, it is dropping.

Hari-śauri: No, it's raining.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Then we cannot sit. (break) . . . is going on. tup-tap tup-tap, brishti pore tupur-tupur, nodi elo bandh. (The small drops of rain are falling, now there will be a flood in the river.) This is our childhood song. Brishti pore tupur-tupur, nodi elo bandh. The small drops of rain falling, now there will be flood in the river. Brishti pore tapur-tupur, nodi elo bandh. Bulbuli te dhaan khelo . . . (The small drops of rain are falling, now there will be flooding in the river. Bulbul birds ate the paddy . . .) (break) We know even in October sometimes there are rains. Because the Durgā-Pūjā takes place in October. From our childhood we have experience. During Durgā-Pūjā there was raining, fog.

Hari-śauri: We haven't got rid of those monkeys.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They've gone?

Hari-śauri: No. There's some on the roof.

Prabhupāda: The . . . (indistinct) . . . is there? In the open?

Hari-śauri: No, it's undercover.

Devotee: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Jaya.

Hari-śauri: I was just telling him the monkeys are still there.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They're still there? They've gone.

Caraṇāravindam: I've just seen five minutes ago.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We know where those monkeys are coming from.

Hari-śauri: The monkeys live on the porch, one of those porches on the guesthouse where Arundhatī's room is. Around the other side.

Prabhupāda: You have not closed?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They're not in the dome. We looked into that. It's covered. Dome's completely . . .

Prabhupāda: No, the top room, they have not closed?

Hari-śauri: No, they have balconies. They said . . . I was told that they're living on one of the balconies around the other side, where Arundhatī's room is. They don't chase them away, so they just stay.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I just want the name of the person who gave us that land in Orissa, because I'm getting this retyped.

Prabhupāda: The name is Nityananda Kanungo.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Kanungo. What was his title before? What was he . . .? Ex-governor?

Prabhupāda: He was a minister in the Central Government, deputy minister.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Deputy minister.

Prabhupāda: Deputy minister in the Central Government.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: During when? Approximately?

Prabhupāda: During Jawaharlal Nehru's time. And later on, Governor of Gujarat.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Governor of . . .?

Prabhupāda: Gujarat. Now he's retired.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay, this is very good. This will get them to shut up their mouth completely. Okay.

Prabhupāda: So? Why you are unnecessarily . . .

Hari-śauri: It's not . . . just dripping a little bit. It's not so bad. I'm just wearing the cādara to keep the mosquitos off. I'm getting bitten, so I'm wearing a cādara to keep the insects away.

Prabhupāda: So it is coming again. (fountain starts) (break) . . . very celebrated astrologer.

Akṣayānanda: Yes. He said, "Well, Bhaktisiddhānta Mahārāja was."

Prabhupāda: But he gave up.

Akṣayānanda: That's what I told him. Instead of Sūryasiddhānta he became Bhaktisiddhānta. (indistinct comments aside)

Prabhupāda: If he wanted, he could have practiced lucratively. But he gave up.

Akṣayānanda: Yes, very good.

Prabhupāda: And he had many students.

(pause)

Akṣayānanda: Jaya . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: He dropped in the fountain?

Akṣayānanda: No, he's going on the outside.

Hari-śauri: He swims around sometimes inside.

Prabhupāda: They like it. But they make sound. (break) So if actually I am serious to serve Kṛṣṇa, I must begin immediately.

Hari-śauri: So that means utilizing whatever you already know.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's right. Because there is no guarantee. Suppose you are learning some art to serve Kṛṣṇa. In the meantime, if death takes place . . .

Hari-śauri: Then no service.

Prabhupāda: Then if you could not learn the art, at the same time you miss Kṛṣṇa's service. So that is not our principle. We want to serve Kṛṣṇa, svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya (Vedānta-saṅgraha). Whatever work you already expert, you do that. Just like he is doing. Whatever he knows, he is giving service. He's not going for sewing cloth, because he does not know that. Why should he waste time? He knows this art, let him do. That is service. Whatever you know, Kṛṣṇa can accept any service. Kṛṣṇa is not one-sided. Because He is everything, so He can accept every service, anything. That is stated, svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya. Whatever you know, you try to please Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's representative. The same thing. Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ, svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya (SB 1.2.13). Whatever you know, saṁsiddhiḥ, the perfection is hari-toṣaṇam. So we . . . whatever we already know. If he's a medical man, whatever little medical knowledge he has got, he can utilize it by serving. Why he should go to Āyur-vedic? That is not.

Devotee: Long time ago you wrote a letter to Jadurāṇī to do that. Jadurāṇī, she wants to do service.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I thought that when she first came I saw that here she has got a little tendency for painting. So I engaged immediately that, "You go on painting, whatever you can." So in the beginning she was not good painter. But still I said: "Anyway, you paint Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Nityānanda. And whatever you paint, it is accepted." It is not the art, but it is the service.

Hari-śauri: His point was that he doesn't have any service. So he was thinking if he learned something, because he already has a medical background . . .

Prabhupāda: So let him serve in that way. If he has got a little medical background, let him utilize that.

Hari-śauri: Yes. He wanted to branch out into Āyur-vedic so that he could . . .

Prabhupāda: That is his whims. That is not service.

Hari-śauri: I'll write him a letter.

Caraṇāravindam: There's a toad in the fountain.

Prabhupāda: He has already gone?

Caraṇāravindam: He's been in and out. He's had his swim. He's doing service for you . . . (indistinct) . . . I brought him three or four days ago to the garden.

Prabhupāda: What service he is doing?

Caraṇāravindam: He is eating all the bugs.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Caraṇāravindam: He eats bugs and those nasty flies and things, mosquitos.

Prabhupāda: Oh, they eat bugs?

Caraṇāravindam: Yes. They do very good service in gardens. Gardener's friend, the toad. Grass snakes, earthworm and the toad and frog—gardener's friends. He'll sit there and he'll wait for a fly to come.

Prabhupāda: Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam (SB 1.13.47). One life is food for the another life. Kṛṣṇa has made such an arrangement that every living entity has got some service. So he's allowed to do the service, then he's finished by another living entity.

Caraṇāravindam: A big snake may come and eat him. (break)

Hari-śauri: They eat off fat banana leaves in Māyāpur all the time.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Devotee: It's mentioned in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: No, common man in Bengal, Orissa, they'll take on banana leaves all vegetable preparations. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was invited by Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, He was taking on banana leaves.

Caraṇāravindam: I have some bitter gourd. I'm going to dry it and we can plant the seeds, karelā.

Prabhupāda: Karelā, it is also . . .

Caraṇāravindam: Wonderful sabjī.

Hari-śauri: Paṭola?

Prabhupāda: Paṭola also.

Hari-śauri: Can that be grown? Paṭola.

Prabhupāda: Paṭola, both leaves and fruits, they're useful. Very useful.

Caraṇāravindam: What is that?

Hari-śauri: Little round, green, oblong shape. Looks like a small cucumber. About this long. You can see some in the kitchen. (indistinct comments) (break)

Prabhupāda: You give me lunch in banana leaves. Give me.

Hari-śauri: We were doing that in Māyāpur. I remember last time.

Prabhupāda: Because there are so many banana leaves. You can utilize it. One leaf is sufficient for four plates at least.

Caraṇāravindam: Actually, I must confess, generally most days I use a bit of banana leaf to take some of your remnants on. Take a bit on a banana leaf, and then take from there. It is very handy. Actually, the monkeys they come and also they eat this leaf. They often come and tear off a piece of leaf and sit on this, eating them. Monkey.

Prabhupāda: That is destructive. They do not know.

Caraṇāravindam: They sit there eating them.

Prabhupāda: Because they do not get anything they make mischief. They're very mischievous. If they do not get any eatables they will cause mischief.

Caraṇāravindam: They sometimes come if a new shoot in the banana. The inside shoot, they break and take that. They seem to enjoy. I've seen them. They break it and eat it.

Hari-śauri: Do monkeys have any use? (laughs)

Prabhupāda: They have only use, their fat is very good medicine for burns.

Hari-śauri: For burns? Oh. If we get a dead . . .

Prabhupāda: Some portion is burned, monkey fat is very good medicine. The Chinese eat their brains.

Caraṇāravindam: I think the Japanese also do that. They drink it. They drink it through straws.

Prabhupāda: Monkey brain?

Caraṇāravindam: Yes. They cut the skull off a live monkey. They cut the skull off like egg and drink the brain through straw. I read in magazine how they do this. It's very common practice now.

Prabhupāda: Where they get this monkey?

Caraṇāravindam: The monkey's alive, and as you drink its brain it dies. They think this is also sport to them. Big, horrible demons.

Devotee: In New York, I heard . . . (indistinct)

Hari-śauri: Andy Warhol. Now . . . before I joined the movement I was working on a mining camp, and they used to serve out sheep's brains every day. It was a big favorite with the Yugoslavs. Sheep's brains and . . .

Caraṇāravindam: Hearts.

Prabhupāda: Living sheep and cut?

Hari-śauri: No, no. They kill them first. It's like the Arabs. They eat sheep's eyeballs.

Prabhupāda: They eat?

Hari-śauri: Yes. The eyeball. They think it's a great delicacy.

Prabhupāda: Now their delicacy, their own children. (break) . . . big stack of bricks, iron. Left over.

Hari-śauri: Sometimes they don't even finish the buildings they're building. That building across the road from our temple in New York, that's been there five years like that, half-completed.

Prabhupāda: Now things are deteriorating. And fire is always . . . (makes siren bell sound) dung-dung dung-dung-dung-dung-dung ga-waa ga-waa ga-waa. Saṁsāra-dāvānala. Still they think that they are advanced. In one hour, three times fire, still he is advanced. Therefore he is mūḍha. At least, in small city such disturbances are not . . . it is always ga-waa ga-waa ga-waa.

Hari-śauri: Police, ambulance, fire.

Prabhupāda: How the city life is attractive we cannot understand.

Hari-śauri: (laughs) Ask him. (referring to Harikeśa) He's always telling us how New York is the best place in the world.

Prabhupāda: You were born in New York? No. That is mother and . . . (laughter) Jananī jana. (Sanskrit) Any rotten place, birthplace has got some attraction.

Harikeśa: I feel perfectly at home there.

Prabhupāda: That is natural. Just like when I go to Calcutta. There is little difference. Therefore a sannyāsī is forbidden to live in his native place. There will be attraction. Caitanya Mahāprabhu never returned to Navadvīpa. (break) . . . no striking six o'clock. Did you mark it?

Hari-śauri: I never hear him ring it. At least the one in the daytime, I think he rings it.

Harikeśa: I heard the four o'clock.

Prabhupāda: He is not regular. That means he's another lazy fellow. All lazy fellows.

Harikeśa: He sits out here and he sleeps. He sleeps on the steps. I caught him last night.

Hari-śauri: When I was here before, sometimes I would go up to the caukidāra at night. They used to carry this big spear, a pole with a big sharp point on it, metal point. And I would take his spear and stick it in his ribs, and then he would wake up, "Oh." And then he would smile.

Prabhupāda: We have to maintain some paid . . .

Harikeśa: We've had so many caukidāras here, and not one of them was ever . . . (end)