761016 - Lecture BG 09.03 Hindi - Chandigarh

Lectures by Date, 1976

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

761016BG-CHANDIGARH - October 16, 1976 - 59:59 Minutes

(Translated from Hindi into English)

Pradyumna:

aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā

dharmasyāsya parantapa

aprāpya māṁ nivartante

mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani

(BG 9.3)

Translation: "Those who are not faithful on the path of devotional service cannot attain Me, O conqueror of foes, but return to birth and death in this material world."

Prabhupāda:

aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā

dharmasyāsya parantapa

aprāpya māṁ nivartante

mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani

(BG 9.3)

Yesterday I had spoken to you that one must increase attachment to the Lord. There is a thing called attachement, woman and man attraction, and there are other kinds of attachments. Srila Rupa Goswami has given this example that, O Lord, just like a young man is naturally attracted towards a young man and a young woman is naturally attracted towards a young man, similarly when will I be attracted towards You. This does not have to be taught. This is called simultaneous, natural.

So the same thing the Lord has explained in so many ways in the Bhagavad-gītā that how to bring about attachment for the Lord in these foolish persons. If he has this attachment, he will be released from the repeated birth and death, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. Two things, attachment to the Lord and the other repeated birth and death, mṛtyu-saṁsāra, these two things are in front of you. And in this human form of life you have the chance as to what path you want to take. That's why the Lord Himself comes and explains, the Lord explains in every possible way, all the Vedic scriptures talk about the Lord, there is no other subject in them. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15) All the Vedic scriptures that are there, there are four Vedas, 108 Upanishads are there, 18 Purāṇas are there, Ramāyāna is there, Mahabharata is there, etc., there are a number of Vedic scriptures, Vedānta Sutra is there, so what is their purpose? The purpose is this that the conditioned souls who have come into this material world and are undergoing different kinds of miseries, anādi karama-phale, paḍi' bhavārṇava-jale (Gītāvalī), it is like an ocean, and he has fallen into it and however expert swimmer he may be, there is a great effort required and there is no guarantee also. There are great tribulations. If someone is thrown into the ocean with hands and legs bound, so whatever condition that person is in, we are also in the same condition. We have fallen into this ocean of birth and death. That's why Caitanya Mahaprabhu is teaching us:

ayi nanda-tanuja kiṅkaraṁ

patitaṁ māṁ viṣame bhavāmbudhau

kṛpayā tava pāda-paṅkaja-

sthita-dhūlī-sadṛśaṁ vicintaya

(CC Antya 20.32, Śikṣāṣṭaka 5)

We should be constantly offering this prayer. This Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is a prayer:

Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare

Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

These are three words of the name of God. One is Kṛṣṇa, one is Rama and there is the word Hara, from the word Hara comes Hare, addressing, and Kṛṣṇa addressing the Lord and Rama addressing the Lord. Rama means Parabrahman, one who is the enjoyer and Kṛṣṇa is also Parabrahman, one who attracts everyone. Especially Kṛṣṇa Balarama, there is no difference between Rama and Balarama. There is no difference between Kṛṣṇa, Balarama and Rama.

rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan

nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu

kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo

govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

(BS 5.39)

The Lord has many forms, advaitam acyutam anādir ananta-rūpam (BS 5.33), unlimited forms, the scriptures say that just like one cannot count the number of storms in the ocean, similarly there are innumerable incarnations of the Lord which no one can count, impossible. This is stated in the scriptures. The kingdom of God is very big and to maintain it He has to take innumerable incarnations. All this has been in Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Vedic scriptures, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15) all the Vedas serve this purpose only, how to get back the conditioned souls who have fallen into this material world. (aside) What is that verse that, there are two kinds of living entities? There are two kinds of living entities, a conditioned living entity and a liberated living entity. The liberated living entities reside in the Vaikuntha planets. Their numbers are numerous. This material world that we are seeing, ekāṁśena sthito jagat (BG 10.42), that's all, its only one part. The universe that you are seeing is one universe. There are unlimited millions of universes like this. This can be known from the scriptures.

yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya

jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ

viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā-viśeṣo

govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

(BS 5.48)

From one exhalation of Maha Visnu innumerable universes come out and from one inhalation innumerable universes go into Him. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya So there is not only one universe, there are many universes, innumerable universes. The one universe in which you are living is one universe, there are unlimited universes like this. And combining all these universes makes one part of the Lord. Ekāṁśena sthito jagat (BG 10.42), when the Lord spoke to Arujna on His opulences, vibhuti yoga:

atha vā bahunaitena

kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna

viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam

ekāṁśena sthito jagat

(BG 10.42)

This is one fragment of the Lord. Similarly there is the Vaikuntha planets, about which we don't know anything. But we can know from the scriptures, Bhagavad-gītā tells us, paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20) (aside) Don't sit like this. Sit properly. 'Vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ, that abode is eternal. This abode, the material world, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.9), its created at one time, it stays for some time then it disappears—is destroyed. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate, just like your body, my body, this body was created a few days ago, its going on now, and then one day will come when this body will be destroyed. This body you will not get again, you will get another body. This will be finished. Similarly this material world, the universal form of the Lord, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate, at one time it is created, stays for some time, then it disappears. This goes on.

And other than this, paras tasmāt, there is another world, that is called Vaikuntha world. One must go there. If you remain here then bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate. You will get one body. And what body you will get according to your karma, and then it will be destroyed. That is why the Lord is coming Himself to explain, it is not a mental speculation, this is a fact, a reality. The Lord does not come to lie to you. The Lord says, aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā dharmasyāsya parantapa, Arjuna this real religious principles that I am talking about, if a person does not have faith in this, that what will be his benefit. The benefit will be, aprāpya māṁ, they will not attain the Lord. māṁ, the Lord says Himself. They will not attain Me. Aprāpya māṁ nivartante, then what will be the benefit. Again in this cycle, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani nivartante. Now he has got a human form of life, Bhagavad-gītā is in front of you, and the Lord is Himself speaking. If someone says He is not present personally. No! Lord and His words are one and the same. If the Bhagavad-gītā is present in front of you, then understand that the Lord is also present in front of you. Absolute, advaya – jñāna, ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ (NOD 1.2.234):

nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś

caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ

pūrṇaḥ śuddho nitya-mukto

'bhinnatvān nāma-nāminoḥ

(Padma Purana)

Absolute means advaya – jñāna, whatever the Lord is, His words in the Bhagavad-gītā is the same. Don't think that the Bhagavad-gītā is there in front of me but the Lord isn't. No. The Lord Himself. One must try to understand the Bhagavad-gītā in this manner. The Lord and His words, just like the Lord and His names bhinnatvān nāma-nāminoḥ, this Hare Kṛṣṇa kirtana which is happening, this Hare Kṛṣṇa, the Lord is personally present, dancing on the tongue. The pure devotee who is offense less, when he does kirtana, the Lord dances on his tongue. This one has to understand. And whether you understand or don't understand, if this word Kṛṣṇa had been of this material world, then twenty four hours of the day they chant Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, no one feels tired. Try chanting any other material word ten or twenty times and you will feel tired by doing so. And Hari kirtana is such a thing that the more you do it, the more you advance in it, the more enthusiastic you will feel. Rupa Goswami says that the Lord has given me one tongue and two ears. If He had given crores of ears and crores of tongues then there would be some bliss in doing kirtana. This is a subject matter of experience. That the name of the Lord, the quality of Lord, the pastimes of the Lord, the paraphernalia of the Lord, they are all the Lord Himself. This is called advaya–jñāna.

So don't think that the Lord has spoken the Bhagavad-gītā personally to Arjuna, now the Lord is no longer present personally in front of us. Some say show me God. Only one who has love for God can see Him. premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (BS 5.38) One who has love for God he is always seeing the Lord. There is nothing other than the Lord for him to see, whatever he sees. Just like it is said in the Caitanya Caritamrta:

sthāvara-jaṅgama dekhe, nā dekhe tāra mūrti

sarvatra haya nija iṣṭa-deva-sphūrti

(CC Madhya 8.274)

When the devotee sees the microphone, the loudspeaker, he doesn't see the loudspeaker. He sees the Lord. Why? Because he know what is that loudspeaker. He loves the Lord, he knows the Lord, he knows that it is an expansion of one of his potencies. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca (BG 7.4) What is this thing, made up of earth, bhumi, tejo-vāri-mṛdāṁ vinimayo (SB 1.1.1), iron, what is iron, it is another form of earth. It is cooked in fire and it gets another form. In this way the microphone is made, but it is the Lord's potency. What belongs to the Lord must be used in the Lord's service. This is the philosophy of a devotee. That is why he doesn't see the microphone. He sees it as belonging to the Lord, it is an expansion of the Lord's potency, how can it be employed in the service of the Lord.

That is why for the devotee there is nothing material. Everything is spiritual. The advaitavadis say that everything is one but this is his material philosophy. They have two philosophies, brahma satya jagat mithya, so even if you are an advaitavadi then why there are two philosophies. That is why the Vaisnava is a suddha advaitavadi. His philosophy is pure. What has come out of the potency of the Lord, is non different from the Lord. That is also spiritual. Sarvam khalu idam brahma. He sees all as Brahman. He sees nothing material.

prāpañcikatayā buddhyā

hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ

mumukṣubhiḥ parityāgo

vairāgyaṁ phalgu kathyate

(NOD 1.2.66)

The renunciant when he gives up an object related to the Lord considering it to be material, that Rupa Goswami has called phalgu vairagya, that is not complete renunciation. Renunciation is complete when a person understands that everything belongs to God, Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Nothing belongs to us, that is called renunciation. And that this is material, this is mine, this should be employed in my service, this is material philosophy. Material means where Kṛṣṇa is not remembered, that is material. Absence of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise factually there is nothing which is material. Because everything, Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1), janmādy asya yato (SB 1.1.1), everything has emanated from the Lord. So it has emanated from the Lord, then how can it be false? This is a philosophical viewpoint.

So therefore one must approach a bona fide spiritual master and try to understand everything very nicely, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet, this word abhigacchet has been used. In Sanskrit grammar this is called vidhi linga, this is a vidhi. Just like there is law, you cannot refute it. Just like on the road "Keep to the left", this is law. You cannot disobey it. Similarly vidhi linga means that it is not subject to your happiness or acceptance, this has to be done, gurum eva abhigacchet, he must approach. These are all scriptural injunctions. In human form of life, one must understand the Lord and to understand the Lord, one must approach a spiritual master.

And who is a spiritual master? One who speaks what the Lords speaks, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). Just like Judge Sharma told you, knowledge was imparted to Brahma by the Lord, tene brahma hṛdā ya ādi-kavaye (SB 1.1.1), adi kavi is the name of Lord Brahma. So Lord Vāsudeva He gave knowledge to Lord Brahma. How did He impart? At that time the Lord was not personally present. The Lord was elsewhere and Lord Brahma was contemplating in the darkness, where have I come from, what is my business, he was thinking of all these things. Tene brahma hṛdā ya, so the Lord imparted this knowledge in the heart of Lord Brahma. He can give you also. It's not that he gave only to Lord Brahma and he will not give you. He will give you also. When will he give?

teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ

bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam

dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ taṁ

yena mām upayānti te

(BG 10.11)

This is mentioned in the scriptures, the Lord Himself has spoken this. You acquire the qualification. What is that qualification? Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ, satata, twenty four hours, only meditate on the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14), this is a mahatma, a great soul. So that's why one should chant the holy names constantly:

Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare

Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

Go on the road say Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa, sit in the bus say Hare Kṛṣṇa, travel in the train say Hare Kṛṣṇa, vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor (SB 9.4.18) always keep the mind at the lotus feet of the Lord. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto (BG 9.34). When you place your mind at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, you become a devotee. It is not difficult to become a devotee. Everyone can become a devotee. It is natural. Son loving his father is natural. It is not required to be taught. It's only that some forget this and needs to be reminded about his forgetfulness. That is the scripture.

That is why the scripture is there, what we have forgotten, to remind us all these scriptures are there. That is why we must contemplate on the scriptures. If we don't meditate on the scriptures then aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā (BG 9.3) a person who doesn't have faith in the scriptures, dharmasyāsya parantapa, this Vedic religious principles, call it bhagavata dharma, atma dharma, this is the real dharma or real religious principles. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19) what the Lord orders is dharma. You cannot manufacture religious principles. Just like the judge is there and a foolish person goes to the court and says, "My Lord. The laws you are acting on are of no use. I have made my own laws. Act on these." Will the judge listen to him? No. He will accept the laws laid down by the government. In the same way dharma means dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam, what the Lord orders is dharma, the rest is all cheating, nothing else.

That is why the Lord says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), give up all this cheating religions. If you want real religious principles, then this is the real one, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), accept what I have ordered. That will be beneficial to you. Here also He says the same thing, at the end He says sarva-dharmān, and in the middle in the Ninth Chapter, aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā dharmasyāsya parantapa (BG 9.3). For one who has no faith in whatever I am speaking, these religious principles, what will be his achievement? Aprāpya māṁ (BG 9.3) he will not attain Me. And nivartante, he will fall into the cycle. Which cycle? Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3), this mortal world, accept a body and die. And between birth and death, undergo sufferings on account of diseases and old age. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 10.9).

All the attempts we are making to solve the problems, all the big big law makers, the real problem is this only, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi, what is the solution you have found for these, tell me. There are big big scientists, law makers, but what have you done for this? No! This will happen anyways! This will not happen! Why should it happen? The Lord says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20) why do we get this destructible body? That should be our question. And to get stuck up here and there with small questions, what will be the benefit in this? Find a solution to this, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). this, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19), one time you accept a body, one time you die, why are you entangled in this? This is not in their brain. That is why He says, mudha, ass.

In another instance the Lord has said, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15), the Lord is teaching this, this religious principle, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), you will find happiness in this only. Otherwise mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3), you will remain fallen here and for millions of lifetimes keep wandering. This is the solution to your life. Accept this. And who does not accept this? Aśraddadhānāḥ, one who has no faith in the pastimes of the Lord, Kṛṣṇa katha, they do not accept this.

That is why the Lord says, that this person does not accept what I speak, who are they, duṣkṛtino, mūḍhāḥ, narādhamāḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ (BG 7.15), such a person. Duṣkṛtinaḥ—most sinful, most sinful. The Lord Himself comes and explains, shows the right path, but he will not accept this. Why? Because he is most sinful. And why did he become the most sinful? Mūḍhāḥ, ass. All these sinful persons, law breakers they are foolish, foolish. Just like if a child takes somebody's stuff, he can be excused. But if he is 16 or 18 years old and takes things of others, then that becomes thievery. If he goes to the court and says that from childhood I am used to taking other people's things, I was not aware that this is thievery, so that is no excuse. Ignorance is no excuse.

So only those people perform sinful activities, mudhah, ass, who do not know the Lord, the laws laid down by the Lord, the religious principles in truth, they are animals. So it is not sinful for the animal. But if you have got a human form of life, then you have to know. Otherwise you will be subjected to pious and impious reactions. The Vedic injunctions are not for the animals. Just like the laws of the government it is not for the asses and dogs. It is for the humans. If man breaks any law then he will be punished.

Similarly if one gets a human body and does not understand the pastimes of the Lord, aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā dharmasyāsya parantapa, then what is his benefit? Again condemned. Nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3), this must be understood. These are two things, there are two paths. One path go to the Lord, yad gatvā na nivartante (BG 15.6) take that path. Otherwise go on this path, for lifetimes accept a body and then another. It is not that you will get only a human body in the next life. There is no guarantee for this. If you get the body of a tree, then remain standing for ten thousand years. In San Fransisco I have seen a tree, it's called the red tree, was told that its lifetime is seven thousand years. There a number of trees like this. Such a big punishment it is. Just imagine if you are asked to stand here for one hour, then this is so miserable. And that tree stands for seven thousand years, he doesn't have the power to move an inch from there. That is also a form of body in the 8,400,000 species of life. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir (BG 2.13), one must understand all this. Why do you get yourself entangled in this mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3), ocean of repeated birth and death. Why do you get stuck in the waves of māyā?

Bhaktivinoda Thakura has sung this song, māyāra vaśe, yāccha bhese, khāccha hābuḍubu, bhāi, just like if there is a river of māyā, if you are thrown in, sometimes we drown, sometimes we swim and rise, but it is very painful. Till the time we are under the grip of māyā we will have to be swept away by the waves, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. Sometimes we get body of human being, sometimes we get body of tree, sometimes we get body of demigod, sometimes we get body of rich man, sometimes we get body of a dog, this is not in your hands. This is in the hands of the material nature as you do so you reap. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27) You are not independent, you are under the clutches of material nature, daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā. Till the time you are under the clutches of material nature, you will be entangled in this ocean, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. This has to be understood.

So it is appropriate that what the Lord says as real religious principles, you understand that and have faith in that. Oh! Let him talk! No it is not like that! Then you are committing suicide. You are cutting your own throat. Don't do that. Don't spoil your human form of life! Bahu sambhavante, after many lifetimes you have got this body, after travelling through 8400000 species of life.

jala-jā nava-lakṣāṇi 

sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati

kṛmayo rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ

(Visnu Purana)

This happens gradually. First jalaja, pralaya payodhi jale, at the time of devastation everything was water. So in the water there must be creatures of the water. Pralaya payodhi jale, jala-jā nava-lakṣāṇi, it is not that there is only one single animal in that water. Nava-lakṣh, 900,000 kinds of creatures are there, they undergo evolution. Jala-jā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati, then when the water dries up there are trees, grass, plants, all these are there, 200,000. So in the same way after being insects etc., you get human form of life, you get human form of life. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18) you get all kinds of bodies. And after that out of great piety you get birth in this land of India, human body, don't waste it. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā (BG 3.27). Nowadays there is an ego—I am very learned, I am very intelligent, I am a big officer—this is ego. That ego is all right, but that is vimūḍhātmā, those who don't understand their interest. So what is the use of having that type of ego? Sitting in the house you are a rich man. You may be a rich man but the laws of material nature whether you are a rich man or anyone else you have to accept that. Just like if you infect a disease, whether you are a rich man or a poor man, you have to undergo the suffering of that disease. This is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:

puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi

bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān

kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya

(BG 13.22)

Till we are in this material world, then prakṛti-jān guṇān, that we will have to suffer. And because of this association with the modes of material nature, sattva-guna, rajo-guna and tamo-guna, the way we associate with the modes of material nature, that type of body we will get.

ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā

madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ

jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā

adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ

(BG 14.18)

These are the sentiments. The Lord comes Himself to explain. This Bhagavad-gītā we are reading is not manufactured by us. This was spoken by the Lord Himself, that's why the Lord says, aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā dharmasyāsya parantapa, I am speaking, those who do not have faith in this, what will be his benefit? nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3) This is suicidal. This should not be done. Listen the words of the Lord. And make your life successful. To get swept away in the waves of the illusory energy or māyā, is not appropriate. Human life is not given for doing whatever I want. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā, I am the doer. I do not accept anyone. Who is God? This is demoniac. Leave all this.

That's why we began by saying na vidur āsurāḥ janā (BG 16.7). Which path we have to take, pravrtti path or the nivrtti path, pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca na vidur āsurāḥ janā (BG 16.7). Which path to take, that the demon does not know. Why? Mayayapahrta jnana, what is the use of getting a degree in the university. His real knowledge has been snatched away by the illusory energy. Mayayapahrta jnana, there will be no benefit from this knowledge.

That's why the scriptures says tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet, for this knowledge approach a bona fide, learn from him praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ tat (BG 4.34). This is appropriate for human form of life. That is why in our Vedic civilization the boys are sent to the gurukula right in the beginning, that go and learn! What is the goal of life, this is not taught. But one who want to learn can do so, as everything is available Vedas, Vedānta, scriptures etc. And the spiritual master is also there but we don't care for this. Oh, what will happen will all this. What is the benefit of all this? Use the hammer. Use the hammer. Will get loads of money, will drink alcohol and make merry. This śūdra civilization has no benefits. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In Kali-yuga the śūdra civilization is very prevalent.

Especially in the western countries we learn how to set up factories, drink alcohol and be merry! No! But these people have reformed. They don't want any more. That is why these boys here tell me that "Mahārājaif we had not met you we would have committed suicide." So it had become so hopeless. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness is giving life to them. Life, yes there is life. There is worth living life. Not like cats and dogs, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

So in India, this is the product of India why do you give it up, what kind of intelligence is that? This is not correct. Accept it again. Read the Bhagavad-gītā very nicely and don't interpret it nonsensically. That Kuruksetra is the body and the five Pandavas are the senses. Not like this. As it is, try to understand Bhagavad-gītā. Why do you interpret Kuruksetra as the body. Which dictionary says so? But they do this as they are all mad. Kuruksetra is there till now, very near your Chandigarh. Kuruksetra is dharmaksetra, this is said in the scriptures. Kuruksetre dharmam acaret, It is not only now, this is there since the Vedic times. So dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre, all the Pandavas assembled there. Yuyutsavaḥ, they had to decide on who is going to gain the kingdom, hence for battle, yuyutsavaḥ. So to understand this, why does it have to be misinterpreted with nonsensical meanings? The meaning is very clear that why is there and Bhagavad-gītā, where was it spoken. So don't act over smart. Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, read that, what the Lord says accept that, that will be beneficial to you.

And if you don't, aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā dharmasyāsya parantapa māṁ aprāpya (BG 9.3). He doesn't understand that what is the benefit of attaining the Lord, he doesn't know. But this is the real thing, to attain the Lord. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo (BG 15.15), na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31) to go to the Lord, to attain the Lord, that is the goal of life. That they do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31), this bahir-artha is external energy, bahiranga sakti, they are entangled in that. He thinks that by some adjustment in the material world I will be happy. Because the fool doesn't know that he can never be happy in this world 'till you don't attain the Lord.

And the leaders lead him in this way. See we have made this plan for you, you accept it, and you will become happy. And what kind of leader is this? andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās (SB 7.5.31). There is one blind man and he is telling the other blind man, look I will help you cross the road. This is going on. Te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). All these plans one makes will not work, as māyā or illusory energy is so strong daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14), 'till you don't take shelter of the Lord you will be given all kinds of suffering, understand this. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te daivī (BG 7.14) 'till you don't surrender unto the Lord, you must suffer, three fold miseries, mṛtyu-saṁsāra, we forget that this world of death is so painful. To die once, and to remain in the womb of a mother, be bound up hands and legs like this for ten months, suffocated situation, packed up air tight bag. At least try to understand the difficulties in taking birth. And that too nowadays the mother goes to the doctor and gets it aborted. One must understand all this. By the dint of modern civilization the child in pain already in the womb, the doctors give injection, let this child be killed. That has become a law in Europe, America, that there is nothing wrong in doing so. This is going on. This is mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. The most sinful persons, they don't come out of the mother's womb at all.

(break)

If you don't follow that is up to you, but you will have to suffer on this account. There will no benefit in this. Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa!

Question: (indistinct) . . . how can one be liberated.

Prabhupāda: Why do you want to stay in this material world. This is a stubbornness that we have to stay in this material world. This is a material world. When the Russians first launched the Sputnik, it went up very high and from there they would see where is our Moscow? This attachment, why do you feel that we need to remain in this material world. You take leave from the material world, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti so 'rjuna (BG 4.9). What is the need for us to remain in this material world? What is the benefit? There is no benefit, only undergo suffering. Why this stubbornness that we need to remain in this material world. Behave in such a manner that we don't need to come back to this material world again. This should be the goal of life. The solution to this has been given by the Lord:

janma karma ca me divyam

evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti so 'rjuna

(BG 4.9)

Just understand Lord Kṛṣṇa, why does the Lord descend, why does He take so much trouble to teach us, what is the nature of His appearance and His activities. Janma karma ca me divyam, it has been called divyam, transcendental. The appearance of the Lord, His participation in the battle of Kuruksetra, all this is transcendental. This is not material. The Lord is not material, His body is not material, His activities are not material, they are all spiritual. If you understand this much only, then your life is successful. That is why the scriptures are there.

The Lord is not a material product. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11) by being merciful, the Lord is descending in the human form to instruct us. So don't think that the Lord is just like one of us, a person like us. The asses think like this. That is why it is said that if you can only understand the transcendental pastimes of the Lord, then tyaktvā dehaṁ, you have to give up the body. Those who have not understood the Lord, they have to give up this body and take up another body, whether body of demigod or the body of a dog, but he will have to accept another body. And if one understands the Lord, janma karma ca me divyam evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ, if one has understood the Lord, then tyaktvā dehaṁ, then after giving up this body, punar janma naiti, means he will not have to accept another material body. He will go back to Godhead with his spiritual body, that is wanted.

So by living in this material world how you can go back to Godhead in the next life, that solution the Lord is Himself giving in the Bhagavad-gītā, you remain in whatever situation you are in, just hear, sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir (SB 10.14.3). You remain in your situation, there is no need to change anything. It's not that you are a householder and you have to become a renunciate, or you are a judge you have to give that up. No! Just hear the pastimes of the Lord. There are many pastimes available for you to listen. Hear the Bhagavad-gītā as the Lord has spoken. This hearing will give you all the benefits, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam (SB 7.5.23).

It is not very difficult, sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir, remain in your situation, no need to change anything but hear. The Lord has given you ears, use them effectively, hear the Vedas, and other scriptures very attentively. This is called sruti, hear, hear more and more. That is why this meeting has been arranged so that you all come and listen. This is the only solution. Remain in this material world, remain in your situation, just hear, twenty four hours of the day just hear—śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ, satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ (BG 9.14), just hear. Your life will become successful, there is no need to change anything. One must listen, this is the thing. And one must hear from where? Hear from the bona fide guru. To hear from a person who talks all nonsense will not be beneficial. Hear from the proper person, your job will be done.

Devotee: Someone has asked three questions. All these three have already been answered. When you question, when Guru Mahārāja ji speaks you hear attentively. What he has already spoken, you are writing that and sending it in. if you don't understand something then asking questions is appropriate. The question was, how in the world a man can live peacefully? How one can renounce the world?

Prabhupāda:' What is that?

Devotee: How one can renounce the world?

Prabhupāda: Renounce the what?

Devotee: World.

Devotee: How can renounce the world.

Prabhupāda: There is no need to renounce. You cannot renounce. What will you renounce? What belongs to you for you to renounce? Everything belongs to God. If it belongs to you then the question of renunciation comes. Iśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1), there is no question of renouncing. Just understand that everything belongs to the Lord. Just understanding this will give you results. What will you renounce? You have nothing, even this body does not belong to you. Then what can you renounce?

That is why in this world two things are happening, one is renouncement and one is enjoyment. The foolish persons try to enjoy what belongs to others. And there is another kind of foolish person who has nothing of his own, but he claims that I am renouncing. What belongs to you for you to renounce? Both are foolish. The enjoyer is foolish and the renouncer is also foolish. And who is a person in knowledge, jnani, one who knows that I do not possess anything to renounce, nor do I have the right to enjoy the property of others. That is why to whom it all belongs, in His service it should be employed . . . īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam, he is a jnani. That is an intelligent person. Who is that? A devotee. The devotee neither renounces nor enjoys. Everything is used in the service of the Lord by that jnani.

Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), there are two kinds of dharma in this material world. There is the karmi, he plans only for enjoyment. (coughs) That is the dharma of the karmi or fruitive worker. And those who claim to be jnani's or philosophical speculators they say brahma satya jagat mithya, leave this false world. There are two of these.

That is why the Lord says leave both the karmi dharma and the jnani dharma. What should be accepted? Bhakti dharma. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam When all desires are given up and one is liberated from jnana and karma, then you will get bhakti, ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā, take shelter of that devotional service and you will be successful.

Devotee: There is one more question. He has written, Guruji had said I only know Kṛṣṇa, not anybody else rest are all thugs. Is that so?

Prabhupāda: So what is the question in that? The Lord Himself says, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15), what can be more insulting than this? So one who is an ass, most sinful, lowest of mankind, the Lord has said so many times, I have said only once a thug. What is the fault? The Lord has insulted so many times. One who is lowest of mankind, most sinful, ass, has no knowledge, demon, all this He has said. I only said thug, he is a thug, takes the things belonging to the Lord and says that it is his. This is prevalent all over the world. This is my country, someone says this is my India, someone says this is my America, someone says this is my Pakistan. They are all thugs. Why? bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29) The Lord says I am the master of everyone, sarva-loka-maheśvaram, how is it yours? So he is thug. What have I said wrong? All are thugs, those who have taken God's property and enjoying it and do not accept the Lord, they are all thugs. I have not said anything wrong, all of you understand. Any more questions?

Devotee: Why does the human being perform sinful activities if he is a part and parcel of the Lord?

Prabhupāda: Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22), just like I have this finger, part of me, if it is infected with some disease, then the finger is painful. That infection is, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu, all these living entities who have come to the material world, they are part and parcel of the Lord. It is all right that they are part and parcel of God but because they have come to this material world and they have to associate sattvic, rajasic, tamasic, so according to the association he gets a body kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya . . . (break) (end)