761102 - Conversation A - Vrndavana

Conversations by Date, 1976

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

761102R1-VRNDAVAN - November 02, 1976 - 72.59 Minutes

(Conversation on New York court case)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So a lot of these parents are saying that we should all be . . . we should be investigated. Now they are saying that we are not Hindus, and they are saying that by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, the thinking of the brain stops.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So in New York the press is against us. But in Los Angeles it is going in our favor, he said (referring to report by Rāmeśvara). In Los Angeles they had kidnapped the best girl distributor. Now she has come back, but, ah . . .

Prabhupāda: So these things will happen.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: They are, as soon as we become very important, our enemies, they will try to suppress us.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is what they are doing.

Prabhupāda: So that is natural. Even Kṛṣṇa was suppressed. Kṛṣṇa could not be suppressed, but the attempt was there, Kamsa. So these things go on, still we have to work.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: If we work sincerely then we'll come out successful.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So there are a few things . . .

Prabhupāda: We should not be afraid. Yuddhyasva mām anusmara (BG 8.7). Kṛṣṇa advised Arjuna that "You fight," not that we shall not fight. We shall fight to the best . . . (indistinct) . . . and this is good, they are feeling the pressure of this movement. Otherwise, why they are going to take step?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But they, what they do . . . these parents, what they want to do, they want this to be declared illegal. Now they . . .

Prabhupāda: Illegal . . . they can, the children can also, those who are our children they can form an association.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But they cannot control us, our independence.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: They should form. How the . . .?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But of course, we want to defeat them . . .

Prabhupāda: The parents, the parents cannot control their sons and daughters who is above eighteen.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We want to defeat these people legally, because now it's a very big case and every paper in America is covering it. Every paper.

Prabhupāda: That means they're feeling pressure. They're feeling pressure. Now we should take proper steps, that's all.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They had a big press conference in which Professor Shukla spoke up . . .

Prabhupāda: Hmm. He has spoken very nicely.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Rāmeśvara said that he got up and he said: "How can . . . you are insulting our religion, saying we are not . . ."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, better that the Indians should combine and they should bring a case against these people.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And then it will be all right. That "This is, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is genuine, and these people are trying to insult us." Bring a defamation case against these persons.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I think the best thing is to mobilize all the Indians in America, because every country . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, that I have already suggested, that they should take signature from all Indians that "this is genuine Indian cultural movement, and it a great fortune for Indians. They were bereft of their own culture and now we have got this culture again. The Ratha-yātrā is going on, we are so much enlivened." In this way they should file petition.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like in England they would not let you do the Ratha-yātrā, the Indians . . .

Prabhupāda: Ah. This is discrimination against sect . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Against minority.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Against minority.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And no government in the world wants to do that.

Prabhupāda: It is against American constitution. So they should file immediately a case.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And America is very sensitive to . . .

Prabhupāda: So you note down. You are simply hearing. Note down and inform them. Yes. Ah, it is being recorded, that's all right. So give them this direction. Combine the Indian community. In Toronto and in . . . there are many thousands of Indians, New York, Canada, London. These are very important places.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we can do that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, many thousands and thousands of important Indians, very rich men there are. In London there are very rich Indians. They can form immediately a solid association. They should present that, "This Kṛṣṇa is our God. In every Indian home we observe Kṛṣṇa Janmāṣṭamī." Even though one does not follow Kṛṣṇa cult, still if he is Hindu he follows the Janmāṣṭamī. Inevitably, everywhere. So this Kṛṣṇa cult is genuine, Vedic, based on Bhagavad-gītā, which was spoken long, long years ago before any religion . . . any religious literature in the world. The Buddha literature or the Christian literature and Jewish literature, they cannot be counted more than two thousand years. A little more than that. But this Kṛṣṇa cult is coming, it is coming from, I have already explained in the Introduction, it is coming from four hundred millions of years ago. But even from historically, it is five thousand years—beyond all religious literature in the world. We have to present this case in the court. And let it be discussed thorough . . . yes, and see our books, compare any religious books with our these books. Present all the opinions of big, big professors how traditional Indian culture is there. You have to fight, organize. Give them hint, this.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: How they can defeat us? We have got so solid ground. How they can defeat, these rascals? We consider them simply rascals and fools. And we call them rascals and fools. What do they know of religion? What do they know of God? They know slaughterhouse and killing and illicit sex, and killing the fetus. That's all. What do they know? They are not even civilized. We have come to make them civilized. They should understand. They are not civilized. They do not how to eat even. The first principle of life is eating. They do not know how to eat. We are teaching them how to eat. They simply challenge, like that. When men are uncivilized, they do not how to grow food, they kill animals in the jungle and eat. When they are civilized, they know how to grow food now, and the nice food grains, fruit, flowers, now why should say, "You eat the meat"? The meat-eating is meant for the most uncivilized persons. That means they do not know even how to eat. They do not know how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex. Nothing. They're having sex like cats and dogs. No marriage—girl's friend, boy's friend, and then illegitimate . . . so many things. They should be exposed.

And there is no harm exposing, in truth. Simply by manufacturing, constructing a big, high skyscraper building, does it mean he is civilized? It is passionate work. They can take credit of a good mistrī, just like so many mistrīs, they construct. I cannot do. Does it mean I am less than him? I could not construct this temple. I have to call some low class, a builder and company, they constructed. Does it meant he is higher in intelligence than me? They are giving credit, "Oh, now they have constructed skyscraper building. They have constructed motorcar, horseless carriage." They are taking credit on this. But this is not civilization. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has given the formula of civilization, three words: mātṛvat para-dāreṣu. Where is that civilization, to consider every woman as mother? Except one's own married wife, all women, mother. Where is that civilization? That should be; otherwise there cannot be social regulation. Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu para dravyeṣu loṣṭravat: others' property is just like garbage in the street. Nobody touches the garbage. That is civilization. So Mr. Pillai . . . (break)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . got to do. He wants members of parliament to give . . .

Prabhupāda: Hmm. That we have already suggested. Immediately. Every member of . . . if Mr . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Krishna Modi.

Prabhupāda: . . . Brahmānanda . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Reddy.

Prabhupāda: . . . he suggested that this movement should be spread all over the world. Let him write.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He won't give it in writing.

Prabhupāda: No. That is his insincerity.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Frankly, Śrīla Prabhupāda, no member of parliament will give it either. I know it, because even when Tejiyas was applying for his citizenship, Krishna Modi would not even give a letter of recommendation because he said this is a Congress Party policy.

Prabhupāda: Then what can be done? Everything is nasty.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So this is what we'll do. We'll be starting a . . .

Prabhupāda: You can give the names. There are so many members.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We are starting a petition here also.

Prabhupāda: Not only petition. You can give the . . . ask what is this . . . (indistinct) . . . this Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And also . . .

Prabhupāda: If there is . . . now Brahmānanda has at least given this order that they should be given two . . . that they be allowed to stay two years. That letter is there.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I have that letter. That letter says they have come to study Vedic literature.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That letter is there. Also we have a lot of other letters from great . . .

Prabhupāda: The Indians should send a petition to the government, that "We want this movement here. We are separated from our culture. A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami has brought this . . ."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They say mobilizing the Indians in America . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . and that's most important thing because . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a most important thing, that you cannot discriminate minority communities. That is against American constitution.

Haṁsadūta: Prabhupāda, when this . . . when we had a similar situation in Germany, what we wanted to do is have all our centers in important cities in foreign countries all over the world make a letter and a delegation to visit the United States Embassy in all these places. This will have an effect, because if it's brought, if it comes in this way, international reaction . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, arrange like this.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We're going to send . . . Rāmeśvara suggested we send a big petition of telegrams to the American Consulate. Because then American Consulate will transmit these telegrams to the State Department in Washington. We said that if our . . . we would pay for it, but our Life Members will all sign if we send a telegram to the American . . .

Prabhupāda: Hmm, Dr. Shaligram taken a leading part?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Who?

Hari-śauri: Dr. Shaligram Shukla.

Prabhupāda: Shaligram Shukla.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In America? Yes.

Prabhupāda: He is a learned scholar, and he is influential man in educational circles. There are many Indians you'll find, they are . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So we can mobilize all the Indians. That's the best process.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Indian opinion. I have already given suggestion to. The Indians should come forward. And from here also, similar, if the member . . . (indistinct) . . . know. Respectable Indian businessmen, they should say that, "This Kṛṣṇa cult is very, very old, genuine, and we are so enlightened that Swami Bhaktivedanta has taken this movement to the foreign countries. We are so proud," like that.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We want to do that.

Prabhupāda: And that is a fact. Everyone is feeling proud. Take all signature of the gosvāmīs here, influential, that "This is genuine." Prove there, that it is genuine movement.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And we have letters from Swami Premananda and all the . . . (indistinct) . . . and all these letters from Bombay. I'm shipping all these to Rāmeśvara.

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone should join. Now people are taking this cultural movement so seriously, and if our Indian leaders sleep, that is not good.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, I have . . . one boy in Delhi went to the British Embassy High Commission and bought a British paper, and even in the British paper the American court case was covered. Headline was "Hare Kṛṣṇa . . ." I have the paper. Even in the British paper it had a prominent display. Normally you would expect . . .

Haṁsadūta: Probably be in German papers too . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. In fact you would probably expect that . . .

Prabhupāda: British paper. What does it say?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They were covering this court case. They had a nice prominent . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no. They have taken it. Now, they are after intelligent person. They are . . . that has been expressed by this gentleman that, "It is going like epidemic." They must expect. That is their feeling, that "Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is spreading so fast, like epidemic, we must take some step." That is already, they have expressed their feeling. And you said that in Australia, there one man said . . .

Hari-śauri: Yes, psychiatrist.

Prabhupāda: . . . that if the people take to this movement, then where you stand? He has also expressed. What is that?

Hari-śauri: There's a psychiatrist, after the Sydney City Council are trying to have us banned from the city altogether, and they took us to court, and we didn't contest the case and they lost. And then afterwards they . . . it worked out they spent $10,000 and so much manpower to try to get rid of us, and it didn't work. And then one newspaper man went to a psychiatrist and he asked him, "Can you explain why this huge reaction against just a few people singing and dancing in the street?" So he said basically it's because the city-dwellers feel very threatened by our simple lifestyle.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just see. So this whole Western civilization is threatened.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They are afraid of the Kṛṣṇa conscious movement.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Their whole economic structure will fail. Theoretically, take it for granted that if people give up meat-eating . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No smoking, no drinking.

Prabhupāda: . . . then whole civilization finished. Even theoretically taken, no smoking, no gambling, no intoxication, no illicit sex, their whole civilization is finished. Lord Zetland said . . . not only that, one Sir Valentine Chirol, I think, Sir Valentine Chirol, British, important, when Gandhi started non-cooperation. So he remarked that, "If Gandhi's movement, this non-cooperation movement, is one percent successful, then we will have to leave it." And actually that happened. Because they were ruling over India by Indian cooperation. So Gandhi struck to the right point, non-cooperation, and he scented the danger, and he remarked in that time that if one percent Indian people non-cooperate, then we are . . . our British Empire finished. So there are intelligent persons, they are thinking in their own way that, "This movement is so strong against this modern material civilization, if it is allowed to spread then our whole civilization, whole economic structure will be finished."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: What they're doing now, these parents are getting . . . contacting devotees who have blooped, and they're getting these devotees to make statements against us.

Prabhupāda: Just see. They are living peacefully in a villa in Paris so happily that, ah . . . some . . . one gentleman came to see me, "Swamiji, you are preaching against meat-eating. This cannot be done in this country, then we will starve." I said: "No, you will never starve. You take this formula." (laughs) So they are thinking like that.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And the most dangerous point is that young men are taking part.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The future of the country.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That means it will continue. Young men, they take anything very seriously. So this movement is threatening the—what is called?—foundation of material civilization in the Western countries. That's a fact. The foundation is threatened. Their whole foundation is this: meat-eating, illicit sex, gambling and intoxication. They have no other formula. Lord Zetland, when he was asking one of my Godbrothers that, "Can you make me Brahmin?" So "Yes, why not? You follow." He said: "It is impossible for us. It is impossible for us. And we are no one." That's a fact. If some percentage of the population, European and American population, take it seriously, then it will be dangerous for their government, their economic situation, that's a fact. That, our Sudāmā Vipra is saying that, theatrical . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Sudāmā Swami is in New York.

Hari-śauri: Sudāmā Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: Hah! And whole situation is threatened, Caitanya Mahāprabhu movement. Have you seen that?

Hari-śauri: That play.

Prabhupāda: Play?

Hari-śauri: Kali. Age of Kali.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The purport of the play is that this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is threatening to all the associates of pāpa. (break)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He, Rāmeśvara told me last night, is completely against these so-called religious movements like our, and he has written personal letters to the parents of all the people who have joined, all those who would write to him, that these types of movements should be stopped.

Prabhupāda: The young men should form another party, all the American young men.

Haṁsadūta: Viṣṇu party.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Viṣṇu party. Yes. Now they should take in politics.

Haṁsadūta: You wrote in your Eighth Canto, there are always two parties: the Viṣṇu party and the demons' party.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If they're forming demons' party, let them . . .

Haṁsadūta: Form a Viṣṇu party.

Prabhupāda: That, ah, the fight between the Viṣṇu party and the demon party is always going on.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Well they could never stop it, I mean. They could just make some difficulty, that's all.

Prabhupāda: No. It is in the hands of the young men. It is not possible for them to stop it. If it had been a sentiment of some retired, just like other thing, that Vivekananda's, all these old fools and rascals, they assemble and meditate. It is not that. They are active. It is not so-called meditation, and snoring, (makes snoring sound) meditating. It is not that. I have seen, all these rascals go, yogīs, they prescribe meditation, and meditation means sleeping and snoring, that's all. It is not that movement. We are sending, inducing, "Come, sell books." It is no question of meditation. Cheating himself and cheating others. What he will meditate? And he requires so many primary rules and regulations before meditating, not that . . . in the Bhagavad-gītā, for meditation it is clearly stated one should not close the eyes. As soon as you close the eyes and meditate, you will sleep. Immediately. It is . . . they should be half closed, and concentrate your eyesight on the top of the nose. That is meditation. Not that closing and snoring and "huh." Anyway, these rascals, they are going on. Who cares for the genuine thing? Nobody cares. Dharma . . . (indistinct) . . . that "I am your guru, I have followers," dharma principle, but he does not know anything. This is going on. Neither the rascal guru knows, neither his disciple knows. This is the position. Everywhere this is going on. All bluff. This very word used, a dharma . . . (indistinct) . . . get a plaque, that "I am . . . (indistinct) . . ." That's all. And hang it, that's all, and do nothing, that's all. "I do not know nothing, but I have the plaque," that's all. All these gurus, all these chelas are doing that. This Anandamayi, Sai Baba, this, that, so many. What do they know?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That is why these leaders are getting confused, so many bogus people are there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That should . . . action should be there. If we come out successful in this, how you say, messing, and that will be very good. It is called that, messing?

Hari-śauri: Mixing.

Haṁsadūta: Mixing.

Prabhupāda: Not mixing.

Hari-śauri: Punching together.

Prabhupāda: Messing, that what is called? Chaduni? What is called?

Devotee: Sifting?

Prabhupāda: Sifting, yes. (coughing) It is called not messing also? Hmm. Sifting high grains from the small.

Devotees: Yes. Hmm. Hmm.

Prabhupāda: The smaller grains, they fall down.

Haṁsadūta: Oh, straining.

Prabhupāda: Straining, yes. Straining, yes, straining. If the straining process, no, that's nice.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they can get rid of all the bad ones just like in the rice field. The good ones . . . (indistinct) . . . every newspaper in America is covering us, Rāmeśvara said.

Prabhupāda: Good advertisement. I was seeing that. And every page Kṛṣṇa, there is Kṛṣṇa. Every page there is Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, that happened in Germany. I told them, "It is very good that Hare Kṛṣṇa." . . . (indistinct) . . . Hare Kṛṣṇa. (laughing) We are known as Kṛṣṇas. They call us Kṛṣṇas. You put yourselves "Kṛṣṇians." They are Christians and we are Kṛṣṇians. And actually from Kṛṣṇian, the "Christian" has come. Yes. Kṛṣṇa, ah, Christo, there is a word, Greek word, and Christo is broken spelling of Kṛṣṇa. In India we say one is . . . one name say is Kṛṣṇa, at least in Bengali we say Kṛṣṭa. Kṛṣṭa. This Kṛṣṭa word is from Kṛṣṇa. And from Kṛṣṭa, Christ has come. This is original root, Kṛṣṇa. So we have to fight. Here is a chance for fighting, so why they're afraid?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we just have to work hard on getting everything coordinated.

Prabhupāda: You have to fight, keeping our principles strictly. Yuddhyasva mām anusmara (BG 8.7). We should not be afraid to fight. And it is . . . there are Indians . . . it is not the Indians cooperating. Now Indians and Americans should join for fighting on behalf of Kṛṣṇa. Then it will be successful. How they can say it is not genuine movement? Other so-called yogīs, svāmīs, they may be rascal, but this is not the rascaldom. It is . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They are saying . . . they are saying we are not Hindus.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They are saying this is not Hinduism.

Prabhupāda: Hindus . . . we are Kṛṣṇian. It they, if . . .

Haṁsadūta: Kṛṣṇans.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa, in the dictionary it is said that Hindu God, but we are claiming, that Kṛṣṇian, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa conscious. Kṛṣṇa conscious means "Godder than the Hindus." When you say we are not Hindu, that we are not restricted with the Hindi community. That is the meaning. Because Kṛṣṇa says, "I am for everyone." So why should we be restricted to the Hindi community? Kṛṣṇa says sarva yoniṣu, "In all forms of life, I am the seed giving father." Why He should be simply Hindu? This point should be stressed. Sarva yoni means eighty-four million . . . eighty, eighty, 8,400,000s, all forms. Kṛṣṇa is for all of them. We therefore, why Kṛṣṇa should be restricted to the Hindu community? Hindus are included, but Kṛṣṇa is not restricted to Hindus. Kṛṣṇa's picture, that Bāla Gopāla, He's embracing the calves. Kṛṣṇa does not embrace only the gopīs, He's embracing the calves also. That is Kṛṣṇa. He's equal to everyone. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Pāpa-yonayaḥ, so many low-grade forms of life, they're also His . . . devotees are part and parcel. Mamaivāṁśo jī . . . (BG 15.7). Quote this: Kṛṣṇa is not restricted to the Hindu. We say, "We are not Hindu," means we are not . . . we embrace everyone. We are not restricted to the Hindus. The so-called Christians, so-called Muhammadans, they . . . we embrace everyone.

And actually we are doing that. Why should we simply be compact within the limitation of Hindus? That is not our purpose. Then we would not have come to Western countries. We actually spreading universal brotherhood. Kṛṣṇa is the father and everyone our brother. We are claiming all our fallen brothers to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is our movement. Caitanya Mahāprabhu: pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126). This is our movement. Why you should be restricted to the India, and amongst the Hindus? Our Gods, They asked that "Go, go," bhārata bhūmite: you have taken birth in India, that's all right, make your life successful and go abroad, para upakāra. Janma sārthaka kori koro para-upakāra. This is our mission. We have come to you to make you civilized. This is our mission. And the best men of your country they are recommending. All the learned circle, they are coming. How can you defy us? If you have got brain . . . you are trying to brainwash. Actually you have no brain to . . . (indistinct) . . . how important it is, this movement. You are trying to brainwash. We are not brainwashing. We are giving you good brain. That is our mission, that you are so dull-headed we have come to give you good brain. Su-medhasaḥ. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prayair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ (SB 11.5.32). We have come to make you intelligent. Receive us well, for your benefit. Tell them like that. Bring one court case, and I shall sit . . . go and sleep there, and expose them, item by item. I know my case is strong.

Hari-śauri: It's the strongest.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) Yes. I will speak. If you cannot speak, I shall go and speak.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There are a few Indians, I was just thinking, in America who are right at the top of the American scientific research. There is one Dr. Khorana, he won the Nobel Prize, and there are a few others who are right at the top of the . . .

Prabhupāda: Where he is? Where he is?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: All in America. They're at the top of the US space program. I think we should also approach these people who are . . .

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) . . . Punjabis.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He won the Nobel Prize, you know. But I just remembered that there are few other Indians who are at the top of the US space program, so if we approach them . . .

Prabhupāda: Now our this Svarūpa Dāmodara and others, they can also come.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We should approach all these people and get them to take part in the petition.

Prabhupāda: That Bhavan's Journal, he did not dare to publish my statement. Everyone is combined to kill Kṛṣṇa. Everyone, all over the world. God . . . "There is no God," the scientists, these philosophers, the politicians—everyone. This is the only movement talking of God. Nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādī. Everywhere, impersonalists and zero: "There is no God." The zero-vādīs, they are little frank, but these rascals, nirviśeṣavādīs, "God has no head, no tail," they are dangerous. Zero-vādīs, they call Him zero, that's all right. That is . . . we can understand, they admit. But these rascals, zero . . . nirviśeṣavādīs, "Yes, there is God, but He has no head, He has no tail, He has no hand, He has no leg." Then what He has? They are greatest cheater, more dangerous than the śūnyavādīs. That is the version of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Vedinām mayima bhogda hoila nāstik, vedāśraya nāstikavāda bhogda ki hodi. These Buddhists, they do not care for the Vedic injunction, we can understand. But these Śankarites, they take shelter of the Vedas and they say: "There is no form of God." And that is being followed, the so-called Hindus. All the invitees in that meeting, Bajaj meeting, they are all nirviśeṣvādī.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Impersonalists.

Prabhupāda: All impersonal.

Jagadīśa: That's why there may be a problem in getting Indian people to support our movement.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Jagadīśa: If there is any trouble in getting Indians . . .

Prabhupāda: No, we don't care for Indians and Europeans. We care for Kṛṣṇa, that's all. I didn't care for anyone. I simply care for Kṛṣṇa, that's all. And my Guru Mahārāja, that's all. I went to your country not supported by Indians and Europeans. I went on the order of my Guru Mahārāja and under the shelter of Kṛṣṇa's protection, that's all. That is wanted. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). We want two favors: one from guru, one from Kṛṣṇa. That's all. We don't want anyone's favor. So you have to fight. You cannot fight immaterialists. Kṛṣṇa never said, "Arjuna, oh, you are My devotee, you sit down and sleep, I shall take care of . . ." He never said that. (laughs) So if you take that position, "We are devotees, nonviolent, and let us sleep," that is not . . . fight, with all the resources that we have got. That is wanted. That you cannot stop. (loud voices in background) They are coming, going, how you can stop? People, public, they are coming, going here.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They all want to come and have a look at the guesthouse.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. So prepare for fight. Don't be afraid. Arjuna, they were five brothers, and the other party, one hundred brothers. Therefore Dhṛtarāṣṭra was confident, that "What are these five brothers without any help? We have ruined them. They were in the forest for thirteen years, lost all connection, no kingdom. I have got government in hand, and my sons are . . . hundred sons, and we are well equipped. How . . .?" Therefore the . . . bring that Bhagavad-gītā, dṛṣṭvā tu pāṇḍavāṇīkam (BG 1.2).

Jagadīśa: Dṛṣṭvā tu pāṇḍavāṇīkaṁ vyūḍhaṁ duryodhanas tadā.

Akṣayānanda:

dṛṣṭvā tu pāṇḍavāṇīkaṁ

vyūḍhaṁ duryodhanas tadā . . .

(BG 1.2)

Prabhupāda: If someone wants to come, let him come.

Akṣayānanda: Ācāryam . . .

Prabhupāda: Why you have refused him? Let him come.

Akṣayānanda: Ācāryam upasaṅgamya rājā vacanam abravīt (BG 1.2).

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is the translation?

Akṣayānanda: "Sañjaya said, 'O King, after looking over the army gathered by the sons of Pāṇḍu, King Duryodhana went to his teacher and began to speak the following words.' "

Prabhupāda: Aiye, aiye. (Please come, please come.) (guests arrive) (break) Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is to preach. So you join us. Why should you be limited within Vṛndāvana? The people are taking this, and there is . . . now they are feeling the strength. The whole world is now combining against this movement. That means they are feeling the strength. Certainly it is not credit.

Indian man: Certainly.

Prabhupāda: Don't say "certainly." You must come forward to fight. If you simply sit down in Vṛndāvana, then Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is not being carried. He says, pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126), that is His mission. So this attempt has been made in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, so why other parties, they should sit down and simply . . .? I am a teeny person, single-handed we shall fight. Why you should see the fun and do not fight? That I am asking you. I shall fight, and you shall see the fun.

Indian man: No, no.

Prabhupāda: What is this? Now, you appear to be educated gentlemen, you combine, all the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava gosvāmīs, and come with me to fight, because there is a world fight now. They are threatened. Their whole civilization is threatened by this movement. That is the position now. Whole Europe and America, they are combining. They are intelligent person, they see that this movement is spreading like epidemic. They have admitted, some of their party, "If this movement is allowed to advance, then some day they will take our government." They have expressed that feeling. And now they are preparing to fight out. These . . . all these fathers of these young men, they are combining together to charge me that I am kidnapping their boys. So it is a serious situation. You should not see simply the fun and claim to belong to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Now you should come out to fight. Am I wrong or right?

Indian man: You are right.

Prabhupāda: Then do that. Hold a meeting among the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas here, and I will explain the position. Now we should combine together and fight. As soon as you introduce something strong, there will be fight. There will be fight. Even Kṛṣṇa had to see the fight, Kurukṣetra. Dharmakṣetre kurukṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). The fight must be there, yuyutsavaḥ. So if you belong to Caitanya Mahāprabhu's party, then you should come out to fight. Whatever done is done, and it is done single-handed. Nobody has helped me, even not my Godbrothers. These American boys, they have helped me. They understood the philosophy and they helped me. Rather, they are criticizing that I am making these American boys sannyāsī and giving them sacred thread. They are criticizing. What is your opinion?

Indian man: I don't think that's a . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: They criticize me. They do not recognize this temple as a Vaiṣṇava temple. They say angrej temple. (laughter)

Indian man: (laughs) . . . (indistinct) . . . there will be whole integration towards Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Jīvera 'svarūpa (CC Madhya 20.108-109). Why they criticize? We are trying that. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Why the pāpa-yonis should be neglected? So this thing have been done single-handed, now you should come forward, all, combine together. Ye aap log acchi tarah se sochiye aur combined hoiye, aaiye hamare saath me. (You people think nicely and combine together, come along with me.) There is a great fight. We are just planning how to fight. Simply katha vachak hone se kya hoga, pet palan ho sakta hai, isme kuch vishesh kaam nahi hai. (What is the use of just being a preacher? You can earn for your stomach, but there is nothing special in this.) Now when there is fight, it requires real strength. Now their fight is confronting us because they are feeling the strength. Their whole civilization is threatened. We are recommending no illicit sex, no intoxication, no gambling and no meat-eating. But this is the basic principle of modern civilization. So the foundation is threatened. Theoretically they are taking that "If these four things are stopped, then where is our civilization? Where we stand?" Meat-eating, they have all over the world millions of slaughterhouse. So if these millions of slaughterhouse is stopped, then where they stand? They are threatened like that.

Indian man: Their whole set-up, their whole economy is being threatened.

Prabhupāda: The millions of liquor manufacturers, breweries, millions of gambling houses, so . . . cigarette factories. So theoretically, if this movement is successful, then whole civilization is finished. So they are now looking . . . because these young men have taken seriously, so they are threatened and they are making a strong party to fight with us. They cannot safely say that against this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement they are threatening a charge against my movement or me that I am kidnapping young men. That is their threatening. I am not kidnapping. I am not going to their house to kidnap. They are coming to us. Ye sab position hai. Aaplog sab Vrndavana me gosai log sab hain, humko thoda sa help kijiye. (This is the position. You all in Vṛndāvana, there are Goswamis also there, help me a little.)

kṛṣṇa-kīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī

dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau priya-karau nirmatsarau pūjitau

śrī-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau . . .

The gosvāmīs, they are śrī-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau. Now prove. They are descendants. Now prove—come forward. Śrī-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau. Simply sitting at home. And in Bengal there is Nityānanda-vaṁśa. What is Nityānanda-vaṁśa? Nityānanda went forward before Jagāi-Mādhāi and He was hurt. Blood came out. Where is that Nityānanda-vaṁśa? Fight between Jagāi-Mādhāi and Nityānanda . . . that is Nityānanda-vaṁśa, simply taking advantage of coming from Nityānanda-vaṁśa, "I have become guru. Give me your money," and sit down. "Let me enjoy life with my wife and children." That kind of Nityānanda-vaṁśa will not help. Come forward to fight. With this fighting is now here. (aside) You can show the newspaper clipping. Bahut big argument ho raha hai. (A big argument is going on to fight this.) First of all they thought that so many svāmīs and yogīs come, all rascals, they stay for some time and go away. Even Vivekananda. (laughter) So this is not a bogus movement, it is taking stand. So now they are threatened and they are combining together, especially the Christian . . . ye dekhiye kitna baseless hai accusation. Just see how baseless is their accusation. But in each heading there is "Kṛṣṇa." (break) . . . bring various charges against our . . .

Devotee: Mind control, brainwashing.

Prabhupāda: You should go to see Viśvambhara Goswami also. Panch gavya usme cow mutra diya jata hai, to usi ko prominence de raha hai udhar milk hai usko nahi, ye sabse . . . aur sab gavya chod diya, urine ka taste hai ye sab chal raha hai. ye sab bada fight hai aap log aiye, sahyog kijiye. Aaplog jo actual battlefield me jana chahte hain usko hum leke jayenge. Aaplog tayyar hoiye ladai karne ke liye. Aisi baat nahi hai ki hum nahi ja sakte, wo sab hum . . . aaplog jo bheed hai wo sab tayyar hoiye. (In the pancha gavya, cow urine is added, so prominence is being given for that. There is milk from cows, they are not bothered by all this . . . all the other products from cows they have ignored, there is the taste of urine. All this is going on. This is a big fight, you people come and support us. Those of you who want to go to the actual battlefield, we will take you all. You all be prepared to fight. It is not that we cannot go, all that we . . . you as a crowd be prepared.) This is fortunate that you have come in this moment. So I'll give you this inspiration. Now combine together all Vṛndāvana gosvāmīs. Kṛṣṇa cult is for everyone, either Gauḍīya or Rāmānuja or everyone. Now all of you should come forward. That you do. Admitting kijiye, ye sab ho raha hai Krishna conscious movement ko cut down karne ke liye sab combine ho rahe hain. aap kya chahte hain ki hum udhar defeat ho karke vapas laut ke aaye. To aaplog thoda help kijiye. (You admit that all this is going on, they are trying to cut down the Kṛṣṇa conscious movement and they are all combining. What do you want, that we are defeated there and return back? So you people must help.) They are concerned with the Kṛṣṇa cult. Kṛṣṇa cult means all the ācāryas, all the ācāryas, either Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka or anyone, they should combine together. Abhi ghar me baith kar kaam nahi chalega. hamara guru maharaj decide kiya, wo bahut dheet hai kehte hain (Now sitting at home we cannot achieve anything. My Guru Maharaja decided, he is very stubborn, it is said.) Mana! Tumi kiser vaishnav? Pratisthar tare nirjaner ghare tava harinam kebol kaitav. (Mind, what kind of devotee are you? For cheap adoration you are sitting in one solitary room and chanting, is simply cheating.) Do you understand Bengali? (Humare vaishnav hain kahin bahar nahi jate hain aur ghar baithkarke Haridas Thakur ka nakal karte hain. (Our Vaisnavas are there, they don't go out anywhere, and they sit at home and imitate Haridas Thakur.) (aside) Why you are talking? It is not very important. It is for him. It is a very bad habit. So we should be very alert in this point. All the Vaiṣṇavas of different sampradāyas, especially Gauḍīya sampradāya, you should come forward to fight this. They are gathering their strength. We should gather our strength. Fight. Kṛṣṇa never said that "Don't fight." Never said, Arjuna that, "You are My devotee, you don't fight. You are very good gentleman, nonviolent, and I shall do everything for you." Never said that. Kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samu . . . (BG 2.2) Viṣame samupasthitam. "Now there is a great dangerous fight, why you are saying like a nonsense," anārya-juṣṭam, "like non-Aryan?" To ye fight mauzood hai dekhiye, have prasadam. to aaplog sab aiye, hum to akele hain. (So this fight is present, have prasadam. So you people come together, I am all alone.)

This fight is another good news, that they are feeling the strength. Otherwise they would not have prepared to fight. Formerly they were thinking that so many svāmīs and yogīs come, come and go. But now they are feeling the strength, they charging that their young men are being kidnapped. It is strong party. And these boys, they have taken to Vaiṣṇava principles, their parents have tried to take them back and induce them to eat meat and according . . . they deny. This is also tried. I have got many disciples, they are coming out very rich family, rich father. So one of the fathers called his son that "I am old man. The business is dwindling. You come and take . . ." So I told him that, "You go. Why not take your father's business and use it for Kṛṣṇa?" So he went, on my order. The father wanted him to eat meat. So he denied, that "I cannot do that. I can help in your business, but I cannot accept your way of life. That is not possible." Then the father saw, "Then he is lost, useless. If he's not adopting our life . . ." So there, that one father; now the all fathers have combined, that "Our children are now lost. They do not come home, what to speak of adopting again our way of life." They cannot accept the way of life, meat-eating and . . . that is not possible. That they're finding dangerous. And other movement they join and they come back. They remain what they are. Simply they say that, "I belong to this grouping." But our is different. Not only he belongs to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, but a different type of life. (reads something) Hmm. Give it. They have taken . . . (indistinct) . . . there are many, many groups like that.

Hari-śauri: This is New York.

Prabhupāda: Chanting in the street. Isko kuch upay kijiye. (Find some solution for this.) What do you want to do? Propose. Hold a meeting of all the Gosvāmīs. You take the leading part. Go to Viśvanātha Goswami. If you like, he can go with you to see others, "This is the position. You come and join." What do they say?

Indian man: I . . . (indistinct) . . . contacted them, call a meeting.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Immediately.

Indian man: How long you are staying here?

Prabhupāda: I will stay if you hold immediately meeting in this temple. We have got enough space here. First of all you see some leading gosvāmī, and then you chalk out how to fight. All the sampra . . . now it is question of Kṛṣṇa cult, it is not only Gauḍīya. So take gosvāmīs, some of you, and meet all the leaders and hold a meeting, immediately arrange. And explain the whole situation. Let us combine. And those who are educated, they should go. We shall arrange for their all expenditure. It doesn't matter. Fight. "This is a genuine cult. If you discriminate, that is discrimination against religion, cult. We are accepting everyone, but it is a genuine cult. You also Christian, you accept anyone; why you say it is not genuine?" That we have to prove. There the Hindus and Indians who are there, they will also join. So immediately hold a meeting. It is very serious situation. Aap leading part lijiye. Aur jo goswami hain, aur sab jo jo hain sab combine hoke chaliye sab apko hum leke jayenge. (You take the leading part. And the Goswamis and others, who are all combined and come with us, we shall take all of you.) This is genuine movement. Why the American government should be discriminating against a genuine religious sect, Kṛṣṇa? Make this company. (aside) Prasāda, give him prasāda. Very seriously deliberate. And you go with him. We have got any car?

Hari-śauri: Not right now. Not at the present moment. (aside) Haṁsadūta's van here?

Prabhupāda: Where our car has gone?

Akṣayānanda: Bareilly. They have program in Bareilly.

Prabhupāda: When?

Akṣayānanda: Two days ago they went.

Prabhupāda: No, when the program is?

Akṣayānanda: Now it's going on.

Prabhupāda: Going on.

Akṣayānanda: Mmm.

Prabhupāda: When they will come back?

Akṣayānanda: About one week, one and a half weeks.

Prabhupāda: So we can ask them to come back. The car will be required both here and there.

Akṣayānanda: Okay. That's easy enough. I can do it.

Prabhupāda: Mmm. Or any other car available?

Hari-śauri: (indistinct) . . . Krishna Chand.

Akṣayānanda: No, he doesn't have one.

Prabhupāda: No, Viśvan . . . there is always car.

Hari-śauri: We have the motorcycle.

Akṣayānanda: We can arrange elsewhere. It's okay.

Prabhupāda: Hah. So(to sab se miliye. (meet everyone.) He will go with you, immediately. Meeting arrange kijiye. (Arrange the meeting.) Thank you very much.

(pause)

Prabhupāda: Combine together in Vṛndāvana. Fight . . . without fight where is life? If there is no fighting, then what is that life? That is dead stone. Fight must be there. Kṛṣṇa's whole life is fighting from the very birth. His father carried Him to Gokula where He is still living, and He fell down from the Yamunā and . . . just born, fighting began. Just born. And at Yaśodāmayī's house, Nanda Mahārāja's house, so many demons daily coming—Śakaṭāsura, Aghāsura, Bakāsura, Pūtanā, so on, so on, so on; ultimately Kaṁsa, when He was young boy. Vṛndāvana, so many asuras came. You have seen the pictures? Kṛṣṇa is fighting with the horse demon, with the bull . . . (indistinct) . . . fighting. If Kṛṣṇa is fighting, why not Kṛṣṇa consciousness the same thing? You cannot expect peaceful life. No, there must be fighting, then think, "That is Kṛṣṇa's presence, His fight." So this fighting means they're feeling the presence of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Otherwise why they're arranging fight? Had it been an insignificant thing, there was no question of fighting. Mosha marte kaman daga. (Bringing a cannon to kill a mosquito.) to The gun, Howitzer gun? What is that? German, some gun they will go from this part of . . . this side of English Channel to other. Calais, the other side Calais?

Devotees: Calais.

Hari-śauri: Calais in France.

Prabhupāda: Calais in France. So from France to other side English Channel, London, that's all right.

Devotee: Artillery guns?

Prabhupāda: Yes, they . . . Hitler invented. The gun will be fired from this side.

Hari-śauri: Big, huge gun.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this gun is required not for killing a mosquito. (laughter) Big enemy. So they are preparing this big gun, and not the mosquito and this Mahesh Yogi and this yogī. You see? They are mosquitoes. For them they don't require any gun. So for big enemy, big gun, you see. They are preparing big gun, that means Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is big enemy. It is not mosquito. So you remain a big enemy, you don't become a mosquito. That is wanted. Immediately arrange this meeting here. Call all the Vaiṣṇavas, all. Apnader je party ache tader kichu bolun, Nimbarka sampradaya ke . . . nimbarka sampradaya tader gaudiyar sampradayer opor ekta dwesh ache. Janen ota? Khobor rakhen na? Amra je Caitanya Mahaprabhuke bhagavan boli ora ota swikar kore na. (Whatever parties you have, tell them something. To the Nimbarka sampradāya . . . Nimbarka sampradāya has envy on Gaudiya sampradaya. Do you know? You are not updated? They can’t accept that we call Caitanya Mahāprabhu as the Supreme Lord.)

Indian man: Ekbar shunechi santa das babaji korten, r bakito keu na. (I heard once that Santa das babaji does, but not others.)

Prabhupāda: Na sobai kore. Ora oi nie gaudiya vaisnavder criticize kore. Amrau kori je manushke bhagavan bolar jonno, eta kono aschorjer bishoy na. Jemon amra Ramkrishnake criticize kori je ekta manushke ekta bhagavan koye dilo. Sei hisebe ora Caitanya Mahaprabhukeu mone kore manush. Manushke bhagavan eta kono sampraday swikar korbena. Ora bole Caitanya Mahaprabhu manush . . . (indistinct) . . . (No, all of them. They criticize the Gaudiya Vaisnavas in this regard. We also criticize, this is not something strange. We do it because people consider the common man as the Supreme Lord. For example we criticize Ramakrishna, that they made a human being as the Supreme Lord. So they also think of Caitanya Mahāprabhu as a human being. No sampradāya will accept a human being as God. They say Caitanya Mahāprabhu was a human being . . . (indistinct) . . .) so far Kṛṣṇa is concerned, everyone. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)