770108 - Conversation D - Bombay

Conversations by Date, 1977

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

770108R4-BOMBAY - January 08, 1977 - 28:08 Minutes

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) . . . (break) India is still for monarchy, not for democracy. They would like. If they get ideal king, they'll accept it. So if you can, and if she's serious, let her become ideal. The people will worship him like God. But she must be sincere. It is a fact. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā (SB 5.18.12). She must be a pure devotee, then everything will . . . let her son become pure devotee . . . become a devotee, and everything is all right. She has respect for our movement. That's a fact. And Home Member also. Otherwise so much propaganda against us, they would have taken some steps. They can take any steps they like. They are in power.

Girirāja: That's true.

Prabhupāda: If I am in power, give the dog a bad name and hang it. Who is going to check me? The same story, the lion and the lamb. No? A lion was drinking water this side, and one lamb was drinking water that side. So the lion saw it is very nice food. So he wanted to kill with some plea, "Oh, you are making my water muddy." "Sir, I am here so far. How I can make your water muddy?" (laughs) In this way he picked up some quarrel and jumped over. So he's lion and he's a lamb, so it is no difficult for the lion to kill a lamb under some plea. "Might is right." There has been so much propaganda and CIA, this Communist propaganda, this Blitz propaganda. In Bengal there was heavy propaganda against our . . .

Girirāja: Bhavānanda.

Prabhupāda: Bhavānanda. Nothing was done.

Girirāja: Yes. It's true.

Prabhupāda: And Lalitā says that, "I know Swāmījī is very exalted. I am simply afraid . . . he has so many American disciples. If some of them do something wrong, then that will be very bad thing for him." Lalitā was telling me like that. But what can I do? I will, "Come anyone." Who is bad, who is good I do not know. But I know even bad man comes, he becomes a good man. That I know. So who will come? How can I discriminate who is bad or who is good?

Girirāja: Lord Caitanya also welcomed.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Girirāja: Lord Caitanya welcomed everyone.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Lord Caitanya's movement is pāpī tāpī yata chilo hari-nāme uddharilo. All sinful men, all suffering humanity, simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, they were . . . pāpī tāpī yata chilo hari-nāme uddharilo (Hari Hari Biphale). How it is possible? Tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi. You see the Jagāi-Mādhāi, how they became Vaiṣṇava. This is Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura's song. (pause) So you have to ask anything?

Pradyumna: Just one thing. What does . . . it said in a text in just one wife—about that Jarāsandha. Jarāsandha. Actually, the story in Mahābhārata is that one half came from one wife and another half came from another.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pradyumna: So that way. And it said:

anyasyām api bhāryāyāṁ

śakale dve bṛhadrathāt

ye mātrā bahir utsṛṣṭe

jarayā cābhisandhite

(SB 9.22.8)

And they're joined by sundite, by Jarā. Jīva jīveti krīḍantyā jarāsandho 'bhavat sutaḥ. So jīva jīva? Become . . .

Prabhupāda: Become alive.

Pradyumna: Become alive.

Prabhupāda: Jīva. Become alive.

Pradyumna: You had here, "O living entity, just be alive"?

Prabhupāda: Jīva, addressing jīvete. "Be alive."

Pradyumna: And kridantyā. "Playing like that"?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Playing, joining. "Get . . . be alive, be alive." Like that.

Hari-śauri: Is that Jarāsandha?

Pradyumna: Then translation, "In the womb of two other wives, two parts were begotten from Bṛhadratha. The mothers, seeing such parts, rejected them. Later on, one she-demon by the name Jarā joined the parts." Then sounded like "Engaged"?

Prabhupāda: Playfully.

Pradyumna: Playfully? "Joined the parts playfully"?

Prabhupāda: Joining playfully.

Pradyumna: Then she said, jīva jīva?

Prabhupāda: "Get into life! Get into life!"

Pradyumna: "And having been joined by Jarā in this way . . ." "In this way, having been joined by Jarā, the son Jarāsandha was born. And by joining the parts playfully, saying, 'Get into life.' "

Prabhupāda: She found two parts. Generally, just like play in our childhood some doll is broken. So we used to put the head again. (laughs)

Pradyumna: Ah.

Prabhupāda: So similarly, the head is there: "Join, join! You live! You live!" Like that. You had no opportunity to play like that? Every . . .

Girirāja: Yes. Every child.

Prabhupāda: If some dish is broken, we used to try to join it. That is child's play.

Pradyumna: And the thing about Śukadeva Gosvāmī, that he was actually a different . . . so, I want to say that chāyā-śuka. He was different from that other . . . brahmacārī Śukadeva Gosvāmī, speaker of Bhāgavata, was different from the householder.

Prabhupāda: What is the word?

Pradyumna: It said in the purport, chāyā-śuka. So you said that is like imitation Śuka, duplicate Śukadeva.

Prabhupāda: Oh, chāyā-śuka. Yes. Duplicate. Yes. (pause) So it is up to date?

Pradyumna: Just about. I just have one little . . .

Prabhupāda: I am not working nowadays. Still it is not up to date?

Pradyumna: I just have to go over a few things, then I'm sending out. Just this last chapter.

Prabhupāda: I'm doing very little. Anyway . . .

Pradyumna: No, it's just this last chapter.

Prabhupāda: I am in the Twenty-second Chapter.

Pradyumna: Yes. You're in Twenty-second Chapter. Twenty-first I'm going to send out.

Prabhupāda: And two chapters more will finish Ninth Canto.

Hari-śauri: Hmm. You did quite a bit last night.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If people actually taking like that, then there will be a revolution in the Western countries.

Hari-śauri: I don't see how they can stop it.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Hari-śauri: They can't stop it.

Prabhupāda: Huge quantity selling. Either Kṛṣṇa's desire . . . it is Kṛṣṇa's desire. Otherwise a religious book which is not their religion, Bhāgavatam, Indian. So somehow or other it is being distributed, and they say it is spreading like . . .

Girirāja: Epidemic.

Prabhupāda: Epidemic. (laughs) So it is a kind of revolution.

Hari-śauri: And it's not just in one place. It's every country our men have been to.

Prabhupāda: Every country. Whole Europe and America. What business they have got to purchase our books in Christmas? They actually continue. They have no business, but they are purchasing. Huge quantity. I never expec . . . dreamed even (laughs) that my books would be sold in large quantity.

Hari-śauri: They sold over one million pounds' worth of books.

Prabhupāda: Bon Mahārāja published a portion of the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu—eleven hundred books. Still lying for the last ten years.

Hari-śauri: Bon Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And he's the rectum of such a big institute. (laughs) He can pass stool very nice. (laughter) There was no second printing. And so many scholars, Maitra, M.A. Ph.D, DDLit and so on, so on, so on. Our Dr. Kapoor wrote some book. It was given to some Benarsi . . . (indistinct) . . . they first of all took it, then they refused, "No. We cannot publish." So . . . (indistinct)

Hari-śauri: They won't publish his books.

Prabhupāda: Who will take it? A philosophical textbook. There's nobody interested. Actually, there is no customer for philosophy nowadays.

Girirāja: No.

Hari-śauri: They can't . . . none of these men, they just don't seem to have any realized knowledge. They write things, but it's so dry that no one wants to read it; it's so distasteful. But when you read one of your books it's so full of life. I mean, it's just to the point. It exactly describes how everybody's living, how they're thinking, what the troubles and tribulations they're going through, how they can . . .

Prabhupāda: Somehow or other it is interesting.

Hari-śauri: Yes. It's so full of . . .

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Otherwise why people take it? When I was . . . I thought that, "I am giving my imagination. Who will take it? It is my imagination." Of course, with reference to the modern politics, sociology, everything. Whenever possible I touch.

Hari-śauri: But your preaching is so practical. These other men, when they speak, it just comes out . . . it's just not practical, or they don't know how to translate it into action.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I try to write. I explained in that verse, kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). I've touched all the points in the modern . . .

Pradyumna: It has a very nice purport.

Prabhupāda: Find out that. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). Parjanyaḥ . . .

Hari-śauri: Oh, I know it.

Prabhupāda: I've touched the slaughterhouse, brothel . . .

Hari-śauri: I just finished reading that Perfection of Yoga. It's so . . . it's an amazing book. Each chapter gradually leads more and more to the ultimate goal.

Prabhupāda: They were my beginning speeches in your country . . . in America. I was daily speaking in the evening. So Hayagrīva has edited. Hmm. What is the purport?

Pradyumna: "The basic principle of economic development is centered on land and cows."

Prabhupāda: That idea I'm still maintaining. Yes.

Pradyumna: "The necessities of human society are food grains, fruits, milk, minerals, clothing, wood, etc. One requires all these items to fulfill the material needs of the body. Certainly one does not require flesh and fish or iron tools and machinery. During the regime of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, all over the world there were regulated rainfalls. Rainfalls are not in the control of the human being. The heavenly king Indradeva is the controller of rains, and he is the servant of the Lord. When the Lord is obeyed by the king and the people under the king's administration, there are regulated rains from the horizon, and these rains are the causes of all varieties of production on the land. Not only do regulated rains help ample production of grains and fruits, but when they combine with astronomical influences there is ample production of valuable stones and pearls. Grains and vegetables can sumptuously feed a man and animals, and the fatty cow delivers enough milk to supply a man sumptuously with vigor and vitality."

Prabhupāda: Now Kīrtanānanda has sent so nice sweets.

Hari-śauri: And ghee.

Prabhupāda: You have given something all other devotees?

Hari-śauri: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: Give him some.

Hari-śauri: Pālikā hid them somewhere. I don't know where they are. Pālikā hid them away so no one would take them. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: All right then. Preparing first class.

Hari-śauri: Kulādri has a box.

Prabhupāda: First class. And they have got enough milk. When I went there, all nice milk preparation. Ghee, sweet rice, these sweets. Ample. All of variety. And they have ghee, then prepare kachorī, samosā. Such nice thing. And how friendly the cows—just like family members. And they're giving more milk economically. That's practical. More milk. Then?

Pradyumna: "If there is enough milk, enough grains, enough fruit, enough cotton, enough silk, and enough jewels, then why do the people need cinemas, houses of prostitution, slaughterhouses, etc? What is the need of an artificial luxurious life of cinema, cars, radio, flesh, and hotels? Has this civilization produced anything but quarreling, individually and nationally? Has this civilization enhanced the cause of equality and fraternity by sending thousands of men into a hellish factory and warfields at the whims of a particular man? It is said here that the cows used to moisten the pasturing land with milk." It's nice. You compare the warfield and the factory. I think people appreciate that. You compare the factory with the warfield.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So whatever thought comes to me, I discuss as far as possible. Why these things are there? Therefore I want to organize this farm project. Let there be ideal. And it is becoming ideal in America. People are coming even from the school, college, they are coming to see New Vrindaban. And there was section where our enemies, they are not disturbing. So they are appreciating. Still we are not thoroughly organized, but still they're appreciating. They will appreciate. One day will come they will appreciate. And other parents, as they come and thank me, "Swāmījī, it is our great fortune that . . ." Many parents came when I was in Los Angeles.

Hari-śauri: Yes. That's becoming more organized now. They have a Parents for Krishna group now.

Prabhupāda: Any sane man will appreciate. Why this father, mother, came to congratulate me, "Swāmījī, you have done so much"? So it is Kṛṣṇa's desire that everyone be happy by taking Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then?

Pradyumna: "It is said here that the cows used to moisten the pasturing land with milk because their milk bags were fatty and the animals were joyful. Do they not require, therefore, proper protection for a joyful life by being fed with a sufficient quantity of grass in the field? Why should men kill cows for their selfish purposes? Why should men not be satisfied with grains, fruits and milk, which combined together can produce hundreds and thousands of palatable dishes? Why are there slaughterhouses all over the world to kill innocent animals? Mahārāja Parīkṣit, grandson of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, while touring his vast kingdom, saw a black man attempting to kill a cow. The king at once arrested the butcher and chastised him sufficiently. Should not a king or executive head protect the lives of the poor animals who are unable to defend themselves? Is this humanity? Are not the animals of a country citizens also? Then why are they allowed to be butchered in organized slaughterhouses? Are these the signs of equality, fraternity and nonviolence? Therefore, in contrast with the modern advanced, civilized form of government, an autocracy like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's is by far superior to a so-called democracy in which animals are killed and a man less than an animal is allowed to cast votes for another less-than-animal man."

Prabhupāda: That's all. (laughing) We have said. (pause) You can do one thing. We have got nim tree?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Take . . . I think you have got nim leaf dried?

Hari-śauri: Not since we've been in India. We've been using fresh nim leaves.

Prabhupāda: You have got stock?

Hari-śauri: No. Not at the moment.

Prabhupāda: That nim, if not in bara form, if you make some tablet, round. Something sticky.

Hari-śauri: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Then I can take two pills in the morning. That will help. This nim . . . (indistinct) . . . and bara is very good. But you people say that . . . (laughs)

Hari-śauri: The ghee's not . . .

Prabhupāda: Ghee's not good, that I can understand. But without little ghee, we cannot eat at all.

Hari-śauri: There's no harm for a small amount. There's not much harm for . . .

Prabhupāda: We have to take very little.

Hari-śauri: Wouldn't it be better just to take some fresh leaf?

Prabhupāda: Fresh leaf, how can I chew it?

Hari-śauri: Too bitter. Hmm. I'll get some dried. I can dry some on the roof tomorrow.

Prabhupāda: Not dry. You have to take fresh leaf. But you have to make . . .

Hari-śauri: Just mash it. I can just mash it and make it, roll. That would be all right.

Prabhupāda: Or if you make two or three baras with nim, that is easy to take, and palatable. With chick pea flour, fresh nim leaf paste and equal quantity of chick pea flour. Just fry it.

Hari-śauri: Oh. Like those spinach pakorās.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Arundhatī was doing that in Vṛndāvana.

Hari-śauri: With nim leaf?

Prabhupāda: Yes. She was doing nice.

Hari-śauri: You would like those for breakfast?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is good for me. So if Arundhatī makes, she can come and tomorrow make one or two baras in the morning.

Hari-śauri: One or two. For your breakfast.

Prabhupāda: So you are keeping your health all right?

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Hari-śauri: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)