770419 - Conversation C - Bombay

Conversations by Date, 1977

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

770419R3-BOMBAY - April 19, 1977 - 46:49 Minutes

Prabhupāda: What you can do when a man dies? Can you save? So similarly, everyone is being handled by the laws of nature. Nobody can do anything, just puffed up, "We can do this plan." All these political leaders, they are simply wasting time. They cannot do anything. Indira promised, daridra hata, (remove poverty.) But now he is, she is daridra, poverty-stricken. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). These rascals, they challenging the material laws? Such a rascal? You are scientists, they are challenging. Are they not challenging?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, we challenge.

Prabhupāda: What kind of rascals they are, just imagine. Just like "I shall move the mountain with my head." Such rascal. And they are going on as scientist. You have to challenge them like that, that "You are all rascals for challenging the laws of nature." But from the very beginning I called them rascals.

Girirāja: You were right.

Prabhupāda: Little ABCD, and they are trying to challenge the laws of nature. Little learning dangerous. Alpa-vidyā bhayaṅkare. Just like in our Society. Some of them have learnt little Sanskrit—they have become scholar, Sanskrit scholar. They're reading only Sanskrit. Rascal cannot read anything, and they are wasting money, four hundred, five hundred, like that, "Sanskrit Department," dozen men. You were speaking. So I have stopped it. Unnecessary. I have talked with so many foreign Sanskrit scholars. They do not know anything. Still, they are passing as Sanskrit scholar.

Girirāja: This also you said many years ago.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I talked with one professor, Norman Brown or something like that. He does not know Sanskrit. He is in charge of the Sanskrit . . .

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Amogha-līlā Prabhu has arranged a press conference today.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. Talk with them scientifically.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. That is at three o'clock.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Where it will be?

Girirāja: In the city, at . . .

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Is it a hotel?

Girirāja: It's a vegetarian restaurant.

Prabhupāda: Never mind. Talk with them.

Girirāja: It's a popular place for press conferences.

Prabhupāda: So they know that the scientific . . .?

Girirāja: Oh, yeah, yeah. It's on the basis of science.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Girirāja: Scientific.

Prabhupāda: Now our commonsense reasoning, that there is children, there is mother—where is the father? We are laymen. Can you say, without father, the children is born?

Girirāja: No.

Prabhupāda: Can you say?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Impossible.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's not possible.

Prabhupāda: That's not possible. So those who are denying the existence of God, they are rascals, all fools. The grass is growing from the land, and grass is eaten by animals. In this way we are all children. And you say: "Motherland." That is a common saying, "mother's . . ." So mother is there. We are children. Who is the father? Reply this common sense.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There must be father.

Prabhupāda: There must be father. We are children, and the mother is named, so who is the father? What they will answer? There is no such law, that without father, mother has given birth. Where is that law, physical or anything?

Girirāja: There is none.

Prabhupāda: And we may be rascal; we do not know who is father. The father Himself says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4): "Here." We accept Kṛṣṇa. This is intelligence. The father is present. He says, ahaṁ bīja . . . the rascal is searching out: "There is no father." So immediately who denies the existence of God, he is a rascal. He is to be slapped only, with shoes. That is the only remedy. Anyone who denies the existence of God, he's a rascal. He should be properly treated with shoes and beaten.

Girirāja: That's true.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Mūrkhasya lakuṭauṣadhi When a person is fool number one, beat him. That's all. Ḍhol gavara . . . (A drum, a fool . . .) Tulasī dāsa has said, ḍhol gavara śūdra paśu nārī, ye saba śāsana ke adhikārī. (A drum, a fool, a low class man, an animal and a woman—all of them must be punished to keep them on the right path.) Ḍhol, drum, you have to bring it to the tune by beating, "tung, tung." Gavara. Gavara means fool person. Paśu, animal. Ḍhol, gavara, pa . . . (A drum, a fool, an animal,) śūdra, and nārī, woman. They should be punished to bring them into order. Ye saba śāsana ke adhikārī. (They should be punished to keep them on the right path.) Otherwise they will be spoiled. A barking dog, you cannot pacify him, "My dear dog, don't bark. It is disturb . . ." "No!" Ḍhol gobara śūdra paśu nārī, ei saba śāsana ke . . . so anyone who is denying the existence of God, he is a rascal number one and beat him with shoes. Bās. He is being beaten with shoes by nature.

Girirāja: By the laws of nature.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9), going on. Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). But they are so shameless, neither they do know what is going to happen. Some rascal the other day complained, "There are many orphans." The orphan means no father? Does orphan means he has no father? Orphan means he has father; the father does not take care. That's all. You cannot deny, "There is no father."

Girirāja: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: You put this question and answer amongst the scientists. "How can you deny the existence of God?" "I am not seeing." "And you see or not see; there must be father." I think this commonsense argument nobody can refute.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. (laughs) It is little . . . common sense, a little intelligence, and everything will be solved. They are obstinate.

Prabhupāda: That means rascal. Obstinate means rascal. Obstinate is not a sane person.

Girirāja: Actually they're animals.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So these animals, they are passing on as big scientist, philosopher, theologician, and so on, so on. We have to stop them. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). This is the qualification of a person who does not accept God: duṣkṛtina, narādhama, mūḍha, māyayāpahṛta-jñāna—although highly educated, no knowledge—āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ, simply atheist. So as Kṛṣṇa conscious leaders, we have to punish, chastise these rascals. They are demons.

Girirāja: Actually, it's . . . it's actually relishable to chastise them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) It is a pleasure sport. (to Bhakti-caru) So you come here. What is the news? What the, all these rascals saying? Newspaper means all the statement of rascals.

Bhakti-caru: "Earnest Plea to Nine Congress Chief Ministers."

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bhakti-caru: "Earnest Plea to Nine Congress Chief Ministers. Charan calls for early assembly elections. New Delhi, April 18th. The Union Home Minister, Mr. Charan Singh . . ."

Prabhupāda: Again election, as if election will change their quality. They remain . . . let them remain as rascal, and simply by election, in place of one rascal, another rascal will improve it. This is the . . . let them remain rascal, but get vote. So that is . . . that is described in Bhāgavatam, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). The population is śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra, and they are giving vote—another big paśu. That's all. This is going on. This is democracy. The voters are paśu, and he is selecting another big paśu. This is going on. The rascals, they do not know, "If instead of a tiger, we select one lion," then what is the difference? Simply name. The tiger was president. Now the lion is the president. And both of them—animals. Where is the man, human being? This is going on. And because they are paśu, śva-viḍ-varāha, they are happy, "Now there is lion. Now the tiger is driven away. Now there is lion." This is going on. Hmm? Am I right?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: This is the . . . that's all. Bhāgavata is siddhānta-kāraṇa, so correct, so accurate, and so nicely composed. Kim anyaiḥ śāstraiḥ. In the beginning there is kim anyaiḥ śāstraiḥ: "There is no more use of any other śāstra." Śrīmad-bhāgavate mahā-muni-kṛte kim anyaiḥ śāstraiḥ, nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalam idam (SB 1.1.3), kim anyaiḥ śāstraiḥ. Nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalam idam, pibata bhāgavatam. It is meant for the highly qualified, thoughtful philosopher. They are not flowery language. It's fact. Nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalam idam. So we are trying to give to the world this nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalam. Let them take it and take full advantage. Essence of all the Vedic knowledge. If they are intelligent . . . (pause) So how many men required to form a comm . . .? Is there any rule, Doctor?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Five men is good.

Prabhupāda: So you can give his name. He is Indian. Five name.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I already have five, but . . . Sadāpūta, Mādhava, myself and Ravīndra-svarūpa, Amarendra, I think can also give.

Prabhupāda: But they are foreigners.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But for Manipur business . . .

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, for Manipur? Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: For Manipur business don't mistake. Don't use them. We form this five-man subcommittee and take the donation. Then you develop. (looking at newspaper) Whose photograph is there?

Bhakti-caru: Mr. J. C. Shah, an agent . . . "Former Chief Justice, Mr. J. C. Shah, who is going to assist . . . (indistinct) . . . committee during the recent emergency. The former Supreme Court Judge is an agent . . . (indistinct) . . . into the affairs of . . ."

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Bhakti-caru: Enquiry . . .

Prabhupāda: Now . . .

Bhakti-caru: But it depends on . . . everything depends on how much honest they will be.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Bhakti-caru: How honest they will be.

Prabhupāda: Kānā māmāi bhalo. (A blind uncle is better than no uncle at all.) If there is no māmā, (uncle,) blind māmā . . . (uncle) is all right. And who is that, this photograph?

Bhakti-caru: This one is Mr. Charan Singh addressing a press conference in Delhi on Monday, Charan Singh, Indian Prime Minister. Eikhane ekta ye ache. Sanjayer passport . . . (indistinct) . . . (There is one report here. Sanjay's passport . . . (indistinct) . . .) "The passport of Mr. Sanjay Gandhi, Mr. Motilal, and Mr. Dhirendra Brahmacari, who runs a yoga center here, have been impounded. Official sources said here today the necessary instructions have been issued in this regard to the concerned authorities."

Prabhupāda: Impound? Impound? What is the impounding?

Bhakti-caru: Cancelled today.

Prabhupāda: Where there is?

Bhakti-caru: New Delhi te. Eta ye kora hoyechilo . . . (In New Delhi. This has been done . . .) "The instructions have been issued in this regard to the concerned authorities. Mr. Brahmacari is known to be close to Mr. Sanjay Gandhi." "Morarji warns trader's prices. The Prime Minister, Mr. Morarji Desai, today promised in a radio broadcast to check the recent rise in prices on certain goods, 'if necessary by comparing quotas in the current stocks and even by imports, where feasible.' Mr. Desai observed that prices had declined since between February 25 and the end of March but had again increased in the last few weeks in the case of essential goods like oil seeds, cotton, edible oil, tea, pulses and food grains. This has raised apprehensions in the minds of consumers. Some traders and some stockists have taken advantage of the shortage of some commodities to increase prices. The form of exploitation would not be tolerated. The Prime Minister said that 'Lifting of the emergency does not mean that traders should try and make extra profits. That will hinder them in the eyes of the law, the people and the government. I should like to emphasize that the ordinary law of the land is sufficient to deal with any antisocial conduct.' "

Prabhupāda: They should severe punishment. Then . . . we shall see.

Bhakti-caru: Ei khane ekta erom royeche. (There is another one here.) "Nineteen murders in one district."

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Bhakti-caru: Charan Singh er je speech e ekta jaygay bolche . . . (Charan Singh was mentioning in his speech at one point,) "Nineteen murders in one district. 'There was a constitutional breakdown in the states,' he said. The chief minister of Maratha states had admitted to him that his government's reach was no longer running the way it had done earlier. He was receiving many complaints from the U.P. Rajasthan, and Haryana. Fifteen murders have been committed in one district in Bihar in one week. Mr. Charan Singh's statement, which was preceded by a cabinet meeting earlier in the morning, led to a spate of questions. He was asked whether he was going counter to the spirit of the federal structure, which permitted different ruling parties and centers and states, whether the ruling party M.P. would be asked to resign if a state . . . if the states they came from turned down his party government and whether the central government would not invoke the power of an article which stated by the Constitution despite capitalism in the Janata party election manifesto."

Prabhupāda: So what is this yoga? (laughs) Sanjay Gandhi's yoga, just see. A rogue, devil, he is practicing yoga. His mother was practicing also yoga, the same.

Bhakti-caru: They want to pull their youth back.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Bhakti-caru: They are practicing yoga. They want to pull their youth back. Jouban ke dhore rakhar cheshta korche. (They are trying to hold on to their youth.)

Prabhupāda: No Indira Gandhi's news?

Bhakti-caru: (continues to read news articles) No . . . Indira Gandhi . . . "Infighting with Civic Congress Party leads to more powers for laborers." "Civil judge regrets motives against magistrates." . . . (indistinct) . . . " 'The revolutionary work of eliminating poverty and unemployment in the rural areas can be accomplished by a considerable extent through the khādi and village industries. To achieve these objectives modern technology must be utilized to rise to the extent possible.' He hopes the new commission would take steps in this direction." (continues reading news articles)

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Hmm. That's all. (break)

Girirāja: . . . lal to meet you. So far, he hasn't shown himself to be too . . .

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Girirāja: So far, he seems to be more preoccupied with his own ideas, so we don't know whether there will be any benefit to this meeting.

Prabhupāda: But if he wants to meet, I have no objection. (break) . . . and the host was very rich man in anywhere. And he had no son. He expressed his desire to father to take me. This is the position.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your father would not give you up. He was a sannyāsī?

Prabhupāda: Another gentleman in Hasi . . . we were going in the same car. So he requested me, "Please come here." An old man, nice, very well-to-do man. And after giving the nice seat and some refreshment, so he said that "I like you very much. I have no son. Why don't you become as my son?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Seems like everyone is very affectionate to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is Kṛṣṇa's grace. He picked up on the street like this.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That man?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nāhi, adopted son, that is a practice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In America also, they have the foster home. The children are there, and parents may go and adopt some child.

Prabhupāda: That is everywhere. So that village gentleman, that place I liked.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would you have agreed to stay with him?

Prabhupāda: I would have been glad. Very nice foodstuff, very nice, clean, and he has got his fresh vegetables, like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How old were you?

Prabhupāda: At that time I was ten years old. Or twelve years. Not more than twelve years. But I liked that place very much. They still presented the foodstuff, fresh. I have been many . . . not many. In the village, so tasteful, fresh fruit, fresh vegetables, and they cooked so nicely. Nice milk. Everything very nutritious. That life is lost. What is this nonsense life, hanging in the daily buses, outside. Kṛṣṇa advises to live village life, agriculture, and utilize time for understanding your spiritual life. That is . . . so we are trying to introduce this, this farm life. (break) Out of so many other living entities, he tried to give me trouble. How you can check it?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Adhyātmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika.

Prabhupāda: So therefore a Kṛṣṇa conscious person, they know the body is the cause of. "Because I have got this body, I am suffering. So partial service to the body, what benefit?" That is . . . that requires very good brain. Today I have got eye trouble. Tomorrow I have got leg trouble. The other day I have got hand trouble. (break) (end)