770527 - Conversation A - Vrndavana

Conversations by Date, 1977

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

770527R1-VRNDAVAN - May 27, 1977 - 72:44 Minutes

(Conversation Pieces)

Prabhupāda: . . . hum log ko karne dijiye sab badmash, jhutha, ab chinta nahi. Jab hai Hari sahay, hum log jo sab kaam . . . (let us do it on our own, all liars and rogues. But there is nothing to worry about, when there is Lord Hari. Whatever work we are doing . . .) I cannot tolerate this. Ek sheet dite pare . . . (indistinct) . . . ye to barso lag jayega. (They should give us a sheet . . . (indistinct) . . . it will take years to complete.) You did not give me any report of seeing Shriman Narayan?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I went. Shriman Narayan was not in Delhi. I spoke to his secretary, and they said that Shriman Narayan's schedule was changed. He came to Delhi on the 13th to the 22nd. But he had told Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja that he would be there from the 25th to the 30th and I should meet him on these days. So he's gone to Warda, and he'll be back on June 16th now.

Prabhupāda: Yehi chal raha hai. (This is going on.) (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Politicians.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Sab India me waise hi, sab jhuthawala . . . (All these Indian politicians are like this, thieves and rogues . . .)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yet his firm words were how he would help us on those days.

Prabhupāda: Where is Girirāja?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's coming back on June 16th now.

Prabhupāda: June 16th kya hoga kya malum? (Who knows what will happen on June 16th?) That Shriman Narayan said that "You meet me in Delhi between 25th to 30th. I'll be there."

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And that . . . here is a fault. To deal with these men . . . and therefore Cāṇakya Paṇḍita said: "Never trust the politician and woman." Viśvāso naiva kartavyaṁ strīṣu rāja-kuleṣu. Open it. So where is that Akhila Kṛṣṇa Gosvāmī?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I've given word. As soon as he comes, I shall be called. He hasn't come yet. I gave him time at nine o'clock, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's about two or three minutes from now. As soon as he comes, I'll bring him in.

Prabhupāda: . . . kitna baje? (At what time?) What time you gave?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nine o'clock.

Prabhupāda: And what is the time now?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: According to my watch, nine o'clock.

Prabhupāda: Nine?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Wardha me gaya nahi kyu? (Why didn't you go to Wardha?)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Wardha me? (To Wardha?) I should go there?

Prabhupāda: . . . behaya hai. (. . . they are all shameless.)

Jayapatākā: Election hai. (There is an election.)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There are nine state elections now.

Girirāja: But he's not going there. In Maharashtra there's no election, and he's not . . . he's somewhat retired from politics.

Prabhupāda: No . . . (indistinct) . . . Ye jo photography competition, ye . . . (indistinct). (This photography competition . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Ye hai par ye log bhi do hafte ke liye bilkul booked hai. Wo log ne Srimad Bhagavatam ke liye, hum pucha kitna jaldi se jaldi dega. Kehta hai do hafte . . . (It is there but these people are also completely booked for the next two weeks. For Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam I asked them how quickly they can deliver. They are saying two . . .) to three weeks. And they want us to give everything typewritten to them. Hum log abhi, Prem Yogi hath me likhke deta hai. To typewritten hum log karayenge to usme do hafta aur lag jayega. Wo log handwritten nahi lega. (Right now Prem Yogi gives it in handwritten form. If we have to type it out then it will take another two weeks. They are not going to be in handwritten form.) So I calculated, it will take more time than just doing it by hand. Pehle wo log ko har ek chiz typewritten chahiye. (First of all they want everything in typewritten form.)

Prabhupāda: Ye to is janam me hoga nahi, Vrindavan me. Vrindavan me jis style me ja raha hai, ye to do char janam lag jayega. (This is not going to get completed in this lifetime in Vṛndāvana. The pace at which things are going on here in Vṛndāvana, it will take three to four lives.)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Abhi Allahabad me pata laga hai. (We have come to know of a place in Allahabad.)

Prabhupāda: Jata nahi kyu? (Why don't you go there then?)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Allahabad me mono-composing hai. Allahabad me hi hai khali. (There is mono-composing in Allahabad. It is available only in Allahabad.)

Prabhupāda: Kyu nahi gaya? Vrindavan me ho nahi sakta. Ye murkhta hai. (Why didn't you go there? It will not be possible in Vrindavan. This is foolishness.)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Agar Prem Yogi ji Allahabad a jaye to waha pe wo proofread kar sakte hai. (If Prem Yogi ji goes to Allahabad then he can do the proofreading there.)

Prabhupāda: Tum ja sakega, kyu nahi? (You will be able to go, why not?)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Aur waha koi apartment le lenge ya ek do kamra kidhar mil jaye. (And he will take one apartment there or if he gets one or two rooms anywhere.)

Prabhupāda: Mil jayega, apka dost hai . . . (He will get one. Your friend . . .)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Allahabad is the only hope.

Prabhupāda: Dr. Ghosh bhej denge unse. (I will send it through Dr. Ghosh.)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Thik hai. Hum . . . Allahabad jaunga abhi. Waha teen press characters bhi liya hai. (Okay. I will go to Allahabad now. We have also taken three press characters there.)

Prabhupāda: . . . sab chor hai. (. . . they are all thieves.)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Allahabad me? (In Allahabad?)

Prabhupāda: Hindustan bhar me chor hai. Sab jagah me hai, Hindustan me zyada hai. Anuman hai. Idhar jab me tha, bada muskhil se teen kitab chapaya. Aur America me gaya, every month . . . (indistinct) . . . kitna farak hota hai. Ye America me English me kitab-vitab chapi. Ye hairan kar deta hai, mar deta hai. (India is full of thieves. It is the same everywhere but in India it is too much. When I was here in India, I could print only three books with great difficulty. And in America, every month . . . (indistinct) . . . just see how much difference it makes. I printed all these English books in America. But here, they simply harass you to death.) So you do not expect any good things from them. Otherwise you will not have any progress.

Girirāja: Well, we've seen from practical experience, they've never done anything except waste our time. Just like you said, they got rid of a lion and now there is a tiger.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Girirāja: You said that they have got rid of a lion and now in place there is a tiger.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Morarji Desai met some of our devotees in Hoshiarpur about . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (whispers)

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Swami told me you know it.

Prabhupāda: So why don't you see him?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I was waiting for the Shriman Narayan meeting, but now I think we'll go back and see . . .

Prabhupāda: There is no . . . Narayan told . . . you can say: "This man assured us. Why cannot . . .? He's not available." So we can take him if he's kind enough to see. "It will be great kind to us." Just simply say.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: "And this permanent residence American give us. Not only us, there are so many other Indians. I was permanent resident. So what is the wrong there? And you can make any condition. Kindly give us this paper." Go and see.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay.

Prabhupāda: Go and see and appeal.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. I'll go tomorrow.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And find out some good confidants.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I got three very big . . .

Prabhupāda: You cannot expect Vṛndāvana to go big on business. It is not possible. You also find. Don't sit idly. I am prepared to pay for that, "Why you should not give us?" Here, there, any hell, heaven, find out.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Allahabad is the best place, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: No, you find best place and again it becomes worse. Again you find out. Do it. Don't talk. I don't want talk. I want to see. That's all now. (break) Ye Musalman goru der ko kaat deta hai . . . (indistinct) . . . (These Muslims slaughter the cows . . . (indistinct) . . .) Don't kill now. (laughs) (indistinct) That is very troublesome. Don't kill me now. Go on. (kīrtana) (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This should be done immediately, make trust property.

Prabhupāda: You are seeing it is done? Who says that? Where is the rascal?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To designate all these . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It should be done for all the property all over ISKCON.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, but especially here in India.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Like in big temples, like in L.A. New York, like that.

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the trustees should be designated.

Prabhupāda: You do not know. Trustee without designation—where is the trustee? I have already made one block of trustees, that Bhaktivedanta Book Trust.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: In that style you make.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So we'll make up a draft of that style and then, after the draft is approved, you can tell us which trustees you want.

Prabhupāda: That you select amongst yourselves. Why you are taxing me?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right. I didn't know if you wanted us to do that.

Prabhupāda: You do not know? I have repeatedly said. You do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, for Bombay and Māyāpur and Vṛndāvana, I mean.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Hyderabad.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, these three places are most important.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere. (pause) Among yourselves, there is no strong man. That is the defect. All like child. That is the defect. And it requires a very strong man. That is lacking. In every minute details I have poked my nose. Anyone, whatever you have got, sit down and select trustees, and the format is there. Make a trustee. So . . .? (break) . . . should be so many copies. Every one of you GBC and important men must have that copies.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll distribute copies today.

Prabhupāda: Among few, Rāmeśvara will be printed in. Anyway, do your best. Otherwise there is a very big undercurrent. They are looking for the opportunity. (pause) They want some money first.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So he's going to go to Allahabad after two weeks. (pause)

Prabhupāda: No, don't waste time, a single moment. Very cautiously, intelligently work. (break) Mr. Sharma in Calcutta, I was guest in his house for some time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Veni Shankar Sharma.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Formerly he was an M.P. He's a lawyer also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I think he can write.

Bhavānanda: He was out in Māyāpur about one month back.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Then you shall benefit. Gargamuni knows him. Make this.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhavānanda knows him. Jayapatākā too.

Prabhupāda: He is nice man. Each property, trustee.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Asnani can also help.

Prabhupāda: Trustees appointed by me. That's all. That will save.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What did you say, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Trustees appointed by me. Each temple should have three trustees.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And they're appointed by you.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are appointed . . . and the format is already there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In BBT.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In this way make it immediately. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you're gonna have your massage now.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And the next group is coming out at three. That's nearly five hours from now. So I think that immediately we can have a meeting and discuss these points and immediately . . .

Prabhupāda: No, discussion I have already given you. Do this.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I meant . . . and execute this.

Prabhupāda: All right, you do it. Don't delay. (break) Life is within the atom. Aṇḍāntara-stham. That life in due course of time, it comes out through the water. All of a sudden there is a bubble coming down, coming down. That is the beginning of generation. What do you think, that? Jalajā. Kṣīṇe puṇye punaḥ martya-lokaṁ viśanti (BG 9.21). They are elevated very high planetary system. Again, after reminiscing, they come down. That is described in the śāstra: fall down through rains. Again, like bubbles, come out. (break) Where? The bottom of the earth, giving life. That is already done. In favorable circumstances, due course of time, it comes out. (aside) You keep. (break) Lots of money.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Shastra bolche, jalaja, prothomete jal theke ar dekhteo pacchi amra jaler bhitor mach ache. Ki kore ache? Oi macher bhitor jiva ache, atomic. Shekhan theke . . . (Scriptures are saying, jalajā. It starts from water and we can see practically that there are fish living in water. How is it so? There is a spirit soul within that fish, atomic. From there . . .) In due course, in favorable circumstances, it is to be coming out.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That jīva comes along with the rain?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That jīva, the ātmā, comes . . .

Prabhupāda: Comes from. Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: . . . along with the rain.

Prabhupāda: That is described in the śāstra. Kṣīṇe puṇye punaḥ martya-lokaṁ viśanti. In this way they come to the lower planetary system. Coming with water and begin again with water.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That makes sense.

Prabhupāda: And we see sṛṣṭi-tattva, Mahā-Viṣṇu, is coming through water, Kāraṇa-jala. The same process . . . we are aṇu; He is vibhu. Yaḥ kāraṇārṇava-jale bhajati sma yoga-nidrām anantam (BS 5.47). Kāraṇārṇava-jale.

Bhavānanda: In Darwin's evolutionary theory also he says from the water life came. Correct?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. They also say life from water. (Mahāṁśa enters and offers obeisances)

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Registered?

Mahāṁśa: These are the Deities.

Prabhupāda: Not yet registered?

Mahāṁśa: Not yet finished.

Prabhupāda: Why it is remaining to be done?

Mahāṁśa: They have asked for fifteen thousand rupees instead of nine thousand, because we put a value of the land on six lakhs, and they have valued it as ten and a half lakhs. So I just wrote a letter to Your Divine Grace, asking whether we should pay them that amount and go ahead or . . .

Prabhupāda: Pay on protest.

Mahāṁśa: On protest.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mahāṁśa: That . . . yes, the advocate said if we go to the higher court, we will get a transfer.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Pay immediately on protest. They'll return immediately. Pay on protest.

Mahāṁśa: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Very good. Hmm.

Mahāṁśa: Actually now, in the monsoons, we're going to take up a lot of cultivation. This is watermelon juice.

Prabhupāda: So give it to the Deity and distribute prasādam.

Mahāṁśa: Yes, Prabhupāda. It got a little spoiled while traveling. The tomatoes got a little squashed, but some of them are ripe.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. It doesn't matter. So what is your news?

Indian devotee (1): So we also gained a farm. We have started cultivating now.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa is giving you good chance. Develop farm and have temple. Go on enthusiastically.

Mahāṁśa: This morning I read in the newspapers about the exodus to village soon by the Prime Minister, and there the Prime Minister says that he is eager on developing village programs, to establish agriculture facilities and village programs.

Prabhupāda: That is real work. If the Prime Minister has got this thing in his brain, then I can understand that he can do so.

Mahāṁśa: And this is a very nice thing he said, Prabhupāda. He said that "We want to improve things in the countryside to an extent that people from the cities start running to the villages."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I want. I . . . everywhere I go and say: "How these rascals . . .?" So much land is lying, and these rascals are not developing. And they are making . . . what is that? Coal stone. Coal. They are interested with these bricks and stones, not green vegetables. Such a rascal government. Give them facility. We know how to do it. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ, yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). Let them engage in kīrtana. There will be more water for gardening, and it will be moist, and then produce fodder for the animals and food for you. And animal gives you milk. That is Vṛndāvana life. And they are absorbed in this so-called opulence. Kṛṣṇa has taken birth. They are bringing so many nice, pleasant foodstuff, coming very well-dressed and ornamented. These are description. In the morning we were reading. How they were happy, the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana with Kṛṣṇa and living entities and cows. That I want to introduce. At any cost do it and . . . don't bother about big, big buildings. It is not required. Useless waste of time. Produce. Make the whole field green. See that. Then whole economic question solved. Then you eat sumptuous. Eat sumptuously. The animal is happy. The animal even does not give milk, let them eat and pass stool and urine. That is welcome. After all, eating, they will pass stool. So that is beneficial, not that simply milk is beneficial. Even the stool is beneficial. Therefore I am asking so much here and . . . "Farm, farm, farm, farm." That is not my program—Kṛṣṇa's program. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Produce greenness everywhere, everywhere. Vṛndāvana. It is not this motorcar civilization. If it has taken in his brain, then it is to be understood that he can do it, this plan. He'll be able. Somebody said that he is eager to see me. Hmm?

Mahāṁśa: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Mahāṁśa: Caitya-guru was saying.

Prabhupāda: Caitya-guru?

Indian devotee (1): Actually I was wondering that I should go and contact him, 'cause last time, when he met our devotees, when he mentioned that he was very eager to have your darśana in Bombay, but you were not feeling well. So you were unable to see him.

Prabhupāda: But if he can come to see me . . . this program he's taking, the whole world will be happy. (break) Land was made wet by milk, not with water. This is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. You can find out that verse.

Yaśomatīnandana: Which one? Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Siṣicuḥ. Gāvaḥ siṣicuḥ, like that. Sarva-dughā mahī. Ah. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ sarva-kāma-dughā mahī (SB 1.10.4). Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ. The situation in Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's kingdom . . . this is the beginning of the verse. Find out. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ, er, sarva-dughā mahī: sarva-kāma-dughā mahī. First part. (pause)

Yaśomatīnandana: That is in First Canto, Part Two, which is not here.

Prabhupāda: This shelter made for keeping always reference book . . . there is no book. Vṛndāvana. Just see. See. The shelter kept there, reference book. It is not there. Just see. What for we have got shelter? Shelf is there for keeping reference book, somebody has taken away. That's all. This is our management. This is bad management. What can I do? This is our movement. We have to select men from the worst class. Pāpī tāpī jata chilo. (laughs) Nobody will come here after passing M.A. Ph.D. The most fallen we have to select.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lowest.

Prabhupāda: Pāpī tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo. This is our position. We have to select our worker from the worst class of the society, pāpī and tāpī. But, we shall prove, by hari-nāma they become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the movement. You trace the history of everyone. All worst, third class. And they come here. And that is Kṛṣṇa conscious movement. How many Doctor Svarūpa has come? If we speak frankly, (laughter) all from the worst class. Those who were finished. And Kṛṣṇa . . . it is said, pāpī-tāpī jata chilo. Pāpī and tāpī, they are not first class. They are the tenth class. Pāpī-tāpī jata chilo hari-nāme uddhārilo. This is the test of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement, that how many pāpī-tāpīs have been picked up. Brajendra-nandana jei, śaci-suta hoilo sei, balarāma hoilo nitāi. This is Gaura-Nitāi. What is their business? Now, pāpī-tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo. "Bās? This is their business?" Yes, to deliver all the pāpīs and tāpīs. "So how is that?" Tāra sākṣī jagāi and mādhāi. See Jagāi-Mādhāi. It is not imaginary. So we have to deliver all Jagāis and Mādhāis. This is our movement. That is the test of the . . . of us. It is not sorry for that, but still, they should act like good men.

Yaśomatīnandana: The verse is here.

kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ

sarva-kāma-dughā mahī

siṣicuḥ sma vrajān gāvaḥ . . .

(SB 1.10.4)

Prabhupāda: Siṣicuḥ?

Yaśomatīnandana: Siṣicuḥ sma vrajān gāvaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Siṣicuḥ sma vrajān gāvaḥ.

Yaśomatīnandana: Payasodhasvatīr mudā.

Prabhupāda: This is Yudhiṣṭhira . . . come in everywhere. It was the position during Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's time that land should be kept wet, and during Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's time the land was wet not by water but by milk. This is Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's time. Siṣicuḥ sma vrajān gāvaḥ (SB 1.10.4). What is the meaning?

Yaśomatīnandana: "Kāmam—everything needed." Translation: "During the reign of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira the clouds showered all the water that people needed, and the earth produced all the necessities of man profusely. Due to its fatty milk bag and cheerful attitude the cow used to moisten the grazing ground with milk."

Prabhupāda: Introduce this, rascal. This party government, that party government, big, big belly, big, big monkey, eating cows and hogs and dogs, and they have become big, big minister. What they can do? That is not . . . this is the secret. What is the second line?

Yaśomatīnandana: Nadyaḥ samudrā girayaḥ . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no, no.

Yaśomatīnandana: Siṣicuḥ sma vrajān (SB 1.10.4).

Prabhupāda: Ah. Let them remain happy, and automatically, just like in our Philadelphia, oh, such a big . . . giving milk thousand pounds. Yes, we are doing this, fatty. Cans of milk. Even the cat is happy, the dog is happy. There is no fight. Cat is so happy, stroking on the back of the cows. Similarly, the dog is . . . there is no "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" barking. I have seen it. Only through the medium of milk. These are not stories. I have seen. And who is Satyabhāmā's husband?

Bhavānanda: Oh, Param . . . what's his name? (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . make the whole land, people, very happy. You show this example all over the world, this example, in America. Don't spoil money. Show by example. Enough science and enough motorcar, that's all. No more wanted. This is wanted. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). Bring water from the sky. Keep always land moist and green. This is wanted. It is not my desire; it is Kṛṣṇa's. Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Here Vyāsadeva says, kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ. These rascals, they do not know. They do not consult śāstra, therefore they manufacture. In Chandigarh so much land lying vacant. Thirty years already passed. And they are developing the cities. And another four hundred years will be required. The land is lying vacant, and they are making two governors, five commissioners, six ministers and . . . drawing fat salary. This is government. Government means to draw fat salary at the expense of poor people. Dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. Rājanya dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. Just like the rogues and thieves, they by force take money from us, these rascal, under some law, they'll take, this government. They will live at any cost. Never mind forty rupees . . . (indistinct) . . . a week. They have got cheap money. Print note and give him forty rupees. What is that? "You want forty rupees? Eh, take forty rupees." This is artificial inflation. They have got power to print notes. "Pay gold forty rupees." "No, that is illegal. Take paper." Means a cheating business from the government. He's giving him piece of paper, and the rascal is thinking, "I am making one thousand rupees." Formerly, in our childhood, we have seen a currency. They will offer, "What you want—gold, silver, or currency?" These three things were offered. If you want gold coins, take gold coins. If you want silver coins, take silver. And if you want currency, you take. We have seen it.

Yaśomatīnandana: No more.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You could purchase. In our family or every family, they used to purchase gold from the currency and melt it and make ornaments. There was no restriction. "Guinea gold." Gold was purchased and sold as you like. Where is that gold? Refusing gold and taking.

Yaśomatīnandana: You want me to read the purport? "The basic principle of economic development is centered about land and cows. The necessities of human society are food grains, fruits, milk, minerals, clothing, wood, etc . . ."

Prabhupāda: I am not interested in . . . (indistinct) . . . these I have already written some years ago. This is my idea.

Yaśomatīnandana: "One requires all these items to fulfill the material needs of the body. Certainly one does not require flesh and fish or iron tools and machinery. During the regime of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, all over the world there were regulative rainfalls. Rainfalls are not under the control of the human being. The heavenly king Indradeva is the controller of rain, and he is the servant of the Lord. When the Lord is obeyed by the king and the people under the king's administration, there are regulative rains from the horizon." (break)

Prabhupāda: So how things were explained? It has been explained by me before that. Why don't you take it? There is no need here.

Yaśomatīnandana: He told the devotees that he has got your edition of Bhagavad-gītā and he has read it. His son purchased it. And he has got some other books also. He liked it very much.

Indian devotee (2): There was meeting of Ārya-samāj, so we went to attend that. They invited him there. And later on, they asked that the government should help them to open a big hospital there. And he said that "Because I myself do not use allopath medicines, so how can I help you? How can I introduce? I believe in the nature cure. I can't help. If you produce something, that nature cure hospital, my government will help you." He said, "I never took medicine in my life," Morarji Desai says. And he was in jail. He said that everybody was seeing that they were nineteen months in jail, and they have disease, some pain, and some this one, some this one. He said: "But I got something from there. I learned whole Bhagavad-gītā by heart. I was worshiping Kṛṣṇa. I was reciting Gītā in the morning and evening. I got something, whereas others, they have failed. They couldn't get anything. I took something from that jail."

Yaśomatīnandana: (reading) "Regulative rains not only help ample production of food grains and fruits, but when they combine with astronomical influences there is ample production of valuable stones and pearls. Grains and vegetables can sumptuously feed a man and animals, and a fatty cow delivers enough milk to supply a man sumptuously with vigor and vitality. If there is enough milk, enough grains, enough fruit, enough cotton, enough silk and enough jewels, then why do the people want cinemas, houses of prostitution, slaughterhouses, etc.? What is the need of an artificial, materialist's life of cinema, cars, radio, flesh and hotels? Has this civilization produced anything but quarreling, individually and nationally?"

Prabhupāda: Like hog. (break)

Yaśomatīnandana: "Why don't you still take advantage?"

Prabhupāda: Still you can take advantage of it. What you are doing? Here is this nice statement. Here is the thought.

Yaśomatīnandana: Another, Home Minister, also is saying these same things: discourage the factories and industrialization . . .

Prabhupāda: This is ruination. Factory means ruination. Factory means destruction. And agriculture means construction. The father is going to the factory, and the children are starving—destruction. Go on reading.

Yaśomatīnandana: "The human being is the elder brother of all other living beings." (break)

Prabhupāda: Satkāra. Now, whatever you . . .

Yaśomatīnandana: Practical solution for all problems.

Prabhupāda: So . . .

Bhavānanda: Kīrtana? (break)

Girirāja: This morning you gave the hint that there might be envious persons coming to take away our properties, so in the GBC meeting we discussed this point, that . . . a committee of us six was made to resolve this. So basically what we did is we made a model trust deed which can be used for all of the Indian properties. There may be three trustees for each property. And the basic point of the trust deed is that the property rests with these trustees and that they have no right to sell or mortgage or dispose of the property in any way. That is the basic point. And then we have proposed three trustees for each of the properties. So . . .

Prabhupāda: But there will be finally the trustees. And there may be one advisory board to . . . pick up some friends and make an advisory board. They are not final. Final is trustee. Anything to be done should be considered first of all by the advisory board, and then if it should be sanctioned by the trustees, then it can be done. So some friends, we can make an advisory . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some sympathizers and friends.

Prabhupāda: Local . . .

Yaśomatīnandana: Local citizens?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Local citizens.

Prabhupāda: Yes . . . (indistinct) . . . the trustees appoint. And when trustees are going to retire, he should nominate his own person.

Jayatīrtha: We've included that in the closure of the will.

Jayapatākā: So the trustees should be managing on behalf of ISKCON.

Prabhupāda: So after making finally, we consult with that Mr. Sharma. He'll make some clarification. Gargamuni knows. He'll make it final.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's a trust lawyer. He specializes in this.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Then make it final. That's all.

Girirāja: So if you'd like, Rāmeśvara Mahārāja can read what we drafted.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Rāmeśvara: This is based on the BBT Trust document that you wrote many years ago, the same idea, format. "I, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, Founder-Ācārya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, disciple of Oṁ Viṣṇupāda 108 Śrī Śrīmad Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja Prabhupāda, and we, the members of the Bureau of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, hereby give and transfer the properties and all the property rights incidental thereto, as hereinafter described, to the following persons as trustees in trust for purposes hereinafter stated and to be administered in accordance with the provisions hereinafter set forth." And there are five different trusts. The first one is for Māyāpur, and the proposed trustees are Jayapatākā Mahārāja, Bhavānanda Mahārāja and Gopāla Kṛṣṇa. The second one is for Bombay, and the proposed trustees are Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja, Girirāja and Gopāla Kṛṣṇa. The third one is for Vṛndāvana, and the proposed trustees are Akṣayānanda Swami, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa and Viśvambhara.

Prabhupāda: Viśvambhara is not our regular disciple.

Jayapatākā: Shouldn't be included.

Prabhupāda: Then he has to accept sannyāsa from me.

Jayatīrtha: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: He should know . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Become initiated.

Jayapatākā: Trustee must be initiated disciple.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Rāmeśvara: If he is seen . . . he could be on the advisory board.

Prabhupāda: No, you can say that, "If you take sannyāsa, you become on this."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we'll talk to him, and if he says no, then we'll select another person and come back and tell you who our choice is.

Prabhupāda: No, we have got already.

Rāmeśvara: The fourth trust is for Haridaspur, and the proposed trustees are Jayapatākā Swami . . .

Prabhupāda: That is subsection of Māyāpur.

Jayapatākā: Subsection of Māyāpur.

Rāmeśvara: So that should just be the Māyāpur trustees.

Prabhupāda: It is a section of Māyāpur.

Rāmeśvara: Then the last one is for Bhuvaneśvara.

Prabhupāda: But what about Hyderabad?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That we have already made as trust.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gopāla Kṛṣṇa Prabhu informed us that there is already a trust created for Hyderabad, so there's no need of our creating any other.

Indian devotee (2): Hyderabad, Ahmedabad and Hyderabad farm, we have got already trust.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We didn't want to duplicate anything.

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Since there was already a trust. Bhuvaneśvara, there is property but no trust, so we thought that it was worthy of forming a trust.

Rāmeśvara: So for Bhuvaneśvara it is proposed that Gaura-Govinda Swami, Jayapatākā Swami and Bhāgavata dāsa . . .

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Rāmeśvara: And then the trust document names them, and then it goes on. "1. Trust Fund."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there a name confirming?

Rāmeśvara: That's coming up. "The properties which shall constitute the trust fund and will hereinafter be called the trust properties shall include the following, hereinafter listed." Then for each trust there is a complete listing of the property, the temple and the Deities. A legal listing.

Prabhupāda: Inventory.

Rāmeśvara: Inventory, yes, inventory. Then "Section 2: Name of the Trust. This trust shall be known by the name . . ." So for each trust there's a different name. For Māyāpur it is proposed "Śrī Māyāpur Chandrodaya Mandir Trust." For Bombay, "Śrī-Śrī-Rādhā-Rāsa-Vihārījī Temple Trust." For Vṛndāvana, "Śrī-Śrī-Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma Mandir Trust," and that will include the Gurukula. For Bhuvaneśvara, "Śrī-Śrī-Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma Bhuvaneśvara Trust." It goes on to say: "In so far as possible, the trustees shall conduct the trust activities in that name. Section 3: The Purpose of the Trust. This trust is created and shall be operated exclusively for fulfilling the aims and objects of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness as per the memorandum of association. ISKCON is registered as a society under the Society Act of 1860, and is registered as a public charitable trust. We direct that no part of this trust shall inure to the benefit of any private individual, and no part of the activities of this trust shall consist of participating in or intervening in any political campaign on behalf of any candidate for public office." Then "Section 4: The Use of the Trust. Irrevocably, the properties, the temple and the Deities thereupon and all other holdings of the trust shall never be mortgaged, borrowed against, sold, transferred . . ."

Prabhupāda: Stole?

Rāmeśvara: "Sold."

Prabhupāda: Sold.

Rāmeśvara: ". . . or in any way shall the ownership or the assets of the trust be alienated or disposed of. This clause cannot be revoked or amended under any circumstance. Section 5: Management of the Trust. The trustees who have herein been designated are appointed for life. In the event of the death or failure to act for any reason of any of the said trustees a successor trustee or trustees may be appointed by the remaining trustees, with never less than three or more than five trustees acting at one time."

Prabhupāda: And the majority decision should be always accepted.

Rāmeśvara: The last section is called "The Term of the Trust." "This trust shall be irrevocable. In the advent of an inadvertent disqualification of this trust under the laws as they may exist from time to time, which may require a dissolution of the trust, the entire trust holdings shall in that event be distributed to the International Society for Krishna Consciousness." Then, following that, there's a page which says, "In witness whereof, we have executed this trust on this day," and it has a place for your signature as Founder-Ācārya of ISKCON, then another signature of Your Divine Grace as the chairman of the Bureau of ISKCON, and then a signature of Girirāja as a member of the Bureau of ISKCON. Then, on the last page, the acceptance of the trust. And it says: "The trustees hereby accept this trust and the obligations imposed thereby and undertake to hold, manage and administer the trust in accordance with the terms of this agreement." And it has a place for the three signatures of the three trustees.

Prabhupāda: I think it is all right. It is all right. Bring this typed. Make everything. That's all right.

Rāmeśvara: This will make it impossible for anyone to cheat.

Prabhupāda: Yes, as far as I can see. Finished. Yes. Jaya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now the next group will come, Śrīla Prabhupāda, for kīrtana.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: Now he is introducing in Russian language a textbook. In Russian, is it not?

Harikeśa: Polish.

Prabhupāda: Poland. They have been introduced. This is achievement. I want that. Hmm. Go on. (kīrtana) (end)