771004 - Conversation - Vrndavana

Conversations by Date, 1977

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

771004R1-VRNDAVAN - October 04, 1977 - 52:08 Minutes

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No? You want to bathe now? So Upendra will bathe you, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: What is time now?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The time is about ten o'clock in the morning. I think tomorrow we can go to see the Deity, Prabhupāda. (break) More swollen than I've seen it in months. Last night you said was havoc. Do you have any headache?

Prabhupāda: No, I don't have any.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you want to sit up now, Śrīla Prabhupāda, for bathing? Abhirāma and Upendra will clean you now, Śrīla Prabhupāda, change sheets. Everything has to be cleansed.

Prabhupāda: It is dirty?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think so. Yes. So we'll be in the next room, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (offer obeisances) (break)

Haṁsadūta: . . . self-independence. But we can see as you explain to us, when they get this education they become just like a dog going from door to door looking for a morsel of food. The island of Sri Lanka is very, very green, because they have a lot of rainfall. Right now it's rainy season and very lush. All fruits, vegetables grow there. But the government has a foolish policy. They produce tea and tobacco and rubber and all useless, rubbish things. They could produce food ten times for the population, but they don't do that.

Prabhupāda: Anywhere, not only Ceylon.

Haṁsadūta: They still have wild elephants in the jungles. Here is Bhagatjī, Prabhupāda. Bhagatjī has come.

Prabhupāda: In which paper the arrest of Indira Gandhi?

Bhagatjī: Indira Gandhi was arrested last night at eight o'clock.

Haṁsadūta: Which paper reported?

Bhagatjī: In the radio it came at once, throughout the whole India. And she was released in morning on bail.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Who gave her this bail?

Haṁsadūta: Who gave the bail?

Bhagatjī: So many persons.

Brahmānanda: How much was the bail?

Haṁsadūta: It appears that she's becoming popular again with the public.

Bhagatjī: On 2nd of October she went to Agra, Śrīla Prabhupāda. She went to Agra. When you got down from the train at 7:30, she was coming on nine on Taj Express from Delhi. After that, there was so much of crowd going on for her. In Agra there were fifty or sixty thousand people waiting for her, too.

Haṁsadūta: She's becoming popular again.

Bhagatjī: The question is about this dearness, these costly things, going, prices higher and higher.

Bali-mardana: Yes. The prices are going up, so the people are becoming dissatisfied with this Janata government.

Haṁsadūta: Just prior to her being arrested, a few days, she has publicly announced that "The government doesn't have the guts to arrest me." She said: "The government does not have the guts to arrest me." So this arresting her will make her more popular. She is very intelligent lady. And her counter . . . her little sister, this Sirimavo Bandaranaike, she was the prime minister of Sri Lanka. She is also coming back. These two women went to school together. They were in the same class. It's very . . .

Bhagatjī: From Ceylon.

Haṁsadūta: Yes. It's very . . . amazing coincidence. This woman prime minister of Sri Lanka, she follows everything Indira does. When Indira Gandhi held elections, she also held elections. She lost, she lost. She's coming back; she's coming back. They're very friendly, two ladies running these two countries. Sometimes when preaching I tell the public, "What kind of country is this? The land of the rājarṣis and some lady is running the government."

Prabhupāda: Hmm, don't touch politics.

Haṁsadūta: Oh, all right. (laughs) We should stay clear of the government. They are too dangerous.

Prabhupāda: Cultural . . . we . . . our culture and philosophy. To be arrested is not new thing for politicians.

Haṁsadūta: She also said in that speech that in India it's not a shame to be arrested. In India this is not considered something bad. It's acceptable. And it's a fact.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere.

Brahmānanda: The governor who came to see you in Bombay, practically his only qualification is that he was arrested. He was in jail for nineteen months. Other than that . . . before, he was a very small man. Now he's a big man simply because he was in jail for nineteen months.

Haṁsadūta: The new prime minister, we met him a few days after he was inaugurated. We gave him Kṛṣṇa book and a nice letter. He doesn't smoke or drink. He's a Buddhist. He seems to be a, relatively speaking, a nice man. But he's quite old. He's also seventy years old. But, Prabhupāda, eventually, our movement practically around the world will attract the attention of the government.

Brahmānanda: They will not like.

Haṁsadūta: They won't like it. They never like. Just like Germany, it's actually the government. The people are innocent; they don't . . . but these governments, they can see the danger in Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Bali-mardana: Would you like Haṁsadūta to chant some more?

Prabhupāda: Hmm, hmm. Yes. (kīrtana—Haṁsadūta chants) (break)

Girirāja: (referring to problems with the bank) On the one hand, the full management of the Society rests with Your Divine Grace. But on the other hand, as a Society, there is also a Bureau which passes resolutions. So they were confused as to the relationship between Your Divine Grace and the Bureau. So they wanted to clarify some of these issues with their legal department.

Prabhupāda: Is there any difficulty?

Girirāja: There's no difficulty. They are . . . they appear to be . . . actually they're not really capable to manage this bank on their own, so . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Another grievance is that we have not yet . . . we have been asking them to give us interest on our savings accounts here. We have about ten savings accounts. And for about one year now they have not given interest because now they say that the rule is that for anything above two lakhs of rupees they don't give interest. And they showed a law from the . . . bank law saying that they didn't have to give interest for money in a savings account beyond two lakhs. So I explained to them that every bank in India that we bank with does give us interest.

Girirāja: See, their final position is that they want to help us, but they cannot go beyond the rules. And actually, they showed a letter from the regional manager not to pay that. But I feel that when we meet the chairman or the general manager . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of the whole bank.

Girirāja: Because they will want our business, they'll be willing to go out of the way to satisfy us. And these local people, they say that if their higher authorities approve of these things, then they will be very happy to help us.

Prabhupāda: Make it clear.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Make it clear."

Prabhupāda: Organize gradually. Shift the money to other banks so they may not know. And that is the best policy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the best policy, Prabhupāda said. That should now be done.

Prabhupāda: No, immediately there is no more fixed deposit?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not immediately. Now the next ones will be in 1979 and 1981.

Prabhupāda: What is the advice?

Girirāja: Should we read it?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Girirāja: They just confirmed that they transferred the two amounts, and they gave the date, and they gave that it's transferred to the Central Bank in Bombay and the account number.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were very impressed with Girirāja. I mentioned to Mr. Gupta here that Girirāja's father was the biggest lawyer in Chicago. So they also felt that he was like a lawyer. So they were very impressed by him, and he was dealing with them in a very patient but intelligent way. So they just . . . actually they realized more things today, I think, than ever before about the position of our Society. They got a little bit more knowledge. And they also revealed more today about how they were thinking 'cause of the way Girirāja was talking with them. I think it was the most . . . it was a very progressive conversation. They are awaiting a telephone call that we would be going with them to Delhi tomorrow morning.

Prabhupāda: Wrote it?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have to call them to confirm that we will be going. Should we utilize the car, Śrīla Prabhupāda, or go in the train?

Prabhupāda: No, you can go by car.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The road is open. Upendra is here now. Should we give him the kismis to make?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Upendra . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's the kismis. Prabhupāda said mix with honey and smash.

Prabhupāda: Four kismis.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whole kismis.

Prabhupāda: Not whole. Four.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Four kismis.

Prabhupāda: And equal quantity, honey. Make a paste.

Haṁsadūta: Equal quantity, honey.

Prabhupāda: Little honey. Not very much.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not much honey. (aside) Sure you want to call them on the telephone? It's getting late. So we'll call them now to tell them that we're going. (break)

Haṁsadūta: We have one book now ready to be composed and printed in Sinhalese language.

Prabhupāda: Bring that.

Haṁsadūta: Yes. It's now going to be composed. It will take a little time, because outside of Ceylon no one speaks Sinhalese, so we have to work with the local printers to get it composed.

Prabhupāda: Āap. (You.) Yes. (24.23) (long break)

Prabhupāda: Ye Allahabad Bank kaise chalta hai? (This Allahabad Bank, how does it function?)

Bhagatjī: Allahabad Bank shayad uth ja raha hai yahan se, ab chal nahi raha. Bahut kum, ab take 20000 rupay ke ab tak deposits hue hain. (Allahabad Bank is going to be moved out from here, it is not functioning now. Much less, up until now only 20,000 rupees deposits have come in.)

Prabhupāda: Band kar denge? (They will close down?)

Bhagatjī: Mere khyal me to band ho jayega. Punjab National Bank se meri baat-cheet hui thee Prabhupad. Humne kaha ki tum us jagah ko le lo. to wo to kahe ki tum hume likh ke de do 12 court me hume de do lekin wo gosai ji hame maloom hua ki unke paas jo permit hai wo Krishna-Balaram temple ke naam se hai. Punjab National Bank ke pas jo permit hai Srila Prabhupad wo Krishna-Balaram mandir ke naam se hai. wo shift karenge wahan to Allahabad Bank unke upar fauran oppose karne lagega. Aur agar Allahabad bank ko ata hai to oppose kar rahe hain. Ye position hai. Matlab ye hai ki dono me se koi jo hai. Srila Prabhupad yadi wo jagah kuch samay baad mile to usko le ya na le, ye kothi jo barabar me hai Gokul ke peeche aur agar le to usme kya banaye. Mai bhi prayatn me hoon. Meri iccha bhi hai, mai bhi ikhhat bhi kar raha hoon uske liye. (In my opinion it will close down. I had a discussion with the Punjab National Bank, Prabhupāda. We told them to take over that place. But they told us that you give it in writing in the 12th court. But I came to know from that Gosai sir, that the permit which they have is in the name of Krishna Balaram temple. The permit which Punjab National Bank has for Srila Prabhupāda is in the name of Krishna Balaram temple. They will move there, then Allahabad Bank will immediately start opposing them. And if it comes to Allahabad Bank, then they will oppose it. This is the position. It means that out of the two who are there. Srila Prabhupāda, if we get that place after some time, then whether to take it or not. This mansion behind Gokual, which is adjacent, if we take it then what shall we construct? I am trying my best. I also wish. I am also collecting for that.)

Prabhupāda: Uske to aur koi lega nahi. Uska ek aadmi hai. (Nobody else will take that. There is one person who belongs to that place.)

Bhagatjī: Aur koi nahi lega. Pehli baat to ye le ya na le. in case kabhi mile to, aap ke vicar. Ladai jitna hai. (Nobody else will take it. First of all, should we take it or not? In case we get it, then what is your opinion?)

Prabhupāda: Abhi hamare paas jagah hai. Uska ek aadmi hai. (Now we have a place. There is a man from there.)

Bhagatjī: Nahi wo grahast asram banane ke liye pehle aapka aadesh tha. Hum . . . hain to kuch devotees jo brindavan me hain permanently rehne me bichare idahar-udhar mare dolte hain. Wo wahan reh kar agar wo log le lein to le lein sir. (No, initially it was your order to construct a household ashram for the householders. We . . . some devotees are there who want to stay permanently but roam around here and there searching for a place to stay. If they can take it and stay there, then let them sir.)

Prabhupāda: Kitne devotees hain? (How many devotees are there?)

Bhagatjī: Kum se kum mere khyal me 4-6 couples hai jo grahsti hain jo tayyar hain. Kabhi mujse baat karte hain. Pata nahi aap ki anumati ke. Tapariya house me paryapt jagah nahi hai Srila Prabhupad. (I think there are 4 to 6 couples who are householders and who are ready. They sometimes talk with me. I don't know without your permission. In the Taparia house there is not enough space.)

Prabhupāda: Jo hai GBC meeting kar do. (Whatever it is, call for a GBC meeting.)

Bhagati: Thik hai. (Okay.)

Bali-mardana: Yes, the GBC men are coming.

Bhagatjī: You understand? That place, I'm talking about that place, whether we should take it or not. Prabhupāda said . . .

Bali-mardana: I think Prabhupāda's . . . the GBC are coming here, so let them consider. Make a presentation. Gopāla is coming in a day or two. By tomorrow he should be coming. Because Prabhupāda, now it's too much for him to think about it now. (aside) Scratch with your nails.

Haṁsadūta: Prabhupāda, you've become so thin. You've become so thin. You have to become better.

Bhagatjī: Prabhupada aaj subah se kuch thodi se ab kuch aaram hai, subah to bahut halat aise thee Prabhupada. (Prabhupāda, since the morning are you feeling a little better? In the morning your condition was very bad Prabhupāda.)

Prabhupāda: Khansi kam hai, nahi hai. (Cough has reduced, it is not there.) (pause) (break)

Bhagatji: Khansi nahi hai ab. lekin subah aap bade ghabara rahe the, bola nahi ja raha tha aap se. Main to dekhne chala aaya. (You don't have a cough now. But in the morning you were very anxious, you were not able to speak. I came to see you.)

Prabhupada: Horlicks piya, dudh piye khansi nahi gaya tab to theek hai. (I had horlicks, I had milk but the cough did not reduce but now it is okay.)

Bhagatji: Dudh ka bada zor de rahe hain hakim ji. dudh kehte hain ki yahan jo fresh dudh wo aapko bada labhdayak hoga. bar-bar yehi kehte hain ki wohi strength dega aapko. (The physician is stressing a lot on milk. The milk which we get fresh here is very beneficial for you. Everytime he says, that will give strength to you.)

Prabhupada: Abhi . . . khansi. (Now . . . cough.)

Bhagatji: To ek ad dafa pi ke dekhe, agar . . . to band kar denge. agar apko hajam ho jaye to uske baad me thoda-thoda aur badhayenge 1 ounce, phir 2 ounce ke rahe the. (So have it once or twice and observe . . . otherwise we will stop. If you are able to digest then we will increase it by 1 ounce then 2 ounces, this is what they were saying.)

Prabhupada: Kal karo. (Do it tomorrow.)

Bhagatji: Aachi baat hai. Aur aapka butter ka aadesh hua tha, butter banau mai savere, aur dahi bhi lenge, chach lenge, dahi na sahi chach thodi si usko. dahi to apko labh na karega kyonki bhari vastu hai thodi. chach dahi butter nikal ke doo, chach jo reh jati hai wo labh karega apko shayad, namak -mirch milake thodi. (It is fine. You had requested for butter, shall I make butter in the morning? And you will have curd also, you will have whey. If not curd then have a little whey. Curd will not do you good because it is heavy to digest. Shall I remove the butter and give you the whey which is left after making the butter? That will do you good I think, add a little salt and spice.)

Prabhupada: . . . (indistinct Hindi)

Bhagatji: Bahut accha. (Okay fine.)

Hari-śauri: Of course, you have so many disciples around the world who are always praying for your health, so ten brāhmins would not achieve very much. He repeated also what he said before, that the period up until next March would be very difficult time.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Hari-śauri: He said that up until next March, that would be a very difficult time. But if Your Divine Grace goes beyond that time, then for three or four years, then health will return.

Prabhupāda: Back side itching.

Hari-śauri: All the back?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Hari-śauri: Are these astrological charts very much applicable for a devotee, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No.

Hari-śauri: Because Kṛṣṇa can do anything.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Tamāla Kṛṣṇa. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Don't waste money for this astrology.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hmm. Yeah. In London when we were going to get the astrologer to do, when I heard it was expensive, then we cancelled. How much money he is asking here?

Hari-śauri: He didn't say a price. He said it would take two days or three days to do Prabhupāda's . . . to do a detailed chart.

Prabhupāda: It is useless. Better arrange as many hours as possible to chant kīrtana. That is . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Today we did kīrtana starting in the afternoon till the evening. So do you want more than that?

Prabhupāda: I can hear day and night.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So should we arrange . . .? Maybe we should arrange starting in the morning going till night.

Prabhupāda: That is according to your convenience. But kīrtana is very sweet.

Hari-śauri: Last June we were doing twenty-four hours.

Prabhupāda: That is real business. These astrologer are karmīs. We have nothing to do with the karmī.

Hari-śauri: Their measurement of happiness and distress is how much nice wife and children they get and how much money they get.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhāgavata reading and kīrtana. Hmm. Hmm.

Hari-śauri: They don't understand that the real happiness is giving everything to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Don't waste time and money in any other way.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes I find that you're sleeping, Śrīla Prabhupāda. So I was just wondering—at night, when you do most of your sleeping, whether we should still do kīrtana. I was thinking that we could do it say up until nine o'clock at night and then begin in the morning again.

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You'd like it to be throughout the night?

Prabhupāda: Um-hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. We'll have enough people here so that we can do it. We will start this tomorrow, Śrīla Prabhupāda, tomorrow morning, because it's difficult to arrange now. Most of the devotees have begun to take rest.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll definitely like it, though, because they like to be with you.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I also.

Hari-śauri: Within one or two days every GBC and sannyāsī will be here to come and do kīrtana.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They've come to take care of you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, so many fathers.

Prabhupāda: Please do that.

Hari-śauri: That is our greatest pleasure.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some very nice telegrams came. Should I read them to you?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're very nice, from your disciples. (break) "Marathon to petition Lord Kṛṣṇa for your rapid recovery. The results were a total of 70,122 books distributed."

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says, "87,000 points on the saṅkīrtana for the week."

Hari-śauri: Phew! Eight-seven thousand?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. It says: "This is the new all-time record for the most books ever made distributed in one week by any temple in the history of the Society, and we pray that this news will please you. And we humbly beg you to remain with us for many more years."

Prabhupāda: Who sends?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was sent by the devotees in London, Śrīla Prabhupāda, who you were with. You went to them for two weeks, and they developed so much attachment, they all went out all the time to distribute books for one solid week. They distributed over seventy thousand different types of books in one week's time, the London devotees. They said this was their way of petitioning Lord Kṛṣṇa to please cure you.

Prabhupāda: Where is Upendra?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Upendra? He went out. (aside) You want to get Upendra? There are more telegrams. That was a telegram. Should I read the others?

Prabhupāda: Um-hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This one is from . . . you know Candanācārya? He writes, "Dear Śrīla Prabhupāda, please accept our obeisances. We all wish we could come and be with you at this time, and we are all praying day and night for your speedy recovery. If you leave now, what will happen to us? Hare Kṛṣṇa," he said.

Hari-śauri: Here is Upendra.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Upendra is here.

Prabhupāda: You can itch back side.

Upendra: Itch?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Scratch. Śrīla Prabhupāda? I think that on behalf of Lord Kṛṣṇa you can take service from the whole world. At least, we all want to serve you so much. Next is a letter, telegram, rather, from . . . this one is from Berkeley temple, New Jagannātha Purī. It says: "Dear Śrīla Prabhupāda, please accept our fallen obeisances. Please excuse our offenses. By your potency, every single magazine is distributed this weekend. This weekend we distributed 4,888 big books and 15,063 magazines. We are praying for your health to improve. Your worthless servants at New Jagannātha Purī." It seems, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that even in your illness you're increasing the preaching.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There was . . . Śrīla Prabhupāda? Paramānanda has come to India.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He'll be coming to Vṛndāvana soon. So you know his wife, mother Satyabhāmā?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She sent you a gift. Do you want to see it?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it's something that she made for you. Should I bring it?

Prabhupāda: I shall see it tomorrow.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Anyway, all of the devotees all over the world are simply praying now. They have been placed into great transcendental anxiety, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They are simply praying for your recovery. Do you think that this powder has been successful, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Not yet.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) But now it is very dry, so what does that mean? That we have to apply fresh again? Or even when it's dry does it have effect? (pause) Śrīla Prabhupāda, I was thinking to take rest now. It's about 9:30. Is that all right?

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll be in the next room if you want me for anything. (end)