771014 - Conversation A - Vrndavana

Conversations by Date, 1977

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

771014R1-VRNDAVAN - October 14, 1977 - 82:46 Minutes

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How are you feeling this morning, Śrīla Prabhupāda? You haven't passed any urine for quite awhile. What is the reason for that?

Prabhupāda: I think I have.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. According to the chart, you haven't passed any urine for about eight or nine hours, ten hours, nearly ten hours.

Prabhupāda: I am trying to pass urine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Have you tried? You feel like it now? You want to try? I'll fix up the bottle. Okay. (break) (kīrtana) Yes, Prabhupāda? It's Tamāla Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That sweet lemon juice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want some? Okay. (aside) Sweet lemon juice. Tell Bhakti-caru. It's coming in one second, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He liked that, those lemons, sweet lemons. Here's Bhakti-caru.

Bhakti-caru: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Today I like to take ḍāl-roṭī.

Bhakti-caru: Ḍāl-roṭī? Ācchā, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Pisima eschen. (Pisima has come.)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's Pisimā. You want to see her?

Prabhupāda: She cannot hear me.

Bhakti-caru: Accha, ami bole debo apni ya bolben Śrīla Prabhupāda. (Okay Śrīla Prabhupāda I will explain to her whatever you said.)

Prabhupāda: Ei . . . bes. Ki dal korbe? (Well, which dal will you prepare?)

Bhakti-caru: Ah! Apni bolle apnar yeta iccha. Mung dal korbo ki? (Whatever you want. Shall I prepare mung dal?) (to Pisima) Śrīla Prabhupāda ajke dal-roti khete caiche. (Śrīla Prabhupāda wants to eat dal roti today.)

Pisima: Dal-roti?

Bhakti-caru: Dal-ruti. Ki dal khele bhalo hobe? (Yes, Dal roti. Which dal will be good for him?)

Prabhupāda: Khete icche korche kolai dal. (I want to eat kolai dal.)

Bhakti-caru: Khete iccha korche kolai dal? Accha Śrīla Prabhupāda. (You want to eat kolai dal? Okay Śrīla Prabhupāda.)

Pisima: Kolai dal?

Bhakti-caru: Kolai dal.

Pisima: Tar sange ruti? (Roti with this?)

Bhakti-caru: Hya, ruti. (Yes, roti.)

Pisima: Bhalo lagbe? (Will it taste good?)

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Pisima: Kolai dal ki bhalo lagbe ruti diye? Cholar dal? Ya bhalo tai koredi. (Will kolai dal taste good with roti? What about cholar dal? Okay, whatever is good I'm going to prepare.)

Prabhupāda: Tahole, cholar dal. (Then, cook cholar dal.)

Bhakti-caru: Accha! Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Oi hing ting diye. (Use some asafoetida as well.)

Bhakti-caru: Accha!

Prabhupāda: Ar ek-adh khana . . . (And one or half . . .)

Bhakti-caru: Roti.

Prabhupāda: Ek khana age khabo. (First I will eat one piece.)

Bhakti-caru: Accha!

Prabhupāda: Beshi naram. (Very soft.)

Bhakti-caru: Hya, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.)

Prabhupāda: Ei . . . ar faler ras. (This and fruit juice.)

Bhakti-caru: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda liked that fruit juice.

Prabhupāda: Eisob. (All this.)

Bhakti-caru: Accha! Śrīla Prabhupāda. Ekhon ektu faler ras di. (Let me give you fruit juice now.)

Prabhupāda: Sakale kheyechi. (I drank that in the morning.)

Bhakti-caru: Hya, ami diyechilam Śrīla Prabhupāda. Arek bar debo? Ota to ek ghanta hoye geche. (Yes, I gave that to you Śrīla Prabhupāda. Shall I give it to you once more? Because it's been one hour.)

Prabhupāda: Kato bejeche? (What's the time now?)

Bhakti-caru: Ekhon pone aat ta baje Śrīla Prabhupāda. Oi takhan faler ras kheyechilen, pray der ghanta hoye geche Śrīla Prabhupāda. (Now it's 7:45 Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's been an hour and a half since you took the fruit juice, Śrīla Prabhupāda.)

Prabhupāda: Oh! Na, ekhon na. (No, not now.)

Bhakti-caru: Accha! Ektu Yamunar jal di? (Shall I give you Yamuna water?)

Pisima: Ki khabe? (What will he eat?)

Bhakti-caru: Ekhon kichu khabe na . . . (He won't eat anything now . . .)

(indistinct background discussion among devotees)

Prabhupāda: Are ektu ektu jal dao. (Please give me little.)

Bhakti-caru: Accha! Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Ar tel diye, ei sobi kore (And after preparing all this with oil . . .)

Bhakti-caru: Tel diye? (With oil?)

Pisima: Sandes khabe? (Will you eat sandesh?)

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Bhakti-caru: Pisima jijnes korchen sandesh khaben? (Pisima is asking, will you eat sandesh?)

Prabhupāda: Na. (No.)

Bhakti-caru: Ekhon na. (Not now.)

Pisima: Hm?

Bhakti-caru: Ekhon khete caichen na. (He doesn't want to eat now.)

Prabhupāda: Sandesha. Oi faler ras. Ar ekbar oi dal-ruti. (That fruit juice. And one dal roti.)

Bhakti-caru: Accha! Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Tarpore tumi ye mantra jano . . . (indistinct) . . . nrsimha mantra jano? Mantra paro, paro. (The mantra you know . . . (indistinct) . . . do you know the Narasimha mantra? Say the mantra, please utter it.)

Bhakti-caru: Ah! Pisima apni ye nrsimha-mantra janen sei mantra ta pore . . . (Pisima, the Narasimha mantra which you know, read that . . .) (to Prabhupāda) Ki korben Śrīla Prabhupāda? Buke tel . . . (What will you do Śrīla Prabhupāda? Oil on the chest . . .)

Prabhupāda: Tel lagabe (I will apply oil.)

Bhakti-caru: Accha! Oi mantrata . . . oi mantrata bole . . . hya. (That mantra . . . by uttering that mantra . . . yes.) Pisima knows a nṛsiṁha-mantra. Prabhupāda wants that she chants that mantra.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: While she's cooking.

Bhakti-caru: No. At the massaging. (to Prabhupada) Buke malis . . . mantra ta bole buke malis korben . . . ki kore mantra ta bolben? (Chest massage . . . you hate to utter the mantra while massaging his chest . . . how will you say the mantra?)

Prabhupāda: O jane. (She knows.)

Bhakti-caru: Accha! Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Can I wash your face now and wash your mouth? It's about . . . nearly eight o'clock.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll get the water ready. Okay. (kīrtana)

Prabhupāda: (indistinct Bengali) . . . bolche. (saying.)

Bhakti-caru: Hm.

Prabhupāda: Apni vaisnavi, apnake thik samay pathiye diyeche, apni chesta kore, bacabar chesta karun. (You are a vaisnavi, and you have been sent at the right time, so please try. Please try to save his life.)

Bhakti-caru: Accha! Śrīla Prabhupāda. (to Pisima) Śrīla Prabhupāda bolchen ye apni vaisnavi, Bhagavan apnake thik samay pathiyechen apni onake bachaben. (Śrīla Prabhupāda is saying that God has sent you here at the right time so you can save him.)

Pisima: Hm?

Bhakti-caru: Apni onake bacanor ceshta korun. (Please try to save his life.) (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . arrangements have been made. First I saw where they are taking prasādam: first class, all long tables in a big room, long tables, tablecloths, and proper plates, knife, fork, spoon. Perfect for them. Nice fans, very gorgeous-looking curtains. Everything real . . .

Prabhupāda: So why . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . proper.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really high class. And serving kacaurīs, hot jalebīs, all nice preparations. And our men, oh, they look very, very scientific. (laughter) They're wearing shirt, coat and pants. Svarūpa Dāmodara looks like a scientist now. He has transformed himself. All of them, Mādhava . . . they all look, Sadāpūta and Jñāna dāsa, they all look very . . .

Prabhupāda: Elegant.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very elegant. All the scientists who are attending, they're dressed a little informally. But our men are very formal. They have the ties on. Everybody has a badge. All the people who are attending have a special badge mentioning the scientific conference's name and the individual person's name. That's in one place. Then in another room is the conference room. It was the room where we were going to have the bank there. Really big room with fancy backdrop. Some decorator has come and made a very fancy backdrop with a big . . . there's a long table and podium with microphones and very nice seats. In the dining hall all the seats have special white linen cloths over all the chairs. Very fresh-looking and clean. And in the other room it's very cool. There's curtains so that the sun can't come in, and now there's a big yajña going on. Yaśodānandana Mahārāja and the gurukula boys are inaugurating the conference by chanting Sanskrit mantras, and some of the scientists are . . . actually they were very amazed to see how our men could chant like that. The whole building is first class for this purpose. When we build this Bhaktivedanta Institute Hall . . . I mean I . . . it's the most wonderful idea to have this conference here, Śrīla Prabhupāda. These scientists, they're going to be converted to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I was certain of it by seeing these arrangements. They never could have . . . they're being tricked.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So it's wonderful.

Prabhupāda: How many scientists have come?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't know. There must be somewhere between fifty and a hundred. But I mean they're expecting . . . today is a working day. It's Friday. Tomorrow and Sunday everyone is going to come. Everyone wants to come. They consider it prestigious to come here, because the whole thing is being done on an international level.

Prabhupāda: Svarūpa Dāmodara . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughing) He's your top preacher. I could see that in the future this man . . . he's the most important preacher, because people are basing everything on these rascal scientists. I think this is only one of your many plans, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There's no doubt that you have to make every effort to get back to health. This is only one plan, and I'm seeing . . . it's really inconceivable how these scientists . . . I never thought to see such people walking into Vṛndāvana. Who would have ever expected it? They all look like Darwin's representatives. But our men look even more scientific than they do. That's the best part of it. And then, although they are dressed in shirt . . . even though Svarūpa Dāmodara is in shirt, coat and pants, he has a big tilaka on, and mallikā.

Prabhupāda: That is wanted.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good. And then our sannyāsīs look so nice. There's Akṣayānanda Mahārāja and Bhakti-prema Swami. They were both there, very nicely dressed, with daṇḍas. It's really . . . the whole thing is complete. They get to stay in a nice guesthouse. Then there will be building of Bhaktivedanta Institute Hall. All of these things are a complete arrangement. I think these men are surprised to see that how such a thing has sprung up, and they had not been aware of it before. And when they see these books, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that the scientists have written, I think that will floor these men. They will be completely amazed to see it. Normally, if anyone else dared to do such a thing as this, to prove by science that life comes from life, it would be a very immature attempt by some religious person, and it would not have very much weight. But here they are coming face to face with people who are actually scientists, and they will not be able to deny our arguments. I think that your Guru Mahārāja is very pleased with this program, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: I have given the ideas. Now you give the shape.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We want some more ideas also. You have to give enough ideas for at least ten thousand years. (Prabhupāda chuckles softly) This is a great idea, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It really is. It's wonderful. I think that each year, if we hold one conference, at least one in Vṛndāvana, it gradually will become one of the main events of the scientific community of northern India. No doubt about it. In fact I'm certain that people will be begging to be able to come. There'll be big competition for who is able to be given the permission to come and the reservation in the guesthouse. I think we'll have to build many guesthouses here.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We shall do.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And also I took darśana of Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma, and Lord Balarāma's club looks like it will destroy anyone (Prabhupāda chuckles) who dares to interfere with Kṛṣṇa's plan. He has a very big club, silver, all silver. And many people were coming, many pilgrims. Just you were asking me whether there's many people coming as when we were previously here. There are as many. The temple was very much crowded with people having darśana. I could tell that some of the people were pāṇḍās, the guides. They have to bring everyone to this temple, because the people want to see Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma Mandir. People were making a lot of expressions of joy to see Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma. They were very surprised to see how beautiful They were appearing. And also Rādhā-Śyāmasundara is very big attraction, because that boy dresses Them very beautifully. All the Deities look very nice today. They look especially happy about this science conference, I think. If we do this in Bombay also, Śrīla Prabhupāda, it will be tremendous success. I think that Kṛṣṇa postponed . . .

Prabhupāda: Bhakti-caru?

Bhakti-caru: Hya, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.)

Prabhupāda: Tumi ektu khani pith ta barao culkao. (You just scratch my back a little.)

Bhakti-caru: Hya. Culkabo na emni malis kore debo? (Yes. Should I scratch or massage you?)

Prabhupāda: Culkao. (Just scratch.)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It might be that Kṛṣṇa postponed the opening of Bombay to get you . . . so that you could have enough time to get a little health. It could be.

Prabhupāda: Jore karo. (Make it harder.)

Bhakti-caru: Erakam? (Like this?)

Prabhupāda: Hm. He has arranged alone.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Svarūpa Dāmodara? Yes. This is his single-handed attempt. Of course, the others have worked very hard also for writing the books and getting them printed. But this arrangement locally practically is his. He's worked very hard—Agra and Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Jore. Khub jore karo. (Harder. Make it very hard.)

Bhakti-caru: Accha! Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Opor-nice. Tel haat diye dao na . . . (indistinct) . . . (kub jore opor nice. Up and down. Give the massage with the oily hand . . . (indistinct) . . . make it a very hard massage, up and down.)

Bhakti-caru: Jore dite bhoy kore yodi . . . (I feel afraid to give a hard massage, if . . .)

Prabhupāda: Are ami bolchi to. (I am asking you to give.)

Bhakti-caru: Accha! Śrīla Prabhupāda. Fruit juice now.

Bhavānanda: All the scientists are taking prasādam now, Prabhupāda—kacaurīs and fruit, sabjī, hot jalebīs.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I saw that yajña that was going on, Yaśodānandana chanting. I mean that hall is first-class looking. Even though this is not the final hall that we'll be building, still, it is one of the nicest decorated halls I have seen, with chandeliers. They rented chandeliers, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I mean it looks very elegant. Everyone is impressed. They never expected. These scientists, they probably think that Vṛndāvana is some forest. I mean, suddenly they came into a scientific conference. And naturally, after the conference, they are attracted to go into the temple, and then they get darśana. And they're taking prasādam. It's wonderful.

Prabhupāda: Up-to-date gentlemen, they hate to come, Vṛndāvana. They know it is a place for guṇḍās. Pāṇḍās means guṇḍās. (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you are expert at preaching to the guṇḍās. Therefore everyone becomes converted by your preaching. We were all guṇḍās. I think that your coming to America was no less fearless than Lord Caitanya when He went into the Jhārikhaṇḍa forest to preach, Śrīla Prabhupāda. In fact, we were worse than the animals that Lord Caitanya had to deal with. At least an animal keeps to his nature. Just like you described that boy that who was taking . . . you were staying in his loft, and he was taking intoxicants. He was acting like . . . you could not calculate what he would do. Animals you can expect something. And you were there alone. Single-handedly, you were walking around in the streets. Sometimes New York is called a jungle.

Bhavānanda: "Asphalt jungle."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Asphalt jungle.

Prabhupāda: Who is come in?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rūpānuga Prabhu is here, Tripurāri Mahārāja, and Ikṣvāku Prabhu and Yadubara Prabhu. Yadubara has brought so much film that he's very hopeful for your recovery so he can use it. He brought so much film to take pictures of you. He and his wife have come. In the kitchen, Pisimā is cooking, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Seeing her cook reminds one of the Kṛṣṇa book, how the ladies in Kṛṣṇa's time were always cooking nice preparations.

Prabhupāda: When the conference begins?

Bhavānanda: Well, it was supposed to begin at 10:30, but it's running a little late because men are still arriving and they're taking prasādam, so I think noontime is . . . we want to let them take prasādam in a easy frame of mind, not rushed. Because they're right here and living with us, so there's no . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The men who have come today, most of them will stay probably for the weekend.

Bhavānanda: Oh, they're all planning to stay for the weekend. There are more on the way.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How do they like the guesthouse facilities?

Bhavānanda: Like very much.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Bhavānanda Mahārāja has organized everything very nicely. He's deputed different men in different places, so it's very nicely organized.

Prabhupāda: So I am thinking now to lay down.

Bhakti-caru: Ācchā Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: Meeting is going on here, and you have gone to Bhagatjī?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I haven't gone yet. I was in the conference for a little while. The scientists took prasādam at about eleven, eleven-thirty. The conference was supposed to start at ten, but it didn't start till about nearly noon. And at the same time, Bhagatjī has apparently arranged a program of prasādam and kīrtana at his house, and it was to be the same time when ordinarily the conference would have halted for lunch. So as the conference began two hours late, now that has upset things a little. Not very much. I mean, I was in the conference for a while, and all the guests are there, scientists are there. Svarūpa Dāmodara Prabhu is giving a lecture. There weren't very many GBC or sannyāsīs there, but I think it was on account of the fact that the conference started so late today. There is another conference this afternoon, as far as I know. And then two more tomorrow and again the next day, and I'm pretty sure that everybody will be attending. I found it very interesting. The only reason I left was that I wanted to know whether I should attend Bhagatjī's lunch or not. He invited everyone and made big arrangement. But I'm your secretary, so I don't want to go unless it's proper to go.

Prabhupāda: How you have accepted invitation today?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The time it was fixed for was the lunchtime of the conference. Another reason Bhagatjī wanted to have it was that he just wanted to have it while everyone was here. But the main thing is that the lunch was supposed to coincide with the lunchtime of the conference. That's the main point. In other words, there was no conflict of the two.

Prabhupāda: Why did you not go there?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why did you not do what, Śrīla Prabhupāda? See, the scientists did not come on time. They did not come on time. They came late. The conference was to begin at ten, but it began at noon. I mean I don't think it's . . . the main point is that the devotees will start to attend probably the afternoon session, because it will be on a more regular schedule again. This was just a very irregular . . . even the scientists . . . there was only thirty of them in the conference, because although more than that have arrived, they haven't yet settled into their quarters. Everything is . . . this first . . . the first lecture is a little like that. Everybody's getting settled in.

Prabhupāda: I do not know what to say.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't know what to say. The devotees should all attend the conference. I think that's the point.

Prabhupāda: Not necessarily. But where the conference is going on or Bhagatjī's feast is going on? This is perplexing me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why it is? Because some of the devotees may leave by next week. So Bhagatjī wanted to have a feast when everyone was here. And I told him to arrange then for Thursday, which was yesterday. But he said that that was not sufficient time. Therefore then I told him, "Then if you can't arrange for Thursday, then the best day is Friday, because Saturday and Sunday are the more important days of the conference." I advised him that the feast should not be held simultaneously with the conference, but he said that there was no . . . (break) In other words, I attended the lecture and the program, but I came out on account of Bhagatjī's invitation. The point is that I . . . the conference should . . . the lecture should have been over by one, according to their program that they published. But on account of the scientists' arriving late, they did not want to push anyone. This was the whole point, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I think it's just a, what would you call it, a circumstantial mistake. It was not planned that the two would . . . one would interfere with the other. And I mean the conference is in no way being interfered with. It's going on.

Prabhupāda: That I want.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The conference is going on. Anybody who's required in the conference is there. But some of the sannyāsīs and GBCs are choosing to go to Bhagatjī's. But the conference people who are involved, they are all at the conference, and many devotees are there also. I think it's all right.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't want you to be disturbed about it. So should I go or not go, Śrīla Prabhupāda, to Bhagatjī's?

Prabhupāda: That you make your choice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "You have to make your choice." (laughs) I think Bhagatjī wants to send you over a plate of prasādam also. I'll inform Svarūpa Dāmodara to come and see you right after his lecture is over, Śrīla Prabhupāda. All right? (break)

Hari-śauri: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Svarūpa Dāmodara is here.

Prabhupāda: So? How things are going on?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Things are going nicely, though we didn't have too many guests today, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I think about a little more than fifty came. Most of them will be coming tomorrow, and Sunday will be all full. 'Cause today is still Friday, and in Delhi all the schools are still open. But we came, quite a few interesting scientists from Delhi. And one had only one question. Otherwise nobody had anything. I spoke for about two hours on the difference between life and matter, and we showed that the science, modern science, actually does not study life. They only study inanimate matter, atoms and molecules. So they think that life could also be just atoms and molecules. But we showed that that is wrong, and they shouldn't propagate this false idea. Especially in India, I especially made a request to all the scholars, saying that, "You should take this very seriously, and we should try to expose this in genuine spirit of knowledge to all over the world," because the Western science and technology, we tend to think that everything is the absolute truth because science is coming from the West. But we're saying that that is too narrow-minded. We should be a little broad-minded and we should also consider other possible alternatives. And we demonstrated that modern science actually cannot explain about the nature of life. So we requested that in the coming two days we'll establish this on a more scientific basis, that this is not just religious dogma; it is based on complete, genuine, scientific knowledge.

Prabhupāda: So where they are staying?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They're staying all in the guesthouse.

Prabhupāda: And their food?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Prasādam is served in that big hall where we were planning to have the bank. No, the garage. It is very clean. It is all decorated. And we have tables and chairs. We have in a buffet style. Also devotees have been serving.

Prabhupāda: And where the conference is being held?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Conference is held in that bank room. So we had about 150 chairs in that hall. We have displayed Śrīla Prabhupāda's books with the bronze bust, nicely arranged, all the books. And we also have Śrīla Prabhupāda's picture from Bhaktivedanta Manor, that enlarged picture. It's very nice. We have that on the background. Then we have also the recording systems. Everything is recorded. We also had some men from radio . . . five men came from radio, All-India Radio. They recorded. So everything seems to be going nicely, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Thank you. That's all.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Gurukṛpā: This is one schedule. It's call the First International Life Comes From Life Conference, and they've put out their schedule of the program as they're presenting it. Right now they're doing a one and a half hour discussion by this Dr. M. Marchetti. That's at five o'clock.

Hari-śauri: That's Mādhava dāsa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's not what they're doing right now.

Gurukṛpā: No. Right now they're doing Darwin's theory and the past history of life, Dr. Cohen.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That's Bob Cohen, Śrīla Prabhupāda. That Peace Corps . . .

Hari-śauri: Brahmavati.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Brahma-tīrtha.

Hari-śauri: Oh, Brahma-tīrtha, sorry.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When I was sitting there just now . . . I mean, I suggested a lot of things which can improve the presentation. One of the big problems is the microphone system they have is very cheap. They rented some. So I suggested that they take the temple microphone system for the next few days, which is a very good one, and use that, because it's very hard to hear clearly.

Prabhupāda: Why not immediately?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, right in the middle of the conference . . . they can do it for the evening one. They can probably change it by 5:30. Another thing is that these men, these scientists of ours, they are just beginning to practice speaking. Just like our sannyāsīs, we get to speak in the temples practically all the time. But these men are new at lecturing. So they require further practice in their presentation to make it very interesting—which they will get automatically by doing what they are doing. Another really important thing, I feel, is that I think it would be much more interesting if someone with an opposing opinion were to speak first, say, some Indian . . . some other scientist we could invite who would speak on the same subject but from a different point of view. Then our man would speak from the Kṛṣṇa conscious point of view. Then people could ask questions. Because the audience, I think, very much appreciates when there's a little bit of, er, I don't know how to explain it—a dialogue.

Gurukṛpā: Refutations.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A debate.

Mādhava: They have such a speaker in physics. He's going to speak that life comes from matter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. That's good. Because otherwise . . . I looked at the audience this afternoon. First of all, there weren't that many. There was only about fifteen men attending this afternoon's lecture.

Gurukṛpā: Scientists, fifteen.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, fifteen scientists. There were devotees. Our sannyāsīs, GBC men were there. And I looked at them, and some of them weren't that interested, mainly because it's just . . . it's just too one-sided, I think. There's not enough action going on to keep their attention. I'm going to speak . . . I haven't spoken to Svarūpa Dāmodara yet. I'm going to right now. I spoke to Rūpānuga, who was in the back, because he's helping to organize. I think it's very good, because gradually, as we hold more conferences, they'll learn to improve their presentation. This is why Svarūpa Dāmodara wanted to begin in India, so that when he finally got to the West he'd be very strong and everything would be very good. Here it's a little easier.

Prabhupāda: So not all the doctors who . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. In other words, there's a big enough program so that . . . they pick which conference they want to come to. They don't come to every lecture. They may only come to one or two in a day. Today I think there's three. Right? Three lectures? So probably they might attend one or two of them. Of course, some people might attend all of them.

Bhavānanda: Also, many more are coming on Sunday. They're coming through the whole conference. Tomorrow more are coming, and Sunday is the biggest day.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All in all, though, it's still very impressive and very much encouraging. It's just like everything—it takes practice. This is the first of its kind. So for being the first, it's very nice. And it certainly is well organized. That's a fact. Everything is there—good guesthouse, nice prasādam and qualified speakers. You can see our men are very . . . they must be presenting thousands of facts. I mean every sentence they are backing up with some quotation or some substantial reference. They are very well prepared for these lectures. I think that they'll simply become better.

Prabhupāda: But other parties, they are not taking interest.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Other parties means?

Prabhupāda: Opposition.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, well, I haven't heard very much opposition.

Gurukṛpā: He asked, "Is there any questions?" but no one really . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. He asked, "Is there any questions?" but no one really . . . it's got to be set up in a different way, in my opinion. There has to be from the beginning an opportunity for an opposing speaker to speak.

Gurukṛpā: Yes. This man isn't going to speak until Sunday, the opposition.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But each lecture should have an opposing speaker. That's my point. They should begin with an opposing speaker, and then our man should speak, refuting what he says. And then the audience should be allowed to ask questions of either person who they choose. Then it will become . . . otherwise it's very one-sided. It doesn't appear to be as objective.

Prabhupāda: Dr. Kapoor came?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dr. Kapoor was there this morning. I was not there during the part where he spoke, but apparently he spoke some Māyāvādī philosophy, this Dr. O.B.L. Kapoor.

Gurukṛpā: He said that everything is made of molecules, and molecules are invisible; therefore actually everything is invisible. Therefore everything is like a dream; everything is unreal. (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is the result of all of his years of study in order to write his book. He's become a Māyāvādī. Or at least his . . . Mādhava dāsa, our Mādhava dāsa, he got up and completely defeated him.

Gurukṛpā: If everything is invisible, then he should also become invisible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Acyutānanda Mahārāja said: "Then someone should have got up and said: 'Then why are you speaking if it is all a dream? Why are you even talking? Then your talking is also a dream, so why not sit down?' "

Bhavānanda: He said: "If everything is invisible, then how about me taking this invisible chair and smashing it over your invisible head?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughing) Doctor Kapoor is really something.

Prabhupāda: He has become Māyāvādī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (laughter) Does that sound possible? It sounds possible, doesn't it? Yes.

Gurukṛpā: He said before he met His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta that he was a Māyāvādī. Now he's still a Māyāvādī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, he gave up his . . . he became part of this Nitāi-Gaura-Rādhe-Śyāma group. And how genuine could he be to do that? Anyway, no one took him very seriously.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No one took him very seriously, especially after Mādhava dāsa smashed his nonsense point. Of course, he did it very nicely, Mādhava dāsa. Because he's a scientist, he did it in a very tasteful way, scientifically proved that what he said was wrong.

Bhavānanda: Prabhupāda? You haven't taken very much liquid today, only 200 cc's of juice, not counting the Yāmuna-jāl. Would you like us to make you up some juice, pomegranate juice?

Prabhupāda: That juice is good, lime.

Bhavānanda: Lime.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . do some kīrtana? Do you want to know more about the conference?

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think we'll give you another report later on. It's successful. That's a fact. Only these are suggestions how it can be improved. We'll speak with Svarūpa Dāmodara about it. (break) . . . from the devotees in France, Bhagavān's zone. In fact, it's a four-page telegram. Should I read it? It says: "Dear Śrīla Prabhupāda, please accept our most humble obeisances at your lotus feet. Knowing how dear your book distribution is to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the devotees in France would like to humbly offer you the results of our week-long marathon saṅkīrtana, hoping in some way to please you." Śrīla Prabhupāda? The devotees there, they went out on book distribution for twelve hours every day. All the devotees. They went out every day for seven days in a row, for twelve hours each day. And here is the results of their distribution. This is only for this one temple in France. It says: "We have distributed 25,061 hard-cover Bhagavad-gītās in one week." Twenty-five thousand, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We usually print of a Bhāgavatam 20,000 for the whole society. They distributed 25,000 Gītās in one week in French, Bhagavad-gītās in French. He says: ". . . to the conditioned souls of this country in seven days. We hope that these results are the biggest in the history of your movement and that they will give you some solace. Our top distributor were Bhakta Richard . . ." (laughter) Somebody who isn't initiated yet. ". . . who distributed 1,504 big books in one week." Every day he distributed over two hundred hard-cover books. That's pretty good. (laughter) That means he did about say 240 in twelve hours. He distributed about one book every three minutes for twelve hours in a row, Śrīla Prabhupāda, every day. "Jagad-vaśī dāsa, who distributed 1,125 big books; Ariṣṭa-nāśana dāsa, 864 books; Veśa-kīrti dāsa, 851 big books; Akhileśvara dāsa, 835 big books; Kṛpā-siddha dāsa, 760 big books." Then they say: "Thank you for allowing us to assist you in preaching this message of Lord Caitanya in the Western countries. All glories to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Your humble servants, the devotees in France." Pretty big distribution. Bhagavān estimates that they collected over sixty thousand dollars in one week. It's amazing. Seems like Kṛṣṇa's giving unlimited facilities to spread His glories, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We do not want liberation. We want to serve the purpose of the Gosvāmīs, in association with pure devotees. To stop birth and death is not our purpose. Tāṅdera caraṇa-sebi-bhakta-sane bās, janame janame hoy . . . (Nāma-saṅkīrtana 7) (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, if you get stronger, then on our way to America this next time you can go via France and stay in the Chateau. The French devotees this last time were not able to get your darśana, because they were busy distributing your books. So they all feel very confident that you will certainly bestow your mercy on them and stop in France next time. Bhagavān said that the cows are giving very sweet milk there. I think there there is also Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma.

Bhagavān: Yes, there's also Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. They were installed last year. (break) (kīrtana)

Hari-śauri: Here's your drink, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Bhagavān: That Dr. Kapoor got up after Svarūpa Dāmodara's speech today and he said that actually it was very nice that Svarūpa Dāmodara had organized this program, but actually it was not necessary, because the whole problem can be solved very easily when we understand there is no such thing as matter.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Bhagavān: He was preaching the philosophy that this material world is false. He was getting up there and saying that actually this table does not exist. (laughs) Nothing actually exists. He said the table is made of molecules, and the molecules are invisible. Therefore the table is also invisible.

Abhirāma: What was the scientists' reaction to that?

Bhagavān: He just spoke right before the thing closed. Svarūpa Dāmodara tried to point out how there is a difference between matter and spirit in that one can definitely see the difference between a living body and a dead body. But he didn't actually go in too much detail to defeat his arguments. But I was very surprised that he would come up with such a Māyāvādī statement, that brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā philosophy. There are not so many scientists there today, maybe twenty. (kīrtana) (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . let me pass. (pause)

Hari-śauri: If you're here with us, then that's all we need. Then we can go out and do anything.

Prabhupāda: Tomorrow shall I take the risk of taking little milk?

Hari-śauri: Generally when you take milk it causes lot of difficulty with mucus. This sweet lime juice, that seems to be doing some good, though. Perhaps it might be better to not take the milk for a little while until your system becomes more healthy.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: Is there any difficulty from the solid food?

Prabhupāda: No taste.

Hari-śauri: No taste. But at least it may give some strength back.

Prabhupāda: How it can if it cannot enter into the system?

Hari-śauri: It's not being digested? If you were to take something like soup, that may be more easily digestible, just the liquids. But that would have much of the goodness . . .

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Hari-śauri: Things like soup and vegetable juices?

Prabhupāda: Cannot take. No taste. (pause)

Hari-śauri: At least with the chanting, that gives a higher taste.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. What is the time now?

Hari-śauri: About twenty minutes to six.

Prabhupāda: It will continue up to six.

Hari-śauri: Yes. Mādhava dāsa is speaking right now. Mādhava dāsa. He was speaking when I went there. There's not so many people there right now. Only about a half a dozen of the visitors were there. (break)

Śatadhanya: So we all became very much enlivened from this conference. I think that it has very great potential for preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world, because they cannot challenge. Even Svarūpa Dāmodara, he asked, "Can anybody debate?" And all the scientists were quiet. They could not offer any challenge. So it's very effective, a very good means to preach, and we all became enlivened by attending this conference.

Prabhupāda: What is the time now?

Hari-śauri: Five past six, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why don't you come around this side? They are all dressed in their shirt and ties, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They looked just like the scientists.

Prabhupāda: Give them chair.

Hari-śauri: Chairs.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We're all right, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We're comfortable.

Prabhupāda: You have got coat-pant. Sit down at the . . .

Hari-śauri: Prabhupāda said you've got coat and pant. He was concerned about whether you should sit or . . .

Prabhupāda: So sit down. Sit down on the chair.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bring some chairs, Tapomāyā. Bring those chairs. Actually, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they are all right, I think.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. There are other . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda's mercy. (sound of devotees moving chairs) Push that chair down. One more is coming. Svarūpa Dāmodara, sit down.

Prabhupāda: You'll get one corner light.

Hari-śauri: Get the white light.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See how they're all dressed, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Nice-looking.

Hari-śauri: Shirt and tie.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And tilaka.

Prabhupāda: Now you are seated comfortably?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We're comfortable.

Prabhupāda: So?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So, we are learning, Śrīla Prabhupāda. This is our first conference. And we . . . we are confident that we can do it.

Prabhupāda: Who is seated over . . .?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is Brahma-tīrtha. He's the Perfect Questions, Perfect Answers, one of the authors. Next to him is Sadāpūta, who wrote two books on quantum physics and the laws of consciousness, demonstration by mathematics that life cannot arise from matter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I read you that in London, Śrīla Prabhupāda. That was Sadāpūta's book that we read in London.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And next to him is Mādhava. His body is like mine—small. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: So?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we are making points that modern science doesn't know life.

Prabhupāda: No, you are making point, but there is no reaction from the other side?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Not so many.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Most of them actually agreed to what we say. On Sunday we may have some interesting . . . first somebody is going to speak against us. There's one Dr. Malvia from Agra. He's a biochemist. He's going to speak against us. Also Dr. Mishra from All-India Institute Medical Sciences, he's going to speak. He's not exactly against, but he's a Māyāvādī, heavily Māyāvādī oriented. Also he tries to compromise the modern scientific concept with the Vedic ideas, which is actually not what we're trying to do. So on Sunday also I'm planning to have about an hour and half as discussion, completely open to all the participants. So on Sunday we expect a little lively discussion.

Jñāna: The pressmen were very favorable.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, we also had press conference today. So they told me that they'd like to release, so we have to summarize what we have said today so that they can print it in the newspapers.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which newspapers came?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: From Mathurā the Times of India came. I think five?

Jñāna: There were five reporters here today.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Five reporters. Also from All-India Radio they came.

Jñāna: They're coming again on Sunday.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. And the press people are coming on tomorrow also, day after tomorrow. So we'll try to summarize what we have studied today and try to print it nicely in the newspapers. I requested them that this is a great responsibility for the newsmen to do this genuine scientific propaganda. So I requested them they should cooperate with us. They said that they will do it. I also requested the members of the delegate to kindly attend our temple functions. Right now I think they are in the ārati, sandhyā-ārati.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. So let them.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. And then we have prasādam at seven o'clock. Then I'm going to show Hare Kṛṣṇa film.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What are you serving at seven? What kind of prasādam?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We have nice prasādam. I don't remember the menu, but I think they are very satisfied with the prasādam program that we have.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then after prasādam?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: After the prasādam we are going to show movies on the "Spiritual Frontier" in the hall on our Fairchild.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why not on a big screen?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, we can also do it on a big scale.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: 'Cause when you have a big . . .

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, actually we can do that.

Hari-śauri: That projects on a big screen.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Dr. Kapoor spoke for about five minutes . . .

Hari-śauri: Māyāvādī.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually, he's very much influenced by Māyāvādī ideas, I realized.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Then later on, he spoke to me that there is some misunderstanding. I told him that this is not what we have learned from Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hmm? (break) (end)