771020 - Conversation A - Vrndavana

Conversations by Date, 1977

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

771020R1-VRNDAVAN - October 20, 1977 - 46:42 Minutes

(Doctor Visit and Conversation)

Dr. Gopal: Vomiting?

Prabhupāda: There was some tendency.

Dr. Gopal: There was some tendency, but you never had.

Prabhupāda: Had little.

Dr. Gopal: You had. Did you feel any difficulty during urination?

Prabhupāda: Not at all.

Dr. Gopal: It is passing without any hesitation.

Prabhupāda: I think so.

Dr. Gopal: How much urine he is passing every time?

Bhavānanda: Here's the book. Urine is here.

Dr. Gopal: This is yesterday. Yesterday total urine output was 290.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hmm. Only.

Bhavānanda: Day before was 495.

Dr. Gopal: It was 495 day before yesterday, and it is 290 only yesterday. Today's total urine is only . . . (indistinct calculating) or something like that.

Prabhupāda: I . . . a little after . . . I have taken miśri water just now.

Dr. Gopal: Miśri water. You like it?

Prabhupāda: Hmm-hmm.

Dr. Gopal: What else you can take?

Prabhupāda: Hari-nāma.

Guest (1): Hari-nāma, hari-nāma. (laughing)

Dr. Gopal: Yes. Yes, I understand. For your body, I can say. Can you take little bit of ice cream or cold custard?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Gopal: (aside) Then please ask somebody to bring it.

Prabhupāda: Best thing hari-nāma.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Best thing.

Prabhupāda: Let me hear Hare Kṛṣṇa . . .

Dr. Gopal: That you can hear.

Prabhupāda: . . . and peacefully pass away.

Dr. Gopal: But I think I am not making any hindrance in your normal routine. And whatever medicine I am giving you, I will cut it down by fifty percent now.

Prabhupāda: If I can pass in that way, that will be very nice.

Dr. Gopal: I think swelling is not there now.

Bhavānanda: This hand, swelling has completely gone.

Dr. Gopal: It is still there, but it is less. Can I see your throat? Say "Ah."

Prabhupāda: Ahhhhhhh.

Dr. Gopal: That's all right. Sometimes he can keep . . .

Bhavānanda: A little while.

Dr. Gopal: Little while.

Bhavānanda: Otherwise, it becomes too uncomfortable.

Dr. Gopal: Does he feel very uncomfortable with this?

Bhavānanda: With his feet raised he feels some discomfort.

Dr. Gopal: Discomfort. (pause) Can you take a little turn either on this side? Did he have these sort of movement yesterday? Did he have this sort of movement yesterday?

Bhavānanda: Today. Yes. We moved his legs and bent his leg and arm.

Dr. Gopal: Yes. So I think that you just give something to eat, and let me know what is the result.

Abhirāma: Here's the . . . we brought custard for you.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Upendra: We're going to give you a little . . . it's custard.

Bhavānanda: Dr. Gopal wants to give you some custard, some cold custard.

Dr. Gopal: I want to see the reaction after that, you have.

Bhavānanda: All right, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Dr. Gopal: You can give two-three . . . (indistinct) . . . so that he can take. Is this three enough to give you taste? I think we just want that Complan, and he just give only custard and ice cream, dhaniyā bread, that's all. Just stick to only these four items now. And then you can increase. Any amount of things, you can . . . how do you feel now? Do you like warm thing or cold thing?

Prabhupāda: Cold are better.

Dr. Gopal: Cold better. Liking is towards cold rather than towards hot.

Guest (1): Ice cream?

Dr. Gopal: Don't worry about this passing of flatus, stools, every time by the urination. You should not worry. Because a scab is still there, this will be unavoidable. Otherwise you can give a little soft enema so that that scab should come out, and so there is no spurious there, a little one is coming out every time with the eating.

Prabhupāda: We are not worried.

Dr. Gopal: So you should not bother about that diarrhea, because he's not having exactly on that proper diet. It is only the part. They are obstructing the free passage of stool because of that scab, dry feces there. So should it come out easily, either by enema or by manually pushing, then it's all right.

Guest (2): They should bowel wash, bowel wash.

Dr. Gopal: So then there will be no problem of this diarrhea. Don't do anything to stop diarrhea.

Bhavānanda: And the restlessness at night? Insomnia?

Dr. Gopal: Insomnia. Yes, he had. Because somebody told me yesterday also it is his usual feature that he doesn't want to sleep, or that he's not sleeping, but he will . . . and it were before. As a routine he's not sleeping. So it may be that it is his habit that he doesn't like to sleep in the night. Because how many times he goes for urination in the night also? Does he go?

Bhavānanda: Yes.

Dr. Gopal: How many times?

Upendra: Once, twice.

Dr. Gopal: Once, twice.

Upendra: Usually twice.

Bhavānanda: Once . . . (indistinct) . . . and once usually when I am on.

Prabhupāda: I . . . I'm feeling nauseous.

Dr. Gopal: You are feeling?

Prabhupāda: After eating.

Dr. Gopal: Yes, after eating. So you just eat. Not as a very frequently. You'll give little amount after every hour or every one and half hour, two hour, small quantities. Small frequent quantities. Frequently small quantities. Not like this—only morning, have breakfast, lunch and the . . . not four times. You can give eight times, ten times, twelve times even. But only little bit. That much only, the amount he can digest easily. It should not come out. And a little of water, either plain water or with the electro powder, you can do.

Bhavānanda: That electro powder will reduce the nausea?

Dr. Gopal: No.

Bhavānanda: Will reduce it?

Guest (2): This will reduce the nausea.

Dr. Gopal: You just give this electro powder. How much you are giving exactly?

Bhavānanda: Usually we give 150 milliliters of water with about 1 measure of the electro powder.

Dr. Gopal: In 150 ml? It will cause a little nausea also. If you . . . do you have cold water?

Jayapatākā: That's too concentrated.

Dr. Gopal: This is concentrated. You should not give so much concentrated. You just, I mean so to say, about six ounce of water . . . you just add less than one spoon, one measureful, of this electro.

Bhavānanda: Six ounces.

Dr. Gopal: In six ounces. And you give just two . . . Do chamach pila diya bad me kuch hoga nahi. (Give him two teaspoons and nothing will happen after that.) Just give two teaspoon. Rest. Again two teaspoon. This is just sort of, you can say, can call it as in the form of prasādam, or you can say in the form of rainwater so that his dryness should not be there in the mouth. It should always be wet. You understand my point?

Jayapatākā: (aside) He wants some cold water.

Trivikrama: Upendra went.

Abhirāma: Upendra's gone.

Upendra: One hundred and fifty urine. (background conversation) What was that, about?

Dr. Gopal: About half. (indistinct discussion)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was that, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: I am ready to leave.

Bhavānanda: No, Dr. Gopal was saying for taking some foodstuff, little bit—one, two, spoonfuls. He said he's going to cut the medicine down to half.

Prabhupāda: What is this?

Dr. Gopal: This is glucose water. No taste?

Prabhupāda: Little taste.

Dr. Gopal: It is sweet enough?

Hari-śauri: Can you drink a little more

Dr. Gopal: It is sweet enough?

Upendra: This is plain water.

Dr. Gopal: Take little more. Was there enough in . . . that you have measured it. This is 101.

Upendra: Measure it back?

Dr. Gopal: No, don't measure it back. When it finishes, you prepare fresh.

Upendra: It can be kept.

Dr. Gopal: Yes. You have the prescription? Daytime, he is having sleep or not? Little bit.

Devotee (3): Yesterday he rested for some hours, few hours.

Dr. Gopal: And today?

Devotee (3): Today he rested for about three hours.

Bhavānanda: Today from four a.m. to nine a.m. he rested.

Dr. Gopal: He rested.

Bhavānanda: Yes.

Dr. Gopal: So I think the time of his rest or sleep, when he has . . . the same as from usual. Because previously he used to wake from twelve to four in the night, or four or four-thirty. So you want to change your sleep hours?

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Dr. Gopal: No. You want to provoke the sleep? My point is, my request is just to take little improving food intake. You just take little more liquids, number one. Two: whatever you like, you take. I will reduce your medicine by fifty percent. And don't worry for these loose stools. You are passing everything. Right? (break)

Trivikrama: You want to come back, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would you like some kīrtana, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hmm. You have got any . . . (indistinct)

Trivikrama: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Where is Girirāja?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He went into the city today for picking up the fixed deposit receipts and . . . that was the main thing.

Prabhupāda: City?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Delhi. Because the receipts are being turned over to the head office, so they have to be endorsed there. So he went for that purpose. There's not much more to do now with this Panchashil flat, because we're going to give it. So simply it will be up to Vrindavan to make up the necessary document for transferring it. I think it doesn't even require a big document. Simply a letter on behalf of Your Divine Grace saying that, "We give this apartment to you."

Prabhupāda: But one thing, if they can dispose?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hmm. Yes, they may try and sell it.

Prabhupāda: No, no, I don't want that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but when you give them that, that's what they may do.

Prabhupāda: Then don't give him. Let them live there, but . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So then the question again comes up, which I mentioned to you, that if they're paying corporation taxes and other taxes, then they become the legal tenant, and a tenant does not lose the right of tenancy at his death. His children inherit it.

Prabhupāda:. Well, what is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. So then it's not for their lifetime; it's forever.

Prabhupāda: There is no harm. They cannot mortgage or . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Or sublet it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They can simply live. I wanted that because he is formerly working for BBT . . . work or not work, we asked him . . . therefore we have given them a place to stay in right hand, and they can live, left hand, all of them. They cannot have the right to mortgage, sale, like that. That is our aim. They can live happily. This much I want. And if we give them right of proprietorship, the rascal may sell it or get out.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, they will do that. Then they'll have nowhere to live. That's what your older son . . . M.M. will do that.

Prabhupāda: That I cannot allow. They're allowed to live, that's all. Then, after that, whatever . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, what happens if, on their own, they sublet it to someone else? Supposing on their own they make an agreement with someone. Say someone pays them twenty thousand rupees and they move out? That they won't do . . .

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . because they won't be able to get another apartment. Yes. I don't see how they would sublet it. There would be no purpose to it.

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They might, though.

Prabhupāda: No subletting.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How do we stop them from subletting?

Prabhupāda: Then they'll have to . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, once someone is there, you can't stop them. We could take them to court. It's not very likely, that's a fact. In other words, they're not paying rent . . .

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . so how can they sublet? If you're not paying rent, you can't sublet.

Prabhupāda: And there is no much room, that's all, for sub . . . the place is still insufficient for . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I mean supposing they were to move out completely and let someone else move in?

Prabhupāda: Then that must be stopped. Sublet, they cannot.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Supposing, you know, they move out completely and someone pays them a thousand rupees a month? And with that thousand or more they get some other place?

Prabhupāda: Then they'll have to vacate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See, once they pay corporation taxes, they can claim tenancy. And a tenant . . . I can give you an example. In Calcutta, in Albert Road, where we currently have our temple, it was being rented by one member friend. Then he let Jayapatākā stay there, and then we took over. Of course, he was paying rent, but still, they can also be looked upon as a tenant because they'll be paying taxes.

Prabhupāda: Then you pay tax. Cut down from their pension. Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it could be done.

Prabhupāda: We pay, and you cut down. Other tenants are there. But not tenant—occupier. What they are doing?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, they're going to pay corporation taxes. See, we're the actual owners of the flat. There's no other instance like this. The other people who own the flats, they live in it. But we don't live in it; they live in it. So the flat is owned by us, but if they pay taxes and stuff, they're going to get the receipts in their name. I don't think they're going to get the receipts in your name.

Prabhupāda: Why not in my name?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. If they get the receipt in your name, then the matter ends right there.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then it's simple. It's only if they get the receipt in their own name . . .

Prabhupāda: No, in my name.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That should be the point, that the receipt has to be issued in the name of the owner of the flat. Then it's all clear. And that's correct, actually.

Prabhupāda: Make it like that.

Bhavānanda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're talking about Panchashil.

Prabhupāda: So do the needful.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā Mahārāja, if someone owns a flat and someone else is allowed to live there, if the person who's allowed to live there, but doesn't pay rent, when he pays taxes, the receipt for the taxes should be issued in the owner's name, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: If other owners are doing that, do that for us, in my name.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. (aside) I said, if someone owns . . . we own this flat, and somebody lives there and they pay taxes, the receipt for corporation tax should be in the name of the owner of the flat—Prabhupāda. That's the way it would work, because . . . (indistinct) . . . yes, actually, Śrīla Prabhupāda, automatically the receipts will probably come in your name.

Jayapatākā: We pay the land tax. And receipt is given on the owner of the land, but it mentions who gave it as a matter of fact, but it's given in the name of the owner.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So can they claim any right as a tenant based upon the fact that they paid the taxes? All right. Anyway, let us see. I mean, I understand your desire. If they're . . . we'll try and encourage them to fulfill your desire, that they live there and be happy. (indistinct background conversation) See, I think one of the things that should be done is that they should sign. Vrindavan should sign an agreement saying that he agrees not to sublet it to anybody else. Because right now there's no such agreement at all. We're letting them live there, and they can do whatever they want. When he comes here . . . he'll be coming here. So when he comes here, he should sign an agreement that he agrees not to sublet or to let anyone else except the family members live in this apartment.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And if they ever decide they don't want to live there, then they have to return the place to the Society. And the Society agrees to allow them to live there peacefully. (kīrtana) (break)

Hari-śauri: Do you think he is a good doctor?

Prabhupāda: Who is good? (laughs) Everyone is good; I am bad.

Hari-śauri: Actually, you're the best doctor, Śrīla Prabhupāda, because you're the only one who can cure our material diseases all in one. They can make some adjustment, but you can bring complete finish for all material disease.

Prabhupāda: Why they stop kīrtana? (kīrtana starts)

Hari-śauri: Upendra's brought some ice cream. (indistinct discussion aside)

Kīrtanānanda: Very cold, huh? We sprinkled a little cardamom on it. Nice?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Kīrtanānanda: Jaya. I have water. Can you drink? (Prabhupāda swallows) More water? Little more.

Hari-śauri: I was in Delhi yesterday, and I spoke to one of the temple presidents in Australia, and he gave me a very encouraging report. He said that all the Indian Gītās that we got just recently from Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, now they've almost completely finished. Over eleven thousand they've distributed in just a few weeks.

Prabhupāda: Hmm!

Hari-śauri: That's very good. Since you've been here in Vṛndāvana, I sent them a telegram that now they have to distribute more books so that Lord Kṛṣṇa will be pleased and allow you to stay with us. So they've doubled up since then. Now they're almost run out, they've distributed so many. (break) He said that up on the farm also things are going very nicely. Many, many people are coming now to see how we are living. And for Govardhana-pūjā they are planning a two-day festival. They're expecting to get many hundreds of people coming. Your farm is already very well known now up in that area, and people are becoming very interested to see what we have to offer. In the immediate district where our farm is, many people have tried to start communes—these hippies and people like this. But they've never been successful because they've never had any central point to agree on. Everybody's simply gone their . . . lived their own way. But within a few months now, some of the more serious people have seen that within just three or four months we have achieved more on our farm than any of these communes have done in the last six years. So they're becoming very attracted to come and stay with us, and they appreciate the kīrtana and prasādam very much. (end)