771022 - Conversation B - Vrndavana

Conversations by Date, 1977

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

771022SB-VRNDAVAN - October 22, 1977 - 31:00 Minutes

(Srimad-Bhagavatam dictation)

Devotee: Third chapter. Right?

Prabhupāda: Own original features. The same dress, the same tendencies, the same color. Every individual has got differences. So with all the differences He manifested, not only Original Person or character, nature, dress, likes.

Jayādvaita: Kṛṣṇa expanded Himself in this way.

Prabhupāda: Twin brothers, although they are same, still there are differences.

Pradyumna: Twin brothers.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayādvaita: This is our practical experience. This is Kṛṣṇa's opulence.

Pradyumna: Ananta-rūpam.

Prabhupāda: Superior, inferior. How the Māyāvādīs can say they are all the same?

Jayādvaita: Actually they are sup . . . (break)

Pradyumna: This is a big, long verse. Mystified, he could not understand what is this, and he could not even see anything and then, er, so Kṛṣṇa saw this and then He removed that yoga-māyā covering. In the beginning . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: Or certainly.

Jayādvaita: Power of ascertaining.

Prabhupāda: Also Brahmā . . . (break) Yes, and Kṛṣṇa. Sarasvatī, husband, Kṛṣṇa. She is not?

Pradyumna: Er. Wishes to say husband of Sarasvatī, Brahmā.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pradyumna: So Brahmā, and then Brahmā even being Lord of Sarasvatī, so it says mahā buddhi mati api na muhyati, "He became bewildered about Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Pradyumna: Irā-īśe brahmani irā sarasvatī tasya īśe mahā buddhimati api iti athaḥ tad atya kṛṣṇayi muyati, "he became mystified, even master of Sarasvatī."

Prabhupāda: Although tried, could not understand. Hmm.

Pradyumna: Yoga-māyā . . . yoga-māyā, yoga-māyā, māyā, yoga-māyā. It says here, "On the sandy bank of the Yamunā which covered all the boys who were eating and all the calves who were eating grass along with Myself, who was searching for the calves and who displayed all the cows, all the calves and the boys as My svarūpa, and then again who again displayed all those calves and cows, er, cows and boys with four arms. That yoga-māyā, He disappeared . . . He caused to disappear." Yayā pulinaiḥ . . . (break) He says someone may think that this māyā which He took away was mahā-māyā, but he says no. He says: yā vāstabam vastu arvrinoti . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: Manifest, sometimes not manifest, ah, but this is yoga-māyā. Hmm.

Jayādvaita: This yoga-māyā, is this Kṛṣṇa's total spiritual energy or is this one division, one subdivision of Kṛṣṇa's spiritual energy?

Prabhupāda: Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate. Māyā is one, Kṛṣṇa's māyā-śakti. Svarūpa-śakti, māyā-śakti. But that māyā-śakti is manifested in varieties. That is the difference between Vaiṣṇavas and Māyāvādīs. They say that māyā is one; we say that varieties. Unity in varieties. There may be one tree, but there are varieties of leaves and fruits and flowers. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva. Such varieties are required for performing varieties of activities within the creation. Just like a machine. A machine, everything is iron, but there are varieties of activities. One part of machine is working in different way, another part is working, "cut-cut-cut-cut-cut-cut," and everything is iron. So, one who does not know how the machine is working, they say "all iron." In spite of being iron, the varieties are there. With oil and lubrication and arrangement of the machine, they are working differently.

parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate

svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca

(Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 6.8)

And this is working in such a way as if naturally it is so made. One who at least running like this along with this another rod is moving so, and the work is going on. The purpose for the machine: when this is going on. This is explained in the Vedas, parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate. And we give different names: this is wheel, this is screw, this is lubrication, this is spindle. So many names to work naturally. So Kṛṣṇa's power is so variegated that same śakti, potency, to work in different ways. Is that clear?

Jayādvaita: I have a further question. Is it correct to understand that this yoga-māyā is one of the varieties of Kṛṣṇa's potencies.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Another counterpart of the same potency. One is yoga-māyā, one is mahā-māyā, and each of the potencies, they are working in their own varieties. This is called parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate. Vividhaiva. Vividha means varieties. Ha? Vividha.

Pradyumna: Various, multifarious.

Prabhupāda: So unity in varieties. This is not clear?

Jayādvaita: No, this is clear. Another question that came up in Bhāgavatam class some days ago, that Kṛṣṇa has three divisions. He has His potency for existence, His potency for knowledge, His potency for pleasure.

Prabhupāda: Saṁvit, sandhinī and . . .?

Pradyumna: Hlādinī.

Prabhupāda: Hlādinī.

Jayādvaita: Is yoga-māyā identified with one of these potencies? Or is this a different division entirely?

Prabhupāda: No. All of the potencies: saṁvit, sandhinī and hlādinī. The hlādinī potency is Rādhārāṇī. As Jīva Gosvāmī has explained: rādhā kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī-śaktir asmāt (CC Adi 1.5). The hlādinī-śakti manifested as Rādhārāṇī, but Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī, the same. One is potent and the other is potency.

Pradyumna: It is mentioned here that Brahmā was mystified, so the question is asked, kva muhyati: "Where was he mystified?" Nija: where was; kva muhyati: where was his . . . in what was he mystified? Nija mahimani darśita catur-bhujādi rūpa sva maheśvara ye: in Kṛṣṇa's great opulence; maheśvarya, of showing all these catur-bhujādi rūpa sva maheśvara ye, Kṛṣṇa's potency of showing all these forms.

Prabhupāda: Mahā-śakta, maheśakta.

Pradyumna: And it says: "What kind of īśvara was that?" Kīdṛśaḥ atha kye.

Prabhupāda: You cannot argue with your limited senses. Acintyā. Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī has said, "Unless we accept acintya in the Supreme, I mean to say, conception of God, there cannot be accommodation, acintya." This has to be added, acintya, ārtā ka. Therefore we say that the words of śāstra should be taken as it is, no change. It is beyond our argument. That is also explained, acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet: "Things which are in the acintya group you cannot ascertain by argument." Generally they argue; and our process is no argument, take as it is. Kṛṣṇa says, "This is superior; this is inferior," we accept it. Why superior, why inferior? No such thing. Then it is lost.

acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā

na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet

parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate

svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca

(Mahābhārata, Bhīṣma-parva 5.22)

Cintya. Our arguments, our thoughts, are cintya, or we can contemplate. Acintya means we cannot contemplate it; we have to accept. In other words it is called avaroha-panthā. Avaroha, and therefore avatāra—that which descends. And material way is āroha-panthā: by argument, by reason, they want to understand. But these things are not like that. Āroha-panthā, no. Avaroha-panthā. Therefore we accept paramparā, and the best paramparā is Kṛṣṇa. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). What Kṛṣṇa says, we accept. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ—this is called avaroha-panthā. Avaroha avatāra ādikam. Hmm. (break)

Pradyumna: . . . by the maheśvarya of Kṛṣṇa then . . .

Prabhupāda: Because he adopted āroha-panthā. He wanted to understand Kṛṣṇa's mystic power by his own limited, conceivable power; therefore he was mistaken. He became mystified instead.

Pradyumna: And then he said that this maheśvarya was atarkya, and he said: "Why is it artarkya?" Yataḥ sva pramiti kham. Sva pramiti sva prakāśaṁ ca tat kham śuka rūpam ca.

Prabhupāda: Everyone wants to take pleasure by his own knowledge that, "I know something," but in the presence of Kṛṣṇa this conception will not help. We have to submit. You have to. There is no other alternative: na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa-ites and the Māyāvādīs. It is clear?

Pradyumna: It says therefore, it says, because this kṛṣṇa sva prakāśa sva pramiti kham ata eva . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: You cannot live within these limitations of prakṛti.

Pradyumna: Then this last word, it says bhaṭān . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: (indistinct Sanskrit) (break) . . . a fact. So (indistinct Sanskrit asann niyatam??), not fact.

Pradyumna: In fact one commentator says some people try to find Brahman by neti-neti.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That . . . (indistinct) . . . "This is not, this is not." If this is not, this is not will go on. But what it is? This is called definition by negation. What it is? Suppose a statue. This is not what? This is not this, this is not this . . . so what it is?

Pradyumna: It mentions here . . .

Prabhupāda: In logic it is called "definition by negation."

Pradyumna: He mentions astulam an aṇu bahlasvam ity adi.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa has already explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, na jāyate na mriyate vā: "It is not born; not dead." You cannot submissively accept that. But what it is? It is eternal: nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ. Na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). So in the beginning it is difficult to understand because . . . (indistinct) . . . nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ, it is not burned by the fire. Now imagine what is that, it is not burned by fire. Nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ. What is that verse?

Jayādvaita: Nainaṁ chindanti śastrāṇi . . . (BG 2.23).

Prabhupāda: Ah. This is negative definition, negative quality.

Pradyumna: Next verse: verse 58. Ananta brahma vākya dṛṣṭīr lābh koriyā mṛt . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: It is called supta tīta 'nyān Actually, we do not die. We are kept inert for some time. Just like at night we sleep and all activities are stopped, but as soon as we rise up, we immediately remember, "Oh, where I am; what I have to do." It is called supta tīta 'nyān.

Pradyumna: Sup . . .

Prabhupāda: Supta tīta 'nyān A man is sleeping; he is inert, as if he already had died. Died means I become inert for some time, then again I begin my activities. So this is going on life after life according to our sva-bhāva. Now, in the human life, if we prepare ourselves, then we regain our activities in our spiritual life, and that is our real life. That is perfection. Otherwise, according to karma sva-bhāva we are busy in varieties of life and varieties of activities. That will not stop our birth and death. That is explained by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, māyāra vaśe, yāccha bhese', khāccha hābuḍubu bhāi. Come to the spiritual platform, then activities will be permanent, kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. This stage is attained after accumulating the results of action of pious activities of many, many lives: na janma-koṭi-sukṛtair labhyate. Very serious thing, janma-koṭi. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement wants to stop this koṭi janma in one birth, rectify everything and come to the permanent life. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Hmm. It is clear? (end)