771105 - Conversation A - Vrndavana

Conversations by Date, 1977

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

771105R1-VRNDAVAN - November 05, 1977 - 31:40 Minutes

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One thing I feel, that while there hasn't been any great improvement, on the other hand, I do not find that there has been any negative reaction or any regression since the time the kavirāja's treatment began. Of course, Your Divine Grace says that you feel weaker now than you did a week ago. If that's a fact, then . . .

Prabhupāda: Not so very weak.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I do find that you have more difficulty sitting up now. I notice that when you sit up you always slump over to one side . . .

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . either as if you have no sufficient strength or as if you lost your balance. I can't tell which it is. You're always leaning. You're not able to sit up straight. Of course, that was there also even a week ago, but it seems a little more noticeable now. Do you think you are weaker now than you were a week ago?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You do? That's not good . . .

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's not a good sign. I mean I wouldn't expect that you should be that much stronger, but I don't see why you should be weaker now. Do you think it may be psychologically that you're weaker? I mean, how would you know if you were weaker now?

Prabhupāda: Because I cannot sit down.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You can't sit up. You mean after being sat up you can't stay sitting up?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You were never able to sit yourself up. That you were not doing since many months ago. When you say you're not able to sit down, you mean you cannot keep sitting in a sitting position? 'Cause that you were able to do. I've seen you in the last day or two, sitting up. I think it might be, I don't know, but it may be more psychological, from laying in bed all the time. Naturally there is a feeling perhaps that one is . . . weakness also means one's willpower becomes more weaker. Is that possible that that may be it?

Prabhupāda: What it is, Kṛṣṇa knows.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyway, the signs which the kavirāja told us to look for, which would show that things are going well, are definitely present. The fact is that you have been passing more urine every day, nearly double the amount that you previously were passing. And also you're taking more . . . you're not exerting yourself as much.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You're not exerting yourself as much. Up until about a week ago you were speaking a lot, translating or otherwise, and this parikramā you were doing was also exerting. So in that respect you're not exerting yourself as much. In other words, all of these things which the kavirāja has asked us to do, we're doing and you're doing. So we should now wait and see. In the meantime, we're here chanting. If you like, we can read. And we're perfectly satisfied to be with you. So I don't see that there's any difficulty in waiting to see the results of the treatment, see if it has actually helped.

Bhakti-caru: Śrīla Prabhupāda, ekhon ektu oshudh debo? (Śrīla Prabhupāda, should I give you the medicine now?)

Prabhupāda: Khali oshudh i to khacchi. (I'm only taking medicine.)

Bhakti-caru: Prabhupāda is saying that he is just taking medicines. I asked him if he would like to take some medicine. (pause) Śrīla Prabhupāda, diner moddhe shudhu char baar oshudh dicchi . . . panch baar. (Śrīla Prabhupāda, I'm giving you medicine only four times a day . . . five times.)

Prabhupāda: Ha, to khabar ta ki holo? (Yes, but what about food?)

Bhakti-caru: Ami oshudh ta diye tarpore ektu angurer rosh debo. (After giving you the medicine, I will bring some grape juice.)

Prabhupāda: Debe, to khabo ektu. Khai ektu ektu kore. (Give it to me then, I will eat it. Little by little I will eat it.)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda's supposed to take medicine now? He doesn't want to take? You don't want to take your medicine now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: My taking the medicine . . . I am passing urine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mmm, huh. Is that all right?

Prabhupāda: That I do not know.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, according to every physician that we've consulted, Āyurvedic and allopathic, they say that that's very much required. Is it painful to pass urine?

Prabhupāda: Sometimes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think you should take the medicine as he prescribed. They're not dangerous medicines in any way. Otherwise we won't be able to see the effect of the kavirāja's cure.

(pause)

Prabhupāda: Pash phirle, e pash theke o pash . . . matha ghore. (When I turn from this side to that side, I feel dizzy.)

Bhakti-caru: Matha ghore? Durbalata theke hoyto Śrīla Prabhupāda. Boshle pore . . . uthe boshle? (Feel dizzy? Maybe it is because of weakness Śrīla Prabhupāda. What happens when you sit up?)

Prabhupāda: Prothom ta . . . (indistinct) . . . ekbar ghore. (In the beginning . . . (indistinct) . . . feel dizzy.)

Bhakti-caru: Śrīla Prabhupāda says that when he turns on his side he feels dizzy, and when he sits up also, towards the beginning, he feels very dizzy. I think that's due to weakness.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, according to this kavirāja, he said that after fifteen days of this treatment, there should be noticeable sign, increased strength. Didn't he say that? So, it's been about one week now, hasn't it? Or maybe not so long. Five days. So for another week or ten days, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we should carry on, and let us see. We're certainly not going to . . . I think that this is the last kavirāja that we should take the help of. If his medicine works, that's very welcome. And if it doesn't, then I don't think we can try any more kavirājas or any doctors. We've tried enough. But at least for the next week to ten days now we should carry through. At least we've seen that with other kavirājas there were so many negative effects. Remember? Now, with this kavirāja, nothing has ever happened badly with the medicine he's prescribed. Rather, exactly as he predicted, there would be more urine, more urine is coming. I think the swelling is reducing.

Bhakti-caru: Yes. It has. It's a lot . . . another thing is that milk . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Milk, you were never able to take. Now you're able to take without producing . . . I mean there definitely are, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Last night you gave me milk?

Bhakti-caru: Um-hm. You started coughing, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was that?

Bhakti-caru: Last night.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What time?

Bhakti-caru: About 8:30.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda was vomiting?

Bhakti-caru: Not really. Like . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I explained to Bhakti-caru Mahārāja that when you take something to drink, milk, that when you sit up, at first you should not eat immediately. First of all, you should sit up . . . (break) I don't think it was due to the milk and barley that you were coughing.

Bhakti-caru: There are few things. First of all that, as you say, sitting up and taking it immediately after sitting up, and when he was feeling dizzy, then drinking the milk.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's what it is.

Bhakti-caru: And another thing is that no taste. And Śrīla Prabhupāda wasn't sitting properly. He was very uncomfortable, the way he was sitting.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what I'm trying to say. Before you try to drink anything, Śrīla Prabhupāda, first of all you make yourself properly comfortable in sitting. If you're dizzy and you try and drink . . . anyone who is dizzy and tries to drink, they're going to start to cough and vomit. Anyway, we were explaining . . .

Bhakti-caru: Another thing might have been that last night in the milk the barley was little thick, little too much of it, so that density was little thick. So from today onwards I'm going to use much less barley, so that it's thin and easy to swallow. (indistinct comments by Jayādvaita)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think that . . . I mean, the one thing we're hoping for is the strength. I was looking at that swelling, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Very much reduced. Very reduced.

Bhakti-caru: And another thing, Shastrijī was explaining that in Āyurvedic medicine the reaction doesn't take place immediately. He was explaining in allopath, when someone is very weak, they give him glucose, intravenous glucose, and that gives immediate energy. But he says that that doesn't work. When the glucose is exhausted, then again he becomes even more weak. But with the kavirāja's method, the strength will come slowly, slowly, but whatever strength is acquired in the body, that stays there. It's permanent. It's not just temporary.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The swelling is reduced. Isn't it, Śrīla Prabhupāda? I mean, all of the signs, Śrīla Prabhupāda, which the kavirāja wanted, are there.

Bhakti-caru: As a matter of fact, he hasn't given any medicine to strengthen him up.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Did you hear what Bhakti-caru just said?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Bhakti-caru: Right now, Śrīla Prabhupāda, Shastrijī didn't give you any medicine to strengthen you up as such. His medicines are simply to cure your kidney and liver. When they are cured, then he's going to give medicines like makara-dhvaja which will make you strong.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One thing, Śrīla Prabhupāda, this is one of the reasons I wanted the kavirāja to be with you was to be able to answer your doubts, because I felt that he could far better than we can. But factually speaking, it seems to me there's every . . . I mean if he were here now he would feel your pulse, and he would be able to understand that your pulse is not weak. Your heart is good, you're starting to pass more urine, you're getting sufficient rest, you're able to take things like milk, which you couldn't take before, and these are positive signs. And the one thing that which we're looking for, strength, he already said will not come immediately, and he's not even giving any medicine for increasing strength yet. The thing is, we're a little impatient because we've waited so many months and had so many failures with so many different doctors, but really, this doctor, so far, has the best record, his medicines. So we think that you should be encouraged. (pause) We feel hopeful. Even if you feel hopeless, we are hopeful.

(long pause)

Prabhupāda: (indistinct Bengali) . . . koto ta hoye? (. . . how much is it?)

Bhakti-caru: Chollish gram Śrīla Prabhupāda. Khub beshi hoyni, olpo ektu hoyeche. (40 grams, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's not much, very little.)

Bhakti-caru: That's 40 grams, stool.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? I think you should take the medicine now. Can Bhakti-caru bring it to you?

Prabhupāda: The same medicine?

Bhakti-caru: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. This same medicine will continue till kavirājī comes back and gives new medicine. They all are the same medicine, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There are two different types of medicines. One, I'm supposed to give once in the morning, once in the evening. And another one is in the noontime and late in the evening. And there's one medicine, that's sometime in the afternoon. One o'clock, twelve or one o'clock.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not very painful to take the medicine, is it?

Bhakti-caru: Does it taste bad, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the medicine? Does it taste very bad?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhakti-caru: But then it is very bitter or . . . because medicine will be a little bad-tasting. Very much bitter, no, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Bitter.

Bhakti-caru: Yes. So should I mix it with some sweet, no not honey? Like . . . I normally give the powder with glucose, so that the glucose will give you some sweet taste with it. But distilled medicine, the water thin, watery medicine, that is tasteless. It tastes like water.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Let us follow this medicine until its prescribed time, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Give me. (swallows medicine)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This kavirāja feels quite confident, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I mean he is not a fool. He says there's reason to feel quite hopeful. Naturally you are feeling a little hopeless because you've been laying down for so long in bed. Would you like to hear a little bit of one of the books? We'll read some more of the Teachings of Lord Kapila that we were reading yesterday to you? In this way we can pass the time very nicely.

Prabhupāda: Who is . . .?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're moving the light over to this side for reading.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This book is wonderful, Prabhupāda, Kapila, Teachings of Lord Kapila. It is a beautiful cover.

Jayādvaita: (reads from Teachings of Lord Kapila) "Kapiladeva is referred to as Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Bhagavān makes no mistakes. Nārāyaṇaḥ paro 'vyaktāt: even Śaṅkarācārya says that "Bhagavān, Nārāyaṇa, does not belong to this material world." When we speak of Bhagavān, or when the śāstras refer to Bhagavān, we refer to Him who is above material understanding. As stated here, śrī-bhagavān uvāca. It does not say vyāsadeva uvāca or kapiladeva uvāca. Similarly, in Bhagavad-gītā, Vyāsadeva says, śrī-bhagavān uvāca. Bhagavān refers to Him who is above the defects of this material world. Bhagavān is not subject to the four deficiencies of the living entities." (TLK Verse 13, purport)

Bhakti-caru: Ektu jal debo? (Shall I give some water?)

Prabhupāda: Hmm, hmm, hmm.

Bhakti-caru: Ar ektu jal debo, Śrīla Prabhupāda? (Should I give you some more water, Śrīla Prabhupāda?)

Prabhupāda: Hmm . . . (indistinct) (end)