720717 - Conversation - London

Conversations by Date, 1972

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

720717R1-LONDON - July 17, 1972 - 18:31 Minutes

Prabhupāda: . . . ruler was a Hindu, the population were the Muhammadans. In Hyderabad the ruler was a Muhammadan and the population was Hindu. Now these Pakistanis, they say, "Now that is Muhammadan ruler. We shall occupy that." And Kashmir, Hindu ruler, the Hindustanis they said, "We shall occupy that." Just see how they created fighting. (laughs) Just see. So the Kashmir ruler, the Dr. Karan Singh's father, he, according to the British direction . . . British direction was that he can join any party: it is actually, but we don't interfere.

He immediately surrendered to the Hindustanis, and the Pakistanis attacked Kashmir: "It is a Muhammadan country. We shall take it." So the ruler, he surrendered. So it was perfectly in order, because the British have gave . . . (indistinct) . . . selection. So when there was fight was going on, the Mountbatten, (laughs) Lord Mountbatten—he is still living—somehow or other he induced Jawaharlal to put the matter in the United Nations. So still it is not settled up, you see, but his duty was, "So why shall I go to the United Nations? The arrangement was that the ruler can select. He has selected already. Why should I go to them?"

In so many way the things are implicated. I am talking on the platform of politician. So all these, I mean to say, Indian politicians, they were defeated by British politicians. (laughter) That's a fact. And actually British politicians, they are very trained up.

Guest: Prabhupāda, please excuse me.

Prabhupāda: Alright.

Guest: I . . . I’ll see you tomorrow or the day after tomorrow.

Prabhupāda: So don't manufacture duty.

Guest: No.

Prabhupāda: Duty is already there. Take it up and be happy.

Guest: Okay.

Prabhupāda: That's all. (laughs)

Devotee: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: We are doing that. How we say: "Here is duty"? We may be very . . . not very much learned, but we take the simple thing, that's all. Our duty is to carry out the order of Kṛṣṇa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu confirmed it, my Guru Mahārāja confirmed it . . . (indistinct) . . . why should we be unnecessarily very learned man? Eh? There is a Bengali proverb, uthi chala kel balai derhi: "If one is too much intelligent, he should be hanged." (laughter) (laughs) Over-intelligent.

Kṛṣṇa may give me the good intelligence that whatever I have been able to do or what I am going to, let me be fixed up in my faith in Kṛṣṇa, that's all. I don't want anything. Why shall I create my duty? Duty is already there. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that in the world there is no problem, no scarcity. The only problem is that the people are not Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the problem.

But actually that is the fact. So our policy is that let people become Kṛṣṇa conscious—all problems solved. That is our culture. Caitanya caritāmṛta says, ye jana kṛṣṇa . . . (indistinct) . . . anyone who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is first-class intelligent. Kṛṣṇa ye bhaje sei baḍa catura (CC Antya 4.67). Where is this word in the Caitanya caritāmṛta? Anyone who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is very intelligent.

Devotee: (indistinct) . . . the Caitanya caritāmṛta.

Prabhupāda: Eh? It may not be. Kṛṣṇa ye bhaje sei baḍa catura. So we are taking this slogan. We are requesting that you become Kṛṣṇa conscious—you shall be the most intelligent person. Where is my difficulty?

Śyāmasundara: Where is what?

Prabhupāda: Where is my difficulty?

Śyāmasundara: Difficulty.

Prabhupāda: I have no difficulty.

Śyāmasundara: (laughs)

Prabhupāda: I am preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I have no difficulty. I have got so many direction from my predecessors.

Śyāmasundara: Yeah, you defeated every Western philosophers, without any trouble at all.

Prabhupāda: So actually if you follow, mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186), authorized persons, there is no difficulty. There is no difficulty. The difficulty is that we are misled by unauthorized persons. That is the difficulty.

Guest (2): Your Grace, when I leave here tonight, may I consider myself a disciple of yours?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You are good boy. I shall accept you. Take this prasādam.

Guest (2): Jaya. Thank you.

Śyāmasundara: So before going, you can have a ceremony?

Prabhupāda: Mmm, he is a nice boy.

Śyāmasundara: You will be going either Wednesday or Thursday—I am not sure yet. I am waiting for the tickets from Paris. We will come back.

Prabhupāda: We will come back after a week or so. You also consider. I have explained my philosophy . . . (indistinct) . . . you are intelligent boy.

Guest (2): I shall be at the Commonwealth Centre tomorrow night, of course. And may I leave . . . will you contact me?

Śyāmasundara: Sure. Dhanañjaya is the president of the temple, local president, so he will be constantly in touch with you.

Prabhupāda: Our method is simple, our philosophy is simple. But if somebody brings intricate philosophy, we could answer.

Śyāmasundara: (laughs) Prabhupāda has just finished a book . . .

Prabhupāda: (laughs) We are not so simple that others will befool us. We are not so simple.

Śyāmasundara: From Socrates up to Heidegger, Heisenberg, up to the latest philosophers, he has defeated them systematically, one by one. Ten months he worked on it. Incredible. (laughs) Every argument, possible argument. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: No. We failed big, big doctors, scientists. There was one Dr. Staal.

Śyāmasundara: Yeah, he was a Sanskrit scholar or something.

Prabhupāda: Sanskrit scholar.

Dhanañjaya: Members of the Mensa Society?

Śyāmasundara: Because they have no authority, no previous authority . . .

Prabhupāda: No standard authority.

Śyāmasundara: Mental speculators.

Prabhupāda: Another philosopher is coming on the nineteenth.

Śyāmasundara: Yes, that would be very interesting . . . (laughs) I forget his name. He is the leader of the spiritualist church in England. I don’t know his name . . . (indistinct)

Guest (2): What is he coming here for? To . . .

Śyāmasundara: Just to engage in a kind of a debate actually, just an exchange of views, dialogue. (laughs) Last session we had was with a geneticist in San . . . Los Angeles. In the world of genetics he is trying to find out how to create life out of chemicals. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Let us capture Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, that's all. (laughs) He will give us protection. That's right. Kṛṣṇa knows how to kill demons. Eh?

Śyāmasundara: (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Eh? The horse demon, He controlled him by pushing His hand on the mouth, you see.

Śyāmasundara: (laughs) A horse can be controlled by his mouth very easily.

Prabhupāda: Only mouth, that's all. Very easily. He simply pushed His hand, and when He pushed His hand, by His power he, the horse, began to feel the hand as hot iron. You see? Kṛṣṇa is all-powerful. He can do that. Eh? Otherwise there is no meaning of His being all-powerful. We accept Kṛṣṇa as God, not . . .

Even by His activities He is not ordinary. He had to meet so many dangers before He was accepted God. From childhood, when He was baby, just three months old, He had to struggle. He had to struggle with His position as God. And those who are claiming, "I am God," let these rascals establish his position that he is God. Then we accept that. You find out that picture of Kṛṣṇa, how He is controlling the horse, eh? Keśī.

Śyāmasundara: It's here at the back. It's right at the back.

(indistinct conversation)

Prabhupāda: It is in the first part.

Dhanañjaya: Kṛṣṇa is so merciful that He puts Himself into so many difficult situations.

Prabhupāda: And His friends are saying: "How Kṛṣṇa is doing?" (laughs)

Śyāmasundara: Yeah. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Small friends. And they will come home and they will say to the . . . "Oh, mother, Kṛṣṇa did like this." "Oh, yes. Kṛṣṇa is so wonderful. Oh!" That is all.

Śyāmasundara: (laughs)

Prabhupāda: "May be some demigod, Kṛṣṇa." They did not know that Kṛṣṇa is God. They loved simply Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Neither they care whether Kṛṣṇa is God or demigod or . . . "He is our beloved," that's all.

So simply if we develop our love for Kṛṣṇa, then everything will come to . . . (indistinct) . . . simply we have to learn how to love Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection of devotion. Otherwise it is not possible to understand Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa does not know Himself what He is.

Guest (2): And we learn to love Kṛṣṇa by . . .

Prabhupāda: That is perfection.

Guest (2): . . . chanting the mantra . . .

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest (2): . . . the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (2): . . . and following the regulative principles.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all. Simple thing. And there is dormant love for Kṛṣṇa. Simply we have to clear, that's all. Nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti. Kṛṣṇa's love is there, eternally. Otherwise how these European and American boys loving Kṛṣṇa?

Śyāmasundara: Would you like to take rest now?

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Yes.

Guest (2): Thank you. (obeisances) (break) (end)