730711 - Conversation D - London

Conversations by Date, 1973

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

730711R4-LONDON - July 11, 1973 - 12:31 Minutes

• The page that was previously named: '730711 - Conversation D - London' has been moved to: 730715 - Conversation - London

Prabhupāda: When the destiny of the people are to be controlled, there must be very, very intelligent man. That is Vedic civilization. There is standard aims and objects on which the people should be trained up. That is varṇāśrama-dharma. Viṣṇur ārādhana, worshiping Viṣṇu. This is the ultimate aim.

So the whole society is divided into brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa—departmental—and they are trained up. But the aim is viṣṇur ārādhana. But they have no idea at the present moment. Viṣṇur ārādhana, he has no knowledge. But the civilization begins on this point. Human being means he's meant for viṣṇur ārādhana. Otherwise, what is the difference between dogs and human being? The Western people, they do not know. They simply think that dog lies down on the floor, on the road . . . "We have got nice, best apartment. Therefore you are civilized."

So that is their defect. They are trying to improve the condition of sleeping, eating. That's all. That is advancement of civilization. But that is not advancement of civilization. Advancement of civilization means to understand Viṣṇu, how to please Him, how to go back to Him, go to the spiritual world. This is advancement of civilization. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). They do not know all these things. Therefore they have been described as śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). All these men are exactly like dogs, hogs, camel and asses. So by their vote, by the votes of dogs, hogs, camel and asses, another big ass, big dog will be on the government. So what, how does he know, how to govern? Do you think if you make a dog king, it will be good government. Or a camel king, it will be good government?

So it is happening so. The dogs, hogs, camels and asses, they are voting. Another big camel, another big dog is on the governmental head. How can you expect good government? After all, he's a dog, hog and camel. How can you expect good government from him? Instead of a petty dog, if you enthrone a very big dog . . . what is the big dog? Does it mean the condition will improve? That is the position now. Just like what is this Nixon? He's a big dog. That's all. And therefore now people are accusing him. What is the condition now?

Satsvarūpa: It's just dragging, dragging on. Now he's become sick. He's ill. He's in the hospital.

Prabhupāda: He must be. So many attacks. How he can tolerate? He's in the post. This is happening.

Kṛṣṇa-bhāminī: This idea of democracy came at a time in French history called the Period of Enlightenment, and it was introduced by . . .

Prabhupāda: Hmm? Democracy?

Haṁsadūta: Democracy was first introduced in an age which they call the Age of Enlightenment in French history.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Kṛṣṇa-bhāminī: The idea was that everyone should be pleased, that everyone should take . . .

Prabhupāda: No, where is the . . . in France, everyone is pleased? (chuckles) That is the imagination. You see? Vox populi, people's government. People, generally, general people, they are fools and rascals. How a government of fools and rascals can improve? It's not possible. They're ignorant. Abodha-jāta. They have no knowledge.

The knowledge of eating, sleeping, mating, defending, that is animal knowledge. Everyone knows it. How to eat, nobody requires any education. How to sleep, nobody requires any education. How to have sex life, nobody requires any education. How to defend, nobody requires education. They are not subject matter of education. Everyone knows it, how to do it. The modern education means they are on this subject matter. Just like that rascal, Freud?

Haṁsadūta: Freud.

Prabhupāda: He has written a big philosophy on sex life. Does it require any education? Anyone knows how to use sex life. And he has written big book. Similarly, defense also: they are making big, big arrangements, atomic bomb. "I am making atomic bomb. You are making . . ." Similarly, sleeping: big, big skyscraper building; eating: start thousands of slaughterhouse. Formerly also there were meat-eaters, but did they maintain slaughterhouse? "All right, I want to eat meat," just go in the forest. Kill one animal. That's all. Pick it up.

So this advancement of civilization means advancement of slaughterhouse, advancement of skyscraper building, advancement of atom bomb, advancement of Freud philosophy. This is advancement. The subject matter is the same, which does not require any education. Nobody requires education on this subject matter.

Even the birds and beasts, they know what is their eatable, and they eat and they live. Now the advancement . . . agricultural institute, a big college, how to improve agriculture. Crude people, they are producing also. Without agricultural college, they are producing sufficiently grain and eating. Still they do so. Do they depend on agricultural education?

Real education is how to solve the problems of life—birth, death, old age—and how to go back to home, back to . . . that is education. This is not education. This is simply waste of time. Because you cannot change your destiny. Now, take for example, there are so many agricultural improvement. Does it mean that there is no person who is needy? There are so many needy person. But has the agricultural education improved their lot? No. Starving people are still there.

Rather, those who can produce, they're producing and throwing into the sea. They'll not part with it for the poor men who are starving. Then where is the advancement of education? You produce more by advanced agricultural process and then throw it into the ocean. Real purpose was to produce more to see that nobody's hungry. That is not being done. There is no sympathy. This is not civilization. This is a hodgepodge. Simply wasting labor. That's all.

Now here, the Parliament, now what is the use of Parliament? They have lost their empire. What is the use of Parliament? Formerly they had to rule all over the world. So representative, Parliament . . . now they have got . . . what they have got? But still they have got the Parliament, the bodyguard, the king, queen. Show only. Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this so-called advancement of civilization has no meaning. Simply waste of time.

tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido

na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ

tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukhaṁ

kālena sarvatra gabhīra-raṁhasā

(SB 1.5.18)

Everything is explained in Śrīmad Bhāgavatam.

(pause)

We can stop. (end)