760820 - Conversation - Hyderabad

Conversations by Date, 1976

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

760820R1-HYDERABAD - August 20, 1976 - 43:59 Minutes

Prabhupāda: . . . disorder. (break)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . everything to Bombay.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It is very convenient.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That, that is better.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I moved everything to Bombay.

Prabhupāda: The main distribution should be from Bombay.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Now because this Usha Printers is much bigger also, and we're getting better quality.

Prabhupāda: Saurabha, what news, Bombay?

Saurabha: The festival was a very great success. We counted approximately, for the last two days, twenty thousand people must have come.

Prabhupāda: Somebody said five hundred.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Somebody came and said that six hundred people Janmāṣṭamī night.

Saurabha: It was packed. They were . . .

Prabhupāda: I was surprised.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I was surprised myself that six hundred people on Janmāṣṭamī night.

Saurabha: They were everywhere.

Prabhupāda: Who is that nonsense who came and said this? Who is that rascal?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's a poor thirteen-year-old boy.

Prabhupāda: Oh. You believed the boy?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, but he's . . .

Prabhupāda: He's authority. Here you take the information. Why did you believe the boy?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, he wasn't here. He just told me last night. I asked him.

Prabhupāda: Then how did you believe that boy? Five hundred.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I was very surprised myself.

Prabhupāda: I know that so many people come, even in ordinary years.

Saurabha: They were sitting everywhere, even on the balconies and in the scaffolding. They were everywhere. It was very crowded.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The press and the television people came? Every year the television comes. They televised this?

Saurabha: The Film News.

Prabhupāda: I was surprised when I heard five hundred—they boycotted or what?

Saurabha: For the abhiṣeka ceremony, that lasted about an hour, up till one o'clock, and everyone remained. There were thousands of people. They were just everywhere around.

Prabhupāda: I will give you one śālagrāma-śilā. So as it is being worshiped in Māyāpur, it should be worshiped in Bombay also.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You want to start it now, or in the new temple?

Prabhupāda: No, now. Śālagrāma-śilā. It is not difficult. You have seen śālagrāma-śilā?

Saurabha: I have seen.

Prabhupāda: So you'll take it and . . .

Saurabha: I'm going back tomorrow night.

Prabhupāda: So you can take it. So what other news?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: What other news, Prabhupāda?

Saurabha: Well, now the festival is over, all the holidays are gone, so there's a big crew of people working now. It goes very fast.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Saurabha: And we're putting in the walls of your room. We have started . . .

Prabhupāda: What is the length and breadth of my room?

Saurabha: Well, it has different shapes. It's difficult to say. But the main room, the sitting room, is about, altogether, about 900 square foot.

(loud cracking sound)

Prabhupāda: Oh, this business is going on.

Devotee: Mahāṁśa went down and stopped it.

Prabhupāda: Everyone can go, but the business will go on.

Saurabha: So that is your sitting room. Then you have a bedroom.

Prabhupāda: What is the sitting room?

Saurabha: That is about 900, no 850 square foot.

Prabhupāda: Eight hundred means length and breadth?

Saurabha: I'll have to think. Because it consists of three rooms.

Prabhupāda: So people were enthusiastic to come to our festival?

Saurabha: Oh, yes. Very much.

Prabhupāda: That is wanted.

Saurabha: I mean, this place, when it is finished, it will be the most popular temple in Bombay.

Prabhupāda: They have done.

Saurabha: It's the biggest. It's already the biggest. So this is the building (unfolding plans), and these three rooms—this is 32 by 32—is your sitting room, where you can receive people. Then here is your bedroom, and here is the secretary room, here is kitchen, and here is servant room. So personally you have this, four rooms.

Prabhupāda: What are these?

Saurabha: This is the elevator.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Saurabha: This is elevator. Then this is the entry where the people can wait in case many people are there. Here's the secretary. This is the kitchen and . . .

Hari-śauri: Bathroom?

Saurabha: That is . . . that is . . . like those things come out here. That is all connected with the room. So your bedroom, you have one toilet here and one shower here, each side.

Prabhupāda: That's good.

Saurabha: This is very nice, quite big. Then on the roof you have practically the whole roof, plus a room in the middle. Here is a room on the roof, the next slide, room here, and then you have just a nice terrace and very nice breeze.

Prabhupāda: All sides open.

Saurabha: Yes, this is open. Well, we have arches here, just arches, for the . . . now we are finishing for the temple the second-floor slab. That should be finished at the end of the month, and then one more month, the main slab of the darśana-maṇḍapa, and then we start towers, which we already started now precasting. We have rings. We make rings which we put up later, one by one.

Prabhupāda: Oh, it is by ring.

Saurabha: Yes, we make rings out of concrete, and then we . . . with a rod we keep holes in it, and then we just put them on top and it's . . . because for Māyāpur, we get into Māyāpur, we're trying it out if that is possible to do that there, because there are so many domes. So this system is very practical because you can cast at site, and then with a crane you bring it up and then it's fixed. Because this short ring, to make a tower on top of a building is very troublesome.

Prabhupāda: This ring, concrete ring?

Saurabha: Yes, concrete. Reinforced. Most of the rings are one foot and some, when it is straight, you make two feet. It depends. Then all the guest rooms we have marble on the floor, because that is very much liked in Bombay especially, to have marble. The halls, they are kota stone.

Prabhupāda: So there is proposal to provide a bank?

Saurabha: Yes. I have the area already marked out. There's about four or five banks that are very interested.

Prabhupāda: Which bank are interested?

Saurabha: The Indian Overseas Bank. That is the bank most interested at the time now. Then the State Bank of India.

Prabhupāda: State Bank of India. That is better.

Saurabha: That is better. Then the Syndicate Bank and the . . .

Prabhupāda: So the charges will be four rupees.

Saurabha: Four or four and a half.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So best. Whoever gives the best.

Saurabha: Yeah. And then one year in advance payment?

Prabhupāda: Yes, if we get from . . .

Saurabha: Of course, the location is excellent. It is . . . this is . . . there's two towers, and here is the road. Here is that, our road, going to our land in the back. Here is the main entry. Here is the temple in the back. So these two on the ground floor are meant for bank. So people can come right from here, and here is an entry. So place is the best for the bank. So they all want that place. So you think State Bank of India is the best?

Prabhupāda: No, as you think.

Saurabha: I don't know very much, but Gopāla said that the Indian Overseas Bank is an upcoming bank as well as Syndicate Bank, so they may be more eager for this.

Prabhupāda: Syndicate Bank is not very . . .

Saurabha: I also think to have a big bank is better.

Prabhupāda: Big bank is better. And who pays the best price.

Saurabha: The best. And also the facilities. Now, in the floor we start tiling, the basement floor . . . under the Deities there we have a basement. So there we have started the flooring, tiling, and now we have decided on all the other parts of the building, for the stone. So they promised, they say they guarantee, that at the end of this year the building—that means the guesthouse—will be completed. And of course, that includes the temple. The only thing which will definitely go on is the marble work, the carving. That is a very big job. But that we can always continue. That is mainly outside work, finishing. So that we get the inside ready for the opening.

Prabhupāda: ISKCON Juhu? That is sufficient address?

Saurabha: Well, this was hand-delivered. It would be nice if . . . I think now it is sufficient. Many letters come like that now.

Prabhupāda: No, we are famous now, Juhu.

Saurabha: But your official letters, the name of the street is called Nyer Road.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Saurabha: The name of the street is called A. B. Nyer Road. I never knew that. I thought it was the road in the back.

Prabhupāda: No, they said Gandhi . . . Juhu Road?

Saurabha: No. Now on the latest letter that I got, I think, from the government it was written A. B. Nyer Road. Maybe it was an old letter, I don't know. When we submitted the new plans for the gurukula building, there was a letter I had to sign about the work, that we have given that to the architect, an official letter so that we can get the permission. And it was written that the plot was on the A. B. Nyer Road, our land. So I inquired, and they said, "Yes, that's the name of that road."

Prabhupāda: Is there any signboard, A. B. Nyer Road?

Saurabha: No.

Prabhupāda: Then?

Saurabha: That is only in the back near that new hotel, that Holiday Inn Hotel. This one portion says A. B. Nyer Road. So that road goes like this—here is the Juhu Market, and the road goes . . .

Prabhupāda: No, we go on as Hare Krishna Land, Juhu.

Saurabha: Yes, that is . . . you don't have to say the road.

Prabhupāda: Hare Krishna Land, Juhu.

Saurabha: Yes. Everyone knows. It's no problem. Now, the altar of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, I sent you a picture that showed four columns—one here, one here, one here, and then the top. And here is Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, and here is Lalitā-Viśākhā. Those columns here, they're not in the front but they're in the back only. In front it is open.

Prabhupāda: Open. That's nice.

Saurabha: So then that is all right to use that one?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Saurabha: Because we need more breadth, this is different size. So that work has been started also. And it will be covered in silk.

Prabhupāda: You have seen this temple?

Saurabha: I have not gone around, but it looks very nice.

Prabhupāda: It is after your design.

Saurabha: Yes. But I haven't been in Hyderabad for at least eight months.

Prabhupāda: They have done nice.

Saurabha: Yes. Mahāṁśa Swami has done very nice. There's many good workers also in the south of India. We had a lot of difficulty in getting those men from Vṛndāvana sent to America for Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: Is he anxious to get them?

Saurabha: Well, simply because they didn't speak English they delayed so much.

Prabhupāda: Now, Kīrtanānanda did not show any anxiety for that. He did not show any anxiety like that, he requires that. So why it is?

Saurabha: Well, at that time they wanted.

Prabhupāda: That time wanted? That is finished now. Don't bother.

Saurabha: All right. Because I spent a lot of time in trying to arrange that.

Prabhupāda: That was not successful. That's all right.

Saurabha: No. That work is going nice also, isn't it, flooring especially, the marble work.

Prabhupāda: Marble.

Saurabha: In New Vrindavan.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Let them do in their own way.

Saurabha: They practically do everything themselves.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.

Saurabha: That is their greatness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Their men are being trained up.

Saurabha: That is actually the best.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Saurabha: They will be engaged always like that.

Prabhupāda: They have got marble-polishing machine.

Saurabha: Yes. Last night I spoke with Jayapatākā Mahārāja, and he says that the land requisition will be in about two months or something. So whether we should go ahead with trying to purchase land before, or wait till . . .?

Prabhupāda: Purchase land?

Saurabha: Well, that particular area where the main temple will come, we need about . . .

Prabhupāda: So let us wait.

Saurabha: Let us wait. So can I start in the meantime to develop the plans?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Saurabha: To contact engineers and everything? Now, if I have to pay some money for that type of work, do I take it from the Bombay . . .? It is not much, but some money is there, some expense is there.

Prabhupāda: So . . . (break) . . . immediately. You have waited. Why not wait till the researching is there?

Saurabha: I have some people, they do practically things for free. They work on it. But they only do that because they know in the future we're going to do it. So if there is too much delay, they may lose faith.

Prabhupāda: Delay? But that's a fact. Unless government gives us land . . . (break) . . . but we . . . we are not Kṛṣṇa. But if we remain Kṛṣṇa conscious strong, then our position is strong. If there is slackness, then they will come to kill us. That we have to see. Āpani ācari' prabhu jīve śikhāilā. Our behavior should be very clear. "Caesar's wife must be above suspicion." Then it will be . . . this Aghāsura, Bakāsura will come and . . . in the beginning there was Aghāsura, Pūtanā. That Devānanda, "Hare Kṛṣṇa Film," he wanted to do some harm. And he is gone, finished. Nobody talks of Devānanda. They talk of our movement. So if you remain strong in your spiritual activities, these Aghāsura, Bakāsura will come, go. But we should take precaution and counteract to reduce them. Real strength will remain from Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma's strength. Balarāma. Balarāma means strength. Nāyam ātmā bala hīna na labhyaḥ. If you are not supported by Balarāma, then it is not possible. So we have got our Balarāma, Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma temple. Now in Europe we have got Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In France.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: Which place? Outside? The farm?

Prabhupāda: Very nice.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Exactly like Vṛndāvana, I heard. The Deities are exactly . . .

Prabhupāda: Nitāi-Gaura and Balarāma. Brajendra-nandana jei kṛṣṇa, śaci-suta haila sei: "He is now Śacī-suta." Balarāma haila nitāi: "And Balarāma has become Nitāi." That's all. These two brothers. And devotees are very nice. So if our devotees remain . . . two hundred devotees there are. Yes. And they are taking prasāda on the open lawn. Very nice. Presently they are growing vegetables sufficient for their consumption and for the Paris temple. Fresh, nice vegetables. Flowers. Grains also they have got—barley and wheat. Milk also. Their own cows.

Gargamuni: Cows.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. So if there is milk, there is food grain, there is vegetable, so what do you want more? Enough we can grow. They have got two hundred acres of land. Some portion of the land they are utilizing. That is becoming sufficient for them. And if they grow the whole land, they can make good trade. Just like in Philadelphia they are producing so much milk, they are selling outside fifteen hundred dollars per month. Fifteen hundred dollars, how much it is?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Fourteen thousand.

Saurabha: Twelve thousand.

Prabhupāda: That is their income. The Philadelphia they have organized very nice.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Port Royal farm. Very nice.

Prabhupāda: And this Paramānanda, he is expert. He's very expert.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He was in New Vrindavan before.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So he could not keep in line with Kīrtanānanda. (laughs)

Gargamuni: I thought he was in New York farm.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That is the New York farm.

Prabhupāda: That is.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's in Philadelphia.

Gargamuni: Yes, I heard it is very good there.

Prabhupāda: His wife is . . . they are making . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Satyabhāmā.

Prabhupāda: . . . cāpāṭis. When she brought, it was so thick. And "How shall I eat this?" But when I ate, it was so nice. Soft and sweet. I ate everything.

Jayapatākā: Devotees have brought from the farm.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe she should come here to cook for you.

Prabhupāda: Oh, very good. No, they are very happy. All the boys and girls are very happy. Sit down. So that I want, that live happily and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. We don't want unnecessary luxury. Anartha. Anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. Anartha should be reduced, nil; bare necessities. Anartha . . . just like this material things we require for preaching. That is not anartha. But when it is used for sense gratification, that is anartha. Anything for sense gratification, that is unwanted, anartha. And anything for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is spiritual.

Jayapatākā: Anukūla.

Prabhupāda: Anukūla. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167). So whatever we are using, that is not material. It is all spiritual. Hmm. So what are these? So . . . Mahabaleshwar . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I've cancelled it. I'll send tickets for . . .

Prabhupāda: So two strong opinion was against. One Kanadaji, another Gargamuni.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Another?

Prabhupāda: Gargamuni. He was also not in favor, going to hill station.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay, that's fine. When you come to Bombay in October, you can go, October or November, whenever you come . . .

Prabhupāda: Hill station, I have also heard—I do not know—that during rainy season they get some diarrhea.

Gargamuni: Get some what?

Prabhupāda: Get some diarrhea. And that hill diarrhea is not . . .

Gargamuni: Good.

Prabhupāda: Not at all.

Gargamuni: Best season for hill station is May and June. May and June.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's when most people go—in the summer months.

Gargamuni: Very nice. Very warm.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Summer period.

Saurabha: Most people in the rainy season, they all leave that place, many houses. They close it all.

Gargamuni: Yes. In Simla and Nainital everyone leaves after June.

Saurabha: But after the rainy season?

Gargamuni: Yes, in October again they go back.

Prabhupāda: Rainy season is bad on the whole.

Saurabha: That place, yeah. But the rest of the year it's excellent.

Prabhupāda: That all right.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But I've told that Mr. Malhotra to come and see you here . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . directly, because he wants to meet you. Actually he wasn't . . . after meeting you, he'll decide. Thirty-five acres of land. It has a dak bungalow.

Saurabha: Yes, we went there about one and a half months ago.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We saw the place.

Prabhupāda: So can you . . . you have . . . give me a site plans.

Saurabha: Yes, I . . . approximately?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Saurabha: You want me to show you?

Prabhupāda: No, you can . . . not immediately . . . you can give me very nice, where is the bungalow, where is the . . . you can give.

Saurabha: But these two people, they are very much in favor. They were all the time, when we went . . .

Prabhupāda: No, if it is nice, we shall take it. Why not?

Saurabha: It is beautiful. It's very beautiful.

Prabhupāda: It's near Bombay. So if you can go and come . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Bombay is going to be so big when the building is completed.

Saurabha: It's on a hill, but the land is flat so you can cultivate it.

Prabhupāda: So it is very good.

Saurabha: It's excellent. And from there you can see down. You look down, and then you see the river Kṛṣṇā.

Prabhupāda: It is a plateau.

Saurabha: Yes, a plateau.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: See the river Kṛṣṇā.

Saurabha: Yes, you can just see the river flowing down there.

Prabhupāda: Oh, it is beautiful spot.

Saurabha: It's very, very beautiful.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And he wants us to develop it.

Prabhupāda: Oh, we develop. We shall spend lakhs, two lakhs, three lakhs, as you . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So he wants us to give him a proposal . . .

Saurabha: And it has been . . . they have been doing agriculture before, there, so it's in very good state. You don't have to do much.

Prabhupāda: Oh, then we shall take it. What is use of going? He has seen already. Take it.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no, he wanted you to see it. That was . . .

Prabhupāda: That, we shall go in October. We shall go there. So when Saurabha has seen, that is my seeing. You give me a site plan. And we shall take it and develop it.

Gargamuni: So many of our men get ill health. They can go there . . .

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Gargamuni: . . . and then come back. Then we don't have to send them to America . . .

Prabhupāda: No.

Gargamuni: . . . because of being sick.

Prabhupāda: No.

Gargamuni: We need a place—health.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda wrote . . . he wrote that to me last year, to get a hill station . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. The Mahabaleshwar is well known. Yes.

Jayapatākā: They have nice cows there, nice vegetables.

Saurabha: Oh, yes. They has that. Everywhere, that . . . what is the name of that root we ate on ekādaśī?

Prabhupāda: So take it and develop according to your plan. Develop.

Saurabha: It's a place known for strawberry cultivation.

Prabhupāda: What do you think will be the expenditure to develop it into a nice place?

Saurabha: For agriculture I can't say, but according to me, it is all level. They have leveled everything out. It's like a terrace. It's just . . . we can start growing anything there—potatoes, grains, strawberries, fruits.

Prabhupāda: Now for residential quarter there is already bungalow.

Saurabha: There is a bungalow with four big . . . it's a big bungalow. And stone is available there, just like here in Hyderabad. At the back of the land it's like a rocky area. One small portion that is so much stone there available, so you can just build from the stone anything. The land can be used for the cement, instead of cement. So very cheap you can build there.

Prabhupāda: One lakh rupees? No.

Saurabha: Well, it depends how many devotees are going to stay. But for a farm, I think . . .

Prabhupāda: Say ten rooms.

Saurabha: Ten rooms.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The gṛhasthas from Bombay could be moved over there.

Prabhupāda: No, gṛhasthas can go to the farm.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they can go from Bombay to there. They can cultivate our farm.

Saurabha: For sixty thousand rupees we can build sufficient accommodation, and then the rest we need for . . .

Prabhupāda: So we can spend up to one lakh and make more rooms.

Saurabha: Yes. And when you come there, the house is sufficient for you to stay. It's very nice. Big rooms.

Prabhupāda: So we shall go in October.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: October.

Saurabha: There's three big wells available. Three big wells are there.

Prabhupāda: Wells? Very good.

Saurabha: Three. And according to me, these people, they also want to invest money in that project. The people themselves, they want to give also money for developing. No?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No. They want to turn it over to us . . .

Prabhupāda: And that do.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . if we give them guarantee that we will develop it.

Prabhupāda: No, no, we shall do. You guarantee that. The decision is made. So you can take . . . (indistinct)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And from what I've heard, this Malhotra is a very—Girirāja told me—very, very nice man.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He is not going to . . . he's a very, very rich man himself, so he's not really trying to cheat us or anything.

Prabhupāda: That decision is made. It is a very well known place, Mahabaleshwar.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Mahabaleshwar.

Saurabha: Just on the other side of the plateau you have that RMA, ARA? No. That institute . . . (indistinct discussion)

Prabhupāda: Aurobindo?

Saurabha: No.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I think Mahabaleshwar is also the summer capital of Mahara . . . all the government ministers have their meetings there. And this Bhogilal Patel's son, he was saying that he knows all the big people there, so can introduce me to the chairman of the local municipality . . .

Prabhupāda: So we must have a big temple there.

Saurabha: MRA? It's a moral institute. It's very big.

Prabhupāda: MRA?

Saurabha: MRA, yes.

Prabhupāda: Moral . . .?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Moral Re-armament.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Saurabha: It's just on the other side.

Prabhupāda: So it is still existing?

Saurabha: Oh, yes. The building is excellent, but nothing is going on. Only twice a year they have a meeting. But it's very well built.

Prabhupāda: Their propaganda is that, "You . . ." Christian program. "You do whatever you like. You simply admit. Confession. Then you'll be . . ."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Atone.

Prabhupāda: This is morality. "You commit immorality as much as you like, you simply admit it. Then it's right." This is their . . . they do not want to stop immorality. "You do, and don't hide it—you admit." But persons are so shameless that they will continually do, and they have no shamefulness to hide even. That is the Christian theory that, "Our religion is so . . . we may do. We are unable to remain without any sin. Christ will excuse us." Is it not? This is going on.

Saurabha: They're also criticized a lot there. They have been criticized a lot there locally. People, they think they are CIA.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Us?

Saurabha: No. The MRA. Because they have big meetings twice a year only, and they just . . .

Prabhupāda: The MRA, they are Americans?

Saurabha: Yes. Most are Europeans, Americans. Most.

Prabhupāda: This movement was started by President Eisenhower with the help of a Christian priest.

Saurabha: Now the son of Gandhi, he is the main president . . .

Prabhupāda: Who?

Saurabha: The son of Mahatma Gandhi.

Prabhupāda: Shri Ramdas Gandhi?

Saurabha: He's the head man of that institute there. And then some very big European industrialists, they are also involved. They've spent two crores of rupees on that complex. It's very well maintained also. I went into the building. It's excellent. But there is nobody.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Nobody. (break) (loud kīrtana in background) So he can immediately come.

Mahāṁśa: The door is ready, so when you go for a bath . . .

Prabhupāda: No, he can come.

Mahāṁśa: Now he can come?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Mahāṁśa Swami is . . . (indistinct)

Hari-śauri: He's very sincere.

Prabhupāda: And everyone likes him.

Hari-śauri: Yes. He's very popular with the Life Members.

Prabhupāda: He has no enemy. Nobody has complained against him.

Hari-śauri: He's very even-tempered.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Neither he has complained against anybody. He does not complain, and nobody complains against him. That means . . . (indistinct) . . . his mother was very much sorry. Now she is very happy.

Hari-śauri: He joined in the West?

Prabhupāda: He is Parsi.

Hari-śauri: He's not Indian.

Prabhupāda: No, he is Indian. India, there is Parsi community. Indian Parsi means that originally they come from Iran.

Hari-śauri: Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

Prabhupāda: They are Iranian. But on account of Muhammadans forcibly standing within the way . . . Aurangzeb came. Muhammadans, they came. They fled from Iran sixth century, and took shelter in the western part of India. They took shelter in Gujarat. Persia . . . I think Iran was known as Persia.

Hari-śauri: Yes. At least that area, anyway.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are known as Parsi. In their ritualistic ceremonies some . . . (indistinct) . . . married.

Hari-śauri: Yes. I saw all the women, they keep themselves covered and everything.

Prabhupāda: Sārī?

Hari-śauri: Most of them were wearing trousers.

Prabhupāda: No. Parsis are well known for sārīs.

Hari-śauri: In Iran, though, I saw most of the women wear . . . under those black veils they were actually wearing trousers.

Prabhupāda: Not wearing sārīs?

(long pause)

Prabhupāda: We have no problems except this immigration.

Hari-śauri: Yes. That's the main thing.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise we have . . . (indistinct)

Hari-śauri: By the time they've finished all their investigations, they'll . . . eventually they'll have to let us come. At least maybe in Calcutta it will be easier. In Calcutta, with the authorities there, if we get this . . . if we start building Māyāpur, then they'll be a lot more lenient about letting us stay.

Prabhupāda: That is already . . .

Hari-śauri: Yes. They've taken the best area of . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: I think this leg swelling is gone.

Hari-śauri: Yes. It only came when we were in Iran because of the altitude. Then, as soon as we left, it went away again. That doctor in New York, he said it was because when your blood pressure goes up, then it's difficult for the heart to pump. So then fluid forms in the leg because of the bad blood circulation.

Prabhupāda: That was his diagnosis.

Hari-śauri: Yes. So as soon as we came . . . like in New Vrindavan, a little bit high, then again it changes over. But then, as soon as we left, then it stopped again.

Prabhupāda: Then this Mahabaleshwar will not be . . .

Hari-śauri: No. If it's very high, the altitude will not be so good. As soon as we arrived in Iran, immediately the next day the swelling was there. I don't know how high this will be, but New Vrindavan is not so high.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes?

Hari-śauri: I think someone said about 1200 feet. Not very much. But that may be because the atmosphere in the hills is a little rarified as well.

Prabhupāda: I had vision of . . . (indistinct) . . . more than going to the hill . . . (indistinct) . . . it is higher than sea level anyway. Therefore this northern portion of India is called upper.

Hari-śauri: Where the mountains begin.

Prabhupāda: It is very higher than the sea level. It is called upper because it is much higher, very high from the ocean. But I was . . . Vṛndāvana is also that part of . . . (indistinct) . . . only Bengal is not upper.

Hari-śauri: Yes, it's low.

Prabhupāda: It is near the sea, so . . . (end)