770302 - Conversation - Mayapur

Conversations by Date, 1977

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

770302R1-MAYAPUR - March 02, 1977 - 19:31 Minutes

Prabhupāda: In so many ways Kṛṣṇa is trying to convince that a living soul is different—completely different from matter. Acchedyo 'yam adāhyo 'yam (BG 2.24): "It cannot be cut into pieces. It cannot be burned. It cannot be moistened. It cannot be dried up." In so many ways. "It does not take birth. It does not die. It is not finished after the body is finished." This is the greatest ignorance. And if they want to keep people in ignorance, that is not good business. In the name of education, cheating. Why there should be education? What is the benefit?

Girirāja: Well, this gives excuse for unrestricted sense gratification, although actually there's no benefit of that. It just makes people more unhappy.

Prabhupāda: Without scientific knowledge the animals are also gratifying their senses. Why they take to the platform of education for sense gratification? What can be benefit? It doesn't require . . . viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt (SB 11.9.29). Even the birds and beasts, they have got facilities for sense gratification. The pig, they have got very good facility for sense gratification—no distinction between mother, sister anyone. The pig has got greater facility. So why in the name of education?

Hari-śauri: Intellectual sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: What is that intellectual?

Girirāja: I think the idea is that if everything is just coming from matter and there's no God, then there's no rules and regulations to restrict the sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: But that you could not prove. You are under some control. Why don't you see to that? You may think you are independent, but you are under control. Nobody wants to die—you die. So what is the benefit of showing that "I am independent"? (pause) Any arrangement with any bank for our temple branch? (break) What is the situation with the tenants?

Girirāja: Um . . . well, nobody is immediately planning to vacate, and the hopes of the cases is always delayed. Actually, the lawyer says that the court is dealing with cases before 1973. Actually, the judicial system is very bad.

Prabhupāda: Very bad.

Girirāja: They go on giving dates, but actually they have no intention of settling it. So he said that the only cases they are finalizing are in the year before or two years before when we filed our cases. So he thinks it will just go on until the cases of those years come up.

Prabhupāda: We have got only one case of Deva, Deva . . .

Girirāja: Devasan. Then actually there's one other which was carried over from Mrs. Nair. When she was the landlady one tenant left and put another person there. But, I mean, the tenants are . . . I mean they're gaining more and more respect for us.

Prabhupāda: After all, they are human being.

Girirāja: Yes. Actually most people are. They see the book distribution, the construction, and the time factor, that we are still pushing on; we're not going away. Many factors. They see the leaders are also appreciating our activities. Actually our movement is very all-encompassing. Our movement is all-encompassing. I mean I've really seen from Svarūpa Dāmodara that . . . I mean your same teachings we can dress up in different garbs and present to anyone, and they will be convinced, unless they are very envious. I mean . . .

Prabhupāda: Iron-clad demons, they will be remain.

Girirāja: But innocent people, they can be convinced. One thing I was concerned about for the paṇḍāl is that many of these leading personalities, they would want to meet Your Divine Grace. But at the same time it might be very strenuous for you to come from Juhu every day.

Prabhupāda: Not every day.

Girirāja: Just selected days. The other alternative would be to arrange a place closer to the paṇḍāl, but then it would have to be with some member like Kartikeya or someone.

Prabhupāda: That is near paṇḍāl, Kartikeya's house?

Girirāja: Well, it's about a fifteen or twenty minute drive.

Prabhupāda: That is also good.

Girirāja: Because, I mean, if your health permits, and if you could come every day, then we could arrange very leading people for all of those days . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Girirāja: . . . and it would enthuse them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bombay is good place for propaganda, for making any movement popular.

Girirāja: Yes. People are very modern and advanced. In Delhi they're all, I mean . . .

Prabhupāda: Servant of.

Girirāja: . . . too much afraid of the government.

Prabhupāda: Servant class. They are not independent. (break) So I am very seriously thinking about organizing your institute. So how much hopeful it is?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: How much hopeful? I think there's a great potential. It is a great future, and I can see that if we start publishing the first journal, volume, then it's going to attract many people from the academic circles and intellectual surroundings, and in some time I can see that there will be a whole new field of preaching in the academic circles all over the world, not only in India and United States, Canada, but Europe. Europe is going to be observe better centers along these lines. In fact, there are some very leading men in Cambridge and Oxford going to open the whole . . .

Prabhupāda: So arrange for that, what to do, immediately.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. So we have our Indian headquarter in Bombay, and we can organize in such a manner that . . .

Prabhupāda: Where you will give them place?

Girirāja: Well, we could give them where your quarters used to be. Next to the sannyāsī āśrama.

Prabhupāda: Will that do?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Especially when our new temple is complete, that lecture hall or that theater hall . . .

Girirāja: Oh, yes. This is just in the meantime.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, just for the time being?

Girirāja: Yeah.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah. For the time being, actually, we are planning to finish up some of the articles that we have been writing. We want to make it in a final form. So the other two scientists are also here. They are anxious to get it printed, and Gopāla Kṛṣṇa promised me that he could print it in our Bombay BBT. So we are just about ready to print about a few articles so that we can print it as a monograph. And then, in about three months or so . . . I'm planning to leave for the States by the first week of April or so.

Prabhupāda: First week of?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Pardon?

Prabhupāda: First week? What did . . .?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, at the end of the first week of April, or in the middle of April at the latest. Then, in about six months, I have decided to finish the book we have been writing. So if by six months' full time, all three of us together can work hard . . . there's a lot to be studied, studies. So I've made a proposal for the three of us in which we'd work real hard for six months to finish the book. And then, by that time we will have the first volume of the journal plus the book. So we can go out for preaching. We can all have the material for . . . just speaking, sometimes it's so difficult for others to understand what's there. They want to really study our work. And then we can also do some saṅkīrtana while we're preaching. Then in the future we might also be self-sufficient, not supplying any money from BBT. It will be a burden to the BBT fund, and so also we wanted to generate so that it can be self-sufficient, rather than donation by BBT . . .

Prabhupāda: They pay for scientific lecture. When there is some scientific lecture . . .

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. We are going to charge higher also this time. That's going to be . . . it involves a lot of hard work, and the scientific community will be open for this type of . . . we are not saying something dogmatic. We are presenting in such a manner that it's very scientific, and it's ready for discussion. There's no way that they can check it, that "It's coming from this movement. So, no, that's not knowledge." It must be open. It must be open-minded. We must change our views. And if you feel that our views are inferior, then you tell us. If it's not inferior, then there is no reason that you shouldn't take it seriously.

Prabhupāda: So when Bombay festival will go on, your presence will be required.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. I'll be coming . . . I already requested Girirāja to make a few engagements so that . . . I'd like them to speak. This time I will let them speak, our two scientists, because Americans. And I want to see the reactions also. I already know my situation there, and I want to let them speak, and they are very eager to do that. I already talked with them. And I requested Girirāja to make a few very high academic circles like Atomic Research Center. Because one of our men is very good in quantum physics. He can talk all about this mathematical formulations and a little bit about Bhagavad-gītā consciousness. So that would be . . .

Prabhupāda: That will be . . . (chuckles)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: . . . very challenging, very impressive to the Indian audience.

Girirāja: We know a big man in the Atomic Energy Department already, so I think you can arrange this meeting.

Prabhupāda: He's convinced?

Girirāja: Well, actually we met him some time ago, and at that time he liked your books a lot. He bought some of your books, and he thought that this would help purify him and his family.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We were already thinking of printing about a few months ago before I came here in the form of monographs. We have already finished some articles. And we are . . . Mādhava suggested that we print this in the form of monographs and then combine within one journal. Then we in our Washington meeting in December, we thought that idea, because we thought the journal was not too far. So we printed the whole . . . so we did some . . . I also want to talk with Rāmeśvara Mahārāja, since he's here, for about printing policies and some of the artwork we'll be needing in the journal. I want to put a lot of illustrations, scientific, and want to make it very nice as well as very scientific. So in Bombay Gopāla Kṛṣṇa Prabhu told me that there's not so much facility for artwork and art.

Prabhupāda: Our men can do that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. But in BBT in Los Angeles.

Hari-śauri: They're all set up to do the whole thing, to do the artwork and to print it very nicely. Gopāla's artwork is just . . . he gets the color separations from America.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is only disadvantage here. Otherwise he's ready to print. That they can do fast.

Prabhupāda: So there is no harm. We can do there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Where? In Los Angeles? But I don't know. Things are too slow in the West to communicate. So I've . . .

Prabhupāda: No, you can go. In your presence you can get it done.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I requested our Bharadvāja Prabhu a long time ago to . . . our Bhaktivedanta Institute, that he design the logo. It's almost two years. He said he would do it, but I think he's also very busy. Things too slow on that . . .

Hari-śauri: To design the logo?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. The design he told me. That was in New York when Śrīla Prabhupāda was in New York, and he talked very seriously of this request to do it. He's the expert, real . . .

Hari-śauri: (indistinct) . . . some of the artists are in there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He's here? . . . (indistinct) . . . (break) (end)