770413 - Conversation - Bombay

Conversations by Date, 1977

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

770413R1-BOMBAY - April 13, 1977 - 46:45 Minutes

Prabhupāda: Now you have to do so many things. (laughs) Again, another burden. You have to do all these things. So how your preaching?

Girirāja: Very good. Haridāsa had gone to Poona, and in two days he made four Life Members, and he was getting a chance to meet some big people, so he asked me to come. It was very nice. I met one young man, about thirty years old. He's one of the nicest men I've met in a long time. He really agreed with everything we were saying, and he's . . .

Prabhupāda: Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ (SB 2.3.19).

Girirāja: Well, he agreed that the modern civilization is a failure and that people are not happy, that people were more happy before.

Prabhupāda: It is a dangerous civilization. You . . . you should . . . (pause as things are moved around) Dangerous civilization that labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte (SB 11.9.29). After many, many millions of years one gets the chance of becoming a human being, especially civilized and especially in India. They will bring the same. And Kṛṣṇa personally says that if this chance is missed and a person does not become God realized, then he again returns back to the . . . to the . . . today I am a prime minister—tomorrow, if I become a dog, what is this civilization? And they will have to become. Nature's law we cannot avoid. And there is no question, "Why you are touching me? I am prime minister." Who cares for you? You have to take account of your activities, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). So human life is so important, and we are simply wasting this valuable life with this temporary adjustment of so-called happiness or distress—big, big plans. Simply bluffing. Indira Gandhi, one daridrāṇaṁ hatā: "Poverty drive away." Now she is poverty-stricken. "Oh, you want to drive away poverty? Now drive away your own poverty. Where is your position? How you can drive away? You do not dare to come out, twelve nights." Within one day. Who has made it? This is possible for everyone. Why do they not care, this important knowledge? This knowledge is India's knowledge, and India government is callous. They are not interested in distributing this knowledge. Sarasvatī jñāna-khale yathā satī (SB 10.2.19). Just like a person who has got enough knowledge, but he does not give it to others, it is to check the flame. Such a risky civilization. The knowledge is there, and people are kept in darkness. What is this? Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So we are the only friends, within this world, of the human society.

Girirāja: That's true. It's a fact.

Prabhupāda: This should be recognized. And sober men, leaders, they should come forward. And India's this vast knowledge will be . . . that is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission.

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Paropakāra. They have got this opportunity how to get out of this entanglement of being covered by the material body, and they are not being given the chance. And we are giving the chance so easy. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni . . . (CC Antya 20.12). Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni, the same thing. Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni. This repetition of birth and death, it is the blazing fire of material existence. So when one understands that "What is my position?" then he'll do this, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, clear understanding, "Oh . . ." What is this nonsense nationality? Today I am Indian; tomorrow I am a dog. Where is my nation? Where is my family? Where is my father? Where is my mother? So to become mad after these things is my business, or to get out of this material entanglement is my business? And we have got so much facilities. Kṛṣṇa is instructing, Himself. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is teaching personally how to live. And we are not taking advantage? What a suicidal policy. And they are becoming leader, Jayapataka Narayan and this . . . what is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Prakash Narayan.

Prabhupāda: Jaya Prakash Narayan. Morarji Desai, Indira Gandhi, and . . . what they'll do? Churchill and this and Napoleon, Hitler. Simply misguiding, whole history. Simply misguiding. They are rascals. They do not know what is what, and they lead. Gandhi . . . all rascals. Vivekananda and Sai Baba, this, that, so many. They should be stopped. That is real philanthropic activities. Where is . . .? Now we are going to show this planetarium. These rascal scientists: "All desert. All rocks and desert." Simply this planet, for his father's property. This is now happening. "The moon planet is a desert." And from the desert such brilliant light is coming that is illuminating at night the whole universe. And we have to believe it because they are spoken by scientists. You see? All rascals, fools, rogues, thieves, they are leading. And our determination is to stop these rascals, rascal leaders. That is our . . . it is not that "Let the rascals go on with their . . . let us make our own salvation." Prahlāda Mahārāja said: "No, no, no, I don't want. I don't want. If there is salvation, I must take them also." This is Vaiṣṇava. "I don't want such salvation for my personal . . ." This is Vaiṣṇava, para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī kṛpāmbudhir yas tam ahaṁ prapadye (CC Madhya 6.254). Naturally a Vaiṣṇava will be unhappy. Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa indriyārtha-māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). You know this verse? So we must know that these so-called leaders . . . just see. He could not do it nicely.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: But first of all we must know also what is the position. If we also become enamored by the so-called scientists, politicians, philosophers, then we cannot preach. We must definitely be convinced that they're all rascals. As a gentleman, I can give him some respect. That is another thing. But he's a rascal. You must know that, "I am talking with a rascal number one." So I . . . he cannot deviate me from my position. But I can talk in a nice way, gentlemanly. That is another thing. That is courtesy. But I must know that these rascals, number fools, number-one fools, they have no idea. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore said, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva (CC Madhya 19.151). In this way they are rotting within this universe. Kabhu svarge kabhu martye narake ḍubāya. Sometimes by puṇya they are in the higher planetary system, some powerful lokas. Sometimes fish, sometimes demigod, sometimes dog and cat. This is going on. Kṛṣṇa says. Nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani, botheration. Then there is . . . we have got this . . . any intelligent person gets the Bhagavad-gītā. The rascals are reading Bhagavad-gītā, do not understand a line even. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). They do not question even. And after the destruction, body, I am not annihilated. Then where I am going? What is my next life? Na jāyate na mriyate vā: he does not die. The body is changed. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). So everything clearly said. They do not inquire even that "After changing this body or change dress, what kind of body or dress I am going to have?" Answer is there. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). Everything there. And they are reading Bhagavad-gītā. Gandhi's reading Bhagavad-gītā. Tilak is reading Bhagavad-gītā. Where is their knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā? And misleading all, writing commentary, "Bhagavad-gītā means nationalism, nonviolence," protesting that "If Kṛṣṇa is fighting, I don't want that Kṛṣṇa, even I am extricated from the Hindu society." Gandhi has said. (laughs) Bhagavad-gītā should be according to his whims. If you can change the verdict of Bhagavad-gītā, then why you take Bhagavad-gītā? Is that authority? If you . . . government gives you some law. If you say, "No, no, I don't like this item. I . . . it should be like this," then is that law, that "I'll take Bhagavad-gītā . . ."? All these rascals are doing that. The Cinmayananda, they are now, "I'll change according to my whims." Then where is the authority? If I say that, "Girirāja, you go there, to the bank," "No, no, I cannot do this. I can do only this," then where is my authority? (laughs) Just see. These rascals are doing that. We are therefore presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, no change. We do not change. Anybody seriously reading our book, he'll be liberated. There is no doubt. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). That's a fact. If not all books, simply Kṛṣṇa book, if one reads carefully, daily, he is liberated undoubtedly. (pause) So how many members you have made?

Girirāja: Well, altogether we made nine members. And then this one young man is going to donate for one of the parts of the building.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Girirāja: I met one young man, and he may donate for one of these rooms fifty thousand. Otherwise he'll donate for some . . . either twenty-five thousand or, minimum, eleven thousand. Then a lot of people wanted to arrange our speaking engagements at Rotary Club, Lions Club and different associations, so we're arranging towards the end of May to go back again and have a . . . maybe a week, every night, different program.

Prabhupāda: Very good. Poona is not far away.

Girirāja: Oh, no. It's two or three hours.

Prabhupāda: By train. So it is nice place, educated.

Girirāja: One . . . there's a very big military concentration, so this time we didn't meet any of the military leaders, but I think next time we can arrange a big program there. It's the whole headquarters for, I think, central India or . . .

Prabhupāda: Which . . . it is . . . very much. One program is clear. I think our this Cross Maidan paṇḍāl has given the people study.

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Bombay people.

Girirāja: When we meet people, they comment about it.

Prabhupāda: What do they say?

Girirāja: That "You had a very big program, and . . ." They know the theme also. They say: "Yes, the theme was modern civilization and the failure, and the only solution is Kṛṣṇa consciousness." And then, having so many leading people praise your work . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, a letter came yesterday from, I think, from the chief minister. I haven't opened it yet. Shall I bring it?

Prabhupāda: (aside) Come.

Upendra: (bringing garlands) This one was made by a little girl. The boy who fixed the buzzers, his little daughter made.

Prabhupāda: This is our flower? Hmm. Get all round, flower, the first land vacant. You should plant them. Puṇyo gandhaḥ pṛthivyāṁ ca (BG 7.9).

Upendra: Paramparā mālās. There's five mālās here for the paramparā.

Prabhupāda: First of all hear. Then tomorrow they . . . Kṛṣṇa is helping. He'll help more, more. We are not going to be misled by their leadership.

Girirāja: No. They have nothing to say. Actually, the way you've trained us is very good, that you always present their arguments and then how to defeat them or what is the defect, so when we go out for preaching, we're not baffled by their arguments.

Prabhupāda: That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's policy. Let the rascal Sarvabhauma speak first of all. Let his talk be finished. Hear silently, and then reply. He'll hear.

Girirāja: I found, at least in the business community, there are many mūḍhas.

Prabhupāda: Mood? Ah, mūḍhas, yes.

Girirāja: Their philosophy is to work hard and die.

Prabhupāda: That hog philosophy, which is forbidden. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān (SB 5.5.1). Why? Why you should work so hard? That I said, that Daily Messenger, in the paṇḍāl, hanging . . .

Girirāja: They say that by opening factories they are giving work to so many people, so they can also lead the same . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading letter) "The Chief Minister's Secretariat, Government of Maharastra, Sachivalaya."

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not a very long note. It's signed by the Undersecretary. It says: "Dear Sir, I am desired to acknowledge with thanks receipt of your letter dated the 3rd April, 1977. Yours faithfully, Undersecretary." You sent him a very personal letter. I think he should have . . . he may be a little bit depressed at this time due to having to leave office.

Prabhupāda: That was his dilemma. If he said: "No, we cannot cooperate or join this movement . . ." I asked, letter?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And he was condemned. Officially he cannot make statement.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hmm?

Prabhupāda: Officially he cannot write that, "I should join." Then it becomes a great certificate. We don't mind.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda wrote him a very personal, strong letter.

Prabhupāda: Where is that copy?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have it here.

Girirāja: I met Mr. Rajda yesterday, and I invited him here for prasādam. So he said day after tomorrow.

Prabhupāda: Day after tomorrow means?

Girirāja: Fifteenth. The 15th.

Prabhupāda: What?

Girirāja: Friday.

Prabhupāda: Friday.

Girirāja: And today the other M.P.'s should be coming back from Delhi. So if you like . . .

Prabhupāda: Invite all of them.

Girirāja: I can invite all of them. They're four very important M.P.'s, and they can all come. So if you take rest from one to two, then you can meet them at two.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Girirāja: You take rest usually from . . . up to two o'clock?

Prabhupāda: No, up to three.

Girirāja: Oh, up to three?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading Prabhupāda's letter to minister) So "The Honorable S. D. Chavan, Chief Minister of Maharastra. Dear Sri Chavan, kindly accept my greetings and extend the same to your good wife. I am so much obliged to you that you have lauded our activities throughout the world. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is based on deep science of the laws of nature. This human life is a boon for the conditioned soul to understand this science. I do not wish to take much of your valuable time, but I would have been very much pleased that persons like you, without any political prejudice, come and take up this movement seriously and benefit the whole human society with this knowledge. At least in India, where this knowledge was generated, there must be some institution to know it perfectly and distribute it throughout the world. That will glorify India's prestige. To broadcast India's glorification is the duty of every Indian without any political differences. I wish that you may take some active part in this movement and thus magnify the prestigious position of India. Thank you very much for your coming here today and speaking so nicely about this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Your ever well-wisher, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami."

Girirāja: Nice letter.

Prabhupāda: So yes, no, he . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He couldn't say yes, and he couldn't say no.

Prabhupāda: Position is tottering.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (to Girirāja) You're going to invite some members of the Parliament?

Girirāja: So when would it be convenient for you? Because we can adjust their activities according to when you'll be free.

Prabhupāda: Four.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Four is the nicest time for Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: I don't think the . . . better arrange according to their convenience.

Girirāja: Well, I could try to arrange at four, but then they won't take prasādam.

Prabhupāda: No, no. No, give them prasādam. Make at noon sumptuous prasādam.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At nighttime they would take?

Girirāja: Well, they take at 8:30 at night.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Girirāja: They never take before.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So, I mean, you would see them in the evening?

Prabhupāda: No, no, I'll see them according to their . . .

Girirāja: (aside) Well, I asked Mr. Rajda. I told him, "Our guru time is seven. Would be best if you could come . . ." You know, noontime, three two days later . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Noontime, after your bath? But then that's not . . .

Prabhupāda: No, my bath I take twelve o'clock. At that time how they will come here?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They said that it's convenient.

Girirāja: Well, say . . . what I had arranged was that he would come here, reach here at about one. So I had thought that you rested from about . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Girirāja: . . . 12:30 to two. So I thought we could keep him busy until two. Otherwise, if you want, he can come straight away at one to meet you, and then, after that, you could take rest, and then we could give him prasādam and show him . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In other words, you could either meet him after taking your prasādam at noon but before taking rest, or you could meet him . . .

Prabhupāda: My prasādam-taking is now very important, because I do not take. So I can talk anytime.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would you like to talk before resting or after, Śrīla Prabhupāda, 'cause to him it's the same. So it's up to you.

Prabhupāda: No, no, I said according to their convenience.

Girirāja: Okay, what I would say is that let them meet you first of all . . .

Prabhupāda: Hmm, yes.

Girirāja: . . . at about one o'clock.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Girirāja: Then, say, after twenty minutes or so, you can be free. And then we will, you know, give them prasādam . . .

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Girirāja: . . . and show movie and . . .

Prabhupāda: Make that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What date?

Girirāja: Day after tomorrow.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good.

Prabhupāda: I am sitting here whole day and night, so they will come according . . . they are busy men. They must have program according to their convenience.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, this is the checks. The amount remaining in the bank is 371 rupees and 19 paisa. Should I make out the check?

Prabhupāda: Why check? There is standing . . . (indistinct) . . . check, they will come.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, the reason why we need the check is that this letter is only signed by Your Divine Grace, but this check is signed by the joint signers, Śyāmasundara and . . .

Prabhupāda: Then inquire. What is the . . .?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think one check should be written out for those . . .

Prabhupāda: Pay to yourself. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, pay to self.

Prabhupāda: Pay to your . . . no.

Girirāja: Self.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Pay to self," yeah. Should I make the check out?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Girirāja: At Mr. Rajda's office the ex-mayor was there. One of the ex-mayors of Bombay was there. He was the chief guest here on Vyāsa-pūjā day two years ago. So he had recently visited our New York center, and he liked it very much, New York and Washington, D.C.

Prabhupāda: He's impressed.

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: He told Mr. Rajda? He informed Mr. Rajda?

Girirāja: Um, not . . . no, he didn't, not when I was there. But I am sure they had talked. I mean, people are very aware of our movement, at least superficially, that we are building something, we're doing some . . . one weekly newspaper editor . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think I'm going to write . . . if you leave me a tiny bit of room, I'll write "For International Society for Krishna Consciousness Building Fund" just above.

Prabhupāda: Write there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Girirāja: He's asked us to have a column in his newspaper every week for questions or answers, so that the readers can send their questions and then we will give our answer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He will pay?

Girirāja: He wants to make a regular weekly feature. It's called The Bombay Times.

Prabhupāda: Newly started?

Girirāja: I don't know how old it is, but now they're making a big push to make it popular.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. (pause) At least one day or two day in a week important men may come here, live here. You hold meeting in that auditorium.

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And . . . (indistinct) . . . about real knowledge.

Girirāja: And then Mr. Bajaj . . . Mr. Bajaj was on the same plane going to Poona.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Girirāja: So he wants to arrange another meeting of the Gītā Conference. So he's thinking of either Kurukṣetra or Vṛndāvana. So I suggested that they should hold it at our Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. So he's seriously thinking of it. But he's not very much intelligent. I mean, he's not able to understand the Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: They are influenced by these rascals, Vinoba Bhave and company.

Girirāja: Actually he has no idea what the Bhagavad-gītā says.

Prabhupāda: What he has done?

Girirāja: Who? Bajaj? Or Vinoba Bhave?

Prabhupāda: No, this Vinoba Bhave.

Girirāja: None of them has done anything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Training up some women.

Prabhupāda: No, he's still present. Dozens of women, they are residing somewhere.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Training up women for walking around India. Foot race.

Girirāja: In Poona we met one man who was really glorifying you like anything. His name is Dilip Kumar Roy.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Girirāja: He was a famous singer, and his father was also . . . so now he has become something like a guru. And he has a temple in Poona called the Hare Krishna Temple. And the main Deity is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. Of course, he's bogus, more or less, but he . . . one thing is he was just praising you for hours almost, in front of all of his disciples.

Prabhupāda: How old is he? As old as I am?

Girirāja: He is seventy-five. He was saying that . . . he's written some sentimental books about Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's flute and this and that. But anyway, he was just saying that he couldn't imagine how you could do so much. You know, he said, unless you were empowered by God, you could not have done this. He said with great difficulty he had published one book in America, and you'd published so many big books, sales, and making devotees and establishing centers. He wasn't feeling well, but he said that he would really like to come here and offer . . .

Prabhupāda: Bombay?

Girirāja: . . . Prabhupāda his obeisances.

Prabhupāda: Why not invite them? And immediately you should have invited him.

Girirāja: No, yes, I did.

Prabhupāda: So he can stay there. We have a good place.

Girirāja: He sent . . . I didn't bring them with me. He sent two of his books with a message, and he said that he wanted your blessings.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When you give them to me, we can write him a letter inviting him to come, thanking him for the books. Śrīla Prabhupāda, this telegram arrived. Remember that letter from Mahāṁśa requesting 75,000 rupees for his farming? So we've replied him. The letter's going to be given to you today for signing that, "First of all agree to the principle of the loan, then I'll give you . . ." So a telegram arrived: "Please expedite letter dated 9/4/77."

Prabhupāda: So do it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So still we should send him that letter first of all. I think . . . I mean, there has to be a principle of loan. Otherwise . . . apart from that, there wasn't any . . . (break) (end)