770726 - Conversation - Vrndavana

Conversations by Date, 1977

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

770726R1-VRNDAVAN - July 26, 1977 - 44:12 Minutes

(Conversation Gaurasundara & Dr. Kapoor)

Gaurasundara: . . . just wanted to come and see you for a while.

Prabhupāda: Why not stay here for some time? (pause) Where is Govinda dāsī?

Gaurasundara: She's in Hawaii.

Prabhupāda: So what are your activities now?

Gaurasundara: In Hawaii we have Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Deities, so having bathing, Deity worship and reading your books twice a day.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Gaurasundara: Feast program.

Prabhupāda: May Kṛṣṇa help you. How many inmates are there?

Gaurasundara: Right now there's about one dozen people in the farm, and on Sundays maybe forty, fifty people coming for the feast.

Prabhupāda: Very good. You are my old disciple. So I'll be very pleased if you keep the principles—it doesn't matter wherever you live—and spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness wherever you feel happy, and do not forget the real business. She is helping you?

Gaurasundara: Yes, very much. She's doing all the pūjārī work and taking care of Deities.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Gaurasundara: Pūjārī. Making clothes.

Prabhupāda: How big the Deities are?

Gaurasundara: Right now we have small brass Deities. But this time I'd like to get marble, marble Deities to bring back.

Prabhupāda: From Jaipur. You are going to Jaipur? No.

Gaurasundara: Yes. I think if I can take a few days I'll go and order Deities.

Prabhupāda: How big?

Gaurasundara: I would like to be able to carry Them back on the airplane. I don't know how big I can carry Them, but I'll see.

Prabhupāda: I think there is no need of changing Deity.

Gaurasundara: Leave small?

Prabhupāda: Huh? You have got?

Gaurasundara: Small.

Prabhupāda: Small.

Gaurasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Because you are maintaining the temple as private. So make nice clothes, decorations.

Gaurasundara: Yes, we are doing. We have . . .

Prabhupāda: High place. There is no need of big . . . (indistinct) . . . Deity is small Kṛṣṇa or big Kṛṣṇa, the same thing. When Kṛṣṇa was child on the lap of His mother, the same Kṛṣṇa killed Pūtanā. And when He was killing other demons in His young age, the same. Avyaya. He does not change. Acyuta. These are the names of Kṛṣṇa, you'll . . . so it does not make any difference. So you have got small Deity. Very nicely . . . so you can bathe Them nicely, decorate Them nicely, give Them . . . and big Deity, it will be difficult to handle. Better keep this Deity and increase devotional. That will be . . . more time devoted for taking class, for cleansing the . . . about Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam consider. That is main business.

arcāyām eva haraye

pūjāṁ yaḥ śraddhayehate

na tad-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu

sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ

(SB 11.2.47)

If you simply worship the Deity in a gorgeous way but do not preach, see to the interest of devotees and other common men, then you'll remain in the prākṛta state, material stage. You should go further: see the interest of ordinary people, how they are understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tad-bhakteṣu. To give worship to the guru and honor them. Simply to worship Deity is material platform. Gṛhasthas, we want, this preaching. And not like ordinary. Big Deity worship . . . (indistinct) . . . Kṛṣṇa will help by taking class, teaching . . . (indistinct) . . . and practise what we preach. Purified program. Govinda dāsī is not willing to live with you?

Gaurasundara: No. I think she's . . . I heard, heard that she's married again. But anyway, she has not been in touch with me.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Never mind. These are all material things. It should be more than that. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness means forgetting material things, coming to Kṛṣṇa. Now forget your past misdeed and take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness gradually. Deity worship is the first work, step. How many dresses you have prepared for the Deity? What is the name of?

Woman devotee: They each have twenty-two.

Gaurasundara: Twenty-two for Rādhā, twenty-two for Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Very good. Ornaments?

Gaurasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You can take supply from . . .

Gaurasundara: Yes, we are getting more things here.

Prabhupāda: From where?

Gaurasundara: In Loi Bazaar.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Gaurasundara: Loi Bazaar.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Loi Bazaar.

Prabhupāda: No, you can take from . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dhanañjaya.

Prabhupāda: He has got also Deity . . . all ornament. Anyway, in Hawaii where you are living, that is quite comfortable. Eh?

Gaurasundara: It's in the country.

Prabhupāda: Seaside?

Gaurasundara: A few miles up on the side of the mountain. About one thousand feet elevation.

Prabhupāda: All the inmates, they are following rules and regu . . .

Gaurasundara: Oh, yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Gaurasundara: One other boy came with me.

Prabhupāda: He has come here?

Gaurasundara: He has come, yes. Very good boy. They're all very . . .

Prabhupāda: No intoxication?

Gaurasundara: No, no intoxication.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Be intoxicated with Kṛṣṇa. (aside) So you have given them a room?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Guesthouse.

Prabhupāda: Any other business? Eh?

Bhakti-caru: Foler ros kheyechilen? . . . (indistinct) . . . (Did you take fruit juice? . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Prabhupāda: You came here before.

Gaurasundara: Today?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Before.

Gaurasundara: Yes. Last November.

Prabhupāda: How you like this temple?

Gaurasundara: Very nice. Beautiful. And that school is very nice, gurukula.

Prabhupāda: We require a large amount of money. If possible, try to contribute. What is your source of income?

Gaurasundara: Not so much income. Some donations, and we have a farm. We're selling produce.

Prabhupāda: If you can, try to. Cows you have?

Gaurasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: What is the news of our Hawaii?

Gaurasundara: I've brought some pictures from the Ratha-yātrā. Have you seen any?

Prabhupāda: No.

Gaurasundara: Ratha-yātrā.

Devotee: . . . (indistinct)

Gaurasundara: Yes. In Honolulu. This is by the ocean. This is near the ocean.

Prabhupāda: President, what is the name?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Er, Śrutakīrti.

Prabhupāda: He is doing nicely? He has . . .

Gaurasundara: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Only one car?

Gaurasundara: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: So you also joined?

Gaurasundara: No, I was leaving to come here at that time, but the pictures were given to me to show you. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . children?

Gaurasundara: Yes. It's very nice. There are very many people taking part.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Quite a few cities. We figured that ten different Ratha-yātrā festivals were held this year all around the world.

Prabhupāda: So it was taken from our temple to seaside?

Gaurasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: A long distance.

Gaurasundara: Yes. All through Waikiki. Very many people are in Waikiki, the tourists and regulars.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is Gurukṛpā Mahārāja there?

Gaurasundara: I didn't see him.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, Ratha-yātrā has been performed. This is good news. Thank you. (break) Each standing order is for eight hundred rupees, seventeen books. So four thousand. So how much it become?

Dr. Kapoor: These boys are doing very good work. How much enthusiasm they are putting in.

Prabhupāda: There is two, three groups working in the Communist country. So we are getting very encouraging report, especially for Bhāgavatam and Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So what is the price of four thousand sets at eight hundred rupees?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think it's about thirty-two lakhs rupees, four thousand six hundred . . .

Prabhupāda: So beyond imagination. (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, thirty-two lakhs.

Prabhupāda: We printed Caitanya-caritāmṛta, twenty thousand copies. Out of that, five thousand copies are already sold, and we have collected at least forty lakhs of rupees. And India also we are getting orders even from Bangladesh, Dacca, Dacca University. So by Prabhupāda's āśīrvāda things are going very encouraging. What we have sold in the last one week? The last report?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The last report—this is simply from the American and Western European countries—it was reported in one week, June 27th to July 3rd, they sold 51,000 hardcover books, then 30,000 medium size books, 20,000 small books and 140,000 magazines, in one week.

Dr. Kapoor: Staggering figures.

Prabhupāda: Fifty-one thousand, five dollars each. How it . . .? What is the . . .?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's about a quarter of a million dollars. One-fourth of a million dollars. Two hundred fifty thousand dollars.

Prabhupāda: Two hundred fifty thousand dollars. And if you exchange in rupee?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In rupee? About twenty lakhs, more than twenty lakhs.

Prabhupāda: In one week. So unimaginable.

Dr. Kapoor: I don't think any other publisher . . .

Prabhupāda: No, we are the first publisher in the world. That is already recognized.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At that recent library convention in the United States, four hundred publishers in America participated, every major publisher. And our booth was awarded the first place amongst all of the publishers' booths.

Dr. Kapoor: Where? In the quality of printing or in the amount of sales?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, generally they gave it based on different factors. The quality of the printing, the sales, and the booth appearance, presentation.

Dr. Kapoor: This is solid work.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Now we are going to hold Bhaktivedanta Institute scientific meeting. What is that? Where is that paper? Bombay. Scientifically presenting, among the scientists.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's called "The First International Scientific Conference on 'Life Comes From Life,' sponsored by the Bhaktivedanta Institute, Founder-Ācārya His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda." Should I read this?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Current scientific theory holds that life is a product of molecular interaction." (break)

Dr. Kapoor: I think they should attack the very basic concept of science.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Dr. Kapoor: The very basic concept of science should be attacked, the molecules and the atoms. They say life comes out of molecules. But what if . . . according to modern science, are molecules themselves? You see, before . . . (break) . . . molecules disappear. As a matter of fact, particle disappears, you see. What remains . . .

Prabhupāda: Oh, they knew . . . they have written . . . that they have denied. It is not chemical-physical.

Dr. Kapoor: The scientists themselves admit that what remains in the last analysis is something akin to consciousness, and not what we call matter or particle. Even supposing life comes out of molecules . . .

Prabhupāda: So he has met many scientists.

Dr. Kapoor: It is a consciousness, you see. The life after all comes from life. There should be great attack.

Prabhupāda: Ye sab ho raha hai, lekin Bhagawan ki ichha. (All these things are happening, but let's see what Lord's will is.) We are inviting.

Dr. Kapoor: Such enthusiasm because you are giving them transcendental injections.

Prabhupāda: This boy was stubborn atheist.

Dr. Kapoor: Svarūpa Dāmodara.

Prabhupāda: And he was walking with me on the seaside.

Dr. Kapoor: Ha.

Prabhupāda: And I was chastising, kicking him and refuting. (laughs) Now he has organized this Bhaktivedanta Institute.

Dr. Kapoor: He came to see me last time in connection with some journal, some new journal that he was going to bring out. What about that journal now?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sa-vijñānam.

Prabhupāda: Sa-vijñānam.

Dr. Kapoor: Sa-vijñānam.

Prabhupāda: Jñānaṁ te paramaṁ guhyam, sa-vijñānam. What is the . . .?

Dr. Kapoor: Sa-vijñānam. Sa-vijñāna means . . .?

Prabhupāda: "With vijñāna." Sa means "with."

Dr. Kapoor: Why not vijñāna alone?

Prabhupāda: Vijñāna is imperfect. Sa-vijñānam. Jñānam me . . .

Dr. Kapoor: So you want to distinguish it from ordinary science.

Prabhupāda: Jñānaṁ te paramaṁ guhyam. Sa-vijñānam. This word is there. Paramaṁ guhyam. Paramaṁ guhyaṁ sa-vijñānam. Ye sab in log ka kripa se ho rahi hai. To usme aap bhu ayiega. (By the mercy of these people, all these things are happening. So you also please visit there.)

Dr. Kapoor: Ha? (What?)

Prabhupāda: Ohi bombai me jo ye hone wala hai. (In Bombay, where this is going to happen.)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Probably it will be held October 28th, around that time.

Dr. Kapoor: Oh.

Prabhupāda: So they wanted to hold this conference here, and later on, we decided Bombay to bahut bhari sansthan. To udhar hone se bahut sara scientist ake milega . . . (Bombay is a big city. By arranging the conference there, many scientists will come to meet us.) Let them decide.

Dr. Kapoor: (indistinct) . . . that is a more suitable place for this kind of . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bombay.

Prabhupāda: Many . . . he has met with big, big institute, Bose Institute, head of the, and they are appreciating, "Yes, please go on describing."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They've invited him for speaking. They've invited the Bhaktivedanta Institute speakers now in many universities, wherever he went, Delhi . . .

Prabhupāda: Caitanyera dayāra kathā karaha vicāra. To vichar kaun karega? Ye sab vichar karega. (So who will contemplate? All these people will do that contemplation?) Vicāra karile citte pābe . . . Vicāra . . . Vichar yadi kiske paas diya jaye? (If some verdict is to be given, whom should it be referred to?) No sentimentalist. "Come on, scientist." Caitanyera dayāra kathā karaha vicāra. Vicāra karile citte pābe . . . vichar kaun karega? (who will evaluate and give a verdict?) High-court judges. Ye sab prayas kiya jata, ab Bhagwan ki ichha. (All these endeavors are being taken up, now it's God's will.) But so far, it is encouraging. Hum log darnewala nahi hai. Aao, kitna bara scientist hai, vichar karo. (We are not going to be afraid to face them. Come on, however big a scientist you may be, think over it logically.)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now you're going to also get that planetarium in Washington.

Prabhupāda: Hmm? Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's very important.

Dr. Kapoor: What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One of our devotees, Ambarīṣa dāsa, his name is. He's very wealthy person.

Prabhupāda: He is grandson of Ford, great-grandson.

Dr. Kapoor: Yes, I was told. He came here once, I'm told.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So he offered everything he has to Prabhupāda. So Śrīla Prabhupāda has requested him to build a large building and to put in a Vedic planetarium in Washington, D.C. capital of the United States, right near the White House, with the Vedic planetary system according to the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Fifth Canto. So he has agreed to do this, and now they are choosing the property where they will develop this program right in the heart of Washington, D.C. So it will be very good. And also the dolls will be . . . doll exhibit.

Prabhupāda: How they are making dolls, show him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: How nice dolls.

Dr. Kapoor: Oh.

Prabhupāda: I brought them here and kept them in Māyāpur.

Dr. Kapoor: Ācchā, and they got the training there.

Prabhupāda: And they have learned now. Now they are making better dolls than the Krishnanagar potters. They are very intelligent.

Dr. Kapoor: Very intelligent.

Prabhupāda: The intelligence was not properly used. Now they have got chance. Bhāgavata it is said, sarasvatī jñāna-khale yathā satī (SB 10.2.19). This knowledge, why it should be locked up amongst the jñāna-khala? In India this knowledge is available, and they should be packed up amongst themselves? Now it is the time to distribute.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These ones I'm showing now, they will be in a temple which has just been built in Fiji. It's going to be opened in August, and this will be one altar. These dolls are made by our own devotees. These are Deities, mūrtis, for installation.

Dr. Kapoor: Good doll. Very lifelike, huh? I first thought this was your photo.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just see how they've made these mūrtis. Then the, er . . .

Prabhupāda: Oh, they have made a statue—I am writing books like this, moving.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then the other . . . there'll be . . . central altar is Kṛṣṇa-Kāliya.

Dr. Kapoor: (laughing) Oh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These are made from a special material for making Deities. (break)

Prabhupāda: Give him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I mean, we won't have a copy of them. If you don't mind, if it's all right with you.

Prabhupāda: All right, wait.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll wait. I'll order a copy. 'Cause these are only four pictures practically I have to show people.

Dr. Kapoor: That's all right. Later on. (break)

Prabhupāda: Agar hum nahi bhi rahenge, yeh log chala dega. (Even if I am not there, these people will be able to run the show.)

Dr. Kapoor: Baat ye hai ki, nahi chalane . . . (indistinct) . . . in logo ka jo dosh hai, missionary . . . (indistinct) . . . (But the thing is that, about not running . . . (indistinct) . . . the problem with these people are, missionary . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Prabhupāda: Prāṇa āche yāṅra, sei hetu pracāra.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, will you be taking your massage this evening?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's about 8:30 now. Maybe we should . . . we're about an hour behind. That report was so ecstatic that we forgot the times. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . without any venue. That is something. "And what is this? This is . . . (indistinct) . . .?" Sarcastically, humorously . . . why people have become so rascal?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not better than any cockroach.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Less than a cockroach.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The cockroach is born in the toilet.

Prabhupāda: That is it. And when it has got some wings, it flies.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It doesn't have to pay any thousand pounds sterling.

Prabhupāda: Or meditate. It is humorously liked. Handpaper, it was published by the Times. (break) . . . for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You've never demanded any money for it.

Prabhupāda: No. And all others, "Bring money." And still, they're ludicrous. And here big, big scholars, professors, universities, they are welcoming our books.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nobody's accepting them, no intelligent people. (end)