771106 - Conversation A - Vrndavana

Conversations by Date, 1977

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

771106R1-VRNDAVAN - November 06, 1977 - 36:46 Minutes

Prabhupāda: . . . depend on you. For me, wherever I am kept, I shall remain. This is the position.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Wherever you are kept?

Prabhupāda: Wherever you kept, keep, I shall remain. The institution depends on the GBC.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I think that the time that you always were looking forward to—of the GBC managing things—has come, and that if you can survive, then you can simply be free to translate . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . chant.

Prabhupāda: If I am sane, then I'll do. But in this condition . . . ah, ha . . . hmm. What is to be done now?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is to be done now? In regard to that Trust?

Prabhupāda: No, Trust or whatever. I have freed myself from everything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In regard to what were you asking?

Prabhupāda: In this condition.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, what we have to do is carry on with this medicine, medical treatment, and let the kavirāja come. Then, when he comes from Calcutta, he'll review everything that's happened and he'll see what your condition is like. And if he feels that the liver and kidney have been cleared up a little bit, then he'll begin to give medicine for giving you strength. And we will make him stay here until you get sufficient strength. And if you do get sufficient strength, which means his medicine is working, then he can take you to Māyāpur. And after some days, if he gives you medicine for strength and you don't get any strength, then there's no reason to leave Vṛndāvana. He may go back, but we will stay here. I think that should be our course of action. We certainly . . . I've looked just now with Upendra, and pretty much, you've increased by about double what you drink, and you've increased by about double the amount of urine. So . . . but that's not going to give you strength very much. And the kavirāja has also said that he's not giving any medicine for giving strength at this time. Mostly he's giving medicine which should help the kidney and liver. I can't see inside your body to know if your kidney and liver are better. That he has to say. And if he says that it is getting better, then he can give the medicine for giving strength. And that's something that we can notice. Once he gives the medicine for strength, we'll be able to see if you're actually getting strength. After five or six days, if you're not getting any strength, then we'll know that the medicine is not effective. If it is effective, then we can go with him. You'll have more strength and we can go to Māyāpur. He can take us there and we'll carry on. And if for some reason it's not effective, then we have to trust simply in kṛṣṇa-nāma. That we're doing anyway, but that's . . . we'll have to do exclusively at that point.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Get on . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Does that sound right, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: There is no alternative.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. There's no alternative. There's no question of going to any more kavirājas. This is the last one. He's the best we've found, and if his medicine doesn't work, then let us simply depend on Kṛṣṇa.

Bhavānanda: That was fifty and clear, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Fifty and clear.

Prabhupāda: Bhavānanda, you are not feeling well?

Bhavānanda: No, now I'm feeling better, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're all praying to take some disease from you. We're all praying to take over your disease onto us.

Prabhupāda: That is not desirable.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not desirable?

Prabhupāda: (laughs) If you all become diseased . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but you single-handedly can spread this movement better than all of us together.

Prabhupāda: That is the problem. You are all become stationed to me. Who will work?

Jayādvaita: At least this disease of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is very infectious. Everyone catches it from you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They can't find any medicine to stop it. It just keeps going on more and more.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They call it epidemic. (break) I had a dream last night that you were eating all kinds of nice fruits.

Prabhupāda: What is that sound?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's one of the brahmacārīs shaking out the dust in the rugs. In my office we have some rugs, so he takes them outside and shakes them. He's a nice brahmacārī. Comes from . . . young boy from the gurukula, from Mexico. Is it time to go on, Śrīla Prabhupāda? (break) . . . today. So I would meet him last night, and if he was to come this evening I wouldn't think that there would be any harm, that he could come this evening. I think it's not bad in that it sort of sometimes has an effect to encourage the patient if the doctor or kavirāja comes. You know, it's encouraging. It's reassuring. So I think it's nice that he comes. There should be someone with a little bit of knowledge who we can consult each day. He may not be as expert as the Calcutta kavirāja. Still, he is more expert than we are. And he was appointed by the Calcutta kavirāja to come and check up on you and see how you are doing, see if there were any side effects. The real question is that your kidney and liver should be getting better. There's no doubt that you're getting weaker now. That I can see. I've never seen you this weak. But according to the . . .

Prabhupāda: Very weak.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very weak, yeah.

Prabhupāda: I sit up, oh, everything . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Finished. No, I could see that when you were sitting up, everything was becoming dislocated, everything. You can't sit up very much, neither you should sit up, Śrīla Prabhupāda, very much. But I would recommend you to sit up when you have to drink only. This bathing we could do at other times. This drinking . . . unless you sit up, you won't drink. I've seen that. You don't drink hardly anything. Unless you're willing to let us . . . see, the trouble is that when you lay down and drink, you're used to drinking just a little bit. So if you'll allow us to give you the same amount that you drink when you sit up, then there's no problem.

Prabhupāda: How you can?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How much?

Prabhupāda: How you can?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, just like when you sit up . . . it's naturally, when someone sits up, it's easier to drink. Laying down, it's more difficult. But still, you require the nourishment. You shouldn't decrease your drinking because you can't sit up. It just means you have to be willing to drink the same amount, but drink it while you're laying down.

Bhavānanda: Which will take some longer time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it's a little more difficult. But it's not that you can't drink, it's just that it takes longer. So if that's all right with you, then we won't even request you to sit up when it's time to give you something to drink. Would that be all right? Okay.

Bhakti-caru: Can I give you some barley milk, Śrīla Prabhupāda, now?

Prabhupāda: Now acceptable.

Bhakti-caru: Śrīla Prabhupāda? (Prabhupāda drinks)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. How many cc's is that, Bhakti-caru?

Bhakti-caru: It's about fifty . . . forty.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Forty. So give Prabhupāda two more of those. Actually, usually you drink about 200 cc's of barley milk, and you've just drank about 50.

Bhakti-caru: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No more.

Bhavānanda: You can wait a few minutes, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and then, when you're feeling able to, you can take a little more. There's no rushing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's not going to . . . Śrīla Prabhupāda, what is the trouble to take more now? It's a botheration? But that's . . . I mean, it's required that you . . . I mean, if you don't . . . at least you should take the same amount you were taking when you were sitting up.

Prabhupāda: I cannot.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's difficult. This means you will stop practically getting any nourishment at all now. So then we should call the Calcutta kavirāja. Prabhupāda's not being able to maintain his program. So we'll call the kavirāja from Calcutta, Śrīla Prabhupāda, because now you are not able to keep to the program which he fixed up. And this other kavirāja, he can't do anything this difficult. Usually by this time you've drank about 400 cc's of liquid or more. Today you haven't even drank 100 cc's yet. So in this way you will go back to about two or three weeks ago, when you were planning to depart. So that's a little premature, because we agreed that we will first go through with this program which the kavirāja has given. So now it seems like it's too difficult to do that, so we should call him so that he can . . .

Prabhupāda: What is the use of calling him?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the use of what?

Bhavānanda: Calling him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The use of calling is that he . . . according to him . . . this is what I understood. He was not giving . . . the main problem you're feeling is that you have no strength. This is the sum and substance. There's no strength.

Prabhupāda: So how he can give strength?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How can he give strength? Just like makara-dhvaja is for giving strength.

Prabhupāda: Makara-dhvaja was not giving strength.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that was not makara-dhvaja. That kavirāja said that was not makara-dhvaja.

Bhavānanda: And he also said that in your condition now you can't take makara-dhvaja.

Prabhupāda: I cannot take anything. I feel comfort only lying down.

Bhakti-caru: You can take something lying down, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Just a little . . .

Prabhupāda: That I have taken.

Bhakti-caru: Yes. Then should we give you some more after half an hour? Then you have to take it more frequently then.

Bhavānanda: (whispering) But he won't do that.

Prabhupāda: That is not possible. (pause) This is comfortable.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but this is not the road to recovery.

Prabhupāda: But what can I do?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we have to do something. We have to . . .

Prabhupāda: Then that means . . . that means force me and give me trouble.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that we won't do. But I'm suggesting that if we call the kavirāja in Calcutta, he can suggest some medicine which will give you strength. I mean, he has not given you any medicines which he claims will give you strength yet. At least we should give him an opportunity.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think it's a good idea to call kavirāja from Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Bhavānanda: We're all in agreement that the kavirāja should be called from Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: What he'll do?

Bhavānanda: Well, that's up to him to decide what to do. We don't know what he will do, but he has medicines which can give you strength. He wanted to wait some time before administering them. But now what would be the loss if he administered them to you now? If they're going to work five days from now, they'll work now. Let us try. There's no loss. And if you get strength, then all gain. The kavirāja said that the one great quality that you have in this sickness is your incredible willpower. If you lose your willpower, desire to remain here, then nothing will work. But he said that if you continue with this strong desire to remain, then it will be easy.

Prabhupāda: That strong desire has now disappeared.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? One thing is that this kavirāja's medicine has never had any adverse effects. Everybody else's medicine has had some adverse effects except for his. And in fact, the thing which he said his medicine would do has been done. He said that his medicine would cause you to pass more urine, and that actually has happened. He did not say that the medicine he gave you would make you stronger at this time. So nothing has gone wrong by taking his medicine, and in fact, what he said would happen has happened. He said that after giving that, he would begin to give medicine for giving strength. So what is the harm if we call him and let him give the medicine which he says will give you strength? If it gives you strength, then welcome. And if it doesn't give you strength, then we're not any worse off than we are now. You are feeling hopeless, therefore it doesn't matter to you. But as we are hopeful still, therefore it matters very much to us. He is our last hope. We have to admit, if his medicine does not work, then we simply have to depend solely on Kṛṣṇa.

Jayādvaita: Also, this kavirāja, he wants to render you some service. It's his desire that he be allowed to render some service to Your Divine Grace. He wants that opportunity.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And he requested us that if such a time as this which now is happening were to come, we should immediately call him, that he would drop everything and come. So why should we not give him that chance to come, if we are still hopeful?

Prabhupāda: You can. But I am . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We know that you are hopeless, Śrīla Prabhupāda, but as your disciples, it is our duty to remain hopeful, at least to the point where we should try this last kavirāja. We also accept that if this kavirāja is not successful, then finish with all kavirājas and medicines. (pause) Would you like to have some kīrtana, Śrīla Prabhupāda? (break) The kavirāja is here now. Kavirājī is here.

Prabhupāda: How? The young kavirāja, oh.

Kavirāja's assistant: Thodi matra me urine ki kami hai. Kal to sujan tha. (There is little reduction of urine quantity. Yesterday there was swelling.)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhakti-caru and Śatadhanya have gone to Mathurā, Śrīla Prabhupāda, to call the Shastrijī from Calcutta.

Kaviraja: Kaviraj aa rahe hain? (Is the physician coming?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nahi abhi process me hain. (No he is still in the process.) What did he say, Svarūpa Dāmodara?

Prabhupada: Baithiye. (Sit down.)

Kaviraja: Haat dikhaiye, ye dahina haat . . . (Show me your hand, left hand . . .)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What did he say?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He said that it's a little increased, the heartbeat. There's a little increase in the pulse.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The pulse has increased? That's good. Not decreased. It is stronger or weaker?

Kavirāja's assistant: Dava di? Aaj subah di? (Did you give the medicine? Did you give it this morning?)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Did they give medicine today?

Upendra: I don't think so. I don't know.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Give him what?

Upendra: Did we give him medicine today so far?

Bhavānanda: Yes.

Kavirāja's assistant: . . . (indistinct Hindi)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Which medicine?

Upendra: I don't know. Bhakti-caru never writes which one it is.

Bhavānanda: That one that you boil up.

Upendra: Oh. What's it say? It's the one you boil, cook for some time. Maybe he knows . . . it's the one you cook for some time.

Bhavānanda: Where is the prescription?

Kavirāja's assistant: . . . ye diya? (. . . did you give this?) (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . cannot drink very much liquid. And if he doesn't drink proper amount of liquid, then what will happen?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: . . . Prabhupad bahut kamjor hain . . . (. . . Prabhupāda is very weak . . .)

Kavirāja's assistant: . . . wo kal jo tatti hui hai usse kuch kamjori hai . . . beech me doosra number kam kar diya tha . . . (. . . yesterday he passed stool so he is feeling a little weak . . . in the middle we had reduced the number 2 medicine . . .)

Svarupa Damodara: Accha kam dena hai? (Okay we have to give less?)

Kaviraja: Nahi, wohi dena hai continue. Ye jo hai na medicine wo stool ko bhi kum karega. Ye jo . . . ye theek hai . . . wo blood ko thick karega. (No you have to give the same dosage. This medicine will reduce the quantity of stool. This . . . this is alright . . . that will thicken the blood.) First one and second one strength milne ki koshish hai. (The first and second one will try to give him some strength . . .) Ye medicine de chuke hain. (This medicine I have given.)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He's saying that among those medicine, first one or second one has some ingredients that give some little strength.

Kavirāja's assistant: Continue, inko rokna nahi. Neend swabhavik aayee, kuch pareshani hui raat ko? Neend nahi ayi? (Continue, do not stop these medicines. You got sleep naturally, did you have any trouble at night.? Did not sleep well?)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He's asking whether Prabhupāda was asleep last night. Neend kum hui ratri. Ratri nau baje se 2 baje sabere mein accha neend aaya. (He slept very little at night. In the night from 9pm to 2am early in the morning he slept well.) Actually, Prabhupāda rested very well from nine to two o'clock last night.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He did?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The problem is weakness.

Kavirāja's assistant: . . . kal ke . . . pick up kar lenge. (. . . tomorrow is . . . we will pick up.)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The main problem hai kamzori. (The main problem is weakness.)

Kaviraja: Santara ka juice rakh liya? (Have you made the orange juice?)

Svarupa Damodara: Juice? Wohi Pomegranate juice subah me bahut kaum. Juice? (That pomegranate juice in the morning, much less.)

Prabhupāda: Kuch khane ki iccha nahi. (I have no desire to eat anything.)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Prabhupāda said, "No appetite."

Kavirāja's assistant: Pet me dard to nahi tha kal se? Nahi hua? (Since yesterday you did not get stomach pain?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyway, we called the kavirāja to come.

Kavirāja's assistant: Accha hawa paas hoti hai kya? (Okay you can pass gas easily?)

Prabhupāda: Haan thoda. (Yes a little.)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He's asking whether Prabhupāda passes air.

Upendra: Does he?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He said that, "Little, little," Prabhupāda says. (end)