660824 - Lecture BG 05.03-7 - New York

Lectures by Date, 1966

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

660824BG.NY - August 24, 1966

Prabhupāda: (kīrtana) (prema-dhvani) Gaura-Premanandi. Hari Haribol. Thank you very much . . . (break)

jñeyaḥ sa nitya-sannyāsī

yo na dveṣṭi na kāṅkṣati

nirdvandvo hi mahā-bāho

sukhaṁ bandhāt pramucyate

(BG 5.3)

Jñeyeḥ, "Just understand," sa. Sa means he. Who? Nitya-sannyāsī: "That person is always in renounced order, not by dress, but by action. Always in renounced order," yo na dveṣṭi na kāṅkṣati, "that person who does not hate, neither desires." Nitya-sannyāsī. The renounced order means that I renounce my material propensities. That is called renunciation. A living entity is living. He has got his different propensities. That is his natural position. If I say that "You don't desire," no, that is not possible. I cannot desire, I don't desire . . . if I am desireless, then I am dead. What is my life? Desire . . . somebody says that "You become desireless." That is an impossible, sir. Desireless means don't desire materially. That is desireless.

So a person who has renounced everything for service of the Lord, sannyāsī. Sannyāsī means sat-nyāsī. Sat means the supreme eternal, and nyāsī means renounced. So sannyāsī . . . he is a sannyāsī who has renounced everything for the sake of the Lord. He's called sannyāsī. And he has no hatred for anything, because in his vision everything is meant for the service of the Lord. So therefore he cannot hate anything.

Sometimes it is advertised that "Such-and-such saint, he does not touch money. He does not touch money. When money is offered to him, his hand becomes turned." But a Bhagavad-gītā does not say that. Bhagavad-gītā does not say that "Because money is offered to you, therefore you shall turn your hand." Yes. Because a devotee's life is dedicated to the Supreme, so he also thinks that "This money can be utilized for the service of the Lord."

Just like there are many instances in India. In our line of disciplic succession, ācārya, there was one Rūpa Gosvāmī. Rūpa Gosvāmī, he was formerly the minister of a very big estate. Then he renounced his family life and joined Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and became a mendicant. Now, of course, nowadays people are not so much fond of mendicant. But formerly, any householder, they would go to some sage, some saintly person, and offer some service, "Sir, what can I serve for you?" Oh, that was the system.

So one big merchant—he belonged to Sindhi, Sindh Province, which is now in Pakistan—he approached Rūpa Gosvāmī and offered that "Swāmījī, I want to make some service. Please give me direction. How can I serve you?" So he was a very big man. So Rūpa Gosvāmī asked him that "Yes, if you have got money, then engage it in the service of Kṛṣṇa according to your position." So he built a very nice temple. That temple . . . if you go sometimes to India, that is a very remarkable temple.

So in this way, money is not bad. Ev . . . nothing is bad. Anything created by God, nothing is bad. But if it is employed in the service of the Lord. Otherwise, it is bad. So for a sannyāsī who has dedicated his life for the service of the Lord, he, he does not hate anything. He can . . . he knows the art how to employ anything in the service of the Lord. Therefore he does not hate anything. Na dveṣṭi.

And na kāṅkṣati. Na kāṅkṣati means he does not desire any money for his personal account. That is the significance. If you offer to a devotee who has renounced his life for the service of the Lord millions of dollars, he can engage. He knows the art how to engage millions of dollars in the service of the Lord, but not a farthing for his own comfort. Not a farthing for his own comfort. Na kāṅkṣati. Na dveṣṭi na kāṅkṣati. He does not hate money. Because he knows that money is a strength. By this strength, the service of the Lord can be advanced in so many ways.

So that Rūpa Gosvāmī made two verses for our guidance. For our guidance he made two verses, very nice verses.

anāsaktasya viṣayān

yathārham upayuñjataḥ

nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe

yuktaṁ vairāgyam ucyate

(Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.255)

He says that viṣaya . . . viṣaya means enjoyable things. In the material world, what we want to enjoy, that is called viṣaya. So anāsaktasya viṣayān. So far we have got this body, we have to accept not for sense gratification, but for maintenance. So anāsaktasya, without being attached, we may accept the necessities of our bodily requirements, yathārham, as far as possible, as much as I want for maintaining the body and soul together. In this way, if we live. But everything dedicated to the Supreme Lord, that is the highest standard of renounced.

And another, other side he explains that, that the things . . . phalgu-vairāgyaṁ kathyate. Nirbandhaḥ. The idea is . . . I exactly forgot the verse, but it is stated like this, that a person who is trying to renounce this world without knowing that everything can be engaged in the service of the Lord, and he's renouncing, he is . . . his renunciation is not first grade. His renunciation is not first grade. Why?

Now, what do you mean by renunciation? Suppose I am in the renounced order of life. What I have renounced? Oh, you are . . . you have got clothing; I have got also clothing. It may be less costly. Or you are living in some room; oh, I am also living in some room. So what is the difference between you and me? Renunciation. Suppose a mendicant becomes . . . he has renounced everything. In India you'll find, simply a loincloth he's wearing, even naked body. Sometimes, they are naked.

So Rūpa Gosvāmī says that the monkey, monkey is completely naked, and he eats fruit. Markaṭa-vairāgya (CC Madhya 16.238). Markaṭa-vairāgya . . . mendicantism just like the monkey. He is . . . he is living in a jungle. Suppose a sage or saintly person goes to the jungle. So monkey is there in the jungle. Oh, he has renounced.

He has no clothing. He's naked. And he eats also only fruits. Just like the sages also eat only fruit. So these are not qualification, simply eating fruit or renouncing. The real qualification is that how much one is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, in the service of the Lord. That is the qualification. Otherwise, if I am in renounced, I am naked, I eat . . . only eat fruit, and I live in jungle, and I have got many lady monkeys with me, oh, what sort of renouncement that is? That is not . . . that is called "monkey renouncement."

So we don't want monkey renouncement, we want real renouncement. We don't use anything for my personal comfort, everything for Kṛṣṇa. That is called renouncement—not a single farthing for my personal comfort, but millions of dollars for Kṛṣṇa. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He is the only enjoyer. So this is called renouncement. Anyone who has renounced everything . . .

Therefore Lord Caitanya has recommended the renouncement of the gopīs as the highest renouncement. Gopīs. The gopīs in Vṛndāvana . . . when Kṛṣṇa was present, He was so attractive. Now, why? Because He was said . . . yesterday I explained that the God's one qualification is that He has all the beauty. Aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ (Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47). Śriyaḥ means beauty.

So when He was sixteen years old, so in village He had many friends, girlfriends, who were of the same age. But in India the girls are married earlier. In those days also, they were married at the age of twelve years, thirteen years. But Kṛṣṇa was only sixteen years. So . . . but He was playing flute. His playing flute was so nice that even at night, when He was playing flute, all those girls, they'll leave their husband and father and mother and everything; they'll come at once to Kṛṣṇa. So this is an example how they don't care for anything for (but) Kṛṣṇa.

So that is the life. Therefore . . . of course, that is not material association. That can be understood when one is a little advanced in the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the love between the gopīs and Kṛṣṇa. That is not ordinary thing. But anyway, that . . . they did not care anything. So that is renouncement. The father is asking, "Oh, where you are going?" The husband is asking, "Where you are going?" The Mother is . . . "No, Kṛṣṇa's flute is there."

So Lord Caitanya recommended, ramya kaścid upāsanā vraja-vadhu-varga-vīrya-kalpita (Caitanya-mañjusā); "There is no higher type of worship than it was done by the gopīs of the Lord." They were not very learned. They were ordinary village girls. They were not educated. They were not Vedāntists, philosophers. But they had the unlimited ecstasy and love for Kṛṣṇa.

That is required. That is called sannyāsa. Everything. We should, twenty-four hours, we should think in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, how we can advance the cause of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is renouncement. That is the first-class renouncement, how to engage people. The people are suffering. Lord Caitanya is worshiped by the same Rūpa Gosvāmī:

namo mahā-vadānyāya

kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te

kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa-caitanya-

nāmne gaura-tviṣe namaḥ

(CC Madhya 19.53)

They said, "Lord Caitanya, You are the most munificent person, personality, because You are distributing kṛṣṇa-prema, love of Kṛṣṇa, love of Kṛṣṇa, and this love of Kṛṣṇa, distribution of love of Kṛṣṇa by You, means that You are Kṛṣṇa Himself."

Because Kṛṣṇa, when He appeared, then He spoke Bhagavad-gītā and He said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66): "You give up all engagements; just become under My shelter. I give you protection," ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi, some people misunderstood. Even in Dr. Radhakrishnan's book, you'll find, he says: "Oh, not to Kṛṣṇa." You see? Even great scholars make mistake.

The clear indication is that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa says that, "Just surrender unto Me," and the scholar says: "Oh, this surrender is not to Kṛṣṇa." Just see. So the surrender to Kṛṣṇa and this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the highest perfectional stage of life. Highest perfectional stage of . . . one who has tasted it, oh, he cannot be, I mean to say, thinking of anything else. Nirdvandvo hi mahā-bāho, sukhaṁ bandhāt pramucyate (BG 5.3).

One who has attained such consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he becomes nirdvandva. Nirdvandva means he has no duality because he sees everything in Kṛṣṇa relationship. He sees everything. Actually, everything is the manifestation of Kṛṣṇa's energy. So highest stage, in the highest stage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the person sees everything in relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Nirdvandvo hi mahā-bāho sukhaṁ bandhāt pramucyate. And if we are fortunate enough to come to that stage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then very easily and very happily we'll become liberated from this entanglement of material life. Only we have to develop that stage of ecstasy and love for Kṛṣṇa. That's all.

sāṅkhya-yogau pṛthag bālāḥ

pravadanti na paṇḍitāḥ

ekam apy āsthitaḥ samyag

ubhayor vindate phalam

(BG 5.4)

Now Arjuna's question was that, "You are engaging me sometimes in karma-yoga and sometimes in sannyāsa. So what is the real thing that You want me to do?" So Kṛṣṇa replies here that sāṅkhya-yogau pṛthag bālāḥ pravadanti na paṇḍitāḥ. Sāṅkhya-yoga. Sāṅkhya-yoga . . . perhaps some of you or most of you know what is sāṅkhya-yoga, metaphysics, by Kapila, sāṅkhya-yoga. Sāṅkhya-yoga means analytical study of these material elements.

Now, what is the use of analytical study of this material world? Simply understanding that this material world is working in twenty-four elements. The eleven senses: ten senses, five working senses and five knowledge-acquiring senses, and the mind. Eleven. Eleven elements. And pañca-mahā-bhūta. Pañca-mahā-bhūta means the material elements just like earth, water, fire, air and ether. Eleven and five, it becomes sixteen.

Then subtle elements, just like manaḥ, buddhiḥ, ahaṅkāra: mind, intelligence and false ego. False ego. So sixteen and three. Nineteen. And five, I mean to say, sense objects. Sense objects means rūpa, form; rasa, taste; form, taste, rūpa, rasa, gandha, smell; then rūpa, rasa, gandha, śabda, sound, sound. You have got ear. You require sound to hear. In this way, the sāṅkhya-yoga, they have analyzed the whole material world into twenty-four elements. That is sāṅkhya-yoga.

Now suppose you study very analytically these twenty-four elements. And what is the idea of studying these elemental . . . analytical study of this material world? Because we have to find out what is the main principle which is working behind these twenty-four elements. What is the main principle? Now, suppose I have got these senses, and suppose there are material elements—earth, water, fire—all these things are there. But are they sufficient by themselves? No. They are not sufficient by themselves. Unless that spirit soul is there, so they are lying down.

Just take for example this land of America. It was lying, oh, vast land. Still you have got many lands vacant. So they are lying vacant. And so when the Europeans they came here, they gradually developed. Now they’re nice. So simply these material elements has no value. Unless there is spiritual touch, there is no value.

So study of . . . analytical study of this material world, they are not sufficient by themselves. You have to find out the spiritual power behind it. So sannyāsa means, generally, the sannyāsa, those who have taken up the renounced order of life, they search after the Supreme Truth and make an analytical study of this material world. That is called sāṅkhya-yoga.

Kṛṣṇa says, sāṅkhya-yoga . . . sāṅkhya and yoga. And yoga means direct connection with the Lord. Direct connection with the Lord. Just like in the darkness. In dark, in the darkness, you cannot see anything. Suppose your room is closed and dark. You cannot see anything. But when you come to the light, you come to the sunlight, then you can see yourself and everything very nicely. So yoga, this word yoga, means to come in direct touch with the absolute light or Absolute Truth. That is called yoga.

So by analytical, analytical study of this material world, that is not sufficient. Unless you come in direct touch with the Supreme Absolute Truth, this knowledge has no value. This knowledge has no value. If you want, you can study anything, any straw in the street. You can make a very analytical study of the straw. But that sort of knowledge has no value unless you come to the point of our spiritual existence.

So sāṅkh . . . so Kṛṣṇa says . . . the idea of sāṅkhya-yoga, analytical study of this material world, means you have to find out the spiritual existence. And that spiritual existence you can have when you directly come to the spiritual life. So direct process is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa is just like the sun.

Kṛṣṇa—sūrya-sama, māyā haya andhakāra

yāhāṅ kṛṣṇa tāhāṅ nāhi māyāra adhikāra

(CC Madhya 22.31).

The idea is just like the sun. In the sun there is no darkness. You cannot conceive any darkness in the sun. Similarly Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is just like the sun. If you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, if you come in touch with Kṛṣṇa, then there is no possibility of ignorance. There is no possibility of ignorance. You will learn everything. As we have repeatedly said that Kṛṣṇa says, teṣām . . .

teṣām evānukampārtham

aham ajñāna-jaṁ tamaḥ

nāśayāmy ātma-bhāva-stho

jñāna-dīpena bhāsvatā

(BG 10.1)

Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa is within yourself. Kṛṣṇa is without and within. So without, we cannot see, but within, we can see, provided we are little advanced in the understanding that there is Supersoul, presentation of Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa says that teṣām eva anukampārtham.

Those who are actually seeking after becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious . . . within yourself, He sees, "Oh, here is a person now who is anxious." So He gives you intelligence. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam: "I give him intelligence how he can approach Me, how he can excel himself by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness." The help will come from within. And so far ignorance is concerned, that will be vanquished within no time.

Teṣām eva aham anukampārtham: "for special favor." Kṛṣṇa has got special favor for persons who are trying to be Kṛṣṇa conscious. He's God. He's God. He's equal to everyone. That you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā. Samo 'haṁ sarva-bhūteṣu na me dveṣyo 'sti na priyaḥ (BG 9.29).

Just like a rich man. A rich man, he has got many, many, many thousands of people to maintain. Suppose he has got workshop, many, many thousands of workers. So he's looking after the interest of everyone. That's all right. But those who are his personal sons and dependents, oh, he has got special favor for them.

Similarly, Kṛṣṇa, although He is equal to everyone, still, those who are especially trying to be connected with Him . . . because the whole thing is, whole material manifestation, is meant for giving us a chance to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. So one who is trying to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, He has got special favor.

(aside) I'll answer later on.

He has got special favor. So sāṅkhya-yogau pṛthag bālāḥ pravadanti na paṇḍitāḥ (BG 5.4).

So any, any type of spiritual realization, they are different forms. "You are . . . you are Hindu? Oh, I am, I am Christian." "Oh, you are Christian? I am Muhammadan." So these conception that, "I am different from you," that is not for the learned. The learned one is hankering after the Supreme Truth. Never mind, either you go through Bible, or go through Bhagavad-gītā, or go through this Koran, that doesn't matter. What is the aim of your life?

If your aim of life is to understand the Absolute Truth, then there is no difference. But if your aim is something else, then you'll find some difference from Bhagavad-gītā to Bible, Bible to Koran, Koran to something else. So Kṛṣṇa says that sāṅkhya-yoga. Either you take sāṅkhya-yoga or sāṅkhya or this karma-yoga, anything, there is no difference. Because the . . . everything is trying to give you the ultimate Absolute Truth.

So if you have caught up such Absolute Truth, then there you'll find no difference. Paṇḍitāḥ. Paṇḍitāḥ means learned. They do not find. But the . . . those who are not learned, they find difference. Ekam apy āsthitaḥ samyag ubhayor vindate phalam. Those who are learned, he can be situated in any form of realization and he can realize soul or . . . it is not . . . never a learned man will say that "In this process, there is no self-realization. In this process there is spiritual . . ." No. In every process, there is. It may be in a higher standard or in a lower standard.

Just like I have many times (said) that two plus two equal to four, that is fact; that is a mathematical truth. Now, this two plus two, in the infant class, the two plus two equal to four is the same, and higher mathematics and in the M.A. class, the student is studying higher mathematics, astronomy, astrology, there also, the two plus two equal to four is the truth. But the infant class, the study of mathematics in the infant class and the study of mathematics in the M.A. class, there is difference. There is difference. There is a . . . there is a story that a student . . .

(aside) Why it is not open? It is not open?

Young man: It is open . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: All right. People may come in. One student, he was studying trigonometry. After passing his matriculation, in the college he was studying. So he was reading, "Let A and B, a straight line, and C, another straight line." So just like he was reading. So his mother thought, "Oh, my son has again begun A-B-C." You see? So he was asking . . . she was asking his (her) son, "Oh, my dear son, you have passed your school ending examination, you have again begun A-B-C-D? What is that?" That means she, she's not so intelligent. She thought that "My son has begun again A-B-C-D from the infant class." No. It is higher mathematics. The same A-B-C-D is there, but that is higher mathematics.

Similarly, the Truth, Absolute Truth, is always the same. But that Absolute Truth is expressed according to the different situation. The position of certain scripture in certain country in certain circumstances may be described in a certain particular way, but the aim is the same. Aim is the same. So those who are interested in higher mathematics, they take to higher mathematics. Or those who have developed themselves from infant class. But the truth, "two plus two equal to four," that does not any circumsta . . . become false. That is the truth.

So ekam apy āsthitaḥ samyag. If one is intelligent enough, if he is really learned, so he can be situated in any place, and if he follows . . . just this morning we were reading, yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya (BG 16.23).

If he follows the rules and regulations and, uh, then it is sure that he will come to that stage. But you should not be rigid. Suppose I have come to certain stage, "Oh, therefore I'll take it as final." No. There is no improvement. You have to seek out if there is more and more knowledge beyond this. Just like the higher mathematics and mathematics in the infant class. Yat sāṅkhyaiḥ prāpyate sthānaṁ, tad yogair api gamyate (BG 5.5).

Now, Kṛṣṇa is stressing that the ultimate goal of life which you can achieve by analytical study and metaphysics and philosophy, the same place you can also reach by direct Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not that you have to wait. This is the direct means. It is specially suitable for this age. How many people, they are fit for studying philosophy? Very few. It requires very learned knowledge to understand philosophical truth.

Therefore Lord Caitanya is . . . He said, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā (CC Ādi 17.21); "In this age, there is no other way, no other way, no other way than this particular way of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare." "No other way, no other way, no other way" means, according to Vedic system, there are different types of spiritual realization in different ages.

Just like in the . . . kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇum. Kṛte means in the Satya-yuga, when people used to live for millions of years. At that time it is recommended that they should take to meditation for self-realization. Then in the next age . . . kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ (SB 12.3.52). And the next age it is recommended that they should sacrifice. They should perform costly sacrifice. But that is not possible also.

And in the Dvāpara-yuga, dvāpare paricaryāyām. The temple worship was introduced in the Dvāpara-yuga. Kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt. And in the, this age, it is called Kali-yuga, the age of quarrel and fight, in this age the only means is hari-kīrtana. If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, so all enemies and friends, and learned and fools, rich and poor, man, woman, black, white, yellow, oh, everyone can take part. There is no distinction. There is no distinction, and you derive the same profit. That is recommended.

So here also, Kṛṣṇa says, ekaṁ sāṅkhyaṁ ca yogaṁ ca yaḥ paśyati sa paśyati (BG 5.5). So therefore we have to accept the favorable circumstances. In this age, in this difficult age, if we find the same result by being Kṛṣṇa conscious and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, then I . . . we should take advantage of it. Why should we stick to certain other principles? That is also good. That's all right. But this is favorable in the present circumstances. That is the point.

sannyāsas tu mahā-bāho

duḥkham āptum ayogataḥ

yoga-yukto munir brahma

na cireṇādhigacchati

(BG 5.6)

Sannyāsa . . . suppose if you simply renounce the world for your certain difficulty: "The worldly life, household life, is very difficult to maintain. Now let, let me become a sannyāsī. I'll go door to door and beg and I'll have . . ."

Guest (1): Excuse me, sir . . .

Prabhupāda: No. You cannot disturb just now.

Guest (2): Now wait a minute, man . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, not just now. No, no, no. You cannot ask just now.

Guest (1): I'm trying to . . .

Prabhupāda: No. Just now you can ask.

Guest (2): Wait a minute, man. Wait.

Prabhupāda: Why you interfere just now? We have got question time.

Guest (3): Let the man finish.

Guest (1): I just have one question, please. How long is an individual allowed to go on with soul? What if he's going towards the . . . (indistinct) . . . without any type of thought? Why? How long?

Prabhupāda: I'm not finished. We, we'll give question time after finishing all this.

Guest (1): Well, I am here to learn.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): (indistinct) . . . I'm serious. How long . . .

Prabhupāda: All right. I'm very glad that you are serious, but please wait. Have some patience. Because we have not finished. As soon as we finish now, after five minutes, ten minutes, I shall attend to your questions. Don't be impatient. Sit down. So Kṛṣṇa says that:

sannyāsas tu mahā-bāho

duḥkham āptum ayogataḥ

yoga-yukto munir brahma

na cireṇādhigacchati

(BG 5.6)

Sannyāsa, simply by renouncing this world, if you do not find out the Absolute Truth, then it is simply accepting tribulation voluntarily. Because suppose I give up my family life. Anyone is comfortable at family life, but suppose he leaves such family life and takes this life of mendicant—it is not very comfortable. But why shall I accept this position if I have no idea of the Absolute Truth? That is it. So sannyāsas tu mahā-bāho duḥkham āptum. So if you don't find the Absolute Truth, then it is simply meant for accepting miseries. Miseries.

And yoga-yukto munir brahma na cireṇādhigacchati. But one who is dovetailed with Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even he is at home . . . it was particularly said to Arjuna that "You are thinking that you are . . . you'll not fight. Better you are thinking that you shall beg instead of killing your kinsmen. You do not want kingdom. But that is not a practical proposition. You, you, you just try to understand why you have to fight, what is the cause." That means He was giving hint that, "You'll have to fight for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then you'll get happiness. Simply by leaving, simply by becoming mendicant, it will not help you."

yoga-yukto viśuddhātmā

vijitātmā jitendriyaḥ

sarva-bhūtātma-bhūtātmā

kurvann api na lipyate

(BG 5.7)

All right. We shall . . . this gentleman is impatient. We shall stop here. You see. Now, what is your question, kindly, sir?

Guest (1): (indistinct) . . . "I think, therefore I am."

Prabhupāda: What is your particular question?

Guest (1): I have no answer to that question. What does it matter? Rather, but every attempt that . . . (indistinct) . . . I can hear. I live, I breathe.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): But who has been able to tell me yet why I feel? . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That's all right?

Guest (1): I have difficulty in your . . . I have difficulty in saying, in expressing . . .

Prabhupāda: Now, so long you are in this material world, there are many problems.

Guest (1): Not many problems. It is a . . . not many problems . . . (indistinct) . . . this is the greatest fact. I have . . . I know the sort of world in which I live.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): I also know that Taoism and Hinduism, Islam, Judaism attempted to explain the whys and wherefores of my particular . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): I didn't come here expressly to . . . let me explain my position. This isn't really necessary. I feel I must . . . I think the existence is to learn. I live around the corner. I have walked by here numerable times (indistinct). By the same token . . . (indistinct) . . . for a long time to try to find out why.

Prabhupāda: Raymond, you can . . . you can answer his question. It is general question. You can answer. Yes.

Guest: (makes indistinct comments and questions, with Raymond quoting Bhagavad-gītā to try to answer) (end)